I love Ed Helms just asking lots of questions with no reservations about if he might come across silly or ignorant. Truly feels like he's just a solid dude.
@@Horsemanray Which happens to be a very reasonable strategy in a world where you can expect more modern communication devices to unexpectedly explode.
Charles Darwin on Thomas Carlyle: "His talk was very racy and interesting, just like his writings, but he sometimes went on too long on the same subject. I remember a funny dinner at my brother's, where, amongst a few others, were Babbage and Lyell, both of whom liked to talk. Carlyle, however, silenced every one by haranguing during the whole dinner on the advantages of silence. After dinner Babbage, in his grimmest manner, thanked Carlyle for his very interesting lecture on silence. Carlyle sneered at almost every one.... his views about slavery were revolting. In his eyes might was right. His mind seemed to me a very narrow one; even if all branches of science, which he despised, are excluded. It is astonishing to me that Kingsley should have spoken of him as a man well fitted to advance science. He laughed to scorn the idea that a mathematician, such as Whewell, could judge, as I maintained he could, of Goethe's views on light. He thought it a most ridiculous thing that any one should care whether a glacier moved a little quicker or a little slower, or moved at all. As far as I could judge, I never met a man with a mind so ill adapted for scientific research." victorianweb.org/victorian/science/darwin/carlyle.html
I've read Patchwork, and the whole time I was reading it, I couldn't help but think, "This whole thing sounds like the setting of a Shadowrun campaign or a William Gibson novel."
@@kappadarwin9476 In some cases, they seem happy to envision themselves as the authoritarian ruler's court philosopher, spouting nonsensical ideas that they expect the dictator to like.
Robert said a thing I feel deep down in my soul. One of the most influential men in my life was this hard as nails radical anarchist, and he was the type who quite literally gives his last dollar to those out on the street. If you're out there dan, I hope you know you made a difference
Most of my sympathy for radical anarchist politics comes from hanging out in TTRPG forums when I was in high school and talking to a whole bunch of people who were radical anarchists because they played Shadowrun in the 90s with a bunch of people who were also radical anarchists. There's a weird family tree element to this sort of thing as well.
More like justifier in Chief, as in "allow me to use a plethora of logical fallacies to justify your indulging your own personality disorder (which I assume he posits do not exist, it's just the weak being envious of "the Great Sociopath Man")
There a reason why student of philosophers became manager of the goverment rather then philosophers because philosopher made be good at thinking of enthcis and the likes but goverment is a different ball game.
@@letsRegulateSociopaths you've got it backwards, He thinks his personality disorder gives him super human mental abilities, why he wants neuro-typical people out of leadership.
I feel like Yarvin read Gibson and Dick and the alienation and oppression the characters suffer under and went "that's cool and should be how life works"
Oh hey! The ancient roman steam engine hits on my special interests. The interesting thing about the steam engine was that it was generally known to exist for a very long time. Western scientists knew about steam power for a long time before the industrial revolution. The reason it didn't take off wasn't just short-sightedness or because nobody cared about it. The pre-industrial steam engine was just inefficient because the moving parts couldn't be properly sealed and have low friction. They didn't have precision machining techniques. What unlocked the steam engine's power was the rotating workpiece lathe, which was developed in order to solve this same low-friction seal problem in cannon barrels, which tended to explode when cannon balls jammed in the uneven barrels. If you ever find yourself in a low-technology world, the first thing you need in order to restore some level of modern technology is the rotating workpiece lathe, which can be made relatively easily from rudimentary supplies.
Indeed! It's really remarkable when you look at the history of technology that in any era people really push the materials they have to the brink of what's possible. And even once good pistons could be made, the first steam engine was only deployed to pump water at a coal mine, the ONE place in the world where fuel is so plentiful it's cheaper than labor.
@@HansLemurson Of course once the steam engine was turned into the steam train - which they could make wheels for with their new lathes - then they could put the coal on the train, and suddenly coal was plentiful everywhere, and then so were steam engines! Shame about the carbon cycle though.
This is what YT was made for, comments like yours that inform and educate us. Thank you. You restore sanity to an insane part of our living history. I wish all people were as intelligent as you are. And as decent, in that you know how to have intelligent discourse which enlightens and teaches, knowledge is power. Thank you for sharing your power.
I enjoy having a guest who's poking to make sure the assertions about the subject are accurate, and not something one should give the benefit of the doubt to. Hoping to see more of Ed.
You know, it's difficult knowing that people want to erase you have a bunch of money and power. I mean, I already knew it, but listening to these episodes just really drives it home.
@@nsbadgrapple60 I commented on the first video that he straight up looks like Lizzie McGuire's dad. Don't get me wrong: Robert Carradine is totally based, but he's not the most Chad looking guy on the block.
@@nsbadgrapple60I don't recall him being into eugenics, but rather managing people regardless what they are, but ensuring the most intelligent people are in power.
All of my enemies are so, so insufferable. Deeply so. So incredibly insufferable. Couldn't be me. No sir. Anyone who disagrees with me? So, so insufferable. I cannot suffer them.
It feels so surreal to see Ed Helms on here but it felt really nice to see him just asking genuine questions about the subject Hope to see him on again sometime in the future!
I went to Rhodesia at the age of ten. My Mother recalled that I was horrified by arpartheid. My family was by no means left-wing. You don't need an education to abhor inequality . You need humanity.
If you ever look into Thiel's "Six Californias" idea, it becomes really apparent it's all about eliminating regulation for Silicon Valley. The deal has very little idea of how the rest of the state works.
Having read over it myself, I immediately thought “this is going to send the Central Valley into a dark age”, “hey, how come Orange County gets to be in a separate state from LA?”, and “this feels like a ploy to get more Republican votes in the senate and electoral college”
@@Jerdifier I think that's true. There were multiple versions floating around, but the one I looked at was very detailed in terms of turning Silicon Valley into a Libertarian state, and the rest felt a lot like sops to various conservative groups to get them on board.
All the tech Oligarchs are spoiled little brats on the spectrum who had helicopter moms. They lack any ability to understand other humans and have too much money to be told how stupid and immature they are.
"This belief that any kind of quote from an old dead guy is a primary source that is something people should take more seriously when people are trying to make their mind up about how the world works" is basically conservative ideology in a nutshell. The Bible says this, Thomas Jefferson said that, Churchill....
Every time I hear one of these quote-a-holics I'm reminded of one of my favorite movie scenes from A Fish Called Wanda. Wanda: But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape? Otto: [superior smile] Apes don't read philosophy. Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it!
Yarvin is frustratingly “alt right” in his thought and speech. Completely detached from any historical materialism, fully based on ideological cherry picking. Watching Yarvin debate is like watching quantum goalposts, shifting under Gish gallups of partially substantive “facts” and ad hominem deflections. He’s a gifted grifter.
And speaking of his ideology, it’s not particularly fresh. A lot of project 2025 ideas are retreads of the lew powell memo, which retreads the business plot, which retreads the plantation south, and backwards to Plato- who advocated for an educated philosopher king, in a time when aristocrats like Plato were the only guys who could get an education. It’s pure class war, wrapped up in the myths of the great man.
The endings of BTB episodes are always disturbing, because one naturally expects them to be like: "And here's the solution to the problems presented by this terrible bastard..." And they don't do that. They're always just like: "Yep, terrible bastard. Told you about 'em." And that's good. That's a good structure
@@arthurswanson3285 It always feels a bit like you're just kind of being shoved out the door into the dark, dark night to fend for yourself in this nightmarish world where monsters roam freely (and often highly successfully). But yes, indeed
Yarvin's philosophy reads to me like the way a slightly precocious teenager sees the world on their first contact with these organizing ideas of society, sees how they all don't work as promised, and believes that they might be the first person to understand this and can clearly see the systems required to fix everything. Then most people go out in the world and actually have experience and realize how complicated people are, and all one's certainties are challenged by all the ways that people gum up the works no matter what. But he just never grew up past that point. I identify very strongly with that as a very nerdy child with poor social skills and a relatively early access to the nascent web, and I absolutely never would want to take any sort of advice on how to organize the world from myself at that point in my life, but hey, I guess a lot of very rich guys think that would be a good idea? Very, very cool.
I am mostly wandering around the backlog but I come in for some new episodes and was kind of drawn in by Ed Helms and I was not disappointed. He was a fantastic guest. I can't believe how much I enjoyed honestly well intentioned questions from someone who seems more moderate than me. It doesn't hurt that Ed is quick witted and intelligent
i'm not familiar with Ed Helms outside of his comedy. turns out he is a surprisingly chill and insightful podcast guest! Robert felt more rehearsed than usual, like he was really taking this episode seriously. i like goofy unhinged Robert but this Robert is good too. 👍
Yarvin made some fast money in the early stages of an epoch change stage. He did not make the biggest money. He is unlikely to make the bigger money as that continues for as long as it continues. So, he is a toady betting on a particular camp to sponsor him.
Much as i love guests like Margaret and other regulars, there is something to be said for having someone less…terminally online as a guest. Margaret and Cody are both brilliant and funny terminally online lefties, which makes them, ya know, a lot like Robert. Which is slightly more boring than having someone like ed who genuinely is like “what the fuck?”
This guy's got the emotional maturity of a teenager. It's amazing to how much time people who are already privileged, will spend convincing themselves that they should have it *all*.
'm so grateful that you put this together, being old enough and in the right place to have seen this movement on Usenet and the early web. I'm super grateful about this section at 38:40 , because it's really important to know that they're delusional and ignorant. They've just put new treads on old social darwinism and scientific racism tropes through wordy evopsych and misunderstood Bayesian statistics, and justified their bigotry and accidental privilege. More of these figures, like Sam Harris and the Sargonites need to have their mythologies "punctured" as you've done to Yarvin. Thank you!
I mean I’ll take them to senile farts who don’t know how to start up a PC regulating Tech Billionaires 🤷🏽♂️😭 ain’t like that’s been going well in any way shape or form
Not gonna say college is an unalloyed good, but these (often) dropout "autodidacts" who revile the humanities and then philosophize at astounding length about humanism really piss me off.
I was in high school when Happy Bunny was a thing and my favorite HB thing was "high school prepares you for the real world, which also sucks" and man was that fucking prescient
Massive Peter Wiggin energy from Yarvin, and Ender's Game was ~written~ (edit: published) in 1985... I hope the bastards pod is looking at Sci Fi's influence on these people. Orson Scott Card came to mind as soon as I heard the first part. The Dune fandom from Elon and Alex Jones, especially their positivity toward genetic memory, eugenics, and violence, seems particularly alarming and worth highlighting. Hyperstition, Borges, it's getting literary up in here.
Curtis is not different from medical grifters: I want the kudos of the intellectual without having to go through the work, and [reasons] this is actually better. As Robert said, it's "sure, I haven't rigorously tried to critique my own point or open it up for peer evaluation, but that doesn't make me a lazy narcissist, it makes me not part of the system"
It is really sad that Robert requested Ed Helms NOT play banjo for the episode, even though it is clear Ed specifically had chosen to record in an area conducive for to banjo pickin'. I don't know why you guys can't let Captain Sexy Banjo do his thing.
“One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.” - George Orwell, 1984
Orwell was an absolute buffoon. Spy for the UK Empire. Ratted out countless communists in the UK. All around bad dude. Racist and antisemitic. Rest in piss.
The reverence right-wingers hold for the constitution (even as they oppose the democratic principles it espouses) is surprisingly easy to explain. It is a sacred text for the secular. Just like Christian fundamentalists, they are happy to ignore the parts they don't like because it's utility comes from reverence rather than guidance.
This guy doesn't value the constitution though. He's another breed. Here's an excerpt from one of his Gray Mirror blog posts concerning the "Kamala Koup": "Americans: do you want to understand how government is supposed to work? After this latest charade, are you finally ready to admit that there are no secret magic beans in your beautiful old pieces of paper? That your history is just history? That your country is just another country? Can you hear this with your jimmies yet unrustled?"
@@mkvenner2It's not JUST aesthetics. Jonathon Haidt gets a lot of shit from the left for being a centrist/"defender" of the right, but his basic analysis of moral foundations seems pretty solid. Extreme tldr: there are 6 flavours of moral consideration, leftists consider two (care/harm and fairness/cheating), while right wingers generally consider 5 (the first two, plus sanctity/defilement, loyalty/betrayal and authority/subversion). For the left, sanctity is irrelevent, and the other two only matter in a consequetialist way (IE, being loyal is good because it reduces harm, lawful authority is good because it allows fair allocation and prevents cheaters, etc). For the right, these virtues are terminal values in and of themselves rather than instrumental values. The constitution can embody ANY of these five moral foundations, but the conservative mind values it as a source of authority, an instrument of loyalty, and a sacred text.
It feels like i woke up one day and 4chan manifested itsself as physical people. Very strange to see that all the fringe crazies i would read on imageboards as a teen werent just isolated to that place, they were my neighbors and parents and teachers. Gross
You mean after they immediately use the 25th amendment on trump, then Peter thiels personal fleshlight becomes president, and we descend into hell world?
Sounds like the kind of philosophy that a Saturday morning cartoon villain would be criticised for being too cartoonish for and weirdly appropriately the guy looks like every incel neckbeard stereotype.
13:04 one of my own pet theories for this happening with transgender women like Justine Tunney, is that she likely already knows the language and "humor" that people that move in these spaces use to keep outsiders out. Part of why people like Yarvin use slurs isn't just because they're racist, it's also effectively a hazing and bonding ritual that keeps them separated. Justine likely had gone through that in her hacker days so it was an easy community to get pulled back into. From your part one, can't help but wonder how much of the online edgy shock humor being used wasn't from the early white supremacist infiltration.
I worked with Pax Dickinson back at BI. This whole thing kept making me think of him, so glad he got a name drop. I enjoyed talking with him when I first started there, but he ended up firing me because I questioned his beliefs and talked back when he was spewing BS in the office. I guess I was young and naive in thinking that someone who was so "alpha male" could take criticism.
I'm a software engineer, and I looked into the Urbit stuff a couple of years ago. In my professional opinion, it's bullshit. The specification documents display a lot of Yarvin's famous logorrhœa, and the published parts of the code reek badly. (Yes, 'code smell' is a technical term used in software engineering.) It's better considered an expensive bad art project allowing Thiel to fund Yarvin than a software project.
I personally find it really fascinating, because it does an excellent job of appealing to exactly the kind of disgruntled programmer he's looking for and disguising itself as a technical document when it's really quite slick cult esotericism. yarvin acts like he's selling you a programming language, then slips into selling you the belief system that's supposed to make everything make sense, allow you to achieve the enlightenment you need to even understand the value of what he's giving you. you're smart, aren't you? don't you want to understand?
The increase in production quality, especially the new camera angle Robert is using, looks fantastic! I love that it allows him to emote and connect with the audience more. I think it would be fantastic if he were to start doing some political coverage streaming sometime-he definitely has the chops for it, and getting a voice into the space with the experience and background of Robert's would be refreshing. (no offense to voosh, but evans is better at coalition building also evans has better takes on warhammer 40k 💀💀) (although a crossover episode would be great, it would be peak comedy and vonch does better as a guest on stuff than on his own streams if anyone out there actually legit thinks vish is _actually_ bad, go look up the interview he and emma vigeland did with ro khanna, it's legit good)
It’s the Tucker Carlson contrarian school of thought. And exactly what jd Vance was doing with the Haitian cats. “Just asking questions” “alternative facts”
Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius is a fantastic story! Frankly it sucks being a left-wing Borges fan sometimes, the dude's politics were not too great so it's not hard to see why when right-wing assholes take a shine to him. Still, undeniably one of the greatest writers of the 20th century.
Also, not as much of a coincidence as it might seem, seeing as Borges has been marketed as being sci-fi literature outside of his country. Greetings from another lefty Borges fan.
Bringing Ed Helms to talk about this stuff and seeing his reactions and asking questions about his ties to the more familiar flavor of patriotic fascism and authoritarianism that most normal leftists and libs know is awesome. More people need to be aware that theres deeply troubling people influencing the more public faces of fascism
Some of these Tech Bros just seem very uncomfortable with the messiness of the human condition & the randomness of life. They want to program society into what they consider a more efficient model with them in charge because being good at math & coding apparently makes you omnicient.And they are so in bed with the Alt Right & Republican Party to bring about their Liberarian Utopia which sounds a lot like a cyner punk mash up of Handmaid's Tale,1984 & Brave New World to me. We'll all be breeders & workers swearing allegience to the Corporate State. Yay? 😮
I was thinking exactly about Hero of Alexandria’s steam turbine, and here it is! Incredibly gratifying to be in complete sync with an interlocutor. He sounds a lot like a guy who, in best Neronian fashion, when finally confronted by the sharp end of the knives of his own Praetorians would wistfully lament about how great of a visionary a world is about to lose…
I HAD to zoom in on his hair to see wtf was actually going on there. There’s the obviously frizzy damaged parts, but the first 10cm from the scalp is *EXTREMELY* fkn oily. He needs to WASH his hair first-then worry about conditioning it lol.
@@johnmitchell923 ok, good one, take my upvote. I know this isn't reddit. If it was reddit, my comments wouldn't disappear and I could see my whole history and everyone else.
as an autistic man who constantly gets compared to sheldon and as a result would not be opposed to firebombing a warehouse containing Big Bang Theory on every form of media ever, i think that's an insult to Sheldon J Cooper
This has been an informative and much needed discussion, thank you. One thing I stumbled over, though, is your use of the term "lovecraftian" to describe how Yarvin influences people. Lovecraftian in this context sounds entirely out of place to my mind. I'd be interested to hear what you mean by this?
"the freedom to leave" LOL, AS IF the tyrant with otherwise total power would somehow refrain from taking this last power away from his subjects! How insanely naive!!
As a norwegian, i have to say, that calling them young norwegian leftists os misleading in the American context, they are not that far left, the workers party in norway is left of center, but we have two main center parties, the workers party in the left and høyre literally translated as "right" on the right, both relatively moderate parties, with differences for sure, but they are in noy way extreme, it sounds too much like a communist camp or something, its a liberal political party mostly, not far left. That dude was absolutely nuts, no question about it, what he thinks is far left is irrelevant. Our politics isn't perfect either but its sure functional in comparison with a lot of other places. I have no doubt either of the major parties would do the right thing if it was important, doesn't mean id vote right, but still i respect them in a way i couldnt with the Republican party in the us.
Would you be so kind and state the source about ths guy called Francis .. Sang in Minute 6:15? I'd be very glad, because I can't find the essay you are referring to.
This (Yarvin's Work) feels like Ayn Rand repackaged, especially with this infatuation with an aristocratic capitalist class. Yarvin belongs in Gault's Gulch. I think Rand obviously played some role in his intellectual development. Also, I remember reading Carlyle and reflecting back on it, it was obtuse --first, because its prose was (perhaps) excessively vain and second, because I felt the text could counter anyone arguing against it as having not fully understanding it (because they were stupid). In my mind Rand is sort of like this too, if you put the time (and patience) in trying to understand her ideas you almost become seduced by the sense of investment and achievement. As a young man, I remember being drawn to this idea of a Hero--The genius, the leader. As an older man, I see heroes as an infantile fantasy if not a dangerous delusion.
One of Carlyle's works Sartor Resortus (If my memory is correct) deals with a man trying to re patch up a brilliant torn manuscript. A puzzle in a puzzle. This would be my first example of Carlyle being obtuse.
50'01 "...that will allow these other kind of interests, these corporate interests to kind of take and centralize more power themselves ...as the state gets whittle down and we can devolve power into what is effectively corporate warlords" OMG....We're heading for William Gibson's Neuromancer dystopia
I love Ed Helms just asking lots of questions with no reservations about if he might come across silly or ignorant. Truly feels like he's just a solid dude.
He seems like the kind of guy who still has dial up internet because he only uses it to check his email.
I thought he asked great questions. Very good guest.
Well, a solid dude as long as you're not a jerk, anyway.
@@Horsemanray Which happens to be a very reasonable strategy in a world where you can expect more modern communication devices to unexpectedly explode.
@@rileyfaelan because Israel had them designed to explode? I don't think Apple products have that particular issue
Charles Darwin on Thomas Carlyle:
"His talk was very racy and interesting, just like his writings, but he sometimes went on too long on the same subject. I remember a funny dinner at my brother's, where, amongst a few others, were Babbage and Lyell, both of whom liked to talk. Carlyle, however, silenced every one by haranguing during the whole dinner on the advantages of silence. After dinner Babbage, in his grimmest manner, thanked Carlyle for his very interesting lecture on silence.
Carlyle sneered at almost every one....
his views about slavery were revolting. In his eyes might was right. His mind seemed to me a very narrow one; even if all branches of science, which he despised, are excluded. It is astonishing to me that Kingsley should have spoken of him as a man well fitted to advance science. He laughed to scorn the idea that a mathematician, such as Whewell, could judge, as I maintained he could, of Goethe's views on light. He thought it a most ridiculous thing that any one should care whether a glacier moved a little quicker or a little slower, or moved at all. As far as I could judge, I never met a man with a mind so ill adapted for scientific research."
victorianweb.org/victorian/science/darwin/carlyle.html
Great resource, thanks a lot!
"I never met a man with a mind so ill adapted for scientific research"
- Charles Darwin, eyes wide and mouth gaping
Normally I'd say fascism is the worst ideology, but corporate feudalism is giving that title a run for its money.
Fascism is a movement required to dismantle pluralistic society. The fascism is guaranteed.
would they really even be different for us?
Honestly they're hardly different
Techno-neofeudalism but instead of being an iffy explanation of our current society to critique but as aspiration.
Nasty work.
With that patchwork idea he had it'd be better, but it has its flaws. Localism is what I'm interpreting from it but idk.
Someone who looked at Cyberpunk dystopian fictions and said "oh goodness, yes please. Give me that, the Star Trek future scares the fuck out of me".
You're thinking of Nick Land
Its like they think they will become the ruler instead of the ruled.
I've read Patchwork, and the whole time I was reading it, I couldn't help but think, "This whole thing sounds like the setting of a Shadowrun campaign or a William Gibson novel."
@@franslair2199 They have very similar views.
@@kappadarwin9476 In some cases, they seem happy to envision themselves as the authoritarian ruler's court philosopher, spouting nonsensical ideas that they expect the dictator to like.
Robert said a thing I feel deep down in my soul. One of the most influential men in my life was this hard as nails radical anarchist, and he was the type who quite literally gives his last dollar to those out on the street. If you're out there dan, I hope you know you made a difference
Reminds me of Danarchy in Gainesville. Same feeling. That guy made a huge difference in my life by existing.
Am I the only person who didn't arrive at their personal beliefs because they met a cool person once?
@@iivin4233 it was inspiring to see good being done at a level the human mind can easily comprehend and see it's not all hopeless.
Most of my sympathy for radical anarchist politics comes from hanging out in TTRPG forums when I was in high school and talking to a whole bunch of people who were radical anarchists because they played Shadowrun in the 90s with a bunch of people who were also radical anarchists. There's a weird family tree element to this sort of thing as well.
@@LethargicScientist funny enough I met this guy while he was behind the counter of a game store
"Hey, aren't Monarchies awesome. We should do that again" is a pretty loose definition of 'Philosopher'
More like justifier in Chief, as in "allow me to use a plethora of logical fallacies to justify your indulging your own personality disorder (which I assume he posits do not exist, it's just the weak being envious of "the Great Sociopath Man")
Well, the existence of “great philosophers” does imply the existence of their inverse.
There a reason why student of philosophers became manager of the goverment rather then philosophers because philosopher made be good at thinking of enthcis and the likes but goverment is a different ball game.
thats basically every philosopher whos work became modern conservatism.
from edmund burke onward its royalist sentiment all the way.
@@letsRegulateSociopaths you've got it backwards, He thinks his personality disorder gives him super human mental abilities, why he wants neuro-typical people out of leadership.
I feel like Yarvin read Gibson and Dick and the alienation and oppression the characters suffer under and went "that's cool and should be how life works"
I feel like the Texanism “All hat, no cattle” could apply to their reading comprehension
What dies not being under oppression look like to you? Society doesn't run without obligation. The problem is people conflating obligation with abuse.
Oh hey! The ancient roman steam engine hits on my special interests. The interesting thing about the steam engine was that it was generally known to exist for a very long time. Western scientists knew about steam power for a long time before the industrial revolution. The reason it didn't take off wasn't just short-sightedness or because nobody cared about it.
The pre-industrial steam engine was just inefficient because the moving parts couldn't be properly sealed and have low friction. They didn't have precision machining techniques.
What unlocked the steam engine's power was the rotating workpiece lathe, which was developed in order to solve this same low-friction seal problem in cannon barrels, which tended to explode when cannon balls jammed in the uneven barrels.
If you ever find yourself in a low-technology world, the first thing you need in order to restore some level of modern technology is the rotating workpiece lathe, which can be made relatively easily from rudimentary supplies.
Indeed! It's really remarkable when you look at the history of technology that in any era people really push the materials they have to the brink of what's possible.
And even once good pistons could be made, the first steam engine was only deployed to pump water at a coal mine, the ONE place in the world where fuel is so plentiful it's cheaper than labor.
Nice. Thanks for the short write up.
@@HansLemurson Of course once the steam engine was turned into the steam train - which they could make wheels for with their new lathes - then they could put the coal on the train, and suddenly coal was plentiful everywhere, and then so were steam engines!
Shame about the carbon cycle though.
@@excrubulent Yeah! It's such a convenient source of energy otherwise...
This is what YT was made for, comments like yours that inform and educate us. Thank you. You restore sanity to an insane part of our living history. I wish all people were as intelligent as you are. And as decent, in that you know how to have intelligent discourse which enlightens and teaches, knowledge is power. Thank you for sharing your power.
I enjoy having a guest who's poking to make sure the assertions about the subject are accurate, and not something one should give the benefit of the doubt to. Hoping to see more of Ed.
Fallout did an excellent job of explaining why CEO kings are a terrible idea
Point of the game
And how doctors treat chickens.
How so?
Right-wing shitheads: "whoa, cool robot!"
the first two replies to this, lol
Bae, wake up
New incredulous Sophie & friends just dropped
That’s what I’m calling it from now on
Lol❤ perfect
Didn't know what Yarvin looked like. Saw the thumbnail and went, 'YUP, of course THATS him.' His picture seems to exude self importance.
lol I had the same reaction
And impotence.
he looks like he inexplicably smells like soup
What kind of soup you thinking?@@SgtKaneGunlock
Didn’t he run a book store on portlandia?
You know, it's difficult knowing that people want to erase you have a bunch of money and power. I mean, I already knew it, but listening to these episodes just really drives it home.
I see these tech bros just giddy at the thought that they could run experiments on the rest of us without legal consequences.
What's helming, my Eds?
The thing about Yarvin is that he just looks insufferable. He is too, just deeply insufferable.
for a guy who likes eugenics his physiogomy is awfully untermenche-coded
@@nsbadgrapple60 I commented on the first video that he straight up looks like Lizzie McGuire's dad. Don't get me wrong: Robert Carradine is totally based, but he's not the most Chad looking guy on the block.
@@nsbadgrapple60I don't recall him being into eugenics, but rather managing people regardless what they are, but ensuring the most intelligent people are in power.
he truly does. the thumbnail on this video.. it's just the most punchable douchebag i've seen in quite a while.
All of my enemies are so, so insufferable. Deeply so. So incredibly insufferable. Couldn't be me. No sir. Anyone who disagrees with me? So, so insufferable. I cannot suffer them.
It feels so surreal to see Ed Helms on here but it felt really nice to see him just asking genuine questions about the subject
Hope to see him on again sometime in the future!
I went to Rhodesia at the age of ten. My Mother recalled that I was horrified by arpartheid. My family was by no means left-wing. You don't need an education to abhor inequality . You need humanity.
And folks need self knowledge to understand why all dictators suck… too bad that’s a rare thing.
Rhodesia explicitly rejected apartheid. You are historically illiterate.
@@plv.d.4079but you have it, PLVD! You are Special!
Imagine how you'd be crying if you went there now💀☠️
@@ObsidianFaneyou truly have no idea the conditions of apartheid if you believe it’s worse today
If you ever look into Thiel's "Six Californias" idea, it becomes really apparent it's all about eliminating regulation for Silicon Valley. The deal has very little idea of how the rest of the state works.
Having read over it myself, I immediately thought “this is going to send the Central Valley into a dark age”, “hey, how come Orange County gets to be in a separate state from LA?”, and “this feels like a ploy to get more Republican votes in the senate and electoral college”
@@Jerdifier I think that's true. There were multiple versions floating around, but the one I looked at was very detailed in terms of turning Silicon Valley into a Libertarian state, and the rest felt a lot like sops to various conservative groups to get them on board.
All the tech Oligarchs are spoiled little brats on the spectrum who had helicopter moms. They lack any ability to understand other humans and have too much money to be told how stupid and immature they are.
"This belief that any kind of quote from an old dead guy is a primary source that is something people should take more seriously when people are trying to make their mind up about how the world works" is basically conservative ideology in a nutshell. The Bible says this, Thomas Jefferson said that, Churchill....
i have complained about quotes becoming thought terminating cliche for 10 years now and I will continue to whine. I hate it!
Every time I hear one of these quote-a-holics I'm reminded of one of my favorite movie scenes from A Fish Called Wanda.
Wanda: But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?
Otto: [superior smile] Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it!
Yarvin is frustratingly “alt right” in his thought and speech. Completely detached from any historical materialism, fully based on ideological cherry picking. Watching Yarvin debate is like watching quantum goalposts, shifting under Gish gallups of partially substantive “facts” and ad hominem deflections. He’s a gifted grifter.
And speaking of his ideology, it’s not particularly fresh. A lot of project 2025 ideas are retreads of the lew powell memo, which retreads the business plot, which retreads the plantation south, and backwards to Plato- who advocated for an educated philosopher king, in a time when aristocrats like Plato were the only guys who could get an education. It’s pure class war, wrapped up in the myths of the great man.
sounds like Jorden Peterson
More concisely, he is a bullshit artist.
"Completely detached from any historical materialism".
Lol. The horror.
@@newglof9558bro heard the code words to shut off his brain
Ed is up there with one of the best guests you ever had on the show.
Couldn't agree more. Very impressed by Ed here.
The endings of BTB episodes are always disturbing, because one naturally expects them to be like: "And here's the solution to the problems presented by this terrible bastard..." And they don't do that. They're always just like: "Yep, terrible bastard. Told you about 'em." And that's good. That's a good structure
Yup. Puts the viewer in the driver seat to do what needs to be done with the knowledge.
@@arthurswanson3285 It always feels a bit like you're just kind of being shoved out the door into the dark, dark night to fend for yourself in this nightmarish world where monsters roam freely (and often highly successfully). But yes, indeed
Yarvin's philosophy reads to me like the way a slightly precocious teenager sees the world on their first contact with these organizing ideas of society, sees how they all don't work as promised, and believes that they might be the first person to understand this and can clearly see the systems required to fix everything. Then most people go out in the world and actually have experience and realize how complicated people are, and all one's certainties are challenged by all the ways that people gum up the works no matter what. But he just never grew up past that point.
I identify very strongly with that as a very nerdy child with poor social skills and a relatively early access to the nascent web, and I absolutely never would want to take any sort of advice on how to organize the world from myself at that point in my life, but hey, I guess a lot of very rich guys think that would be a good idea? Very, very cool.
That is not a man named Curtis Yarvin. That is a picture of John Oliver on the set of Community.
John Oliver and Adam Driver attempted a fusion, but they missed the appropriate angle for the stance by 5 degrees.
@@MrGksarathy then you realize they did the fusion dance as they put on potara earrings....
He looks like John Oliver, but instead of looking like a bird, it a Spaniel
@@starmaker75 John Oliver does look kinda birdy
I am mostly wandering around the backlog but I come in for some new episodes and was kind of drawn in by Ed Helms and I was not disappointed. He was a fantastic guest. I can't believe how much I enjoyed honestly well intentioned questions from someone who seems more moderate than me. It doesn't hurt that Ed is quick witted and intelligent
i'm not familiar with Ed Helms outside of his comedy. turns out he is a surprisingly chill and insightful podcast guest! Robert felt more rehearsed than usual, like he was really taking this episode seriously. i like goofy unhinged Robert but this Robert is good too. 👍
the most professional Robert has been with openings, closings and plugs. we pullin Ed Helms prestige now
Yay, I finished part one before I left for work this morning. Now I'm home and part two is up. Let's gooooo.
Yarvin made some fast money in the early stages of an epoch change stage. He did not make the biggest money. He is unlikely to make the bigger money as that continues for as long as it continues. So, he is a toady betting on a particular camp to sponsor him.
Kinda of like Dugin
Much as i love guests like Margaret and other regulars, there is something to be said for having someone less…terminally online as a guest. Margaret and Cody are both brilliant and funny terminally online lefties, which makes them, ya know, a lot like Robert. Which is slightly more boring than having someone like ed who genuinely is like “what the fuck?”
If he had been born into a pre-internet world, Yarvin would be Ignatius Riley from 'A Confederacy Of Dunces'.
I wrote a paper about Carlyle in college, using Ignatius/C of D as a framing device. Didn't know about Carlyle's odious opinions, wish I did.....
that's literally kantbot
Fascinating how people obsess over unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, when actual conspiracies are being spun up under our noses 😭☠️
These episodes have had me smiling way to much for the subject matter. Real delight!
It's weird having the background noise of my young adulthood on the internet still be relevant, but this is as always well done.
This guy's got the emotional maturity of a teenager. It's amazing to how much time people who are already privileged, will spend convincing themselves that they should have it *all*.
'm so grateful that you put this together, being old enough and in the right place to have seen this movement on Usenet and the early web. I'm super grateful about this section at 38:40 , because it's really important to know that they're delusional and ignorant. They've just put new treads on old social darwinism and scientific racism tropes through wordy evopsych and misunderstood Bayesian statistics, and justified their bigotry and accidental privilege. More of these figures, like Sam Harris and the Sargonites need to have their mythologies "punctured" as you've done to Yarvin. Thank you!
I'm not ready for this chapter in humanity where we have to deal with terminally online people controlling things. Forums did not make them better.
Dorks like Yarvin and Musk spend their entire lives online and now we all have to suffer for it.
I mean I’ll take them to senile farts who don’t know how to start up a PC regulating Tech Billionaires 🤷🏽♂️😭 ain’t like that’s been going well in any way shape or form
Not gonna say college is an unalloyed good, but these (often) dropout "autodidacts" who revile the humanities and then philosophize at astounding length about humanism really piss me off.
@@sharkbelly1169yeah, there is something to be said for a well-rounded liberal arts (in the classical sense) education with the humanities.
And yet here you are pontificating about it ONLINE. The left worships hypocrisy apparently 🤕
I was in high school when Happy Bunny was a thing and my favorite HB thing was "high school prepares you for the real world, which also sucks" and man was that fucking prescient
that's so fucking real
12:45 -- Isn't this the part of Ender's Game where Ender's sociopathic brother takes over the world via blogging?
Massive Peter Wiggin energy from Yarvin, and Ender's Game was ~written~ (edit: published) in 1985... I hope the bastards pod is looking at Sci Fi's influence on these people. Orson Scott Card came to mind as soon as I heard the first part. The Dune fandom from Elon and Alex Jones, especially their positivity toward genetic memory, eugenics, and violence, seems particularly alarming and worth highlighting.
Hyperstition, Borges, it's getting literary up in here.
Curtis is not different from medical grifters: I want the kudos of the intellectual without having to go through the work, and [reasons] this is actually better. As Robert said, it's "sure, I haven't rigorously tried to critique my own point or open it up for peer evaluation, but that doesn't make me a lazy narcissist, it makes me not part of the system"
or charlatan 'archeologists' like Graham Hancock who complains about 'the establishment' ignoring his self important nonsense.
"How do you know you are old?"
"When your 20's is set in a historical context 😅"
It is really sad that Robert requested Ed Helms NOT play banjo for the episode, even though it is clear Ed specifically had chosen to record in an area conducive for to banjo pickin'. I don't know why you guys can't let Captain Sexy Banjo do his thing.
So glad I just finished part 1 and refreshed the feed to see part 2!
13:08 Kind of like how in The Tolken Legendarium, how Saron managed to go from Ar Phrazon's prisoner to his highest counselor in only 3 YEARS.
The thumbnail has definite Grima energy…
“One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.”
- George Orwell, 1984
Orwell was an absolute buffoon. Spy for the UK Empire. Ratted out countless communists in the UK. All around bad dude. Racist and antisemitic. Rest in piss.
Watching a liberal wake up to the actual threat of the modern Right was pretty great. You're doing really good work BtB!
The reverence right-wingers hold for the constitution (even as they oppose the democratic principles it espouses) is surprisingly easy to explain.
It is a sacred text for the secular. Just like Christian fundamentalists, they are happy to ignore the parts they don't like because it's utility comes from reverence rather than guidance.
It’s all about the aesthetics to them
My thoughts, exactly. And it’s a pretty good explanation of the double think involved.
This guy doesn't value the constitution though. He's another breed. Here's an excerpt from one of his Gray Mirror blog posts concerning the "Kamala Koup":
"Americans: do you want to understand how government is supposed to work? After this latest charade, are you finally ready to admit that there are no secret magic beans in your beautiful old pieces of paper? That your history is just history? That your country is just another country? Can you hear this with your jimmies yet unrustled?"
It also helps that a lot of them are Mormons, who view the Constitution as a divinely inspired document.
@@mkvenner2It's not JUST aesthetics. Jonathon Haidt gets a lot of shit from the left for being a centrist/"defender" of the right, but his basic analysis of moral foundations seems pretty solid. Extreme tldr: there are 6 flavours of moral consideration, leftists consider two (care/harm and fairness/cheating), while right wingers generally consider 5 (the first two, plus sanctity/defilement, loyalty/betrayal and authority/subversion).
For the left, sanctity is irrelevent, and the other two only matter in a consequetialist way (IE, being loyal is good because it reduces harm, lawful authority is good because it allows fair allocation and prevents cheaters, etc). For the right, these virtues are terminal values in and of themselves rather than instrumental values.
The constitution can embody ANY of these five moral foundations, but the conservative mind values it as a source of authority, an instrument of loyalty, and a sacred text.
Amazing episode, and I loved Ed Helms in it!
It feels like i woke up one day and 4chan manifested itsself as physical people. Very strange to see that all the fringe crazies i would read on imageboards as a teen werent just isolated to that place, they were my neighbors and parents and teachers. Gross
UGH, the hardest part of the RUclips edition is seeing Curtis Yarvin's face...
The best part is seeing all the other faces talking about Jerks
These people confuse the initial trump presidency with what comes after when Vance and Co take over
You mean after they immediately use the 25th amendment on trump, then Peter thiels personal fleshlight becomes president, and we descend into hell world?
Sounds like the kind of philosophy that a Saturday morning cartoon villain would be criticised for being too cartoonish for and weirdly appropriately the guy looks like every incel neckbeard stereotype.
Just found this podcast, and now I'll watch every episode.
This will go down as one of the most dark horse informative exposés of out time.
13:04 one of my own pet theories for this happening with transgender women like Justine Tunney, is that she likely already knows the language and "humor" that people that move in these spaces use to keep outsiders out. Part of why people like Yarvin use slurs isn't just because they're racist, it's also effectively a hazing and bonding ritual that keeps them separated. Justine likely had gone through that in her hacker days so it was an easy community to get pulled back into. From your part one, can't help but wonder how much of the online edgy shock humor being used wasn't from the early white supremacist infiltration.
The Cathedral concept from episode one is probably related to Eric Raymond article The Cathedral and the Bazaar
I worked with Pax Dickinson back at BI. This whole thing kept making me think of him, so glad he got a name drop. I enjoyed talking with him when I first started there, but he ended up firing me because I questioned his beliefs and talked back when he was spewing BS in the office. I guess I was young and naive in thinking that someone who was so "alpha male" could take criticism.
if you want to hear this Chodus Yarvin speak his debate with Ben Burgis is floating around RUclips.
I'm a software engineer, and I looked into the Urbit stuff a couple of years ago.
In my professional opinion, it's bullshit. The specification documents display a lot of Yarvin's famous logorrhœa, and the published parts of the code reek badly. (Yes, 'code smell' is a technical term used in software engineering.) It's better considered an expensive bad art project allowing Thiel to fund Yarvin than a software project.
I personally find it really fascinating, because it does an excellent job of appealing to exactly the kind of disgruntled programmer he's looking for and disguising itself as a technical document when it's really quite slick cult esotericism. yarvin acts like he's selling you a programming language, then slips into selling you the belief system that's supposed to make everything make sense, allow you to achieve the enlightenment you need to even understand the value of what he's giving you. you're smart, aren't you? don't you want to understand?
Man, Justine Tunney. There’s a name I’ve not thought about in … *stares into the middle distance, puffs cigarette*
The end result of Yarvin's theories are portrayed probably unintentionally as the Corporate Rim, main villains of The Murderbot Diaries.
The increase in production quality, especially the new camera angle Robert is using, looks fantastic!
I love that it allows him to emote and connect with the audience more.
I think it would be fantastic if he were to start doing some political coverage streaming sometime-he definitely has the chops for it, and getting a voice into the space with the experience and background of Robert's would be refreshing.
(no offense to voosh, but evans is better at coalition building
also evans has better takes on warhammer 40k 💀💀)
(although a crossover episode would be great, it would be peak comedy and vonch does better as a guest on stuff than on his own streams
if anyone out there actually legit thinks vish is _actually_ bad, go look up the interview he and emma vigeland did with ro khanna, it's legit good)
why would you want this wonderful podcast’s presence ruined by *him*
Also, just because they might have *a* theory of relativity doesn't mean they had *Einstein's* theory of Relativity
It’s the Tucker Carlson contrarian school of thought. And exactly what jd Vance was doing with the Haitian cats. “Just asking questions” “alternative facts”
Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius is a fantastic story! Frankly it sucks being a left-wing Borges fan sometimes, the dude's politics were not too great so it's not hard to see why when right-wing assholes take a shine to him. Still, undeniably one of the greatest writers of the 20th century.
Also, not as much of a coincidence as it might seem, seeing as Borges has been marketed as being sci-fi literature outside of his country. Greetings from another lefty Borges fan.
Curtis looks like a middle aged Michael Bolton from Office Space.
So excited for this part 2!
Bringing Ed Helms to talk about this stuff and seeing his reactions and asking questions about his ties to the more familiar flavor of patriotic fascism and authoritarianism that most normal leftists and libs know is awesome. More people need to be aware that theres deeply troubling people influencing the more public faces of fascism
That Yarvin guy looks like Emo Phillips had a kid with a Bob's Burgers chick
I watched the entire first episode and it’s only until now that it clicked that it’s ANDY Ed Holme Jesus
You’re a man of taste Ed!
Was Peter Thiel the financial backer of yarvin? That would make s lot of sense
Robert keeps saying ‘Ed’
Pretty sure it’s ‘Egg’ Helms
Thank you. They should get it right.
for those who want more detailed debunkings and deconstructions of this guy, neoreaction: a basilisk is an essential read
I was hoping the broadcast interruption would include dog pics
Some of these Tech Bros just seem very uncomfortable with the messiness of the human condition & the randomness of life. They want to program society into what they consider a more efficient model with them in charge because being good at math & coding apparently makes you omnicient.And they are so in bed with the Alt Right & Republican Party to bring about their Liberarian Utopia which sounds a lot like a cyner punk mash up of Handmaid's Tale,1984 & Brave New World to me. We'll all be breeders & workers swearing allegience to the Corporate State. Yay? 😮
That's the engineer mindset for you.
Ed Helms!!! Awesome job getting him on the show! ❤❤❤
I was thinking exactly about Hero of Alexandria’s steam turbine, and here it is! Incredibly gratifying to be in complete sync with an interlocutor.
He sounds a lot like a guy who, in best Neronian fashion, when finally confronted by the sharp end of the knives of his own Praetorians would wistfully lament about how great of a visionary a world is about to lose…
need a full Nick Land / CCRU episode
Seconded
The shadow on Ed Helms’ chin makes him look like the lead singer of Godsmack
If that man is a philosopher, then I am a tasseled wobblegong, and tasseled wobblegongs can't type.
Why are you all so cringe
Dude would really benefit from a deep conditioner treatment. VO5 or something.
I HAD to zoom in on his hair to see wtf was actually going on there. There’s the obviously frizzy damaged parts, but the first 10cm from the scalp is *EXTREMELY* fkn oily.
He needs to WASH his hair first-then worry about conditioning it lol.
I feel like Anderson needs a pop-up maybe replace the Nixon face when they wants a snack.
You cant just copy the plot to Warhammer 40K and call it your philosophy.
Ha!
You can't just mention Warhammer 40k and call it a comment
@@johnmitchell923 it is a pretty good comment, as comments go.
@@polydex108 it definitely is one of the comments of all time
@@johnmitchell923 ok, good one, take my upvote. I know this isn't reddit. If it was reddit, my comments wouldn't disappear and I could see my whole history and everyone else.
"was it in iambic pentameter?" was a joke that had me laughing out loud there.
Yarvin is what would happen if Sheldon Cooper were born with more money than God.
as an autistic man who constantly gets compared to sheldon and as a result would not be opposed to firebombing a warehouse containing Big Bang Theory on every form of media ever, i think that's an insult to Sheldon J Cooper
This has been an informative and much needed discussion, thank you. One thing I stumbled over, though, is your use of the term "lovecraftian" to describe how Yarvin influences people. Lovecraftian in this context sounds entirely out of place to my mind. I'd be interested to hear what you mean by this?
They’re so close. Crazy times.
of COURSE the downfall of america is partly due to a old school usenet bro
"the freedom to leave" LOL, AS IF the tyrant with otherwise total power would somehow refrain from taking this last power away from his subjects!
How insanely naive!!
The thumbnail looks like someone’s homely aunt watching Fox News
As a norwegian, i have to say, that calling them young norwegian leftists os misleading in the American context, they are not that far left, the workers party in norway is left of center, but we have two main center parties, the workers party in the left and høyre literally translated as "right" on the right, both relatively moderate parties, with differences for sure, but they are in noy way extreme, it sounds too much like a communist camp or something, its a liberal political party mostly, not far left. That dude was absolutely nuts, no question about it, what he thinks is far left is irrelevant. Our politics isn't perfect either but its sure functional in comparison with a lot of other places. I have no doubt either of the major parties would do the right thing if it was important, doesn't mean id vote right, but still i respect them in a way i couldnt with the Republican party in the us.
The media should really be asking JD about it
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
🤔
Love the episode and roodootdoodado
PLEASE do a Nick Land episode one day, his is such a batshit story and really deserves the BTB treatment
Easily one of my favorite episodes ever
Came for the bastards, stayed for the scansion jokes
Would you be so kind and state the source about ths guy called Francis .. Sang in Minute 6:15?
I'd be very glad, because I can't find the essay you are referring to.
This (Yarvin's Work) feels like Ayn Rand repackaged, especially with this infatuation with an aristocratic capitalist class. Yarvin belongs in Gault's Gulch. I think Rand obviously played some role in his intellectual development. Also, I remember reading Carlyle and reflecting back on it, it was obtuse --first, because its prose was (perhaps) excessively vain and second, because I felt the text could counter anyone arguing against it as having not fully understanding it (because they were stupid). In my mind Rand is sort of like this too, if you put the time (and patience) in trying to understand her ideas you almost become seduced by the sense of investment and achievement. As a young man, I remember being drawn to this idea of a Hero--The genius, the leader. As an older man, I see heroes as an infantile fantasy if not a dangerous delusion.
One of Carlyle's works Sartor Resortus (If my memory is correct) deals with a man trying to re patch up a brilliant torn manuscript. A puzzle in a puzzle. This would be my first example of Carlyle being obtuse.
50'01 "...that will allow these other kind of interests, these corporate interests to kind of take and centralize more power themselves ...as the state gets whittle down and we can devolve power into what is effectively corporate warlords" OMG....We're heading for William Gibson's Neuromancer dystopia
oh my god, THAT'S what he looks like?!