How Sherlock Holmes Killed his Author
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- Опубликовано: 29 мар 2023
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Sherlock Holmes may have been the greatest detective of all time, but that doesn't mean he was above murder. And his sole victim? The one who suffered the most?
His author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
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Cocaine is a helluva drug
Misleading tital
Sherlock holmes is a good human being not a monster ?
Bet you didn't know this but I'm descendant of Professor Moriarty I am William F Moriarty V
Shorlock home made it to the 22th century
The fact people were more sad that a story ended that that the creator of the story died is terrifying
True
Not really; people die all of the time....
Stories are eternal...
Between a mortal man and an immortal story, the story trumping the man makes sense...
@@TheDeathmailYou thinking stories are immortal is already flawed. Just to pick a singular example, the vast majority of Homer's stories are long dead and gone.
But even if I were to grant you that stories are indeed immortal, that doesnt make them more valuable than a consious mind. That's a shockingly skewed view.
@TheDeathmail damn right. I'm just a mortal man, but when Good Wizard gave me the Holy Text it turned me into the PropheTranslator so I could turn the story of Harry Potter into the magical savior for all mankind. Modern problems require magic solutions.
It’s more common than you think
When Berserk mangaka died there was a huge mix between RIP massages and some people who were just sad that the story didn’t conclude
I remember in my creative writing class the tale of Sherlock Holmes's death apparently Doyle was so happy after he finished it he went straight to his mother to tell her how excited he said "I did it! I killed Sherlock Holmes!"
that's such a shame, i feel really bad for doyle, may he rest in piece
Peace*
@@LostArchivist thank you! i must've been tried when writing that
Tired*
@@miyukimoyazono5958 balls, thanks again lol
I'm sure that Doyle's mother's love of Holmes weighed heavily on his heart. It's one thing to upset a publisher or anonymous fans, but when it's someone you love, it becomes harder to unrelent to their demands.
Especially when it's your mom
I feel that to her
She saw her loving son make an amazing beloved and popular character who her son was giving up for reasons she couldn't understand
It would be like seeing someone you love make something that's both great and popular, and then just dropping it to move on without any clear reasons as to why
Perhaps it even looks like suicide? Not literally, mind you.
@@jackbluehq6653 Yes, but if she was a good mom or good person at all, she'd respect her son's wishes that he was sick and tired of this character. He was a doctor, he studied 8 years to be one, only to be told to write instead
@@jackbluehq6653 I agree with you. Doyle dropping Sherlock Homes is like a child who leaves a promising career to join the circus. The parents just want what is best for their kid. Dropping Sherlock Holmes is like leaving a high paying career to pursue "art". I understand and certainly sympathize with Doyle a lot, I too feel stuck in "golden handcuffs" doing jobs I hate because they pay me enough to support a family even though I feel I am not living my true potential. I see both sides, not just one.
I hate it when they said "The detective gave him his career" Sherlock didn't gave Arthur anything, Arthur himself gave his career to himself, he created Sherlock Holmes, it was his decission to end the series the way he wished to. I am surprised the amount of disrespect people had for Arthur Conan Doyle. I guess this is one of many reasons some writers go by false pen names. I am grateful for Sherlock Holmes, but it breaks my heart the most how Arthur Conan Doyle suffered for it.
Edit: I don't hate that phrase because it's what the video says, but because that phrase encapsulates what people though it back then. They villainize the author over a fictional character as if it was a personal attack to the public to end the series, the disrespect he received by entitled people, that is what makes me feel daunt. And, sadly...it's not a rare occurrence. Specially now.
Lots of people have to do work that they don't particularly enjoy, but in their case the work is done because otherwise they fall into poverty and homelessness, Doyle reason to keep writing about Sherlock was that people loved the detective a bit to much, and why does Doyle don't like the detective? Sherlock made him rich, gave him renown, hard to feel sorry for a man who's whole problem was not wanting to keep doing the work that gave him fortune and fame.
Tbf giving a happy ending is enough i guess
I change my mind, the sherlock holmes fandom was very toxic back then, I feel sorry for arthur conan doyle having to deal with all this mess.
Wrongs, the fans gave him his career. And what he needs to understand that his work was no longer only his project, but his product...
Readers became customers...
So yes, Sherlock gave him his career.
He created Sherlock and Sherlock gained fans.... and those fans are the reason he got his career.
An artist needs to understand, their art is just fuel to create more art by others.
Art is immortal, the artist is not...
How many people actually care about us??? We are just a person among billions...
@@hasturthekinginyellow5003 It's true; dude wants to complain about his work having love... but he benefited so much from the work.
It's like those artist who are beloved for their one hit wonders and then get mad that nobody cared about their other songs.
Rather than being grateful for what the got, they'd rather something else got that fame instead...
And sure, it'd be nice if they themselves got the fame instead of their work. But they should be grateful that at least their work got that fame...
The fact that he (supposedly) didn't get writers block despite hating the story and the character itself, is truly impressive.
Maybe even himself liked it... but he just wanted a break... but never got one.
When you get asked to do something over and over, you come up with formulas and tricks that are easy to follow so you can churn out more consistently.
@@studiouskid1528 Poor and desitute?
@@studiouskid1528 Where?
@@studiouskid1528 What novel?
A fandom hating on the creator for the death of a character? It’s a shame that nothing has changed, after all these years
L take
I mostly only see that being done jokingly nowadays, or if the creator executed the death poorly. But oh boy, whenever a creator doesn't make a popular pairing canon, that's when the really ugly sides of a Fandom come out
Yes your take is indeed an L
Progress doesn't exist,we have more techology but we are always the same,I would say worse then ever nowdays.
“If in 100 years I am only known as the man who invented Sherlock Holmes then I will have considered my life a failure.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Well while he is mostly known for Holms do at least some people also know him as unwitting corrupter of historical facts and as a pioneer of the dinosaur genre.
Mission failed successfully then.
Why though? The majority of people won’t be known at all. Sir Doyle shouldn’t have suffered that way, but I can’t consider that life as a failure…He has done so much.
@@romanovilla fun fact he also believed in fairies
@@rynobehnke8289 Care to elaborate?
That's exactly what happened to hasbros when they killed optimus prime.
I love that this sentence exists. Thank you
Poetry of ages
Albeit temporarily because the backlash is too strong.
That's exactly the opposite of what happened to Hasbro when they started milking magic: the gathering to the extreme!
Heha
Man, I can't help but feel so sorry for Arthur Conan Doyle. So much peer pressure and both explicit AND inexplicit harassment was thrown at him during his whole creative journey. It's probably the worse situation for a creative person to lose a passion for their work, and yet being chained to it for life because of fans, peers and finances. (Honestly, I'm surprised that his series didn't become more noticeably poorer as he lost interest, as that's what usually happens to most creators. Maybe that was him still doing his best despite being creatively drained, which sadly backfired on him relentingly.)
And let's face it, that mentality of putting a creator's work above the creator's wellbeing hasn't faded away and it's very easy for ANYONE to fall prey to it. Tale Bot's message about how one's creativity is often challenged by the world really resonates with me and I hope more people remember that no matter how much they love someone's work, creators are humans too and they all deserve the same respect, dignity and moral decency as anyone else. Rather than harassing, fans should be grateful they got to witness this creation come to life in the first place.
And creators, remember that no matter what, you MUST know your worth. Like what TaleBot pointed out, it's a hard choice to make, especially if you're in a similar predicament as Doyle was, (and it's okay if you want to please your fans) but the bottom line is that your must know your boundary/limits. You're MUCH more important and valuable than anything you can ever make, regardless of how the world may treat you.
Sorry for the long comment lol. Sending my love and strength to all my creative friends out there~
Well said.
Bravo 👏 (too true!)
writing is a dance of eternity, when the writer makes it big somehow it will thrive even after they are gone, but fans will be sad. these ones are just empty fans demanding more and more, like demanding a person to do a dance again and again and again and again. like a maze of passion of a never complete dance.
It's Sir Arthur
Here is the sad truth... the moment you let out a work... it is no longer just your story.... it is now a product... and the readers aren't people enjoying the artist's work.... they are a customer....
I can actually empathize with the scenario. He honestly didn't prioritize the money, he raised the price for his work so they would be hesitant about buying it. But when they paid it he was obligated to do it. We also have to remember the times he lived in, public opinion and reputation was everything. So it makes sense that he brought Holmes back.
Could only imagine if Twitter existed during his time
Seems to me that public opinion and reputation are still extremely important to most people.
Just because it was 'everything' doesn't mean it was anything worth a damn. He had the means and the leverage to build up enough money to move away and be done with it all.
@@CoralCopperHeadsay that when ur mom is obsessed with your creatiob
@@CoralCopperHead Expectations of the people can be a very heavy chain, and remember that therapy probably didn't exist back then
When you showed that article "Sir Arthur Doyle is dead, LONG LIVE SHERLOCK HOLMES!" It felt like I fell into a pit.
I am a big fan of Doyle and his work myself, he was a pioneer in writing, but the tragedy is, Holmes got, and still gets, all the peoples love instead of Doyle.
Fantastic video and fantastic description of this case!❤ Keep going!(as long as you WANT to)
Arthur Conan Doyle killed his Sherlock Homes. But new versions of character are still being made by other writers. So Sherlock Homes got the last laugh and To be fair did his book the lost world also inspire more stories. Also cousin Benedict Cumberbatch was also playing Sherlock Homes in a show.
Honestly, I’ve heard that Doyle’s life is almost as interesting as that of his character. I really want to find a good bibliography on him.
@@gamervox1707 The fear of something outgrowing you is the basis of the envy sin, familiarity breeds contempt, etc...Those tends to be the kind of thing authors bemoan about when they have something that they don't want anymore. Thankfully, public domain exist nowadays to help with that and corporates are now more than willing to "help" with the Ship of Theseus process
@@nonamepasserbya6658 Conan dole was kind of weird because his mother like his work shouldn't he be proud? I could understand, if it was his ex wife that he hated but his mom.
@@gamervox1707 Probably writer burnout/block or publisher meddling or even both. Some writers have better burn out tolerance than others
Stephen King's "Misery" was partially inspired by this. The first chapters talk about how a writer whose life and time has been consumed by a Victorian tale (a period romance series) to the point he began to hate his protagonist.
He procedes to write her death, celebrates it, tries to move on with new stories... only for the main plot of Misery to come crashing over him and for him to end up not only ressurecting his protagonist, but to find himself forever incapable to get rid of her.
Except in Misery the writer ends up falling in love with his work again, unlike poor Arthur Conan Doyle.
I watched this while reading Misery and this is exactly what I thought!
Rest In Peace To Them.
Also Birdman
The writer in Misery really doesn’t. In the end he’s sobbing because he knows that he’ll forever be chained to his work and can’t do a thing about it.
Something my high-school art teacher said sticks with me to this day: "Whatever art you're doing, whatever you're working on, it's done when *you* decide it's done. You have to decide when the product is finished."
When an idea makes it into the public consciousness it ceases to be solely your own. While you can choose to write your conclusion however and whenever you want. You can't keep passionate fans from taking what you made and running with it.
@@Celtic1020 the idea is still solely your own. Fans tempering with it doesn't affect the idea itself
was a pie
I've always thought this story of Holmes and Doyle felt like an episode of The Twilight Zone.
Turning someone's passion into their prison
How would one break this?
@@steviegilliam5685 depends. Some people have to stick it out for the sake of future opportunities. In corporations, they can trade out for another writer. Independents can wrap up whenever, but the public backlash might be complicated
That’s one of the reasons why I as a musician and artist and author, won’t go into the arts. I’m terrified my great passion for these things(music and art in particular) will quickly burn out when I make it my career.
There is actually a Twilight Zone episode where a successful writer spends all his time in his office with his characters. So much so that it drives away his wife and has one of my favorite twist in the series which is that Rod Sterling was one of his creations.
@@steviegilliam5685 Public Domain (or let the corpo buy it out and give it to someone else)
It's crazy that the quality of Holmes' books didn't suffer and he was "forced" into writing more. Usually the writing will suffer. But no, I can confirm as a person who actually read all the books, that the quality and writing is consistently well written.
That makes me wonder what other books he could’ve written that could’ve been just as good or better. If only he wasn’t tied to that one series at the demands of fans and publishers.
He probably had other stories he wanted to write and was passionate about and yet never had a chance.
@@catd5307 Well he written many other works. They just weren't as popular. But the way he visualizes and set the atmosphere is unparalleled in Holmes' books.
@@angelfernando5327 Well he did write other stories. I would recommend them. I'm just getting into them.
Excuse me but can I ask what was the name of that book I read a few years ago, regarded as his best written book from what I recall, about Holmes and Watson heading to the countryside to solve a baffling case of a man presumably killed by a frightening supernatural beast through sheer fright.
A pub that my family often meets up at is next to a little church; it's yard is Conan Doyle's final resting place. Every time I visit, people have left pipes on and around his gravestone. As sweet a tribute as it is, Holmes still hounds him from beyond the grave.
And yet, by the peaceful quiet of the place in a heavily forested area, away from prying eyes, it would seem that Doyle did, indeed, escape into the woods after all.
I'd leave a toy dinosaur. The lost world, and the movies inspired by it, the Jurrasic Park, was such an important part of my childhood. I even know people who've gone into archeology and biochemistry from the influence of those books and the movies.
Doyle may be happy knowing, although it's a minority, his other works helped shaped some lives
It's kinda sad iirc Sherlock was never mentioned smoking a pipe in the original novels. It was only in the reiterations that it became a popular symbol of his character. So the tributes are kinda not representative of his work
@@SM-ky6pbIt was first seen in ink paintings printed with the original stories that were made without Doyle's impute. No surprise that Doyle never cared for those depictions (he imagined Holmes much differently), , but once again could never be rid of (although they never seemed to bother him much, at least compared to everything else Holmes related,).
Toxic fandom: Clearly not a solely 21st century phenomenon.
It brings to mind the fans of the anime series Neon Genesis Evangelion, who actually sent Hideaki Anno death threats because they hated the ending of the show. It sent Anno, a man who already had issues with depression, into such a deep depression that he attempted suicide. Some of that hurt and resentment made its way into the alternative ending film The End Of Evangelion (a film that, while I didn't particularly care for some of the decisions about the fate of certain characters or plotlines, is a shining example of Anno's strength as a director. The animation, the editing and Shiro Sagisu's soundtrack are phenomenal). No one should have to deal with death threats, especially ones made over a book or film or TV series.
I think it was a mistake to engage back to th threats in the first place, but dont eed the trolls was maybe not as known back then.
@@marocat4749 It was the apex of the analog era too. No reddit, no Twitter to directly engage with anyone. Closest anyone got was forums.
Yeah it was a satisfying conclusion
honestly the director just needs to find a way to walk away from it all. every time it comes up just seems like a health hazard.
At the same time writters works can affect audience too. He wasn't the only one with depression. "Sorrows of Young Werther" lead to increase of suicide rate (writer himeself admits his story was written with bad will and therefore bad). I think the movie has satisfying ending. Creating the movie was terapetic both for him and his audience
From most other youtubers this would be called "SHERLOCK AUTHOR HATED HIS CREATION". Thankfully this is an amazing channel.
1:58 The idea of Sherlock Holmes almost sounds like a Lovecraftian entity: “that is not dead which can eternal lie”
Yeah It Does I Like The Idea Of Some Fictional Character That Comes To Life That Just Refuses To Die After It's Death
TBH, I recognize Doyle more for The Lost World then for Holmes
People tend to forget just how important The Lost World truly was. It was one of the first major pieces of Dinosaur Media, and inspired a whole myriad of media
It walked, so series like Jurassic Park, Walking With Dinosaurs, and The Land Before Time, could run.
Yeah
I absolutely love The Lost World. One of my all time favourite books. Blows my mind that it isn't more popular and well known.
Doyle would at least be happy about this
eh, its replacable
@@j.b.5422 you realize much of the dinosaur media we have today wouldn’t exist without this book, right?
The real lesson here is that fandoms have always been entitled monstrosities and that it's not just a thing from the social media age.
I've read the entire Sherlock Holmes canon. You can tell with the last batch of stories that Doyle was losing steam. I mean, one story was about a guy who turned into a monkey after dosing on monkey blood or something. I mean, really?
Only so many Cases
Reject humanity, become MONKE
Happened to my buddy igor once
@@Milkra same
He tried overselling his stories. I wouldn't be surprised that this was his way of saying 'read before you buy my products dumbass'.
The public reaction to Holmes' death was way more similar to some things I've heard from toxic fandoms today than I ever anticipated. The more things change, I guess.
Now I kind of want to write a story about a group of die-hard Sherlock Holmes fans who plot to kill Doyle after The Final Problem is released. Misery but in the 1800s?
Please tell me how it goes if you go to write it
i'm interested
Kind of like with GRRM. He has the last laugh tho. He has had the final 2 novels completed since 2008 and won't release it til his death in 2038
its too early for you to say it, since most authors for the biggest fandoms of today are still alive, think the biggest 15 fandoms of the internet and the authors are either alive, such as toby fox and rebecca sugar, or died before the internet, such as tolkien.
the only big artist in a fandomsphere that i know that died recently was Wowaka, and the vocaloid fandom's response to it is wholesome and heartwarming, nobody went "long live hatsune miku" on him, people were truly shocked, saddened, and celebrated his legacy and his work through covers and all kinds of tributes.
@@cupuacu4life13 but he isn't the sole maker of miku, but conan doyle was the only writer of holmes, so maybe that's why
the fact that pop culture fandoms being crazy is actually centuries old really puts things into perspective... Humanity has never changed, the internet has just shown us the truth now. We've always been like this, but never fully pieced it together til now.
Damn, I really like to hear about creators from yesterday having to deal with toxic fandoms, and Doyle is one of them, I remember a long while ago discovering that the autor of Little Women had to deal with shippers complaining about Jo not ending up with the reporter or fans complaining about the girls becoming house wives instead of their initial dreams, I would love to know more about these old toxic fandoms.
I'm sick of hearing people say that toxic fandoms are a new modern trend like it's not new behavior, it's always been there in history with past entertainment and media, such information has been acknowledged to address, so that would be an interesting topic for a video of an early recording of toxic fandoms in the past. bringing up Something more that occurs before well-known fandom events from the 2010s, 2000s, 1990s, 1980s, 1960s and 1970s.
@@dimensionalmagic sadly talking about old toxic fandoms is a hard thing to do since the only person knowing about them were the creators receiving letters of disgusting people with God knows what in them, so maybe the creators just burned these letters and saved their info as bad anecdotes, making them even harder to register.
Is thanks to the internet that these weirdos were discovered and brought to mainstream conversations, without internet the best thing they could do would be finding like 3 more fans of the same thing, or ship wars being real fights between fans "discussing" what ship is better.
The best example I can think of is Disney saving like 12 kg of Kim Possible porn sent directly by the fans as a warning for new directors "this will happen to your series".
PD: The book I mentioned, Little Women, is from fckng 1868
To be fair though the Little Women author was a dick. Imagine being a woman or girl at the brink of the beginning of the suffergate era/industrial revolution. You read the stories of these girls grow women and....their ending is the expected once again. Roll over as Queen Vicky says. I'd feel betrayed too.
I'm very thankful I don't end up like them. Some people really need some actual help.
@@juanrodriguez9971 do you measure porn in kilograms?
It's difficult to imagine a series of stories growing so massively popular that people would mourn the death of a fictional character from those tales more than that of his creator, but that's how the life of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ended up.
After Doyle's death, the spiritualism group he was associated with sat before an empty armchair in hopes of contacting him from the world beyond; meanwhile the British public were treated to a statue of Holmes as a monument to Doyle, which he would probably be much disgruntled about if he'd lived to see it, to put it lightly - oh, the cruel irony.
To this day, even people who have never even read a single book about the character know who Sherlock Holmes is, meanwhile anyone who hears the name of spiritualism would probably only have grasps of guessing what it is over actually being able to understand it - honestly, it's quite scary and rather sad to imagine your whole life's works being summarised as just the creator of one particular character and that's it.
I cried when Han Solo died
@@marleneg7794 Ford wanted to kill Hans for forever, it was inevitable
"They say 'Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life', but when you do what you love for a living, it becomes...your job"
Never do what you love for money, you'll just end up hating it.
Isn't it mesmerising how people can destroy even the best thing by simply loving it?
Imagine the nightmare, of being stuck of doing one thing for ever. Imagine being forced to keep doing a form of art you no longer enjoy
Imagine people loving a fictional character and never you
This is trully, every artist nightmare
I could live with that as long as I would be paid for creating this kind of art. I'd certainly take it over working in some dead end shitty job any day
@@theketaminefrog6366 But think about it. To the artist it just became another dead end shitty job anyway
@@theketaminefrog6366 well the thing is... in your mind, Holmes is a form of art. But in Doyle's mind, that detective had been becoming the "dead end shitty job". As in, it no longer sparks joy to him, and it is a dead end. And Doyle seemed to be a man who doesn't find true happiness in money and fortune either. So, the detective was no more than a "dead end shitty job".
@@NickIsMe171 Well that's his point of view I guess. For me such live does not seem to be a nightmare at all, especially since I am positive that I would actually find hapiness in money and fortune.
@@theketaminefrog6366 the point of the creative arts is that you cannot create a really good one if your mind is on profit. It really must be born from passion,
otherwise you read those boring books like the authors themselves doesn't care about it and the whole thing is just a waste of money to buy, or a good book originally that turned horrific as the creator lost their interest.
Stories like this are surprisingly more common than what I thought they would be. Artists/ writers who don't expect their work to grow huge especially in a short time.
Oh heavens... I shed tears when you said, "Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is dead. Long Live Sherlock Holmes!" This is so so sad, so heartbreaking.... Doyle, wherever you are, we love you and we appreciate you ❤
I just read the Hound of the Baskervilles and I guess now it makes sense why why sherlock holmes is absent for half the book and it feel more like Watson is the protagonist.
With that say the story doesn't feel like it was written by a depressed man that hated making it like it is the case with later books of The Hitchiker Guide to The Galaxy.
OR Game of Thrones past the 3rd book
Doyle never hated SH he was just tired of it as he thought there are more important things to write about
Doyle is one of the examples when one character surpasses the rest of the author's work and becomes mainly a way to earn money. It was the same with Poirot except that the author died shortly after the death of the detective.
Agatha Christie had "Curtain" written for 30 years and originally planned to have it published posthumously. She knew that also would make people mad, and I am pretty sure she really, really did not want to be pushed by fans or anybody else to revive him.
@@misfithog5855 Smart woman. It must be terrifying to be in a position where you'd rather die than publish the end of your story but it's also very logical if you have a rabid fanbase.
She did at least have Miss Marple though, which wasnt as popular but still
@@LOLquendoTV Yea I know
I wonder what he would think if he knew Sherlock Holmes was still one of the most popular detectives in fiction.
If his other works were more popular (aka, it wasn't the sole thing 90% of people know him for), he would probably be somewhat proud and at worst annoyed. As is, he would probably be very disappointed and somewhat angry. At least he could take solace in the popularity of The Lost World, the genre it spawned (like Jurassic Park, Land Before Time, and Walking with Dinosaurs), and the joy they've brought. Even if it is all overshadowed by Holmes.
hed be rolling im his grave
You guys should do a video on ARGs and how they use familiarity and nostalgia to scare us
Every time I watch a video created by you guys, I get the motivation back to start writing. I had giving up on longer stories that could be turned into a book, however lately I've been working on a fiction, that is not as cringy as those when I was younger. Through Tale Foundry I found my love to writing and literature again.
I honestly also started reading more again. Would love if you do give some book suggestions.
Just start writing. Everything else is your personal forest of dumb excuses.
This reminds me of two things:
First, Stephen King's Misery: an author wishing to distance himself from his literary creation by killing off Misery in the next book; however, Annie Wilkes, a Super fan and whom the author is at the mercy of, won't hear of it...
Second, The Real Ghostbusters episode, "Elementary, my dear Winston". Where they encounter the spirits of Holmes and Watson and the Ghostbusters observe that this is impossible as those two were never alive and Egon theorizes that, ala many things in Discworld, these spirits were the byproduct of Belief made Manifest.
The author from Misery knew some of the fans believed Misery was a real person. One fan claimed to have a chair once owned by Misery.
Can’t get enough of that intro it’s awesome. Love you Tale Foundry❤
I came to the comments to type literally the exact same thing.
@@timhaldane7588 Yep.
There's something so uniquely unenviable about Arthur Conan Doyle's career, especially considering its overwhelming success by just about all traditional metrics
Except for the missing period at the end, that is an exceptionally well written and coherent observation. 🙂
@@drewt1717 That's just how I write in social media environments. I always forgo the final period of a paragraph. I find that it's often counterproductive to write in full prose in these kinds of conversations, where as a somewhat looser syntax can seem more relaxed and approachable. A period doesn't serve much purpose without a proceeding line anyways, so I exclude it
That aside, thank you for the kind words
Edit: Typo
@@drewt1717 Except for your missing brain cells, that is such a wise and insightful comment. Just kidding, it contributes nothing useful or original; they clearly know what a period is. 😃
@@oliverlarosa8046 Are you on the autism spectrum? Your writing style has the intelligence and depth of thought of an autistic person whilst also being eccentric.
Egh.
Many people seem to care more about stories and fictional characters more than actual, living people. I understand Martin and Rothfuss fans who want a conclusion to their stories because there is nothing worse than an unfinished story in regards to literature. But it not acceptable to harass the creators, that only makes things worse.
I mean its fair to tell them to get something out. Becaue yeah, they promise way toomuch and , let people wait worse than hunter x hunter fans. And tagashi has cronical issues. And i wish he made it jut a light novel to get it out, tht would be as loved, and less pain for him.
But rothfuss, and martin who seems busy doing anything else, i think its fine to tell them that, nice, respecting boundaries. And bloody without threats.
Tht concerned holmes had an end , and it would hav probably been better letting holmes stay dead, or at least a ghost. Like i really want holmes meta ghost story.
An holmes could have worked harder to be very meta with a holmes ghost or something tomak themaccep the loss. I dont know, he was the writer, he had choices. And the money. Like even i people dint lik the other stuff,he could have like tried?
Right, holmes was finished. i dont think rothuss an grrmmartin compare.
And about what james tullos on his channel said, write the bloody book and get it out, any good writer will make othe good books. later in their career. i paraphrase, but yeah, even i its just ok,its bette to get it out tand write the next than stretching it out forever.
Rothfuss earned his fans' anger. He scammed his most dedicated fans by promising to read a chapter of his third book if he receives a certain amount of money through donations. When they reached the target, he noped right out of there. His own editor had to sell her business to make ends meet because he still hasn't finished the draft. And he still has nothing to show for. If Rothfuss didn't try to profit off of fan anticipation, he would have the moral high ground. But now, not anymore.
Probably because actual, living people are, by and large, insufferable pricks who aren't worth each-other's time.
I am not rewuired to even start reading them!
God *damn*, I could not imagine acting this way toward a creator for killing off a character I liked. Yeah, if I'm super invested in the story I'm gonna end up bawling, but that's the creator's decision and no one else's! People who do this are the most entitled jackasses imaginable, and it sucks that it's so much easier nowadays to harass creators for the decisions they make with their plot thanks to social media and the expectation for everyone to be on it. We have no right to demand the stories go the way we want them unless we are the ones doing the writing.
at worst I'd just lose all desire to read his other works and even then only if the story was obviously done to spite the audience and not because it was a natural conclusion to the character.
peiple are evil
I love Sherlock holmes, but hearing the story of the author makes me feel sorry for him..An epic story of a detective came with a price so expensive you can’t afford. It’s making rethink of my choice to be an author myself. Sherlock holmes will still be part of my childhood and now that I know how it was made and what it put it’s author through, I will appreciate him more.
I think Sir Doyle’s case is one of either three main cases with fictional characters
1 - The creator is overshadowed by the character
2 - The creator sells off the character, essentially abandoning them like a guardian abandoning a dependent
3 - The creator becomes the character, either in the public’s eye or (in the extreme case) the creator’s eye.
What an intro. I actually replayed to watch it again. I love Tale Foundry.
This is like a real life version of that shadow story you went over a while ago. The shadow slowly becomes more solid before finally taking over the man. A real life horror story.
I sympathize with Doyle ngl. I had something similar happen for me (except on a drastically smaller scale) and what was once a passion project becomes more than you can handle, more than you can bear. And it smothers you.
Thankfully I WAS in the position to just cut ties with the project. It's important for us as fans to respect creative as PEOPLE rather than just the makers of our fantasies. Here's some love to Doyle and his true joys ♡
I remember some interview with Doyle in which he had been asked why he had tried to kill off Holmes in The Final Problem and his answer was
“It was a matter of self defense,
If I had not killed him,
He certainly would have killed me.”
Fictional characters had been killed off by their author before such as Charles Dickens’s Little Nell in which people in England and America were wondering if she would live or die,
But the death of Holmes was like nothing else In it’s impact with hundreds of people canceling their subscriptions to the Strand and wearing black armbands in mourning in 1893,
When The Hound of The Baskervilles was published in 1901-1902, it really wasn’t a question of “if” Sherlock Holmes would be coming back to life but more of “when,”
Which would be just a year later in 1903.
I remember writing a dark dystopian story and the main characters were three street children, trying to survive on their own in a war country. I originally planned to kill one of them, since in this war background, I didn’t believe they could have a happy ending and I wanted something strong to show people how war destroys life, physically and psychologically, so I decided to kill one of the child at the end.
But the child I wanted to kill was some of my readers favorite and they weren’t happy about it dying and complained. It was also mainly because the three kids were very close to each other and they didn’t wanted them to be separated. So as a good writer, I listened to my readers complaints and changed my mind.
Now, all of the three children dies at the end of the book. They can’t be separated if they are all dead.
You are welcome.
You are a huge motherfucker, i like you
you should had written what you want tbh
Name of the,story?
OH MY THAT'S THE BEST THING EVER! I'm really happy for you. And you're very right, maybe this is the best thing you can do for them. I'd really love to know the name of the book.
@@laralia1972 I deleted it one or 2 years ago because I planned to do a rewrite of this (I have a lot of good ideas but my writing style suck). But it was in French and it was called « Les Gavroches ». I might have kept on Wattpad some little extract of this but it was really bad because I wrote them in middle school and now I am rewriting it.
Sherlock Holmes is in the Public Domain. He has been adapted many times already, but I am curious how else he could be adapted. Given his French literary rival, Maurice LeBlanc's gentleman thief Arséne Lupin, was turned into the player character's demonic initial Persona in Persona 5, might the great detective join him in Persona or the greater SMT franchise?
What would Sir Arthur Conan Doyle think of these adaptations? The version revived in the distant future. The version who's a supportive brother to a younger sister. The version who's a woman in Tokyo. The version who worked alongside Batman. Would he be disturbed, disappointed, confused? Or would he praise how people have taken inspiration from his work and used it to create many new and unique works?
I remember a funny pastiche in which Doyle goes to 221B Baker St and complains to Holmes about how he wants to be rid of him and Holmes’s reply to him was “You attempted to do away with me in a matter so simplistic that a child could see through it, You brought me back in an even more convoluted manner, and then you attempted to retire me and stated that I had taken up “bee keeping.”
(Holmes smiled for a second and then looked at Doyle with some genuine sympathy)
“I fear my dear Doctor that I have gone beyond you and am no longer under your constraints. The world needs a Sherlock Holmes.” Doyle flusters angrily and states “You haven’t seen the last of me!” and leaves.
Watson stares at Holmes,
“Do you think we’ll see him again Holmes?”
“I should most certainly say so my dear Watson.”
Lupin can also be found in a computer game: _Sherlock Holmes vs Arséne Lupin._
@@r0bw00d
Neat! Thanks for telling me about that.
@@seanmcfadden3712 It goes by a different name in the States, so if that's where you're from, then you'll have to do a search to find out its name.
@@r0bw00d
I'm from Australia. I'll have to go by that region.
I've heard Conan Doyle" story and the fact he wanted to stop writing Sherlock Holmes, the way you explain his life and the pressure of his fans is really interesting !
One of my university teacher once explained a theory about the Hound of the Baskerville that I loved. The theory was that after being forced to write a new novel about Sherlock Holmes, Arthur Conan Doyle was so unhappy that he purposely make Holmes wrong. Just to take his revenge of his character. And when you re read the story, you can see some contradictions about the villain and the final answer of the book. I really love that theory, because it makes me reading this story again with another point of view, but also because I love the idea of Conan Doyle taking his revenge of his fans. That's like "you forced me, so I troll you", and that's really satisfying !
You know, lots of artists of one hit wonders complain about their work being famous yet it not being their passion... and feeling sad people only care about that work.. that is stupid and those people should be grateful.
The problem was that this wasn't Doyle being ungrateful. If fans loved Sherlock, fine... that should have been allowed.
The problem was how other people treated him for ending the work....
He should have been allowed to stop, the story allowed to end.
If his other ventures failed, fine. That's on him. But he shouldn't have been treated like that. It wasn't Holmes being popular that was the problem, it was fandom being jerks...
Though, maybe, if he instead gave Holmes a happily ever after, people might not have been so pissed....
It's terrible because watching this, I remember reading his short story "The Prisoner's Defence." He is such a wonderous author! It's painful to learn about his scrutiny and torment. Had he not been cladded by those chains of public pressure, Lord only knows what other stories he'd create. Godspeed, Sir Doyle.
I like his name. It might not be intentional but Sure lock homes fits his character and the plots of the story.
I can understand why he didn't want to keep wanting to write Holmes, if you work on the same thing over and over it's so tedious.
Running to the woods,
Stay and face ridicule,
Or cave.
That's not a choice that's an ultimatum.
Die or suffer. You don't get to choose to be happy. Their isn't a choice to be happy.
This is the scariest story you have told all year.
It’s not an author, but Leonard Nimoy, an actor suffered a similar thing, when he played the character of Spock in Star Trek.
He even wrote a book called “I’m not Spock”, but eventually he wrote a book titled “I’m Spock 🖖.
Nice curse for any creative:
May you find your Magnum Opus in your youth
I genuinely teared up with this intro and the new animations, so beautiful!
He literally sacrificed his social life to write novels. And his fans treated him like that?😢 I feel really bad for such people. May they get justice and live their best life in their next lifetime.
The same happened to H.P. Lovecraft, although posthumously. People critisising him for writing so many letters to friends, acquaintances and such instead of writing more stories.
Very sad story. As an aspiring writer I wouldn't want that to happen to me.
Tell the stories you want to tell and end them before you grow to despise your stories.
Louis L'Amour was once offered the chance to write 4 books staring hopalong cassidy, only to find out after he'd cashed the first check that he had to use the tv show's continuity rather than the original novels . he still wrote the books so that he could put food on the table, but to his dying day only thought of the 4 books as "money work"
Poor Arthur. They wrung him dry. I hope he's writing what he loves in the afterlife.
I cannot explain how grateful I am that I found this youtube page. This video was one of the best essays I've watched for several years ago. Congrats, you've done pleasant work. I will continue to watch your videos.
As a huge fan of Sherlock, knowing this now is really heart-breaking. I know Doyle wanted to escpe from the pressures it brought. But I hope the fact that Sherlock gave joy to a lot of people gave him at least a bit of consolation. This is so tragic. Nevertheless, thank you, sir. You can rest now. 🥺
feels more like the world should stip reading hum
Years ago, I saw a TV movie which depicted Sherlock Holmes personally confronting his creator about some of Conan Doyle's ... eccentric beliefs. Holmes, the ultimate master of reason, found it impossible to accept how Conan Doyle could follow such intangibles as fairies and ghosts.
I don't remember where this came from or when it aired, but it was a very long time ago. I thought it was fascinating, however.
I guess these days if someone hates on a character they created, they can simply declare it public domain, and also there's a fan fiction community to help shore up some of the waiting.
It's not even that hard to have a small project grow into a "this can't be stopped" monster. For a few years I was the writer of a small webcomic. A small author+artist project. When I say small, the most it got was around a few thousand readers per update, monetarily speaking the top was a whopping income of $60 a month. If I think of it as a hobby project, most people spend on their hobbies, I had income from it. If I think of it as work... That is not reasonable monthly income. So it was in this kinda awkward spot between a real paying job and a hobby. A lot of effort went into it every update, I think al ltogether no less than 30 hours a week, usually more, and we did put out high quality pages, but both wanting and needing to put out good quality pages week after week just killed the happy artsy side of it. Eventually as it didn't pay well enough and burnout started to set in we decided to stop in 2019. We made a good 352 pages, still readable online. I'm a bit baffled by the fact that the last time someone said they'd reeeeeaaaaly want to see it continue was just a few weeks ago.
With a thousand of views, didn't you think to put it under a patreon subscription? That way if people really want to continue reading you would earn some money, and if not then you have a reason to stop it
@@pi4795 We had a patreon, that's where most of the revenue came from. We did not lock pages exclusively behind a paywall tho, we had early access to pages as a reward, and a lot of other stuff like digital downloadable full chapters, wallpapers, behind the scenes bits and so on. And ultimately a few thousand pageviews are not a lot in terms of online traffic, if I remember correctly the most we had was 62k or 64k pageviews a month on our site. About 95% of that was on comic pages.
@@attilapolyak4181 you do what you have to do. did you at least wrap things up a bit or just leave it?
@@TGPDrunknHick The story I wrote was organized into relatively short chapters, on average about 21 pages each. We really wanted to reach the end of the latest chapter and go on hiatus at that point. We didn't. In the end we stopped publishing pages mid-chapter. The best we could give our readers was a short notice in the form of a separate page, so everyone who read most likely knew about it. In hindsight if we'd stopped earlier for a longish break we maybe could have continued our story, but the way we did things burnout was too much. This doesn't mean that Tales of Midgard will never continue, I still have the finished script for the next few chapters and the rough draft for quite a few more, not to mention the countless character bios, descriptions of places, organizations, countries, beliefs and all that nice worldbuildy goodness. It's just really unlikely, but maybe not impossible. Not to mention the fact that, and I'd assume most people don't realize this, but a lot of technical difficulties just start adding up once you teak a break, in my case for example an unexpected php update and the fact that an SSL cert is no longer paid for the site means that any reasonable browser detects this as suspicious behavior, making it even more difficult for new readers to find/access it. Or in other words, even if I wanted to restart I couldn't just restart. I'd need to fix everything that broke since the project stopped.
whixhbwebcomic
Talk to actors about this, how many of them get forced to play a role for money when what the person really wants to do is act in a different project but are typecast in a role
Which is the reason radclif does with the fame as many weirdout there roles as possible. And good for him.
@@marocat4749 I just wish he could get that American accent down
I sympathize with Doyle. It's a tragedy in it's own right. People back then and now should learn that creators aren't their most famous work. Because fame shouldn't correlate to dehumanization. Not with musicians, not with actors, not with painters, not with designers and definitely not with writers.
I hope that, if there's a next life, Doyle got to do the things he wanted to do. And I hope he's happy. It's what he deserves.
Its a price of succes. Doyle was an ardent spiritualist, so much so that it broke up his yearlong friendship with Houdini. I'm sure the reason he isn't making the rounds with every pshycic on earth is becouse he's enjoying the afterlife to much.
This was a really great video. It's interesting how a writer can sometimes become trapped continuing to make something even if they no longer want to. Also I really loved the animation at the beginning. Thanks for always making such well crafted videos.
It's a simplification to say Conan Doyle hated Holmes. Even in the few years between Memoirs and Hound of the Baskervilles, Doyle brought Holmes back in three affectionate pastiches which were either unpaid or didn't mention the character by name. These weren't done for paychecks, they were done because Holmes was a part of ACD and, while he may have wished it was a smaller part, ACD couldn't just cut it out of himself. Even when Holmes was officially dead or retired ACD would still sporadically revisit him, either for full series or for one off novels, spoofs, plays and short stories. He killed Holmes off once. He brought him back over a dozen times.
Yes, because of fan pressure. The man received literal death threats for killing off Sherlock.
@@saucevc8353 The man wrote sherlock holmes related pieces for a student fundraiser magazine, a dolls house and a souvenir book because of fan pressure? He wrote two Mysteries that imply Holmes without naming him, which he then published and collected in two separate collections of his own work because of death threats? You wanna cite some courses for the claims ACD might have been murdered if he didn't write new Holmes pieces for a university magazine, a miniature dolls house and some unrelated ACD books?
I'd imagine the majority of the written threats Doyle received included the phrase "dirty bird".
This speaks to me a lot. I feel horrible for Doyle. I spent the majority of my strict, homeschooled life working on idea after idea, story after story for the various characters and locations in this fictional world I wrote. I used it as an escape and developed maladaptive daydreaming as a result.
For years, writing and telling these stories to the few people I could interact with was my whole life. They loved my creativity and my parents wanted me to make a full-blown career making animated shows for these characters. They put money into getting me a computer and stop motion animation software to make that a reality. They always told me that someday I'd be rich, and to hurry up and become rich.
I now realize just how toxic that upbringing is, but even now, just like then, don't feel as passionate about the project as my family has. Time and time again i find myself stressing over writing, or not writing those stories, so I keep coming back, revisiting that place of trauma as a result. They were a childhood form of escaping a caged reality, and even now as a free adult I'm still shackled by the expectations of my family, and even so, myself.
Greetings! I love this video.
I’m SO glad to see a channel that still makes well written videos with a stupendous about of work put in.
The character of the art, voice, and other.
This story wasn’t one I’ve heard of, and I’m glad I’m here to see it in probably the best way.
Fight on, robot warrior!
Oh, this is so sad, it never showed in his writing of Sherlock Holmes that he was so tired of this project, he always did his best considering it would be easy to just write boring or bad stories, in my opinion he could have set boundaries with the public. There was this famous author in my country, he wrote about a detective and had a lot of success, they made movies based on his books and was mostly known because of it but that didn't stopped him from writing other stories! He could have easily give one Sherlock Holmes story every few years and exploring other ways at the same time, maybe it would be harder in his times? I don't really know 😕
bis editor would have done soemthing about a intentipnal bad stoy
I respected him a lot for creating one of my favorite characters, but i respect him even more now after learning so much about him.
I wish he had more support in his life, more guidance. So he could know that it is okay to say no. That it was okay to be selfish.
You'd think the author of such a beloved character would recieve such admiration himself - not as the character's creator alone, but as a creator in of himself. Sadly, this just did not seem to be the case for Doyle. Always feeling like his was playing second fiddle to a fictional character. I too love Sherlock Holmes very much. He's been a favorite of mine since childhood and into adulthood. However I've always felt a ping of pain for Doyle, especially when I learned how the newspapers covered his passing and how little the public reacted to it compared to Holmes's death. It's just so disheartening to learn about.
To any other creatives out there who might read this; keep creating BUT only for as long as YOU want. Tell the story you want to tell when YOU want. End it when you decide it is time to end. You had the power to start a character's adventure and YOU HAVE THE POWER to bring it to an end. I know how much the pressure can get to us, even from ourselves, but if you only create to satisfy other without being satisfing yourself, what's the point? YOU ARE THE CREATOR. Sometimes a creation must end for creators to be satified with their own creativity.
"YOU HAVE THE POWER" only to a limit amount. His creation was so big, the power has left him within a short time. The pressure was IMMENSE, bigger than that G. R.R Martin is receiving to finish GoT.
ALL the British Media, politicians, the world media, his family, his friends. You have to be a special character to live with this kind of pressure and especially hate and not give in. He would not have been happier anyway as the work he deemed to be more important or precious was never recognised.
The only solution for him or his problemes would have been never to write Holmes to begin with.
Some actors are in the same situation. They are known for one role - they get tired and try to break out of that role and stereotype and their success and fame just fades:
Mark Hamill will always be known as Luke Skywalker
Harrison Ford tried to break out of his Han Solo stereotype and acted as Indiana Jones and he created an even bigger devil for himself
Sean Connery and so man more
The problem is human. They are famous for a thing they seem to think of as inferior and not worth the talent they think they have and think they can do better. Disregarding the fact they already have what they dreamed of but aren't able to embrace it.
Your videos are always so touching. I really like them.
the amount of concepts and the depths explored in this one video, while staying relevant and easy to understand, I'd call it goals
I may not always be writing, but I am always worldbuilding, getting into the characters, the places, the histories, that will make up my stories. I hadn't given much thought about what others may think about my stuff until more recently because I really work on it for myself. As I have started sharing my work (as well as my excitement for it) more frequently, I have received responses ranging from active disinterest (I can only think of two people, and I'm not worried about THEM not liking it) all the way to a few who have sought me out to glimpse more of my worlds. It's honestly nice to see most of my friends and family respond with what I'd call congratulatory curiosity since I think that's all I could handle right now. (I am NOT at a point where I could handle tons of popularity.)
I'll have to keep the lesson of Arthur Conan Doyle in mind. Maybe I'll write something I have a passing interest in only to find it go viral. Maybe the things I want to be know for will stay with a niche audience. It's a weird thing to think as someone just getting into this creative lifestyle, and I would have given up in fear of such a fate years ago. Now, I'm more curious and intrigued about what could come next.
Mere words cannot express how astonishing you are. Love your art. Keep growing.
OMG these animations have been getting better and better with every iteration
Thank you so much for this video ! It was amazing !!
I knew about Conan Doyle's story, but you explain it so well, and the animation is *chief kiss* !
Another great video Tale Foundry.
Its terrible that he wasn't able to tell the stories he wanted to. I didn't even know he wrote anything else, looks like I've got more to read.
That last quote about loosing yourself in an ever expanding world so big it's hard to complete I heavily relate to. Been working on an idea for about 14 years and I do not see the end nor the bulk of it ever being completed.
This was what I needed to hear. Thank you for this!❤
His creation killed him. How horrible it must be to devote your life to something that you didn’t want to devote it to. He died unsatisfied with what he had done in his time.
Getting to see the new intro in a vid is soooo hype, cheers to the animators for this one!
Wow..just wow..the effort you guys putting on this 👏👏
Doyle was a spiritualist and believer in parapsychological topics. While that cost him a few friendships (e.g. Houdini), from some of his last statements, I think he was already looking forward to that research after his death.
What are you saying,he was friends with Houdini?!
We all want to create something that outlives us in death, but that doesn't necessarily mean we want to create something that outlives us during our life.
Whoa! The intro is awesome!
Thank you for this great video!
Another example on why artists and creators, including authors of fiction, fear the consumers of their work. The inspiration for Misery came from King's own fear of his readers. Perhaps King learned what happened to Doyle and he suddenly had a new fear? Or maybe that fear developed on its own? But like a typecast actor, all forms of artists get bored and are no longer fulfilled creating & re-creating the same thing over and over again and won't be happy until they move onto something, anything, different. Fans don't understand this or simply don't care about that, however. Fans are often scarily over-invested and obsessive. While I'll likely be nowhere even a fraction of Doyle's fame as an artist, I do understand his unhappiness and exhaustion over being limited by fans on what he created. Sounds like his fatigue and unhappiness of only writing Holmes contributed to his death. Poor Doyle.
illustration in the video is very very amazing good job the illustrator and editor❤!!
What's most sad about his life is the fact that, Sherlock Holmes still lives on. He's gotten to many movies and been referenced to many times to count, and alot of people (me included) had never even heard the authors name. Poor guy.
M
most peopel lnow the name
Same thing sort of happened w/ Frank L Baulm with his Oz series.
I love your storybook intro!