DO NOT BUY 2003-2011 Ford Panther Platform Cars Until You Watch This
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- Before you buy a 2003-2011 Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis or Lincoln Town Car, please watch this video. Although it doesn't cover all aspects of buying a Panther platform, it is a general guide to some common issues to be on the look out for!
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Panther specialist here ... #1 - the 'knocking' is actually the timing chain tensioners. These have springs in them that lose their temper over time, that causes them to not 'tension' the chains enough while the engine is off, so this allows the chains to have a little slack in them until oil pressure builds (they are hydraulic). This is normal on this engine if it has a few years on it. There is no harm in this. Sometimes (mostly on 2000 or older engines that have cast iron tensioners), the tension guides will be worn completely away and the tensioner itself will actually be riding the chain. Remember, the timing chains on these are really long. Re: the intake. Ford considers this a wear component and is actually a 100,000 mile part (should be replaced every 100k miles). Upon replacement, NEVER use the aftermarket (Dorman or others), use ONLY the proper Ford intake - the part number is 3W7Z-9424-AE and this intake can be used on any 2001-2011 car (2006 and later require a 3/8 NPT plug for the sensor port on the coolant crossover). Re: the transmission. Run ONLY Mercon V fluid in these (2009 or later use LV - at rebuild time I always convert these to V as I don't feel that LV has any business being in these transmissions). NONE of them EVER used Type F fluid. Mercon V itself is a SLIGHTLY modified form of the old Dexron-III/Mercon (DexMerc these days) fluid - it is basically DexMerc with a friction modifier added to deal with torque converter shudder that occurred with the older DexMerc. This transmission was designed for Mercon V - don't run others in it.
Very good information! Thanks for sharing!
i run mercon lv 127k on mine now and its like new.. whats wrong with lv?
@@tba6403 It's lower viscosity (that's actually what the LV means) and it breaks down much more readily. I've had retired Arizona DPS cruisers here with Merc LV in them (they get serviced regularly, none of them have ever had the dipstick plug in the pan) that with 140k on them, the fluid is almost black and looks very burned. Transmission shifts funny - up/down/up/down and sometimes a violent up/down/up on a 'power' upshift ... changing the filter and the fluid in the pan always clears up the issue. I've also had DPS cruisers with almost 200k on them at the time they are surplused - with Mercon V in them and the fluid is a nice bright pink color and the trans shifts just fine.
My 2003 Town Car had the same problem. Replaced the chains, tensioners and oil pump, among other things, and that was over 50k miles ago. My 03 Grand Marquis has over 250k miles and doesn't make a sound. Never driven below 32°F or in the salt. The air conditioning still blows ice cold. Only had to replace the cooling fan after the ring around the blade tips cracked.
I came here to say the same about the timing tensioners. I bought my 03 Grandy at ten years old and 99K (mi). There was always a slight clatter on startup, but it built steadily over the years. A couple of years ago, at 140K, it was becoming worse until I could hear the slightest a-rhythmic rattle under the hood at idle speed. Being a secondary car, I parked it and did the research - sure enough, the tensioners had gone bad and allowed the chain to slack enough to break a plastic chain guide. I bought a timing kit and killed a weekend changing tensioners and guides (the chains were perfect, so I left them in place to avoid unnecessarily losing engine timing). If you do your own timing work, be sure you're able to retrieve ALL plastic guide components. Because I noticed mine rattling as soon as they failed, I was able to retrieve them in large pieces and didn't have to pull the oil pan to clean out tiny pieces of plastic. Of course, I still drained the oil and replaced the filter.
I agree 100% with the recommendation about only ever using Ford fluids and filters throughout the car. I even use their engine oil. Luckily, I have had no issues with the intake manifold as of yet.
Issues aside, these cars are one of the best ever Ford built. Any car that can go from police duty and then become a taxi and take that punishment is an absolute beast of a car. Amazing!
They absolutely are. There's 3 in my yard.
I had a 2000 grand Marqis..... 7 years I just retired it last month to the junk yard it broke my heart...... Love driving it. .. even with the paint chips I double wax it it still looks good.... . ✌️
I guess mines a gem. Ain’t no paint peeling or rust. But I only have 98,000 miles
That startup clatter is the timing chains rattling for a split second before the oil pressure can pump up the tensioners.
Would you recommend working on the chain or oil system to fix the issue?
@@BeKindToBirds No real need to unless there is damage to the system i.e. broken timing guides etc. In the case of a broken timing guide, the sound doesn't disappear after a couple of seconds. The issue is really springs in the tensioners losing some of their temper/strength. It's not a big deal as long as the engine isn't revved to the moon before the oil pressure develops.
@@silicon212 That is practical advice, thank you. I'll be sure to be gentle starting it up.
Great summary of issues with the GM/Crown Vic. I would add these also: Vacuum leaks in climate control module, blend door failure, trans and differential seal leaks, rusting of steering universal joint (recall issue), intermittent failure of instrument panel. Remember to properly torque spark plugs. Also, the coolant leak issue was resolved in 04. With proper maintenance, the 4.6L will provide many years of service.
Absolutely agreed! Thanks for the info!
What is the torque speck of the spark plugs?
Another great video Jason. Just giving a wealth of knowledge to everyone. 👍👍👍I think you covered almost everything
Thanks good buddy
I've been down the tranny shudder road both Town Cars and Merc GMs. The factory fluid is Mercon V, designed with the friction modifiers for this torque converter to prevent slippage during lockup. They get used up like oil additives do. When that happens you get the shudder that feels like going over rumble strips. The book fix is to flush using the Mercon V as the replacement fluid. It didn't take me long to learn preventative flushes (replacing the fluid out before it fails) is the way to go.
I have a 2011 ex-RCMP cruiser. All of the body areas you mention are correct. I haven't yet reached 100K. I expect the intake to be a problem at some point. Love the car. The suspension is a little stiff. I hate the headrests.
10:33 "Budget Panther Platform Chuck" reporting for duty sir. Lol
Right on Jason,
I think you covered pretty much the bulk of it. Good job.
-Chuck
Maybe should have mentioned air ride, but neither of my cars have it so, I guess I forgot! Thanks for watching!
I love my Grand Marquis. The only major thing that needed to be replaced was the intake manifold. Spent the extra money and had an aluminum intake manifold out. Next up is installing dual exhaust.
Nice! Thanks for watching
Had to replace the intake manifold on mine as well, 1999 interceptor.
I've heard it's a design fault dealing with antifreeze dripping into the spark plugs wells and that aftermarket parts repair the fault at least to an acceptable degree.
I haven't been able to find a detailed explanation of it or confirm the reasoning but that is the reasoning I was given when I had to replace mine.
Edit: yep he got to the same subject in the video. Exactly what he talked about, he nailed it. 10/10
@@BeKindToBirds something with the plastic crossover to the thermostat failing. had to do mine around 124k but it had a dorman one that blew to pieces on a failed start lmao.
Finally some more Panther content!!! I would add to your hvac/eatc knowledge the dreaded blend door actuator problem. Only thing I would add great video!
Sorry to make you wait so long
What a job. Had to remove the passenger air bag and still couldn't get to one of the hold down bolts. Snapped off the flange on the new one and fastened it down with two bolts.
@@900bcy6 sounds like your normal/typical install lol as long as it is holding somewhat sturdy should be good.
*I think your content has rocketed to top tier! Loving the panther videos.*
Glad you like them!
My 2003 Mercury has the same paint issues as Grandma when I bought mine in December. No big deal. No major rust outside of that since I live in Texas where ice and road salt is not an issue. It was maintained well since an old couple owned it before me and they have 2 newer Grand Marquis. (2008 and 2010)
Great info!
Great tips!!! I have a 97 but it's already been ripped to tiny pieces and the frame is sitting under our 59 F600!!!
I would like to do that with my 1960 F100.
Great video. I have two Town cars which are basically the same as the Crown Vic. I’ve come across some of these issues in the past as well. You really have to love the car to deal with these minor issues. As far as the shudder, mine was being caused by old cats. I changed them out, put a new muffler on, changed the plugs and wires. Car runs like new again.
Thanks for sharing
Great information!
Great video ! I used to own 2 Panther platform cars over the years, pound for pound these cars were solid and solid well . I had a 93 Grand Marquis and a 2001 Grand Marquis, they both proved very reliable for many years for me.
Thanks for sharing
All the good information 👍
ThaNks bud
I got a 05 MGM and a 95 LTC by far the best cars I have owned. Thanks for the tips
Great video, thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Good video OCG, just found an antifreeze leak in my Crown Vic in the same exact spot you pointed out, doesn’t seem to hard to replace with basic tools
It really isn't. I'll be replacing the intake on my 04 shortly. Stay tuned for a video!
I'm truly enjoying watching your videos on Black Jack. It's turning into a really cool ride.I have a 2008 Crown Vic LX, but it'd be like putting a lift Grandma. I'm going to start looking for a P-71 for a 3" lift.
Thanks for watching Andy
what size tires you running on the black one
This was a great video just what I am looking for thanks!! Can some of the older marquis and Lincoln town cars like 95-97 make good daily’s?
Just subbed please keep making more content like this with other panther platform cars. Great tips.
Any panther makes a great daily! I have multiple playlists on my channel and I’m currently working on an ex-police car. Thanks for the sub.
Just remember that basic maintenance is going to go a long way as any older vehicle will need ever increasing amounts of such things. The only vehicles that don’t are usually Hondas and Toyotas but those are priced accordingly
I am a fan of the earlier LTD Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis square body cars and own three of them. I have a 1987 Crown Victoria Wagon, a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS 50th Anniversary Edition sedan and a 1991 Crown Victoria LX Wagon. All are daily drivers but only the 1987 sees winter use to keep the other two out of the salt. For body and undercarriage protection I have all spray oiled with chain saw bar oil which has a gummy additive to better adhere to the metal. This process works well as all three are rust free and look well for their age.
The rust is common to any cars in Maine and the frames hold up a lot better than chevys. They rust out bad up here. Chevys one of the first places the rust hits is the frame
On the trans, I've found the 4r70w to be an absolutely bulletproof transmission on the panther cars. Use the Mercron V they call for and you'll never have a problem... not that you should ever have to add any. I've had four 03+ panthers now with 300k miles on three of them, with zero maintenance to the transmissions on any of them. my 95 town car blew a tail shaft gasket out at about 250k miles, but was never serviced again after fixing that and filling with mercron V. I had her to 450k miles. Type F hasn't been used in some 40 years now with the "C" series transmissions. The AOD of the eighties used mercron III, but mercron V is just fine to use in those as well.
On the side I will say that the engine brake for the cruise in my 06 TC is super annoying, as it hits way too hard. I prefer the simple coasting my 05 model does to the sudden down shift when you get about 5 mph over your set speed when coasting downhill.
Thanks for the pointers
You bet
I used to have a 2004 Grand Marquis that had that same peeling paint on the roof next to that trim piece down the c-pillar and rear windshield. Mine was a Texas car that never saw salted roads, and managed to avoid the rest of the rust. Sadly, I totaled that car out when I hit a deer at 75 mph. I loved that car. But it needed a little more horsepower. I replaced it with a Jaguar X350 with 300 horsepower.
Jaguars are not good cars.
A Mercury Marauder has more Horsepower than that Jaguar.
One other thing to be aware of in the Maritimes there's a lot of Bondo ( body filler ) that's one of the things I do not miss about the East Coast in the Maritimes is the amount of rust
You’re 100% right!
Glad I live in AZ, I don't have to worry about rust on my Crown Vic, I won't buy one from any states that get considerable amount of snow.
The knock is timing chain guides, the oil port for the timing chain may be stopped up as well. These are notorious for that especially with that amount of miles
Good to know! Thanks for watching.
The guy who owns black jack now comes by my work at autozone..I've always loved panther cars and watching this channel gave me alot of ideas for my old grand marq..man I want black jack tho
LOL Dave was telling me the story! Thanks for stopping by and commenting. Feel free to subscribe while you're here!
I already am lol
What can you tell me about that roof rack? I've been thinking of getting one to take bikes or kayaks with or stuff when camping if need be.
Just something I found on Marketplace. I was going for form, not function!
@@OldeCarrGuy And hey, if you haven't heard about it, there are these guys in sweden putting a Rolls Royce V12 ww2 tank engine in a crown vic. They got a channel called the meteor interceptor. They got the engine running during covid.
Battle wagons with literal tank engines!
I'm the orginal owner of a 2010 Mercury Grand Marquis with 70,000 miles and would like to comment on the rear air suspension. I had mine removed, the air shocks, pump disconnected. I went with Strut Masters from North Carolina. Got 2 coil springs and new shock asorbors replaced in the rear and in the front new struts and shocks in the front. What happens is the rear air bags get deterioated and leak air and pump burns up trying to resupply the system. The new mechanical ride is not that bad, I did this as a preventative measure.
I completely understand that situation. The air ride is definitely a premium ride as there is nothing like it, but just like us, things get unreliable with age.
Proper maintenance helps any situation with anything in life, and if you respect yourself then chances are you will respect the car. In this case, a true workhorse of a car, that with proper case will last years.
the wheel well rust on fenders can be covered up with stainless steel trim offered at several places.for bout 100$ US for set of 4
That might be a good way to cover it up, but it doesn’t solve the issue! Thanks Carl
Makes me want to go out and get a Panther. Great vid with great info.
You know you want to!
@@OldeCarrGuy how much to ship blackjack down to me? May need a car very soon
@@AmericaBumpertoBumper for you! Free deliver my friend!
@@OldeCarrGuy see you soon😆😆😆
No salt here row of ex RCMP cars for sale bout 1200 for a good one 500 for older ones with miles......
Put a motor craft oil filter and 0W30 oil in l have fixed a few of them like that or if just change the just replace the filter because some of the filters don’t have a good drain back valve l have seen low mileage car do it just cost you a few dollars to find out
Thankfully here in Oregon, salt is not used on the roads.
Love my ‘03 LS.
Ok in case you didn’t know Jason I own a 1993 Mercury grand Marquis I really like driving it ESPECIALLY on the highway
I remember you telling me that once upon a time!
Well, if you know me half as well as I think you do, you know 2 things. 1) that I'm not going to be buying one of these any time soon, and 2) that I'm gonna watch, and at least give a 👍
I know from owning a Town Car and talking with other Town Car owners having to replace the drain seal because water was leaking into the rear passenger side. However it is simple fix
what or where is the drain seal you mention. I have same problem 2007 town car water in rear passenger foot well.
I have an 04 like Grand Ma and it has the same paint and paint problems! Which is a shame because I really like the color!
Yup! I hear ya.
must be just as crazy ... LOL. I have also two Panther platforms (police-version Crown Vic P7B's)
You will see lots of panthers here. I just bought an 07 CV which will be in next friday's video!
There are also play lists on each of these cars as well as the 97 Town Car and the 07 Maine State Trooper car.
My 2001 Grand Marquis has all the same paint issues
Hi, I bought my 03 GM new and when it sat for a long while it made that same rattle noise on startup and it alarmed me. The dealer attributed it to the belt tensioner. I didn’t buy that. I am a Mobil 1 user and used Mobil 1 filters too. The noise was more frequent with the Mobil 1 filter. ( While I am at it, why did Ford put the stupid filter sideways instead of vertical so oil does not get all over everything) What it is is oil drain back through the oil filter during shutdown and until the oil pressure builds and resets the tensioner you get the rattle. Oil filters with good anti drain back valves will minimize the noise. I have used the OEM Motorcraft S820 now for decades and it really minimizes the frequency you get the rattle but it’s not perfect. Anyway like your two examples, my GM after 20 years and 140k miles runs great other than that occasional noise.
Thanks for the info!
🔔😎🇺🇸
You should see what cars from the moderate south look like.😁 Try to buy cars from Texas or sourhern states. Zero rust issues but tired clear coat after 15-20 years. Theyre worth any extra premium price. 👍👍
I have a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Premium. My father bought it used. I found it for him, after the Crown Victoria LX he really wanted was bought by someone else before we got to the dealership. He maintained it well. After he passed away I inherited it and I maintain it. I change the engine oil when it becomes a little dark. But, change it every 3 months or 2,700 to 3,000 miles. Transmission and coolant have been serviced. Fuel filter has been replaced twice. It's gone through two sets of tires since we've had it. It's a great car and extremely reliable. Relatively cheap to own, and gets pretty good gas mileage, though no one believes me. It is seventeen years old though. She has paint issues, and I have to replace the entire rear end because the seal for the right rear wheel bearing somehow broke and fried it. The air conditioner quit 5 years ago. Obviously I don't care because I'm retired and don't drive during the hottest part of summer days here in South Carolina. I call mine "Baby Girl." We've had it nearly 12 years now, and she's a member of our family. She was the last car my Dad bought, so she's a family heirloom now. Never going sell her. I wax her every six months even though it needs a paint job. It doesn't have the rust issues in the areas you spotlighted in your video. It doesn't snow a lot here and my father put mud flaps on the car as soon as he bought it. And I keep this car clean. Never drive it in inclement weather, unless I have to. There is surface rust on the roof above the passenger side windshield where the paint started peeling. Ironically there's a huge paint peel on my car's hood. But it's not rusted at all. You have a great channel!!
Thanks for the interest Grover. And thanks for watching.
Love the Panther content.
More coming soon! Thanks for watching.
What yr and size mustang wheels does grandma have? I love the look of it on her.
These are off a 2011 Mustang and are 18". Thanks for watching.
@@OldeCarrGuy no problem. So glad I came across your channel. Looking at a 07 grand marquis with only 51,000 miles. Elderly owned. Just looking for ways to lose the grandpa look a bit.
@@OldeCarrGuy do the rims bolt right on or did you need spacers?
@@TheMainMan. no spacers!
@@OldeCarrGuy thank you for the quick reply. I have an 04 GM as well but mine is the dreaded white. I had to replace a coil on #8 because of the coolant leaking into the well which caused a miss fire. I wanted to replace all coils and plugs, but I couldn't get the plugs out. Anything special that I'm not doing that you might know about?
Can't beat the rear wheel drives.
I like it! I like it a lot!
Fantastic video, thank you very much. I'd love to live near ya and shake your hand but instead I hope I'll just drive up your youtube traffic
I appreciate it my friend!
And of course I own 4 of these basic vehicles and each of them has a different feel.!
I would agree with that!
It looks like starters are bad on both cars, those cars are very good car and I love them
If you want uniqueness. Go diesel. Look at the gt500 with a 12 valve. Go 1 of 1
Ford Panther: The BEST Ford-built platform EVER.
Yup! I have lots of videos on them!
Lol i have 2 of them to right now to😂
You still thinking about doing a Black Jack Giveaway
Quite possibly! Stay tuned!
Those cars that you show there that are pieces of s*** they don't have an order to take care of it I've been driving Lincoln so my life and any of the Lincolns that I have didn't have all the problems that you show there because my car have a owner who take care of it and maintain those cars that you show they don't have an owner or they have a maintain on it so keep you coming for yourself and please take care of your cars
Man! I really appreciate your comments, opinions and experience. I sure do hope you'll consider subscribing to my channel. Trying to hit 10,000 subscribers by the end of the year!
I thought there was a recall on the intake manifold
Sadly not!
The intake manifold issue was on vehicles between 1996-2001. Ford upgraded the housing from a plastic one to aluminum one in later models. It's kinda important to add that piece of information for your viewers rather than just broadly stating it's on all vehicles which is clearly isn't. www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/185
Ford has upgraded it's Automatic transmission fluid to Mercon V. It addresses the slipping issue you mentioned. You want to be careful just throwing in any type of fluid into your vehicle as many Fords require specific fluids for specific years and applications. For instance the CVPI Fords use different viscosities for their fluids because of harder use versus their civilian counterparts, they have different gears and different seals (per model year) which the fluids will affect.
Thanks for sharing that info. Although the 02 and up redesign was a great improvement and reduced the risk, the fact remains that there were still some issues with them. My 03 has had the intake replaced according to paperwork I found in the dash.
As far as the trans, this information about using 2-3 quarts of Mopar ATF in a Ford came straight from a 35 year veteran of the transmission industry. I think he knows a thing or 2 about this.
Again thanks for sharing your thoughts, but there’s always more to consider than what books or an internet website may be telling you.
@@OldeCarrGuy The known manifold issue goes WELL beyond 01 year(s) for sure . I used Mercon V fluid in my transmission maintenence on my 07
@@OldeCarrGuy I cited the website only as a source rather than my own opinion.
Intake manifold cracked om my 2004 Towncar.
Yep, my intake manifold failed on my 2003 Grand Marquis, just over 100K miles.
Well OCG... Call me Carazy :) I own 3 Panthers, an 04' Vick LXSport, a 05' LX and a 2010 NM State Interceptor and she's for sale! In the Desert South West nothing rusts. And as for the climate control unit it's rebuildable with a O-Ring kit for less than $10 Bucks U.S. A' :) and I'm looking for an 04'-05' Grand Marques now...
And for more Carazy, I might turn a Vick into a Grand Victoria LX Sport... I got shipped a complete Grand Marques OEM header panal, grill, lights and side markers... but I was ordering these parts for my 05' Vicky which took it in the snoot! Just the right head lite but it broke the header above the light :(
It's not insanity, it's passion and I have it too.
Is that knock in the beginning of start up a sign to stay away from purchasing?
Not at all! It's just slack in the timing chains. If the noise doesn't go away, then that's a sign of further problems and not worth purchasing!
They are good cars even though they are riddle with so many issues , quit honestly what isn’t riddled with a lot of problems these days , I worked for dealership for many years and even new cars and trucks have issues .
I wouldn't say "Riddled" but there isn't a car manufacturer out there that makes a perfect vehicle. Ford just kept it simple with these cars.
@@OldeCarrGuy ok riddled was the wrong choice of wording my apologies , to the average person out there they would call it riddled for people like us who know how to fix this stuff it’s just a choice of picking the medicine and what works best for us , parts are cheap , they are Fairly Easy to work on and plentiful in salvage yards . As a result I have my top choices of vehicles I prefer too own as a daily driver and these happen to be one of them and let me tell without sounding like I’m bragging I’ve got 25years of dealership experience with ford and GM , that said you can’t beat these for the money , I just picked up a 04’ grand marquis with slightly over 100k miles for 3500 bucks and it only needs just a little bit of cosmetic work , ya can’t beat the price point .
4:30 can I get a link to the air filter you got in there
Yessir! amzn.to/3LLYmie
Mortske sent me over
Awesome! Welcome aboard Dennis!
Bearing noise last forever like that
Did you mean mercon v not type f?
Absolutely.
Rust free Panthers will last forever. Even my 1995 Town Car which is rotted to F will probably last forever.
Exactly.
us Texas guys going rust, what's that?!?!? LOL
I wish we have clean cars like Texas
Make sure it has gas in it too.
Mostly just fluid leaks and rust.
lol! yup
Good video! My 2009 marquis was stuck on defrost only, so I found a video that I will link below on how to "rebuild" the auto climate control unit. It is really easy just get some little o-rings as stated in linked video and replace them, It fixed mine and works well. link for FordTechMakuloco video...
ruclips.net/video/PtfucNa6R_o/видео.html
Not my car😁👍🚓
I bet most of your Ford subs shriek at the thought of Mopar atf lol
SoMe go absolutely ape !!!!!
Yeah, nobody buy these cars please, I need them for myself!😂
Share the love!
who cares about the outside is everything underneath okay XD im questioning what I havent checked but looked okay so hope im not fucked
2000 LS
Check out my most recent Crown Vic video. We go over a 2004 that my son just purchased. Things to look for.
Personally I blame squirrels
Is John Candy really dead?
@@OldeCarrGuy he better not be !
Click bait...the Panthers are great cars- I have owned 5 of them.....DO BUY THEM!
Someone didn’t watch the whole video!
@OldeCarrGuy no, the title of the video was set up to get views because thousands of people have had such good luck these cars. CONGRATS you got me to watch the video
Don't ever buy these cars!!! (it leaves more for me 😁)
Nice try Billy Judd! LOL