Shattering the "White Fragility" Myth, with Kmele Foster and Katie Herzog
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2020
- In the debut episode of The Backchannel, The Fifth Column's Kmele Foster, Blocked and Reported's Katie Herzog, and independent journalist Zaid Jilani discuss THE book of 2020: White Fragility, by Robin DiAngelo.
• The Fifth Column: wethefifth.com/
• Blocked and Reported: / posts
I’ve been listening to Coleman Hughes, Glenn Loury and John McWhorter in the recent weeks and was hoping to find a nuanced convo similar to the conversations they have and this was definitely a great convo!
every episode of "the glenn show" with mcwhorter is amazing.
Don't listen to just one side of things. Those three dudes are very smart and have their own perspective, but there are also Anti-Racists who see DiAngelo's book as being ridiculous. Jacobin has a podcast (the dig) that goes into the issues they have with DiAngelo.
@@patientfirbolg3299 Coleman and John would have been considered on the left any time in American history before the last few years. I also think all three would call themselves "anti-racist" in the literal definition, but not in the Ibram X. Kendi definition. The Dig episode you mentioned is quite bonkers. I actually recommend everyone to listen to that episode, then listen to The Glenn Show: The Unraveling with John McWhorter. This will clearly highlight how fast and far progressives are moving.
On the Dig episode, the guests' problem with 'White Fragility' is that DiAngelo does not not recommend concrete political action. It is quite clear what political action they are hinting at as they quote Marx in suggesting that capitalism = racism and it is the main problem facing POC (of course there is never a coherent alternative given).
@@patientfirbolg3299 I agree with you hundred percent. And I appreciate this. I will listen to it from now on. I was in to everybody. I love that there is this side of anti-racists. I just hadn’t heard it. Thank you
In psychology, the term 'Groupthink' describes our tendency to become more and more confident in more and more extreme positions when in an insular group. There may be a lot of that right now.
Our new customized media may be a primary cause of this Groupthink, not to mention the indoctrination by schools and mainstream media.
@@deutschamerikaner Very scary!
Forgive the boomer comment but I am absolutely thrilled to hear these young people engaging in challenging nuanced conversation. Very authentic, original points and opinions throughout this conversation.
hahaha "thanks boomer" cool comment!
while I am not a boomer...Gen Xer here...I had the same thought. Refreshing...already a fan
@Rebecca Mattis
The boomer slur is a response to the boomers being ageist. They did it to gen Xers too, but the millennials grew up and they diverted their attention, giving the gen Xers a break as they were busy with someone else. I'll not drop the "ok boomer" line, but I won't abuse it either.
@@virtuousglean7216 "I'll not drop the "ok boomer" line, but I won't abuse it either."
isn't that nice of you, jerkoff lol!!
@@zeenuf00 🤣🤣🤣
Had a thought while listening. Prior to Hitler’s seizure of power, Mein Kampf was mostly ignored except by the true believers. From 1933 onward, it “sold” like hotcakes and was gifted to newlyweds, etc. The joke was no one but the zealots read it, but having a copy on your bookshelf was a social signal that you were ideologically sound.
matt taibbi describes the book: "DiAngelo isn’t the first person to make a buck pushing tricked-up pseudo-intellectual horseshit as corporate wisdom, but she might be the first to do it selling Hitlerian race theory. White Fragility has a simple message: there is no such thing as a universal human experience, and we are defined not by our individual personalities or moral choices, but only by our racial category."
DiAngelo and this book seem to me like the classic "Music Man" hustle (Yes, you've got trouble, right here in River City, Right Here!?!) She "diagnoses" you as incurably racist but then offers you an ongoing program to expiate your sins for a handsome fee. It seems like this really doesn't do anything for real world race relations. It is just a corporate CYA.
Unfortunately people are buying into it - best selling status on Amazon, topic of discussion at many DEI journal clubs at US universities. Ultimately it appeals to privileged college people who are going down the pipeline to the professional managerial class. Zero class politics.
I thought the same thing!
@@Lavabug People are buying into it, yes, but a lot of money has been going into promoting the book and Amazon is well known for manipulating the status of what floats to the top of the suggestions and sales lists. It's hard to know how true "best selling" is or who's buying it in volume. It's being plugged very hard by advertisers and businesses, probably creating a lot of demand that wouldn't otherwise be there. Just follow the money.
Yeah, because everyone who has ever had any book promoted is automatically a corporate goon! I mean Matt Taibbi, who also criticized DiAngelo, only works for Rolling Stone and tries to make a living selling books on Amazon, so why not call him a corporate goon?
shes apparently a devout catholic. My guess is that she just adapted the concept of original sin into racism but only applies the "sin" to the racial/cultural group thats in the majority. It works so well in western cultures because judeo-christian values are deeply ingrained into our cultural conscious, even if you practice another religion or are an atheist. It's a virus on our culture thats only real purpose is dismantle it so that something new can take it place. What you may ask? Good question, but these people are more of the "ask questions later" type.
Having never read the book, I'm wondering how much of that book is actually her projecting her own weakness and inability to relate to people. I kind of went through a phase like this when I was in my early twenties where I was just a very miserable person. And I tried to justify my misery that I'm somehow "different." That I'm somehow more enlightened and smarter than everyone else. I'm a holder of a knowledge. I'm the owner of the truth.
If this sounds really egotistical, that's because it is! It's amazingly narcissistic and rather twisted.
It wasn't until I decided to make an effort to be grateful to other people. And this suffocated this egotism because ego and gratitude cannot exist in the same space. And when this egotism is suffocated, you come to a self realization that many of the short comings that you were accusing other people of having, were actually your own. Other people being incredibly ignorant, was actually me being incredibly ignorant. Me feeling like I was persecuted for being different was actually me persecuting others of being different from me!
Katie Herzog is nothing short of brilliant and amazing. Been a huge fan since I saw her on WeTheInternet. So glad she's weighed in on this book. I appreciate hers (and the others) opinions.
I wish everyone who read that book could hear this de programming...
Too late!!!!!!!!!!!! You to will be doing this training soon!
My biggest issue with works like "White Fragility" is that it is inherently racist. Generalizing any "race" is inherently problematic. Using those generalizations to criticize an entire race is just absurdly flawed logic.
This type of argument also does far more harm than good, in my opinion, but shutting down conversation rather than facilitating it. If every statement is met with, "well, you're just racist," how do you possibly have a conversation?
Exactly. Its a Kafka Trap. Because the goals are different. Inherently the goal is optimising for truth, ie trying to find a logical conclusion irrespective of whether we like the outcome.
SJW rhetoric is optimised to "win" ie they have picked the conclusion pre ordained by their ideology, and then back-fill the process to always arrive at that conclusion. Its insidious and immoral, a shame that it has infested mainstream society.
We've been seeing this for years and people deny it. Everyone knows what race hatred is
It’s the same problem with Marxism. No two parties can be considered “equal”. One party will always be seen as oppressing the other.
Admit that none of you have actually read the book.
@@unclesamshrugged2621 classic partisan nit pick. "It's just prescribing a solution to a broad ethnic group due to my perception of them being morally inferior, what's the big deal? Does it bother you notsee?" God you're dumb go away.
You guys are going to have to stop-you're making too much sense! Such a relief to hear sanity like this. Please do more videos
Yeah for fools who'd believe that Santa claus is real
She is right about racism, she just has an egg headed corporate understanding of it and therefore does not make a substantive case and ends up instead delving into lame racialism.
@@misterdemocracy3335 I've heard it called "radically left".
@@misterdemocracy3335 no... no, she isn’t.
@@sarapenn6735 When it comes to implicit racism a lot of us have that but are too afraid to admit it. It doesn’t mean we have to feel guilty because this who,e exercise should be more about recognizing how we can do better not feeling guilty, because who does that help? Trust me, nobody in my left wing circles likes Robin’s theories on racism, it’s a bit shallow and guilt addled.
Very clear-headed and comprehensive discussion.
"We read 'White Fragility' so you don't have to!"
Thanks!
You should still read it. Form your own opinion.
They definitely didn’t read it cause they are misquoting her and didn’t get the point of the book.
@@SheckBest Robin says she is a racist. What can she reach me?
@@SheckBest there is no point to the book, its just hype for cash/promote her business model
Loyd Jenkins read the book form your opinion instead of assuming. Most of the critiques (majority progressive/liberal whites) which are majority negative are examples of displaying white fragility. They don’t like that she is calling them out for not looking at whiteness as a collective issue instead they are focused on individualism. A single white person being anti racist doesn’t in any shape or form impact systemic racism as a whole.
The book in my opinion is the conversation on race that white people need to have amongst themselves before attempting to talk to POC. You have to know why white people think the way they do before asking for a POC opinion. To a lot of people equality sounds good but a lot of white people wont act on cause in the back of their mind it makes them less than somehow. They’ve supported social issues throughout history but never economic issues.
Brown v Board of Education was about unequal allocation of economic resources but the courts along with certain actors at the NAACP turned into a social issue. Till this day those same economic issues still persist in predominantly communities of color.
DiAngelo is such a grifter. Great podcast, big fan of your stuff on Twitter Ziad, gladly subscribed.
She's like the guy in the DaVinci code who whips himself.
@@BonRain8734 Thats the one! Quite the insufferable combo .
You also get to pay her 12 grand to whip the people in your company and teach them how to whip themselves...teach a man to fish and all that
Except she whips herself w a feather.
Silas!
@@warbler1984 Its Silas but in addition to his midnight masochism, he has a day job as a corporate diversity dominatrix 🤭
So glad you all did this. I read this book in 2018 and thought I was going insane. I’ve been doing a critical commentary on it on my own channel as part of a road to recovery.
Yes!
When you encounter a belief system you can do one of four things. You can accept it without question. You can question it, seek understanding, and evaluate it through critical thinking. You can reject it out of hand. You can ignore it. DiAngelo devotes a big part of her book defining anything short of unquestioning acceptance as a symptom of White Fragility.
An interesting debut episode of what looks to be a promising new RUclips channel.
I'm a conservative who is very interested in re-establishing common ground and some level of sane discourse. I can't tell you how much it warms my heart to hear you folks call this madness into question. Until liberals (which I assume you are) start pushing back, I'm afraid that their silence will equal consent for these half-baked philosophies. So I applaud this clear-headed critique of these foolish ideas. Thank you for sharing this honest, insightful discussion. Keep up the good work. You give me great hope for helping redirect a very uncertain future.
I could have watched this conversation go on for another 3 hours! THANK YOU for putting sanity back out into the world!
You three articulated so much of what I have been thinking/researching the past few months. Thank you for giving an example of how dialogue should look like.
I find it endlessly amazing that it is even necessary to debunk what is obvious lunacy. But I am glad you do it.
Debunking this "best seller" is the best thing that could ever happen IMHO.
I checked it out from the library and every time that it is available I check it out so other people won't poison their mind with it. Is that wrong? I don't care.
Something great from seeing all the crazies is to see the diversity of thought from the non-crazies
Very Refreshing! Its quite suffocating to be around DiAngelo types. The room for debate or perspectives are usually smothered with shaming. Found you from "The Rising" and am glad I did!
This was a great interview. I appreciate the insight. I despise this woke crap. I really struggle with this. I’m biracial, black and white, I was adopted into a white family at 2 months old, my adopted brother is black, I also grew up in Africa for 12 years as a kid and went to a predominately black high school, in also live in Minneapolis. I’ve never been more confused about all this bs in my life.
As I watch this great episode nearly a year after being published, I can say "the project" is alive and well and digging into the major organs of my labor union and school district. This is not ending anytime soon, I predict, without courageously and cognitively challenging it. I'm working on developing that courage and cognition. Thanks Kmele, Katie, and Zaid.
this is the first i've heard of any of you, but please keep speaking out about anything. we need more sane voices
Zaid is from the intercept but hes the only person here i knew who he was
Most nuanced, intelligent and interesting conversation I’ve seen in a long time.
Well, look at you! Having a civil discussion, avoiding divisive language, not playing the victims or accusing people who disagree of being less than moral. Can we have more please?
Hi Zaid, very glad to be able to mildly heckle you on a new platform. love your stuff
This discussion gives me so much hope!
Thank you guys. You are great! What is amazing is that you are able to talk about it with so much sense and with respect for others. Really appreciate this. :)
Robin is a contrepreneur
What an awesome conversation. Ton of a respect to all three for this talk.
This video didn't show up when I searched for the exact title of it. Had to look for the channel and go from there.
This channel is going to be great! Good job y'all!
Fantastic discussion, loving the show so far!
Wow! Saw the lineup, listened for 5 min: SUBSCRIBED! Great conversation...
Great conversation. Heard a lot of points I haven't heard mentioned anywhere else. Thanks.
Great episode, thanks all! Bring on the backlashing!!
Excellent discussion between three genuine speakers. Thanks so much!
If she wrote in the preface, “all of this is just a thought experiment” there could be some value here.
This whole book is a set blueprints for corporations and sociopaths to appear to be doing the right thing, while creating a nice consistent consultancy revenue stream for Ms. DiAngelo, here.
Right on!
Love what you guys are doing here, one of the best discussions on this topic anywhere online. This book is such a fucking trashfire. I'm shocked by the voracity with which the corporate class has devoured this race-essentializing drivel. The pressure to conform in these circles is overwhelming, and it's hard to articulate any kind of critique as a white man without getting branded with some manner of nonsensical epithet. I grew up poor in Appalachia and actually have a MUCH easier time getting along with many immigrants who have experienced poverty and feel alienated out of place in the elite circles I now inhabit mostly due to luck... I swear some of diAngelo-esque race grifters have never had a real relationship, an individual relationship with someone who isn't white. They are focused on such trivial bullshit, and it makes people retreat, makes them afraid to talk openly, afraid to joke about culture with other people (which is fun, and happens in ALL REAL RELATIONSHIPS).
These people are creating a problem to sell the solution, this shit exists to make the (primarily white) ruling class feel better by letting them absolve THEIR own guilt with these elaborate self-flagellating rituals, and in doing so they are forcing normal people to endure this insidious, destructive, and yes -- racist indoctrination at penalty of loss of livelihood. Meanwhile, they don't seem so bothered by the millions of black, white, latino, asian people working for starvation wages at the companies they own. People in my own family, maybe in yours. My grandfather lost a leg in the coal mines, after which the company that paid him barely enough to raise my mom's family in a shack, they spent more money on lawyers to fuck him over. My grandmother is illiterate, my parents slaved away at dead end jobs for low wages after these assholes shipped the factory jobs they used to work for overseas. There are black folks in my community who have literally showed up at my parents doorstep with food when we didn't have any, and we've done the same for them.
So no, I have no patience for these pretentious blowhards and all their bullshit. I know there's people of every race out there reading who through themselves, or their family/friends struggles -- have faced similar. And there are people who haven't faced it who have real empathy and want to help improve the world they live in -- neither race, nor class, defines a person or their character.
We need solidarity, we need economic dignity and security for all people. No more stories like my grandpa's, no more stories like george floyd's, no more fucking charlatans like diAngelo.
Thank you guys for everything you're doing here.
You hit it on the head. This is all designed to eliminate conversation in the workplace. It's the intellectual equivalent of Prohibition. The more afraid we are to talk to one another, the less we'll talk about how badly they're hosing us.
My sentiments exactly! 👏
To Quantumpencil: If you haven't found them already, check out Trae Crowders' and Southern Women Channel on RUclips and enjoy. Very good comedy.
"I'm shocked by the voracity with which the corporate class has devoured this race-essentializing drivel."
The corporate class is following which way the wind blows, as it always does. They're decision is actuarial.
And their decision - from a pure money standpoint - is rational. Intersectional/Critical Race Theory has won. Reason and logic - in an Enlightenment sense - has lost.
@@zeenuf00 I don't think the battle is over yet.
Great great conversation. Thank you all
DiAngelo spoke at Evergreen before the student takeover in 2017. I think the fairly thorough infection of academia by ‘grievance studies’ (see Helen Pluckrose, James Lindsay, Peter Boghossian, Mike Nayna) is possibly the largest contributor to the current moment. The slow revolution has boiled over the top of the pot.
Edit: they briefly mentioned critical theory near the end. I hadn’t listened that far.
Stumbled onto your channel today... Subbed. Thank you for open conversation.
Thank you for bringing the reasoning and critical thinking. Also nice to see folks standing up with Matt Taibbi. I thought he’d very likely be left out in the cold on this one.
The self-loathing is real. As a life-long w lib - it's been a constant theme for a number of years in my life, and in the language of most of my friends. It's been sacrilege to even hypothesize that POC's could maybe have any agency in their own outcomes (good and bad). IF it's a story of overcoming w racism or an immigrant tale, then yeah, but if there's ever a negative outcome, it's impossible for a POC to have taken any action that may have contributed to their bad situation. And it's always the fault of w society. I personally believe there is a mix of society and personal factors that are at play in any person's life's outcomes, but that 2-variable level of nuance has consistently been rebuked as eye-brow raisingly suspicious.
Of course! Institutional racism and implicit bias do exist but they naturally manifest differently in each context.
Thanks said. Been missing backchannel.
With Jackie Robinson, its more complicated, he was very good but there were better black ball players. Robinson had already played on an integrated team and came from cali with more integration. He was an all around good "fit", he had to represent all black people- a trope common for POC and women, representing their race or sex. The book Invisible Men goes into it more, he was skilled but.... many black players commented they didn't understand why he was picked over other players if baseball was supposed to be a meritocracy.
Rugged individualism eliminates racism.
get back here and make more videos.
that was great please keep this up.
Thoroughly enjoyed y'all's very thoughtful and rational discussion.
Subscribed.
Refreshing beyond words!
“Best-seller” is just a stupid label for advertising, I’m sure.
Jordan Peterson's "11 Rules for life" was a top amazon best seller for 8 months straight. Clearly not a reflection of the substance.
You have to sell a certain amount if books in a given time to be a bestseller
No it really is. It's on the amazon charts. Fortunately it's moved down to #17 on the amazon best sellers. It was #2 a week or so ago.
@@Lavabug It's "12 Rules for Life", sooo I'm pretty sure you didn't even read it.
There goes YOUR qualified criticism... 😆
Let us know when you write a book that's helped over 3 million people.🤓
Someone did a video I watched a few minutes of about how to get on that list. It's something you can plan out and make happen
Excellent program, hope it becomes a success.
Thank you for this conversation
A few years ago, I was in an education class at a CUNY school where a dean and psychology professor who is a black woman gave a lecture much like what this book is pushing. She handed out an old page that she had assembled in the 70s, with quotes from people in that era and listing white atrocities against black people and informing the white people in the class that, by definition, we were all racists. I never denied having white privilege, but chafed under the burden of having to accept an identity with which I didn't and don't identify. No student of any skin tone had the nerve to speak out and disagree with this professor, though I did ask a question about a context in which a black person had power and misused it and then was showered with contempt, by this instructor, for having the nerve to question her truths. I truly felt that I was being judged by the color of my skin and not by the content of my character.
This does go back to the 60's.
Outstanding conversation. Thank you.
This so the best laugh I've had in a while. I literally LOLed. Subbed. 👍🏼
Instant subscribe after loving Zaid’s takes on Rising
Thank you! This is a great conversation!
If you deny being a witch, clearly you must be. Off to the stake!
Tell me you guys have a pod so I can subscribe
I’m here after watching Zaib in The Rising. Just a heads up RUclips is clearly messing with algorithm of this video. I searched for this video “back channel white fragility” and literally couldn’t find it..
first of all: Thank You
A channel with intelligent conversation! Subscribed!
This is great! Thank you! Zaid,love the headphones! I hear Katie, I'm White so I hesitate also I have a 6 year old and I am concerned. Kmele are those speakers in the window? Anyways love the covo.
Your channel has great promise! Happy to be sub #700.
Such a great discussion! Thank you!
Great conversation. Thanks for sharing
Excellent. Great conversation.
I would have been a little more open minded a couple of years ago... now the accusation has real personal, professional and social consequences based on the say so of someone you've never met and a test that has a 40% incorrect rate. People are kinda flipping and jittery mainly due to fear of consequences in the current froth. Diangelo is an uber parlor entity without much or any frontline experience outside the grounds of a university. (She appeals to the parlor set who have the same experience)
"I would have been a little more open minded a couple of years ago"
Why?
Love the show! I'm here because of Katie Herzog! Love the discussion, but for the hosts in particular, please try and shorten the questions, as some of the host's discussion seem a bit long winded. Otherwise, looking forward to more!
Thank you Jesus. Listening to this has restored so much hope I have for the future.
I love you for this video. I legit returned the ebook. I did read it but it was SO terrible some time ago. I can’t believe it’s actually become a best seller. I have zero issues slamming Ogema. Frankly, I believe she’s just as racist as DeAngelo. No one is speaking out against these people & I won’t be silent. People don’t have to agree with either, but the fact that people can’t even be civil or talk like people who may not hold the same beliefs is outrageous.
Please don’t get me started on the Jackie Robinson thing.
Thanks for this!!!!
The conclusion I draw from discussions I have heard about White Fragility (this one and the one by Matt Taibi) is that Robin DiAngelo is a racist.
5:00 amazing yes
These 3 are most definitely not my crowd but I am digging this conversation. Judge by character first. One doesn't have to agree. But good character and a sound argument go a long way.
Some quotes from the study by Lisa Legault cited by Zaid
"Ironically, motivating people to reduce prejudice by emphasizing external control produced more explicit and implicit prejudice than did not intervening at all."
...We outline strategies for effectively reducing prejudice and discuss the detrimental consequences of enforcing antiprejudice standards.
... Evidence suggests that, compared with individuals who have a self-determined motivation to regulate prejudice, those with a controlled motivation to regulate prejudice, those with a controlled motivation demonstrate greater racial bias
“This investigation exposed the adverse effects of pressuring people to be nonprejudiced, while demonstrating the causal role of self-determination in prejudice reduction. Notably, we demonstrated that strategies urging people to comply with antiprejudice standards are worse than doing nothing at all. This direct effect was robust, even after controlling for motivation. Thus, it appears that social control elicited a reflexive, reactive effect that increased prejudice. According to reactance theory (Brehm & Brehm, 1981), this “rebellion” represents a direct counterresponse (i.e., defiance) to threatened autonomy. Interventions that eliminate people’s freedom to choose egalitarian goals or to value diversity on their own terms may incite hostility toward the perceived source of the pressure (i.e., the stigmatized group), or a desire to rebel against prejudice reduction itself. These findings have serious implications for the enforcement of rules and standards of nonprejudice, especially when one considers that many intervention programs and policies use controlling, antiprejudice techniques. This research reveals that these types of messages not only do not work, but also can produce the opposite off their intended effects. At the same time, we offer evidence that supporting autonomy is crucial for prejudice reduction. When people see the value in nonprejudice, they are more likely to internalize it and sustain it (Deci & Ryan, 2000, 2008). Promotion of autonomous prejudice regulation, then, is clearly more beneficial than social pressure for political correctness.
...We advise teachers and managers to steer away from the antiprejudice strategy, to be aware of controlling tactics, to reduce the use of pressuring language, and to refrain from pressuring people toward strictly prescribed outcomes. Instead, it is important to encourage personal valuing of diversity and equality. This can be done by offering informative rationales, and by examining the benefits of diverse and fair classrooms and workplaces. Similarly, initiatives such the Partners Against Hate project and the Racism. Stop It! campaign, which promote the ‘elimination of intolerance and ‘fight against racism,’ might benefit from reframing their approach. We suggest that antiprejudice pressure backfires - deflating personal autonomy, tapping into external and social concerns at the expense of personal ones, and ultimately increasing prejudice."
source: www.jstor.org/stable/41416961?read-now=1&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Great conversation.
Found this by accident while cruising RUclips and subscribed. You guys are DEEP. Particularly interesting was the part about how this beating yourself up is like a religious experience at some level. I find Diangelo to be a basket case. However, I really hadn't analyzed on the level these three just did. I can see their point. Whites acknowledging "white privilege" is like going to confession. I don't see how this can be mentally healthy. There is a difference between going to confession in a church (I'm not Catholic), and confessing being "white." The first confesses an ACTION. In other words, you can do something about it. As Zaid pointed out, just strive to be better. My understanding is that we are ALL innately bad people. Getting better requires work and constant introspection. On the other hand, if we have to confess merely being white, that's a big problem. White people aren't going to stop having babies, neither is anyone else. So, where does this end? In Diangelo's mind, is there EVER a time when whites no longer have to go to her "'confession?" Could be a good question to ask her. Moreover, the idea of who IS white seems to be getting expanded by the political left. Example, the left has made efforts to classify Asians as "white" in universities. Why? The answer is they got tired of hearing about how Asians are outperforming everyone else in the U.S. in academics, also in incomes. So maybe another question to ask Diangelo would be do Asians also need to go to confession? If so, I am pretty sure they won't be going. From my observation, Asians tend to be VERY busy. You know... that income thingy.
thesewere three smart young adults and I am impressed with your discourse
subscribed. love this episode
It looks like the Backchannel is blocked outside the US. At least from Mexico.
Thank you all... for being sane.
Aha loved the last words: "Bold idea, not to judge one another on the basis of our race. Maybe one day that'll catch on."
great talk, very interesting, thank you
This was a great conversation.
Thank you for a great video!
Great discussion. Really good critical look at critical theory. 👍
"Being viewed an individual is a privilege only available to the dominant group." Seems self refuting.
How is that ? not going by semantics but when a white man does a mass shooting, it's a mental issue of an individual, when a black guy does something he represents the entire race, now I guess things are reversing and "straight white male" is a catch all abuse term - may be because "straight white male" is no longer a dominant group - not a good thing when you blame all white men as oppressors or all black men as criminals because of few individuals.
Praveen bhanj deo maybe a conflation of “being viewed as” with “being portrayed as”.
There's truth in that quotation, it just needs to be unpacked away from this book writer.
@@pbhanjdeo "How is that ?"
Because it's self-refuting.
"when a white man does a mass shooting, it's a mental issue of an individual, when a black guy does something he represents the entire race,"
The exact OPPOSITE happens in our culture.
@@pbhanjdeoIt just seems slightly contradictory to say that a member of a group has the [illegitimate] privilege of being treated as an individual, when that accusation can only be leveled at them in reference to their membership of a group.
Maybe the quote would make more sense in context, though I doubt it would be any more veracious.
Enlightening discussion.
Good, substantive convo. The girl’s right too. We need to look at history, and specifically communist history. This could really take hold and it’s toxic as hell. Pushing back is what we all need to do.
And on a less substantive note to the guy who said, “I’m sufficiently handsome.” - Yeah, you are. The cheekbones when you smile. Mmm. Nice. Alright, back to the substance now...
I’m a straight guy and I can even see that he’s handsome.
John McWhorter over at Columbia is writing a book about the woke religion. James Lindsay (co-author of Cynical Theories) has a similar sense of things.
They’re just as problematic.
Kmele, the word I keep coming up with is exhausting. You mentioned walking around Brooklyn and I know what you mean.
“We may find that the only thing worse than religion is the absence of it.” Douglas Murray
Refreshing. Thanks for this. Did anyone else notice DiAngelo's bizarre need for praise from people of color?
Am I the only person who thinks of the hilarious song “ everyones a little bit racist” from the musical Avenue Q. .... every time this comes up.