The Bible never says the gifts ceased. Not anywhere. I don’t really care what anyone else said - show it to me in the Bible or don’t tell me it’s true.
I'm afraid you got me lost here, on a couple of points. First of all, it is hard for me to see what the difference is between "individual worship" and "corporate worship." Worship is worship. It involves consciously entering into the presence of God and praising Him, whether we do this individually or collectively. And ideally, we should feel the presence of God in it. I also think that you might be misinterpreting I Corinthians 14, reading a modern church service back into the text. It must be remembered that there were no church buildings in the First Century. Rather, the entire Christian community in a given city was considered a "church," but within the context of these large metropolitan churches there were smaller groups that met on a weekly basis in private homes. Periodically the larger group meet gather in a public place, and that seems to be the picture in chapter 14. Paul says "when you (the church at Corinth) come together . . ." (v 26). Unbelievers are present (v. 23). As a result there is a strong emphasis on decency and order, and public appearance. Among other things, women are not permitted to speak ((vv. 34,35). But in the weekly home gatherings things would be done a bit informally, and there would be an agape meal in which the Lord's Table would be observed. Presumably in those contexts women would be permitted to speak, as long as they had their heads covered (I Cor. 11).
The difference is that one is singular and one is communal. How you worship individually is going to be different to how you do so as a group. A church service in the 21st century follows quite a similar structure to those of the early days - Justin Martyr details an example in his writings. There were some church buildings, though until AD 70 Chrsitians continued to mainly worship in the temple in Jerusalem.
I hear a lot of people today define worship as feeling the presence of God. The problem is, what does the presence of God feel like? How do I know it as distinct from my other feelings? Isn't God always present whether I feel Him or not? Didn't He promise to never leave us or forsake us? Feelings are subjective and not a reliable measure of the work of God either in an individual believer or in a group of them. When Jesus talks to the woman at the well in John 4, He says the Father seeks true worshipers who worship Him in spirit and in truth. A study of the type of corporate worship she experienced as a Samaritan will show a striking similarity to today's emphasis in many churches on emotions as the measure of worship. For the Jews, they prided themselves on their grasp of Scripture. Yet Jesus brings both together in one statement with the emphasis on the truth of Scripture as the leader. You can see this play out in the text in her own excitement. She was in the presence of God, but initially felt suspicion, pride, guilt, and curiosity. It's not until she hears the truth from the Word of God in flesh and realizes Who she is talking to that her feelings change to wonder and excitement. Note that she left her water pot. It wasn't important anymore in the face of what she'd just learned. Through the Holy Spirit, we go down deep in God's Word (i.e., living water, see 7:37-39) so we can be lifted up in worship. The word "worship" literally means "worth-ship". When we see the worth of God in the truth of Scripture, it has the effect of transforming us and bringing excitement, joy, gratitude, and peace as we understand just how worthy God is of our admiration and praise.
@@realfetchboy During the course of my Christian life (66 years) I have experienced the felt presence of God in corporate worship only a handful of times. But in each case a hushed silence fell over the congregation -- you could hear a pin drop. Isaac Watts wrote a hymn that expresses the feeling well: "How sweet and awesome is the place with Christ within the doors, while everlasting love displays the choicest of her stores." I remember hearing a tape of Martyn Lloyd-Jones speaking to a group of Baptist, I think here in America, and he made the comment that Baptists like to shout "amen!" But when the Holy Spirit really began to move, he said, a hushed silence would fall. You sensed that you were in the presence of the holy God.
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Powerful biblical teaching. Grateful to be at a church that is God exalting, Christ focused.
Thank u so much for this.what a wonderful truth.. Soli deo gloria❤🙏
Biblical worship vs entertainment/hymns worship 🇺🇸
I’m just waiting for this guy to say Bueller, Bueller
The Bible never says the gifts ceased. Not anywhere. I don’t really care what anyone else said - show it to me in the Bible or don’t tell me it’s true.
Show me where they are still occurring . You're saying they are still happening, where. That would be huge news. Where is it going on.
I'm afraid you got me lost here, on a couple of points. First of all, it is hard for me to see what the difference is between "individual worship" and "corporate worship." Worship is worship. It involves consciously entering into the presence of God and praising Him, whether we do this individually or collectively. And ideally, we should feel the presence of God in it.
I also think that you might be misinterpreting I Corinthians 14, reading a modern church service back into the text. It must be remembered that there were no church buildings in the First Century. Rather, the entire Christian community in a given city was considered a "church," but within the context of these large metropolitan churches there were smaller groups that met on a weekly basis in private homes. Periodically the larger group meet gather in a public place, and that seems to be the picture in chapter 14. Paul says "when you (the church at Corinth) come together . . ." (v 26). Unbelievers are present (v. 23). As a result there is a strong emphasis on decency and order, and public appearance. Among other things, women are not permitted to speak ((vv. 34,35). But in the weekly home gatherings things would be done a bit informally, and there would be an agape meal in which the Lord's Table would be observed. Presumably in those contexts women would be permitted to speak, as long as they had their heads covered (I Cor. 11).
The difference is that one is singular and one is communal. How you worship individually is going to be different to how you do so as a group. A church service in the 21st century follows quite a similar structure to those of the early days - Justin Martyr details an example in his writings. There were some church buildings, though until AD 70 Chrsitians continued to mainly worship in the temple in Jerusalem.
I hear a lot of people today define worship as feeling the presence of God. The problem is, what does the presence of God feel like? How do I know it as distinct from my other feelings? Isn't God always present whether I feel Him or not? Didn't He promise to never leave us or forsake us?
Feelings are subjective and not a reliable measure of the work of God either in an individual believer or in a group of them. When Jesus talks to the woman at the well in John 4, He says the Father seeks true worshipers who worship Him in spirit and in truth. A study of the type of corporate worship she experienced as a Samaritan will show a striking similarity to today's emphasis in many churches on emotions as the measure of worship. For the Jews, they prided themselves on their grasp of Scripture. Yet Jesus brings both together in one statement with the emphasis on the truth of Scripture as the leader. You can see this play out in the text in her own excitement. She was in the presence of God, but initially felt suspicion, pride, guilt, and curiosity. It's not until she hears the truth from the Word of God in flesh and realizes Who she is talking to that her feelings change to wonder and excitement. Note that she left her water pot. It wasn't important anymore in the face of what she'd just learned.
Through the Holy Spirit, we go down deep in God's Word (i.e., living water, see 7:37-39) so we can be lifted up in worship. The word "worship" literally means "worth-ship". When we see the worth of God in the truth of Scripture, it has the effect of transforming us and bringing excitement, joy, gratitude, and peace as we understand just how worthy God is of our admiration and praise.
@@realfetchboy During the course of my Christian life (66 years) I have experienced the felt presence of God in corporate worship only a handful of times. But in each case a hushed silence fell over the congregation -- you could hear a pin drop. Isaac Watts wrote a hymn that expresses the feeling well: "How sweet and awesome is the place with Christ within the doors, while everlasting love displays the choicest of her stores."
I remember hearing a tape of Martyn Lloyd-Jones speaking to a group of Baptist, I think here in America, and he made the comment that Baptists like to shout "amen!" But when the Holy Spirit really began to move, he said, a hushed silence would fall. You sensed that you were in the presence of the holy God.
@@realfetchboy If it is truly the presence of God, there is no confusion about wondering whether it is or not.
@@realfetchboy God is omnipresent.