Nordic Skating - Reduce Your Risk On Ice - Safety Gear and Tips
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- I shot this video to try to show beginner and experienced wild ice skaters the minimal proper gear and other safety related tips. Wild ice skating is inherently risky. The recommendations are made based on my personal experiences. You may have other approaches to reducing risk and increasing comfort on wild ice. Stay tuned for "mini-vids" I will post to further clarify and embellish on gear and technique. Meeting these recommendations does not imply total safety on wild ice and I can't accept responsibility for your personal safety. Be prepared with all the correct safety equipment and practice physically and mentally how to use it. I quote my good friend and ice colleague, Elizabeth Lee, “I listened very carefully to both the ice and my inner comfort level. I constantly checked my own decision-making because I didn’t want to passively put them in the position of leading me somewhere I didn’t feel comfortable. I could not have been more rewarded but remind everyone that skating is not something to do passively. Actively decide what you’re up for and come prepared for the distance and the ice you expect to skate.” Then, enjoy the adventure!
![Remble - Colors (ft. Mozzy & Stoneda5th) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KF-3AU9g9xg/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm from Sweden, and to us skating is a big thing - the skating club in Stockholm has more than nine thousand members. I'm skating more or less every weekend and we're always in pursuit of good ice.
I'm glad you've discovered the wonders of Nordic skating. I’m also glad that you pay serious attention to the safety matters of the sport, a lot of people don't. This is a very (very) good video.
You say a lot of sensible things in your video, but there are a few things we do differently in Scandinavia, which might be of interest to you.
I have fallen through the ice on a few occasions, let me share what I have learned by experience.
First of all: your backpack is the single most important safety item of all. You don't need a PFD, just a properly filled backpack (btw, yours is a particularly good one). And, as you already do, pack a complete change of clothing in waterproof bags. It is a good idea to pack the clothes in the same order you will put them on when you get out of the water. Turn your backpack upside down, place yourself on it, and start changing. When packing your backpack, avoid pressing out any air from the drybags and the backpack. It will be a very good floating device for quite some time if you allow some air in it. I have fallen through the ice and remained dry from my waist and upwards thanks to the buoyance in the backpack. However, and this is important, you need a strap from your backpack's belt, in between your legs and attached to the backpack behind you. This prevents the backpack from slipping upwards when you fall in the water, instead the backpack will lift you up in the water.
Secondly, the ice-prods (or the ice-claws, as you call them) should be worn higher up under your chin. When you fall through the ice, the water will make them flip up and smack your nose or batter your teeth. Hoist them up a bit and it might spare you an unnecessary visit to the dentist. Also, you don't want to dip your hands into the water to get to them if you can avoid it.
Thirdly, the throw rope should be attached on the outside of your backpack where you immediately can reach it with just one hand if anything happens. This goes for both helping a friend who's fallen into the water or throwing the rope to a friend on the ice when you've fallen into the water yourself. You should never rely on others to have equipment to help you. It is also a good idea to have a big snap-hook attached to your backpack's strap on your chest. The throwing rope has a loop. When you receive the rope, immediately hook on to the snap-hook before your hands get too cold and the fine motor ability fade away.
Fourthly, dry suits are normally not used among us. They just get too warm, and you won't stay in the water that long anyway.
... and a final additional clarifying note. You don't want anything on your front that will hinder you from getting out of that hole in the ice. Hence, the recommendation not to use a PDF, since they tend to get caught in the ice edge (in my world, using a self-inflating PFD should be regarded as a suicide attempt).
Yet again, thank you for a very good video. Keep on keeping on and happy skating.
Jan, Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I'm always hesitant to put out information on which people may rely to, in this case, possibly save their lives. Your comments are well taken and serve to hone and focus my video narrative. I plan on shooting several more videos soon on ice safety equipment and use and I will incorporate your comments to make mine better. Our ice in northern New York has not been good this year, but we are hopeful that it will turn better soon. I aspire to skate in Sweden some day. Hope to see you on the ice!
Jan, A few more comments. The pack I use does not have a crotch strap and I recognize that as a major flaw. Your comments have reminded me to add a crotch strap; an easy fix. We almost never skate alone and we expect those we skate with to have all the gear and know how to use it. Hence, in the case of the throw rope, we've kind of come to the conclusion that we are better served trying to get back to good ice while our fellow skaters above water are getting the rope ready. I've gone through twice and have seen two other plurrs and in all those cases it was not necessary to deploy the throw rope; everyone got out with ice prods/claws or just "swimming" themselves out. Yes, the dry suit is a bit warm. Some people generate more heat than others and for me it's quite comfortable. The first time I fell in I was not wearing the drysuit, but had a complete change of clothes. By the time I got out of the water and to a safe place I was almost unable to undress myself because of windchill. The clothes had frozen stiff and my hands were stiff. Others stripped me, got my dry clothes out and helped me get dressed. The second time I fell through was with a drysuit. I pulled myself out, laid on my back and drained my boots, got up and skated away. That's why I opt for the drysuit now, but it certainly is a personal preference. I no longer recommend self-inflating PFD's and will make that clear in my next video. As a matter of fact I may edit this video to put a note on that section saying such. Finally, another reason that I went to the drysuit was to eliminate the backpack and its weight and bulk. Because I don't have to carry a complete set of dry clothes I use a large fanny pack and carry only my lunch, drinks, first aid kit, toe and handwarmers, batteries, an inflatable sitting pad, and extra dry mitts and hat. I find it very freeing to have so little weight on my back. However, that means I use a PFD. Your comments about obstructions on the front are well taken. But, for me, the warmth, padding and floatation I get from the PFD is worth it. Again Jan, thank you so much for your thoughtful and constructive comments. I will definitely incorporate them.
@@wildiceskater Of course, you call it a crotch strap, I should have guessed. I apologise for my imperfect English; bear with me as it is a secondary language to me.
I’m glad that you read my comments as they were intended, just some reflections on your video. I never meant to be a know-it-all. You should, of course, only listen to the parts that makes sense to you 😊.
Clothing is of course a matter of personal preference. I tried skating with a dry suit once. Apparently, I generate a lot of heat whilst skating. After about an hour I was prepared to make a hole in the ice myself and plunge into the water just to cool off.
In Stockholm we’ve had incredibly good ice until a week ago, when a *#censored* snowfall spoiled it all.
Should you ever come to Stockholm, you are most likely to find me on the nearest lake, either on a pair of skates or in my kayak.
Btw, I just love the fact that you use the word “plurrs”. Do you say that in English or are you just using the Norse word?
@@janbjorkman3279 Your English is much better than my Swedish which is non-existent except for "plurrs". I think we picked up that word from scandinavian skating videos. I where very thin polypropylene longjohns under the drysuit so don't really heat up all that much although I am damp at the end of the day. Your comments were well said and welcome them as constructive criticism.
Hey thanks for the Video and thank you for the detailed comment! I can’t decide whether to get the nnn-binding or nnnbc-binding with zandstra tango skates. Which one do you prefer? What’s your Setup? Thank you so much, greetings from vienna :)
Thanks for posting this. Very informative! I've been thinking about getting into nordic skating and this is a good gear primer!
Proper prep, personal responsibility. Very informative, many things I did not realize, not as dangerous as I thought, Thanks
Great view of awesome gear. You inspire my love of skating. I would feed super safe in a drysuit.
Very Interesting. Thank you ,Be Safe.
Skated Silos Canyon ferry in Montana about this time last year. Ice was rough but for a first time it was fun. Met a nice lady that took me for short tour. Had safety gear on and homemade ice picks. Will be looking into some ice here in Washington state this year by staying closer to home.
This was my first year snowshoeing (solo usually) and I spent a lot of time exploring a local marsh and streams which are completely inaccessible the other 3 seasons. Never more than a mile from the car. However, I got surprised in early March when the snow gave way (between two mounds of solid earth) and found myself in two feet of water with a lot of muck on my snowshoes. Very slow getting out. I hadn't even known I was on water( which oddly did not feel very cold) Next year I will be a lot better prepared. Thanks for a great vid.
This kicks complete ass. Well-spoken, to the point, without pompous self-stroking behavior and some very thoughtful comments exchanged between yourself and Jan. Today is the first day I have heard of this sport, and it's been added to my life goals. Tusen takk!
Thanks for the comment Steven. I hope you get out next year and enjoy the ice. Nordic skating can be very addicting.
I don't even have a life which nears wild ice skating and I still feel wiser and more informed after watching this video.
After last years snowshoeing problems this year I built my own "spud bar" walking stick and it was a complete game changer being able to test the ice. Thanks for the inspiration.
Very cool Cris. Yeah, it’s very important to test for thickness and strength. Kind of makes the experience less nerve wracking.
Good info thanks
Thank you.
Thanks. Falling through the ice is scary..
Great post - I broke through ice on Lake Winnipesaukee last week and the ice claws saved my life. I did get hung up on the belt of my fanny pack so consider not belting or belting under your jacket. I had to do some "flipper moves" to get over the buckle.
Further down in the comments Jan Borkman indicated that a PFD could also get hung up on an ice edge as you tried to get out. Anything in front of you could impede your exit so you've just got to be careful. I'm glad you had a successful self-rescue. It would be informative to others to describe how you self-rescued either on FB or in one of the Nordic Skating google groups.
As a newbie to tour skating, but as an avid outdoorsman who has friends who are also outdoor enthusiasts, there are two points I want to make here, in regards to skating and sports in general.
1. It should be fun
2. It should be safe.
A Goretex drysuit for skating I think the idea is quite ridiculous. I am not a diver, but I know such suits are very expensive, and this eliminates most people from taking the plunge (if you will forgive the expression) into tour skating. I am one of them, I simply do not have the money to spend on such a suit. While this might keep you warm and dry, it is not at all practical. These are used in cold water diving and limit movement quite a lot, and are difficult to use according to people I have talked with. The thought of skating even a few kilometers in a dry suit is asking for maximum discomfort if you manage it at all. Also I have heard the difficulty level can be so high particularly with the inexperienced that the dry suit can work against you, and put you in danger.
Some of the skates I am interested in this year are in the 20-50km range, this just won't do.
Training videos (and actual training) where you plunge into the icy waters is survivable, and even enjoyable for some. I've done it, and feel comfortable that if I fall through the ice and get wet, that if I do not drown I will survive the experience.
Thanks for your comments. First, the drysuit I show is not used for diving. It is generally used for kayaking. Having skated hundreds of miles in this suit, as many as 40 miles in a day, I can say that this one, at least, is very comfortable. Yes, they are expensive, but amortized over the life of the suit, if taken care of, is quite reasonable. Your comments seem to be based on what you have heard, not what you have experienced. I can tell you that I have fallen through ice when the air temperature was 16 degrees fahrenheit while wearing this suit. I pulled myself out, laid on my back to empty my boots and kept skating. I can't think of any situation that a drysuit will put you in danger. Finally, there is no place in this video that I say that you must wear a drysuit. In fact, I describe other clothing that you could use. Wild ice skating is inherently risky. I tried to describe here some things you can do to reduce the risk to individually acceptable levels. I hope you have fun skating this year.
Hi! Thank you for a very informative video! I'm considering starting up with nordic skating here in Norway and luckily I already own a lot of the gear needed from kayaking and back country skiing. Just wanted to drop a fun fact - and you may already know this, but anyway Rottefella translates to Rat trap in English :) Stay safe!
I didn’t know that! Great name. Thanks and have fun skating.
Just stumbled upon your channel and glad I did. I’m a former elite hockey player who taught power skating. I grew up in Canada and in the last few years have worked with a world champion speed skater. We’re older now:)and he took me out on my first speed skate and it was unbelievable! Who’d have thought that I could still manage on that skinny blade with no rocker! The prospect of getting outside of a rink is intoxicating! I know I want to do it and appreciate your guide on how to start considering how to do it safely…
Welcome to the channel and to the world of wild ice skating. Are you still in Canada? If you're in the states I can suggest some groups that you can link up with to find good places and comrades to skate.
@@wildiceskater Do you have any recommendations for groups in Colorado?
I moved to an area with much ice, but no-one skating. As a long time wild skater who will be skating alone, I am indebted to you for making this presentation. I want to continue to pursue this sport in a serious manner.
John, I'm in northern NY state. If you're near we shall skate.
@@danielspada8030 For sure.
Very informative, thanks! The pack looks solid - could use that for canoeing day trips as well, who manufactures it?
Ortlieb. But they don't make this model any more. Check out Lundhags Gero 35.
@@wildiceskater Their stuff is great - but oh so hard to find in the US.
A complementary note on throwing-ropes
As our friend The Wild Ice Skater says in the video, the throwing-rope is a piece of equipment which is of paramount importance to safety on wild ice. However, try to choose a rope that will float and not soak up too much water. If you have fallen through the ice, you will most likely kick about in the water. With a sinking rope, your legs and feet can get entangled. Things can get awkward if a friend, unaware of the situation, starts pulling the rope to get you out of the hole. If it comes to the worst, your friend might even flip you upside-down. Furthermore, it is hard to keep up your dignity and composure whilst being hauled out of a hole with your feet first.
Also, on a bad day, the rope might be required more than once. A throwing-rope which soaks water can freeze into a useless tangled ice-ball.
Right on Jan! All of the commercial throw ropes I've seen have been polypropylene which floats and does not soak up water. Your caution, I suspect, is for folks who decide to make their own throw rope or just decide to bring out some rope with them. Yesterday I saw a guy on the ice with what looked like a big coil of manila hemp rope around his shoulders. Not a good Idea. Thanks. Also, my name is Dan Spada.
Hello Dan, nice to meet you.
You are absolutely right; my comment was intended for anyone tempted to use any random old rope from the garage. By the way, your bag for the rope looks identical to mine. Do we use the same supplier?
Now, something a bit off-topic. I would like to humbly propound the subjects for your upcoming videos. We know that safety on ice rests on three foundation stones: equipment, knowledge, and comradeship. This video is about the kit. Why don't you make two more, themed knowledge and comradeship? One video can be about assessing the quality of the ice and how to identify hazardous areas: outflows, straits, reeds, jetties, etc. The other video can be about how to act as a group on weak ice: not to close to each other, follow the leader, hand signs, using whistles, and so on. ...just a quick thought from the back of my head.
May the Gods always give you smooth ice under your skates.
@@janbjorkman3279 hey jan, I am planning to an ice skating trip to Sweden, after I had the chance to go ice skating on the old danube in vienna, but I have no proper Nordic ice skating equipment yet. Are there shops selling ice skates, bindings and boots (nnn) in stockholm you can recommend? Is it also possible to buy them used? In vienna there is absolutely no demand for such equipment, so it’s impossible to buy it here and online providers like Nordic skater are out of stock.. where would you buy equipment? thanks a lot
@@thomaslummerstorfer3249
Hello Thomas,
Yes, you can quite easily procure skating equipment in Stockholm. There are a few places where you can rent equipment during your stay in Sweden. You can, for example check out Stockholm Adventures (www.stockholmadventures.com/rentals/ice-skating/).
In your case, I wouldn't recommend you roam around on your own, but to stick to the lakes with prepared tracks. There are several of those where you can rent equipment on location. For example, check out Hellasgården (hellasgarden.se/en/aktiviteter/skridskor/#weglot_switcher).
If you have decided to buy equipment, I strongly recommend visiting Alewalds at Kungsgatan 32 in Stockholm. They have everything you need (and some stuff you don't need). Furthermore, they really know what they are talking about when it comes to Nordic Skating.
When it comes to choosing skates and bindings, let your boots decide. You, being an Austrian, are probably used to hikes. If you are planning skating excursions which involve several lakes and watercourses, I recommend strap bindings and fixed heel. In that way, you can use your regular hiking boots and still enjoy the thrills of skating. Furthermore, boots made for bindings with a loose heel has a metal pin typically in the front. That little rascal makes the boot unfit for longer walks in rough terrain since it can fall off, which means that you will be unable to attach the blade to your boot. I always carry a couple of extra straps in my backpack, just in case.
Otherwise, start by choosing the boots and go from there. Ill-fitting boots can ruin your entire day, no matter how fancy the rest of your equipment is.
...and on a final note. Don't go alone! Skating in the archipelago can be stunning but also extremely dangerous. Get a guide or join a group (compare it to freeskiing without any knowledge of neither mountains nor avalanches).
@@janbjorkman3279 thank you so much!! that’s very helpful. I wish you find nothing short of the best thin black ice possible during your skating trips ;) thank you.. I also found this resource
els.skridsko.net
it’s in Swedish, but with google translator still very helpful. Do you know them? anyways thank you for sharing your knowledge
Hi Dan - Thanks for the insight that you provide via this video. I had a question re the selection of boots. In my use case I am located on the west coast, near the Eastern Sierra. Access to reliable Wild Ice is mostly via a hike of anywhere from 1-4 miles in. I'd prefer not to have to use a dedicated pair of hiking boots for the walk-in and a separate NNN or NNN-BC boot while skating. In your opinion, would a NNN or NNN-BC boot hold up over a rugged hike in or am I better off looking at a strap on (Lundhag "Fleet") style of skate or ????
Brian, I just noticed this message from you and I thought I had responded. Please let me know. If I haven't responded, I will.
Great Video. I will be new to wild skating here in Montana. Can I use regular hockey skates? I'm having a challenge finding touring skates.
You can use any skates you have Margaret. The main point is to get out and have fun. If you're on FB there is a group called MT Icebuds. Check in with them for gear in that area as well as ice reports and skating linkups. Here is a link to a vendor of Nordic skates in case you are interested: nordicskater.com/ . Don't hesitate to call them with questions. They are very nice folks. If you are interested in Nordic's I would definitely recommend NNN-BC bindings and boots. Stable, warm, waterproof, supportive. Enjoy.
just started wild skating ...... only 4 times so far .... using hockey skates ... unfornately the colder is gets the more difficult to put them so I'm trying to find better options ... just attaching the blades looks awesome
@wild ice skater thanks great video
Hi, thank you for this excellent video.
Do you have a preference for purchased nordic poles/pikes (like Lundhags Striim) vs homemade? If I'm going to make one, is there a certain overall weight of the pike I should aim for? You mentioned using a grade 8 bolt, but is there a bolt diameter and length that works best?
Also, do you prefer using two poles or a single pole, and why? Thanks!
I wouldn't make ice poles, but I would and have made ice pikes. It's not difficult. I've never weighed mine. It has a wooden handle that was meant for a shovel and the head is made of stainless steel. You want it heavy enough that it will be efficient at chipping through ice, but not so heavy that it's a pain to carry all day. I would use a minimum 5/16" bolt; 3/8" would be better. A 6" bolt would be fine figuring that your going to sharpen it and subsequently shorten it a bit. I prefer using an ice pike rather than two ice poles in most cases. If I know that I'm going to buck a headwind all day, I'd opt for the poles. Otherwise I always use the pike. With poles you can have the tendency to rely on them too much to propel yourself. That can lead to poor skating technique. Both accomplish the same important thing: checking ice thickness and strength.
@@wildiceskater Thanks so much for your reply!
What you've said about 2 poles vs 1 pike makes a lot of sense.
I just saw that my local hardware store sells rake handles in a couple of different sizes, with a steel ferrule attached and a pre-drilled hole in the wood. One is a 1/2" diameter hole and the other is 3/8. I'll probably go with the 3/8, weld a rod or bolt to the ferrule where it enters the hole, and weld a steel ring or two around the top of the ferrule if I feel like I need more weight.
I appreciate all the great videos you've posted!
Hello, I was wondering if you could share details on your drysuit? Also, do you think it'd be possible to take some camping gear on a smitty sled onto one of these lakes (Sarnac or Lake Long) and do some winter camping? Nordic wilderness ice skating seems like a much more fun approach than dragging a sled for a few miles to camp!
Sure. The drysuit is a Kokatat model I picked up a couple years ago. It is now discontinued, but Kokatat makes exellent gore-tex suits as do other manufacturers. Important considerations: 1. get Gore-tex if you can afford it. Gore-tex is the most breathable of the membranes and it is durable. 2. make sure it fits. You've got to be able to squeeze into and out of it, but it not fit like a bag. In-person tryon is recommeded, but you can take personal measurements and shop online or over the phone with a rep. 3. Front crotch zipper for a man, rear hatch for a woman. You're going to be out all day and will need to at least pee. You can absolutely drag a sled and and go camping. You would still have to camp at designated sites or far back from the shore, but definitely doable and fun. Contact NYSDEC for rules and regulations. Enjoy and thanks for subscribing. Please consider sharing.
@@danielspada8030 Thank you. I will definitely share! I can see this becoming like the groups of nordic skaters they have in Norway or like the skating commuters they have in Sweden... it's a very convenient and fun way to get around! Your videos are of great help!
thanks dude! what brand pack is that?
Sorry I missed your question. The pack is by Ortlieb. This particular model is not made anymore but they have others that are waterproof that you can check out on their website.
thanks for the video!!! do u have links to where I can buy some of these product? really thanks a lot!! cheers from zurich ;)
Thomas, I assume you're looking for a European supplier. If you Google "Nordic Skates for sale in Europe" you will get several options. Here's one: scandinavianoutdoor.com/zandstra/winter-sports/winter-hiking/nordic-skating/sports-nis/ . I use NNN-BC bindings, not NIS or NNN. I think they are more robust and stable. I don't think it would be useful for you to order from the States because most places are out of blades right now. Good luck! Feel free to share my videos.
@@wildiceskater thanks a lot.. uns pls keep making these short videos,where you explain the stuff happen to encounter while skating ;) I really love it, thank you
Aren't auto inflated PFD designed to keep the wearer face up? As the buoyant part is at the front. Wouldn't it impede you when reaching for the ice sheet?
Thanks for your comment wisc flank! Since I made this video I have had a complete change of mind regarding self-inflating PFD's. I DO NOT RECOMMEND using self-inflating PFD's any longer and in future videos I will attempt to correct this. Your concern about keeping the wearer face up and therefore impede reaching for the edge of the ice may be valid. There are two other concerns. First, many self-inflaters are not labelled for use in freezing conditions. Check the Coast Guard label attached to the vest. I don't know whether the dissolving disc takes too long to dissolve in cold water or if the CO2 cartridge doesn't properly inflate the vest. If you must use one of these in winter, make sure it is labelled correctly. Second, a good friend of mine took a self-inflater and dressed a 5-gallon bucket with it and then immersed it in an ice hole. The vest inflated to the extent that it wedged the bucket in the hole and he could not pull the bucket out without deflating the vest. For these reasons, as well as yours, I recommend using only inherently buoyant PFD's. Cheers!
What about skating over flowing water? What should I know?
Good question Justin! All of the precautions you would use for wild skating on lakes and ponds apply to skating on rivers and streams. Get the gear. Learn how to use it. Wear and carry it with you at all times. Visualize. Check out: lakeice.squarespace.com/ (apparently down right now, but an incredible ice safety/science resource). Then think about streamflow and hydrodynamics. Water moves faster on the outside bend so that may have thinner ice. The thickest ice we've seen this year has been on the Saranac River and was 6"+ thick over flowing water. Why? We think because you can build up ice laminations as water levels fluctuate. Still, river and stream ice thickness can vary widely in a very short distance. We've seen very smooth and thick "sidewalks" along the shoreline that are totally safely skateable just a few feet from open water in the adjacent channel. Obstructions like fallen logs and boulders under the surface may make water move in different ways and often result in thinner ice. You've got to go slower and poke more. Never skate alone and preferably skate with someone who knows the particular river or stream you are skating perhaps from summer kayaking. Poke, poke, poke and compare your results with what the ice looks like to enhance your ability to "read" the ice. Finally, you need to be ready to say, "this is not good", and turn around and go home.
Do you have a link for your suit?
Aisha, This Kokatat suit model is no longer made. There are many suit manufacturers. Kokatat is a very good one. You could also try NRS. Google "goretex dry suit" and you will hit a thousand of them. My recommendation is two fold. First, make sure it fits. They are difficult to get into and should be tight, but they must be comfortable. Undoubtedly, you will have to adjust the neoprene or latex neck and wrist gaskets, perhaps even ankle gaskets if you don't get a suit with built in booties. I recommend getting built in booties. Second, buy a goretex suit if you can afford it. This is an active sport and this is a closed suit so you're going to sweat. Goretex is not perfect but it does help to vent some heat and moisture. Enjoy.