The Pilots That Did The Unthinkable Mistake | The Afganistan E11A Crash
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- Опубликовано: 24 сен 2022
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The plane took off from bagram airfroce base at 11:05 am and the crew then preceded to climb to their cruising altitude. The plane then entered an orbit just west of kabul at 42,000 feet, this should be an easy mission just stay there relay data and then come home, but the mission would be anything but that. At 12:50 pm the pilots asked for clearance from the controller to climb from 42000 feet to 43000 feet. The engines spun up and the plane started to slowly climb from 42,000 feet, then an explosion rocked the plane, one of the engines had just exploded and the crew of two were down to one of their engines. On the cockpit voice recorder a loud bang could be heard and the then the voice data recorder cut out. The plane was shaking violently, to the point that the crew probably thought that they had collided with another plane or something. The plane yawed to the left and the pilots fought to correct the yaw to the left. Within a few minutes the E11A had lost more than a thousand feet in altitude at 12:51 pm the plane was at 41,000 feet down from its peak of 42,300. In the cockpit the pilots were figuring out how to get the plane under control, they pulled back the right hand engine to idle to make sure that the engine damage it self even more than it already was. Seconds after that they had turned off the right hand engine. To help slow their fall the left hand engine was then increased in power. But to the confusion of the crew the plane did not stabilize the vibrations eased up for a bit but then it was right back where they started and much to the concern of the crew they watched as the left hand engine now gave up on them, the needle on the console rolled back the left hand engine was rolling back as well. This crew was now left without power. Both their engines had failed. Now they needed to get this plane on the ground as soon as possible before the altitude that they had given out. On the display, a large warning appeared, dual engine out. The pilots immediately got on the radio with kabul ATC and then let them know that they had lost both engines. The crew then started on the dual engine out checklist to prep their plane for a potential restart of the engines. The pilots were going for something known as a windmill restart. Right now the plane was flying fast enough that the air flow would keep the core of the engines spinning getting the engines started right now would be a lot simpler when you compare it to something like starting it when the plane was much much slower. The pilots were aiming for kandahar airport which was well outside the glide capabilities of the E11A and the pilots knew that but they were sure that they could get atleast one of their engines back online. But time was not on their side that day from 30,000 feet they could stay in the air for a grand total of 12 minutes, if they couldnt get the engines going in that time then they were looking at landing somewhere in the harsh afghani desert. But unluckily for the pilots of the E11A the engines would not light, they now had to put this plane on the ground somewhere, the thing is when the emergency started they could have easily made it to either kabul or the forward operating base shank. Then at 13:09 pm the plane impacted killing both pilots. As soon as the plane crashed the emergency locator on the plane went off and A10s in the area were rerouted to find the wreck of the plane. Unfortunateluy due to the weather in the area recovery efforts could not be started immediately. With the investigators would have to wait for a bit before they got their hands on the wreck of the plane but in the mean time they could study what the pilots did. For some reason air crews in the r 
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Sounds more like overwhelmed than overconfident.
Yeah but then the government would have to actually do something to keep it from happening again, gotta love the modern US military
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment!!!🙏😢✈️🤔
Well, it's sometimes hard to decide which engine has problems when there are severe vibrations involved. Having once had a similar occurrence, we made the easiest choice and retarded both engines to idle, waited a minute and then advanced one by one to see which one increased the over all vibration... I know, hindsight is always 20:20... The tragedy lies therein that they had both in ample supply: Altitude and airports in the vicinity... RIP
This is the correct procedure. It will determine which engine is bad and you can use the good one to buy time to formulate a plan.
That is why there are vibration sensors. This looks like a totally predictable human error that can be 99% designed out assuming no other confounding issue.
Kinda hard to tell which engine is vibrating when they're practically right next to each other :/
Makes sense. At 42,000 feet there is no need to panic and rush.
@@briant7265 yup.. "wind your watch" as they say. As long as you don't overspeed, you have some time.
Sunday will always be the best day of the week so long as these videos exist!! Been here since roughly 140-45k subs and it’s amazing to see your channel’s growth thus far! You always show how much you care about the details of these cases, and make it simple enough for non-aviators to understand. Will be here when you hit 200k and beyond! Keep up the amazing work, and of course, stay safe!
I’m still not sure why modern aircraft aren’t equipped with cameras that visually monitor the engines to enable a swifter analysis of major failures. I can think of many incidents with awful outcomes which could’ve been avoided by such simple measures.
This reminded me of the Kegworth disaster (British Midlands 092).
If the airplane yawed to the left; very strong indicator that the left engine is the problem child
Bagram was never designated as an Air Force Base, because of it being an air force installation on foreign soil, so, it was designated as an Air Base. Also, this aircraft's designation is "E-Eleven A", not "E-One One A".
Left right issues might have been prevented by a more graphical and intuitive presentation of left and right and right engine statuses.
... or even just a bit of code that threw a message like "there are no warnings related to the right engine, are you sure you want to shut it down?"
How about an audio warning that specifies which engine?
Yes this really was reminiscent of Kegworth (British MIdland 92), was this the civilian incident you were referencing, MACI? I recall that after Kegworth there was a lot of debate about why planes couldn't just have cameras installed to view both engines, rather like the ones that let you view the underside of the plane during takeoff. Kegworth happened in early 1989 and it doesn't seem like much has changed since then in trying to remedy this rare but potentially disastrous fault.
I was wondering the same thing myself with the reference to the civilian crew.
There is a somewhat recent crash in Taiwan where the pilot shut off his one good engine in error when taking off.
What exactly do you expect the camera to show? Usually a failed engine would still be rotating and wouldn't look any different.
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I’m currently doing my multi engine class rating, and there’s a procedure in propeller planes that before you feather the propeller of the engine you think failed, you verify that it is indeed the failed engine by pulling the power back to idle. If the attitude of the plane doesn’t change, you can feather the propeller as your assumption was correct
That doesn’t necessarily work, the British Midland crash at kegworth is an example where they assumed that because the vibrations reduced they had correctly identified the problem engine, but they hadn’t.
Also the E-11 BACN (battlefield airborne communications node) is essentially a non space based satellite which was developed as result of comms failure during operation red wings
I spent the last ten years of my flying career in Afghanistan, initially based Kabul flying UN contracts then as a contract pilot for the military, army then air force... I know the country well. The idea that a crew, experienced and qualified enough to be trusted with that aircraft, would make such an insane decision while overhead Kabul with altitude to glide to Bagram, both having huge runways and Bagram with an easy approach, would instead elect to set off to the other end of the country with two engines out beggars' belief. The initial problem caused the aircraft to veer to the left, that alone was an indication that the left engine had a problem, and at 40+ thousand feet, however much vibration was being experienced, the aircraft was under control and time was on their side. It sounds to me that this crew would have benefitted from a good many more hours in the simulator.
There was a highly experienced and highly respected retired Navy pilot who crashed his plane just after takeoff.
This guy was one of the best pilots around yet the investigation showed that he had taken off with the control lock in place.
It just goes to show, no matter how good you are, no matter how smart you are, no matter how experienced you are, you will never ever be immune from making a stupid mistake.
Any time I hear the phrase "You could such a good (whatever) make such a dumb mistake?"
I just think, Because they are human.
was there a specific reason why they were not able to re-ignite the "good" engine? i mean, they were fast enough for windmill start..
They did not try to restart the good engine because they thought it was the damaged one. They were only trying to restart the damaged engine.
Why in the world would they not have pulled the engine they thought was damaged to idle and see if the vibration lowered instead of shutting it down?
Finally got that audio worked out. Watched tons of your videos, and this was the basically the first one that I didn't have to have CC enabled and read it.
Another great thing is that he doesn't use any music. More and more videos they're using background (and not so backgroundy) music which makes it both annoying and hard to hear the speaker. Unless I am watching a music video, I don't want music in videos. They seem to think it adds drama or emotion or whatever. It doesn't do that all. Just serves to tick me off. Mentour does it and his videos are becoming unwatchable unless you turn on cc, but then the auto cc doesn't always get the words right.
A similar mistake was made with British Midland flight 92.
That's what it reminded me of when he was talking about the signs.
The raid shadow legends ad read sounded like another MACI video in itself. 😂
I remember another video you did about a stricken carrier launched fighter that couldn’t get back, but refused to divert. Was this the same general reluctance to divert? It being seen as a failure or something.
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If the right hand engine was fine then how come the restart did not work?
Excellent question.
Having been an instructor on this family of aircraft and a check airman with about 7000. We trained and trained and trained on single engine procedures. This is a common issue in the simulator. I’m guessing but I’d say 1-20 sim scenarios we put a crew under a great deal of stress, they end up shutting down the good engine. Night time and creating distractions in additon to the engine failure, like severe buffeting or an I trimmed flight control causing the pilots to ponder structural problems can make matters far worse.
I'd love to hear more about airforce/military crashes as that's not something that gets a lot of attention. That is, if there is information released about them.
I'm wondering if that fact that they're over hostile territory had an impact. Could they have been wondering who shot at them, rather than handling their aircraft?
It was only "hostile territory" because they were the invading force
At 43,000 ft ??
@@232K7 sure. Gary Powers was at around 70,000 when they got him in 1960. 43,000 ft is well above MANPADS but others systems can get that high easily. Plus it's not unknown for blue on blue interceptions to occur.
@@Rapscallion2009 you can't possibly be comparing these sand jawas to the Russians; that's like comparing an anteater to... well, ants
The Swiss cheese theory. A series of mistakes had the result.
Another great video
Operation: X "Freedom"
Operation: "Freedom" Y
...
Yeah... They are soooo good at naming stuff...
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I was just thinking it sounded like Kegworth, then you said it. Given that it's happened before, it seems surprising that with all the modern tech there isn't some way of warning that the wrong engine is being shut down.
What I had heard during training on a similar aircraft was that the vibrations were bad enough to make the displays unreadable. And it was an unfortunate coincidence that when they pulled number 2 to idle that the vibrations happened to subside.
Aren't there checklists they have to go through for an engine failure or an indication on engine control section? The only way I can think of that would make sense would be if the vibrations are so bad that they are unable to see the instruments or checklists.
It's a shame there was not more information about the crash itself. It's super sad to think that the crew could not find a safe landing site. For example, glider pilots outland safely all the time and I've been out multiple times in a Pawnee (basically a tractor with wings!) into these fields to collect and tow the glider back the airport.
So I'm well aware that an E11A is not a Pawnee, but it would be interesting to know why the pilots died trying to outland this twin jet.
Sounded like the ground weather was really bad if even SAR wasn't able to get there for some time, chances are they flew blind into the ground :/
terrain?
This is the second incident I watched when pilots shut down the wrong engine. First I watched was about British Midland Airways Flight 092. Just surprised, how much cost would it take to give the pilots a real time view of all engines? Doesn't this look weird that now even the cheapest cars have multiple cameras to provide the driver with the real time view of the car and its surrounding but pilots still have no visuals except their instruments to determine what happened to their plane. (This looks a joke but sometime I feel both these accidents could have been avoided if pilot's side windows just had a back-view mirror like a car does have)
The cost of a small camera vs the cost of a plane...
Thank you for the video, but the last one was only 3 days ago. Don't hurry your self.
3:39 Getting the aircraft on the ground as fast as possible would not have been a very good idea
When something goes wrong there are too many alarms and mags all at once, that with the shock of your plane violently shaking is a lot to take in. I think warnings need to be simpler and more direct and in the order of importance.
Good stuff.
I think you meant packed to the hilt. Otherwise brilliant as usual.
Yeah, the guy uses strange sounding expressions that sound frankly kind of gay.
Sad story, no pilot here but I'd set both engines to idle to diminish vibration and prevent faulty engine falling apart and then assess what the trouble amounted to.
They are following their checklists like they are suppose to...
@@nihlify That's probably it but that apparently didn't buy them the necessary time to decide which engine could best be stopped. Was this a freak incident, did they incorrectly interpret the checklist, was the checklist at fault?
It wasn't that they lacked altitude or time to react. (Just wondering as a couch potato).
Fascinating and horrific, thank you
No, please. Not raid. You can get better sponsors I promise you.
Don't complain, non of us are going to play Raid. Let him get paid for his work and support it. I hate Raid ads as much as the next person but for a small channel like this it is a big step into sponsorships, and means he is actually getting paid for his work... meaning he can do more videos we all enjoy.
I'd be interesting in seeing an assessment of why military pilots are reluctant to divert. I would expect the training to heavily encourage diverting to the nearest safest landing zone as soon as the aircraft is endangered. Is there some culture of mocking when pilots divert? Are they on some level punished on the ground? Is there so much extra paperwork? If this really is a problem, then it needs solving yesterday. (Also, is this isolated to the US military, or does it expand to other countries)
If you divert, now the CO has to put together a maintenance party and get them and their equipment to the divert airfield. Nobody wants to piss off the CO.....
@@bbeen40 That seems significantly better than the CO having to deal with a plane crash and dead crew.
He did say they were in hostile territory, that may have played a factor on diverting
When your car makes a funny noise, a strange smell or stalls some on acceleration do you immediately go to the nearest car shop or do you head for home? Sometimes it really is that simple. Also, like a lot of flights that end badly... up until that last second everything the crew EVER encountered ended well so why wouldn't this situation end in their favor?
@@JIMJAMSC Being able to recognize the big picture is pretty essential. If your car starts acting up it is an issue but rarley a dangerous one. However if you are driving through the wilderness in the winter and you have a mechanical issue you should divert or return if you can recognize the danger you could potentially be in. Just because up to this point you haven't had a fatality isn't a reason to be reckless. A duel engine failure is about as bad as it can get other then loss of control for an aircraft...
"...killing both pilots."
My heart sank after hearing this.
RIP
I don't know much about this particular design, but it sounds very similar to the CRJ-200 aircraft, which doesn't allow the use of the APU at a higher altitude as its competitor, instead it forces their pilots into a much lower altitude descending in order to start the APU or in some cases to try to do an airstart. That's just crazy in my book, especially on a twin engine aircraft.
The pilots it seems, they were more than confident; they were overwhelmed and stressed out by their dilemma.
RIP to all aboard that aircraft.
I'm 3:30 in and it sounds like they shut down the wrong engine, like in British Midland Flight 92.
I’m a little confused by some of the information in this video. The origination in the Wikipedia for this mission is Khandahar. Also, the BACN mission they were a part of was based there. So trying to route back to that base is more understandable than just wanting to get there instead of Kabul. RIP LtCol Paul Voss and Cpt. Ryan Phaneuf.
When you said "the unthinkable mistake", I thought you meant retracting the gear while on the runway.
Switching off the wing engine seems to occur more often than I thought.
First rule of any emergency: Don't panic.
Surely fault code *L ENG Flameout* should have pointed them to tshoot this issue faster ?
Sounds like an echo of Midlands flight 92. Extreme vibration can easily disorient pilots and it’s been proven before so i wouldn’t say overconfident is the right word
Easy to have opinions until you are in the air and things go wrong; sometimes even the best training can’t save you
You have it right I think. If there is an explosion and the cockpit is shaking so mutch that you can't see the instruments .... well it would be so easy to cock it up. The CVR was knocked out and that is supposed to be crash proof ! You'd think that the plane would break up if you didn't shut down. But why did the duel restart fail if the R/H engine was good ?
The same happened with a 737 years ago.
Shuting down the wrong engine on a multiengine airplane is really easy, the levers are next to each other and the situation is fast and stressfull. That is why pilots are trained to do the right procedure, verify dead engine and secure it. But in a noisy vibrating cockpit it is very difficult to do the right thing, startle factor is strong
How come they weren't able to re-start the engine that was un-damaged? They had 12 minutes to go through the dual flame-out re-start checklist and get it re-started. Did I miss something?
You did not.
Comments seem to indicate that in the armed forces, there's an exponentially worse stigma against diverting (for any reason!) than in commercial aviation - a perception that "If you divert, you're a failure. You blew the mission." Military training probably makes for a much higher susceptibility to completion bias...
I remember when this crash was reported as '83 killed in ariana airlines crash'
Does this plane not have a dedicated engine out light for each side?
Maybe it's me, but shutting down wrong engine seems to happen more than it should!!!🙏😢✈️🤔
Holy crap, I actually know what this one feels like! I'm not a pilot IRL, but I have made that mistake in a sim. Granted, there was no real danger, but I didn't figure out what the hell I'd done until until I was 12000 ASL over the Wasatch Front and worried about getting between some of the peaks before I realized I suck again. I was messing around and went through a checklist, ended up fixing half the problem when I attempted a restart on both engines.
After looking at the warning lights, it seems there could be some improvements on the display.
When I watched this, I did think of Kegworth straight away.
( At minute 02:20 of this report ) the plane yaws to the left and the pilot shot down Right engine ... Amazing
Seems to me that the instruments simply didn't tell them in a clear fashion what they needed to know, which of the engines was damaged and causing all the vibration. Which could be considered an ergonomic problem. I appreciate that the good engine was being shaken by the damaged one, but the damaged one should be showing more vibration. In some ways this is a bit reminiscent of the Kegworth air diaster.
Basically the military edition of British Midland Flight 92!
What about operation run away?
I agree with Charles Schneider. Idling them back and bringing each one up a little at a time, watching for vibrations, would tell which one was failing. And prayer. Don't forget prayer. God hears every prayer you make to him and the prayers of the saints rise like laser beams into the heavenlies. 🙏
And the question of why crews didn't want to divert goes unanswered.
Sometimes it is because there aren't the right kind of technicians available at the outlying bases, or somebody is going to end up taking a helicopter ride to get back to their own base (or out to fix the diverted plane).
Add voice warning feature to alert the pilots on left or right engines.
Killing both pilots?! Why is this in the happy endings playlist 😭😭
The one question which was not addressed in this video was why were so many pilots seriously reluctant to go to any of the other (nearer) airports other than Kandaha? Might this have something to do with the degree of security at these other airports - as in, they might get shot down by enemy missiles or enemy fire?
They were above 41000 feet which would have given the cocky crew plenty of time! Not as if they were only at a few thousand feet...
Much less like the Kegsworth (Manchester Airport) disaster.... More similar to that crash into a highway then river in Taipei. The BMI flight had multiple reasons to select the wrong engine, whilst the Taiwanese crew did so in a hurry without proper procedure.
i love your show but hate ads so i must say im SOOOOO glad we can skip implanted commercials.
Why not roll-back both engines to idle, reducing vibrations, then add thrust to each engine, in turn, for diagnosis?
Similar to our 939th RQW loss of King56; A MSgt didn’t turn the fuel lever to transfer fuel and 11 of 12 airmen died in the Pacific Ocean. Sad days
Similar to the BMI 737 crash in England. The pilots shut off the wrong engine.
Foe this accident the major issue is poor aircrew performance. With a large twin engined aircraft there is no need to rush through an engine shutdown procedure. This isn't a single engined jet! Two pilots, modern jet, 40000 ft do the checks!
Did they try to restart both engines or just the failed one?
Seems like there are a number of accidents where pilots get the sides mixed up.
Doesn't somehow add up. You said that the pilots tried to restart the engines. Or was it that they just tried to restart the wrong engine (left) and didn't try the right engine which was just fine.
To think that you should put an unpowered aircraft down as fast as possible is a stupid tactic. Best to sit back and fly the glider. Nose up. Speed up. Be cool. Calculate your long run trajectory. Do NOT "try to put it down as soon as possible." That is stupid. Ever heard of The Gimli Glider? You are a good lad doing good work. People forget aircraft can glide. If remembered, it can save their lives.
That’s sad!
The aircraft your show in the video is an RAF Sentinel R1 (but in USAF colours) (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raytheon_Sentinel). The E11A (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_Air_Force_E-11A_crash) looks much more like a standard Global Express. However, if you look carefully you can see the modifications but these are certainly far from as extensive as the Sentinel. These have now been withdrwan from RAF service ant at least 1 has be reregisterd into the US aircraft registry.paylpad is problem free.
No one really knows whats goin on in the cockpit or what the pilots state of mind was
I can't believe that my entry-level car has a reversing camera as standard, yet multi-million aircraft have no way for the crew to see what is actually happening to their engines and flight surfaces from the cockpit.
My boy blowin up. He officially got the RAID Shitlegends sponsorship.
Congrats buddy.
Oh, my other left!
you need the emojis in the description
It's fairly easy to make a mistake even in a car as to which wheel has the problem. In an airplane it could not be any easier and very likely much worse, I have read of other air crashes where this phenomenon occurred. Can one of those warning explanation readers be turned back so one can see an earlier event? This would seem almost to be a mandatory capability if you are going to use the kind of instrument portrayed in the video.
Mini!!!!
You mentioned early in the video that you would get back to why the pilots preferred to land in Kandahar but it seems you forgot about it. I still would like to know why that was the case. :)
You mentioned that the pilots in the area only wanted to go to Kandahar field instead of the others, but it didn't seem like you followed up on that line. Why didn't they like the other airfields?
Likely because the other airfields have almost zero amenities, so they will be stuck there for a few days, before any sort of repairs can be done, or even before they could get fuel, and they would be stuck there, sleeping out in a camo net in the plane itself, as there would probably be nothing available at a less serviced airfield. When they say airfield you often have a runway, lots of fence and dugouts, and sandbags with netting for hangers, and if you are lucky a few tents all live in, and a meal plan of MRE's. Real lucky a working shower and toilet block, but often only a water tanker, that arrives once a week to fill up dozens of drums.
Been there done that, though not in that sandhole. We had luxuries, like actual electric lighting, and a semi decent mobile mess, and entire service crews. My trainers spent that entire time plastered, as they lived in the bar from open hour till close. We also had a town only 12km walk away, so at least an hour between when we were done for the day, and the town rolled up the sidewalks at 5PM, to sightsee. We bought a lot of KFC, seeing as often the cooks went with, and gave hints about what they thought of the offerings that night. You could not get lost, only lights for 100km in any direction, and the only road. Plus cold at nights, really cold, like only a desert can get, with zero cloud cover. Yup like most we did not shower during our stay, and thank goodness for electric razor as well in the morning, and the ability to charge it during the day.
@@SeanBZA I was thinking along those lines as well. Might have been more chance of getting shot at coming in to those fields... depending on where the locals are and what kind of mood they're in.
Did anyone else notice "Subscribe" written on one of the (buttons?) just below the windshield in the cockpit scene from 8:54 on?
substandard training
panic in the cockpit....