Does Starmer Care About the Climate?
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- Опубликовано: 9 ноя 2024
- Michael Walker sat down with Dale Vince, Carla Denyer and Dominique Palmer at at Massive Attack's Act 1.5 Climate Accelerator to talk about Labour's climate pledges, new oil and gas licenses and whether Just Stop Oil helped or hindered the climate movement.
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I don't know why I should care what Dale Vince has to say about the environment when his concept of the best government for the environment was one with Thangam Debbonaire retaining her seat instead of Carla and her three Green colleages getting into government. A few extra seats in Labour's massive majority wouldn't have done anything for the environment they can't already do, but having four Green MPs means we do have a better chance to get people thinking about the climate
Extraordinary that Dale Vince absolutely ignores everything Carla says and just responds by parroting Labour misinformation. I've not seen anyone so on a promise of a lords seat in a long time.
Greens are the only party that is democratic and championing the change we need
Novara please can you interview Dominique Palmer about people power. We live at a time when so many people don’t feel empowered. It would be great to hear her thoughts on how we can be empowered.
This Dale bloke seems a bit long in the tooth to be this naive. I mean, if you're still giving Starmer the benefit of the doubt on literally anything at this point, I suggest you've been ignoring A LOT of other shit.
Giving Starmer the benefit of the doubt is a mistake in so many ways.
Yeah.
I gave Starmer an enormous amount of "benefit of the doubt" when he first became Labour leader, and then I saw his behaviour, like the ditching of the 28bn pledge, the participation in the Labour right's racism, the repellant treatment of Apsana Begum and 5 years of betrayal after betrayal.
And then getting into government and approving oil drilling, cutting winter fuel payment, doing the child credit cut, supporting Israel's "right" to use drought and starvation as weapons of war against civilians in Gaza whilst refusing to support a ceasefire (even kicking people out of the party for campaigning for one), need I go on?
Nah mate.
They've had their "benefit of the doubt", I think the bloody jury is in!
@@TheYopogo yes indeed. I didn’t vue for him to be leader but was prepared to listen to him. Nearly everything he had said since that time has pushed me further and further away.
@@juliewake4585 Yeah.
I actually got into several arguments with leftie friends where I defended Starmer, and wanted people to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And it took me quite a while and evidence to move away from him.
So anyone trying to say I should now "give him the benefit of the doubt" needs to realise how profoundly patronising that is, what a slap in the face that is, and how extremely unconvincing that argument is.
Dale Vince is eyeing up a nice slice of GB Energy
Carla Denyer is so cool 💚
I see Dale is still hoping for his future position in the house of lords.
The Green Party is growing in influence and its leading representatives are impressive. Radical politics is both socialist and Green. No climate justice without social justice. Eco-socialist solutions to capitalist crisis is needed no more than ever. Vote Green, join the Green Party.
The problem of using the "economic growth" argument is that you're relying on exactly the same logic and approach which causes climate change and environmental destruction in the first place.
Interesting panel discussion. The pylons issue raised a tension in the climate / green movement between decarbonisation and the biodiversity/ ecological crisis that wasn’t properly explored in the discussion. It would be good if Novara media covered the ecological crisis in more depth as the presenters are often pro-house building, pro-HS2 and have been dismissive of ecological concerns. The climate crisis and biodiversity crisis are equal existential threats yet climate and decarbonisation gets more attention.
They're not equal though. Firstly, the climate crisis is a leading cause of the biodiversity crisis and secondly, the climate crisis is already killing thousands. Yes, we need more focus on the biodiversity crisis and actually that can't happen when you have a political climate where even Labour is unwilling to tax and it's important that we do focus on these issues not least because pylons aren't nearly as robust either which means there's actually a real risk of them being a false economy but it's not a matter of is the biodiversity crisis continues as it's going that's equivalent to if the climate crisis continues as it's going, the former is a serious permanent negative change to the fibres of our planet but the later is us beating it to death with a stick now that we've already got it unconscious.
@@oliverdowning1543 it seems to me that both are ouputs of overshoot as people work to maximise their own personal optionality at the expense of the commons. Neither are causes. They are simply a response to the unhealthy relationships we have with the commons and each other. Looking at any single measure in isolation will be of limited benefit towards solving a systemic problem.
To tackle overshoot outputs (and the problems they cause) we need to look at the whole system and tackle the root causes with a shift in our underlying goals and incentives. We need to stop seeing ourselves as separate from each other and our environment.
Our separation from the world and each other seems irrational. It seems self evident that one cannot exist without the other, like north and south and up and down. When we can collectively get our heads around this fact, we can find a way to navigate our path through.
If we continue to buy into the born alone; die alone bollocks, we may never make it.
Pushing beef consumption is certainly lowering the bar too.
Cause poor health and mono cropping the planet is the way forward. Regenerative animal agriculture has been shown to improve soil health, be carbon sequestering (not that carbon is necessarily a bad thing) and increase yield per acre. Not to mention you get the most nutritious food from animals. You keep on chewing down the propaganda like a piece of tofu though 😂
@@ole1111While regenerative agriculture offers some benefits, it does not fully live up to the promise of significantly reducing our food system's impact on climate change or adequately sequestering carbon, especially as it pertains to cattle grazing and large-scale animal farming. Moreover, the most nutrient-dense foods can actually come from plants, not animals, providing essential vitamins and minerals with a lower environmental footprint.
This Dale Vince guy seems like he's been put here to be an apologist for the Labour government, I don't agree with most of the points he is making.
Just so you know the 1.5c limit is impossible to hit now. We will hit it by 2028.
We have already hit it last year...
Wasn't it already adjusted from the 1700s to the 1800s anyway? Also the govt targets are based on a 10yr running average and does the average need to be 10yrs? I don't think so.
Bet you're fun at parties.
First, the 1.5c goal is not a we hit it once and we've failed dealy. The objective is to prevent a scenario where we hit 1.5c warmer temperatures than pre-industrial every year. That's not happened yet and its not projected by the ipcc to happen this decade.
Second, I think that the defeatist discourse on if we hit the 1.5 mark deeply unhelpful, because it stops people from trying. Hitting 1.5c would be very bad, but 2, 2.5 and 3 etc on the climate impacts scale are exponentially worse. Even if we reach a scenario where 1.5c becomes inevitable, preventing 2 degrees is still something we need to fight for.
And coming out and saying either is hopeless is not going to get people making the choices and campaigning for the changes we need.
@@somerandomguy___ last year it went over on a day or a couple of occasions, but the 1.5C rise referred to is averaged out across time
@@evildude951 You are wrong. I am right. We will be above 1.5c in the next 3 years, forever. This is what the most current data shows. This isn't a debate it's science
Starmer only cares about himself. He will simply bend with the wind, or allow whoever, to pull his strings. I hope I’m wrong.
Given his past I don’t think you are.
Growth doesn’t make ordinary people richer. The value of money is relative, not absolute. The wealth of ordinary people is being destroyed by growing wealth inequality, not by lack of growth. More growth without tackling inequality will make people poorer not richer
They must end the Gaza genocide?
Militarism/ warfare are not at all green.
So we have 3 comments from channels all joined 6 hours ago all with the same logo and all saying the same theme. Legitimate? Yeh right. Why bother?
And how is there no option to report bot account on YT? Almost like they’re happy to host all the bots 🤔
The Greens need eco-socialist real living working class MP's from poorer communities to grow their voter base ,
Love to you all alwyas
i think a coalition with a jeremy corbyn's new party would be better. if they coordinate with the greens to not stand in each other's seats where one has a higher chance of victory there etc. jeremy corbyn's new party i think has a better chance in working class muslim areas than the greens do, they should coordinate with each other
They need a likable populist with a "working class" accent.
As a former Green Party activist (2003-2014) and being working class, I can safely say the Green Party operates completely in the interests of the middle-class, and many of its members, especially in the upper echelons of the Green Party, think working class people are contemptible, as most do not buy into the doomsday cult nonsense that the end of the world is nigh, and that there is a "climate emergency". Rational environmentalism has been erased from the Green Party.
@@syruswise2379 mick lynch?
@@marcoroberts9462 Na, too much history. Someone like Gary Stevenson would be bang on.
Hmmm, mixed messages here I feel. I voted GREEN for the first time in my life (after a lifetime of voting Labour I simply couldn’t stomach a vote for Starmer based on what I’ve seen of him). Dale has obviously thrown his lot in with Labour and to a degree it’s understandable (after 14 years of Tory BS, he realises he can get “some” stuff done with Labour, I get it…
However Carla is right, she also understands that Labour will do “some” of what is required whilst bowing to established interests and for me she is correct to threaten holding them to account and forcing their hand. I feel the sniping from Dale, with his newfound Labour rosette on to be a little snide TBH, he should be drawing them together and not driving wedges between.
Seems Dale had provided funding to some Green campaigning in the election as well as the large scale support for Labour. It’s very confused from him I feel…. And yet so much of what he has to say on these issues is bang on the money.
Wow the bots already at it, YT is so done 😂😂
Most of my replies disappear as soon as I post them; it's beyond blatant now. How much of an idiot would you have to be in order to not realise what's actually going on?
Dale makes sense
The number one cause of environmental damage is economic growth & that is Starmer's number one priority. Retro fitting solar panels onto large buildings, leisure centres, shopping centres, office blocks & to existing homes & new build homes where possible; should take precedence over solar farms. 3rd world countries - especially - should be doing this to reduce their reliance on oil companies. Labour does not like this idea because it would drastically reduce the profit margins of the utility companies in Spring/Summer & Labour wants to protect the stakeholders of the utility companies interests.
Starmer has sold his soul for a space on the escape ship.
putting in road tax for EVs next year retrospectively but not for classic cars and free/low tax petrol and diesels is definitely not what the greenest government ever should do. Tax pollution is the way to go. Tax for private jets , short haul flights, dirty diesels.
Does Dale Vince think he is wearing a keffiyeh?
Go vegan 🐥✌️🐷
I have my criticisms of Dale, but I don't think Carla came off too well either, esp responding to the Pylon issue. She recited the procedural intricacies of the issue in what felt more like a way to obfuscate, instead of as a way to engage with the issue of "Building vs NIMBYism" head on. She framed it as an issue of decentralization and disinformation (which may be the case) but you still have to address the underlying anxiety/tension it exploits (also something that they should have seen coming in this situation). That's important if you want to lead a mass political party and want people to trust your ability to govern/lead/campaign.
I understand the decentralized nature of the policy making, but at some point there needs to be at least some rhetorical accountability/leadership, and rightly or wrongly, pointing to the decentralized party processes every time there is a divisive political issue will start getting stale very quick. This is only going to become more of an issue as the Greens gain MPs, and has the risk of turning every political issue in one of internal party politics/divisions.
I didn't really get any new insight from Dominique, but an activist should be advocating for the maximalist position, so that's understandable.
What the hell is Dale Vince doing there?
London City Airport? Try to get from the City of London to Zurich by train , there and back in a day??
Why are you going from London to Zurich in a day. Have you heard of video conferencing? Or is it just a perk of the job.
Yes, Starmer cares. That's why he's made sure pensioners don't produce any fuel emissions. 😂
Kier Starmer doesn't care enough?
No
One thing about this topic.. There’s no man made problem with one, while the other, we have got to clean up. Do not let them conflate the two together.
No man made element? So all the scientists are wrong?