I'm a little shocked. Follett is an author of spy thrillers, mostly well known in England, but Pillars was his biggest seller. It got made into a mini series with Rufus Sewell, Eddie Redmayne, and Ian McShane
I didn't know how popular it was in English markets, but this board game is from a German company (Kosmos) and the video game was from a German company (Daedalic). So I concluded it was probably pretty well-known in Germany at least!
Great review. I have made flybys of this game for years...this video has made strongly consider picking it up. But even better than the review was your eloquent thesis: In Defense of Luck! Very well said!!!
Dude, your videos are awesome! Through your channel I have discovered a lot of amazing games that have been forgotten or shadowed but the cult of the new. Is great to see how games have evolved. I have a copy of Pillars of the Earth that I still yet to play. Nice rule explanation, now I am even more intrigued to play it, despite not having the expansion.
The intro for this one was brilliant man. Really enjoyed the insight. I’m such a nerd with board game history too and the whole time I’m like man if we ever run into each other at a convention we’re going to geek out for hours on board game history 😅😂🙌
As always great knowledge and explaining of the game and history and where it stands in the hobby! Great stuff! I lucked out about a month ago finding the expansion brand new in shrink locally for $15 Canadian on Kijiji maybe my best find yet! Great game with the expansion!!!
Big box editions are relatively popular, combining base and expansion content as a new printing option. I wonder if they've considered that for Pillars.
I played this at 2p for the first time last year, and I can definitely see the potential for it to be even better with more. Really neat game, I just wish I could get my hands on the expansion now :) I think it's a great game for people who are fans of worker placement, like me, just to see how it's implemented here.
Excellent discussion of a game I knew little about. I especially enjoyed the part about the BGG feedback loop on player count. I see the same happening with Knizia's Mille Fiori, which I have been teaching and playing a lot (four times at a gaming retreat this past weekend in Oregon!): vocal BGGers are saying only 4 player, but I see different strategies (different approaches) at 2 and 3 (even without the posted variants). Oh well - the herd!
Glad you enjoyed that part, as I wasn't sure I phrased it well! (It isn't really a loop, for example...) For anyone who wants a longer (and maybe better) explanation of what I was trying to get at: 1. Early players who are convinced "more brutal = better game" state in BGG polls that they'd recommend the game most at its highest player count. Indeed, this game is most challenging at 4p, but players are also more susceptible to swings of luck. 2. Later players interested in the game want to try it, and for a single play they obviously want to see the game at its best, so they play with the most players as per the BGG polls. 3. The swings of luck make for a poor experience for some players at that player count, so they decide they don't like the game, or it's even a bad game, due to the swings of luck. They do not bother to try it at other player counts, so the BGG polls stay at "more players = best", and those early impressions never get corrected. I will go on record as saying it is best at 3p, no question in my mind.
I remember that this one of the first games I took interest back when I started in 2011. I ended up getting Agricola, which was all the rage at the time, and it was the first modern board game I played. I still enjoy Agricola, but not as much. Right after that I got Toyes, which is one of my faves to this day. Pillars fell to the wayside. Good memories. Edit: I heard the "bad kind of depth" to which you referred called "burden of knowledge", and I also don't like it.
I've been playing the games in backwards order. Played A Column Of Fire, then World Without End, and will be playing Pillars soon. I enjoyed WWE. It has a lot of interesting (and now classic) euro mechanisms in it. It's a game that looks punishing on the outside, due to things like having to pay certain things after every round and having to burn a card to use a card, but I found it much less punishing to play. We played 2 player, and it also went by fairly quickly, which was nice. I definitely recommend giving it a spin if you can find a copy. It's tricky to find, but I ended up getting finding it in a BGG auction.
I have this game, but I have not played it yet... There is something I dont understand and I think is preventing me from trying, it is the condition on the initial 3x cards that you also mentioned in your video. If you upgrade those initial cards you loose certain benefits. It looks weird in a game that is about upgrading your cards. Why do you think those conditions are there? Do you upgrade them nevertheless? Thanks-Great video as always!
Thanks! About the initial 3 craftsmen, you will want to upgrade those because their conversion ratio is poor. Ideally upgrade them to the same, but better, thing, so you don't lose that benefit. But mid-game you may want to focus a little and it can be worthwhile to lose a benefit you won't much use, which maybe is an interesting decision sometimes. But yeah, I don't know why they're there. The penalties are small and hard to remember and I don't think they make the game more fun.
Hi, I was looking at the aftermarket for the expansion and I came across the new craftsman mini expansion. I don’t think you’ve mentioned that in your video and I’m wondering if you have more information on it. I’m assuming it just changes the variety of the craftsman and nothing more. Which would be great for longevity. Also are they just the craftsman that were in the normal expansion just by themselves with no board?
Right, they just add a bit of variety, which certainly helps! In the big expansion (at least English, I don't know about German) I believe some of the added craftsmen are the same ones as these, so I didn't think to mention it since they were already in my copy of the expansion. If you can't find the expansion, these would definitely add variety, which is very welcome! Just know that if you eventually get the expansion that you'd be getting them a second time.
hmmm.... i have this + expansion... i had it given to me because i enjoyed the books. someone had it and unopened so it became mine.. i opened the base game just to read the rules but became too busy to play it. I have been wondering if i should sell it. every week some one asks be about it on BGG. i watch these vids and it just makes it harder to get rid of it. I think im a board game horder at times.
Great content. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on Pillars. I picked up a copy on Amazon for $20. Apparently , they're trying to get rid of it. We play exclusively at 2p , so we house rule the auction/bidding that forces you to pay $2 , to pass. It helps. We love this game and the throw back aesthetics. Perfect complexity for us.
I am very familiar with the game, but I admit to not being sure what you meant by the auction that forces you to pay $2. Do you mean that when all the master builders are drawn from the bag, the cost marker's still on $2? In the two-player game you just set the cost to $0 after all pawns have been drawn and placed/passed.
@@BoardGems We found that , during the auction/bidding when drawing master builders from the bag , we would both pass until the cost was 0. It seemed like a no brainer. So we house ruled the auction/bidding this way. If your master builder is drawn first , you have to pay $7 ( to place ) or pay $2 , to pass. If your master builder is drawn second , you have to pay $6 ( to place ) or $2 to pass and so on. We found that , in a 2p game , it's too tempting to pass until the marker reaches no cost , for both players. I hope I explained this clearly. Thank you again for your videos. I share many of your thoughts on modern board gaming. Great job!👍
I actually really liked these mid-2000s b-tier worker placement games, they always had these little wrinkles that made them something other than Caylus version 15. So while everyone was glomming on to Stone Age and Agricola (disclosure: I own Le Havre), the ones I added to my collection were games like Pillars, or A Castle For All Seasons. The only thing that disappointed me, after seeing it on the table first and then playing it later, was that I hoped the cathedral was done kind of mega build you would work towards, rather than being a fancy timer for the game. But that's okay, it's still a nice touch. You gotta have a cathedral or it's not Pillars of the Earth.
Yup! Another was Egizia, which technically game out in 2009 but I bet was in development before Agricola was released. Hans im Glück does a lot of development work with their games. Still remains a favourite, and one I will cover at some point. (Hoping to come across the new version so I can compare.)
Enjoyed the history lesson on worker placement games. Nice work on this video!
Played for the first time this evening (four players) . We all loved it. We watched this video before we played, it was a big help. Thanks!
What great timing! Glad I could help.
I'm a little shocked. Follett is an author of spy thrillers, mostly well known in England, but Pillars was his biggest seller. It got made into a mini series with Rufus Sewell, Eddie Redmayne, and Ian McShane
I didn't know how popular it was in English markets, but this board game is from a German company (Kosmos) and the video game was from a German company (Daedalic). So I concluded it was probably pretty well-known in Germany at least!
Great video! Thanks! Hoop see more!
Great review. I have made flybys of this game for years...this video has made strongly consider picking it up. But even better than the review was your eloquent thesis: In Defense of Luck! Very well said!!!
This your 2nd video I’ve watched and I’m hooked. Well talk sir
I played this one recently for the first time a month or so ago. It was so good!
Dude, your videos are awesome! Through your channel I have discovered a lot of amazing games that have been forgotten or shadowed but the cult of the new. Is great to see how games have evolved. I have a copy of Pillars of the Earth that I still yet to play. Nice rule explanation, now I am even more intrigued to play it, despite not having the expansion.
Thanks so much! Hope you enjoy the game!
The intro for this one was brilliant man. Really enjoyed the insight. I’m such a nerd with board game history too and the whole time I’m like man if we ever run into each other at a convention we’re going to geek out for hours on board game history 😅😂🙌
Ha, I don't do many conventions, but maybe we can geek out on Discord sometime! I'm often found on the OG Discord server.
As always great knowledge and explaining of the game and history and where it stands in the hobby! Great stuff! I lucked out about a month ago finding the expansion brand new in shrink locally for $15 Canadian on Kijiji maybe my best find yet! Great game with the expansion!!!
That is an amazing find!
Big box editions are relatively popular, combining base and expansion content as a new printing option. I wonder if they've considered that for Pillars.
I played this at 2p for the first time last year, and I can definitely see the potential for it to be even better with more. Really neat game, I just wish I could get my hands on the expansion now :) I think it's a great game for people who are fans of worker placement, like me, just to see how it's implemented here.
Excellent discussion of a game I knew little about. I especially enjoyed the part about the BGG feedback loop on player count. I see the same happening with Knizia's Mille Fiori, which I have been teaching and playing a lot (four times at a gaming retreat this past weekend in Oregon!): vocal BGGers are saying only 4 player, but I see different strategies (different approaches) at 2 and 3 (even without the posted variants). Oh well - the herd!
Glad you enjoyed that part, as I wasn't sure I phrased it well! (It isn't really a loop, for example...) For anyone who wants a longer (and maybe better) explanation of what I was trying to get at:
1. Early players who are convinced "more brutal = better game" state in BGG polls that they'd recommend the game most at its highest player count. Indeed, this game is most challenging at 4p, but players are also more susceptible to swings of luck.
2. Later players interested in the game want to try it, and for a single play they obviously want to see the game at its best, so they play with the most players as per the BGG polls.
3. The swings of luck make for a poor experience for some players at that player count, so they decide they don't like the game, or it's even a bad game, due to the swings of luck. They do not bother to try it at other player counts, so the BGG polls stay at "more players = best", and those early impressions never get corrected.
I will go on record as saying it is best at 3p, no question in my mind.
This is my #1 game. So lucky to have it and the expansion in my collection =)
I remember that this one of the first games I took interest back when I started in 2011. I ended up getting Agricola, which was all the rage at the time, and it was the first modern board game I played. I still enjoy Agricola, but not as much. Right after that I got Toyes, which is one of my faves to this day. Pillars fell to the wayside. Good memories.
Edit: I heard the "bad kind of depth" to which you referred called "burden of knowledge", and I also don't like it.
Would love to hear your thoughts about "World without end" as well. Great Video ❤
Thanks! It wasn't on my radar but I'll consider it if I come across a used copy. I've added it to my Requests & Suggestions list on BGG. Cheers!
I've been playing the games in backwards order. Played A Column Of Fire, then World Without End, and will be playing Pillars soon. I enjoyed WWE. It has a lot of interesting (and now classic) euro mechanisms in it. It's a game that looks punishing on the outside, due to things like having to pay certain things after every round and having to burn a card to use a card, but I found it much less punishing to play. We played 2 player, and it also went by fairly quickly, which was nice. I definitely recommend giving it a spin if you can find a copy. It's tricky to find, but I ended up getting finding it in a BGG auction.
I have this game, but I have not played it yet... There is something I dont understand and I think is preventing me from trying, it is the condition on the initial 3x cards that you also mentioned in your video. If you upgrade those initial cards you loose certain benefits. It looks weird in a game that is about upgrading your cards.
Why do you think those conditions are there? Do you upgrade them nevertheless?
Thanks-Great video as always!
Thanks! About the initial 3 craftsmen, you will want to upgrade those because their conversion ratio is poor. Ideally upgrade them to the same, but better, thing, so you don't lose that benefit. But mid-game you may want to focus a little and it can be worthwhile to lose a benefit you won't much use, which maybe is an interesting decision sometimes. But yeah, I don't know why they're there. The penalties are small and hard to remember and I don't think they make the game more fun.
Hi, I was looking at the aftermarket for the expansion and I came across the new craftsman mini expansion. I don’t think you’ve mentioned that in your video and I’m wondering if you have more information on it. I’m assuming it just changes the variety of the craftsman and nothing more. Which would be great for longevity. Also are they just the craftsman that were in the normal expansion just by themselves with no board?
Right, they just add a bit of variety, which certainly helps! In the big expansion (at least English, I don't know about German) I believe some of the added craftsmen are the same ones as these, so I didn't think to mention it since they were already in my copy of the expansion. If you can't find the expansion, these would definitely add variety, which is very welcome! Just know that if you eventually get the expansion that you'd be getting them a second time.
Thanks!
hmmm.... i have this + expansion... i had it given to me because i enjoyed the books. someone had it and unopened so it became mine.. i opened the base game just to read the rules but became too busy to play it. I have been wondering if i should sell it. every week some one asks be about it on BGG. i watch these vids and it just makes it harder to get rid of it. I think im a board game horder at times.
Great content. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on Pillars. I picked up a copy on Amazon for $20. Apparently , they're trying to get rid of it. We play exclusively at 2p , so we house rule the auction/bidding that forces you to pay $2 , to pass. It helps. We love this game and the throw back aesthetics. Perfect complexity for us.
I am very familiar with the game, but I admit to not being sure what you meant by the auction that forces you to pay $2. Do you mean that when all the master builders are drawn from the bag, the cost marker's still on $2? In the two-player game you just set the cost to $0 after all pawns have been drawn and placed/passed.
@@BoardGems We found that , during the auction/bidding when drawing master builders from the bag , we would both pass until the cost was 0. It seemed like a no brainer. So we house ruled the auction/bidding this way. If your master builder is drawn first , you have to pay $7 ( to place ) or pay $2 , to pass. If your master builder is drawn second , you have to pay $6 ( to place ) or $2 to pass and so on. We found that , in a 2p game , it's too tempting to pass until the marker reaches no cost , for both players. I hope I explained this clearly. Thank you again for your videos. I share many of your thoughts on modern board gaming. Great job!👍
Gotcha! Yeah, the cost difference between placing early vs passing is huge in a 2p game. Makes sense. Cheers!
I actually really liked these mid-2000s b-tier worker placement games, they always had these little wrinkles that made them something other than Caylus version 15. So while everyone was glomming on to Stone Age and Agricola (disclosure: I own Le Havre), the ones I added to my collection were games like Pillars, or A Castle For All Seasons.
The only thing that disappointed me, after seeing it on the table first and then playing it later, was that I hoped the cathedral was done kind of mega build you would work towards, rather than being a fancy timer for the game. But that's okay, it's still a nice touch. You gotta have a cathedral or it's not Pillars of the Earth.
Yup! Another was Egizia, which technically game out in 2009 but I bet was in development before Agricola was released. Hans im Glück does a lot of development work with their games. Still remains a favourite, and one I will cover at some point. (Hoping to come across the new version so I can compare.)
@@BoardGems I look forward to that. I've not heard of it and I'm curious.
Have you played A Castle For All Seasons?
I haven't. Would you recommend I cover it? If so, I'll add it to the request list on BoardGameGeek and keep an eye out for a used copy.
@@BoardGems eh. I like it. But what do I know.
@@BoardGems A Castle for All Seasons is definitely Board Gems worthy!
Niche channel i like it