The Steroid Era Robbed Him of a Hall of Fame Career
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- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2023
- Hey everyone!
For the first video of the year, I decided to take a look at one of the most interesting players on the hall of fame ballot, Bobby Abreu. It's easy to write him off right away due to his lack of accolades, but he has a very intriguing statistical case. Do you think Bobby Abreu should be a hall of famer?
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I used to love playing seasons as the Phillies on AllStar baseball 2003 and always appreciated Abreus clutch consistency. I wish he could've been an 08 World champion. Although, Werth was iconic lol
You’ve never played that game before
@@skythatguy tf is wrong with you
Maaaan All Star baseball was my shit. The square box for power hitting, and you could angle the contact shadow to pull or push the ball.
I spent many, many hours on all star baseball.
@Mike West hell yeah! That was the only game I every played on that Xbox lol. The Xbox has been long gone and I now play on an emulator on PC
@@skythatguy what makes you say that?
Definitely, Bobby Abreu doesn't get talked about enough. This video does him justice.
It’s called the hall of fame, not the hall of very good
So glad Bobby Abreu is getting some love. My mom and I used to watch him play with the Phillies ALL the time. He was one of her favorite players ever, and he was always one we felt never got the recognition he deserved
Averaged 155 games within a 14 year span
Averaged 171 Hits within a 12 year span
Averaged 39 2B's within a 14 year span
Averaged 95 RBI's within a 13 year span
Averaged 100 BB's within a 14 year span
Averaged 27 SB's within a 14 year span
If that's not hall of fame worthy, then I don't know what is.
Another guy who was quietly consistent
Might be one of the most underrated players of all time... It is all because he played in a timespan that could easily be one of the worst teams in phillies history... The phillies were a joke from 1995-2003... Jim Thome arrived in '03 and finally gave them some juice and they almost made the playoffs... Think Abreu got traded in 2006... The trade the phillies did with the yankees was terrible too... Would have been nice to see him win a championship with the 2008 team. Abreu was very loyal to the phillies when he easily could have demanded a trade like Scott Rolen.
And consistently "good" doesn't make you a Hall of Famer. Consistently great makes you one.
Bobby Abreu was my favorite player growing up. Thank you for taking the time to research and highlight his career
Statistically, especially when you consider his power-speed combo, I think he should absolutely be in the Hall. He was one of the smartest, craftiest hitters I ever saw. Rarely struck out, worked pitcher's counts. As a Braves fan, I was alway afraid of him when he came up, cuz I knew it was going to be a battle. When I look at his whole body of work and how similar it is with alot of other players, I just can't justify not putting him in.
He lead MLB in pitches per at bat, numerous times. Worked the count as much as anyone in the past 50 years
Yes there have been few players with a better power-speed combo in the history of the game, for the period of time that Bobby played, and on top of that, elite-level plate discipline. I don't know if he's a sure-ballot hall-of-famer, but definitely deserves some debate about it. Plus for what it's worth, there's also the character clause and what he did with the community and what he's doing now with international prospects
I think he could get in stats and otherwise but he is a fringe case and needs to get support from the fans like walker's fans helped him do. It wont be early if it happens 9th or 10th year but i think at worst Abreu deserves to be close to getting in when his eligibility runs out.
Worth noting that the Phillies did add him to our wall of fame (think you even used a photo from him in the jersey in the video) a few years back. He's definitely getting a bit of a rehabilitation in the city and gets cheered now when he's at the ball park.
Probably the most underrated player of his generation.
Bottom of the 9th, 3 balls & 2 strikes, 2 outs and my life on the line I would definitely choose Bobby Abreu as the hitter. He had one of the best compact contact swings & had a 2 strike approach like very few hitters of the past 2 decades.
I'm a Venezuelan from Caracas and a fan of Abreu's boyhood club in Venezuela's winter league, Leones del Caracas, and I must tell you, here he is revered as a legend. Like, we worship him. And 53 is a special number, I think we even retired the number.
I remember Bob “Ah-Brew” becoming one of my favorite players. Not because of his merits but because I used to but baseball cards regularly from 1998-2007, and I had ridiculous stretches of getting his card in packs.
In one year I had a Bobby Abreu in 20+ consecutive different packs! 😂
The only reason why I will remember him is a comment that former Baltimore Orioles reliever Jamie Walker said about him after losing a game.
In an extremely thick southern accent, Jamie broke down his disappointing outing:
"Ah mean thair the Yankees. Thair line-up is tough, mayan. First, Ah leddup a rahged shib to Ah-bray-who, then, I leddup ahnutha rahged shib to Ay-rahd..."
Almost 2500 hits, career average over 290, career on base over 390, career ops+ better than rickey Henderson, johnny bench and kirby puckett. I'd say he's a hall of famer. And you also gotta consider he's a non steroid guy during the steroid Era, so in a way that ops+ should be given a boost
Abreu was my favorite when I was little. Like OP says, he was seen as a good player, but never garnered the respect he should have gotten. I've met Abreu twice since then and he's a great guy. I really want him to get in because of the personal connection, but I don't think writers see him the same way unfortunately
I loved Abreu on the Yankees. He seemed to always fall behind 0-2 in the count, then go to work and somehow end up with a full count after like that nine pitchers. I loved the ‘09 championship team but it was such a bummer that Abreu and Mike Mussina missed out on it.
Thanks for this.
Bobby was amazing with the ysnkees n in 2008 especially. I loved Bobby abreau. N I watched him win the derby live. Bobby was the man. Long live Bobby. I have a wine bottle with his face on it lol.
I loved Bobby! Thanks SportStorm!
IMO Abreu is that he was too balanced/complete of a hitter in an era where the home run reigned supreme. He should be in the Hall!
Thanks for the video. In my opinion Abreu is easily a Hall of Famer. Maybe the most underrated under appreciated player in the last 50 years
Great video
Why nobody ever mentions him being clean in the late 90s early 00s as a positive? I have heard this talking point for other players but never for Abreu for some reason.
Philly loves Abreu forever.. He was the nucleus when he was in Philly
I never watched Abreu play, but because he is exactly the type of player I love, and he doesnt get enough respect he has become someone I pull for in any discussion
To be clear, from 2001-2006, the Phillies won 80, 85, 88, and 86 games 3 times. In today's playoff setting they would have made the playoffs 2-3 times.
I'm a "Big Hall" guy, mainly because there are already so many "mediocre players" in the HOF. Abreu is borderline, but he seems a lot better statwise and rate wise than most Hall of famers. Give the man some recognition.
Loved hearing Harry Kalas announce his name back in the day
Bobby was my go to fantasy player. I won two years in a row at work with him. Had folks pissed 😂
Bobby Abreu is a perfect example for the hall of very good.
loved to see a video for the HoF case for Robin Ventura. Probably the best overall 3b in the 90's
What about Scott Rolen
@@NewYorkGiants012 without question, I hope he gets voted next year since he finished with 63% of the vote this year
I would say Matt Williams was the best 3B in the 90s (and should be in the HOF), but Ventura is closer to HOF level than a lot of people think.
@@donwhiteley3293 you might be right in him... Wow those numbers
@@donwhiteley3293 Hard to make a case against that period. I'm sure the player's committee would put his name up, just glad he owned up to the PED use. Still a great 3B
Bobby was an awesome player, thanks for showing us in this context 😊
Watching him every day growing up, I'm convinced he's a HOF player. Sucks the Phillies were mediocre his entire tenure here.
They weren't. They won about the same amount of games every year as this year's WS team. if the playoff format had changed back in 2001-2006 they'd have made it 2-3 times.
Consistency and stable stats should matter more
Saw him play for both Philly and the Yankees
He was underrated for sure
Yo Bobby Abreu was mad nice in the early 2000's.
1. I'm a big hall guy myself 2. One other thing that's hurts abreu is the 10 ballot limit
That baseball reference screenshot at 8:45 tells the story. If he had a 70+ WAR instead of 60, he’s in the HOF. If he had a career .300 average instead of .291, he’s in. If he had 300 homers instead of 288 to go with the 400 SBs, he’s in. He strikes me as a Joe Nathan / Andy Petitte -type. “Hall of Very Good” and “Hall of Consistent” don’t exist, but I’m sure Abreu isn’t losing any sleep at night. He played clean in an era where many didn’t, he made his millions, and he was never controversial while sprinkling in some nice accolades like the silver slugger and home run derby win. To suit up as a position player for a major league team at age 40 speaks for itself too. Good video!
Thank you! You can add Mark Buehrle to the "hall of consistent" too. I wonder where he and Abreu end up placing on the ballot this year
kind of hard to get a 70+ war when your peers are juicing and average 9-10 WAR a season. The guy has 1400 career BBs, if he swung the bat more he could easily have had more hits or hrs. Look at the stats again... He drove in almost 1400 runs, scored 1400 runs, walked 1400 times, stole 500 bases. Compare him to Tim Raines.... He's easily in.
Me and my dad have argued each other on this for years.
Thanks for the new ammunition! Love to see I'm not the only one comparing him to Vlad Sr.
Thank you! Abreu is so under appreciated imo.
The most contradicting thing is that "Small Hall" Has Harold Baines in it
I remember growing up, watching my Atlanta Braves. Was always worried when we played the Phillies, Abreu seemed to always play very well and get on base like it was just another day for him!
Love to see a video on Mark Grace. Led the 90s in hits
It still blows my mind that someone could put up an above .900 OPS in 5 STRAIGHT SEASONS and not make a single all star game or top 10 MVP finish in that span.
Terrible teams combined with 30-40 guys putting up an OPS of .900 each year during the height of the steroid era will do that.
@@donwhiteley3293 THEY HAD WINNING TEAMS!!!!!AHHHHH. Why are Philly fans so clueless? They won 85-88 games a year from 2001 to 2006. This year's WS team won 87!!!!!!
I was literally thinking about him since he’s trending better (but still not great) on the ballot. I think he’ll get in when the ballot clears a bit more.
Smoothest swing bro. I always use it in the sjow
I always put him on my ballot in OOTP when he's there to vote for. He was definitely more ballplayer than people remember him for.
Used to my go to free agency pickup in oldschool mlb the show franchise
Thank you
Those "never won the world series" phillies teams he played for were massive. If the 2003 team came together in the early 90s, they'd have been an absolute dynasty.
I hope Abreu gets in just so I can be even more pissed at the fact that the Devil Rays traded him for 3 years of Kevin fucking Stocker
Very much underrated.
He had a great eye and pitch recognition at the plate. Not the fastest player but could steal bases.
If people ever paid attention at all to a lot of those early 2000s Phillies teams, than Abreu would've easily been a HOF. There were more than a few years there where we'd constantly be, in the wild card race at least, and we'd think we had a good nucleus of a team, that we were starting to build, and then we'd get only one All-Star named to the team, and it'd be like, our closer, or someone like that. It was annoying and it didn't help that we were in the same division as the Braves during their dominance of the NL East, and we often just didn't have the pitching yet. Abreu wasn't the only Phil who kept getting overlooked, and even in Philly, we kinda saw players like Vlad Guerrero in particular during that time, and we saw Abreu and wished he could be a little more like him, but Abreu was a damn good player for a long time. He'd hit for average, his speed was dangerous, he was always a tough out, and okay, the defense could've been better, but it was still pretty good, and he had a helluva canon out there too. He played a lot to get those outfield assists, but there were a lot of years where he was at or near the top of the league for that; runners thought twice before running on him. In a different era, in a different media market where people paid attention to him, he'd easily be a HOF. It's always annoyed me that, especially for Abreu, everybody missed how good his prime was.
Abreu was my fav playing growing up on the Phillies I was heart broken when we traded him and even more when we won without him in 08. He deserves to be in the HOF so does Rollins! Utley will be in with out a doubt but jrol and abreu deserve to be in as well!
Abreu is one of the best ball players ever!!
Mr foolish baseball has said he doesn't have HOF "vibes" which you've encapsulated and which the BBWAA seem to go by a lot of the time. Unsexy in the major counting stats and lack of accolades. Certainly worth consideration though
Exactly Foolish explain it perfect, if he was able stay get ring maybe end at 300hr probably make his case much more clearer for MLB voter
yeah Abreu's case is as borderline as it gets
I’ve been saying this for years. Dude is statistically very similar to Vlad Sr
Very similar stats, but Vlad had the bigger offensive peak
@@SportStorm23 very true. Vlad was also (rightfully so) a much bigger name star and hit for quite a bit more power. Part of the reason why it shocked me when did research for it for a project back in 2020
I'm sold
Definitely would sway me more toward him getting in, I mean such a consistent player. I view Andruw Jones of the two more deserving rivals of the Mets teams I grew up watching
Me vladdy and bobby Abreu are the 4 time back to back world series champions for the yankees in mlb 06 the show so needless to say I have countless appreciation for this man
Abreu was dangerous man. I will always have respect for that dude. Felt like he killed the cardinals for a few years with Philly.
He was consistent with 100 RBI’s and 100 walks
Sad he never got a ring with either team. Would probably help his case for the hall if he had a memorable World Series.
Hot take, Fred Lynn is the most underrated player of all time. Just look at his br page
He got robbed of MVP in 1979
I like Lynn but check out Bobby Grich's BR to see truly underrated
wow how did he not win MVP in 1979?
@@SportStorm23 some reasons
Red Sox finished 3rd in the division
Don Baylor’s great season coincided with the first angels playoff birth in franchise history so writers saw him as “most valuable” along with leading the league in some traditionally loved stats in runs scored and RBIs.
Fred Lynn had already won MVP in 1975 so there may have been some voter fatigue
woah in 98 36 players had an ops of .900 or more???? Thats insanity
It went up for the next couple seasons too. 43 players in 1999 and 48 in 2000. It started to go down with 37 in 2001 and 29 in 2002.
Good vid but where’s the Jeremy Peña video?
They shoulda put Bobby Abreu in the hall immediately after round 1 of the ‘05 home run derby
Yes he is 👍💯
Most reliable bat so under rated
On the Home Run stolen base chart you need to fix Willie mays's numbers it says seven seasons but the years add up to 16 Season
He always has been underrated. He never could make the All Star team for years because of Sosa getting the start and then some w/ sexier HR numbers. Ironically it was after Sosa left Chicago and Abreu had a few HR hitting seasons in which he made the All Star team. No reason why he’s not a HOFer. He stays with Philly or the Yanks in the WS years and he’s in.
Sosa fue un gran tramposo al igual que muchos más y sin embargo abreu lucho contra eso de manera digna merece ser hof por haber trabajado limpiamente
Abreu came to Anaheim to do what all aging, over the hill MLB players do.
Pick up some great paychecks for what you did for your past teams! Any questions? Just ask Albert Pujols.!
i dont think he was a generational talent, but to me he was underrated heavily. Consistent and good players deserve respect and memory, but not a hall of fame. Even guys like Ryan Howard who was generational, didn't last or have the numbers for the hall...
Funny the ops guys that hit 900 or the most consecutive seasons half were on juice n a few played at coors or hitter friendly ball parks
Put that man in the baseball ⚾️ hall of fame
Great career
I think those SB might look a bit different if he didn't get to face Jason Kendall, Mike Piazza, and Javy Lopez so much, but he still has my vote.
Bobby should get in for his homerun derby alone. He got the entire Tiger's stadium to chant his name!
Rewards 😳
Bobby should without a doubt singles like gwynn n ichiro with more power, his defense wasnt great but wasnt bad some 5 war seasons..He wasnt voted mvp but he shoulda been for 2 or 3 seasons
I think he’s essentially where he should be. A solid player with a fringe case but ultimately shouldn’t be in. HoF is for the best of the best and should stay that way.
Anyone who puts up a .290 career BA and 2500 hits deserves the HOF in my opinion... Abreu was an outstanding player... Never juiced either when everyone else was... His career was right in the height of the steroid era.. Imagine the numbers he would have had if he did use roids... Prolly would have put up 500 home runs instead of 300.
9:58 can you link the article?
www.mlb.com/news/bobby-abreu-hall-of-fame-case-discussion
@@SportStorm23 thx
Abreu, Darrell Evans, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, and Eddie Yost are the only players in the top 20 all time walks leaders that aren't in the Hall of Fame. I've been saying Evans needs to be in the Hall for 30 years. He's 12th on the list. Abreu is 20th.
Anyone else think Abreu looks exactly like Sammy Sosa in the thumbnail?
He was a very very good player, but that doesn't make him Cooperstown-worthy. His only HOF "stat" is his 60 WAR, and just having 60 WAR doesn't guarantee your entrance into the hall of fame.
I wish Abreu had gotten more recognition during his career, and WAR would've helped with that, but that doesn't mean we have to elect him to the HOF just to make up for that.
He was a number hanger
If Harold Baines can get in then there is no doubt Abreu should be in
True dat
He would be a perfect player in this era
Like it or not, the simple reality is if you don't win a ring, you have to be more great than the people who did. It might not be fair, but it is what it is
Not only that, but Abreu cratered after that HR derby performance and never hit more than 20HR in a season after that and never hit .300 again.
I still have my Yankees 53 jersey but because he’s an OF his numbers will never stack up to those in his era
I still don't think he was borderline. His talent was so spread out that people don't seem to realize there was more total than a lot of players currently in the hall. Jim Thome has 19 stolen bases over 22 seasons... dude stole less than a base a year. He was stationary in the field. He clearly was not a five-tool player, while Abreu was much closer to that. Thome never won an MVP either, and never got a GG or SS, while Abreu did. I still vote Abreu in.
Here's another thing about WAR: it's presentation is general, but it's situational. If Thome is hitting multiple home runs in non-pivotal blowout games and it's compounding his WAR, that's not fair to a clutch dude that has the discipline to walk in a winning run.
No particular reason for picking Thome; he was just the first person I saw less deserving than Abreu. There are tons.
you're comparing apples to oranges. Thome and Abreu couldn't be any more different. Sure, Thome has only 19 SBs, but also has 324 more HRs and 271 more BBs, and despite Thome striking out 708 more times than Abreu, Thome only has 142 fewer total hits than Abreu. Also just for the record, Thome did win a Silver Slugger, it's right on his BBR page. While Thome is kind of a lousy hall of famer, he is most certainly more worthy than Bobby Abreu.
He may actually bc he keeps increasing every year
He was a guy that I was like “How did you get so many stolen bases?!”
I did not realize how many stolen bases he had before I started research for the video
@@SportStorm23 Even in his mid-late 30’s with the Angels looking more pudgy he was still averaging 25 stolen bases per year.
He was a great player. He might get into the Hall of Fame. I have nothing against that. Glad Fred McGriff got in this year through the Modern Era Committee or whatever it was called. I'd say he may get in, but at the same time maybe not. Like Jim Rice, he's borderline HOF. I didn't really watch him play much except maybe in 2007 and 2008 as a Red Sox fan, so I can't say for sure how good he was.
Lost his job on the angels to some guy named mike trout smh
Abreu is the most underrated player ever
I dont think any sports writers should have any vote or determination to vote guys into the hall of fame for any sport. It should only be made up elected committees for solely former players and hall of fame players only.
I predict he will be in the hall of fame one day. Maybe not soon though