Woke Comics vs Based Manga? - The TRUTH
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2023
- I wanted to throw my piece into this "Woke Comics and Based Manga/Anime" debate. I think people really do miss the point, losing sight of the real problem behind the whole of this discussion because of whatever BS is happening on Twitter.
Let me know what you guys think in the comments, lets be civil and let this video stand as a beacon for free speech and open communication!
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It's just funny that back in the 90s, when I was part of a indy comics studio, some of my fellow artists criticized me for reading manga almost exclusively, and thougfht I should be reading more of Rob Liefeld's trash work (that ripped off from the same manga I was already reading. Yeah, I SAID IT!).
And now look where we are!
my problem comes when people label characters as woke or just diversity points but never go further into why they don't like the character. great example is how all the reasons people hate Moon Girl aka Lunella Lafayette are always so due to her them assuming there is nothing to her besides being a smart black girl or them being mad at Marvel's marketing her as the smartest there is.
I tend to agree with you, hence why I refuse to make assumptions about characters from comics I haven't read, and why I subsequently came down pretty hard on Iron Heart considering I did read that and found it very lacking
@@SoGoodContent I have no problems with disliking something if you experienced it yourself but way too many people just gladly accept the opinions of people that haven't even read the comic themselves and some may wonder how I can tell they don't read it? well if they constantly say modern comics doesn't do things like draw feminine sexy women then they are lying because I can literally type into google and find an x-men cover with a feminine sexy storm on it from 2022.
@@richadoruisuthegod3674Please learn punctuation.
It is, it's genuinely lazy
Both are goated ngl
So true! Readers relate to characters not because of "just" representation but because of their 'characters'. It's so simple modern western writers don't get it.
plenty modern western writers get this
@@richadoruisuthegod3674 Plenty? That tiny amount is plenty to you?
@@SparkShadow212 yes I say plenty because I actually am reading alot of omics every week or month
@@richadoruisuthegod3674 If you read indies, then yeah, you got me there.
@@SparkShadow212 yes I read alot of comics from other publishers besides DC & Marvel but I sitll say quite a few of modern writers from dc or marvel still understand how to write representation.
I see the decline of Marvel and DC as the (well deserved) legacy of their exploitative 'work-for-hire' agreements. After Tim Burton's "Batman" made hundreds of millions of dollars back in 1989, what creator in their right mind would want to hand over their IP in the age of superhero movie blockbusters? So, the Big 2 have been left reinventing the same characters over and over again.
One of the other important facts regarding manga is that it counts as a book which gives it access to Amazon distribution, but can also stay in print forever. I don't think the English-language 'One Piece' Vol 1 has gone out of print since it released back in 2003.
What do you mean by "stay in print forever" I've never heard about that
Well usually I don't do this but since you either honestly dont know or at least dont explain it thoroughly to me is because those two graphs are for different things. One is for ALL comic sales just divided up by format the other is for comic sales share IN COMIC STORES. At least going by the title of the graphs
I'm gonna give my take on this video coming from a frequent comic reader, I don't believe that the comics industry is going through a massive "woke" uprising as the medium was always known for its explicit political opinions, with the origin of comics starting as a satire of politicians and yellow journalism during the platinum age. The superhero genre is also no different, with several comic creators sharing some form of social view throughout history. For example, Chris Claremont wrote the famous X-men storyline "God Loves Man Kills" as a criticism against televangelists who fearmongered those who were different. He wasn't subtle with his message or dialogue either, with the character of Kitty Pryde using hard slurs to prove her point about the hypocrisy of people with racist beliefs. The situation is that the political landscape has shifted towards contemporary issues as any art form does. Plus, most comics these days are not inherently politically charged, they may feature lgbt themes and minority groups, but the existence of these demographics does not automatically mean the story is political and there still exists a plethora of pure dumb fun comics around. A good chunk of the big Marvel and DC titles being published at the moment are still standard cape stories with many people with years of experience under their belt such as Jonathan Hickman, Al Ewing, and Benjamin Percy. Whether or not you like these authors is based on preference but it's clear the Big Two are still scouting for talent who can bring new ideas to the table. Most people who aren't hyper-fixated on false outrage on how the comic medium is dying for its inclusion of diverse thematics are well aware that inclusion does not mean quality on its own and stories with good intentions can still fail to deliver a good story. I do believe we need to make more civil discussion towards the "wokeness" of comic books as far too often, we see people bicker with virtually no meaningful discussion getting made.
This is a amazing video, you nail every snigle point. And I agree if readers hated diversity for the sake of diversity than comics like Isom would'nt be as popular as they are. Which showcase that readers just want a well written comic.
Glad someone brought Isom up!
Too bad isom isn't a well written comic. the only reason People bought it is because they're favorite RUclipsr made it the comic itself is dog shit
@@thenightmonkey5932 Dog shit ?? Yeah tell me your hater with telling me you're a hater 💯😂
@@thenightmonkey5932 I dont have much of a opinion on it myself because I havent read it BUT I can appreciate the candid honesty. I write comics myself, Id love to hear what you think of them, harsh criticism or no, any opinions help
Thank you for saying that one key point, people just love characters. Ppl (most of the time) will love them just because they are well written. I hate pandering and woke stuff because they focus more on political identity than cool stuff. I've heard ppl say I don't love black characters (despite being black myself 😂) because I thought race swaps don't make characters interesting, or that I hate gay characters despite two of my favorite characters in One Piece being as queer as it gets (Ivankov & Bon Clay). Ppl genuinely just want good stories, worlds, and characters in whatever form they come in
Every time I hear people say Marvel and DC lash out at their critics calling them bigots, it's always like isolated articles of some guy saying something stupid. Like I've seen it 5 times in my life and now all of a sudden it's seen as everywhere in the industry. I get heated over this because it makes me feel I can never ever criticize fans ever because they are the backbone of your art. I don't wanna walk on eggshells, I wanna speak out against asshole fans. And here's a good saying I think nobody thinks about; "If it doesn't apply, let it fly". I think you not wanting to watch Star Wars because some out of touch guy who has a job at Star Wars calls Star Wars fans racist is a you problem. I get you don't want to feel like you're walking on eggshells when getting into something, but you can still watch it regardless of what the creators think, and who knows? You just might interpret their art in a way that they did not intend.
By the way, I loved how you actually criticized Iron Heart and you weren't an angry grifter using buzzwords. It sounds like that story had the same issue as old comics in general that have no substance but is just an excuse for action. Which by the way,, sometimes I think style over substance stories are good because the style can become the substance, but that comic doesn't look like it's got style, you know?
Comics aren’t dying manga is just growing. Politics in comics isn’t bad cause politics they just aren’t integrated well (obviously not all comics)
Bingo, this comic brilliantly summarizes a HUGE portion of this video lol
So thats why comic shops are closing at record rates and DC is on it's last legs, with sales been proped up by varient cover speculation.
@@newhope33comic book SHOPS dying doesn’t mean sales for the books are falling. Most people order comics online. I mean yeah there are bad comics I think now a days it’s politics over story but a shop going all manga probably has the same % of closing.
@@derrickjohnson4952 That must be why DC sales fell another 25% last year LOL.
So you can manipulate the sales figures to be deceiving.
I kinda knew that whenever I hear the ripper verse guy talking
l also think you shouldn't judge fictional character, if you haven't judged a significant person in your race.
its simple tell good stories
There are so many great comics. I have such a hard time keeping my pull list down.
I do hate the events because events are usually plot driven instead of character driven. So I do try to avoid the events. But there are still so many great comics coming out each month that I cannot possibly read even a fraction of them.
So to answer the question why do comics feel like they're dying
They don't. They feel vibrantly alive.
Woke?
I've been reading woke comics since the nineteen sixties.
We didn't have non woke comics until recently.
What about you, is that how you feel about art history? Do you only want visual development in art? The characteristics are characteristics we've see over and over, to the point even you can request trauma and struggle to a T. l only drink to celebrate, and l tell myself, l'm breaking myself down to climb again. lt's stupid but l need a kind of snag or node. But in real life project premises are really ground up. But it's not the same in stories. Stories should reflect the world's state, and be observations of it's direction, good vs evil.
l think stories are chaotic because some writers do that, but it isn't a set rule. There are discourses on other platforms which influences authors, but within the art industry, there is no rule, it's preference, or something like that.
Every time a character doesn't go through stuff, there are a couple of reasons. The artist wants to irritate you, the artist is fed up with redundancy, or the story is one they want to write in consideration of where they want readers to be, but the art industry has no rule readers know and follow, the artist subscribes to.
l think it's all the readers fault. l think people don't even progress in life because there don't have a record of what they have actually done this year and the year before. l've seen people compromise themselves because they want to make a noticeable leap, knowing it is wrong and misery loves company. lf you wa
no ones buying comics.
"Just one year later in 2021, comic books generated a total of $2.075 billion in America, with manga making up $1.47 billion of that total. This means that Japanese manga is not only more profitable in Japan, but even in America they are selling better than American comics."
Is quote not true?
Splendid
Enlightening!
Manga is made for people enjoy, Comics are made for preach people, That is the difference
The only comic that I consider woke would be the boondocks. The rest are wanna be woke.
Interesting pov, I think i know what you mean!
@@SoGoodContentthis is purely assumptions, but I'm guessing that by that is that the boondocks digs deeper into these issues and topics and how they would effect the average person rather than just skimming the surface level and wanting a trophy.
Tldr
The difference is whether it feels real and relatable.
So good
Those cg dudes are just grifters getting outrage dollars from smooth brained followers
raspberry
You should read more of Marvel's comics, instead of generalizing them based on a single comic. They are really good.
The reason you think they're comics are dying (even though they're not even close, like you said in the video) is because you're limiting yourself by only reading Marvel or DC (even though their comics are good), when other companies are putting out more varied and experimental stuff. That would be like ONLY sticking to Shounen manga.
Ive read ALOT of marvel comics tbh, some are spectacular and some are just plain boring and poorly written. My point is I try NOT to judge comics I havent read myself because who cares what someone who hasnt actually read a comic thinks about it.
@@SoGoodContent ... That's why I said you should try comics that are not just from Marvel or DC.
Good those comics are fine guys videos are pathetic.
Woke need to be illegal
nice job completely missing the point of the video