I love Bob and Joni. It’s personal. I don’t need to compare and contrast. Both gifted, mysterious and special. Thanks, both of you. It’s been an absolute pleasure!! X
@Matt Roberts Thanks I do too. To be honest though, I saw a post years ago from someone with this username and I decided I would use it also . If you also want to adopt it you have my blessing!
Dylan brings me to dark, swampy, muddy places; Joni brings me to snowflakes sparkling and swirling and dancing in the sun, the joy of existence, the magic of being alive. I don't care how "good" anyone is at anything. I care where they bring me.
Listen to Nashville skyline by Dylan and you'd change Ur mind I think , really up beat nice country and his voice is great , alot different to what you'd expect 🙂✌️
As everyone knows, talent isn’t just about how technically proficient the artist is. One thing that amazes me is the writers ability to pull an original song, words and melody etc from thin air and to make it exist for the rest of us to enjoy!
I love the way she exposes the stupidity of many so called "intellectuals", especially when they work for the media. Someone who states that Joni is "unauthentic" is indeed someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word "authentic" and doesn't know anything about Joni's life work. She has the right to call him an a.....e.
There are entertainers, performers, musicians and rock stars. Dylan is a poet, a social commentator, an artist. His genius is not in his guitar or his voice but in his words. He's a song writer. In my opinion, one of the best.
I think nobody really wants to see a ranking of song writers but it's hard to argue that at least lyrically Dylan is unsurpassed. Dylan doesn't even have a particular lyrical style. He masters all styles. He has so many tricks up his sleeve that you can spend a repertoire yourself on copying them. Another thing Dylan has (besides an obvious lack of finesse in his voice or guitar) is delivery. His phrasing is unparalleled too. He creates emotion through poetic rhythm. However, in terms of linking smart or sensitive lyrics with unorthodox yet appealing music, Joni wins ;)
Hey hang on there: BD has produced some gorgeous sounding tracks both vocally & sonically: ‘Lay Lady Lay’ & ‘Just Like A Woman’ come to mind instantly!
Joni Mitchell has written some of the greatest Jazz lyrics in her album Mingus, and brought an incredible jazz vocalist interpretation to those great Charlie Mingus songs. She and Tom Scott were an incredible jazz team on several albums, most notably Miles of Aisles. She had many albums that most casual listeners have never listened to that are incredibly original and thoroughly enjoyable. Most people think of her early folkie stuff and have no clue what a great original artist she has been since then. Listen to Hejira or The Hissing of Summer Lawns, with the great bassist Jaco Pastorius, and then come back when you know who you're talking about.
Joni's synergy with Jaco was amazing! "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" to me is one of her all-time greatest recordings, and so few fans ever mention it, which is weird, because it's also one of her most covered songs.
I have loved Bob Dylan since I was 14 years old and he covered a lot of artists’ work and Woodie Guthrie songs. Guthrie was Dylan’s hero. He sat at his bedside practically daily while he was an older man in the hospital. Dylan lived with lots and lots of people because he was young and broke. These people had large record collections and huge amounts of books. Dylan had all day to read and he has told this to us. He listened to the oldest recorded music ever put on vinyl and took all that in. He had a definite affinity toward the early folk music and came out as one. Did his singing anywhere they’d have him. He became an original based on prior work. They booed and booed when he went to the electrical guitar and he didn’t care. Every Dylan concert I’ve been to has been vastly different. He followed his own path. Now Joni Mitchell is VERY original!!!! I had her albums when I was young too. I do not sense any copying of anyone. She taught herself guitar in a rural setting. You are going to be original when you do that. Dylan admits to imitating his idol and singing Guthrie songs. Mitchell admits nothing like that. She was rare. We had other female folk singers but Joni is her own thing, person. A true original. Most musicians admit to who they were copying; for example The Rolling Stones. David Bowie claims to have nicked (stolen) his inspiration and has said he can copy any voice. But I love Bowie and I give him more credit than he gives himself. The different personas he developed were extremely individual and had not been done before, not ever. Because he studied as a mime and wanted to be an artist he was trained in “expression” and admits it a lot. Joni wasn’t trained and mimicked no one. She broke a mold. It is not often that anyone has an original thought. It’s rare. She is rare. She is lovely. And she is that great combination of artist and musician. Respect originality.
@@imaonarseal the Mingus album was an artistic collaboration between Charles Mingus and Joni Mitchell, and it was Mingus who requested to meet with her to work on what would turn out to be his last songs.
People can debate on who's the best songwriter till they become blue in the face. I had grerat admiration for both Bob & Joni and these songwriter have given the world the best music they wrote to high aclaim no matter what folks say. Joni was born a artist and her body of work will forever be timeless along with Dylan as well. Their music will forever last and live eternally.
She does and she sounds like a very intelligent person who wants to get her point of view across. Unfortunately I don't like her singing, her music or her albums.
She's right that Bob turned to craft to re-invigorate himself, 1987 he had a crisis whereby he almost quit. Had to turn back to advice he got from Lonnie Johnson about musical theory to re-start the engines. Thank god he did!
She uses the word "musically" before she lists Dylan's weaknesses. She's not criticizing his art, but his technical skills, ie, guitar playing and voice. And Dylan HAS created this character that he hides behind. Joni criticizes everyone. Would you rather have her be dishonest? I think she comes out with things like this because she is incapable of lying. You don't want her to talk about Dylan, then don't ask her. I like both Dylan and Joni. It IS possible to like both, you know.
As great and lovable as Joni is, she still doesn't get Bob. He is as elusive to her has his lyrics are to the rest of us. Its not Bob's voice and guitar playing that matter so much, or we would be looking for a hybrid cross of Tommy Emmanuel and Mario Lanza. And he is not trapped in the 60s with his hobo attire and Woody Guthrie voice. He is a cinematic experience, shifting form from one reel to the next, a perceptive living organism who invented a name and hit the highway like one one of those minstrel players he sings about.
Huh? Why waste my time with this 'he's so deep you just don't get him' crap. You want to know about a, talent that Re-imagined himself, read Jame dean:the mutant king. I just saw him in east of eden last night, and he makes it look so easy, like falling off a, log.
@Jim Matlock cool you he isn’t for you then. In other words you dont get him. But thats fine. I bet there are a load of great artists that you love, but I dont get.
What's love got to do with it? He WA called a n 'organism' - - - look, I like my cinematic e perience to recognize my life form, not a paramecia that eats bacteria for breakfast. Not a cup of tea to try to read Tarantula.
What I hear in this interview is that she’s standing up for Bob… “that comment was taken completely out of context”… “that was journalistic bullsh*t”, lol. She shares at the end that it wasn’t his vocals or even really his guitar-playing style that was particularly special, which I would agree to- but bet she would’ve noted if the interviewer stayed on the topic of Dylan longer that it really was his lyrics in so many of his songs that were jaw-dropping in their imagination, honesty or authenticity. He started out copying others’ styles, yeah, but couldn’t contain that original talent/intelligence that was uniquely him. His lyrics were the thing that stood out & just wowed everyone. The poetry & imagery of Tambourine Man and of It’s Alright Ma, I’m Only Bleeding that goes on & on…. the irony, humor & even kind of early rapping ?!? of Subterranean Homesick Blues…. that’s why Bobby Zimmerman was unique. Love Joni. And I can tell she respects Bob, but is simply noticing differences in their original approaches when young. I hear her saying it’s an artist thing, & corrupt or un-informed interviewers (not this guy) wouldn’t understand….
@@jimmatlock7348 Ok. Bob Dylan completely changed the face of modern music years before anyone had even heard of Joni Mitchell. The Beatles would have still been playing "Yeah Yeah Yeah" had it not been for Dylan. US politics were changed by Dylan. The Byrds went electric because of Dylan. Jimi Hendrix had a major hit covering Dylan. Every songwriter after Dylan stole from his approach. Dylan's influence was so enormous it defies the imagination. All because of his MUSICAL songwriting genius. Yeah, Joni was great, but Joni didn't change music like Dylan did. She lives in his shadow and she knows it. She let her narcissistic veil slip in this interview and it's a really bad look for her.
04mscentrum: Tragic that this interviewer lost his way, his job, and yet-HERE had the gift of a Mitchell interview--in her home, so rare.Human beings, flawed, here a TALENT, thrown away. God Bless Joni.....so candid here, eccentricities and all.
She has a right to be pissed about being misrepresented in the newspaper article. Yet another example of how you can't trust a reporter to just give you the facts.
Joni is like Miles, Coltrane, Sinatra, etc She can get away with being an over opinionated blowhard, that's one of the reason I love her! Her songwriting and musical talent is WAY off the charts! She's in the top 1 percent of all time great poets and songwriters period!
I don’t think she’d appreciate being called over opinionated Bc she was ASKED A QUESTION. She hates interviews and barely ever does them, and then when she finally gets convinced to and gets asked ABOUT ARTISTS IMITATING, she’s OVER OPINIONATED for answering
If I was so unfamiliar with famed singers' discographies, I'd keep quieter. She has two album of the year Grammys and many others that have been best-sellers.
Bob stills has that poetry in him. Like his song I’ve made up my mind to give myself to you that reminded me a bit of his bringing it all back home album. Bob himself said in an interview with 60 minutes that his early songs were magically written and he knew he couldn’t write like that anymore. He used the lyrics of it’s alright ma as an example and challenged somebody sit down and write something like that. Bob even said it didn’t entirely disappoint him that he couldn’t write that way anymore because you can’t do something forever.
I have often thought that Dylan's voice was perfect accompaniment for his lyrics. If he had a sweet melodic voice or a " danceable beat" like on AB then the poetry wouldn't have the same impact or power. There are plenty of acts that are covered in gold and thousand dollar suits singing " I who have nothing". And he has written the greatest love songs ever.Tangled up in blue, Baby blue, It ain't me babe, Desolation row, Lay lay lady lay, Queen Jane Approx., It takes a lot to laugh....,Girl from the north country,I want you, Sad eyed lady of the lowlands, Just like a woman etc brilliant simply brilliant A GENIUS.!!
Lol I read her interview and wondered why she hated Bob so much and now I'm watching this and I absolutely love her and how much she hates interviewers cause they really do misconstrue to get headlines
There was nothing misconstrued. Joni is out of her mind. Bob Dylan completely changed the face of modern music years before anyone had even heard of Joni Mitchell. The Beatles would have still been playing "Yeah Yeah Yeah" had it not been for Dylan. US politics were changed by Dylan. The Byrds went electric because of Dylan. Jimi Hendrix had a major hit covering Dylan. Dylan's influence was so enormous it defies the imagination. All because of his MUSICAL songwriting genius. Yeah, Joni was great, but Joni didn't change music like Dylan did. She lives in his shadow and she knows it. She let her narcissistic veil slip in this interview and it's a really bad look for her.
Great artists steal. Dylan is one of the greatest artists of the 20thc. I don't give a shit whose voice he borrowed or how he moved from Elvis and Little Richard to Leadbelly and Guthrie and back and forward. He wrote Mr Tambourine Man and Love Minus Zero and Blind Willie. His work speaks for itself.
funny how her telling the truth makes some people so defensive. the comments here show exactly what she says about being misunderstood. she's famously verbal and that is courageous.
+David Mayhew maybe, but she is an artistic lightweight/lyricist compared to Dylan, I like her stuff but she is not even in his league, people are not being defensive as much as truthful
Are you serious..... Join's musical talent is classical....her knowledge of music and poetry unmatched. But do we absolutely love Dylan songs, of course! She does not sound bitter at all...just hard to communicate to morons.
Not jealousy. Annoyance at being compared to anyone. Affirmative on Crosby. One of our national treasures. My favorite rhythm guitarist. Wind on the Waters. He and Nash nailed that one in the opening choral section. Stunning.
Joni has nothing to defend. Her body of work is an ample defence against the "pedestrian quality" of much of the music that came after her. Musicians and music fans alike realize what a phenomenal talent she is! Man..this guy is a jerk!
She's misquoted and misunderstood, and mostly because she's honest. Whatever you make of her, you can't deny she's an artist, in the core sense of that word, and also a great performer. I have a huge problem with her hippy politics, but I love the lady's extraordinary abilities. A genius, actually, though she'd deny it.
+universalsailor At least she's not a Feminazi. She could have gone that way but saw the whole Gloria Steinem man hating thing for what it was. She said she knew the card carrying members of that club in the folk scene and the politicos and said strait up they are man haters. As far as hippie women from that era, she's not too bad lol.
@@TruNordics14 she has said she is a feminist in that women are as good as men and should be equal. But, she has never been a man hater. As far as "hippie politics" are concerned, Joni Mitchell has never been that political in her lyrics. Her songs are more about relationships. But, she does throw in a bit of commentary in a song now and then.
@@alcarusojr3040 Bob Dylan is no musician. His music means little. But his words were like poetry according to Joan Baez who was with him in the Village at his beginning
Here's my thoughts on this for what it's worth and for any that care. Even if Bob Dylan 'stole' material or ideas or a persona or whatever, his abilities and insight at reading the times still outweigh much of the criticism levied against him. He was a lightning rod for the times and changed everything after him. Had he not been that, there would be no Joni Mitchell. Bob Dylan has said many times that he just wanted to do his thing and people ended up taking him too seriously for his own liking. He resonated a bit too much. He enjoyed the attention but found it also absurd. Dylan also said that he can't write the way he did back when. May be true but his songwriting still isn't bad. His singing voice, today, well that's another story altogether. Joni Mitchell, talented as she is, came from a lack of experience which gave her the originality she enjoyed. It was in not knowing how to do it but having the will to express her eccentric self that made her really stand out as an artist. She's original but flaky too. Those things often go together with artists. For the most part I enjoy her take on things artistically but she takes her own originality too seriously as well and often ends up making a creative mess out of it. Joni is being a little dishonest when she talks about persona. She is after all in show business and all performance has a bit of theater. All performers are actors, even street performers, waiters, customer service people, sales people and politicians. There's a lot of opportunities to 'act' a part. Many great musicians have used a persona or a mask to deliver their work. Elton John, David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Lou Reed, etc. She's being a little underhanded here whether she knows it or not. She hasn't remained as popular over the decades while Dylan's legend grows larger than, in her eyes, maybe it should. I don't think either idea sits well with her. I think that's evident.
Right on! Joni can rightly claim to be an original--but she has to admit who the greatest original among postwar songwriters was. She is the opposite of Dylan in that she reveals a single soul, while he approaches form many directions, adopting many (dis)guises along the way.
Bob Dylan was a phony who pretended to not want to be ogled over for using stolen content. Someone who really made music and didn’t care about being recognized is someone like Karen Dalton. People who don’t care about attention, generally don’t get that much.
I've been noticing that interviewers and journalists liv under the expectation to create a tension, a controversy, something that is supposedly worth checking out because it is contentious. If I was around a Joni or Dylan I'd think that they would do well (better) in the absence of me directing the conversation with a list of questions or an agenda. I'd rather hear a Joni or a Dylan respond to an open ended question like "what are a few of your favourite things" ? or whatever... maybe no question ... just engage, person to person and wait for the words to flow. It's not important to breakdown artists to their list of qualities, original, virtuoso, great lyricist. Joni touching on her internal process about a painting influenced approach is indeed interesting... but it's her inner workings... I'd argue that what is more important is her final work - the expression that she in the end projects in the final product. And comparing it to Dylan or anybody is to break it down analyze it... but, great music is always more than the sum of its components, and while I love hearing the artists talk freely I like hearing their songs with my eyes and ears not through a consrtucted portal
It's really sad that this interviewer wasted as much as a brief moment bating her and pitting contention between her and another artist. I agree with you. She would be so interesting to listen to answer an open ended question about her process / inspiration or just her day to day interests
It's funny she would question his musical ability. I mean as the story goes Mitchell's 'Blue' was what instigated Dylan to fiddle with open tunings, and it just so happened that he ended up recording an entire album in open E. and that record: Blood on the Tracks, is perhaps the most genuinely moving/heartrending collection of songs ever committed to tape... And his voice, I must add, is what carries all the emotional force and evokes the poignancy or whatever it is. because... ''Any fool can think, and most can write; delivering those thoughts intact to another mind, another consciousness, is the extraordinary talent'' and that there is the reason why Dylan is a genius and a class apart.
Well, it's very subjective. How doesn't Joni's music touch Dylan's? If you are talking about the music only, the experience while listening to the albums, the voice, lyrics, etc. and not necessarily the influence (which Joni of course has too)? But it's maybe only their influence that make them, and others, able to compare? I love both, and they won't be forgotten. When it comes to looking back, I would rather see someone more unknown be discovered, like some writers and artists from before.
Wherever would you get the idea that things didn't work out for Joni Mitchell?? 8 Grammys, 7 more nominations, inducted into Rock & Rol Hall of Fame; her music enthusiastically covered by other famed singers, Rolling Stone ranked "Both Sides, Now" #171 on its 500 Greatest Songs of All Time.etc. etc. Not to mention acclaim for painting and poetry, beatiful homes in Bel Air and Half Moon Bay, BC. Ya, things really have gone bad for her!
A complete folk Goddess,saying it ,as it,.is!..An honest reaction to the questions asked....Bow low to this lady..she will never be replaced..but will leave her legacy of fantastic songs for the future generations of folk to look up too, and admire..:)
I don't know what was in response to me, but I never implied that Joni "put down" anyone. I just see a pattern in her "later period" interviews where seems to be willing to point out weaknesses in other musicians, the music industry, today's music, etc., in a context that leaves herself looking somehow superior and protected from the same kind of criticism. The poem on her website proudly proclaims that she "spews the truth". Well what she spews is Joni's truth, not always the actual truth.
A box where he puts small scraps of paper with lines that come to his mind. Then later he takes out some of these pieces and arranges them to create a whole song.
@nightridehome - you say Dylan WAS a mediocre musician? It is 2020 and the Legend is releasing it a new album of original work. I have seen Bob Live 5 times, twice at the Albert Hall, he is not and never will be mediocre. He changed the world and the world of music. Listen to Time out of mind and tell me that album is mediocre.
Truth be told: Joni wasn't even half the songwriter that Dylan was, and she was always jealous of Bob because of that. She knew it, he knew it, and she couldn't stand that fact.
Dunno why she's insecure, her talents were immense. Maybe it's still hard to accept that it's over. She was great for a decade or so, and that's a LONG time for a songwriter. The thing about Mitchell is, she had the whole package: fantastic lyrics, original guitar style, beguiling melodies, BRILLIANT voice, good looks...none of the other great singer-writers of her (or any other) era were so completely gifted. So she can poke a hole in just about anybody else, if she wants to...
Good looks???????? She is one of the most ugly ladies ever created! She could not even win a beauty contest at a horse show! Maybe you got the clap from her because you are raving mad.
One important aspect of artistic "genius" is the ability and willingness to adapt, evolve, develop. Joni has that in spades. Based on her folk-hippie songs (can't think of a better term) of the late 60s, all beautiful, who would have anticipated the amazing, jazzy essays of the 90's and beyond? Those are complex, subtle, tender hymns. Dylan benefited from timing and his own NYC coffee house ambition, but that's not to minimize the genius of songs that endure and cover so well. I like both.
Joni is just giving her honest opinion on certain facets of Dylan's style.I appreciate that honesty. I think they are both brilliant song writers but I wouldn't hesitate to give Bob the edge as far as that goes.Conversely Joni is a brilliant guitarist whose open tuning technique is highly regarded in the guitar world.Bob on the other hand has a rather simplistic technique and so in this regard Joni definitely has the edge.Having said all of this-it really doesn't matter.They're both genius'.
Anyone offended by what she said isn't getting what she's saying. She said she liked a lot of his songs, but he wasn't a good musician and his persona was borrowed. That's not an insult; not being a good musician wasn't a limitation for him, and his use of a different public persona doesn't invalidate his effect.
+epiphany difference Would you say that me saying that 2+2=3 is just a 'different point of view' from everyone else? I'll be sure to tell my math professor that I never got any wrong answers on my exams, my incorrect answers were just different point of views. XD
I read the comments here, many of which are, frankly, bizarre and ridiculous and all I can think of is of some of the finest albums of the 70s like Blood On The Tracks, For The Roses, Desire, Court And Spark etc. We'd all be better off listening to wonderful songs like Simple Twist Of Fate, Woman Of Heart And Mind, Shelter From The Storm, Electricity, Hurricane, Song For Sharon, Sarah. It's a long list. Do yourselves a favour and listen!
Speak for yourself. You sound like an old lady moralizing when you say, "We'd all be better off listening to wonderful songs like Simple Twist Of Fate... " Why don't you add, "And we all need to learn from Dickens after that and look into our own hearts and try to be a little kinder this Christmas..." yada, yada...
Joni is great, but Bob is a genius. The only man who invented a culture. As Jerry García said: " Dylan has written songs that touch the mind to places that nobody had come."
"At midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out and round up everyone that knows more than they do. They bring them to the factory and the heart attack machine is strapped across his shoulders and then the kerosene" From Desolation Row. No other songwriter wrote anything so terrifying and vivid.
Joni is a genius. Undebatable. Joni is a better songwriter and artist, and both of their contemporaries not only WOULD agree with me, but they HAVE. Ask Crosby.
@@theminotaurs she wasn’t talking about his poetry, she’s talking about his voice, style and how he presents himself in his music verses how he really is. Whether y’all like bob more or not is irrelevant, her point still stands. You cannot find even the slightest example EVER of Joni not being the same person inside and outside of music. You can’t say the same for bob dylan, and y’all need to show some respect and accept maybe the person who TOURED with him and knew him personally, has a better idea of what she’s talking about then you who probably quite literally didn’t exist yet.
I'm glad she go the chance to explain her previously attributed comments about Bob. I never thought she'd say something so harsh and degrading about him,and I can absolutely believe she was misquoted and/or taken out of context by a journalist trying to create controversy and notoriety. She basically says what Bob has said before: that he borrows from his influences in the folk tradition and adds to it, whether that be his voice, his writing style, and the words he uses so magically.
Bob is the greatest songwriter ever. Joni has a handfull of great songs. You won’t catch Bob doing interviews passing negative judgement on Joni (or any other great songwriter). He does’nt need to - He knows where he stands in the pack !
wow I am so glad J cleared this up about Bob Dylan I was just floored when I read what they wrote about Bob D I like Dylan s songs he is so cute as an older man and so timid I think the Fragile part makes him more enduring now and better looking something gentle
The reasons that Dylan is careful, even secretive about himself, his music, his thoughts, his life is showcased here with JM. Dylan protects himself by being evasive and mysterious, because he knows the price of fame is too a high a cost for anyone. JM, because she does not have Dylan's 60+ years of being mysterious and hard to figure out, seems a bit confused and bitter. JM is a huge talent, but she needs more of Dylan's control of her media image to protect her image and herself. Dylan learned that early in his career.
Bitter? To me, it's more like passionate -- good for her for passionately standing up for herself, for correcting the wrong done her by ignorant interviewers, & for clearly stating not liking being set-up, taken out of context & misquoted. Nobody I know likes that from anyone. Love her 'certainly not by someone whose IQ is somewhere between their shoe size & the distance between their ankle & their knee.' Lol. I don't blame her one bit, but to label her biitter? That's your opinion...but Why, because she's not all lollipops & roses, & calls a spade a spade? C'mon. Real? Definitely. And, maybe I missed it, but where was the confusion? Goddess forbid that she took a breath to think how she wanted to respond. She seems refreshingly clear as daylight to me. 🙏🏿🙌
Thanks Norman I'm glad you read this and hopefully these debates of good songwriters shpuld end all of them gave us good music that will cherish our lives forever.
I do love Joni, but she's not seriously saying that Paul Simon (who came to the fore long before she did) was imitating her? And trying to reduce Dylan to his guitar-playing and his voice is like trying to reduce her to open tunings and good cheekbones. Kind of love her putdown of the LA Times hack, though.
Tempest is the thirty-fifth studio album by American singer-songwriter Bob Dylan, released on September 10, 2012 by Columbia Records. The album was recorded at Jackson Browne's Groove Masters Studios in Santa Monica, California. Tempest was very well received by contemporary music critics, who praised its traditional music influences and Dylan's dark lyrics.
I absolutely respect this fearless woman and everything she has to say. She doesn't hate Bob at all in fact she probably respects him more than anyone else but she's also not going to jive the interviewer with cheap sentiment and fake praise.She nails Dylan down exactly.Bob DOES take on a character to write and basically concocted a whole fake history to build a mystique around himself. He admits as much. It's who he is and how he creates the amazing work that he does. It's part of his whole PROCESS. Look it up.
Joni wasn't all that original when she started, just another folkie with a lovely voice. But 1970 onward her music was quite original to the point you could hear it and say "That's a Joni Mitchell song." Her unique guitar tunings and chord phrasings on piano are integral to that. Bob's still genius IMO. He takes the past and reinvents it better than anyone else ever has. And like Joni says puts on a character. He's the ultimate interpreter of old Americana. A gifted shape shifter of old styles.
Pure originality just doesn't exist. If something like that comes out, most people will not recognize it, and chances are that it will fade away without getting noticed. At best, artists will pick up available elements and take them somewhere, but still in a recognizable form. Joni is one of them. And I think Bob too.
The first time I heard Joni was "Court and Spark" and I felt her melodies and chords were otherworldly. Bob Dylan was influenced by Joni's "Blue"...."Tangled Up in Blue" and the whole of Blood On the Tracks. She has it right when she depicts most musicians imitating their heroes. All the comments here seek to express that Dylan is better but miss the point. He gets loads of credit. Joni is a worthy equal and doesn't really get much credit. She really had to fight to stay in the business
Joni could do anything Bob could do on any level.....his work ethic and drive for fame and recognition is stronger than hers....the interviewer took the emphasis off of HER..TO TALK ABOUT BOB....she fell for one of the oldest tricks in the book...the few comments I have read reflects the level people are on...I thought she was going to discuss their personal relationship instead of a discussion of her opinion about his undeniable talent ....JONI...is a unique being...truly....her art is undeniable....
Bob Dylan's music is simplistic campfire music on par with she's comin' round the mountain when she comes. Joni has successfully melded her music with bonifide jazz musicians. Dylan is played at every guitar meetup and open mic around the country because it's easy to play. 3 or 4 chords and you've got a Dylan song. Joni's material is complex and sophisticated.
David, that's the best comparison I've heard about Bob's songs. You're right. His music is like "Comin' around the mountain when she comes." LOL. Or even "Hot crust buns." He's a musical dolt.
No one is singing Jokerman, or Simple Twist of Fate, or Sweetheart Like You, or Postively 4th Street, or Like a Rolling Stone around a campfire. You don't like Dylan, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But when you denigrate one of the greatest, if not the greatest songwriter in recent musical history, a man who has influenced, among others, John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, Jimi Hendrix, George Harrison, Tom Petty,Eric Clapton,Jamie Robbie Robertson, and the list goes on and on, then you're the one who ends up sounding like a musical dolt. To quote from a song"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Idiotic.
I don't think anyone is saying that Dylan is a great musician, most great songwriters aren't, and most of the classically great songs are not complicated musically. Bridge Over Troubled Water, Imagine, Blowing in the Wind,Something, Hallelujah, all songs which will span generations, are not musically intricate. I have to chuckle at your statement "his lack of musicality gives me hope" Gives you hope for what? That someday you will write some of the greatest songs in the history of modern music, and influence a multitude of up and coming musical artists? You're right, I can go into any local bar here in New Haven on any given night and find a roomful of musicians who can play their instrument better than Dylan. But you would have to scour the country to find a better poet/songwriter. Leonard Cohen and Bruce Springsteen... I love Joni Mitchell and she has composed some great music, but, in this video, she sounds like a bitter old woman who hasn't been relevant in years, and that's too bad.
Anthony Salvati Anthony, great poets stick to literature. Bob was neither a great poet or musician. For whatever reason, people love mediocrity and they flock to it. Look at most musicians or artists today - mediocre. None of them are as prolific as Mozart.
It's pretty laughable how vigorously Dylan's fans will defend him, even against the most tepid of criticisms. Does it ever occur to you that Joni knows him personally and therefore has opinions of him that go beyond what you know of him as fans? Most of these legends from the 60s/70s knew each other and probably like/dislike each other for reasons that, as fans, we'll never be privy to.
Bob slept with her and dismissed her a few times, specially later in life he was not nice. She spoke marvels of him throughout her life but now spews vile his way since then. Wonder why?
What a hypocrite. All art is borrowed. What makes a great artist, like Dylan, is taking all of those inspirations and goosebump moments as a child and fusing it in to something of his own. Thats exactly what that man did. Better than any one else I've seen do it. And i'll be goddamned if I hear some one else try and degrade that. What are we supposed to do? Re-create the universe and make the first song? Impossible. Aspiration comes from inspiration, plain and simple. Im gonna go listen to 'Blood on the Tracks" now
She's not a hypocrite, what she's saying is true.. Most art is stolen and Dylan is the master of this.. And so were the Beatles and many other artists... But that doesn't mean it's any less art or any less good... I mean come one if you really know Dylan and Mitchell you know he's the master of stealing and she's a purist... But there's nothing wrong with stealing, we all do it subconsciously and some do it consciously.. The problem is people imitating others... Picasso said it best: Good artists borrow, great artists steal. And some, like Joni, try to do neither...
Nice touch quoting Picasso. However, most art is learned by copying/emulating until the artist develops their own 'style.' Dylan copied/emulated Guthrie. Joni Mitchell had her own voice and a variety of tunings, and her lyrics represented things she saw and felt; much concerning her own love life. What modern singer is like Joni Mitchell? Tracy Chapman comes to mind, but she had her own edge. Both Chapman and Mitchell expressed their world; what they saw they related in song so we could share the ideas and the feelings. And they did it artfully and with style.
I don't know how old you are but you must be under 60. I say that because if you had been around in 1964 and followed what Lennon and McCartney did to the music world then you would know just how original their music was. Why do you think classical composers were making statement like the Beatles were the greatest composers since Beethoven! Bob Dylan copies the style of Woody G. but soon created a new dynamic to both the folk world and the rock world. All three are without a doubt the greatest song writers in the last 70 years. What amazing talents they were.
Bobby I don't mean to disrespect your feelings about the guy and his music ( if he has any music of his own) but if you look into the guy.... everything including his name is a rip-off. Look into the facts about the guy and your opinion might change.
Disagree. Jian Ghomeshi is one of very good interviewers in my view. I miss his show actually. Good interviews should have tough questions to allow the interviewees to show different sides of them. Jian is being very respectful here, even threw a lighthearted and important question like "how am I doing?" You know Joni Mitchell is a very wise and highly accomplished legend, so not very easy to interview.
Joni Mitchell was working with different tunings and with Jazz musicians. Her music had a sophistication that Dylan's heartfelt backwoods music did not. Neil Young and Tom Petty are sort of cut from the same cloth. Basic chords and an accessible sound that we ordinary folks can relate to and play with minor proficency. Joni Mitchell is indeed high art and learned musicians will concur.
You don't have to have remarkable voice ,if you have things to say,people listen. Singing has nothing to do with popularity. It's the persona that shines through,that is what people see and appreciate.
Also while Joni is responsible for her comments about others, I'd prefer for a forum which encourages her to focus on HERSELF, and not steer a now woman into a mental sparing dialogue with herself.. she was always very welll spoken and directed the conversation to things that mattered to her (which is always a good thing for the one who is being interviewed to aim for). Hearing her scoff at a great fellow artist like Paul Simon was not the well thought out Joni I love... more a rambling moment when she let herself (at an older age) get steered intowhat I think is not her most meaningful moment
The wonderful thing about those sixties writers was the way they evolved gradually from naivety to sophistication.These days you come armed with ready made references,bathe in the the limelight and then fizzle out after a couple of albums.I think Joni is every bit as good as Dylan,incidentally,and probably more accomplished.
i don't think dylan would disagree with a word she said. he's always acknowledging wearing a mask and having long periods in which he's just being a craftsman writing his next batch of songs. and yes he's not a great guitar player. Anyone who says he's not a great singer, however, doesn't know anything about singing, or music. His phrasing can be as expressive as a good jazz sax solo.
Joni hot for herself and transcends bitterness, at being just above average..Janis Ian outshone her, Janis was far more talented musically, lyrically and vocally...What is Joni smoking?? Dylan can play Piano exceptionally well also Guitar, also wrote bundles of mind blowing songs..Also he sings to clearly articulate rather than to focus on vocal artistry, as his songs make hers look like a hippie preschooler...Joni's peak was "Big yellow Taxi" and some ok other tracks, most of her work runs off the same melodies..lol...She did say this, it was recorded and if it was false it would have been retracted...“Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception.” - Roberta Joan Mitchell...>Ms Idiot Wind
It would be interesting to hear her answers to some follow up questions so you and I could truly "know" what she meant. She also said that she wasn't sure if she "succeeded" in the "pile up those many words" approach to songwriting. We also don't know if at some point Simon told her (or someone else) that he was inspired by her. If so, her comment was nothing but commentary, not arrogance. Again, confidence is often mistaken for arrogance.
I love Bob and Joni. It’s personal. I don’t need to compare and contrast. Both gifted, mysterious and special. Thanks, both of you. It’s been an absolute pleasure!! X
I don't care what character Bob Dylan is playing. All I know is he made a lot of really great songs!
@Matt Roberts Thanks I do too. To be honest though, I saw a post years ago from someone with this username and I decided I would use it also
. If you also want to adopt it you have my blessing!
Dylan brings me to dark, swampy, muddy places; Joni brings me to snowflakes sparkling and swirling and dancing in the sun, the joy of existence, the magic of being alive. I don't care how "good" anyone is at anything. I care where they bring me.
Agreed. I can appreciate technical ability but if there's no soul, forget it. But Joni? Well, she's got it all!
Listen to Nashville skyline by Dylan and you'd change Ur mind I think , really up beat nice country and his voice is great , alot different to what you'd expect 🙂✌️
@@benhayes5683 love that album. It was the first Dylan album i listened to.
@@sharonsmith2771 it's magical to say the least ahha 😝
Hence Dylan is the superior song writer.
As everyone knows, talent isn’t just about how technically proficient the artist is. One thing that amazes me is the writers ability to pull an original song, words and melody etc from thin air and to make it exist for the rest of us to enjoy!
I love the way she exposes the stupidity of many so called "intellectuals", especially when they work for the media. Someone who states that Joni is "unauthentic" is indeed someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word "authentic" and doesn't know anything about Joni's life work. She has the right to call him an a.....e.
Should be "inauthentic."
@@klausrain111 wise ! Newt time I'll just say "not authentic"
There are entertainers, performers, musicians and rock stars. Dylan is a poet, a social commentator, an artist. His genius is not in his guitar or his voice but in his words. He's a song writer. In my opinion, one of the best.
I agree he wrote a number of memorable songs
I think nobody really wants to see a ranking of song writers but it's hard to argue that at least lyrically Dylan is unsurpassed. Dylan doesn't even have a particular lyrical style. He masters all styles. He has so many tricks up his sleeve that you can spend a repertoire yourself on copying them.
Another thing Dylan has (besides an obvious lack of finesse in his voice or guitar) is delivery. His phrasing is unparalleled too. He creates emotion through poetic rhythm.
However, in terms of linking smart or sensitive lyrics with unorthodox yet appealing music, Joni wins ;)
i loved it!
I would argue that there is genius in his voice. Everybody knows it. Even with the worst Bob Dylan impression it's easy to tell who it is.
Hey hang on there: BD has produced some gorgeous sounding tracks both vocally & sonically: ‘Lay Lady Lay’ & ‘Just Like A Woman’ come to mind instantly!
She's brilliant, authentic and sharp And original. And bares her soul. God bless you, Joni, and thank you.
BOB IS A GREAT GUITARIST , I'VE SEEN IT FIRST HAND
Joni Mitchell has written some of the greatest Jazz lyrics in her album Mingus, and brought an incredible jazz vocalist interpretation to those great Charlie Mingus songs. She and Tom Scott were an incredible jazz team on several albums, most notably Miles of Aisles. She had many albums that most casual listeners have never listened to that are incredibly original and thoroughly enjoyable. Most people think of her early folkie stuff and have no clue what a great original artist she has been since then. Listen to Hejira or The Hissing of Summer Lawns, with the great bassist Jaco Pastorius, and then come back when you know who you're talking about.
Joni's synergy with Jaco was amazing! "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" to me is one of her all-time greatest recordings, and so few fans ever mention it, which is weird, because it's also one of her most covered songs.
I’m glad to get the Dylan thing cleared up
I have loved Bob Dylan since I was 14 years old and he covered a lot of artists’ work and Woodie Guthrie songs. Guthrie was Dylan’s hero. He sat at his bedside practically daily while he was an older man in the hospital. Dylan lived with lots and lots of people because he was young and broke. These people had large record collections and huge amounts of books. Dylan had all day to read and he has told this to us. He listened to the oldest recorded music ever put on vinyl and took all that in. He had a definite affinity toward the early folk music and came out as one. Did his singing anywhere they’d have him. He became an original based on prior work. They booed and booed when he went to the electrical guitar and he didn’t care. Every Dylan concert I’ve been to has been vastly different. He followed his own path. Now Joni Mitchell is VERY original!!!! I had her albums when I was young too. I do not sense any copying of anyone. She taught herself guitar in a rural setting. You are going to be original when you do that. Dylan admits to imitating his idol and singing Guthrie songs. Mitchell admits nothing like that. She was rare. We had other female folk singers but Joni is her own thing, person. A true original. Most musicians admit to who they were copying; for example The Rolling Stones. David Bowie claims to have nicked (stolen) his inspiration and has said he can copy any voice. But I love Bowie and I give him more credit than he gives himself. The different personas he developed were extremely individual and had not been done before, not ever. Because he studied as a mime and wanted to be an artist he was trained in “expression” and admits it a lot. Joni wasn’t trained and mimicked no one. She broke a mold. It is not often that anyone has an original thought. It’s rare. She is rare. She is lovely. And she is that great combination of artist and musician. Respect originality.
@Stig Weard his comment is longer than the interview.
Come on, Joni loved jazz. She called one of her albums after her heroe, Mingus.
@@imaonarseal the Mingus album was an artistic collaboration between Charles Mingus and Joni Mitchell, and it was Mingus who requested to meet with her to work on what would turn out to be his last songs.
People can debate on who's the best songwriter till they become blue in the face. I had grerat admiration for both Bob & Joni and these songwriter have given the world the best music they wrote to high aclaim no matter what folks say. Joni was born a artist and her body of work will forever be timeless along with Dylan as well. Their music will forever last and live eternally.
She is cool but she is not in Dylans league!!! Not even close.
@@sharonsmith2771 fair enough.
Joni speaks honestly and she is a free spirit and an immensely gifted artist
She does and she sounds like a very intelligent person who wants to get her point of view across. Unfortunately I don't like her singing, her music or her albums.
Ms Idiot Wind> Roberta Joan Mitchell .....She transcends bitterness.....Janis Ian, a far greater talent..
She's right that Bob turned to craft to re-invigorate himself, 1987 he had a crisis whereby he almost quit. Had to turn back to advice he got from Lonnie Johnson about musical theory to re-start the engines. Thank god he did!
She uses the word "musically" before she lists Dylan's weaknesses. She's not criticizing his art, but his technical skills, ie, guitar playing and voice. And Dylan HAS created this character that he hides behind.
Joni criticizes everyone. Would you rather have her be dishonest? I think she comes out with things like this because she is incapable of lying. You don't want her to talk about Dylan, then don't ask her.
I like both Dylan and Joni.
It IS possible to like both, you know.
As great and lovable as Joni is, she still doesn't get Bob. He is as elusive to her has his lyrics are to the rest of us. Its not Bob's voice and guitar playing that matter so much, or we would be looking for a hybrid cross of Tommy Emmanuel and Mario Lanza. And he is not trapped in the 60s with his hobo attire and Woody Guthrie voice. He is a cinematic experience, shifting form from one reel to the next, a perceptive living organism who invented a name and hit the highway like one one of those minstrel players he sings about.
Huh? Why waste my time with this 'he's so deep you just don't get him' crap. You want to know about a, talent that Re-imagined himself, read Jame dean:the mutant king. I just saw him in east of eden last night, and he makes it look so easy, like falling off a, log.
@Jim Matlock cool you he isn’t for you then. In other words you dont get him. But thats fine. I bet there are a load of great artists that you love, but I dont get.
What's love got to do with it? He WA called a n 'organism' - - - look, I like my cinematic e perience to recognize my life form, not a paramecia that eats bacteria for breakfast. Not a cup of tea to try to read Tarantula.
What I hear in this interview is that she’s standing up for Bob… “that comment was taken completely out of context”… “that was journalistic bullsh*t”, lol.
She shares at the end that it wasn’t his vocals or even really his guitar-playing style that was particularly special, which I would agree to- but bet she would’ve noted if the interviewer stayed on the topic of Dylan longer that it really was his lyrics in so many of his songs that were jaw-dropping in their imagination, honesty or authenticity. He started out copying others’ styles, yeah, but couldn’t contain that original talent/intelligence that was uniquely him. His lyrics were the thing that stood out & just wowed everyone. The poetry & imagery of Tambourine Man and of It’s Alright Ma, I’m Only Bleeding that goes on & on…. the irony, humor & even kind of early rapping ?!? of Subterranean Homesick Blues…. that’s why Bobby Zimmerman was unique. Love Joni. And I can tell she respects Bob, but is simply noticing differences in their original approaches when young. I hear her saying it’s an artist thing, & corrupt or un-informed interviewers (not this guy) wouldn’t understand….
@@jimmatlock7348 Ok. Bob Dylan completely changed the face of modern music years before anyone had even heard of Joni Mitchell. The Beatles would have still been playing "Yeah Yeah Yeah" had it not been for Dylan. US politics were changed by Dylan. The Byrds went electric because of Dylan. Jimi Hendrix had a major hit covering Dylan. Every songwriter after Dylan stole from his approach. Dylan's influence was so enormous it defies the imagination. All because of his MUSICAL songwriting genius. Yeah, Joni was great, but Joni didn't change music like Dylan did. She lives in his shadow and she knows it. She let her narcissistic veil slip in this interview and it's a really bad look for her.
Joni is so cool. Great artist - in paint and sound.
You should see Bob Dylan's artwork..He is very talented in both painting and welding. He is truly gifted.
04mscentrum: Tragic that this interviewer lost his way, his job, and yet-HERE
had the gift of a Mitchell interview--in her home, so rare.Human beings, flawed,
here a TALENT, thrown away. God Bless Joni.....so candid here, eccentricities and all.
She has a right to be pissed about being misrepresented in the newspaper article. Yet another example of how you can't trust a reporter to just give you the facts.
Joni is like Miles, Coltrane, Sinatra, etc She can get away with being an over opinionated blowhard, that's one of the reason I love her! Her songwriting and musical talent is WAY off the charts! She's in the top 1 percent of all time great poets and songwriters period!
I don’t think she’d appreciate being called over opinionated Bc she was ASKED A QUESTION. She hates interviews and barely ever does them, and then when she finally gets convinced to and gets asked ABOUT ARTISTS IMITATING, she’s OVER OPINIONATED for answering
Sinatra was a great singer but he was not a songwriter, composer, or improviser.
If I was so unfamiliar with famed singers' discographies, I'd keep quieter. She has two album of the year Grammys and many others that have been best-sellers.
Bob stills has that poetry in him. Like his song I’ve made up my mind to give myself to you that reminded me a bit of his bringing it all back home album. Bob himself said in an interview with 60 minutes that his early songs were magically written and he knew he couldn’t write like that anymore. He used the lyrics of it’s alright ma as an example and challenged somebody sit down and write something like that. Bob even said it didn’t entirely disappoint him that he couldn’t write that way anymore because you can’t do something forever.
Frankly, she said:'' I like a lot of Bob Dylan's songs''.
I have often thought that Dylan's voice was perfect accompaniment for his lyrics. If he had a sweet melodic voice or a " danceable beat" like on AB then the poetry wouldn't have the same impact or power. There are plenty of acts that are covered in gold and thousand dollar suits singing " I who have nothing". And he has written the greatest love songs ever.Tangled up in blue, Baby blue, It ain't me babe, Desolation row, Lay lay lady lay, Queen Jane Approx., It takes a lot to laugh....,Girl from the north country,I want you, Sad eyed lady of the lowlands, Just like a woman etc brilliant simply brilliant A GENIUS.!!
LovdDylans voice and guitar playing
Lol I read her interview and wondered why she hated Bob so much and now I'm watching this and I absolutely love her and how much she hates interviewers cause they really do misconstrue to get headlines
Don't really think she hates anybody. Exasperation maybe, but not hatred.
There was nothing misconstrued. Joni is out of her mind. Bob Dylan completely changed the face of modern music years before anyone had even heard of Joni Mitchell. The Beatles would have still been playing "Yeah Yeah Yeah" had it not been for Dylan. US politics were changed by Dylan. The Byrds went electric because of Dylan. Jimi Hendrix had a major hit covering Dylan. Dylan's influence was so enormous it defies the imagination. All because of his MUSICAL songwriting genius. Yeah, Joni was great, but Joni didn't change music like Dylan did. She lives in his shadow and she knows it. She let her narcissistic veil slip in this interview and it's a really bad look for her.
Two geniuses. I love the both. But Joni is sort of oddly becoming my personal hero. She's one of the truest music artists there ever was or is.
Great artists steal. Dylan is one of the greatest artists of the 20thc. I don't give a shit whose voice he borrowed or how he moved from Elvis and Little Richard to Leadbelly and Guthrie and back and forward. He wrote Mr Tambourine Man and Love Minus Zero and Blind Willie. His work speaks for itself.
She is awesome. Who care what they borrowed . Bob is great too. Its all just music
funny how her telling the truth makes some people so defensive. the comments here show exactly what she says about being misunderstood. she's famously verbal and that is courageous.
+David Mayhew maybe, but she is an artistic lightweight/lyricist compared to Dylan, I like her stuff but she is not even in his league, people are not being defensive as much as truthful
Are you serious..... Join's musical talent is classical....her knowledge of music and poetry unmatched. But do we absolutely love Dylan songs, of course! She does not sound bitter at all...just hard to communicate to morons.
+David Mayhew Anyone can be "famously verbal." All it requires is narcissism, self indulgence and a lack of discretion.
Cinaet Scott Why are you so negative? She's so right on! Somebody has got to come up to the plate. She does. And intelligently!
Others would say she is classless and bitter and Jealous.
Not jealousy. Annoyance at being compared to anyone. Affirmative on Crosby. One of our national treasures. My favorite rhythm guitarist. Wind on the Waters. He and Nash nailed that one in the opening choral section. Stunning.
The ghost of electricity howls in the bones of her face
jesus, that was perfect
Don't forget jewels and binoculars which hang from the head of her mule..
Ain’t it just like the night to play tricks while you’re trying to be so quiet?
😂😂😂😂😂
Live Free Or die you’re making yourself look a fool. Joni is a master
Joni has nothing to defend. Her body of work is an ample defence against the "pedestrian quality" of much of the music that came after her. Musicians and music fans alike realize what a phenomenal talent she is! Man..this guy is a jerk!
aweF0Am innerEnvy0n theShhh.awL0wGreen,"inTheBrrr.Aking&Brrr.EaThin0f 'theWaterWeeds"...
Funny, I thought he was quite respectful. Maybe you didn’t see the entire interview. This was but a few minutes of it.
She's misquoted and misunderstood, and mostly because she's honest. Whatever you make of her, you can't deny she's an artist, in the core sense of that word, and also a great performer. I have a huge problem with her hippy politics, but I love the lady's extraordinary abilities. A genius, actually, though she'd deny it.
+universalsailor At least she's not a Feminazi. She could have gone that way but saw the whole Gloria Steinem man hating thing for what it was. She said she knew the card carrying members of that club in the folk scene and the politicos and said strait up they are man haters. As far as hippie women from that era, she's not too bad lol.
@@TruNordics14 she has said she is a feminist in that women are as good as men and should be equal. But, she has never been a man hater. As far as "hippie politics" are concerned, Joni Mitchell has never been that political in her lyrics. Her songs are more about relationships. But, she does throw in a bit of commentary in a song now and then.
She's brilliant. She even imitated Dylan's voice. But he started as a gifted poet who put his poetry to music.
Bob Dylan was always a Musician Jim Morrison was a poet
@@alcarusojr3040 Bob Dylan is no musician. His music means little. But his words were like poetry according to Joan Baez who was with him in the Village at his beginning
I am not a expert on Bob Dylan I do know a little He always wanted to be in a Band he did covers and Evolved just like everyone else Beatles included
,Bob Dylan was always in a Band since he was a teenager long before he was a Great poet read about his Beginning everyone Evolves
@@alcarusojr3040 But he was good at being a poet
Here's my thoughts on this for what it's worth and for any that care.
Even if Bob Dylan 'stole' material or ideas or a persona or whatever, his abilities and insight at reading the times still outweigh much of the criticism levied against him. He was a lightning rod for the times and changed everything after him. Had he not been that, there would be no Joni Mitchell.
Bob Dylan has said many times that he just wanted to do his thing and people ended up taking him too seriously for his own liking. He resonated a bit too much. He enjoyed the attention but found it also absurd.
Dylan also said that he can't write the way he did back when. May be true but his songwriting still isn't bad. His singing voice, today, well that's another story altogether.
Joni Mitchell, talented as she is, came from a lack of experience which gave her the originality she enjoyed. It was in not knowing how to do it but having the will to express her eccentric self that made her really stand out as an artist. She's original but flaky too. Those things often go together with artists. For the most part I enjoy her take on things artistically but she takes her own originality too seriously as well and often ends up making a creative mess out of it.
Joni is being a little dishonest when she talks about persona. She is after all in show business and all performance has a bit of theater. All performers are actors, even street performers, waiters, customer service people, sales people and politicians. There's a lot of opportunities to 'act' a part.
Many great musicians have used a persona or a mask to deliver their work. Elton John, David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Lou Reed, etc.
She's being a little underhanded here whether she knows it or not. She hasn't remained as popular over the decades while Dylan's legend grows larger than, in her eyes, maybe it should. I don't think either idea sits well with her. I think that's evident.
+Drea CN A very astute comment!
+Drea CN Wow. Very perceptive, and extremely well articulated. I must concur.
Drea CN chuck Berry was the beginning of Dylan for song writing so did the beach boys steel Gordon Lightfoot is original
Right on! Joni can rightly claim to be an original--but she has to admit who the greatest original among postwar songwriters was. She is the opposite of Dylan in that she reveals a single soul, while he approaches form many directions, adopting many (dis)guises along the way.
Bob Dylan was a phony who pretended to not want to be ogled over for using stolen content.
Someone who really made music and didn’t care about being recognized is someone like Karen Dalton. People who don’t care about attention, generally don’t get that much.
I've been noticing that interviewers and journalists liv under the expectation to create a tension, a controversy, something that is supposedly worth checking out because it is contentious. If I was around a Joni or Dylan I'd think that they would do well (better) in the absence of me directing the conversation with a list of questions or an agenda. I'd rather hear a Joni or a Dylan respond to an open ended question like "what are a few of your favourite things" ? or whatever... maybe no question ... just engage, person to person and wait for the words to flow.
It's not important to breakdown artists to their list of qualities, original, virtuoso, great lyricist. Joni touching on her internal process about a painting influenced approach is indeed interesting... but it's her inner workings... I'd argue that what is more important is her final work - the expression that she in the end projects in the final product. And comparing it to Dylan or anybody is to break it down analyze it... but, great music is always more than the sum of its components, and while I love hearing the artists talk freely I like hearing their songs with my eyes and ears not through a consrtucted portal
Ernie Tollar
Yep, it's really irritating and makes you want to turn off their mic!
It's really sad that this interviewer wasted as much as a brief moment bating her and pitting contention between her and another artist. I agree with you. She would be so interesting to listen to answer an open ended question about her process / inspiration or just her day to day interests
Joni Mitchell is wonderful
I enjoyed this interview immensely.
It's funny she would question his musical ability. I mean as the story goes Mitchell's 'Blue' was what instigated Dylan to fiddle with open tunings, and it just so happened that he ended up recording an entire album in open E. and that record: Blood on the Tracks, is perhaps the most genuinely moving/heartrending collection of songs ever committed to tape... And his voice, I must add, is what carries all the emotional force and evokes the poignancy or whatever it is.
because... ''Any fool can think, and most can write; delivering those thoughts intact to another mind, another consciousness, is the extraordinary talent'' and that there is the reason why Dylan is a genius and a class apart.
Could not have been put better than that
Well, it's very subjective. How doesn't Joni's music touch Dylan's? If you are talking about the music only, the experience while listening to the albums, the voice, lyrics, etc. and not necessarily the influence (which Joni of course has too)? But it's maybe only their influence that make them, and others, able to compare? I love both, and they won't be forgotten. When it comes to looking back, I would rather see someone more unknown be discovered, like some writers and artists from before.
I respect her more now than ever, her intelligence, integrity, and personality shine through.
Wherever would you get the idea that things didn't work out for Joni Mitchell?? 8 Grammys, 7 more nominations, inducted into Rock & Rol Hall of Fame; her music enthusiastically covered by other famed singers, Rolling Stone ranked "Both Sides, Now" #171 on its 500 Greatest Songs of All Time.etc. etc. Not to mention acclaim for painting and poetry, beatiful homes in Bel Air and Half Moon Bay, BC. Ya, things really have gone bad for her!
A complete folk Goddess,saying it ,as it,.is!..An honest reaction to the questions asked....Bow low to this lady..she will never be replaced..but will leave her legacy of fantastic songs for the future generations of folk to look up too, and admire..:)
I don't know what was in response to me, but I never implied that Joni "put down" anyone. I just see a pattern in her "later period" interviews where seems to be willing to point out weaknesses in other musicians, the music industry, today's music, etc., in a context that leaves herself looking somehow superior and protected from the same kind of criticism. The poem on her website proudly proclaims that she "spews the truth". Well what she spews is Joni's truth, not always the actual truth.
one of the few people who's critique of Dylan is worthy of being heard - I love it
"sometimes I wish I could have had that character" a la Bob - cool
Didn't get her point there on Paul Simon at 0:40. He tried to imitate Joni's style, is that what she's saying?
Starting @ 04:14, Sounds like a Dylan dig to me. Whatever Joni, Dylan's music will be remembered more than yours will be to future generations.
"The box" for songwriting? What was she referring to?
A box where he puts small scraps of paper with lines that come to his mind. Then later he takes out some of these pieces and arranges them to create a whole song.
@@karlmehltretter2677 thanks
Listen to "It's Alright Ma I'm Only Bleeding" and tell me Dylan isn't a very good guitar player.
@nightridehome - you say Dylan WAS a mediocre musician? It is 2020 and the Legend is releasing it a new album of original work. I have seen Bob Live 5 times, twice at the Albert Hall, he is not and never will be mediocre. He changed the world and the world of music. Listen to Time out of mind and tell me that album is mediocre.
@nightridehome - you must be Canadian.
@nightridehome - I love Joni's music but you are an ignorant fool.
Why compare two artists that are unique..? Super Dumb!
@@michaelcelani8325 Super dumb! Yes!
Truth be told: Joni wasn't even half the songwriter that Dylan was, and she was always jealous of Bob because of that. She knew it, he knew it, and she couldn't stand that fact.
😂😂😂😂 yeah she really wanted to write "Quinn the Eskimo"
Dunno why she's insecure, her talents were immense. Maybe it's still hard to accept that it's over. She was great for a decade or so, and that's a LONG time for a songwriter. The thing about Mitchell is, she had the whole package: fantastic lyrics, original guitar style, beguiling melodies, BRILLIANT voice, good looks...none of the other great singer-writers of her (or any other) era were so completely gifted. So she can poke a hole in just about anybody else, if she wants to...
Good looks???????? She is one of the most ugly ladies ever created! She could not even win a beauty contest at a horse show! Maybe you got the clap from her because you are raving mad.
she's not insecure.... youre one of those interviewers she's speaking of. taking everything out of context. she is obviously very secure in herself
@@thomaselliott573 you have a distorted reality of what beauty looks like. To talk about someone that way is gross.
@@lvrgrl8472 but true. She was a girl with a chip on her shoulder. Eternally depressed and looking for someone to blame it on.
@@thomaselliott573 Ok, she was not hideous; I mean she wasnt stunning either but she looks average.
One important aspect of artistic "genius" is the ability and willingness to adapt, evolve, develop. Joni has that in spades. Based on her folk-hippie songs (can't think of a better term) of the late 60s, all beautiful, who would have anticipated the amazing, jazzy essays of the 90's and beyond? Those are complex, subtle, tender hymns. Dylan benefited from timing and his own NYC coffee house ambition, but that's not to minimize the genius of songs that endure and cover so well. I like both.
2:17 "That's journalistic bull****" God I love Joni!
Joni is just giving her honest opinion on certain facets of Dylan's style.I appreciate that honesty.
I think they are both brilliant song writers but I wouldn't hesitate to give Bob the edge as far as that goes.Conversely Joni is a brilliant guitarist whose open tuning technique is highly regarded in the guitar world.Bob on the other hand has a rather simplistic technique and so in this regard Joni definitely has the edge.Having said all of this-it really doesn't matter.They're both genius'.
Anyone offended by what she said isn't getting what she's saying. She said she liked a lot of his songs, but he wasn't a good musician and his persona was borrowed. That's not an insult; not being a good musician wasn't a limitation for him, and his use of a different public persona doesn't invalidate his effect.
epiphany difference
What constitutes genius is subjective; to say that an individual must align themselves with one's point of view is totalitarian.
+epiphany difference Would you say that me saying that 2+2=3 is just a 'different point of view' from everyone else? I'll be sure to tell my math professor that I never got any wrong answers on my exams, my incorrect answers were just different point of views. XD
Cedric Conti what does that mean, "borrowed?"
@Scott Reed Have you ever seen or heard Woody Guthrie?
@Lord Elpus - wait, so Woody came first in the spotlight before Dylan did? please answer I'm curious.
Good old Joni. Best thing about us ordinary homely folks is when we git old it don't matter.
Mozart didn't copy Bach nor could he escape him.
She is wonderful🙂
I read the comments here, many of which are, frankly, bizarre and ridiculous and all I can think of is of some of the finest albums of the 70s like Blood On The Tracks, For The Roses, Desire, Court And Spark etc. We'd all be better off listening to wonderful songs like Simple Twist Of Fate, Woman Of Heart And Mind, Shelter From The Storm, Electricity, Hurricane, Song For Sharon, Sarah. It's a long list. Do yourselves a favour and listen!
Speak for yourself. You sound like an old lady moralizing when you say, "We'd all be better off listening to wonderful songs like Simple Twist Of Fate... " Why don't you add, "And we all need to learn from Dickens after that and look into our own hearts and try to be a little kinder this Christmas..." yada, yada...
I will always love that woman!
Joni is great, but Bob is a genius. The only man who invented a culture. As Jerry García said: " Dylan has written songs that touch the mind to places that nobody had come."
"At midnight all the agents
and the superhuman crew
come out and round up everyone
that knows more than they do.
They bring them to the factory
and the heart attack machine
is strapped across his shoulders
and then the kerosene"
From Desolation Row. No other songwriter wrote anything so terrifying and vivid.
Joni is a genius. Undebatable. Joni is a better songwriter and artist, and both of their contemporaries not only WOULD agree with me, but they HAVE. Ask Crosby.
@@theminotaurs she wasn’t talking about his poetry, she’s talking about his voice, style and how he presents himself in his music verses how he really is. Whether y’all like bob more or not is irrelevant, her point still stands. You cannot find even the slightest example EVER of Joni not being the same person inside and outside of music. You can’t say the same for bob dylan, and y’all need to show some respect and accept maybe the person who TOURED with him and knew him personally, has a better idea of what she’s talking about then you who probably quite literally didn’t exist yet.
I'm glad she go the chance to explain her previously attributed comments about Bob. I never thought she'd say something so harsh and degrading about him,and I can absolutely believe she was misquoted and/or taken out of context by a journalist trying to create controversy and notoriety. She basically says what Bob has said before: that he borrows from his influences in the folk tradition and adds to it, whether that be his voice, his writing style, and the words he uses so magically.
Bob is the greatest songwriter ever. Joni has a handfull of great songs. You won’t catch Bob doing interviews passing negative judgement on Joni (or any other great songwriter). He does’nt need to - He knows where he stands in the pack !
wow I am so glad J cleared this up about Bob Dylan I was just floored when I read what they wrote about Bob D
I like Dylan s songs he is so cute as an older man and so timid
I think the Fragile part makes him more enduring now and better looking
something gentle
Gorgeous when she mimics him "Sometimes I wish I could have that character". Two greats.
Glad I watched this on this fine morning
The reasons that Dylan is careful, even secretive about himself, his music, his thoughts, his life is showcased here with JM. Dylan protects himself by being evasive and mysterious, because he knows the price of fame is too a high a cost for anyone. JM, because she does not have Dylan's 60+ years of being mysterious and hard to figure out, seems a bit confused and bitter. JM is a huge talent, but she needs more of Dylan's control of her media image to protect her image and herself. Dylan learned that early in his career.
Bitter? To me, it's more like passionate -- good for her for passionately standing up for herself, for correcting the wrong done her by ignorant interviewers, & for clearly stating not liking being set-up, taken out of context & misquoted. Nobody I know likes that from anyone. Love her 'certainly not by someone whose IQ is somewhere between their shoe size & the distance between their ankle & their knee.' Lol. I don't blame her one bit, but to label her biitter? That's your opinion...but Why, because she's not all lollipops & roses, & calls a spade a spade? C'mon. Real? Definitely. And, maybe I missed it, but where was the confusion? Goddess forbid that she took a breath to think how she wanted to respond. She seems refreshingly clear as daylight to me. 🙏🏿🙌
If she spits out so many petty insults at the ignorance of a hack journalist I can believe she has some bitterness she needs to share.
Thanks Norman I'm glad you read this and hopefully these debates of good songwriters shpuld end all of them gave us good music that will cherish our lives forever.
I do love Joni, but she's not seriously saying that Paul Simon (who came to the fore long before she did) was imitating her? And trying to reduce Dylan to his guitar-playing and his voice is like trying to reduce her to open tunings and good cheekbones.
Kind of love her putdown of the LA Times hack, though.
Tempest is the thirty-fifth studio album by American singer-songwriter Bob Dylan, released on September 10, 2012 by Columbia Records. The album was recorded at Jackson Browne's Groove Masters Studios in Santa Monica, California. Tempest was very well received by contemporary music critics, who praised its traditional music influences and Dylan's dark lyrics.
At 50 years and counting, we have Van, Bruce, Neil, Leonard and had Cash and Ray Charles.
who is she?
I absolutely respect this fearless woman and everything she has to say. She doesn't hate Bob at all in fact she probably respects him more than anyone else but she's also not going to jive the interviewer with cheap sentiment and fake praise.She nails Dylan down exactly.Bob DOES take on a character to write and basically concocted a whole fake history to build a mystique around himself. He admits as much. It's who he is and how he creates the amazing work that he does. It's part of his whole PROCESS. Look it up.
0:55 sounds ?
Joni wasn't all that original when she started, just another folkie with a lovely voice. But 1970 onward her music was quite original to the point you could hear it and say "That's a Joni Mitchell song." Her unique guitar tunings and chord phrasings on piano are integral to that. Bob's still genius IMO. He takes the past and reinvents it better than anyone else ever has. And like Joni says puts on a character. He's the ultimate interpreter of old Americana. A gifted shape shifter of old styles.
She was always a genius, from her early starts in 1963 and onwards. In anything she did, folkie or not, she elevated herself above others.
Pure originality just doesn't exist. If something like that comes out, most people will not recognize it, and chances are that it will fade away without getting noticed. At best, artists will pick up available elements and take them somewhere, but still in a recognizable form. Joni is one of them. And I think Bob too.
The first time I heard Joni was "Court and Spark" and I felt her melodies and chords were otherworldly. Bob Dylan was influenced by Joni's "Blue"...."Tangled Up in Blue" and the whole of Blood On the Tracks.
She has it right when she depicts most musicians
imitating their heroes. All the comments here seek to express that Dylan is better but miss the point. He gets loads of credit. Joni is a worthy equal and doesn't really get much credit. She really had to fight to stay in the business
Joni could do anything Bob could do on any level.....his work ethic and drive for fame and recognition is stronger than hers....the interviewer took the emphasis off of HER..TO TALK ABOUT BOB....she fell for one of the oldest tricks in the book...the few comments I have read reflects the level people are on...I thought she was going to discuss their personal relationship instead of a discussion of her opinion about his undeniable talent ....JONI...is a unique being...truly....her art is undeniable....
Bob Dylan's music is simplistic campfire music on par with she's comin' round the mountain when she comes. Joni has successfully melded her music with bonifide jazz musicians. Dylan is played at every guitar meetup and open mic around the country because it's easy to play. 3 or 4 chords and you've got a Dylan song. Joni's material is complex and sophisticated.
David, that's the best comparison I've heard about Bob's songs. You're right. His music is like "Comin' around the mountain when she comes." LOL. Or even "Hot crust buns." He's a musical dolt.
No one is singing Jokerman, or Simple Twist of Fate, or Sweetheart Like You, or Postively 4th Street, or Like a Rolling Stone around a campfire. You don't like Dylan, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But when you denigrate one of the greatest, if not the greatest songwriter in recent musical history, a man who has influenced, among others, John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, Jimi Hendrix, George Harrison, Tom Petty,Eric Clapton,Jamie Robbie Robertson, and the list goes on and on, then you're the one who ends up sounding like a musical dolt. To quote from a song"Don't criticize what you can't understand"
Idiotic.
Anthony Salvati I love Dylan but his lack of musicality gives me hope....
I don't think anyone is saying that Dylan is a great musician, most great songwriters aren't, and most of the classically great songs are not complicated musically. Bridge Over Troubled Water, Imagine, Blowing in the Wind,Something, Hallelujah, all songs which will span generations, are not musically intricate. I have to chuckle at your statement "his lack of musicality gives me hope"
Gives you hope for what?
That someday you will write some of the greatest songs in the history of modern music, and influence a multitude of up and coming musical artists?
You're right, I can go into any local bar here in New Haven on any given night and find a roomful of musicians who can play their instrument better than Dylan.
But you would have to scour the country to find a better poet/songwriter.
Leonard Cohen and Bruce Springsteen...
I love Joni Mitchell and she has composed some great music, but, in this video, she sounds like a bitter old woman who hasn't been relevant in years, and that's too bad.
Anthony Salvati Anthony, great poets stick to literature. Bob was neither a great poet or musician. For whatever reason, people love mediocrity and they flock to it. Look at most musicians or artists today - mediocre. None of them are as prolific as Mozart.
sorry, does not diminish the fact that she is an incredible song writer, musician and singer and may be the second greatest poet if the 20th century
It's pretty laughable how vigorously Dylan's fans will defend him, even against the most tepid of criticisms. Does it ever occur to you that Joni knows him personally and therefore has opinions of him that go beyond what you know of him as fans? Most of these legends from the 60s/70s knew each other and probably like/dislike each other for reasons that, as fans, we'll never be privy to.
Bob slept with her and dismissed her a few times, specially later in life he was not nice. She spoke marvels of him throughout her life but now spews vile his way since then. Wonder why?
She said that she has never borrowed and she is an original what's so original about a guitar and a folk song
That cleared up a few things! She's a real muse
What a hypocrite. All art is borrowed. What makes a great artist, like Dylan, is taking all of those inspirations and goosebump moments as a child and fusing it in to something of his own. Thats exactly what that man did. Better than any one else I've seen do it. And i'll be goddamned if I hear some one else try and degrade that.
What are we supposed to do? Re-create the universe and make the first song? Impossible. Aspiration comes from inspiration, plain and simple.
Im gonna go listen to 'Blood on the Tracks" now
She's not a hypocrite, what she's saying is true.. Most art is stolen and Dylan is the master of this.. And so were the Beatles and many other artists... But that doesn't mean it's any less art or any less good... I mean come one if you really know Dylan and Mitchell you know he's the master of stealing and she's a purist... But there's nothing wrong with stealing, we all do it subconsciously and some do it consciously.. The problem is people imitating others... Picasso said it best: Good artists borrow, great artists steal. And some, like Joni, try to do neither...
Nice touch quoting Picasso. However, most art is learned by copying/emulating until the artist develops their own 'style.' Dylan copied/emulated Guthrie. Joni Mitchell had her own voice and a variety of tunings, and her lyrics represented things she saw and felt; much concerning her own love life. What modern singer is like Joni Mitchell? Tracy Chapman comes to mind, but she had her own edge. Both Chapman and Mitchell expressed their world; what they saw they related in song so we could share the ideas and the feelings. And they did it artfully and with style.
I don't know how old you are but you must be under 60. I say that because if you had been around in 1964 and followed what Lennon and McCartney did to the music world then you would know just how original their music was. Why do you think classical composers were making statement like the Beatles were the greatest composers since Beethoven! Bob Dylan copies the style of Woody G. but soon created a new dynamic to both the folk world and the rock world. All three are without a doubt the greatest song writers in the last 70 years. What amazing talents they were.
Bobby I don't mean to disrespect your feelings about the guy and his music ( if he has any music of his own) but if you look into the guy.... everything including his name is a rip-off.
Look into the facts about the guy and your opinion might change.
destroyed by drugs
Joni is wonderfully gifted and original. And so is Dylan. Both with different perspectives on life and music many times.
The interviewer lacks sensitivity and finesse.
That is NOT true !
I think Joni just needs to go an old folks home
Would You do it better ? Joni is one of a kind.
@@ianjohnson3840 You need to go to a bar.
Disagree. Jian Ghomeshi is one of very good interviewers in my view. I miss his show actually.
Good interviews should have tough questions to allow the interviewees to show different sides of them. Jian is being very respectful here, even threw a lighthearted and important question like "how am I doing?"
You know Joni Mitchell is a very wise and highly accomplished legend, so not very easy to interview.
Joni Mitchell was working with different tunings and with Jazz musicians. Her music had a sophistication that Dylan's heartfelt backwoods music did not. Neil Young and Tom Petty are sort of cut from the same cloth. Basic chords and an accessible sound that we ordinary folks can relate to and play with minor proficency. Joni Mitchell is indeed high art and learned musicians will concur.
"Good artists borrow, great artists steal", - Pablo Picasso.
There is nothing new under the sun. Go look for the babylonian ceramics in the Louvre in Paris : maybe Picasso was inspired by them.......
Great interview, I was never a great fan but there's no doubt she's a genius.
I would just love to spend an evening talking with Joni and Bob.. when I say talking with.. i mean shutting up and listening.
You don't have to have remarkable voice ,if you have things to say,people listen. Singing has nothing to do with popularity. It's the persona that shines through,that is what people see and appreciate.
Also while Joni is responsible for her comments about others, I'd prefer for a forum which encourages her to focus on HERSELF, and not steer a now woman into a mental sparing dialogue with herself.. she was always very welll spoken and directed the conversation to things that mattered to her (which is always a good thing for the one who is being interviewed to aim for). Hearing her scoff at a great fellow artist like Paul Simon was not the well thought out Joni I love... more a rambling moment when she let herself (at an older age) get steered intowhat I think is not her most meaningful moment
I love her candor.
Wow! I think Joni and Dylan are both brilliant, despite what she says about Dylan at the end of the video
The wonderful thing about those sixties writers was the way they evolved gradually from naivety to sophistication.These days you come armed with ready made references,bathe in the the limelight and then fizzle out after a couple of albums.I think Joni is every bit as good as Dylan,incidentally,and probably more accomplished.
Actually no. She has no Nobel prize. She does not have his depth or breadth. Just facts.
No one has evolved.more than bob
Joni paints pictures with words ... that's the difference to me !
Ever heard A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall? Tangled Up In Blue? Jokerman? Brownsvillle Girl? Born in Time? Love Sick?
which songs were they, what you say is fantasy
What a bright wonderful lady.
Couldn't agree more
i don't think dylan would disagree with a word she said. he's always acknowledging wearing a mask and having long periods in which he's just being a craftsman writing his next batch of songs. and yes he's not a great guitar player. Anyone who says he's not a great singer, however, doesn't know anything about singing, or music. His phrasing can be as expressive as a good jazz sax solo.
Joni hot for herself and transcends bitterness, at being just above average..Janis Ian outshone her, Janis was far more talented musically, lyrically and vocally...What is Joni smoking?? Dylan can play Piano exceptionally well also Guitar, also wrote bundles of mind blowing songs..Also he sings to clearly articulate rather than to focus on vocal artistry, as his songs make hers look like a hippie preschooler...Joni's peak was "Big yellow Taxi" and some ok other tracks, most of her work runs off the same melodies..lol...She did say this, it was recorded and if it was false it would have been retracted...“Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception.” - Roberta Joan Mitchell...>Ms Idiot Wind
It would be interesting to hear her answers to some follow up questions so you and I could truly "know" what she meant. She also said that she wasn't sure if she "succeeded" in the "pile up those many words" approach to songwriting. We also don't know if at some point Simon told her (or someone else) that he was inspired by her. If so, her comment was nothing but commentary, not arrogance. Again, confidence is often mistaken for arrogance.