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Love this conversation. I’m on a Clinical Psychology doctorate programme and this conversation is so badly needed in the profession, but is absolutely impossible to have
What has happened to our society? Honest discussions about any nuanced topic are becoming less and less frequent it seems. Are the social shaming and the overly irrational and emotional responses to any dissenting voice being repeatedly encouraged by social media? I’m very impressed with these people tackling this topic.
Finished my psyd a few years ago and found that getting into Jon haidt and Steve pinker were helpful to combat the myopic nonsense I was taught/not allowed to question. And critical therapy antidote has some good resources too. Hope that helps, good luck!
You can't even smoke weed until you're 21 (where it's legal), but we're supposed to let 12 take puberty blocker drugs. Something is off with this picture.
Minors get prescribed drugs all the time. Doctors are the ones making these decisions with the help of the parents. The state should have no role in the process.
@@Matt-hq2ew what if the child is gay and the "doctor" recommends conversation therapy to cure the child's gayness? Would that not be the government's business either.
this is hands down the best, most informed, most logical and rational trans discussion i've heard. let's hope there's a coming "contagion" of this type of treatment of the subject. hats off!
@@neilwiththereeldeel if the person in question performs unnecessary cosmetic surgery on children, or prescribes sterilizing hormones to healthy children, then yes, that’s a very legitimate discussion.
@@zimzob Right, but that's not a discussion, that is just the wrong thing to do; to perform unnecessary surgery. You are either male or female, man or woman. Nothing will change that, and especially if you're a kid, you should not be subject to such things. At all. But there is no discussion to be had about it.
This is my big frustration with this topic: the Karolinska Institute is one of the best medical universities in the world. The institute recommended that Sweden stop the medical transition of minors, acknowledging that the unexpected increment of girls identifying as trans remains unexplained and choosing a more cautious approach. Sweden is not in the midst of a toxic culture war, and to me it seems as if medical professionals there are not being swayed by politics/activist groups as they are here in the US. If we fully appreciate the notion that good science is by definition unbiased and apolitical, we should be paying close attention to what is happening in Scandinavia. The irony being that the advocacy groups claiming to be pro-trans are the very same groups also claiming that there is an unquestionable scientific consensus on all trans-related issues. They are the ones interfering with scientific inquiry and-of course-it is those who identify as trans who have the most at stake.
@@ProkofNY Beautifully said. And I wholeheartedly agree. The scientific method is the best means we have of getting to the truth. It should be utterly free of political influence/corruption.
Young adolescent girl: "Hey, I'm a lesbian." Peers: "Meh" Next day, Young adolescent girl: "Hey, I think I am trans." Peers: "oh wow, you are so brave! Tell me more."
You are not understanding the point being made. Many young gay people are being transitioned because being gay is just boring these days. Being Trans is the trendy thing now. Declarations of being Trans are met with love bombing and relentless positive reinforcement. People who change their mind are also often subject to abuse and derision by the online Trans cult.
@@caydenblue it can manifest from sociological environment (as gender is socially constructed right? Its based on sex though), lgbtq postmodern ideology dismisses sociology/socially emergent phenomena and sees it as fake, by this logic gender dysphoria is fake
I am feeling so very proud of you, Coleman, that you decided to further cover this issue after where you last left it with that Australian gender clinic person. I was afraid you’d been met with a rabid activist mob you didn’t expect - and basically chose to acquiesce to the demanded position with that gender doc - then be done with it. It’s obvious you’ve given some deep moral thought and consideration to the complexities, in this realm. You explored the accurate data with Katie - and did so with deep humanity. Thank you. I’m seeing moral courage here, sir.
I'm permanently pissed at Mark Twain for his "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" line. Statistics are not inherently dishonest, they're just a bit tricky to comprehend, UNLESS one has been properly taught in school. And they can easily be abused by using disparate figures for related things, which the news media does all the time, often (I imagine) not even realizing they're being abusive to their own readers.
@@junipershull23skidoo This is what Katie does as well tho. She says kids shouldn’t have puberty blockers, but she isn’t a medical professional. She should let medical professionals make these kinds of decisions
One thing I'd wish liberals would stop stating that gay marriage is settled. It was a Supreme Court decision. The people did not vote that way. It'd be like saying the question of secession is settled because a supreme court ruled is was illegal. A court's ruling is not defining unless the populace agrees with it. You may argue that more people support it based on Pew polls, but don't be surprised if you see a movement to return the issue to states.
SCOTUS didn't create anything new in the same-sex marriage decision. The law was the fifth amendment of the Constitution. The Court found that the word "Liberty" in the law pointed to something important that can't be taken away from the People without Due Process... something fundamental that predates the Constitution. Something inalienable. This is called Substantive Due Process. The court found that people have a fundamental Liberty right to marry (enter into a life-long civic/legal partnership with another adult), and found no important government interest in limiting this right to opposite sex couples. The Constitution, the most foundational of all law, was the basis for this decision. Constitutionality is a concept that serves both liberals and conservatives alike.
This seems to an expression of the idea that the transgender movement is a conservative backlash against feminism, which is something I have thought for several years.
The problem with transitioning is that it doesn’t actually solve anything the person is still the opposite sex to which they claim to be. No amount of hormones surgery or pretending will ever change that fact. Surely we should be coming up with a treatment that helps these people come to terms with the reality of their situation and the impossibility of having feelings of being the opposite sex since they have never been that sex to know how it feels. Would it not be better to be able to treat these people to lead normal live in their actual biological sex
@@davegold transitioning isn’t a treatment you are not actually treating anything it’s biologically impossible to be the opposite sex to which you are, the only treatment is to reconcile your mind with your actual sex anything else is delusional, when society then tries to retcon our understanding of sex and gender to pander to people with mental health problems it’s never going to end well, the amount of people now coming out and detransitioning is shocking these people were coerced by healthcare professionals into permanently mutilating their bodies only to realise years later they were simply suffering from delusions but they cannot reverse anything. In 10-15 years the amount of lawsuits that doctors are going to get for providing surgeries and hormone treatments to people who were suffering mental health problems is going to be staggering
If someone's condition is really bad, full on transition might make sense, but when I hear about top and bottom surgeries I just wonder what was so bad about liking dresses and being called "she" and still having a dick? Is ol' Big Pharma convincing people with less severe dysphoria to pursue the most extreme treatments somehow?
That's been my thinking as well. It's an attempt to make oneself appear to be the opposite sex but everyone knows they haven't actually changed there sex. Only their appearance.
This argument actually is stronger the other way. If the surge of people was due to something intrinsic (within the body or within the self) then we would see it in all generations. Social influences and social tolerance vary across generations. Puberty is also an obvious difference between adults and with kids.
Well I mean kids are more accepting in general then adults in this day. Why would u wanna transition if you work with a bunch of old conservative minded people, even the older liberals mostly tend to not really understand transgenderism, being a transgender kid or teen would simply be easier and offer a larger option of possible friends then coming out as an adult would
Marvelous? She believes there is such a thing as "transgender" there is not and there never has been. It is a man made concept and her failure to understand that shows how superficial her thinking is.
Love your show, I have been enjoying watching these videos. Keep up the good work! My only critique is, it’s really hard to hear you and your guest is extremely loud, maybe you can equalize the audio tracks.
@10:10 Big sigh. Same. I grew up knowing dozens and dozens of lesbians. Half of them now identify as transgender men, are on testosterone, and have health problems.
Coleman. Your mic is too quiet AGAIN. I know reading RUclips comments on your videos is a fool's errand, but many of us who are commenting it's too quiet are trying to help and support you.
@Scott Purcell Easy there, snarkmaster. You'll note that there were MANY posts saying the levels were fucked up from the handful of videos he put out around this time. I wasn't alone in my feedback for him, and subsequently, Coleman has sorted these issues out.
I don’t like the idea of signaling to LGBTQ students that “this classroom is a safe space.” The classroom should be a safe space for all the students, I don’t see why we have to single them out, or give them some special recognition that is not given to the others. If we had a classroom full of gay kids and there was only a straight pride flag there, I wouldn’t see the need for that. Especially in younger kids classrooms where sexuality doesn’t need to be discussed. It seems like keeping it neutral is what’s most fair for everyone.
The idea of safe spaces doesn't come from them being a minority. It's so they know they don't have to be scared of people freaking out if they find out that they aren't straight. It does get stupid with some of the extremist on the left, but there is some actual reason to have them.
@@La0bouchere No, there really isn’t. As someone who worked in public schools….there are extensive bully policies in every school….trans students and any issues they encounter can be handled under bully protocols……just like they are with other students. When regular education kids target and mistreat another kid with an intellectual disability (mental retardation) they handle it under bullying….no special “safe spaces”, etc. plus, many students from a young age are introduced to “good school citizen” rules which follow along the golden rule. This is really NOT that complicated….trans kids don’t need to be singled out as needing special and elevated attention. Trust me, kids pick up on whom has favored status and is “untouchable” above others, the consequences of this will likely make trans people less liked/accepted (only the children won’t voice it out of fear)……but they will remember and carry it into adulthood. Keep pushing the special status for trans, and expect backlash at some point.
@@La0bouchere the gay pride flag no longer means what it meant ten years ago. Seeing a flag used to mean "gay people are here" Then it evolved to mean "allies are here" Now it means " in this space we honor pronouns, gender identity, and we won't tell your mom weve switched your pronouns if you think you'll get in trouble" In the case of gay, there is no dilemma for a teacher. In the case of a trans student there is a big issue: you must use a child's desired pronouns even if the parents forbid it. So, if a student sees a trans inclusive flag it means something very different than with the original gay pride flag. There is a huge push in the schools to focus on social-emotional learning. Not supporting trans students is viewed as a violation of the principles taught in education school: that children need to feel safe in order to learn.
@@ashdav9980 Extensive bully protocols sounds ridiculous. Have you ever been bullied or seen kids get bullied. There's no bureaucratic protocol from the school that can meaningfully engage with that. I saw a bunch of kids about 20 literally curb stomp a girl of school grounds because she was weird and most likely somewhere on the spectrum. What would these bully protocols swoop down like Superman and stop them from attacking her? I had a group of students drive by and yell slurs at me. What are the bully protocols going to scan their license plates and ids and follow up? What a bizarre response to people trying to give more emotional support to students in a world where they are killing themselves and others because they feel completely alone.
Hum. Classrooms as "neutral" spaces is a concept that has emboldened leaders like the Texas governor to pass laws requiring the state's educators to show "both sides" of American Slavery and the Jewish Holocaust, for example. Numerous closeted and "out" LGBTQ students, and ones perceived to be, daily experience bullying (verbal abuse and physical attacks), sit in silence while "no homo" expressions, jokes, and other seemingly benign behaviors are committed at their expense. Your statement, I don’t like the idea of signaling to LGBTQ students that "this classroom is a safe space," is a costly one; maybe that sentiment best fits home-schooled children. I used to teach high schoolers and (most) of THOSE PEOPLE knew better than to interject personal attacks, including ones of a sexual, ethnic, racial and religious nature into my airspace, as there was hell to pay; the few who tried paid. With due respect.
Katie is smart and articulate and always an interesting listen. Also immediately likable. I'm an unconfused straight man, and Katie is an unconfused woman lesbian. Maybe I'm old-school, but that's just ONE of the reasons I like and supporter her.
There is so much hyperbole and hysteria on both sides of the debate. I'm glad that there are still adults who treat these issues with the necessary sobriety.
It's not the overt dysphoria issues. That exists. It's all the books and papers about new forms of Leninism, Maoism, Che etc using LGBTQIA++++++ as a vehicle to overthrow western liberal societies and groom children into becoming angry empty sullen revolutionary activists, who hate everyone including their allies and themselves, but especially hate the other who is guilty of everything that is wrong.
Excellent discussion. But I do have a problem with the gay pride flag in the classroom to '....let gays know it is a safe space...." If children are taught to be courteous to EVERYONE ALL THE TIME, that is all that is necessary. The old fashioned Golden Rule works really well and then one does not need a 'sis' flag or a black flag or an asian flag, ad nauseam.
I’m fifty three years old. I’ve always said that being gay, trans, queer, nonbinary, etc. is not a choice, but it is becoming one. Sadly I see this coming true before my very eyes. People should be true to themselves. If you are gay, be gay, but if you are a parent or educator and you are presenting alternative lifestyles to your children as a choice, this is a big problem. The vast majority of people will find peace and happiness in conformity. I say this as a non-conformist. Non-conformity is a journey that a person takes when transitioning from an immature being to a mature one, not an option presented to an immature being.
48:48 - He mentioned the subreddit /r/detrans. I learned about this subreddit from an /r/AskReddit question, "What subreddit were you shocked to find exists?" Someone replied with /r/detrans and oh wow, the hatred I read in response. All the usual accusations of "hatred, bigotry, phobia, blah blah blah..." Here's what I find odd: If I were to say, "I'm non-binary because some days I feel like a boy, somedays I feel more like a girl..." People applaud and say what a brave and progressive soul I am. But if I say, "I was born male and used to feel like a girl but now I don't so I'm a man now..." Suddenly I'm a bigot and transphobe?? Why are a person's feelings about their gender valid and worthy of celebration one moment but evil and worthy of condemnation the next? One word: REGRET. Regret means a mistake was made. This is contradictory to the ideology. And with people of this mindset it is ideology, not truth, that matters. This whole thing is such obvious madness. It is as insane as saying 2+2=5. It's just a bridge too far in the Left's progressive psychosis. There has to come a point where reality is not about feelings and emotions. Your mind understands reality, it does not create it.
@39:40 I was just about to say that people who abuse children are often doing it not out of attraction but getting off on hurting someone … it isn’t an attraction it’s harm and hurt and taking something that turns them on. I have a huge problem with saying it’s attraction on most of them, most of them are doing it out of power and that always needs to be stated alongside any conversation around the few who may feel this out of so called attraction.
If it was just attraction they would just not act on it. There are more layers to it. In acting on the "attraction" they know this human can't consent, they aren't mature enough to understand what is happening. There's power in that, and sex offenders often get off on the power aspect of the act
Katie: "There is a difference between MAPs who are attracted to minors and those who do not act on it." Sounds like the same argument Christians make regarding same sex attractions....
Hello Coleman. Thank you for this interview. I appreciate your ongoing attempts to understand this complex issue. I'd love the opportunity to share my perspective with you. I am a transsexual man (natal female), a licensed clinical social worker, a gender therapist certification program teacher, and, like you, an Advisor at the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racsm.
That point about confusion! If a gay man identifies as straight, he'd be misidentified. If a trans man identifies as a cis woman, she would *be* a cis woman. It comes down to the question, "How do you know?" What if you're wrong?
These are some exceptionally "prickly" (contentious, confusing, complicated, convoluted, controversial, etc....) topics. Regardless of what perspectives & experiences either of you have in regards to these subjects, I applaud you for having this discussion and for at least being honest & sincere (or very good actors/liars!). I've never been able to fully buy into the "born that way" ideology for myself, and for the vast majority of those with a non-straight sexual "orientation". But I understand why it came about (if that's true then Christianity (and most other religions) can not justly assert that it is wrong or sinful to have such an orientation; although actually living that "lifestyle" (having a sexual partner) may not be protected...); and I do believe that it at least could be true this some people. I apprehension on this concept has been "explained" by the truly bizarre & seemingly inexplicable spike in trans particularly natal females, as well as non straight sexual identities and non binary gender identities. However, not being "born that way" does not suddenly make any of these things the result/outcome of a choice made by the individual. I have become convinced that there are a multitude of factors involved, different sets & combinations of those factors for each individual; and some of those factors are/will be very upsetting to certain people and they would undoubtedly staunchly deny such claims. (I'm referring to the now wildly unpopular ideas like "distant/absent father", "overbearing mother", "childhood sexual trauma" as potential contributing factors of homosexuality). The key words are "potential" & "contributing"! anyway... I think that in order to have any hope of actually gaining and real or meaningful understanding of these topics we need to closely examine what little scraps remain in terms of historic examples of anything that may resemble these topics in the past from other cultures. This is no easy task, but much can be learned even from what we do have. I think that the most important thing that we can learn is that: 1. Until the late 19th or early 20th century all of these topics manifested as behaviors NOT identities! It is the transfer from behavior to identity that is somehow a catalyst for problems. And the obvious reason for that seems to be that it is actually a much more accurate reflection of reality to understand these things as behaviors. And creating an identity based on behavior is inherently flawed and prone to creating complications & problems.
Self-identification is the absurd beginning of the trans phenomena. Identity is formed over a lifetime of interaction with reality and all its manifestations, not an expression of desire or fantasy. I am not bound to be controlled by an announcement of "identity" derived from narcissism, attention seeking, oppositional defiance, body dysmorphic disorder, dysphoria etc and not a relationship with reality. Why these terms are accepted by the population reveals a concerning defect. Normophobia very likely. I am pro reality testing not anti trans. Contagion disorders are historically very prevalent and numerous, similar to ROGD.
I agree with most of what has been said. However, you cannot just say « there are other ways » unless you describe what these other ways are. Also, you cannot describe something as harmful to children and then state that it is a parental right to harm your children in the way you have just described. After all, there are many ways that parents can harm their children that are illegal.
also, you cannot describe something like sex as non-binary and then expect to have any ideas of objective reality at all...but that is what so many people do, and it is backed at higher institutions 😁😁🙄🙄
I’d be curious if Katie, who just said drag is adult themed and sexualized and is appalled that DeSantis would take CPS action against parents who take their kids to drag shoes, would she also be appalled if those parents gave their 7yo a p*rn DVD?
I don't recall knowing that boys should like blue and girls should like pink until I after I graduated from high school, but when in kindergarten, I drew Santa Claus with a green beard, much to the teacher's distress. Being green. Not easy, I suppose.
@@mostreal907 I graduated in 1962. If I remember right, I learned about color coding of gender when another student (as a freshman at local Junior college) told a joke about new-born babies debating about if they were boys, girls, or some combination there in. I don't remember the straight lines, but the punch line was, "Blue booties." which one of the babies said to indicate that he was a boy. Everyone laughed. I had no idea why .
33:26 even in this conversation there seems to be some confusion/conflation between sex and gender. Katie recognizing that she's female doesn't mean that she might have more masculine or feminine personality traits. When she and Andrew Sullivan were on Bill Maher, it may have been Andrew who was saying that when he was a kid he would have been called a Nancy boy and maybe Katie would have been called a tomboy and she nodded in agreement with that. In this day and age it's really hard to find a person who cares about that. I think what most people get upset about is the constant conflation of sex with gender. Just because your gender expression is more masculine doesn't mean that you are really a male. I know Katie gets this because I've heard her say it before I just wish that we could find a language to use and stick to it and not be corrupted by the language of the trans activists.
The body response theory Coleman is purporting is going to fail. I think kids are more impressionable than we'd like to believe. If Coleman had seen gay pxrn when he was around the same age, he might have went down a different trajectory. He may have ended up bi at the very least.
@@WinstonSmithGPT I may be older but boys almost never discussed fealings with their friends, girls talked about their feelings with their friends all the time. This is what I mean by encouraged, they and their friends expected it.
@@WinstonSmithGPT you could be right, you could be wrong. Males hunted, this required quietness, females gathered food together and did other tasks that did not require silence. Males who didn't protect the females did not see their group do well, males who did saw their groups do better. Male and females have different genes that affect behavior.
The late Nancy Friday was one of the most brilliant women who ever lived. She thought women tended more to seek symbiosis--with their mother, with friends, with lovers. That could make them more susceptible to peer pressure on the average. (OF COURSE there are exceptions.)
It's all well and good to have this visual presentation for these video clips, but if I can't hear both voices at equal volume, and preferably a loud volume, it's misspent energy.
@@em3sis yea, that’s why they argue about it. The right has its own nonsense and infighting as well, and all of the nonsense from both sides distracts from anything useful getting addressed.
I think we should review the idea of gay marriage. That question is not at all obvious and I hate it when people just hand-wave it as though it is (I very much wish Coleman would explain why it was so obvious to him to people who don't understand it. I'd suspect that he doesn't have an actual reason that doesn't immediately devolve into "I feel like it should be acceptable"). Answering that question requires answering the question "why does the government recognize marriage at all?" No one has ever answered that question in a way that supports gay marriage as far as I can tell (which of course is why it doesn't get asked). The entire gay debate has been sitting on a foundation of sand for so many years, it was inevitable that it would lead to absurdities like what we see now. The pro-gay people never had any principles deeper than, "gayness should be acceptable and equal to hetero-ness". They never applied a moral framework and came to the conclusion that gayness should be accepted, they started there in the first place. Consequently, they never developed actual arguments in favor of gay acceptance and now there are no arguments to rein in the bad actors. That is why gay marriage needs to be revisited and shored up.
Hi, please read the long comment I made about my own experience. Here in the uk, every year since same sex marriage was legalised around 5 years ago, most lgbt people have not married. Out of the LGbt people who have married, more have married someone of the opposite sex than someone of the same sex. Most lgbt people say that same sex marriage is mandatory, but in practice, most lgbt people shun marriage of any kind. This is according to ONS data. Plus what we see with our own eyes. More lgbt people are in opposite sex relationships than same sex, as we see in our lgbt friendship groups. Most lgbt people are single and use hook up apps. The data on bisexuality collated in Dual Attraction shows that most bisexual people do have relationships with both sexes in their 20s and 30s but most settle down into long term opposite sex relationships. In the uk, bisexual people make up the majority of LGBT people. So it all makes sense that the data shows more lgbt people have opposite sex marriage than same sex, but most lgbt people do not marry in the uk.
Because we shouldn't discriminate based on sexuality? Its very simple. There are actual benefits to being married such as being able to register for a different tax bracket or being able to visit your wife/husband in the hospital during an emergency. By denying gay marriage you are withholding rights from people arbitrarily. There is 0 burden of proof to how true the love of 2 people getting married is, as long as they both swear it and then live happily together it doesn't matter. So I wouldn't even be opposed to 2 (potentially asexual) people who are just friends getting married. There are plenty of terrible marriages between straight people who constantly cheat on each other or get divorced at record speed. There really isn't some sort of better or worse here.
Of course, there is a difference between sexuality and gender identity. Sexuality is a real thing, there is ample historical evidence of the existence of non-hetero sexualities. It's in the Bible for crying out loud. As for the idea of gender identities, the modern concept of gender did a not exist a century ago, which I verified by looking up gender in my 1941 World Book encyclopedia--it just talks about the grammatical concept of gender. Now gender identity (e.g. she-males) can be seen as a behavioral response to societal condemnation of homosexuality. And I see no reason why this should have changed.
I think it's worth it to have a separate league for intersex and trans people whose bodies may have some of the advantages of a male body, and some of the disadvantages of a female body in sports. Yes, the leagues may be small, but we make similar small leagues and competitions for people with disabilities. While most people have either a physiologically male or female body, there is still a significant minority of people in our society with bodies that are somewhat in between the two, whether they were born with a hormonal abnormality or they are transgender, and as a society, this is probably the best way to include those people in sports without compromising female sports.
Trans activists would like us to believe that intersex people are in teh same catagory but the truth is the vast majority of the very very small number of intersex people are either male or female both physically and presenting, they just above extra health issues because the have an extra chromosome. Very few intersex people are ambiguous in their gender and presentation
Katie says that men who oppose transgenderism owe feminists a debt of gratitude. Even though feminism gave rise to trans in the first place. And as if a man would need to know any feminists whatsoever to oppose transgenderism.
1: highlight the text you want to copy 2: press ctrl-c 3: click in the text box you want to paste into 4: press ctrl-p granted, if you are phonepostan or on Apple computer this probably doesn't help you :x
@@Zidana123 cheers but its more than that, normally I need to write into word and cut and paste into other text boxes. however when doing this on youtube (uniquely) it has started causing problems (for about three months now) it will not accept my comments.. various notices come up..it changes the text... what ever.. thiey think I am a bot or troll and do not understand people with some problems need to do this. its very upsetting when you write and can only use 30% of your normal words.. it makes you sound stupid.. but thanks for the advice.. I am looking into doing something about this.
The phrase "trans-phobic" keeps being thrown around these days as if it is about something that is a given, that it is real. I am not 'trans-phobic', because I do not fear so-called trans people. I do not know anyone who is transphobic. What I do have is concerns about what is behind all the activism that is taking place in the West. Many people I know, from both sides of the aisle are concerned as well. Who is bankrolling the dismantling of America? What is their motivation? Huma rights or something more of a selfish nature? Do these activists that are being used understand the damage, murder, and mayhem that Marxism/communism has committed in the last century? I don't believe that they do. They think their revolution is pure and morally superior. This is what the concerns are about, not trans people, or trans rights, but tyranny leading to eventual slavery by the globalist elite.
thing is, given the touchy-feely culture we live in and the smugness about liberals who only want to bash Republicans as if they are still the only problem, this trans nonsense and whatever other movement that is even UN-SCIENTIFIC, the West is going down the shitter for absolutely no rational reason besides irrationality, and even wrongness. The unscientific nature of this is something liberals should get behind (but they only like criticizing science when it's what the Republicans don't believe in -- and many think the trans crap is on the side of science 😁😁 -- and they still make fun of people for...stuff 😁😁) but they are driven by emotion and pretend to be driven by logic...and bash Republicans for being that same thing. Republicans only play the far right game to win elections; woke liberals BELIEVE the nonsense they say 🙄🙄
To me the unifying theme of recent trends in youth mental health issues is external pressure for children and young people to conform to some specific identity that may differ greatly from whatever their actual individual needs and preferences may be. It can be as “benign” as pressuring a kid to have a specific profession when they are really more suited for another one. Determining someone else’s role for them and denying them agency doesn’t always look like abuse but it is frequently experienced that way. With gender the pressure often starts before birth with things like gender reveal parties and how the nursery is decorated. This was not that big a deal when I was born, and it wasn’t a deal at all before ultrasounds and genetic testing could tell people what the baby’s gender would be. All of the buildup and intensity around gender and parenting has created an enormous amount of pressure on young people. Obviously there were different issues around children and status and parenting in the past, too, but this hyper-fixation on children by society is very new.
Coleman, you and Katie are “classic liberals,” meaning that you’re applying logic only after researching politically-charged issues with open mindedness. Thank you.
I've been looking at more of Katie's presents on RUclips. It seems more and more clear that she doesn't do her own research. Definately not a thought leader. More a thought follower. Just my opinion.
Good podcast. Though I don't agree on the last point that taking kids to drag shows should never be an issue for CPS. Again it depends on the show, not all drag shows are sexually explicit and there shouldn't be too much of a problem with parents taking kids to those that aren't. However, a minority are basically strip shows (though that seems to be an American thing), and I would expect CPS to intervene if for example a father was taking a young child to strip bar, so why should it be different for a sexually explicit drag show? I think the same point could be made with the other example of horror films... maybe if you are taking your kid to watch 'The Human Centipede' then yeah maybe it would be good for CPS to have a word with you?
Someone may have a natural tendency to cruelty but they have to control themselves. It is just not loving so there's your answer. Don't do anything that harms others just to please yourselves. I have no sympathy at all for pedophiles because it harms others.
Because she isn't that level-headed and rational. She has stated publicly that men who oppose transgenderism owe feminists a debt of gratitude. They don't. Feminism helped get us here in the first place.
From what I understand from psychology, there is actually a lot of malleability around the arousal template. So in someways conversion therapy can really work, you can condition people to be aroused by totally bizarre things using psychological conditioning. From your discussion it sounds like you’re not aware of this.
I had gender dysphoria for 25 years. I am glad I went to my church and lgbt Bible study groups rather than a doctor. I got elders who were ex trans. Men who had had hormones and lived as women for years and detransitioned. This was 20 years ago. I am bisexual but being bisexual doesn’t make me want to self harm, whereas dysphoria did. There is a massive blind spot, very obvious blind spot with Katie and the lgb alliance - who I like - and other gay and bisexual people who say no one is born trans, it’s a psychological or emotional issue, but we are born gay. When twice as many gay people have been sexually abused in childhood than heterosexual people, it’s a bit of a clue that we are not born lgb. Lgb people have higher levels of autism, bullying on school, lack of same sex friends in childhood, a parent with a serious mental health condition or an absent same sex parent. The evidence has been there for 40 years including a study out at the end of 2020 that left wing uk journalist Owen Jones acknowledged and did a full page article in The Guardian about. Katie’s story of not realising she was gay until she went to university and her wife not knowing she was gay until she went to a city sounds like social contagion. They had to be around gay people to know that they were gay in adulthood. Puberty and sexuality kicks in in the teens or pre teens. People who are gay know we are gay much earlier than adulthood. So this blind spot with lgb people who say people are not born trans, social contagion etc need to have a serious think. And yes, I do know many homosexual people who had counselling for having been sexually abused in childhood, their odd relationships with their parents, and a by product of the counselling was they became bisexual or heterosexual. We all know people who change sexual orientation in adulthood. We all know it happens, but “conversion therapy” doesn’t work. Lots of blind spots. We are not born lgbt. It’s no biggie. I wasn’t born speaking 4 languages but it is something that developed because of my environment mixing with my genetics. Just like being lgbt. It’s no biggie, it doesn’t mean we are second class citizens. Everyone is affected by life in different ways. We just need to be honest about it and get any help we need.
MAN - WOMAN - GAY - LESBIAN - TRANS MAN - TRANS WOMAN : Stop the drama confusion and narcissistic time-wasting and get on with life and stop focusing on what's between legs and GROW UP and START MAKING SOMETHING USEFUL WITH YOUR LIFE. As a gay man I am sick of this western culture shit-storm. First world problem with people too much free time on their hands.
Yep, I wanted to know more about Katie herzog because I’ve heard of her a lot and want to know more about what she has to say. On this, I’m hearing the same things I’ve heard from many other people. So I’ll look at another podcast she’s in to see what else she has to say. Yes, there is so much more to us. I am finding that podcasts are covering the same issues in the same way with the same ideas over and over. We need more and we are more than this. A history channel I was following has become a racial channel. I want to hear new ideas, new facts and different things. I think a lot of gays - like me and you - are tired of all of this. There is more. 💜
Glad you caught the show. Let me know what you think in the comments and I’ll reply as soon as I can. If you’re a regular listener and would like to show your support and gain access to exclusive talks with some incredible minds, check out the Coleman Unfiltered membership here: bit.ly/3B1GAlS
Love this conversation. I’m on a Clinical Psychology doctorate programme and this conversation is so badly needed in the profession, but is absolutely impossible to have
Oof. Best of luck with that...
Keep trying.
What has happened to our society? Honest discussions about any nuanced topic are becoming less and less frequent it seems. Are the social shaming and the overly irrational and emotional responses to any dissenting voice being repeatedly encouraged by social media? I’m very impressed with these people tackling this topic.
Finished my psyd a few years ago and found that getting into Jon haidt and Steve pinker were helpful to combat the myopic nonsense I was taught/not allowed to question. And critical therapy antidote has some good resources too. Hope that helps, good luck!
@@7troyfreund helicopter parents, progressive policies, and social media has made everyone to sensitive and actually close minded.
I've followed Katie's work since she started at the Stranger here in Seattle; it's so satisfying to watch her get the recognition she deserves.
You can't even smoke weed until you're 21 (where it's legal), but we're supposed to let 12 take puberty blocker drugs. Something is off with this picture.
It is actually evil what pharmaceutical companies are doing.
"Something is off with this picture" - to put it mildly.
Minors get prescribed drugs all the time. Doctors are the ones making these decisions with the help of the parents. The state should have no role in the process.
@@Matt-hq2ew what if the child is gay and the "doctor" recommends conversation therapy to cure the child's gayness? Would that not be the government's business either.
@@senbassador Conversation therapy is not the same as chopping someone dick
this is hands down the best, most informed, most logical and rational trans discussion i've heard. let's hope there's a coming "contagion" of this type of treatment of the subject. hats off!
“Is killing a person moral -let’s have a discussion about it” 😂😂…having a discussion about something does not make it legitimate 👎👎
@@neilwiththereeldeel if the person in question performs unnecessary cosmetic surgery on children, or prescribes sterilizing hormones to healthy children, then yes, that’s a very legitimate discussion.
@@zimzob Right, but that's not a discussion, that is just the wrong thing to do; to perform unnecessary surgery. You are either male or female, man or woman. Nothing will change that, and especially if you're a kid, you should not be subject to such things. At all. But there is no discussion to be had about it.
This is my big frustration with this topic: the Karolinska Institute is one of the best medical universities in the world. The institute recommended that Sweden stop the medical transition of minors, acknowledging that the unexpected increment of girls identifying as trans remains unexplained and choosing a more cautious approach. Sweden is not in the midst of a toxic culture war, and to me it seems as if medical professionals there are not being swayed by politics/activist groups as they are here in the US.
If we fully appreciate the notion that good science is by definition unbiased and apolitical, we should be paying close attention to what is happening in Scandinavia. The irony being that the advocacy groups claiming to be pro-trans are the very same groups also claiming that there is an unquestionable scientific consensus on all trans-related issues. They are the ones interfering with scientific inquiry and-of course-it is those who identify as trans who have the most at stake.
@@ProkofNY Beautifully said. And I wholeheartedly agree. The scientific method is the best means we have of getting to the truth. It should be utterly free of political influence/corruption.
Young adolescent girl: "Hey, I'm a lesbian."
Peers: "Meh"
Next day, Young adolescent girl: "Hey, I think I am trans."
Peers: "oh wow, you are so brave! Tell me more."
Just change everything from “man and woman” to “male and female.” There, problem solved
This is exactly the problem.
So gender dysphoria isn’t real?
You are not understanding the point being made.
Many young gay people are being transitioned because being gay is just boring these days. Being Trans is the trendy thing now. Declarations of being Trans are met with love bombing and relentless positive reinforcement. People who change their mind are also often subject to abuse and derision by the online Trans cult.
@@caydenblue it can manifest from sociological environment (as gender is socially constructed right? Its based on sex though), lgbtq postmodern ideology dismisses sociology/socially emergent phenomena and sees it as fake, by this logic gender dysphoria is fake
Suggestion for you: I'd add time stamps for your long form interview videos
I am feeling so very proud of you, Coleman, that you decided to further cover this issue after where you last left it with that Australian gender clinic person. I was afraid you’d been met with a rabid activist mob you didn’t expect - and basically chose to acquiesce to the demanded position with that gender doc - then be done with it.
It’s obvious you’ve given some deep moral thought and consideration to the complexities, in this realm. You explored the accurate data with Katie - and did so with deep humanity. Thank you. I’m seeing moral courage here, sir.
289% increase is actually closer to a quadrupling, not a tripling.
100% is a doubling
200% is a tripling
300% is a quadrupling
I'm permanently pissed at Mark Twain for his "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" line. Statistics are not inherently dishonest, they're just a bit tricky to comprehend, UNLESS one has been properly taught in school. And they can easily be abused by using disparate figures for related things, which the news media does all the time, often (I imagine) not even realizing they're being abusive to their own readers.
Ideology comes before expertise. Very well said.
I don’t understand what this means? Can you help explain it?
@@jamesdrake4271 "believing" the right thing is more important than actual skills or knowledge....
@@junipershull23skidoo sounds like some bs based in delusion
@@junipershull23skidoo This is what Katie does as well tho. She says kids shouldn’t have puberty blockers, but she isn’t a medical professional. She should let medical professionals make these kinds of decisions
One thing I'd wish liberals would stop stating that gay marriage is settled. It was a Supreme Court decision. The people did not vote that way. It'd be like saying the question of secession is settled because a supreme court ruled is was illegal. A court's ruling is not defining unless the populace agrees with it. You may argue that more people support it based on Pew polls, but don't be surprised if you see a movement to return the issue to states.
It's settled to a fair extent because very few people give a crap about it at this point.
SCOTUS didn't create anything new in the same-sex marriage decision. The law was the fifth amendment of the Constitution. The Court found that the word "Liberty" in the law pointed to something important that can't be taken away from the People without Due Process... something fundamental that predates the Constitution. Something inalienable. This is called Substantive Due Process. The court found that people have a fundamental Liberty right to marry (enter into a life-long civic/legal partnership with another adult), and found no important government interest in limiting this right to opposite sex couples. The Constitution, the most foundational of all law, was the basis for this decision. Constitutionality is a concept that serves both liberals and conservatives alike.
This seems to an expression of the idea that the transgender movement is a conservative backlash against feminism, which is something I have thought for several years.
SRS as conversion therapy. The Iranian model.
It really is.
The problem with transitioning is that it doesn’t actually solve anything the person is still the opposite sex to which they claim to be. No amount of hormones surgery or pretending will ever change that fact. Surely we should be coming up with a treatment that helps these people come to terms with the reality of their situation and the impossibility of having feelings of being the opposite sex since they have never been that sex to know how it feels. Would it not be better to be able to treat these people to lead normal live in their actual biological sex
Until that happens, transitioning may be the best treatment available and if it has a high success rate (in making lives better) it should continue.
@@davegold transitioning isn’t a treatment you are not actually treating anything it’s biologically impossible to be the opposite sex to which you are, the only treatment is to reconcile your mind with your actual sex anything else is delusional, when society then tries to retcon our understanding of sex and gender to pander to people with mental health problems it’s never going to end well, the amount of people now coming out and detransitioning is shocking these people were coerced by healthcare professionals into permanently mutilating their bodies only to realise years later they were simply suffering from delusions but they cannot reverse anything. In 10-15 years the amount of lawsuits that doctors are going to get for providing surgeries and hormone treatments to people who were suffering mental health problems is going to be staggering
If someone's condition is really bad, full on transition might make sense, but when I hear about top and bottom surgeries I just wonder what was so bad about liking dresses and being called "she" and still having a dick? Is ol' Big Pharma convincing people with less severe dysphoria to pursue the most extreme treatments somehow?
That's been my thinking as well. It's an attempt to make oneself appear to be the opposite sex but everyone knows they haven't actually changed there sex. Only their appearance.
No shit Sherlock. I'm a trans and I'm aware of this.
I've loved listening to Coleman in interviews on other podcasts, but I came here for my Lesbian Queen Katie. 😂
Wow. First full-length podcast I've heard from Coleman. He's my new fave!
Great interview. If the surge of people were the result of increased social tolerance would we not see a surge in adults as well as kids?
This is the only question that should asked about this topic.
Brilliant. I never thought of that. It is quite a question to ask.
This argument actually is stronger the other way. If the surge of people was due to something intrinsic (within the body or within the self) then we would see it in all generations. Social influences and social tolerance vary across generations. Puberty is also an obvious difference between adults and with kids.
Well I mean kids are more accepting in general then adults in this day. Why would u wanna transition if you work with a bunch of old conservative minded people, even the older liberals mostly tend to not really understand transgenderism, being a transgender kid or teen would simply be easier and offer a larger option of possible friends then coming out as an adult would
Katie is absolutely marvelous! Obv Coleman is as well. What a wonderful discussion pairing.
Marvelous? She believes there is such a thing as "transgender" there is not and there never has been. It is a man made concept and her failure to understand that shows how superficial her thinking is.
Both suck
She lost me at "kiddie diddling". Call it what it is, child molestation.
Intro so loud, mic so quiet.
Love your episodes but please look into that - not all machines equalise sound
I loved your Bayard Rustin video. For many years i couldn’t find anyone who knew of him. He is so important.
I love 'Blocked and Reported'. Great rapport between Jesse and Katie.
Good conversation. But still it's very difficult to hear Coleman, I use a desktop setup so I just crank the volume up, wonder if he knows.
its remarkable how this still happens
Same issue here. Volume is too low.
Love your show, I have been enjoying watching these videos. Keep up the good work! My only critique is, it’s really hard to hear you and your guest is extremely loud, maybe you can equalize the audio tracks.
great conversation. huge katie fan. thanks to you both for having this conversation.
@10:10 Big sigh. Same. I grew up knowing dozens and dozens of lesbians. Half of them now identify as transgender men, are on testosterone, and have health problems.
Coleman. Your mic is too quiet AGAIN. I know reading RUclips comments on your videos is a fool's errand, but many of us who are commenting it's too quiet are trying to help and support you.
@Scott Purcell Easy there, snarkmaster. You'll note that there were MANY posts saying the levels were fucked up from the handful of videos he put out around this time. I wasn't alone in my feedback for him, and subsequently, Coleman has sorted these issues out.
I don’t like the idea of signaling to LGBTQ students that “this classroom is a safe space.” The classroom should be a safe space for all the students, I don’t see why we have to single them out, or give them some special recognition that is not given to the others. If we had a classroom full of gay kids and there was only a straight pride flag there, I wouldn’t see the need for that. Especially in younger kids classrooms where sexuality doesn’t need to be discussed. It seems like keeping it neutral is what’s most fair for everyone.
The idea of safe spaces doesn't come from them being a minority. It's so they know they don't have to be scared of people freaking out if they find out that they aren't straight. It does get stupid with some of the extremist on the left, but there is some actual reason to have them.
@@La0bouchere No, there really isn’t. As someone who worked in public schools….there are extensive bully policies in every school….trans students and any issues they encounter can be handled under bully protocols……just like they are with other students. When regular education kids target and mistreat another kid with an intellectual disability (mental retardation) they handle it under bullying….no special “safe spaces”, etc. plus, many students from a young age are introduced to “good school citizen” rules which follow along the golden rule. This is really NOT that complicated….trans kids don’t need to be singled out as needing special and elevated attention. Trust me, kids pick up on whom has favored status and is “untouchable” above others, the consequences of this will likely make trans people less liked/accepted (only the children won’t voice it out of fear)……but they will remember and carry it into adulthood. Keep pushing the special status for trans, and expect backlash at some point.
@@La0bouchere the gay pride flag no longer means what it meant ten years ago. Seeing a flag used to mean "gay people are here" Then it evolved to mean "allies are here" Now it means " in this space we honor pronouns, gender identity, and we won't tell your mom weve switched your pronouns if you think you'll get in trouble" In the case of gay, there is no dilemma for a teacher. In the case of a trans student there is a big issue: you must use a child's desired pronouns even if the parents forbid it. So, if a student sees a trans inclusive flag it means something very different than with the original gay pride flag. There is a huge push in the schools to focus on social-emotional learning. Not supporting trans students is viewed as a violation of the principles taught in education school: that children need to feel safe in order to learn.
@@ashdav9980 Extensive bully protocols sounds ridiculous. Have you ever been bullied or seen kids get bullied. There's no bureaucratic protocol from the school that can meaningfully engage with that.
I saw a bunch of kids about 20 literally curb stomp a girl of school grounds because she was weird and most likely somewhere on the spectrum. What would these bully protocols swoop down like Superman and stop them from attacking her? I had a group of students drive by and yell slurs at me. What are the bully protocols going to scan their license plates and ids and follow up?
What a bizarre response to people trying to give more emotional support to students in a world where they are killing themselves and others because they feel completely alone.
Hum. Classrooms as "neutral" spaces is a concept that has emboldened leaders like the Texas governor to pass laws requiring the state's educators to show "both sides" of American Slavery and the Jewish Holocaust, for example. Numerous closeted and "out" LGBTQ students, and ones perceived to be, daily experience bullying (verbal abuse and physical attacks), sit in silence while "no homo" expressions, jokes, and other seemingly benign behaviors are committed at their expense. Your statement, I don’t like the idea of signaling to LGBTQ students that "this classroom is a safe space," is a costly one; maybe that sentiment best fits home-schooled children. I used to teach high schoolers and (most) of THOSE PEOPLE knew better than to interject personal attacks, including ones of a sexual, ethnic, racial and religious nature into my airspace, as there was hell to pay; the few who tried paid. With due respect.
I really enjoyed this conversation. Honest straightforward communication is always fruitful.
Katie is smart and articulate and always an interesting listen. Also immediately likable. I'm an unconfused straight man, and Katie is an unconfused woman lesbian. Maybe I'm old-school, but that's just ONE of the reasons I like and supporter her.
There is so much hyperbole and hysteria on both sides of the debate. I'm glad that there are still adults who treat these issues with the necessary sobriety.
It's not the overt dysphoria issues. That exists. It's all the books and papers about new forms of Leninism, Maoism, Che etc using LGBTQIA++++++ as a vehicle to overthrow western liberal societies and groom children into becoming angry empty sullen revolutionary activists, who hate everyone including their allies and themselves, but especially hate the other who is guilty of everything that is wrong.
Gotta work on that sound mix. Coleman's audio was lower than Katie's, until the outro, when was it much higher.
All his video his voice is too low.
This was really eye opening. You two are somewhat socially conservative in your opinions, but much less so in how you think about the issues.
Excellent discussion. But I do have a problem with the gay pride flag in the classroom to '....let gays know it is a safe space...." If children are taught to be courteous to EVERYONE ALL THE TIME, that is all that is necessary. The old fashioned Golden Rule works really well and then one does not need a 'sis' flag or a black flag or an asian flag, ad nauseam.
All Lives Matter .... No seriously 🎶
I’m fifty three years old. I’ve always said that being gay, trans, queer, nonbinary, etc. is not a choice, but it is becoming one. Sadly I see this coming true before my very eyes. People should be true to themselves. If you are gay, be gay, but if you are a parent or educator and you are presenting alternative lifestyles to your children as a choice, this is a big problem. The vast majority of people will find peace and happiness in conformity. I say this as a non-conformist. Non-conformity is a journey that a person takes when transitioning from an immature being to a mature one, not an option presented to an immature being.
Unfortunately the volume is so low on this video that it was very difficult for us to listen to it. The conversation was great though.
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Oh YES. EXERCISE! Connecting with your body is essential. So much more truth in our bodies than in our increasing instacrap-filled minds
48:48 - He mentioned the subreddit /r/detrans. I learned about this subreddit from an /r/AskReddit question, "What subreddit were you shocked to find exists?" Someone replied with /r/detrans and oh wow, the hatred I read in response. All the usual accusations of "hatred, bigotry, phobia, blah blah blah..."
Here's what I find odd: If I were to say, "I'm non-binary because some days I feel like a boy, somedays I feel more like a girl..." People applaud and say what a brave and progressive soul I am. But if I say, "I was born male and used to feel like a girl but now I don't so I'm a man now..." Suddenly I'm a bigot and transphobe?? Why are a person's feelings about their gender valid and worthy of celebration one moment but evil and worthy of condemnation the next?
One word: REGRET. Regret means a mistake was made. This is contradictory to the ideology. And with people of this mindset it is ideology, not truth, that matters.
This whole thing is such obvious madness. It is as insane as saying 2+2=5. It's just a bridge too far in the Left's progressive psychosis. There has to come a point where reality is not about feelings and emotions. Your mind understands reality, it does not create it.
"They/them" STILL confounds me. It literally makes no sense. As a society, we are at peak stoopid.
One can only hope…
So stOOpid, indeed.
And for speakers of English as a Foreign Language even more so. My pronouns are Your Majesty/Her Royal Highness - in case anyone's asking.
Grammerly app, even says it's not proper grammar. Go figure. People who prefer to be call they/them are egotistical.
I’ve met a couple they/thems at college. They’re always female and always insufferable. It’s the zoomer version of ~not like other girls~
Excellent conversation!
@39:40 I was just about to say that people who abuse children are often doing it not out of attraction but getting off on hurting someone … it isn’t an attraction it’s harm and hurt and taking something that turns them on. I have a huge problem with saying it’s attraction on most of them, most of them are doing it out of power and that always needs to be stated alongside any conversation around the few who may feel this out of so called attraction.
If it was just attraction they would just not act on it. There are more layers to it. In acting on the "attraction" they know this human can't consent, they aren't mature enough to understand what is happening. There's power in that, and sex offenders often get off on the power aspect of the act
Thr sarcasm from the get go already had me laughing I love it
Katie: "There is a difference between MAPs who are attracted to minors and those who do not act on it." Sounds like the same argument Christians make regarding same sex attractions....
1:18:55 OMG brilliant comic timing. WTG Katie.
I like her a lot. She speaks her mind and is very smart.
I will check out Blocked and Reported podcast. Thanks
It's great-- very therapeutic!
Its really funny--lots of witty banter
I want to listen intently, I really do, but the audio is set so painfully low.
Why don't you fix your volume problem? You are barely audible. You have been notified many many times on this, but no improvement has happened.
Hello Coleman. Thank you for this interview. I appreciate your ongoing attempts to understand this complex issue.
I'd love the opportunity to share my perspective with you. I am a transsexual man (natal female), a licensed clinical social worker, a gender therapist certification program teacher, and, like you, an Advisor at the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racsm.
I'd love to hear your take. If there's a way to chat on here, and you have the time, I'd love to hear from you.
Great discussion
Coleman, your audio levels on your mike are too low. Yout guest is way louder than.
Shoulda kept the uhhhs in the intro 😂
“God hates flags”! I assume that’s a joke that has been around or Herzog has used before but that’s a good one!
@ColemanHughesOfficial Love you! But I gotta point out a typo. It's Jesse Singal, although yes, he may be single...
Coleman your supporter page is still broken. I can't access this video or the last ep there
Gotta turn up the volume on your mic. The difference in volumes makes it hard to listen to.
Amazing conversation...
christ i love katie. disappointing there was no video of her.
Toddler development would not include "signaling sexuality".
That point about confusion!
If a gay man identifies as straight, he'd be misidentified. If a trans man identifies as a cis woman, she would *be* a cis woman.
It comes down to the question, "How do you know?" What if you're wrong?
Thanks
These are some exceptionally "prickly" (contentious, confusing, complicated, convoluted, controversial, etc....) topics. Regardless of what perspectives & experiences either of you have in regards to these subjects, I applaud you for having this discussion and for at least being honest & sincere (or very good actors/liars!).
I've never been able to fully buy into the "born that way" ideology for myself, and for the vast majority of those with a non-straight sexual "orientation".
But I understand why it came about (if that's true then Christianity (and most other religions) can not justly assert that it is wrong or sinful to have such an orientation; although actually living that "lifestyle" (having a sexual partner) may not be protected...); and I do believe that it at least could be true this some people.
I apprehension on this concept has been "explained" by the truly bizarre & seemingly inexplicable spike in trans particularly natal females, as well as non straight sexual identities and non binary gender identities.
However, not being "born that way" does not suddenly make any of these things the result/outcome of a choice made by the individual.
I have become convinced that there are a multitude of factors involved, different sets & combinations of those factors for each individual; and some of those factors are/will be very upsetting to certain people and they would undoubtedly staunchly deny such claims. (I'm referring to the now wildly unpopular ideas like "distant/absent father", "overbearing mother", "childhood sexual trauma" as potential contributing factors of homosexuality). The key words are "potential" & "contributing"! anyway...
I think that in order to have any hope of actually gaining and real or meaningful understanding of these topics we need to closely examine what little scraps remain in terms of historic examples of anything that may resemble these topics in the past from other cultures. This is no easy task, but much can be learned even from what we do have.
I think that the most important thing that we can learn is that:
1. Until the late 19th or early 20th century all of these topics manifested as behaviors NOT identities!
It is the transfer from behavior to identity that is somehow a catalyst for problems.
And the obvious reason for that seems to be that it is actually a much more accurate reflection of reality to understand these things as behaviors. And creating an identity based on behavior is inherently flawed and prone to creating complications & problems.
Thank you, you've expressed much of what I've been thinking, but in a clear and well written comment.
Self-identification is the absurd beginning of the trans phenomena. Identity is formed over a lifetime of interaction with reality and all its manifestations, not an expression of desire or fantasy. I am not bound to be controlled by an announcement of "identity" derived from narcissism, attention seeking, oppositional defiance, body dysmorphic disorder, dysphoria etc and not a relationship with reality. Why these terms are accepted by the population reveals a concerning defect. Normophobia very likely. I am pro reality testing not anti trans. Contagion disorders are historically very prevalent and numerous, similar to ROGD.
Genuine LOL on the stolen flag joke.
agreed! best moment.
I agree with most of what has been said. However, you cannot just say « there are other ways » unless you describe what these other ways are. Also, you cannot describe something as harmful to children and then state that it is a parental right to harm your children in the way you have just described. After all, there are many ways that parents can harm their children that are illegal.
also, you cannot describe something like sex as non-binary and then expect to have any ideas of objective reality at all...but that is what so many people do, and it is backed at higher institutions 😁😁🙄🙄
I’d be curious if Katie, who just said drag is adult themed and sexualized and is appalled that DeSantis would take CPS action against parents who take their kids to drag shoes, would she also be appalled if those parents gave their 7yo a p*rn DVD?
Drag is adult but it's not porn. They're hardly comparible
I don't recall knowing that boys should like blue and girls should like pink until I after I graduated from high school, but when in kindergarten, I drew Santa Claus with a green beard, much to the teacher's distress. Being green. Not easy, I suppose.
What year did you graduate?
@@mostreal907 I graduated in 1962. If I remember right, I learned about color coding of gender when another student (as a freshman at local Junior college) told a joke about new-born babies debating about if they were boys, girls, or some combination there in. I don't remember the straight lines, but the punch line was, "Blue booties." which one of the babies said to indicate that he was a boy. Everyone laughed. I had no idea why .
Would human kind ever have reproduced in the requied numbers to still exist today if it could not easily have distinguished between male and female?
Yeah, we'd keep putting things in holes until a baby came out.
Red herrings conferring sarcasm are best.
Even they knew what a woman was seems millennia later people have become blinded to that fact
33:26 even in this conversation there seems to be some confusion/conflation between sex and gender. Katie recognizing that she's female doesn't mean that she might have more masculine or feminine personality traits. When she and Andrew Sullivan were on Bill Maher, it may have been Andrew who was saying that when he was a kid he would have been called a Nancy boy and maybe Katie would have been called a tomboy and she nodded in agreement with that. In this day and age it's really hard to find a person who cares about that. I think what most people get upset about is the constant conflation of sex with gender. Just because your gender expression is more masculine doesn't mean that you are really a male. I know Katie gets this because I've heard her say it before I just wish that we could find a language to use and stick to it and not be corrupted by the language of the trans activists.
volume is very low m8
She's really cool
The body response theory Coleman is purporting is going to fail. I think kids are more impressionable than we'd like to believe. If Coleman had seen gay pxrn when he was around the same age, he might have went down a different trajectory. He may have ended up bi at the very least.
Girls have always been encouraged to discuss their feelings, far more than boys. Does this make them them more susceptible to peer influence?
@@WinstonSmithGPT I may be older but boys almost never discussed fealings with their friends, girls talked about their feelings with their friends all the time. This is what I mean by encouraged, they and their friends expected it.
@@WinstonSmithGPT you could be right, you could be wrong. Males hunted, this required quietness, females gathered food together and did other tasks that did not require silence. Males who didn't protect the females did not see their group do well, males who did saw their groups do better. Male and females have different genes that affect behavior.
The late Nancy Friday was one of the most brilliant women who ever lived. She thought women tended more to seek symbiosis--with their mother, with friends, with lovers. That could make them more susceptible to peer pressure on the average. (OF COURSE there are exceptions.)
@@davidkaiser thanks, I will have to look her up.
Eww feelings
It's all well and good to have this visual presentation for these video clips, but if I can't hear both voices at equal volume, and preferably a loud volume, it's misspent energy.
What comes before the fall? I always forget.
I like trans, feminist and gay issues cuz it results in a lefty battle royal. May the strongest inherit the kingdom!!!
Ouroboros vibes fr
Meh
I’d rather people didn’t fight about nonsense but then again, I don’t view sociology or politics as a football rivalry.
@@willisverynice They dont understand that it's nonsense.
@@em3sis yea, that’s why they argue about it. The right has its own nonsense and infighting as well, and all of the nonsense from both sides distracts from anything useful getting addressed.
I think we should review the idea of gay marriage. That question is not at all obvious and I hate it when people just hand-wave it as though it is (I very much wish Coleman would explain why it was so obvious to him to people who don't understand it. I'd suspect that he doesn't have an actual reason that doesn't immediately devolve into "I feel like it should be acceptable"). Answering that question requires answering the question "why does the government recognize marriage at all?" No one has ever answered that question in a way that supports gay marriage as far as I can tell (which of course is why it doesn't get asked).
The entire gay debate has been sitting on a foundation of sand for so many years, it was inevitable that it would lead to absurdities like what we see now. The pro-gay people never had any principles deeper than, "gayness should be acceptable and equal to hetero-ness". They never applied a moral framework and came to the conclusion that gayness should be accepted, they started there in the first place. Consequently, they never developed actual arguments in favor of gay acceptance and now there are no arguments to rein in the bad actors.
That is why gay marriage needs to be revisited and shored up.
Hi, please read the long comment I made about my own experience.
Here in the uk, every year since same sex marriage was legalised around 5 years ago, most lgbt people have not married. Out of the LGbt people who have married, more have married someone of the opposite sex than someone of the same sex. Most lgbt people say that same sex marriage is mandatory, but in practice, most lgbt people shun marriage of any kind. This is according to ONS data. Plus what we see with our own eyes. More lgbt people are in opposite sex relationships than same sex, as we see in our lgbt friendship groups. Most lgbt people are single and use hook up apps. The data on bisexuality collated in Dual Attraction shows that most bisexual people do have relationships with both sexes in their 20s and 30s but most settle down into long term opposite sex relationships. In the uk, bisexual people make up the majority of LGBT people. So it all makes sense that the data shows more lgbt people have opposite sex marriage than same sex, but most lgbt people do not marry in the uk.
Because we shouldn't discriminate based on sexuality? Its very simple. There are actual benefits to being married such as being able to register for a different tax bracket or being able to visit your wife/husband in the hospital during an emergency.
By denying gay marriage you are withholding rights from people arbitrarily.
There is 0 burden of proof to how true the love of 2 people getting married is, as long as they both swear it and then live happily together it doesn't matter.
So I wouldn't even be opposed to 2 (potentially asexual) people who are just friends getting married.
There are plenty of terrible marriages between straight people who constantly cheat on each other or get divorced at record speed. There really isn't some sort of better or worse here.
Volume needs some work
Of course, there is a difference between sexuality and gender identity. Sexuality is a real thing, there is ample historical evidence of the existence of non-hetero sexualities. It's in the Bible for crying out loud. As for the idea of gender identities, the modern concept of gender did a not exist a century ago, which I verified by looking up gender in my 1941 World Book encyclopedia--it just talks about the grammatical concept of gender.
Now gender identity (e.g. she-males) can be seen as a behavioral response to societal condemnation of homosexuality. And I see no reason why this should have changed.
*Gay*.
*Gay* pride.
Stop omitting half the phrase.
I guess to hell with the L's, the B's, the T's and the Q's?
@@mkt92z The Ls and Bs are both Gs and the Ts rightfully should be doing their own thing to keep nuance.
I think it's worth it to have a separate league for intersex and trans people whose bodies may have some of the advantages of a male body, and some of the disadvantages of a female body in sports. Yes, the leagues may be small, but we make similar small leagues and competitions for people with disabilities. While most people have either a physiologically male or female body, there is still a significant minority of people in our society with bodies that are somewhat in between the two, whether they were born with a hormonal abnormality or they are transgender, and as a society, this is probably the best way to include those people in sports without compromising female sports.
Trans activists would like us to believe that intersex people are in teh same catagory but the truth is the vast majority of the very very small number of intersex people are either male or female both physically and presenting, they just above extra health issues because the have an extra chromosome. Very few intersex people are ambiguous in their gender and presentation
Katie says that men who oppose transgenderism owe feminists a debt of gratitude. Even though feminism gave rise to trans in the first place. And as if a man would need to know any feminists whatsoever to oppose transgenderism.
you canot cut and paste into youtube.. i am dyslexic.. they have stopped me from expressing myself.. it had really effed me up
1: highlight the text you want to copy
2: press ctrl-c
3: click in the text box you want to paste into
4: press ctrl-p
granted, if you are phonepostan or on Apple computer this probably doesn't help you :x
@@Zidana123 cheers but its more than that, normally I need to write into word and cut and paste into other text boxes. however when doing this on youtube (uniquely) it has started causing problems (for about three months now) it will not accept my comments.. various notices come up..it changes the text... what ever.. thiey think I am a bot or troll and do not understand people with some problems need to do this. its very upsetting when you write and can only use 30% of your normal words.. it makes you sound stupid.. but thanks for the advice.. I am looking into doing something about this.
@@matham625 What browser are you using?
Have you tried a different browser, and if you have, does the same problem appear in other browsers?
@@Zidana123 thanks I will try and change that, I am using firefox but will try chrome.. cheers
The phrase "trans-phobic" keeps being thrown around these days as if it is about something that is a given, that it is real.
I am not 'trans-phobic', because I do not fear so-called trans people. I do not know anyone who is transphobic.
What I do have is concerns about what is behind all the activism that is taking place in the West.
Many people I know, from both sides of the aisle are concerned as well.
Who is bankrolling the dismantling of America? What is their motivation? Huma rights or something more of a selfish nature?
Do these activists that are being used understand the damage, murder, and mayhem that Marxism/communism has committed in the last century?
I don't believe that they do. They think their revolution is pure and morally superior.
This is what the concerns are about, not trans people, or trans rights, but tyranny leading to eventual slavery by the globalist elite.
thing is, given the touchy-feely culture we live in and the smugness about liberals who only want to bash Republicans as if they are still the only problem, this trans nonsense and whatever other movement that is even UN-SCIENTIFIC, the West is going down the shitter for absolutely no rational reason besides irrationality, and even wrongness. The unscientific nature of this is something liberals should get behind (but they only like criticizing science when it's what the Republicans don't believe in -- and many think the trans crap is on the side of science 😁😁 -- and they still make fun of people for...stuff 😁😁) but they are driven by emotion and pretend to be driven by logic...and bash Republicans for being that same thing. Republicans only play the far right game to win elections; woke liberals BELIEVE the nonsense they say 🙄🙄
Capitalism is a system of tyranny based on slavery.
@@eemoogee160 ?????
mushrooms can be the push you need!
The audio is terrible. Super loud intro song and then barely audible dialogue.
Coleman should channel his inner Ron Swanson more often.
To me the unifying theme of recent trends in youth mental health issues is external pressure for children and young people to conform to some specific identity that may differ greatly from whatever their actual individual needs and preferences may be. It can be as “benign” as pressuring a kid to have a specific profession when they are really more suited for another one. Determining someone else’s role for them and denying them agency doesn’t always look like abuse but it is frequently experienced that way. With gender the pressure often starts before birth with things like gender reveal parties and how the nursery is decorated. This was not that big a deal when I was born, and it wasn’t a deal at all before ultrasounds and genetic testing could tell people what the baby’s gender would be. All of the buildup and intensity around gender and parenting has created an enormous amount of pressure on young people. Obviously there were different issues around children and status and parenting in the past, too, but this hyper-fixation on children by society is very new.
I keep hearing about these "draconian" anti trans bills but I never hear good examples
Coleman, you and Katie are “classic liberals,” meaning that you’re applying logic only after researching politically-charged issues with open mindedness. Thank you.
I've been looking at more of Katie's presents on RUclips. It seems more and more clear that she doesn't do her own research. Definately not a thought leader. More a thought follower. Just my opinion.
Did I hear you right?
Did you actually say "virtuous pedophiles?" OMG -
Good podcast. Though I don't agree on the last point that taking kids to drag shows should never be an issue for CPS. Again it depends on the show, not all drag shows are sexually explicit and there shouldn't be too much of a problem with parents taking kids to those that aren't. However, a minority are basically strip shows (though that seems to be an American thing), and I would expect CPS to intervene if for example a father was taking a young child to strip bar, so why should it be different for a sexually explicit drag show? I think the same point could be made with the other example of horror films... maybe if you are taking your kid to watch 'The Human Centipede' then yeah maybe it would be good for CPS to have a word with you?
Gender expression is entirely social. Just look at how people dressed 200 years ago, or check out how people dress in other non-western nations.
Stated differently: Gender is a social construct. In some pre-colonial African ethnic groups women were reared to be warriors, for example.
Pantyhose and heels used to be for men.
You're only addressing clothing not people wanting to change their bodies thru drugs and/or surgery
Someone may have a natural tendency to cruelty but they have to control themselves. It is just not loving so there's your answer. Don't do anything that harms others just to please yourselves. I have no sympathy at all for pedophiles because it harms others.
Great but criticising good faith attempts to roll back crt and gender bs needs much more than was offered here. Alternatives?
Why aren't more level-headed, rational-thinking people like Katie the vocal mouthpieces for LGBTQ+ "causes"?
Because the level-headed, rational people don’t usually end up as mouthpieces for any movement. It’s the loud ones who do.
@@rid.h.tom.4296 Al Sharpton and Megan Rappino would like disagree.
Because she isn't that level-headed and rational. She has stated publicly that men who oppose transgenderism owe feminists a debt of gratitude. They don't. Feminism helped get us here in the first place.
From what I understand from psychology, there is actually a lot of malleability around the arousal template. So in someways conversion therapy can really work, you can condition people to be aroused by totally bizarre things using psychological conditioning. From your discussion it sounds like you’re not aware of this.
are my comments blocked?
nah
Not this particular one. Many comments are hidden these days
Still trying to find out why Coleman was riding subway train in his underwear?
I had gender dysphoria for 25 years. I am glad I went to my church and lgbt Bible study groups rather than a doctor. I got elders who were ex trans. Men who had had hormones and lived as women for years and detransitioned. This was 20 years ago.
I am bisexual but being bisexual doesn’t make me want to self harm, whereas dysphoria did.
There is a massive blind spot, very obvious blind spot with Katie and the lgb alliance - who I like - and other gay and bisexual people who say no one is born trans, it’s a psychological or emotional issue, but we are born gay. When twice as many gay people have been sexually abused in childhood than heterosexual people, it’s a bit of a clue that we are not born lgb. Lgb people have higher levels of autism, bullying on school, lack of same sex friends in childhood, a parent with a serious mental health condition or an absent same sex parent. The evidence has been there for 40 years including a study out at the end of 2020 that left wing uk journalist Owen Jones acknowledged and did a full page article in The Guardian about.
Katie’s story of not realising she was gay until she went to university and her wife not knowing she was gay until she went to a city sounds like social contagion. They had to be around gay people to know that they were gay in adulthood. Puberty and sexuality kicks in in the teens or pre teens. People who are gay know we are gay much earlier than adulthood.
So this blind spot with lgb people who say people are not born trans, social contagion etc need to have a serious think.
And yes, I do know many homosexual people who had counselling for having been sexually abused in childhood, their odd relationships with their parents, and a by product of the counselling was they became bisexual or heterosexual. We all know people who change sexual orientation in adulthood. We all know it happens, but “conversion therapy” doesn’t work. Lots of blind spots.
We are not born lgbt. It’s no biggie. I wasn’t born speaking 4 languages but it is something that developed because of my environment mixing with my genetics. Just like being lgbt. It’s no biggie, it doesn’t mean we are second class citizens. Everyone is affected by life in different ways. We just need to be honest about it and get any help we need.
MAN - WOMAN - GAY - LESBIAN - TRANS MAN - TRANS WOMAN : Stop the drama confusion and narcissistic time-wasting and get on with life and stop focusing on what's between legs and GROW UP and START MAKING SOMETHING USEFUL WITH YOUR LIFE. As a gay man I am sick of this western culture shit-storm. First world problem with people too much free time on their hands.
Yep, I wanted to know more about Katie herzog because I’ve heard of her a lot and want to know more about what she has to say. On this, I’m hearing the same things I’ve heard from many other people. So I’ll look at another podcast she’s in to see what else she has to say. Yes, there is so much more to us. I am finding that podcasts are covering the same issues in the same way with the same ideas over and over. We need more and we are more than this. A history channel I was following has become a racial channel. I want to hear new ideas, new facts and different things. I think a lot of gays - like me and you - are tired of all of this. There is more. 💜