I Spent $8000 on Cinema Zooms - Was It Worth It?
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Are cinema zooms the right fit for documentary filmmakers, despite being way more expensive than stills lenses? In this video I’m going to look at the cinema zooms I’ve used for the last 5 years of documentary shooting and give my thoughts on whether or not they were worth the money.
#filmmaking #documentary #lenses #review
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1:26 - Before you buy, hear this
4:28 - Advantages of the Fujinon lenses
6:28 - A deep dive on the image quality
7:05 - Built quality
7:35 - Disadvantages of the Fujinon lenses
8:35 - Should you invest in cinema lenses?
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Made the mistake of buying gear on credit this year with promises of work and now I'm stuck with $9k in credit card debt and trying to work my way out of debt and finding opportunities. Please whoever watches this heed the warning DO NOT BUY GEAR ON CREDIT!!!!(Unless you already have the funds stored and were going to buy them anyway but can immediately put the cash down to zero it out)
Ah man, sorry to hear that. I've been there myself and I guess some lessons we just have to learn the hard way. You'll get out of it though, and when you do I'm sure you'll never make this mistake again. 👊🏻
@@LucForsyth I appreciate the encouragement and surely will not do it ever again.
I agree. Guys like Luc here are great in encouraging to “use what you have”. These “RUclipsrs” keep pushing product constantly sadly and that’s the world today 🥲
That’s unfortunate bro think about renting the gear out. Just an option.
What did you buy ?
Thank you! That was great and to the point. I've been questioning what to rent for our next short, and these came in as an excellent runner-up. It is great to hear about this experience, as I am coming into the industry with as weird outside angle and trying to make a name for myself. Can't wait to hear more and learn more from you.
informative video Thanks Luc
My pleasure John!
Great informative video, Luc, I love the "no bullshit, no filler, straight to the point" approach. Thank you 🙏
Thanks man, appreciate it!
great info. thx. Hello from Vancouver .
such an amazing review
the look of a few camera setups increased my motivation to use them. i've found great pleasure in setting up something that fits my needs and that makes you want to get out and use it.
Love this style video from you man.
Awesome, good to know! I'm obviously a gear nerd like the rest of us, but want to find a way to talk about it without encouraging rampant consumerism...hopefully this video did that!
My absolute dream lenses!!! Well done yo! inspiring
Thanks Aiden, I've loved them personally!
I really like the way you go about presenting this as something people should hesitate to do, and reminding us that you were in fact working full time and this was a purchase you could afford. With so many review channels on youtube today discussing the newest and most expensive gear, it can be disheartening as a filmmaker watching them when you realize it's miles out of your budget. This video feels much friendlier to me as someone who is just breaking in and getting jobs with only the gear I can afford.
Great to hear! Yeah it took me a very long time to build up to this kit, no need to get everything all at once
Hi Luc! I'm enjoying your videos, thanks for the balanced insight. Do I buy a house or a cinema camera and lens? lol
Not just for docs! I was working as an actor on the last couple of episodes of Murdoch Mysteries this year (not as much a thing in the US, but it’s the CBC’s biggest drama and plays all over Europe) and these were the exact lenses they were using. They can obviously afford much more expensive prime lenses on that show, but they shoot really fast, and move quickly from setup to setup, and the look they got out of them is great - the DP was nominated (again) for a Canadian Screen Award.
Really? that's wild. I worked on a MM spinoff, Frankie Drake, for a brief period - small world!
@@LucForsyth nice, me too! I played Steven (Mary’s boyfriend) on the last season. Loved doing Frankie. What kind of work were you doing on it?
I’ve been really enjoying your videos, btw. Nice stuff!
@@bensanders2101 Nice! I was on S1. I'm not a union DP, so I was there mainly to shadow the series DP and see if I was interested in making the switch into IATSE. Ultimately I decided docs were a better fit for me though!
@@LucForsyth Nice - right on, man!
@@LucForsyth Why did you decided to not work in tv/film but in docs? Just curious!
One of the joys of the sigma fp is you can change the focus throw of the sigma lenses. Think it might be as much as 90-720. Also on mpb in the Uk there is an Mk 18-50 for £1,199 currently. And finally they now make it x mount. Which is kind of cool as it transmits focal length for ibis if you want to use it. Very interesting video (as ever).
Yeah, I love the sigma's as well - definitely the best bang for the buck option out there and I have quite a few in my kit!
Love my MK’s I was able to pick them used but in mint conditions!
Somehow I see them very use fully for landscapes as well. That parfocal are sooo usefully in many other ways.
Intresting.Thank You
Awesome zooms! Whats your opinion on UV filters for lens protection? Thanks Luc, I appreciate it!
We have a set of these at the TV network i work for here in AUS. Amazing set, lovely to work with. Definitely a better look than my 24 to 70 2.8. Wish i could personally afford them. The macro is super useful too.
At some recent tech convention i think DZO or another company announced full frame versions of these. 24 to 70 and 70 to 200 t2.9 to cover full frame sensor. Might be worth a look for you some time down the track.
Love your videos keep it up.
Yeah, not cheap at all, but been good value over time - as long as you don't smash them!
Would love to see a new S35 Sony come out, it's still my favourite format and i'm not sold on full frame yet for a few reasons
I rented The Wider Zoom Once Upon a Time and really enjoyed using it. I have been considering buying one, but was curious which primes might cut well with it. Given the mileage you have on yours, what have you found prime wise that works well? Specifically regarding color and contrast. Thank you in advance
It would be helpful to show examples of what you’re talking about, e.g. smooth aperture ring changing exposure. Show us what you’re seeing.
Hey Luc.. great video and looking forward to your cinematography course.. I am still hustling with my Fujifilm XT4. The only thing I hate about it is , overheat. Thinking to switch to Panasonic. Any thought about that… 😀
I love fuji for stills, but not much experience using them for video. And never shot on the GH cameras unfortunately, so can't help you I'm afraid! Heard good things though...
@@LucForsyth thank you for the reply.. Any timeline for your cinematography course?
Hey Luc. As always, appreciate the honest assessment. Do you feel 18 is wide enough on Super 35? Do you ever find yourself wanting to go wider?
Hey Scott - I'd say most of the time it's good enough as a 24mm FF equivalent, as much wider than this starts to distort and look un-real. I personally don't shoot wider than this very often , but I also carry a 16-35 for the odd time I need it.
I've loved working with the Fujinon MK lenses in the past when shooting with FS5 and 7. I'm sad that I run an FX6 because it means these lenses aren't really a great option for us. Worth noting to my fellow viewers that they also make these in Fujifilm X-mount (MKX lenses). Cheers and thanks for another great video!
Yeah, it's the main reason I don't use an FX6 myself. I'd love one, but don't want to give up these lenses
why they come in e mount?
Clear image zoom makes these viable on the fx6
@@sc400kby how much do you have to apply Clear Image Zoom for each lens before the vignette disappears?
@@willfg Roughly 1.5x
I really wanted to get these lenses but the mount options available for them made them a no go. They are beautiful lenses though. The Tokinas were what I ended up going with HEAVY but they're really nice too.
Do you think the DZOFilm Catta full frame cine zooms would be ok to take on a professional doc shoot, or is it safer to stick with the Fujinon name?
Much like still lenses in in Not doubting their quality, the DZO Look stunning, but wondering if that would fly on a Nat Geo doc, or a Netflix production.
Cheers!
I use this lens with my FX6 with the Clear Image Zoom function.
I just ordered the mft versions of these lenses for my bmpcc 4k because I wanted some parfocal zooms to go with my sigma art zooms for shooting music videos. I hope they live up to the hype and I hope they are true parfocal lenses.
Thank you for this video! You’ve been saving me tons of money, because I wasn’t aware of the s35-Problem with the fx6. I already had my hands on both of them (the lens set and the fx6), but now…
Do you have any idea which lens comes close to the fujinon in functionality and image?
For a FF camera I'm not really sure. There are decent looking options from DZO and a few other manufacturers, but I haven't tried many of them out personally. These things hit a weird sweet spot for me and I haven't found a FF equivalent I like as much - but that's not to say that it doesn't exist!
The main "full frame equivalents" in the price range would be the DZO Catta and the new Laowa Ranger lenses. The Fujinon looks really nice and I don't think either of those capture it like that, but you get a full stop of dof (so you could film a 28mm at T4 and get basically the same image as the fuji at 18/2.8. So you can go shallower or just shoot more closed down for better sharpness). However I can't say wether the Laowas or the Dzos are better. Maybe we can get the guys at the CVP to do a test between the 3 lenses (laowa, fuji and dzo) if we ask them enough
@@gabrielmachadobsb thanks!
Great video!
The FX6 also have a S35 mode I believe?
Yes, but not 4K
Yeah, sensor crops down to 1080p.
The FX9 hat a 6K Sensor, so if you shoot S35 the sensor of fx9 crops down to 4K
I'll be honest, I've handled a few lenses (surely not as many as you) and the smoothest focus pull I've felt is on the Canon EF-M 55-200mm lens. It was a noticeably smooth focus. Could be just the one I got, as I've never heard anyone describe it as smooth
I'm kinda in the same boat about choosing a lense.
Got now an X-T3, so no AF working there. I'll upgrade later for X-S20 to get Braw possibility, and 422 10bit.
I'm looking either for the 18-120 f4 PZ (Electronic Zoom parfocal fuji X)
Or for Cine lens,
Fujinon MKX 18-55 like yours.
Or an old Angenieux 17-102... But it's 19lb (8.9kg).
Or looking for a less old Angenieux 17-80, 12lbs, still heavy, but less !
In that Idea, I'm loving the way 18-120 is freaking liteweight and cheap.
Or I'm loving the way to get a PL mount if I change camera system one day.
The MKX make me keeping the X-mount.
What would you do ?
The physical appearance does matter! I have a TTArtisan 35mm f/1.4 and it's the smallest lens I've ever seen in my life. Although I love how the shots come out, I honestly feel weird shooting with it. My own cosmetic opinion aside, that lens with my Fujifilm X-T3 (the silver one) makes people on every job I do think I'm taking still on film and clients get very skeptical of me.
NIce! I shoot fuji for stills pretty much exclusively these days just because I love the design
As a photographer I get a thumbs up, but when I do video, people don't look very happy 😅
Hello Luc ! Thanks again for the spot on topic. What about image stabilisation? Any issues working with un-stabilized lenses in handheld situations? Would it be absurd to slap a cine zoom on a FX30 as a starter kit? Cheers !
No IS on these guys. I personally only use IS sparingily as I don't like the look of them when they readjust, that weird motion adjustment thing they do when they're recalibrating themselves. But that's just me and lots of people love it. IS is usually more helpful on lighter rigs where there's a lot of jitter from your hands. But on bigger rigs the weight is usually enough to make things look good without IS. They'll look great on your fx30, but the form factor might be a bit front heavy, so I'd personally go with something smaller and work your way up to something like this over time
@@LucForsyth Awesome, thanks again.
I shoot full frame and don't have the budget so if I understood well this is the perfect time to buy some expensive cinema zoom lenses on credit. Thanks Luc !
Haha, exactly! Swipe away!
These are not only for Sony, they’re available on Fuji X as well, and have been since they were released
suggedtion for full frame cine glass for docu?
Are these lenses worth it for the FX6? I realize this would mean I would have to use the S35 mode and lose the capability to shoot in 4K.
I’ve worked with the 50-135 a lot. I prefer the organic look but it’s a lot harder for people who have never shot with it before to learn the feel. How do you guys rig your focus system with this lens ?
I used to mount a FF to a VCT plate with 15mm rails, but these days I'm trying to keep weight minimal so I normally don't even use a FF. Pretty simple!
Hey Luc, great financial advice! You couldn’t be more realistic! Correction: the Fuji 19-90mm weights 6 pounds (I own the XK6x20 with 20-120mm and it is also 6 pounds). The length and weight of the XK is kind of a problem when used with smaller cameras and without tools like Easyrig. I love my PL lens but I wish I’d stopped myself from buying it because of the weight and instead get two as you did.
Hello Luc, do you have links to a project you shot with those Fuji MK Cine? I realize your clients own the content but perhaps I can rent via their distributor? You won't remember but I tried to hire you in Mexico City a few years ago but you were in Canada.
Hey, nice to hear from you again! I've shot a ton on these, but that first project I referenced was this: ruclips.net/video/BI8-GZ1YoFk/видео.html
should i buy catta zooms?
what about with the FX30?
Any one got any recommendation for full frame cinema zooms??
The Fujinon MK series currently is available in Sony E, RF & Micro 4/3 mounts natively, with a robust market of solid third parties making L & PL conversion kits for the lenses. (Although I personally haven’t seen an EF conversion kit available, I would wager that there’s likely one available that you can trust as well should you want to go down that route.) I’d consider these lenses to be pretty broadly accessible across the S35 user base, and wouldn’t get too hung up on Luc’s first point re: the Sony E mount availability. That said, always try and get your lens in its native mount, as converters are another point of potential failure.
you are not gonna get EF mount as the flange depth is way more and you could not get infinity focus.
Agree with you on the converters 100% - just one more thing to go wrong. Didn't know about m43 mounts, looks like there's lots of option now!
I do use a simple technique to buy or not gear. If i fell a need of a tool more than 3 times in a month on basic jobs I'll buy it. If I got a job that need an specific lens or camera and it pays well, I'll buy it.
The rule number on to me is never bought a cam, a lens, or another equipment just for expecting it to be use in the future, just because it's "nice"
Im well aware of this lens combo and looks like you use them heavily. However I noticed on all the clips that you seem to shift focus and aperture simply using your hands. How is that with the long focus throw? Is there a reason you dont use a follow focus, either manual or powered?
The throw is manageable by hand for sure. To go full extreme end to end it's a little trickier, but it's never been an issue for me. I have a follow focus that I use, but that means adding a baseplate to get rails and these days I'm trying to keep weight down as much as possible. Works great with an FF though for sure!
You said that you used them in all weather conditions including rain. Afaik they're not weather sealed - what's your experience with using them in rain?
While I love other brands of zooms...I really, really, really like the these Fujinons Luc. Quality glass.
Same here!
I belive you can use these on FX6 with the "Clear Image Zoom" setting
it works and it looks pretty good but it's also hindering the sensor's potential. I'd get the fujinons for the fx30 and use the FX6 with primes and sony PZ lenses if you have them.
@0:25 is that Aldo Kane? Legend in his own right...
haha, yes! He's a total legend and a great guy.
Correction Luc, the FX6 does have a S35 mode. I have these lenses and work them all the time on my FX6 and 9.
Yes and no. While there is a S35 mode on the FX6, it crops into the 4k sensor leaving you with 1080p (IIRC). On the FX9, the sensor covers 6k in resolution and downscales/crops to 4k for FF/S35.
Ah, too bad - I got really excited and thought they'd made a firmware tweak or something!
I was really excited there for a second! But yeah, you're right it does technically do it but then it's a cropped sub-4k image which some of my clients won't accept unfortunately. Amazing for anything that doesn't' require full native 4k though!
Julius, you’re correct. Thanks for the correction.
You can use Clear Image Zoom in 4k to “zoom” past the vignette
Literally just got rid of my set. Super light. Wanted full frame though.
Hey Luc. I have been testing the 18-55 on rental on my FS7 and wide open I am getting significant vignetting - did you ever see that? I'm surprised as that is never mentioned. Thanks, Alvin
Very strange - no, never! I’ve used both on fs7 and fx9 and never had vignetting
@@LucForsyth ok thanks, I was definitely getting vignetting wide open when filming DCI 4k; maybe it was just the lens shade.
why does no one talk about the Fujinon 20-120mm t/3.5? seems like a killer one lens setup for the value, can get one secondhand for $6-8k
I use the FX6 …. What lenses similar to these would people recommend? I love these lenses, but having to go to the S35 mode and lose 4K capabilities on the FX6 is a deal breaker.
Laowa and DZOfilm make some excellent cinema zooms. Check them out.
cinema zoom are nice to have , and cinema prime to , i have for many years my 28-70 and 70-200 2.8 , and i have start buying and using prime lents and i like them for the things that i do , iven got a bunch of vintage soviet lents ,
I've heard great things about those old Soviet lenses too!
@@LucForsyth yee thows are nice , but you can easy find only 50mm or 100 mm 135mm not many wild angle or zoom and they have smoth aperture ring , and adapters exist for many modern camera , but nikon f have problem focusing far ,
B&H sells the set in MFT mount for 7800
Nice - great to know they're diversifying the mounts!
I’ve DZO 20-55 Pictor lens which I’m trying to sell for a while. I initially plan to sell it and buy a 18-105 f/4 Sony lens for my FS5 camera. I’m planning to go to a frontline in my country Burma to do a documentary. Thinking about going lightweight with smaller lens. As I still haven’t sold DZO lens yet, may be I should keep this lens and go with it. I might miss the long focus throw and per-focal features of this lens if I changed to small one. What would be your suggestion for my situation?
The DZO’s are awesome and I love the picture they produce. The wider ape rather is also great and I would definitely miss it if switching to an f4. Even when barrel pulling I find that the cine focus ring is great. I would say use what you got for now. And definitely rent the lens you are thinking about getting for a shoot before you pull the trigger on it!
Hey man, that's a unique situation for sure. If you're planning to be out in the jungle hiking for days where those frontlines are you might actually do better with a 18-105 weight wise. I used to have that lens and it really weighs almost nothing. BUT - the focus throw on that thing is not great at all (speaking from experience), and if you're used to the DZO it might bother you. I wish I had a good solution for you other than to keep both, which I'm guessing isn't an option. Personally I'd probably want the Pictor, but only you can decide how much of a problem the extra 2 lbs will be. If it makes a difference, that 18-105 is one of the worst manual focus lenses I've ever used in my personal opinion. Hope that helps a little, and stay safe out there!
I'd probably agree. Though 2 extra pounds can add up in the jungle...
You wouldnt use these on the fx6 or burano?
Burano yes, because it has s35 mode. Fx6 doesn’t, at least not natively in 4k
I have both, there are great.
Agree!
Why buy Crop sensor lenses with a FX9? Not picking, just trying to understand.
Luc first bought these lenses.
One thing slipped past many people. canon FD28-85 and nikkor 28-85 manual zoom lenses from the 1980s. with a speedbooster to an S35 emount. You get 80% of the goodness of the fuji for $200. Stills AF lenses in manual focus.. no chance.
Nice tip - don't know those ones, but sounds like a great deal!
Kinda weird that people think APSC is less cinematic when most movies are shot on an apsc sensor or apsc-sized piece of film.
You can buy different mounts for these lenses.
most films are shot on t1.4 primes which even at s35 size has thin DOF or namorphic which also has thin DOF and pro movie sets tend to be dressed deeper than many real or coproate shoots. So APC and cheap 2.8 zooms in a normal location do indeed look less cinematic. A cheap way to get around that is some affordable full frame primes and a big sensor.
So many great things made on S35!
What's your take on B4 lenses? It seems to be quite an unpopular choice nowadays. Imho they are easier to focus, the servo handles are amazing, even the cheapest lenses covers more than most people can do with a set of stills lenses, and its easier to pack your camera quickly if necessary. Bad: Often lame bokeh, you can pick an ARRI ALEXA for the price of a good lens, the good ones can be actually as big and heavy (or bigger) as S35 lenses.
Personally I find B4 lenses to be slightly easier for true run & gun, when you really need to pick your camera as quick as possible to get the shot, uh like some sports or actual ENG work.
I haven't used them personally...do you like them?
@@LucForsyth for ease of use and ergonomics, absolutely. IQ not so much, although I haven't had a chance to try a UHD lens but I doubt it improves too much.
One more reason to buy cinema lenses - they are barely dropping the price. In my case, I bought DZO Pictor when it’s just came out and the price even rises up. Used cinema lens cost 10-30% lens original price, so you always able to sell the lens with normal money-back, compare to cameras, when in 2-3 years their money value drops 60-80%.
I would rather invest more money in good lenses than buying new camera ;)
Good tips! It's amazing how fast tech loses value, but lenses do hold them much better for sure.
For me Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 will be better choice for a price, AF and lenes stabilize reasons.
Nice! Glad it's working for you!
My man went down the rabbit hole for lens reviews and watched his own video 🤣2:50
Wow 8K for a zoom lens! I am blown away as I only use manual lens and my best zooms set me back about $200 and it works great.
It's a set of two zooms.
@@getfmlr ok, but still a heck of a lot of 🤑
@@cineffect it's actually on the cheaper end for prosumer professional zooms...lol....some of these zooms cost $30,000 each!
You're not wrong, it's a lot of money for sure. Stick with what's working for you!
Yeah, it's a crazy industry we work in where that's cheap, but you're totally right!
Why do people even try to use stills lenses for video work tho?
They're a lot cheaper and lighter than cinema zooms and offer you the flexibility of autofocus.
I get the "don't buy on credit" thing, but I just made enough for the 18-55 in crypto trading and I think it would complement all my photo primes by being the new main lens for video work. Also, freelancing in the last year and a half has made more per hour than working at my video production corporate job, so I think the "deep pockets and want the best" caveat fits my situation. It's probably better to invest in myself than reinvesting that money in a volatile market. I run an fx30 right now and i think this would be the perfect lens for it. Then I'll work and save for the eventual FX9 mkii or whatever they call it.
not worth it
that's good to know too!
Ha no way, Aldo Kane.
"I worked a ton as DP for hire" showing a photo of yourself beside a Kalashnikov.
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, YES, A DP SHOOTS PEOPLE BUT NOT WITH THAT WEAPON! 😂
haha, yes, good distinction to make!
was the four month documentary gig in Mexico, before or after rolling at the 500 dollars documentary course by youyuber Mark Bone, which you encouraged your followers to register in , because it benefited you immensely and expanded your knowledge at documentary filmmaking, while claiming that you do not know the man.. Then after a year, guess who popped up at your channel … yeh your buddy Mark. I really enjoyed your acting at the end of this clip, how you looked into the camera with teary eyes, pleading your followers not to spend their money on useless gear. I guess useless pyramid schemes are OK. I really enjoyed your content man.. . .What a shame.
I met mark after making that video, not before. Is it surprising that we met since we both talk about the same things and live in the same country? Hope your day gets better friend, you seem angry!
There are only two situations where going into debt for gear will benefit you. First, if you get a job that has a high certainly of pay and you require a tool for that specific job. Secondly, if you are spending WAY TOO MUCH TIME shopping for gear, and by clearing out your card with 12 months no interest you will be able to actually get to work. Chances are though, you will just fill the cart back up and not get any work done and be really stressed about it. If you are spending $500/mo on gear certainly you can afford $150/mo payments. You have to have a gig though.