Tech Pay-Shop's Need To Adapt to Find Younger Techs
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2024
- Pay Systems DO NOT MATTER!!
• Pay Systems DO NOT MAT...
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After 33 years in the dealership- opened my own shop and take 8 weeks vacation per year.
I work for a national fleet of trucks. We have an employee who is a promising young mechanic that is learning and doing good work so far. He is leaving for a different industry because the pay/ benefits are better. I tried explaining to the boss that this guy is good and we need to do whatever to keep him because he is actually learning and the knowledge isn't just going in one ear and out the other. He has the potential to be a very good mechanic but the fortune 500 company we work for has fixed pay scales per technician grade and my manager says his hands are tied by his boss. Sadly too many fortune 500 companies are being "led" by blind yes men that can't see anything beyond the numbers on their profit and loss report. Now because of higher management's ignorance we are going to be down a guy next week and in my area it is very hard to find experienced, good mechanics or entry level mechanics that are willing to learn. The last "experienced and qualified" guy we hired had years of experience but it was all with bad habits and shortcuts at the cost of quality and I couldn't break those habits. I almost prefer starting with someone like who we are about to lose and teaching them the right way to do something rather than having to un-teach years of bad habits and poor workmanship.
Its correct the younger people myself included are sick of having our pay determined by a lot of factors out of our control. High hourly pay is the future or theyll be no techs. The way cars are going the flat rate system is becoming less and less sustainable. In this economy you need stability and guaranteed high pay or you might as well just go to any other trade where they get paid normally and usually much more than mechanics with much less invested.
The problem is younger people want high pay with little experience. You don't know how many new hires we have had that get fired in a month because, well there just not good. The younger guy wants to get paid what I get paid. But I have twenty years experience and he has non
@jasonsanchez3441 I hear more the more experienced guys ain't get paid enough. So it falls on the younger guys to do more. Even tho, the younger guys are expected to do more. The cost of living goes up and the pay stays the same. So yeah the younger guys want more. I deff. Want my pay check to reflect my work load. If I get slammed, and I'm hourly. Then that sucks. Flat reflects my productivity. Hourly doesn't. So I should get paid more. I should be able to contend with the flat guys, at the bottom line. Allowing flat rate to still be attractive.
@ninjamigs1766 flat rate at our shop for the lowest tech starts at 27. From what I've seen over the years, the younger guys don't continue to train and learn off the clock. I am always learning and growing. But the young guys do want to do it if it's not mandatory.
@@jasonsanchez3441 sure there's people like that but there's ever more that are getting underpaid. The average shop owner is looking to profit off all their employees as much as possible. They rarely care about anyone's finances other than their own.
@@jasonsanchez3441 you are probably very underpaid then. You can't be upset that new techs want to be able to live while learning....
I recently took a slight pay cut going from a traditional flat rate shop to a county fleet shop on hourly pay. My biggest issue with flat rate is the factors that are out of my control that are directly able to affect my pay, aka lazy service writers. I also came back from a week’s vacation with no paycheck unexpectedly, so that made my decisions for me.
Exactly. Flat rate pushes the burden of ebbs and flows in car volume onto the mechanics. Very few industries operate this way. Similar to you, this made the decision for me. I quit being a mechanic and now I get paid much more (with greater benefits).
Lazy service writers or malicious ones that cut the labor hours to sell something.
Exactly, The front of the shop can effect the production just as much as very slow tech. Everyone is quick to blame the tech, but what Ive seen is poor processes up front, not skilled SA or parts guys cause more issues than low producing techs.
yup, cheap ass customers, writers saying “ill get you on the next one”, managers playing with numbers, favoritism yet we still all have to produce 60 hrs? Im glad i left the field, its dying for good reason and it did it to itself
I been pushing for a 4 10 schedule for 2 years now, thats a nice balance for me
Shops will pay for max profit. They don’t care as long as they can find workers.
Shop owners are not made of money! They have to make a profit to pay employees.
At least where I’m at, we find people. We can’t find people who want to work, who don’t show up late all the time, call out once a week. These young kids are lazy. This is not the industry to be in if your lazy
IMO a good hourly rate with a bonus plan based on productivity is a great option meaning after you flag 40 hours ur hourly rate goes up like from 40-45 $2hr 45-50 $4hr
I left the industry 15 years ago after 20 years of being a diesel technician to get into aerospace engineering. Best decision I’ve ever made. Tripled my income and the benefits are outstanding. I’m not in a union position, I’m salary non-exempt meaning I get OT. I don’t need to beat myself up to make a living anymore.
You need to run your own shop, FRM.
I am 30 years old, the youngest in my shop. very experienced in my field (not automotive) but it is mechanical. I moved a few years ago, I applied for a job with good pay, found out it was flat rate, walked away from the job because of it, I was hired on as an hourly employee with a different company and a while ago they said they were changing to a flat rate system due to some other employees riding the clock and wasting the companies time/money and I told them that if my pay changed to flat rate because of other people’s work ethics that I’d quit. Now the other guys are flat rate and I am still hourly and got a significant raise on top of it to ensure I stayed on board. I’m very happy with my current company.
Thanks Mike for sharing that its about the money and life outside of work.
Agree 100% to a tech that wants to leave his work at work and not live in his job. I have been flat rate for 40 years and now being self employed still considered flat rate but owning a shop your flat rate base is at the end of everything being paid and is freedom to some degree but comes with dozens of more hats that have nothing to do with producing income but work that comes with owning a shop.
Another huge problem is so many shops especially the ones around me anyway are not doing any training they’re not advancing anybody in training they’re not sending anybody off to more schooling they just expect you to walk in the door and do I get real frustrated when a business owner doesn’t explain to you how he wants things done. From 1992 about 2005 snap on actually had a nice training facility in our state and they offered all kinds of decent training. Even the parts stores back then had seminars that were actually useful. Haven’t seen much of that in the past 12 years Are also a huge problem I think is with a newer cars. We’re seeing more complicated problems sooner and there’s less good information out there especially on how our system works. I’m so glad to be on the tail end of my career doing the stuff to put things in perspective. The youngest guy in my shop is 33 and he’s planning out.
Pay doesn’t matter you can be paid a lot of money and still be miserable. If you make enough to pay your bills and not pissed off at the end of the day I think that’s the best way. To bad that most companies are just wanting production no matter what.
Shop I'm at lost 2 techs and there's another 2 thinking about leaving cause boss man won't budge on not offering a guarantee. Those who are leaving are some of the young certified techs
That guy will be out of business if he cant manage employees, and make it work to get labor in.
Good, if he's got 4 guys leaving at the same time all over pay, he's clearly paying below market. When i was in management i always paid my guys slightly above market, i always had quality guys and very low turnover. In my experience, it's cheaper that way, otherwise you end up with unreliable fuckups that cost you more than good employees.
Most people forget labor is a marketplace...
The biggest set back for new techs coming in is the pay to tool costs ratio.
I have been priced out of buying new tools.
Last job shop bought all the “special” tools. From what I see now is the current shop owners in this area all just plugging along until retirement.
Many in this area that actually own their property have been selling off the properties for new development. I can leave right now and go get a BS job making the same money. What I do loose is vacation time and 401k contributions.
To many younger techs , when I say young im talking 30-35 are $20k+ in debt to tools with no end in sight. At high % to boot.
Right now I just cant find something else that fits my life, have to pull a 180
I have maybe 10 years max before Im just sick of all the crap. Both mentally and physically.
The problem I have with flat rate is usually they techs are the only ones on flat rate, everyone else gets paid just to be present. No one else has to hustle for a paycheck but yet I'm dependent on them to do their jobs efficiently so I can make money. Well it doesn't work out to my favor pretty much ever. Flat rate can be great but in most shops today with poor management, no accountability for anyone other than the technicians. Flat rate today is unfair.
Worked as a mechanic for 10 years all throughout my 20s when I turned 30 I completely got out of the industry and started doing residential electrical work and after a year I started doing HVAC controls and bending conduit for fire alarm systems in big commercial buildings and now 3 years later I'm a foreman in a small HVAC controls company and I got 2 helpers that were at one time years ago my coworkers at a Mazda dealer where we were all techs at and they are way more happier in this industry than the automotive one
I just turned 23 and I recently left my job of 5 years 3 months ago. I was hourly and now I’m hourly with incentive so, I’m hourly until I hit 35 hours then my pay goes up by $9.50 and o get paid flat rate. And I love flat rate pay, but having the hourly as back up is great for when we’re slow like this week. Been here for 3.5 months and I haven’t hit my tier like 2 weeks only every other week I’m hitting flat rate pay always. I think a system like that really is best of both worlds
I agree 100% , There are multiple ways to pay, at the end of the day, it has to be easy for them to calculate what they are making. I have my shop foreman on a salary, my other guys are different. One wanted hourly, other two wanted flat rate with a 30hr guarantee. No matter how you pay, There has to be checks and balances and making sure they are producing enough, and thats an expectation that should be set up during the hiring process. Pay for adults, who are skilled, and it normally works out with minimal issues.
There are also guys who want stupid money, but cant empty a boot full of water with the directions written on the heel. I am more than happy to pay stupid money if you are good and work hard.
28 years old. Been an A tech for about 5 years. Run away kids. Run far far away. Older techs (like ones in the comments) will get butthurt that you expect a salary that you can survive on. You will spend 10s of thousands of dollars on tools (if you buy cheap). You will destroy your body and nobody will ever dare to pay you what you're worth. Happy with what I've learned. Looking for the door now. Take my advice as a fellow millenial. If you want to be in the trades be a welder or something instead. You'll spend way less on tools and make way more. This industry deserves to die.
I was a technician for 17 years. I would agree with this 100%.
Exactly. All the older mechanics want to talk about how the younger generation doesn't want to work (because they don't like flat rate). My response is that you don't have a guaranteed paycheck on flat rate. I'm sorry you worked your entire career on this BS system, but I'm not doing it.
@@biometal770 no cap dude, and they even worked flat rate when money was actually worth something and 80% of work was customer pay and not the other way around.
I would like to see a break down state by state of techs pay and COL and tools
Flat rate tech podcast guy is compiling a list. Look him up.
A good friend of mine whos and excellent aircraft mechanic got on at kansas city with united started at the bottom of the pay scale 36$ and senority 36$ an hour at bad at the bottom
I have fought with corporate ownership to increase pay since I was promoted to my position years ago and I felt my voice had more influence. Guess what, they don't want to pay equitably based on your specific region and its cost of living. As a manager, I try to get creative with bonuses etc. to make up for the inequity. Their argument has always been "What if all the other techs find out we are paying this person that much?" My argument of cost of living here versus where our other stores are has honestly fallen on deaf ears. Even if you have an employee advocate, there is only so much we can do. It's exhausting. I have been kicking around 4 day weeks to see if I can help with work life balance. If I knew then what I know now, I would have focused on being an expert in a specific trade field with great hourly pay, less hours worked and a lot better benefits.
15 year Master tech here, flat rate only works if the shop is setup, plus to much room for shop abuse. I will only work hourly.
It makes no sense for young guys to go into the industry. Out of all the skilled trades, auto techs have among the highest expenses and among the lowest pay. I have friends who make $45/hr to push a mop, $0 education costs and $0 tool costs. Other friends who make $125k in an air conditioned cab running an excavator. $175k/year as lineman. $200k+ as crane operators in a major city. I make 6 figures working from home playing with software. Thank god i changed my mind about becoming a tech and left my passion for cars/motorcycles as a hobby. Think about it this way...if a dealership is billing $150/hr (which is low in my area, many are $190 now), and a tech only does 40 billable hours per week, and takes 2 weeks vacation, the shop is billing out $300k per tech. What is the average tech making? Maybe $70k while paying a fortune for tools? It doesn't math.
Its MUCH more than 300k because they have parts profit as well. Its probably $500k
you're spot on buddy. The math certainly doesn't work being a mechanic.
You’re right. I’m 70. Fifty years in car repair. No other trade requires you to have that much in tools without an equitable compensation. Too late for me. I made my bed.
Hope the generations under me find a solution or our trade is sunk.
Average tech is making 60. Younger ones probably 30. Complete waste of time
The problem is mechanics have no balls. Everyone needs to stop fucking accepting this shit. Most mechanics are all talk.@@dharley189
Agreed to a point. Young people seem to want experienced-level pay from the get-go. That will never be acceptable.
They don’t want experienced level pay they want pay based in reality. You have a young new generation that in my opinion the ones that really want to work a more professional than the people hiring them. They know what it cost to live in the area they are in they know the cost of tools and they’re looking for pay that backs that up. The young tax I’m talking 30 years old and younger are not going to take a job for 20 25 bucks an hour then buy tools. Then try to live off that they’re smarter than that these days
I know a lube tech who makes 25hr when other shops can’t even pay their mechanics that much. Mechanic are definitely underpaid from the get go.
Remember everyone that reads this, we have the power in unity , most don’t want to unite and make demand , too scared or don’t know that you are being controlled through fear
me a lot guy gets in trouble for turning off car headlights instead of putting them on auto, the customer thought the lights were out, how can someone be that dumb, your lights are not broken, they are just off, turn the switch, I constantly get B****d at over the dumbest things.
Yup 75k and 50 hours a week ain’t worth it
Ha, ha, ha!
My last job paid chicken feed, over worked, added responsibilities for the same pay rate, that's why a high turn over.
SoCal tri-county area...
Rent: $2,850/mo for 2bd-1b fixer.
Gas: $4.70-5.10/gal.
Milk: $3.44/gal (on sale).
Dealership service rate: $175/hr.
Regional min. wage: $16/hr.
Express Service pay: $16-18/hr.
Master flat rate: $30-35/hr.
No snarky observations; just some data points to glean from.
Western Ky.
Gas 2.50-2.80 for awhile.
Your good techs should make $50 plus per hour.
Call a wahmbulance! You'll probably keep voting for democrats.
I’m out of the industry if I’m not getting paid flat rate.
Flat rate was great. Until all these post Covid recalls and all the warranty work from the dip in quality killed it. No matter how much you grind, how many shortcuts you take getting over 40 hours is near impossible. Flat rate, salary and hourly + commission. And my highest productivity was with hourly plus commission
Don’t know where you are at, but my last week was 102hrs. This week tracking for 80hr
im flag with gurantee with a bonus incentive. its cut throat. I work for my bonus till flat rate techs leave. high turnover but my job is stable.
My, units of chicken..... how big are the units? , are they happy chickens, or sad chickens?
I've never known anyone who left the business to ever come back.
Imagine paying your mortgage with chicken units. Poor roosters!
The biggest issue I've seen when it comes to attracting younger techs, is that many of them have unreasonable pay expectations and want to take lots of time off from work. Getting 6 or more weeks of PTO isn't completely unreasonable, but it certainly isn't the norm in this industry. I've seen younger techs ask for 100K/yr while working only 35-40 hours per week during their first few years of employment. Regardless of who your are, I think we can all look back at our first few years in the field and acknowledge that we still had a lot left to learn and weren't worth 100K. I'm not saying you can't make 100K+ in this field, but you aren't doing it with 3 years of experience and 3 ASE certs.
Hourly or not....no Tech or even a general maintenance oil changer should be getting paid less than $20hr in 2024.
If you’re not doing flat rate in a decent shop you’re getting bottom dollar. People are just lazy with the exception of old people.
First
Flat rate at 60% of the door rate could work
Flatrate master... Did you get hired at another shop yet?