Proof that the complaints of plagiarism are myopic is that the sources from which Dylan borrows cannot replace Dylan’s use of them. Dylan’s sources minus Dylan would be an artistic loss because, like a Jewish midrash, he puts them in a different light and gives them novel contexts and meanings. And the idea that he should credit his sources in the songwriting tradition like he was writing an academic paper is trivial quibbling.
Well,I think,that Dylan(Zimmerman) borrowed Sylvia plathe's mirror and saw some disturbing things in it,saw all the people mentioned in a letter "bout the time the door knob broke",people so 'bentvout of shape by society's pliers" that he had to rearrange there faces and give each one another name.the mirror does nothing but reflect the truth---not plagiarism.
Is Plagiarism deep and runs to Shakespeare , to a Rhythm of the Blues ? hasn't Robert Zimmerman reveal he's nothing but a Song and Dance man and the Truth is that we should be looking at the POWER MUSIC HOUSE LABELS that we see today and we could question about 75% of Artist ..and when he doesn't pick up an award he's then called out .. Yet could it be for this reason he didn't or ,dam if you do or don't .. Mitchell is in her OLD YEARS a bitter woman , a Pro Covid n Farm Aid from her past like Neil Yong ..now their Big F-Pharma Aid today and was calling out anti vaxers .. she should stick to her Knitting
Maybe people shouldn't have reverance for anyone. I love Bob Dylan's music, but I don't worship him. I tried Joni Mitchell, but she wasn't a good fit. It's like trying on shoes. All subjective. Why trash one artist against another? Nonsense.
@Zannathin I bought Court and Spark when it came out. Good stuff. I just morphed into heavy backbeat blues. I read her tunings were pretty unique. Beautiful vocals.
Thank you jolenedelillys, It is malicious! I loved Joni, as well, but I sense some bitterness here, in these woke times. The ones who rejected Dylan’s music then are ones in charge now
I just listened to 'No More Auction Block For Me' - I hear a clear resemblence to the melody in 'Blowin in the Wind' in the first part of every line of the verse, for example "How many roads must a man walk down" varies in 2 (or 3) notes from the melody of "No more auction block for me". Odetta was active in the early 50s, she appeared on stages with Pete Seeger, who Dylan was trying follow in the footsteps of. But I didn't find the second half of the "Blowing in the Wind" verse melody "Before you call him a man" anywhere in Odetta's recording. Maybe that too can be found in a traditional gospel or blues song. Or in a piano part in a piece of music by Bach. OTOH, the verse "how many seas must the white dove sail, before she sleeps in the sand.", is an image from the Torah where Noah release a dove while the Ark is floating after the flood. So has he drawn from all these influences and put together something new? Or is it stealing? Somewhere I read an interview with Bob Dylan in the 80s or 90s where he said something like "when i sing 'Blowin' in the Wind' now I don't even fell like it's my song, it's like I'm singing some old folk song. Like it doesn't even belong to me." [Update] Bobl Dylan's version of "No More Auction Block For Me" ruclips.net/video/5_KHDWpnDjg/видео.htmlsi=bAFP7Q1qoRKv3q-Q
Bob has never claimed to be more than a song and a dance man. He means different things to everybody. Joni Mitchell's comments about Bob was done sometimes in the Middle Ages. Can we forget about it already?
The folk tradition, from Jimmy Rogers and The Carters up 'till now, is a tradition of sharing. Performers have long built upon each other's work. Dylan has always been "an originator" in terms of attitude, performance style and yes, writing. Mitchell ought to realize there's room for everybody. It's not a competition. She's a brilliant artist in her own right. And so's Bob Dylan.
It's only been fairly recently that Joni has been widely acknowledged as a genius. She came up during a time when music was almost completely male dominated and felt the disrespect over the years. Joni gave that interview many years ago, so I hope all is forgiven now that her legacy has been cemented.
So who is 100% authentic, her hair, dress, attitude we’re all prevalent at the time, much like the Farrah Fawcett, Princess Diana look. Bob got us through the tension of Vietnam, enjoy the electric instruments to mellowing out later in life. His lyrics were truly genius.
This is gossip fodder. Let the people speak for themselves. Joni put her comments in perspective a few years back. She calls him a great artist. We all have influences. Joni even toured with Bob Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue. Everyone knows Woody was Dylan's Idol. He was doing that style until he developed his own. Your video is gossip baloney.
Love Joni, love Bob, grew up listening to both, and playing their songs in my own bands and ensembles. I’ve borrowed ideas from both of them. All artists borrow, although I will say, Joni did forge her own way through alternate tunings while Bob tended to stick to standard chords. But both are major poets in their own rights, and I think Joni deserved the Nobel Prize as much as Bob did.
I’ve often thought that Don McLean referred to Dylan as “the jester”in “American Pie” because of the irony. Dylan was socially conscious and very serious, especially in the 1960’s.
@willaimmcconnell9430. I saw an interview with Dylan and he expressed disbelief about McLean calling him the “jester “. He said he had no idea why he was referred to that way.
A 'classic' is something built on a prior piece. It is a compliment to the first creation. I met Dylan in Aix-En-Provence, France: he is not a thief or a plagiarist. He is true blue.
Rambling irrelevant pointless all folk music is handed down and Melodys adapted to new lyrics check out woody Guthrie as an example Dylan brought intelligence relevance and meaning to folk and popular music on an international level you don’t get a Nobel prize for stealing this is what sour grapes sound like
Dylan came from the folk idiom where all songs are considered "public domain" and can therefore be looted needed. But what sets Dylan apart is his sincerity. This is what Columbia Records John Hammond saw in him - a rare sincerity. I think Joni iis bitter because she is no longer the young beautiful "magic Princess she once was. Bob has aged better in my opinion.
I think you got pieces of the truth - but that is what history is - vision and re-vision - for every story has gaps to fill, some fall out and get filled again. Over and over again, my friend - can't you see, we are in the age of reconstruction.
this is a pretty shallow view of joni mitchell imo. “a young beautiful magic princess”. Kind of ignores the gravity of the body of her work, which was and continues to be revolutionary.
With or without elements of artistic lifting Dylan’s dedication, hard work, unique style, prolific portfolio, creative content, his studio and stage performances rightly put him on the pedestal where the industry places him. Listen to what George Harrison says about Dylan. A tapestry of found fabrics remains a birth to originality and in Dylan’s case it’s a record of genius.
his singing was iconic, uniquely american, and an art form unto itself…..it is one of the greatest aspects of his genius…of course it is not a traditionally good voice , but that is part of its grand touch
Dylan';s "Beyond The Horizen" is the exact melody as "Red Sails in the Sunset" note for note..but I still like it because Bob knows what works and what doesn't after all the years.
Joni is a genius in her own right, but why does she have to go after anyone else? Nobody stakes their life on musical artists. If they do, they are not very smart. I am more of a fan of Joni than Bob Dylan but I think her ego sometimes gets the best of her. She is old now. Why not just celebrate her own contribution?
I love Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon. But when I read her interviews in Rolling Stone in 1991 promoting Night Ride Home, she shaded Carly Simon and downright degraded Madonna. In an interview with RS in 2002, she shaded Carly (again) and this time Carole King. Crosby said Mitchell is about as humble as Mussolinni. I love Joni, but like you said, there's room for everyone. She should be grateful for her gifts. With greatness should come humility.
@@70softrocker I met Joni once in a recording studio in LA. She seemed nice but it was in 1974 so she wasn't quite icon status yet. I respect her artistry and think she is a genius but many of the artists who become legends are not as humble as they should be. That's why my favorites are not as widely celebrated but have great success regardless of how much the entertainment machine promotes and markets them.
Sounds like Joni might be a little jealous of Bob. Bob Dylan was a great musician who refused to bend the way everyone wanted him to. He had a vision of what he wanted to be and he went for it. I don't care what others think of him. We're with you Bob and that's all that matters.❤😊
Can you imagine all of the people that had a valid reason to fear that one day Dylan would give them his left ear that he had cut off and neatly packaged. His music is one thing but, can we appreciate how lucky we are that we didn't have to deal with Bob the person.
No matter how he put things together it was genius. Joni has always had an edge with Dylan because he got the bigger spotlight. Her arrangements were good and even great but not genius.
I have great respect for both these fine artists. I think Joni is overlooking a creative phenomenon that original artists share; namely, the 'inspirational ether'. There are melodies and poetry swirling around in that mysterious psych-soup. We are no the only ones plugged into it. Sometimes, unintentionally, the same or similar ideas/melodies/lyrics are picked up by more than one set of antenna. Being as prolific as Dylan was/is, its not unreasonable to assume that now and then, he was pulling stuff out of that soup, that was also occurring to someone else.
This is too thin and vague to mean anything. I love it when people take a new song and say it's like a previous song. So what? New songs can't bear any shred of resemblance to a prior song? It's still a different song, a new song. Bob's great -- deal with it.
Ridiculous! "Is there anything new under the sun??" Forgive my not giving acknowledgment because I don't remember who said it....Also, I don't think anyone gives two fu**s... I think this is the equivalent of "splitting frog hairs..." Sorry... I don't know who said that, either...
I call jealousy, Dylan wouldnt bend to her and she couldn't control him. All music is a blend of what came before, even her personal songs someone had experienced the same before, nothings new, just happens in a different form. 🎉
A couple examples: Bob Dylan's Dream - Lord Franklin; Don't Think Twice - "Who's Gonna Buy You Ribbons When I'm Gone?" I have been aware of these for many years. I knew he did this some but I wasn't aware how pervasive his "borrowing" was. He never felt any obligation to give credit, or a tip of the hat to the originators.
Judgments about artists - assessments and ratings - have nothing to do with the personal _impact_ of art. If someone's music touches you or takes you somewhere special, what do you care about how someone rates them or criticizes them? I'm glad both Joni and Dylan exist, I've resonated deeply with their respective creations - different as they are. Let Joni's left brain appraise & pronounce, it doesn't effect my appreciation of both their right brain outputs.
She's angry at him because she thought he snubbed her after a concert at Mad Square Garden in 1999. I saw her walk to the side of the stage at the end of his show-and hand a note to a tech- Dylan immediately (as he always does) leave-not looking at her. She thought he snubbed her. You gotta get right in front of him=-side acts don';t get his attention . Sorry Joni..How Does It Feel...lol.
Just can’t believe how ridiculous this post is . Nothing Anyone who has followed Dylan ..Excepts he borrowed from Woody Guthrie onwards … listen to Pete Seeger on all music ?
Joni is my favourite artist musically. Yet she has always been a very blunt and bitter person. She just goes to far at times. Jackson Browne said something like this years back. That Joni is bitter and full of cynicism and hatred. Her song ‘not to blame’ where she directly blames Browne of persuading his first wife to commit suicide in the 70s. Mitchell will criticise anyone that rubs her wrong or threatens her. There is no doubt Dylan is a genius in his own right. Everyone is influenced by others and others work will find their way into your own art without it being theft. Dylan stands in sturdy ground. None of this is news. Some people don’t like him and will hit below the belt just to get some negative attention in Dynan. It has been like that for 60 years. Still, he has endured and is the biggest hero of 90% of our rock heroes from the 60s and 70s like Springsteen, Browne, The Beatles, the stones, Johnny Cash, Neil Young and Leonard Cohen. With the new movie Dylan will again thrive with a young audience.
Joni is not in Bob Dylan's league ok she wrote a FEW good tunes Bob has literally penned HUNDREDS enough said and Joni is obviously very JEALOUS!! Paul McCartney said when writing songs you start with a popular tune and make it a completely new tune by experimenting with subtle changes!!
This lady is still doing what she’s tried to do since the beginning of her career. Attempting to be relevant. I read articles of Dylan so called plagiarism. Let’s get this straight. Has everyone broke the time down. So, while he was becoming the golden boy of folk , then transferring into electric. And, working along side multiple collaborators. So, is this conspiracy plagiarism? I believe Dylan feeling remorse for his version of House of the Rising Sun. The studio wanted another song. He knew all the words, he recorded it. I think she’s a woman scorned. I heard her once say, he couldn’t play guitar and he smelled like cigarettes. I never heard him sing, she couldn’t sing and smelled like fish. I think she’s stuck inside of mobile with the Memphis blues again.
Joni....A Legend in 'yer own time....And you turn on the radio and sing with the singer in the band....(Yeah, I know these are Carly Simon lyrics, but they fit)
He tapped into the stream of all consciousness - that river where everything floats by. Is it plagiarism to pull in bits of words, music and style that were once hooked by others and shaped to fit their times - or is it all catch and release if one can name that tune in one note?
It's all subjective. How do YOU define: the song?...the popular song?...music?...commercial appeal? authenticity?...art?...appropriation? -- and so on...
A lot hollow talk, insinuation, repetition… but not much evidence. Meanwhile Dylan himself says he borrowed from a lot of people (everyone does). So.. what’s new here?
Blowing in the Wind was definitely built on No More Auction Block for Me but just like quoting the Bible or borrowing some generalized riff it shows only that each generation builds on past generations works.
So if his persona was an act, that doesn't make the music itself less authentic. Nobody hated David Bowie for becoming Ziggy Stardust. Joni wrote a song about Bob, where she was peeved that Bob wasn't talking to her much while they were on tour. Bob frequently did not chat much with his opening acts. He was eccentric that way. Get over it.
I only know a couple of Joni's songs. Artists who write nothing but introspective songs might be narcissistic, all depends on what they write & how many people relate to it. Bob can be inauthentic with songs like "It's a Hard Rain" with lines like "I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans, I've been 10,000 miles in the mouth of a graveyard" I doubt Bob ever did that. Could be youthful bravado & hyperbole. As far as image, doesn't Bob avoid press & let his songs say what he wants. I always thought the image came more from rock journalists. Many rock journalists tended to be amateur creative writers & poets wanting to make a name for themselves.
I'm sorry. This material was covered in the wonderful movie, Begin Again. Dylan is only mentioned once, but Mark Ruffelo's drunk A&R Man said the very same thing about him. Dylan? Original? He's an extremely talented Musician, Poet, Songwriter and World Class Entertainer. He doesn't have to be Original....it's beside the point. Dylan has paid his dues. And he's a lot more honest than you're going to get from a lot of Artists today.
There are few talented people who can speak with authority regarding art and expression. Joni and Dylan are both of the highest echelon artists. Joni is correct in what she has said of Dylan, at critical times he has denied the contributions of others to his success. Yet all achievements are based on the contributions of everything that ever came before. There’s a little plagiarism in all expressions. Even Joni has used the gifts given freely by others. Sometimes unconsciously but usually with purpose. Because it’s fitting and speaks of truth in some interesting way. Benefiting from repetition and what we can add as individuals. Speaking truth to life. ❤❤❤
Where's anything in this video about Joni Mitchell finally breaking her silence? It is instead just one more stab at sabotaging the legend of the greatest creator of our lifetime.
Joni Mitchell has heaped both profound praise and artistic criticism on Dylan. I won't comment on it, but I will comment on some of Dylan's past actions. He savaged Bobbie Gentry's classic song, Ode to Billie Joe, with a vicious parody called Answer to Ode :Clothesline Saga. Gentry rose above it stating in print Dylan was entitled to his opinion. Ode to Billie Joe has over 250 covers and 50 million in sales. In the 1970's Dylan ,in a Rolling Stone Magazine interview, had the audacity to state there was not a single major female poet in the English language. When pressed further his nasty retort: Who Emily Dickenson? I was devastated by such a misogynistic comment. Dylan is a musical genius and one of the most important artists in our history but don't put him on a pedestal. He is human and flawed like the rest of us.
Joni was fantastic! Of course her career was less dimensional than Bob's. Did Bob snub her along the way? Perhaps but who knows the source for her bitterness? Joni was all over the RTR tour. Why? She was borrowing Bob's energy and fame maybe? Joni Mitchell hasn't done herself any favors regarding these lousy accusations. accusations
dylan is a showman in show business, a creative fabricator of dreams visions a magpie. jonie is a diaryist a much more narrow frame of reference she is neither epic nor symbolist, she spins in, bob spins out. history will out.
@@LindaHuff-n9x Absolutely true - she has no reason to be jealous. But (apparently) she is. I prefer Ladies of the Canyon, but I know it's not as highly rated. Also Hissing is great.
Oh, our human strong need to paint everything and everybody in either black or white! Isn't there a description between prophet and plaganist? Dylan never claimed that he wasn't influenced by other artists, and he never said he is a prophet. A few times, he said that he was a poet. Most of the time, he said "I'm a sing and dance man". We can pull apart anybody if we want to find mistakes. Even Joni Mitchell (who's music and poetry I also love!)).
Love Joni but cant agree with her on this one. Dylan represents something bigger than himself, why he was an icon, he gave a voice to the tramp and the wino and the clown, who had a voice that no one wanted to hear. He gave a voice to help african americans in a crucial time in our history when everyone else was too afraid to speak. Dylan isnt just an opportunist, he is an icon who had huge cultural impact because he reflected alot of what people were feeling but could not put into words, same thing with John Lennon and Kurt Cobain for example.
Rappers sample on every song, this has been happening for years, singers have been borrowing melodies for 100s of years Dylan is the most important artist on the planet, just look how he shaped popular culture music for 7 decades
I can't comment on the so-called "storm" as this whole accusation was a revelation to me, and I don't follow the world of music. But I ask these so-called critics, what exactly does that pivotal term "originality" really mean? Are we not all influenced by othes, by what we read, hear and listen to? It would seem that to be totally original one would almost have to live in a vacuum. Did anyone have his unique delivery, unusually long and self-reflective lyrics, iconic style,etc. And if he took themes or even actual lyrics from obscure and long forgotten sources, who else had the ethos to put it into a modern zeitgeist that resonated with a whole generation? Believe me, I'M NOT a long term fan of Dylan, I view his personal life as a sad failure, and only enjoyed/listened to his music for the few youthful years I was caught up in the counter-culture, but something tells me this is just a tempest in a tea pot, stirred by petty invectives of people who never achieved his success and are just plain jealous of the longevity of his career .
Joni- you stole colors red, orange green etc - didnt you??? People say beware…He has done more for civil rights than you can ever dream of. Ask Mingus. Bitterness wears a weary face.
I actually didn't hear anything in this that was clearly damning and likely more the result of people that didn't like Dylan and spent a lot of time trying to make a case. Everybody borrows thoughts of others. As far as Mitchell, she was clearly talented but for one or two songs, left me very much unspellbounded. I certainly wonder if his spectacular rise was enabled by Jewish nepotism in New York and his spectacular upgrade in his skills also makes one wonder if there was some sort of Deep State effort to create a super star at this particular hour time, very much in harmony with the civil rights movement of which his "going electric" was him getting fed up with the expectation. No hard evidence though and till we get some, I say, let it ride!
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
All artists for the most part , stand on the shoulders of their Predecessors
We are each influenced by what has preceded us
How could it be otherwise ?
Proof that the complaints of plagiarism are myopic is that the sources from which Dylan borrows cannot replace Dylan’s use of them. Dylan’s sources minus Dylan would be an artistic loss because, like a Jewish midrash, he puts them in a different light and gives them novel contexts and meanings. And the idea that he should credit his sources in the songwriting tradition like he was writing an academic paper is trivial quibbling.
Well,I think,that Dylan(Zimmerman) borrowed Sylvia plathe's mirror and saw some disturbing things in it,saw all the people mentioned in a letter "bout the time the door knob broke",people so 'bentvout of shape by society's pliers" that he had to rearrange there faces and give each one another name.the mirror does nothing but reflect the truth---not plagiarism.
Is Plagiarism deep and runs to Shakespeare , to a Rhythm of the Blues ? hasn't Robert Zimmerman reveal he's nothing but a Song and Dance man and the Truth is that we should be looking at the POWER MUSIC HOUSE LABELS that we see today and we could question about 75% of Artist ..and when he doesn't pick up an award he's then called out .. Yet could it be for this reason he didn't or ,dam if you do or don't .. Mitchell is in her OLD YEARS a bitter woman , a Pro Covid n Farm Aid from her past like Neil Yong ..now their Big F-Pharma Aid today and was calling out anti vaxers .. she should stick to her Knitting
Don't waste your time on this piece of crap.
Amen.
Idiocy. A case against what? For what?
I dunno, I woulda when Joni was younger.....
Maybe people shouldn't have reverance for anyone. I love Bob Dylan's music, but I don't worship him. I tried Joni Mitchell, but she wasn't a good fit. It's like trying on shoes. All subjective. Why trash one artist against another? Nonsense.
yep!
Joni Mitchell is amazing
@Zannathin I bought Court and Spark when it came out. Good stuff. I just morphed into heavy backbeat blues. I read her tunings were pretty unique. Beautiful vocals.
Love Bob Dylan ❤️😘😘😘😘😘
This is nonsense! As much as I love Joni, Dylan was a genius wordsmith. Come on! Even if it was a puzzle, he put it together magnificently.
Thank you jolenedelillys, It is malicious! I loved Joni, as well, but I sense some bitterness here, in these woke times. The ones who rejected Dylan’s music then are ones in charge now
@@nightbloomer4739 I think this video is simply over execrating all that Joni once said.
I just listened to 'No More Auction Block For Me' - I hear a clear resemblence to the melody in 'Blowin in the Wind' in the first part of every line of the verse, for example "How many roads must a man walk down" varies in 2 (or 3) notes from the melody of "No more auction block for me". Odetta was active in the early 50s, she appeared on stages with Pete Seeger, who Dylan was trying follow in the footsteps of.
But I didn't find the second half of the "Blowing in the Wind" verse melody "Before you call him a man" anywhere in Odetta's recording. Maybe that too can be found in a traditional gospel or blues song. Or in a piano part in a piece of music by Bach. OTOH, the verse "how many seas must the white dove sail, before she sleeps in the sand.", is an image from the Torah where Noah release a dove while the Ark is floating after the flood. So has he drawn from all these influences and put together something new? Or is it stealing? Somewhere I read an interview with Bob Dylan in the 80s or 90s where he said something like "when i sing 'Blowin' in the Wind' now I don't even fell like it's my song, it's like I'm singing some old folk song. Like it doesn't even belong to me."
[Update]
Bobl Dylan's version of "No More Auction Block For Me"
ruclips.net/video/5_KHDWpnDjg/видео.htmlsi=bAFP7Q1qoRKv3q-Q
Someone can be both brilliant and a thief. Dylan has done some unsavoury stuff.
Less of the "was" please! He's still with us, and he's even written some halfway decent new lyrics in the last few years.
Said the joker to the thief
There must be some kind of way out of here.
The wheel´s still in spin....CIA
I can't get no relief
and the wind began to howl…
The joker stole his jokes from the thief
Bob has never claimed to be more than a song and a dance man. He means different things to everybody. Joni Mitchell's comments about Bob was done sometimes in the Middle Ages. Can we forget about it already?
The folk tradition, from Jimmy Rogers and The Carters up 'till now, is a tradition of sharing. Performers have long built upon each other's work. Dylan has always been "an originator" in terms of attitude, performance style and yes, writing. Mitchell ought to realize there's room for everybody. It's not a competition. She's a brilliant artist in her own right. And so's Bob Dylan.
It's only been fairly recently that Joni has been widely acknowledged as a genius. She came up during a time when music was almost completely male dominated and felt the disrespect over the years. Joni gave that interview many years ago, so I hope all is forgiven now that her legacy has been cemented.
Well 50 years later I am still enjoying his “deception”. Now more than ever.
So who is 100% authentic, her hair, dress, attitude we’re all prevalent at the time, much like the Farrah Fawcett, Princess Diana look. Bob got us through the tension of Vietnam, enjoy the electric instruments to mellowing out later in life. His lyrics were truly genius.
Have you noticed that Dylan never says anything to anyone? We never hear him defend or promote himself.
This is gossip fodder. Let the people speak for themselves. Joni put her comments in perspective a few years back. She calls him a great artist. We all have influences. Joni even toured with Bob Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue. Everyone knows Woody was Dylan's Idol. He was doing that style until he developed his own. Your video is gossip baloney.
Well said.
Ha ha ha! I saw Joni backing up Dylan on tour in 1998 or 1999.
Love Joni, love Bob, grew up listening to both, and playing their songs in my own bands and ensembles. I’ve borrowed ideas from both of them. All artists borrow, although I will say, Joni did forge her own way through alternate tunings while Bob tended to stick to standard chords. But both are major poets in their own rights, and I think Joni deserved the Nobel Prize as much as Bob did.
Oh Joni. You know better than that. Was Woody authentic? How about Joan Baez? What exactly is authentic?
Dylan is brilliant but he was also an unscrupulous thief. He ripped off Dave Van Ronk and others.
I heard Dylan used ghostwriters.
@@fredlyr1
Dave Von Ronk gave him guitar lessons.
Which song did he rip off from him
0
@@rogerdodger6025
Is that what you heard 😂😂😂😂
@@LondonView-q4x That's what I read. Not saying it's true, but it's not hard to believe considering others have done it.
I’ve often thought that Don McLean referred to Dylan as “the jester”in “American Pie” because of the irony. Dylan was socially conscious and very serious, especially in the 1960’s.
Try Dylan himself. He refers to himself as a jester in several songs. Easy to remember lyrics to Like a Rolling Stone for example
I have seen Mclean live and he slags off everyone. With Mitchel and him its pure envy. Dylan is authentic as you can get.
@@willaimoconnell9430 Jokerman.
@willaimmcconnell9430. I saw an interview with Dylan and he expressed disbelief about McLean calling him the “jester “. He said he had no idea why he was referred to that way.
Interesting, informative and entertaining !!! Excellent plus job !
A 'classic' is something built on a prior piece. It is a compliment to the first creation. I met Dylan in Aix-En-Provence, France: he is not a thief or a plagiarist. He is true blue.
...In your opinion
i hear her. but artist have always did done this. you can't deny his longevity. bob created the weave.
Rambling irrelevant pointless all folk music is handed down and Melodys adapted to new lyrics check out woody Guthrie as an example Dylan brought intelligence relevance and meaning to folk and popular music on an international level you don’t get a Nobel prize for stealing this is what sour grapes sound like
Dylan is an even bigger narcissist than Joni Mitchell is. I think that's the gist of her point. Valid point.
Hey, this was a real revelation! But who's VOICE did he steal?!?!!?🤣
Dylan came from the folk idiom where all songs are considered "public domain" and can therefore be looted needed. But what sets Dylan apart is his sincerity. This is what Columbia Records John Hammond saw in him - a rare sincerity. I think Joni iis bitter because she is no longer the young beautiful "magic Princess she once was. Bob has aged better in my opinion.
I think you got pieces of the truth - but that is what history is - vision and re-vision - for every story has gaps to fill, some fall out and get filled again. Over and over again, my friend - can't you see, we are in the age of reconstruction.
this is a pretty shallow view of joni mitchell imo. “a young beautiful magic princess”. Kind of ignores the gravity of the body of her work, which was and continues to be revolutionary.
@@tjcoop1233 lo que está explicando es la causa de su amargura. Su obra no tiene que ver.
Its probably more true than not that Dylan to inspire himself looked outside himself and not inside himself.
IF TRUE SO WHAT WE ALL BARROW PHRASES WORDS AND CHRORD PROGRESIONS IT JUST HAPPENS IN SHORT HE WAS GOOD
Borrowed
Is
He was speaking about what influenced him 💜
With or without elements of artistic lifting Dylan’s dedication, hard work, unique style, prolific portfolio, creative content, his studio and stage performances rightly put him on the pedestal where the industry places him. Listen to what George Harrison says about Dylan. A tapestry of found fabrics remains a birth to originality and in Dylan’s case it’s a record of genius.
What a bunch of bull!
I can listen to Joni Mitchell sing for hours but Bobs voice grates me so a couple of songs of his and I am done ,
And I am totally opposite. :)
I think that Dylan is a genius and I absolutely love Joni….. she has some points about Dylan but I still that Dylan wrote brilliant lyrics.
I can't believe anyone would think Dylan could actually sing....😮
his singing was iconic, uniquely american, and an art form unto itself…..it is one of the greatest aspects of his genius…of course it is not a traditionally good voice , but that is part of its grand touch
Dylan';s "Beyond The Horizen" is the exact melody as "Red Sails in the Sunset" note for note..but I still like it because Bob knows what works and what doesn't after all the years.
Inspiration comes from many sources. Plagerism is CLEAR. He didn't plagerize anything. Make of it what you wish. That's what people do today.
Joni is a genius in her own right, but why does she have to go after anyone else? Nobody stakes their life on musical artists. If they do, they are not very smart. I am more of a fan of Joni than Bob Dylan but I think her ego sometimes gets the best of her. She is old now. Why not just celebrate her own contribution?
I love Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon. But when I read her interviews in Rolling Stone in 1991 promoting Night Ride Home, she shaded Carly Simon and downright degraded Madonna. In an interview with RS in 2002, she shaded Carly (again) and this time Carole King. Crosby said Mitchell is about as humble as Mussolinni. I love Joni, but like you said, there's room for everyone. She should be grateful for her gifts. With greatness should come humility.
@@70softrocker I met Joni once in a recording studio in LA. She seemed nice but it was in 1974 so she wasn't quite icon status yet. I respect her artistry and think she is a genius but many of the artists who become legends are not as humble as they should be. That's why my favorites are not as widely celebrated but have great success regardless of how much the entertainment machine promotes and markets them.
His words speak for themselves. This video is ridiculous. He creates an image. So what? "Aw, sour grapes because you lost your heart", Joni
Sounds like Joni might be a little jealous of Bob. Bob Dylan was a great musician who refused to bend the way everyone wanted him to. He had a vision of what he wanted to be and he went for it. I don't care what others think of him. We're with you Bob and that's all that matters.❤😊
Can you imagine all of the people that had a valid reason to fear that one day Dylan would give them his left ear that he had cut off and neatly packaged. His music is one thing but, can we appreciate how lucky we are that we didn't have to deal with Bob the person.
No matter how he put things together it was genius. Joni has always had an edge with Dylan because he got the bigger spotlight. Her arrangements were good and even great but not genius.
How do you work your ranking scale? I find these arbitrary-seeming judgements intriguing. Is there some kind of instruction book I could get?
I think she is petty. Sure Dylan borrows from everything. All his peers respect him, and they know his weaknesses as well as his strengths.
And Nash borrowed Joni from Crosby
I wish the world would grow up already.
I have great respect for both these fine artists. I think Joni is overlooking a creative phenomenon that original artists share; namely, the 'inspirational ether'. There are melodies and poetry swirling around in that mysterious psych-soup. We are no the only ones plugged into it. Sometimes, unintentionally, the same or similar ideas/melodies/lyrics are picked up by more than one set of antenna. Being as prolific as Dylan was/is, its not unreasonable to assume that now and then, he was pulling stuff out of that soup, that was also occurring to someone else.
Joni is jealous. In her latter work there is barely a melody to be found.
This is too thin and vague to mean anything. I love it when people take a new song and say it's like a previous song. So what? New songs can't bear any shred of resemblance to a prior song? It's still a different song, a new song. Bob's great -- deal with it.
Ridiculous! "Is there anything new under the sun??" Forgive my not giving acknowledgment because I don't remember who said it....Also, I don't think anyone gives two fu**s... I think this is the equivalent of "splitting frog hairs..." Sorry... I don't know who said that, either...
It's like saying Mississippi John Hurt stole material from leadbelly
I call jealousy, Dylan wouldnt bend to her and she couldn't control him. All music is a blend of what came before, even her personal songs someone had experienced the same before, nothings new, just happens in a different form. 🎉
A couple examples: Bob Dylan's Dream - Lord Franklin; Don't Think Twice - "Who's Gonna Buy You Ribbons When I'm Gone?" I have been aware of these for many years. I knew he did this some but I wasn't aware how pervasive his "borrowing" was. He never felt any obligation to give credit, or a tip of the hat to the originators.
Judgments about artists - assessments and ratings - have nothing to do with the personal _impact_ of art. If someone's music touches you or takes you somewhere special, what do you care about how someone rates them or criticizes them? I'm glad both Joni and Dylan exist, I've resonated deeply with their respective creations - different as they are. Let Joni's left brain appraise & pronounce, it doesn't effect my appreciation of both their right brain outputs.
I always suspected Dylan of being a conman. A clever one but still a conman.
Would rather hear the late John Prine anyday.
Dylan was an innovator🎸😛
Same with Led Zeppelin, so many of their early songs are dead rip-offs of other songs. They did present them in an original way though.
She's angry at him because she thought he snubbed her after a concert at Mad Square Garden in 1999. I saw her walk to the side of the stage at the end of his show-and hand a note to a tech- Dylan immediately (as he always does) leave-not looking at her. She thought he snubbed her. You gotta get right in front of him=-side acts don';t get his attention . Sorry Joni..How Does It Feel...lol.
Just can’t believe how ridiculous this post is . Nothing
Anyone who has followed Dylan ..Excepts he borrowed from
Woody Guthrie onwards … listen to Pete Seeger on all music ?
Just another dylan hater love bob❤
Garbage
There's no mystique about Dylan, he's a very prosaic person, but that doesn't mean he's not a great artist
Well said.
Joni is my favourite artist musically. Yet she has always been a very blunt and bitter person. She just goes to far at times. Jackson Browne said something like this years back. That Joni is bitter and full of cynicism and hatred. Her song ‘not to blame’ where she directly blames Browne of persuading his first wife to commit suicide in the 70s. Mitchell will criticise anyone that rubs her wrong or threatens her. There is no doubt Dylan is a genius in his own right. Everyone is influenced by others and others work will find their way into your own art without it being theft. Dylan stands in sturdy ground. None of this is news. Some people don’t like him and will hit below the belt just to get some negative attention in Dynan. It has been like that for 60 years. Still, he has endured and is the biggest hero of 90% of our rock heroes from the 60s and 70s like Springsteen, Browne, The Beatles, the stones, Johnny Cash, Neil Young and Leonard Cohen. With the new movie Dylan will again thrive with a young audience.
Joni is not in Bob Dylan's league ok she wrote a FEW good tunes Bob has literally penned HUNDREDS enough said and Joni is obviously very JEALOUS!! Paul McCartney said when writing songs you start with a popular tune and make it a completely new tune by experimenting with subtle changes!!
How absurd.
This is like arguing who is a better football player. Fine for sports and useless for the best songwriters.
Just a jealous chick. Plagiarist? So where are the lawsuits?
This lady is still doing what she’s tried to do since the beginning of her career. Attempting to be relevant. I read articles of Dylan so called plagiarism. Let’s get this straight. Has everyone broke the time down. So, while he was becoming the golden boy of folk , then transferring into electric. And, working along side multiple collaborators. So, is this conspiracy plagiarism? I believe Dylan feeling remorse for his version of House of the Rising Sun. The studio wanted another song. He knew all the words, he recorded it. I think she’s a woman scorned. I heard her once say, he couldn’t play guitar and he smelled like cigarettes. I never heard him sing, she couldn’t sing and smelled like fish. I think she’s stuck inside of mobile with the Memphis blues again.
Joni....A Legend in 'yer own time....And you turn on the radio and sing with the singer in the band....(Yeah, I know these are Carly Simon lyrics, but they fit)
He tapped into the stream of all consciousness - that river where everything floats by. Is it plagiarism to pull in bits of words, music and style that were once hooked by others and shaped to fit their times - or is it all catch and release if one can name that tune in one note?
It's all subjective. How do YOU define: the song?...the popular song?...music?...commercial appeal? authenticity?...art?...appropriation? -- and so on...
All music is borrowed from the past including Joni … I loved
Her music .. but seems she is just bitter … Sad
Lets count the number of GOOD songs Bob Dylan has written compared to the crap 75% of the songs Joni Mitchell has written.
A lot hollow talk, insinuation, repetition… but not much evidence. Meanwhile Dylan himself says he borrowed from a lot of people (everyone does). So.. what’s new here?
Blowing in the Wind was definitely built on No More Auction Block for Me but just like quoting the Bible or borrowing some generalized riff it shows only that each generation builds on past generations works.
That's a rather feminine face at the start - I think it's Kate Blanchette in her role as Mr Zimmerman !? 😹
This answers a perceptions unexpected.
If you steal from someone, your a thief; but if you steal from many you are a genius. He was able to channel and synthesize many influences
So if his persona was an act, that doesn't make the music itself less authentic. Nobody hated David Bowie for becoming Ziggy Stardust.
Joni wrote a song about Bob, where she was peeved that Bob wasn't talking to her much while they were on tour. Bob frequently did not chat much with his opening acts. He was eccentric that way. Get over it.
She is a sad person! I'm not a fan of her opinions!
I only know a couple of Joni's songs. Artists who write nothing but introspective songs might be narcissistic, all depends on what they write & how many people relate to it.
Bob can be inauthentic with songs like "It's a Hard Rain" with lines like "I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans, I've been 10,000 miles in the mouth of a graveyard"
I doubt Bob ever did that. Could be youthful bravado & hyperbole.
As far as image, doesn't Bob avoid press & let his songs say what he wants. I always thought the image came more from rock journalists. Many rock journalists tended to be amateur creative writers & poets wanting to make a name for themselves.
So Joni 'finally ' breaks silence' ,when was this then ? Yesterday, last week, 10-20 years ago.
I'm sorry. This material was covered in the wonderful movie, Begin Again. Dylan is only mentioned once, but Mark Ruffelo's drunk A&R Man said the very same thing about him. Dylan? Original? He's an extremely talented Musician, Poet, Songwriter and World Class Entertainer. He doesn't have to be Original....it's beside the point. Dylan has paid his dues. And he's a lot more honest than you're going to get from a lot of Artists today.
There are few talented people who can speak with authority regarding art and expression. Joni and Dylan are both of the highest echelon artists. Joni is correct in what she has said of Dylan, at critical times he has denied the contributions of others to his success. Yet all achievements are based on the contributions of everything that ever came before. There’s a little plagiarism in all expressions. Even Joni has used the gifts given freely by others. Sometimes unconsciously but usually with purpose. Because it’s fitting and speaks of truth in some interesting way. Benefiting from repetition and what we can add as individuals. Speaking truth to life. ❤❤❤
Joni wishes she could write a song as good as Dylan.
Dylan always knew he was full of shit, it was everybody else that didn't . . .
Where's anything in this video about Joni Mitchell finally breaking her silence? It is instead just one more stab at sabotaging the legend of the greatest creator of our lifetime.
Makes you wonder what their history is.
I'd pick bob everyday!
Perhaps someone shld ask Joan Baez? And take a look into his 8 warehouse archive...
Everybody knows how new music evolves out of precedence. Mitchell is the tarnished individual in this article.
Joni Mitchell has heaped both profound praise and artistic criticism on Dylan. I won't comment on it, but I will comment on some of Dylan's past actions. He savaged Bobbie Gentry's classic song, Ode to Billie Joe, with a vicious parody called Answer to Ode :Clothesline Saga. Gentry rose above it stating in print Dylan was entitled to his opinion. Ode to Billie Joe has over 250 covers and 50 million in sales. In the 1970's Dylan ,in a Rolling Stone Magazine interview, had the audacity to state there was not a single major female poet in the English language. When pressed further his nasty retort: Who Emily Dickenson? I was devastated by such a misogynistic comment. Dylan is a musical genius and one of the most important artists in our history but don't put him on a pedestal. He is human and flawed like the rest of us.
Joni was fantastic! Of course her career was less dimensional than Bob's.
Did Bob snub her along the way? Perhaps but who knows the source for her bitterness?
Joni was all over the RTR tour. Why?
She was borrowing Bob's energy and fame maybe?
Joni Mitchell hasn't done herself any favors regarding these lousy accusations. accusations
dylan is a showman in show business, a creative fabricator of dreams visions a magpie. jonie is a diaryist a much more narrow frame of reference she is neither epic nor symbolist, she spins in, bob spins out. history will out.
Jealousy. Dylan never plagiarized.
If any of this is at all true, he should be credited with inspiring young and old to be more curious about literature.🤔
Pot calling the kettle black.
I think she was jealous of Leonard Cohen too!
Joni Mitchell had NOTHING to be jealous about. One of the greatest songwriters of all time and without the arrogance that Dylan always showed.
She jealous of Cohen and dylan..very bitter
@@AndrewHindley Anyone who wrote the album "Blue" has no reason to be jealous of anyone. An album every one should hear at least once.
@@LindaHuff-n9x Absolutely true - she has no reason to be jealous. But (apparently) she is. I prefer Ladies of the Canyon, but I know it's not as highly rated. Also Hissing is great.
Oh, our human strong need to paint everything and everybody in either black or white! Isn't there a description between prophet and plaganist? Dylan never claimed that he wasn't influenced by other artists, and he never said he is a prophet. A few times, he said that he was a poet. Most of the time, he said "I'm a sing and dance man". We can pull apart anybody if we want to find mistakes. Even Joni Mitchell (who's music and poetry I also love!)).
Horrible hit job that detracts more from the author than the subject.
Love Joni but cant agree with her on this one. Dylan represents something bigger than himself, why he was an icon, he gave a voice to the tramp and the wino and the clown, who had a voice that no one wanted to hear. He gave a voice to help african americans in a crucial time in our history when everyone else was too afraid to speak. Dylan isnt just an opportunist, he is an icon who had huge cultural impact because he reflected alot of what people were feeling but could not put into words, same thing with John Lennon and Kurt Cobain for example.
Unless one hs a specific melodic example i have no idea what Mitchel is talking blues's Dylans 115th blues dream talking positively...4 th.
Rappers sample on every song, this has been happening for years, singers have been borrowing melodies for 100s of years
Dylan is the most important artist on the planet, just look how he shaped popular culture music for 7 decades
There is only one genius here and it isn't Joni Mitchell.
She's so full of crap! She doesn't like Coltrane. A legendary jazz man
I can't comment on the so-called "storm" as this whole accusation was a revelation to me, and I don't follow the world of music. But I ask these so-called critics, what exactly does that pivotal term "originality" really mean? Are we not all influenced by othes, by what we read, hear and listen to? It would seem that to be totally original one would almost have to live in a vacuum. Did anyone have his unique delivery, unusually long and self-reflective lyrics, iconic style,etc. And if he took themes or even actual lyrics from obscure and long forgotten sources, who else had the ethos to put it into a modern zeitgeist that resonated with a whole generation? Believe me, I'M NOT a long term fan of Dylan, I view his personal life as a sad failure, and only enjoyed/listened to his music for the few youthful years I was caught up in the counter-culture, but something tells me this is just a tempest in a tea pot, stirred by petty invectives of people who never achieved his success and are just plain jealous of the longevity of his career .
Joni- you stole colors red, orange green etc - didnt you??? People say beware…He has done more for civil rights than you can ever dream of. Ask Mingus. Bitterness wears a weary face.
I actually didn't hear anything in this that was clearly damning and likely more the result of people that didn't like Dylan and spent a lot of time trying to make a case. Everybody borrows thoughts of others. As far as Mitchell, she was clearly talented but for one or two songs, left me very much unspellbounded. I certainly wonder if his spectacular rise was enabled by Jewish nepotism in New York and his spectacular upgrade in his skills also makes one wonder if there was some sort of Deep State effort to create a super star at this particular hour time, very much in harmony with the civil rights movement of which his "going electric" was him getting fed up with the expectation. No hard evidence though and till we get some, I say, let it ride!