@@jamesroach1180 paradoxical opinions of his former self and his influences as a vampire, effectively two different people at that point. human life 45 years maybe then being a vampire for eons he probably learned to despise humans and hate his formerself
Slixer Raziel killing Raziel using Raziel's future house before the third Raziel moved into his house then tries to get first Raziel to move in as well.
I'd like to think that the golden ouroboros necklace Janos wears and would later give to Raziel in Defiance alludes to that very line. The necklace unlocks the door (which also has the ouroboros symbol) to the Spirit Forge, where an enlightened Raziel would finally accept his fate and imprison himself in the Reaver _while also_ freeing his future self, the Wraith Blade, from centuries of torment by dispersing it into Kain's soul to purify it-once again, Raziel's history would come full circle.
*"I. Renounce you."* And the horror dawns on the Sarafan Raziel's face as he, somehow, recognises who has just killed him. One of the greatest pre-mortem one-liners of all time. Michael Bell was so friggin' good. This scene, the enormous twist that _Raziel is and has always been the Soul Reaver,_ was just the most amazing thing. This was a level of storytelling not found anywhere else in gaming. All these years on, the Legacy of Kain is still untouched.
I don't think Sarafan Raziel knows its a future self that killed him... I think its just shock at being defeated, and by what he viewed as a likely ally of his mortal enemies.
@@NOKIA-vq2dx When they finally come face to face in Janos' retreat, wraith Raziel says nothing. Human Raziel at first looks horrified, as almost every human does when seeing Raziel the first time, because he seems to them more a demon than a vampire. But yes, there is a moment before human Raziel and the Sarafan leave that human Raziel does start to have a look of "something is familiar about this creature". When the two of them meet later and human Raziel is killed, I'm still not convinced he realized who wraith Raziel was.
I also realized that the Soul Reaver vanishes after Kain pulls out it, the developers must have decided that animated Kain holding it would be too much work.
Senorcyborg That's what makes Saraphan Raziel's remark "This is where it ends" so hilarious, xD. He really had no clue what he was talking about, xD. D.R.
Raziel Human fighting style: Stable stance, good positioning to block incoming attacks and strike from a strong position. Raziel Vampire fighting style: Run and Swing blindly!
The combat in this game was complete trash. You were incentivized to avoid it, the game had to literally introduce locked door mechanics to get you to engage.
In story context, Raziel is drunk on his rage and the invigorating power of the complete Soul Reaver. He doesn't need to be defensive when he's constantly being healed. Besides, that emaciated and ravaged body doesn't lend itself well to martial finess.
+Adrian Gofredo Raziel and Inception have got nothing on the Doctor shot by his wife River, in front of his wife River, who then proceeds to try to kill his wife River, while his friend is off to the side, pregnant... with his wife River. Said pregnant friend who will then hunt down an younger version of River, accompanied by Present/Future River... with the Past/Present version of the Doctor. Gives a whole new meaning to "time river", heh? Honestly, Legacy of Kain and Doctor Who must never Crossover. The time vortex, and our brains, couldn't handle that much insanity. There's a reason the Hounds of Tindalos hunt down and eat time travelers in Cthulhu Mythos.
I always liked how Kain sounded when he saw the events of Blood Omen 2 as history reshuffles itself from Kain preventing Raziel's soul from entering the Blood Reaver and turning it into the Soul Reaver there and then after he slaughtered his brothers and himself when they were human and part of the Sarafan. Just how he is when he goes "My God... the Hylden!!", and how he realized what happened just fell into place too well for the vampires' ancient adversaries, even as he tries to warn Raziel to not resurrect Janos so that he couldn't be possessed by the Hylden Lord after Mortanius died at Kain's hands since he had a feeling Raziel would do it to ensure he could learn his true path. It's just well done.
They don't make games like they used to. I miss the Legacy of Kain games, they had good puzzles, some platforming, a deep and interesting story line, fun game play, and awesome characters. I wish todays games would aspire to this. Could you imagine a modern LoK series with improved graphics and sound? Epic.
yeah, i love these games with a passion but the gamplay was far from fun lol. Sure it had pretty original ideas but not so much well executed. I replayed both SR recently and they can be a little tedious sometimes, specially in the combat system and the early 3d plataforming. The puzzles were pretty good in SR 2 tho.
@@Disconnect350 yep, pretty much, Defiance is the most accesible in terms of gameplay (even tho it can feel a little bit repetitive, since both Raziel and Kain had pretty similar movesets)
“History abhors a paradox.” Of all the games I’ve played through all the years, this single line of dialogue has stuck with me. Raziels’ tone and sickly delivery of it always gives me chills. Such an amazing game(s).
So the entire game revolves around Raziel trying to literally become whole with himself again and the story can only have a good ending when he's able to forgive. And the best part about it: forgiveness is the most unlikely thing for a wraith (a vengeance spirit) to do and as equally unlikely as a turning coin landing on its edge. The game is a storytelling masterpiece
The response itself resonates with much of Raziel's internal conflict throughout half of Soul Reaver 1 all the way to the moment he realizes that he was the human to murdered Janos Audron, but what I think is overlooked is how Janos responded to Raziel's statement "Its all true then what Kain and Vorador have told me. I really am some kind of unholy vampire messiah," to which Janos replies "unholy? No. Messiah? Perhaps" and the following line "I don't like that word. It smells of Martyrdom." Not only does this serve as verbal irony in that the Wraith Raziel responding to Human Raziel's backhanded compliment after a journey through time made him realize the Sarafan were not saviors as he thought and seeing his own barbarism in his old life and using his retort as an insult to his former self, but his journey for answers made him realize the only rational people who did not try ordering him about and even offering guidance on some level were the vampires he had loathed so much since his time in the abyss. But the garnish on this delicious exchange was that, on some level, he has accepted his role in these events and the role Janos attributed to him as a redeemer and destroyer- potential messiah who is also described as "more demon than vampire" by Vorador, tacitly admitting to both his status as a human being a SELF-righteous monster and as his status as a wraith and a monstrous hero. "As I backed away from Janos' body, I was overwhelmed by a sense of self-loathing, so deep, I could barely contain it. In that instant, I rejected all that I ever was and embraced the role that Janos had safeguarded so patiently throughout the centuries. I knew then what I had to do. The task for which I was uniquely prepared. I would pursue the Sarafan dogs to their loathsome fortress and avenge Janos' murder. Moebius would pay for dearly for his treachery and my Sarafan brethren would reap the horrors they had sewn. I would retake the stolen reaver, which was rightfully mine. And finally when all these debts had been paid, I would reclaim Janos Audron's heart from their filthy, unworthy hands. If the heart was truly imbued with the power to restore vampiric unlife, its highest purpose was clear to me. I would restore the heart to Janos and undo the crime committed by my abominable, former self." Raziel, whether human or vampiric wraith, did their most noteworthy deeds as self-righteous champions for their respective causes, what they would both claim as their "highest purpose" that both had ultimately negative impacts upon Nosgoth. For killing Janos was a crime and betrayal of his benefactor in the future, and restoring him was a mistake as it led to him being used by the Hylden as an incorruptible vessel. Shortly after both of their consequential interactions with Janos Audron's heart they were destroyed and condemned to be absorbed by the Reaver and returning to the Elder God's dominion. The ouroboros becames more impactful with this knowledge from Defiance, but in this moment his response was the prelude to him denouncing his former identity as a Sarafan priest and embracing the role as the wielder of the Reaver for the sake of the Nosgoth he had come to appreciate from its past. He held this person he once was in such high esteem and then witnessed himself committing evil acts on Moebius' orders. Then dealt with his human self's arrogance- which felt like a mix of Kain's patronizing tone in conjunction with Moebius' cruelty. On the surface the burn seems simple, "apparently [human Raziel is a righteous fiend]" but with everything else that had transpired prior to this exchange, its a fitting response. He recognizes the monster he was as a human, he realizes that he had more humanity in him during his vampiric and definitely his wraith years.
10 лет назад+97
So basically Raziel was the one who killed the serafan, wich Kain later on revives as his allies and sons including Raziel, then he cast Raziel to the Abyss and he takes revenge of his brothers, and confronts Kain, who takes him back to the past and he discovers that Janos Audron the one who forged the Soul Reaver (specially for him), as If he knows the purpose of the blade, the Janos gets killed by the Serafan Raziel and comrades, Raziel takes revenge at them killing them all including himself, and finally the blade was suposed to absorb Raziel ans imprision him inside the blade, wich was going to be the one that Kain will use in the future and again revive those corpses of the serafan, Right?? (That's why it is a badass game, and the story in how it was supposed to end)
StabbiePuppy Dafuq are ye talking about :P Vorador has been a vampire since before he made the blade. And he isn't the first, just the first they converted after the curse. :p
***** Vorador was human when he forged he blade. His wish was to become like Janos and thus was granted his request. You can youtube or wiki Vorador's history.
Never seen voice acting like this before and have not seen it since just so great. Makes the story come alive and adds much more meaning to a meaningful story and game
NEVER NOTICED, but when he says "My history comes full circle" the camera zooms out showing the ouroboros (snake which devours itselfs) on the ground. Thats ... genius.
@@drumcorps0junkie Raziel kills Raziel using Reaver or Blood Reaver (Because Raziel is in the reaver in defiance but in soul reaver 2 there's no in reaver raziel)
From Wikipedia's article on The Legacy of Kain: "In October 2015, Crystal Dynamics' senior designer, Michael Brinker, revealed there was "a 50/50 chance" of a Legacy of Kain 6 single player game coming out during the Xbox One/PlayStation 4 generation." Spread the news, put pressure on the game developers, because there might still be hope.
It would be either a (very) faithful remake or a distant sequel. They tried doing the latter with Dead Sun before realizing it may not be "the right game, at the right time". On the other hand, we've been getting classic remakes on the PS4, which could serve as encouragement for CD to do the same with LoK.
@@zaer-ezart "Now"? Mate! have you read the dialogue between them? Or seen Raziel's black lipstick and guyliner in Soul Reaver 1? There is no way to make them any more gay! :V
Exactly. During the reign of his empire, Kain studied the future and came to the conclusion that even his own death would not have restored Nosgoth, but he did find the ripples of possibility in a future built on the ancient prophecies concerning he-the Scion of Balance, with Raziel playing an instrumental role in helping him fulfill his own destiny. As said in Defiance by Kain: "I am not your enemy." Kain merely had to play the part to push Raziel so that he may meet his potential.
This is what I love about this series. During the first game and halfway the second we got this idea of Raziel being an Sarafan Saint, martyred, used and discarded by Kain. But here we recall what Rahab said in the first fame when Raziel told him that they were Safaran-turned vampires by Kain “He saved us from ourselves “ It almost shocking to what how ruthless, vain and arrogant human Raziel is, makes me wonder how vampire lieutenant should have been, even worse than his human self, even more if we recall he was Kain’s favorite and most powerful of his brothers. They hated him for a reason, if you think of it.
You can feel the sheer disappointment as Raziel realizes what he truly was, a monster in the flesh of a man. His human for was no better than Kain in the end and you can see how much that knowledge pains him. He has to mow admit to himself that Kain was right...he was always right
In Soul Reaver 2, you play as a time-traveling wraith of a vampire of a vampire hunter, who was originally killed by his future self before he became his own sword
SR2 - the reaver Kain picked up in BO1 (and kept through SR1) was the reaver from the original timeline, wherein Raziel's soul was consumed at the end of SR2, leaving the reaver to be claimed by Moebius and distributed to King William, then later discovered by Kain in Avernus Cathedral. When Kain tore it from Raziel's chest in SR2, he changed that timeline, ultimately enabling (after the events of Defiance) BO2 to take place, presumably instead of SR1.
The events on SR1 do not change after SR2's ending. They will always be there, since after Defiance, Raziel entered the blade (here, in this same video, he said he "merely postponed his destiny") became the "ravenous devourer soul inside the Reaver". The beauty of all the changes and time travelling stuff is that they never changed to the breaking point. They overstep critical points but they don't change the core of things. The best example is Kain's role in the whole ordeal: he was destined to be Nosgoth's Balance Guardian, and he did. Nobleman or Vampire, his prime destiny was that, and not one time travel changed that destiny. Same with Raziel; his destiny was to be Nosgoth's saviour, by becoming the Reaver itself. He was always destined to be devoured by himself, and Defiance made sure that SR1 happened, no matter what.
I recently got all the games in the LoK series and played them in order, in one swoop. Best time ever. The story of the series is so damn captivating! I hope they give it a fitting finale. BTW, thanks for uploading all these cutscenes.
Can we talk about how Raziel has every chance to wear pants again, but chooses to not wear anything except on his face? It was in Raziel's personality the whole time to be perfectly happy naked. Raziel is kind of a weird dude when you think about all the stuff he does and does not do.
I know u may not be active anymore, seeing this is a 12 fucking year old fucking post haha. But, if u are, can u solve an issue that I have. The Blood Reaver (BR) becomes the Soul Reaver (SR) when the soul of Raziel is inside of it (Right?) So Raziel has the Wraith Blade(WB) in. He has a "fake" SR during this fight, right? (Wraith Blade + Blood Reaver) Does the Fake SR absorbs him, as he says to complete the circle? If so what happens with the WB when Raziel takes its place? Does it just disappear, or does the SR now has 2 Raziel insides (Character and WD)? If so, then after each time loop, there are more and more "Raziels" in the WB when Kain first breaks it, into him.
@@antoniojerez9096 In the beginning of this scene, he's using just the Blood Reaver - he still has the wraith blade, but it isn't 'active' / hasn't combined with the blood reaver at that point. We see that happen after the fight - the wraith blade "uncoils itself from [him]", in Raziel's words, and "leaves [him" (again, his words). It then turns on him and tries to consume him, and he explains it as he realizes it - the wraith blade is actually his own soul, and the blood reaver becomes the soul reaver when it consumes him. We don't have a great explanation for why that happens, but regardless, the apparent paradox you mention (having more and more Raziels inside the blade) is what causes it to shatter when Kain uses it against him in Soul Reaver 1, as Raziel explains it - it can't consume its own soul (his), and the paradox destroys it. Further, after this scene, Kain stops the Reaver from consuming Raziel, so the Reaver that leaves this scene is just the original Blood Reaver, not the Soul Reaver... Theoretically this should create a paradox, too, as then the soul reaver never exists and even if all other events played out identically, Kain would have killed Raziel with the Blood Reaver in 1500 years, preventing these events from taking place, but the only explanation we get for why that doesn't happen is the timestream adjusting itself to account for the events that we see here - we just never actually see what the effect of those adjustments actually were. Either way, there's never two Raziels in the blade - there's either zero (as in this scene - it's just the blood reaver, and Raziel's soul is inside himself, twice actually, as both the wraith blade and his actual soul), or one (the soul reaver as Kain used it in Blood Omen 1, and had at the start of Soul Reaver 1 until he tried to use it against Raziel).
@@Joudas O may, u are alive and kicking. So I get most of what u saying here, and that the time stream adjusted itself to "correct" those small issues. What is still bugging me is, in other timelines, Kain didn't save Raziel from this fate, so in those timelines, what happens with the WB once the BR became the SR after it absorbed Raziel? In Defiance, we know that the WB basically "sacrifice" itself to cleanse Kain from his corruption and Raziel goes willingly into the BR making it into the SR. But right here, if Kain doesn't intervene, we get a Paradox? Raziel stuck there just sucking his own soul forever as it cants absorb its younger self? Ty for answering, made my day.
@@antoniojerez9096 I guess it comes down to what happens when the Soul Reaver "consumes" a soul. Does that soul actually become part of it, or is it funneled to the Elder God, or is it destroyed utterly, or does it simply return to the wheel and end up in some new creature? I don't think the series ever really explains this. Presumably that's what happens to the duplicated Raziel soul... though Raziel does strait up say that he's the entity "trapped within the Reaver". The series is really vague on a lot of the finer points of how these things function, unfortunately.
jinofthethunder There's a very intricately plotted narrative spread across the games of the series. Sadly, it's still not concluded though. The planned final game in the Series was cancelled early in its development. Maybe someday.
Benjamin Cooper This is my favorite game series of all time. I have a real soul reaver sword replica even & some action figures. I hope they make another Legacy of Kain, but I been waiting over 10 years.
Fitness Gamer they're making a new game set in the same universe. its called nosgoth but from what I gather its a multiplayer only and is only on windows.
Kain's third option/edge of the coin It's how Kain can both refuse the sacrifice and restore Nosgoth. By preventing Raziel from entering the Reaver, he allowed Raziel to pursue his true destiny in Defiance. Raziel gained the Spirit Reaver and used it to heal Kain of Nupraptor's corruption. Presumably, this means the Balance Pillar in the future era of SR has been restored right?
No; the pillars are utter destroy as depicted in defiance. Only its guardian (future kain) was restore. Also restoring the pillars has been supersede with restoring nosgoth by killing the elder God
Kain didn't kill the Elder God, nothing can and that's the point, it used to be the only true immortal, feeding on souls through it's cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Vampires never die therefore he cannot cycle their souls, and that is why he works as hard as he can to destroy Vampires, their existence insults him. In the same sense that the Hyldens refusal to worship him insulted him and he used the Vampires to try to destroy them. As for the pillars, they really don't matter, they had a purpose but it was all to keep the Hylden from returning, for they were seen as the true enemy. But they are not, they are merely embittered opposition, driven lethally vengeful by centuries of spiritual exile. That's why Kain is so important, he can balance all this strife, especially now that he has been cleansed and knows the true face of the Elder God. The Elder God serves, as he himself put it, a 'necessary and noble function' siphoning souls, but the problem was that he egotistically called himself a god and believes it. He is what has caused all of this.
Not true, at the end of Defiance, Kain is shown physically hurting the Elder God, but has to stop as he brings the ceiling/building down, trying to bury Kain, but Kain gets away with the promise to finish it.
I think this section of the game perfectly represents the complexity of this series' time-line. Raziel killed himself with himself so he could be resurrected to eventually kill himself with himself, and cannot be destroyed completely by himself because (head explodes).
I love the discussion about Kain in the comments. The writing for his character is so dynamic, complex, and deep, people are still arguing about whether he is a good or bad guy almost ten years later. I love this series, and it's community. No one is an idiot who just likes it because any character is "hot" or because they sold t-shirts of it at hot topic, but we all genuinely love it for it's writing, characters, AND the game play. Legacy of Kain is my childhood, and I will never forget it.
Thanks for uploading, sorry to hear about they people you've had to deal with. This series is so complex... it was hard enough understanding what was going on as I played the game, now I've forgetten so much of it i'm really struggling. What I love is how much he realises when hes frantically fighting for his life! As well as the amazing script and characters, ofc.
This was one of the most confusing Series in gaming history, if they had just gone by the timeline and not use alternative timelines and other timelines and back when kain was young and how it links to everything else and shit! I JUST CONFUSED MYSELF, NOW I HAVE TO READ THE WIKI AGAIN!!!!!!
But they don't have alternate timelines, all of the LOK games are the same timeline. As Kain himself says 'we haven't changed history, we've merely rewritten it.' So everything that happens, still happens, except for moments with the Reaver, the Reaver is the only thing that can legitimately change anything. It explains William the Just, but we can't claim knowledge of anything else that the Reaver changes because we don't know what was changed. We can assume that Kain was meant to die to the Reaver and Raziel was meant to enter the Reaver, but by altering, (not changing) history, they met their destiny's but also went beyond them. They were no longer the outcomes.
To ease a bit of the confusion, basically remember that anything which happens in the Soul Reaver time line is a closed loop. In other words, there is nothing to stop Raziel's effect on the era of the Serafan (aka the past), happening before he is created (since there is no 'grandfather paradox'). Basically, that stuff just always happened. Raziel affects his own creation, because it was predestined. Basically, Mobeus 'time travel' in the Legacy of Kain series is a farce, since everybody who travels back in time is *supposed* to do so, and has already affected the timeline with their past actions, before they even time travel. The only thing that can actually change history is a full on paradox. The bit that actually changed the time-line of the Soul Reaver series is when Raziel manages to prevent himself from being absorbed into the Reaver at the end of Soul Reaver 2. Oh, and also the bit earlier when Raziel didn't kill Elder Kain at the tomb of King William, hence Kain then being alive to pull the Reaver out of Raziel, in the first example.
@@joshyeldham Not everything is a loop. We were shown different timelines to fill in drama of could be events played by Kain to fight Hylden on meta level. When shaking of paradox happens it creates new alternate timelines and new loops. Kain is looking for one loop where he kills Hylden as Scion of balance then all alternate realities will merge into one. Kain is finding sweet spot which is mentioned as flicker of probability in the game. It is also the reason why this Demon Raziel never remembered that he was killed by Serafan Raziel to be later revived as Vampiric Raziel and then become Demon (after abyss). Because Demon Raziel in video above might have not died (first death) in same fashion (different timeline)
Gizelbelcoot It is a closed loop until exceptional circumstances happen... but that also might be a part of a meta-closed-loop. In other words, everything shifts and wobbles around the Soul Reaver changing timelines, might be *predetermined* to do so. Therefore it might be a part of a giant time line that just shifts lanes. For all intents and purposes, that new timeline acts as a new closed loop. Raziel wouldn't remember killing himself for a number of reasons. 1. I don't think that Sarefan Raziel would recognise his future self at all. 2. Resurrection would probably cause notions of past self to disappear - since Raziel had no idea who he used to be at the start of SR. 3. It is only the future version of Raziel that understands what is going on, because he has enough information... ... however... Even memories of the 'Elder' characters can be re-written to fit in the new timeline. There would be scenarios where only your future self has any context for remembering the past, and that would only be at the point where you understand the loop. You can remember what you did in the past, but you cannot remember what you did to your past self until you've gone and done it.
Ok.. everytime i try to get SR story i end up going to bed at 6 am in the morning with headache. its been yeeeears and i still dont get some parts. i just have one question?. When kain killed vampire raziel, did he really did it because of the jealousy or did he planned all that along so that raziel goes full circle?
Nikola Lozic Kain planned everything from the start. The jealousy thing was just an excuse. He made it look like Raziel had betrayed him just so he could throw him in the soul reaver.
France Hopper Yeah i know. I explained it a little wrong there ^^' But after Raziel's awakening happend he planned Everything that he did after that. Didn't a seer tell Kain what would happen in the future? So when Raziel got his wings Kain then understood that Raziel was the one that she had spoken of? So then he had to change Raziel's fate by throwing him in the souls reaver.
France Hopper I have never played a fan game ever in my life so no i don't play too much fan game's ^^' I have never even hear of that game LOK revival, so i am not mixing between fan games and cannon games stories ^^' But anyway i do not remember where I've heard that Kain met a seer. It was a couple of years ago I heard it and I believe that it either happened in one of the Blood Omen games (But i do not remember Kain talking to any seer in those games ) or so I've read about it in a Legacy of Kain website where you could read about Kain's history, but it is several years since I read about Kain's history on that site so I have no idea what that website was called now. But either way Kain knew what would happen in the future and when Raziel got his wings Kain realized that he was the one in the the prophecy and Kain then decided to change the future. Did you mean this one --> "Soul Reaver - Unused and "Deleted" Dialogue" That's the first version of the game that they chose to change later right? Turel was actually supposed to have been in Roul Reaver 1 but they chose to remove him and use him in a later game. But in this version, the story is quite different than what the real story is that we have today. But was it mobius that told Kain about what would happen in the future?
France Hopper Except Kain did plan everything. His whole intent when he ordered Raziel into the Abyss was a toss of the coin, a single play against a fate that seemed inescapable. Kain was far more informed than you assume. He was outwitted by the Hylden, though, and that's why Blood Omen 2 exists (That's the game where the Seer appears, by the way), but he did know what would come of Raziel's "death" and transformation. That was the whole point of him actually TURNING the Seraphan into Vampires in the first place. D.R.
France Hopper I'll link you Kain's entry in the Legacy of Kain Wiki. Read it very carefully. legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Kain And this is Raziel's entry. Read it with equal care. legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Raziel Revise what you think you know of this franchise, please, and then participate in the discussion. D.R.
Far from it, thanks to this act Raziel puts himself and his brothers to death so Kain can later revive the corpses as their vampire overlords, in time Raziel will be cast down to the Abyss when he will became the ravenous specter you just saw in the video. By doing this Raziel it's actually creating his future self.
The only thing that bothered me about the Soul Reaver series is that the main character, Raziel, is invincible. All it takes to beat any boss is time. You take damage, return the the spirit world, devour some souls, and then..."I'm back, Bitches!"
But that is really no different really than any other game. The only difference is they use save points. In addition, almost every game has easy and very easy settings. I remember several Nes games as a kid that I simply never beat. The original Ninja Turles game (not the arcade remake), Karnov, Adventures of Bayou Billy, Batman, the original Double Dragon (in the last stage the blocks that randomly shoot out from the walls and take away 75% of your life would do me in every time. I beat the machine gun guy once, but in the Nes version, you have to fight Jimmy Lee after the machine gun guy. He was easy, but my health was so low, it just took a couple hits and I was dead.) Ironically, I could beat the arcade with one quarter by spamming the elbow attack. Anyway, my point being that some games back then were brutal and unforgiving and there were some games that some people never ever beat.
Stu Ungar The difference between Soul Reaver and other games is that in a boss fight after Raziel is sufficiently damaged, he returns to the spirit world to regenerate and then reemerges fully healed, while the enemy boss still retains the damage Raziel inflicted. You can do this infinitely. It only takes time to beat them. Yeah, I get what you're saying about a change of pace from the impossible Nintendo games of the past. Looking at your list I realize that I seldom beat any of the games I really enjoyed. Ninja Gaiden I and II (hard as hell), Simon's Quest (programmed to mislead, few clues), Rygar (no save points) and the list goes on and on.
Guv Noir I know the difference. I've played Soul Reaver. Even if you die in the spectral realm, you just go back to the elder god. My point was is that is no different than any other game today. Maybe the method of how they let you beat the game is different. But every game you buy today is beatable because no one is capable of losing anymore, not even video games. That is why you see people spamming or use glitches to get better win/loss records in online games even tho it makes no sense to cheat since the point of online gaming is competing against other players and not a w/l record that no one is ever going to give a shit about.
Raziel story wise is a true immortal cannot die at all. Game wise that's expressed with shifting. Same with Kain the heart of darkness made him like that for most of his vampire existence unless you removed the heart. Even then Kain is protected by fate so he can't die until fate lets him go
i loved how in defiance when you fight as kain and raziel against each other, they made the fight equally unfair as they both displayed powers and strengths while you played as one n the other kinda op and it did it really well. i was shook fighting raziel
My favorite thing about that scene, by far, is how it's just assumed when you're playing as Kain and forced to fight Raziel that Kain will win, then they switch it up on you afterwards - brilliant execution.
Maybe knowing that it's a Hylden trap, he prevents the killing of vorador, since defiance ended when kain refused the sacrifice, and by saving vorador he helped kain from blood omen 2 to fight the sarafan in the quest to conquer meridian, he knew Janos was the key to powering the device that would have allowed the Hylden to opening the demon realm, that's why he says that Janos must stay dead, that's why blood omen 2 even happens, because raziel revived Janos (sorry for replying to such late comment)
googlejse Actually, there was a scenario written into "Defiance" which featured either Kain or Raziel reviving Vorador after his execution. This wold lead to his inclusion in Blood Omen 2. This plot point was cut from "Defiance" but was intended to be in the direct sequel to "Defiance" "The Dark Prophecy". Sadly, that game was cancelled early in its development, due to "disappointing sales figures" on "Defiance". Maybe someday we'll get a game like it, that finally concludes the "Legacy of Kain" narrative. :-)
Arron Litchfield defiance is the prequel to blood omen2, bo2 continues in the same timeline that defiance ended on, we dont know what happens to the original kain tho
BO2 occurs chronologically after Defiance - it is the "end", or as much of one as we're getting. (In BO2, the Hylden Lord is in possession of Janos Audron's body, an event that doesn't happen until the end of Defiance. The game is a sequel to Blood Omen 1, and occurs on the timeline between BO1 and SR1, but Defiance has to have happened for the events in BO2 to be possible.)
This series is outstanding. The concept of Soul Reaver 1 was fun enough, but the transition of revenge to destiny and paradoxes made this game that much greater. It really showed the potential of the series and how far the designers were willing to go to put together an engaging storyline. I also thought it was great how the voice actors effectively told the story in detail as events played out, like Raziel figuring he could not escape the Reaver. Very well put together, sad the series ended.
Dunno what's worse: suffering from a clinical depression that makes me wanna hate and kill myself like I do now, or having a future version of me who frankly hates and wants to kill me.
Best comment section I've read in weeks.... But let us consider some other side of the coin... Human Raziel is a pretty good fighter... Proud of the guy. Badass in how many lifetimes?
@howiescream - They aren't occupying the same space. The same space indicates being in the exact same spot i.e. teleportation fragging. In otherwise; Space/Time is more complicated than being simple as that. You'd be fully capable of going back in time and slap yourself across the face if you so wanted.
![ENDING · This Plot Twist Is WILD · SOUL REAVER 2 Remastered [Part 5]](/img/1.gif)
"You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?"
"Apparently I am."
Human Raziel couldn't begin to comprehend how burnt he got...
Human Raziel: "You mean I just insulted my future self?...uh, oops"
Does he find his human self disgustingly ignorant after what he did to Janos?
like white hot flames
@@jamesroach1180 paradoxical opinions of his former self and his influences as a vampire, effectively two different people at that point. human life 45 years maybe then being a vampire for eons he probably learned to despise humans and hate his formerself
@@jamesroach1180 he also said "i renounce you" meaning to forgive for past thinkings or behaviours so yeah it was discust
"This is where it ends"
*Literally stands on an ouroboros*
I love this writing so much!
Is the first time I see it. Thanks
Spoilers....
Raziel is killing Raziel...using Raziel...this game is deep.
not entirely true, it's the Blood Reaver at the moment but there are indeed 3 Raziel's in one room :O
Slixer
Raziel killing Raziel using Raziel's future house before the third Raziel moved into his house then tries to get first Raziel to move in as well.
Yo dawg . . .
STOP SAYING MY NAME I DID NOT KILL ME AND THEN ME AGAIN AND AGAIN
c'mon they talking about LoK's Razi
"My history comes full circle..."
Just as he says that the camera pans so we can see the ouroboros on the ground...
Im here, there and everywhere.
kultiplexify good eye! stars and black holes. freedom vs oppression. supernova comes for us all
I'd like to think that the golden ouroboros necklace Janos wears and would later give to Raziel in Defiance alludes to that very line.
The necklace unlocks the door (which also has the ouroboros symbol) to the Spirit Forge, where an enlightened Raziel would finally accept his fate and imprison himself in the Reaver _while also_ freeing his future self, the Wraith Blade, from centuries of torment by dispersing it into Kain's soul to purify it-once again, Raziel's history would come full circle.
kultiplexify they’re at the optimal altitude for complete...global...*saturation*!
Michael Bell talking to himself makes for wonderful entertainment.
The voice acting and dialogues were basically the 90% of what made me fall in love with the series
Same the gameplay was OK for me but the story was peak
*"I. Renounce you."* And the horror dawns on the Sarafan Raziel's face as he, somehow, recognises who has just killed him. One of the greatest pre-mortem one-liners of all time. Michael Bell was so friggin' good.
This scene, the enormous twist that _Raziel is and has always been the Soul Reaver,_ was just the most amazing thing. This was a level of storytelling not found anywhere else in gaming. All these years on, the Legacy of Kain is still untouched.
I don't think Sarafan Raziel knows its a future self that killed him... I think its just shock at being defeated, and by what he viewed as a likely ally of his mortal enemies.
@@allenr316 he somehow felt he knows him when they met first time in Janos retreat . the change of times and the voice
@@NOKIA-vq2dx When they finally come face to face in Janos' retreat, wraith Raziel says nothing. Human Raziel at first looks horrified, as almost every human does when seeing Raziel the first time, because he seems to them more a demon than a vampire. But yes, there is a moment before human Raziel and the Sarafan leave that human Raziel does start to have a look of "something is familiar about this creature". When the two of them meet later and human Raziel is killed, I'm still not convinced he realized who wraith Raziel was.
Who doesn't think their past selves are cringe?
Best story in video game history
6:05 The idea that Kain was hiding behind this pillar the whole time waiting to jump out is absolutely hilarious to me. You have been trolled, Raziel.
Hiding behind pillars IS a strangely common occurence in LOK :D
ruclips.net/video/dqByh1NmIII/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/_CUmd-OObDk/видео.html
I also realized that the Soul Reaver vanishes after Kain pulls out it, the developers must have decided that animated Kain holding it would be too much work.
There's an Oroborous on the floor where Raziel meets himself. HOLY SHIT THAT SYMBOLISM.
Well spotted!
Senorcyborg That's what makes Saraphan Raziel's remark "This is where it ends" so hilarious, xD. He really had no clue what he was talking about, xD. D.R.
+Hasfast Well, he was half right. An end IS just another beginning, isn't it?
TymeTwyster Last Yeah, in his arrogant ignorance, he did nail part of the truth, hehehe. D.R.
It would have been funny if Raziel tried to convince Raziel he is Raziel...
“Its absence chilled me more than its presence ever had.”
that shit is just beautiful
Raziel Human fighting style: Stable stance, good positioning to block incoming attacks and strike from a strong position.
Raziel Vampire fighting style: Run and Swing blindly!
well, he is 1/4 vampire by then, which in turn its 1/8 bat(?) seems accurate.
The combat in this game was complete trash. You were incentivized to avoid it, the game had to literally introduce locked door mechanics to get you to engage.
In story context, Raziel is drunk on his rage and the invigorating power of the complete Soul Reaver. He doesn't need to be defensive when he's constantly being healed.
Besides, that emaciated and ravaged body doesn't lend itself well to martial finess.
the end game would have been really hard if raziel wasn't invincible
Inception ain't got shit on Raziel killing Raziel with Raziel. xD hahaha
Adrian Gofredo That is so, man, hahahaha. That is most certainly so. Although Inception had nothing to do with recursiveness, xDDD. D.R.
+Adrian Gofredo
Raziel and Inception have got nothing on the Doctor shot by his wife River, in front of his wife River, who then proceeds to try to kill his wife River, while his friend is off to the side, pregnant... with his wife River. Said pregnant friend who will then hunt down an younger version of River, accompanied by Present/Future River... with the Past/Present version of the Doctor.
Gives a whole new meaning to "time river", heh? Honestly, Legacy of Kain and Doctor Who must never Crossover. The time vortex, and our brains, couldn't handle that much insanity. There's a reason the Hounds of Tindalos hunt down and eat time travelers in Cthulhu Mythos.
Actually I'd debate that, he didn't kill Raziel with Raziel, Raziel was the spirit trapped inside the blade but not the blade itself.
*"It's like poetry... they rhyme"*
He is what makes the blade strong. Raziel didn't kill Raziel with a piece of metal.
I always liked how Kain sounded when he saw the events of Blood Omen 2 as history reshuffles itself from Kain preventing Raziel's soul from entering the Blood Reaver and turning it into the Soul Reaver there and then after he slaughtered his brothers and himself when they were human and part of the Sarafan. Just how he is when he goes "My God... the Hylden!!", and how he realized what happened just fell into place too well for the vampires' ancient adversaries, even as he tries to warn Raziel to not resurrect Janos so that he couldn't be possessed by the Hylden Lord after Mortanius died at Kain's hands since he had a feeling Raziel would do it to ensure he could learn his true path. It's just well done.
They don't make games like they used to. I miss the Legacy of Kain games, they had good puzzles, some platforming, a deep and interesting story line, fun game play, and awesome characters. I wish todays games would aspire to this. Could you imagine a modern LoK series with improved graphics and sound? Epic.
I agree with everything but as far as gameplay goes, only Defiance holds up. Soul Reaver 2's combat is pretty bad.
yeah, i love these games with a passion but the gamplay was far from fun lol. Sure it had pretty original ideas but not so much well executed. I replayed both SR recently and they can be a little tedious sometimes, specially in the combat system and the early 3d plataforming. The puzzles were pretty good in SR 2 tho.
@@Disconnect350 yep, pretty much, Defiance is the most accesible in terms of gameplay (even tho it can feel a little bit repetitive, since both Raziel and Kain had pretty similar movesets)
This gameplay was terrible lol I loved these games too in their time but no
are you trying to have kids die form overloaded brains? you monster.
Amazing story and narration.
+Rafahil Honestly LoK is the most slept on game series imo. The voice casting, the dialogues, the characters... everything is so amazing
kultiplexify I fully agree.
I agree, I really hated the fighting mechanics though
Raziel: You're a righteous fiend aren't you?
Raziel: Apparently I am.
One of the greatest roasts ever
“History abhors a paradox.”
Of all the games I’ve played through all the years, this single line of dialogue has stuck with me. Raziels’ tone and sickly delivery of it always gives me chills. Such an amazing game(s).
So the entire game revolves around Raziel trying to literally become whole with himself again and the story can only have a good ending when he's able to forgive. And the best part about it: forgiveness is the most unlikely thing for a wraith (a vengeance spirit) to do and as equally unlikely as a turning coin landing on its edge. The game is a storytelling masterpiece
I just love how Raziel essentially annoys himself ^^ lol
Also - this right here is the most bad-ass way to commit suicide...
And to add more charm and irony to this scene, this fight is performed over a big Ouroboros. The serpent eating itself from its tail.
"Apparently I am."
I need a goddam dissertation to begin to explain how hot that burn is!!
The response itself resonates with much of Raziel's internal conflict throughout half of Soul Reaver 1 all the way to the moment he realizes that he was the human to murdered Janos Audron, but what I think is overlooked is how Janos responded to Raziel's statement "Its all true then what Kain and Vorador have told me. I really am some kind of unholy vampire messiah," to which Janos replies "unholy? No. Messiah? Perhaps" and the following line "I don't like that word. It smells of Martyrdom."
Not only does this serve as verbal irony in that the Wraith Raziel responding to Human Raziel's backhanded compliment after a journey through time made him realize the Sarafan were not saviors as he thought and seeing his own barbarism in his old life and using his retort as an insult to his former self, but his journey for answers made him realize the only rational people who did not try ordering him about and even offering guidance on some level were the vampires he had loathed so much since his time in the abyss. But the garnish on this delicious exchange was that, on some level, he has accepted his role in these events and the role Janos attributed to him as a redeemer and destroyer- potential messiah who is also described as "more demon than vampire" by Vorador, tacitly admitting to both his status as a human being a SELF-righteous monster and as his status as a wraith and a monstrous hero. "As I backed away from Janos' body, I was overwhelmed by a sense of self-loathing, so deep, I could barely contain it. In that instant, I rejected all that I ever was and embraced the role that Janos had safeguarded so patiently throughout the centuries. I knew then what I had to do. The task for which I was uniquely prepared. I would pursue the Sarafan dogs to their loathsome fortress and avenge Janos' murder. Moebius would pay for dearly for his treachery and my Sarafan brethren would reap the horrors they had sewn. I would retake the stolen reaver, which was rightfully mine. And finally when all these debts had been paid, I would reclaim Janos Audron's heart from their filthy, unworthy hands. If the heart was truly imbued with the power to restore vampiric unlife, its highest purpose was clear to me. I would restore the heart to Janos and undo the crime committed by my abominable, former self." Raziel, whether human or vampiric wraith, did their most noteworthy deeds as self-righteous champions for their respective causes, what they would both claim as their "highest purpose" that both had ultimately negative impacts upon Nosgoth. For killing Janos was a crime and betrayal of his benefactor in the future, and restoring him was a mistake as it led to him being used by the Hylden as an incorruptible vessel. Shortly after both of their consequential interactions with Janos Audron's heart they were destroyed and condemned to be absorbed by the Reaver and returning to the Elder God's dominion.
The ouroboros becames more impactful with this knowledge from Defiance, but in this moment his response was the prelude to him denouncing his former identity as a Sarafan priest and embracing the role as the wielder of the Reaver for the sake of the Nosgoth he had come to appreciate from its past. He held this person he once was in such high esteem and then witnessed himself committing evil acts on Moebius' orders. Then dealt with his human self's arrogance- which felt like a mix of Kain's patronizing tone in conjunction with Moebius' cruelty.
On the surface the burn seems simple, "apparently [human Raziel is a righteous fiend]" but with everything else that had transpired prior to this exchange, its a fitting response. He recognizes the monster he was as a human, he realizes that he had more humanity in him during his vampiric and definitely his wraith years.
So basically Raziel was the one who killed the serafan, wich Kain later on revives as his allies and sons including Raziel, then he cast Raziel to the Abyss and he takes revenge of his brothers, and confronts Kain, who takes him back to the past and he discovers that Janos Audron the one who forged the Soul Reaver (specially for him), as If he knows the purpose of the blade, the Janos gets killed by the Serafan Raziel and comrades, Raziel takes revenge at them killing them all including himself, and finally the blade was suposed to absorb Raziel ans imprision him inside the blade, wich was going to be the one that Kain will use in the future and again revive those corpses of the serafan, Right?? (That's why it is a badass game, and the story in how it was supposed to end)
Vorador forged the blade, not Janos. Janos was just keeping it.
***** Yep and in doing so, Janos passedd his gift onto Vorador, thus creating the very first vampire.
StabbiePuppy
Dafuq are ye talking about :P Vorador has been a vampire since before he made the blade. And he isn't the first, just the first they converted after the curse. :p
***** Vorador was human when he forged he blade. His wish was to become like Janos and thus was granted his request. You can youtube or wiki Vorador's history.
@@IkkinDarkheart He is shown as a vampire forging the blade, not as a human, in one of the murals in Defiance. The wiki is wrong in that detail then.
*”I renounce you.”*
Damn! It was really tragic that Raziel’s truest enemy all along...was himself.
Never seen voice acting like this before and have not seen it since just so great. Makes the story come alive and adds much more meaning to a meaningful story and game
No drama this time, Raziel.
-"You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?"
-"Apparently I am."
NEVER NOTICED, but when he says "My history comes full circle" the camera zooms out showing the ouroboros (snake which devours itselfs) on the ground. Thats ... genius.
Raziel kills Raziel using Raziel.
HCSR2 Ironic lol.
@@drumcorps0junkie Raziel kills Raziel using Reaver or Blood Reaver (Because Raziel is in the reaver in defiance but in soul reaver 2 there's no in reaver raziel)
"Wack.."
Exhibit:SUP DAWG
@@sparta-lf4lv I heard you like Raziel!
From Wikipedia's article on The Legacy of Kain: "In October 2015, Crystal Dynamics' senior designer, Michael Brinker, revealed there was "a 50/50 chance" of a Legacy of Kain 6 single player game coming out during the Xbox One/PlayStation 4 generation." Spread the news, put pressure on the game developers, because there might still be hope.
It would be either a (very) faithful remake or a distant sequel. They tried doing the latter with Dead Sun before realizing it may not be "the right game, at the right time". On the other hand, we've been getting classic remakes on the PS4, which could serve as encouragement for CD to do the same with LoK.
5 years later and still nothing.
@@jonhart4563 Too late buddy, Raziel is now gay and had a secret relationship with kain
@@zaer-ezart "Now"?
Mate! have you read the dialogue between them? Or seen Raziel's black lipstick and guyliner in Soul Reaver 1? There is no way to make them any more gay! :V
Raziel: "You, are not you. You are me."
Raziel: "No shit."
Lmao! Total Recall
😂🤣🤣😂🤣👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👌🏾
Exactly. During the reign of his empire, Kain studied the future and came to the conclusion that even his own death would not have restored Nosgoth, but he did find the ripples of possibility in a future built on the ancient prophecies concerning he-the Scion of Balance, with Raziel playing an instrumental role in helping him fulfill his own destiny.
As said in Defiance by Kain: "I am not your enemy." Kain merely had to play the part to push Raziel so that he may meet his potential.
His voice is so lovely 🥰
My son's voice sounds exactly like SR1/SR2 Raziel's voice.
"No, vampire. This IS where it ends. But YOU won't be leaving this room."
1:21-1:24
"You're a righteous fiend arn't you?"
"Apparently I am."
I love that joke.
I don't get it
@@thekodex1186 Wraith Raziel was talking about how his former Human self is a self-righteous monster lmao.
This is what I love about this series. During the first game and halfway the second we got this idea of Raziel being an Sarafan Saint, martyred, used and discarded by Kain. But here we recall what Rahab said in the first fame when Raziel told him that they were Safaran-turned vampires by Kain
“He saved us from ourselves “
It almost shocking to what how ruthless, vain and arrogant human Raziel is, makes me wonder how vampire lieutenant should have been, even worse than his human self, even more if we recall he was Kain’s favorite and most powerful of his brothers. They hated him for a reason, if you think of it.
“You’re a righteous fiend aren’t you?”
“Apparently I am.”
"I renounce you"
Most. Badass. Quote. Ever.
Raziel killed his former self with his future self
The scream when Kain pulls the Reaver free of raziel is amazing
This game had thee best dialogue and voice acting
They really should make a new Legacy of Kain Game. I'd really like one where you play Raziel as a young vampire, serving Kain.
With modern graphics it would probably be a legend of a game especially if they remade all of the series in one game.
Wishful thinking.
If we're playing as Vampire Raziel would the game be called Blood Omen 3 or Soul Reaver 3?
@@javiersoriano671 legacy of Kain: Prodigal Son
@@derronscott6137 that's a fan made game tho if I remember correctly
Still gives me chills nearly 20 years later.
You can feel the sheer disappointment as Raziel realizes what he truly was, a monster in the flesh of a man. His human for was no better than Kain in the end and you can see how much that knowledge pains him. He has to mow admit to himself that Kain was right...he was always right
"You're a righteous fiend now aren't you?"
"apparently I am."
The irony of these words is inescapable
Notice the Oroborous on the ground?
In Soul Reaver 2, you play as a time-traveling wraith of a vampire of a vampire hunter, who was originally killed by his future self before he became his own sword
8:09 Kain: "My God!" Which god could that be? The Elder god? ...Himself?
the true one God.
@@MrRustyDust Nah I'm pretty sure it was a line to make the dialogue more dramatic probably without much thought, no hate on god though lol
Goodness gracious! The quality of writing and delivery is just outstanding. Such a powerful video game.
SR2 - the reaver Kain picked up in BO1 (and kept through SR1) was the reaver from the original timeline, wherein Raziel's soul was consumed at the end of SR2, leaving the reaver to be claimed by Moebius and distributed to King William, then later discovered by Kain in Avernus Cathedral. When Kain tore it from Raziel's chest in SR2, he changed that timeline, ultimately enabling (after the events of Defiance) BO2 to take place, presumably instead of SR1.
The events on SR1 do not change after SR2's ending. They will always be there, since after Defiance, Raziel entered the blade (here, in this same video, he said he "merely postponed his destiny") became the "ravenous devourer soul inside the Reaver".
The beauty of all the changes and time travelling stuff is that they never changed to the breaking point. They overstep critical points but they don't change the core of things. The best example is Kain's role in the whole ordeal: he was destined to be Nosgoth's Balance Guardian, and he did. Nobleman or Vampire, his prime destiny was that, and not one time travel changed that destiny. Same with Raziel; his destiny was to be Nosgoth's saviour, by becoming the Reaver itself. He was always destined to be devoured by himself, and Defiance made sure that SR1 happened, no matter what.
I recently got all the games in the LoK series and played them in order, in one swoop. Best time ever.
The story of the series is so damn captivating!
I hope they give it a fitting finale.
BTW, thanks for uploading all these cutscenes.
Michael Bell: "You're me, aren't you?"
Michael Bell: "Apparently I am..."
👏
Can we talk about how Raziel has every chance to wear pants again, but chooses to not wear anything except on his face? It was in Raziel's personality the whole time to be perfectly happy naked.
Raziel is kind of a weird dude when you think about all the stuff he does and does not do.
"You're a righteous fiend aren't you?"
"Apparently I am."
Hahaha, cracks me up every time. Talk about subtle comebacks!
I'm curious how Human Raziel hasn't realized Vampire Raziel's Voice is the same as his own.
Fucking brilliant! Still get shivers what a perfect storm of talent actors writers and game lore perfect.
Thanks for uploading this, brought back lots of memories.
That's the Blood Reaver - the sword that turns into the Soul Reaver when it consumes Raziel's soul.
I know u may not be active anymore, seeing this is a 12 fucking year old fucking post haha.
But, if u are, can u solve an issue that I have.
The Blood Reaver (BR) becomes the Soul Reaver (SR) when the soul of Raziel is inside of it (Right?)
So Raziel has the Wraith Blade(WB) in. He has a "fake" SR during this fight, right? (Wraith Blade + Blood Reaver)
Does the Fake SR absorbs him, as he says to complete the circle? If so what happens with the WB when Raziel takes its place? Does it just disappear, or does the SR now has 2 Raziel insides (Character and WD)?
If so, then after each time loop, there are more and more "Raziels" in the WB when Kain first breaks it, into him.
@@antoniojerez9096 In the beginning of this scene, he's using just the Blood Reaver - he still has the wraith blade, but it isn't 'active' / hasn't combined with the blood reaver at that point. We see that happen after the fight - the wraith blade "uncoils itself from [him]", in Raziel's words, and "leaves [him" (again, his words). It then turns on him and tries to consume him, and he explains it as he realizes it - the wraith blade is actually his own soul, and the blood reaver becomes the soul reaver when it consumes him. We don't have a great explanation for why that happens, but regardless, the apparent paradox you mention (having more and more Raziels inside the blade) is what causes it to shatter when Kain uses it against him in Soul Reaver 1, as Raziel explains it - it can't consume its own soul (his), and the paradox destroys it. Further, after this scene, Kain stops the Reaver from consuming Raziel, so the Reaver that leaves this scene is just the original Blood Reaver, not the Soul Reaver...
Theoretically this should create a paradox, too, as then the soul reaver never exists and even if all other events played out identically, Kain would have killed Raziel with the Blood Reaver in 1500 years, preventing these events from taking place, but the only explanation we get for why that doesn't happen is the timestream adjusting itself to account for the events that we see here - we just never actually see what the effect of those adjustments actually were.
Either way, there's never two Raziels in the blade - there's either zero (as in this scene - it's just the blood reaver, and Raziel's soul is inside himself, twice actually, as both the wraith blade and his actual soul), or one (the soul reaver as Kain used it in Blood Omen 1, and had at the start of Soul Reaver 1 until he tried to use it against Raziel).
@@Joudas
O may, u are alive and kicking.
So I get most of what u saying here, and that the time stream adjusted itself to "correct" those small issues.
What is still bugging me is, in other timelines, Kain didn't save Raziel from this fate, so in those timelines, what happens with the WB once the BR became the SR after it absorbed Raziel?
In Defiance, we know that the WB basically "sacrifice" itself to cleanse Kain from his corruption and Raziel goes willingly into the BR making it into the SR.
But right here, if Kain doesn't intervene, we get a Paradox?
Raziel stuck there just sucking his own soul forever as it cants absorb its younger self?
Ty for answering, made my day.
@@antoniojerez9096 I guess it comes down to what happens when the Soul Reaver "consumes" a soul. Does that soul actually become part of it, or is it funneled to the Elder God, or is it destroyed utterly, or does it simply return to the wheel and end up in some new creature? I don't think the series ever really explains this. Presumably that's what happens to the duplicated Raziel soul... though Raziel does strait up say that he's the entity "trapped within the Reaver".
The series is really vague on a lot of the finer points of how these things function, unfortunately.
@@antoniojerez9096 the wraith blade is probably lost to the ether. A shame, seeing as it was the only way to purify the balance guardian.
"I renounce you"
I guess you could argue that's implicit in a lot of suicides, but...
It's disgusting that 2006 was 15 years ago.
"... So we put some Raziels in your Raziel so that you can create paradoxes while you create paradoxes ..." (C) Pimp My Soul Reaver, 2002
I could never understand this games story, but it was always very pretty to listen too lol
jinofthethunder There's a very intricately plotted narrative spread across the games of the series. Sadly, it's still not concluded though. The planned final game in the Series was cancelled early in its development. Maybe someday.
Benjamin Cooper This is my favorite game series of all time. I have a real soul reaver sword replica even & some action figures. I hope they make another Legacy of Kain, but I been waiting over 10 years.
Fitness Gamer they're making a new game set in the same universe. its called nosgoth but from what I gather its a multiplayer only and is only on windows.
jinofthethunder Its a 3rd person MOBA and it is lame.
Fair points.
Ah... my fave line from the games "History abores a paradox"
Thank you so very much for posting this!
Those lines leading up to the end of the video are simply incomparable, aren't they?
Kain's third option/edge of the coin It's how Kain can both refuse the sacrifice and restore Nosgoth. By
preventing Raziel from entering the Reaver, he allowed Raziel to pursue his
true destiny in Defiance. Raziel gained the Spirit Reaver and used it to heal
Kain of Nupraptor's corruption. Presumably, this means the Balance Pillar in
the future era of SR has been restored right?
No; the pillars are utter destroy as depicted in defiance. Only its guardian (future kain) was restore. Also restoring the pillars has been supersede with restoring nosgoth by killing the elder God
Kain didn't kill the Elder God, nothing can and that's the point, it used to be the only true immortal, feeding on souls through it's cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Vampires never die therefore he cannot cycle their souls, and that is why he works as hard as he can to destroy Vampires, their existence insults him. In the same sense that the Hyldens refusal to worship him insulted him and he used the Vampires to try to destroy them.
As for the pillars, they really don't matter, they had a purpose but it was all to keep the Hylden from returning, for they were seen as the true enemy. But they are not, they are merely embittered opposition, driven lethally vengeful by centuries of spiritual exile. That's why Kain is so important, he can balance all this strife, especially now that he has been cleansed and knows the true face of the Elder God. The Elder God serves, as he himself put it, a 'necessary and noble function' siphoning souls, but the problem was that he egotistically called himself a god and believes it. He is what has caused all of this.
Not true, at the end of Defiance, Kain is shown physically hurting the Elder God, but has to stop as he brings the ceiling/building down, trying to bury Kain, but Kain gets away with the promise to finish it.
AluminumHaste its the only game i cant understand the plot..
Styx Hellmouth u got to look at this multiple times to know the plot.
It's not clear; most of the LoK games only had about 7 months of development.
A work of art. Masterful story telling at its finest.
Yea we always hear about bioshock 3 but what about lok and its timey wimey paradox stuff
I think this section of the game perfectly represents the complexity of this series' time-line. Raziel killed himself with himself so he could be resurrected to eventually kill himself with himself, and cannot be destroyed completely by himself because (head explodes).
Red Vs. Blue, gothic edition
Damn, Raziel kicked Raziels ass
I love the discussion about Kain in the comments. The writing for his character is so dynamic, complex, and deep, people are still arguing about whether he is a good or bad guy almost ten years later. I love this series, and it's community. No one is an idiot who just likes it because any character is "hot" or because they sold t-shirts of it at hot topic, but we all genuinely love it for it's writing, characters, AND the game play. Legacy of Kain is my childhood, and I will never forget it.
What a fucking ending!!! Best way to end soul reaver 2, dramatic cliff hanger and and revalation!!! Shit nothing can top this
Amazing how Kain saw/predicted the garbage heap that was Blood Omen 2 before we could even experience it.
@@freebird0147 Actually it was a very bad game and your reaction to someone opinion shows, that you are not to bright.
Blood omen 2 was definitely more grim dark then soul reaver (which I like) but soul reaver had the better story
I can't believe that the guy who does the voice for Raziel is like in his 60's.
And I love how he screams out when Kain pulls the Reaver from Raziel's chest.
⚡🌹
Thanks for uploading, sorry to hear about they people you've had to deal with.
This series is so complex... it was hard enough understanding what was going on as I played the game, now I've forgetten so much of it i'm really struggling.
What I love is how much he realises when hes frantically fighting for his life! As well as the amazing script and characters, ofc.
Still get goosebumps when I see this. Awesome game.
“You won’t be leaving this room”. One way or another, or another Raziel is leaving the room.
This was one of the most confusing Series in gaming history, if they had just gone by the timeline and not use alternative timelines and other timelines and back when kain was young and how it links to everything else and shit! I JUST CONFUSED MYSELF, NOW I HAVE TO READ THE WIKI AGAIN!!!!!!
But they don't have alternate timelines, all of the LOK games are the same timeline. As Kain himself says 'we haven't changed history, we've merely rewritten it.' So everything that happens, still happens, except for moments with the Reaver, the Reaver is the only thing that can legitimately change anything. It explains William the Just, but we can't claim knowledge of anything else that the Reaver changes because we don't know what was changed. We can assume that Kain was meant to die to the Reaver and Raziel was meant to enter the Reaver, but by altering, (not changing) history, they met their destiny's but also went beyond them. They were no longer the outcomes.
To ease a bit of the confusion, basically remember that anything which happens in the Soul Reaver time line is a closed loop. In other words, there is nothing to stop Raziel's effect on the era of the Serafan (aka the past), happening before he is created (since there is no 'grandfather paradox').
Basically, that stuff just always happened. Raziel affects his own creation, because it was predestined. Basically, Mobeus 'time travel' in the Legacy of Kain series is a farce, since everybody who travels back in time is *supposed* to do so, and has already affected the timeline with their past actions, before they even time travel.
The only thing that can actually change history is a full on paradox. The bit that actually changed the time-line of the Soul Reaver series is when Raziel manages to prevent himself from being absorbed into the Reaver at the end of Soul Reaver 2.
Oh, and also the bit earlier when Raziel didn't kill Elder Kain at the tomb of King William, hence Kain then being alive to pull the Reaver out of Raziel, in the first example.
@@joshyeldham Not everything is a loop. We were shown different timelines to fill in drama of could be events played by Kain to fight Hylden on meta level. When shaking of paradox happens it creates new alternate timelines and new loops. Kain is looking for one loop where he kills Hylden as Scion of balance then all alternate realities will merge into one. Kain is finding sweet spot which is mentioned as flicker of probability in the game.
It is also the reason why this Demon Raziel never remembered that he was killed by Serafan Raziel to be later revived as Vampiric Raziel and then become Demon (after abyss). Because Demon Raziel in video above might have not died (first death) in same fashion (different timeline)
Gizelbelcoot It is a closed loop until exceptional circumstances happen... but that also might be a part of a meta-closed-loop.
In other words, everything shifts and wobbles around the Soul Reaver changing timelines, might be *predetermined* to do so. Therefore it might be a part of a giant time line that just shifts lanes. For all intents and purposes, that new timeline acts as a new closed loop.
Raziel wouldn't remember killing himself for a number of reasons. 1. I don't think that Sarefan Raziel would recognise his future self at all. 2. Resurrection would probably cause notions of past self to disappear - since Raziel had no idea who he used to be at the start of SR.
3. It is only the future version of Raziel that understands what is going on, because he has enough information...
... however...
Even memories of the 'Elder' characters can be re-written to fit in the new timeline. There would be scenarios where only your future self has any context for remembering the past, and that would only be at the point where you understand the loop.
You can remember what you did in the past, but you cannot remember what you did to your past self until you've gone and done it.
this game is literally Shakespeare tackling Back to the Future by way of Dracula XD
I cannot believe for the life of me why they did not finish the story of the legacy of kain.
I was satisfied with the ending Defiance provided.
the series is full of great voice acting and memorable quotes
Don't get writing like this anymore.
Raziel: I'M KICKING MY OWN ASS!... DO YOU MIND?!!!
Ok.. everytime i try to get SR story i end up going to bed at 6 am in the morning with headache. its been yeeeears and i still dont get some parts. i just have one question?. When kain killed vampire raziel, did he really did it because of the jealousy or did he planned all that along so that raziel goes full circle?
Nikola Lozic Kain planned everything from the start. The jealousy thing was just an excuse. He made it look like Raziel had betrayed him just so he could throw him in the soul reaver.
France Hopper Yeah i know. I explained it a little wrong there ^^' But after Raziel's awakening happend he planned Everything that he did after that. Didn't a seer tell Kain what would happen in the future? So when Raziel got his wings Kain then understood that Raziel was the one that she had spoken of? So then he had to change Raziel's fate by throwing him in the souls reaver.
France Hopper I have never played a fan game ever in my life so no i don't play too much fan game's ^^' I have never even hear of that game LOK revival, so i am not mixing between fan games and cannon games stories ^^' But anyway i do not remember where I've heard that Kain met a seer. It was a couple of years ago I heard it and I believe that it either happened in one of the Blood Omen games (But i do not remember Kain talking to any seer in those games ) or so I've read about it in a Legacy of Kain website where you could read about Kain's history, but it is several years since I read about Kain's history on that site so I have no idea what that website was called now. But either way Kain knew what would happen in the future and when Raziel got his wings Kain realized that he was the one in the the prophecy and Kain then decided to change the future.
Did you mean this one --> "Soul Reaver - Unused and "Deleted" Dialogue" That's the first version of the game that they chose to change later right? Turel was actually supposed to have been in Roul Reaver 1 but they chose to remove him and use him in a later game. But in this version, the story is quite different than what the real story is that we have today. But was it mobius that told Kain about what would happen in the future?
France Hopper Except Kain did plan everything. His whole intent when he ordered Raziel into the Abyss was a toss of the coin, a single play against a fate that seemed inescapable. Kain was far more informed than you assume. He was outwitted by the Hylden, though, and that's why Blood Omen 2 exists (That's the game where the Seer appears, by the way), but he did know what would come of Raziel's "death" and transformation. That was the whole point of him actually TURNING the Seraphan into Vampires in the first place. D.R.
France Hopper I'll link you Kain's entry in the Legacy of Kain Wiki. Read it very carefully.
legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Kain
And this is Raziel's entry. Read it with equal care.
legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Raziel
Revise what you think you know of this franchise, please, and then participate in the discussion. D.R.
The writing is outstanding.
so is this technaclly suicide?
+Lord dragon Yes, technically, rofl
Wraith Raziel kills sarafan Raziel and reaver Raziel tries to imprison wraith Raziel. WTF XD
Chronocide
Far from it, thanks to this act Raziel puts himself and his brothers to death so Kain can later revive the corpses as their vampire overlords, in time Raziel will be cast down to the Abyss when he will became the ravenous specter you just saw in the video. By doing this Raziel it's actually creating his future self.
If linear logic were applied, then yes x D
Human Raziel: "Your a righteous fiend aren't you?"
Raziel: "Apparently I am"
Priceless moment.
The only thing that bothered me about the Soul Reaver series is that the main character, Raziel, is invincible. All it takes to beat any boss is time. You take damage, return the the spirit world, devour some souls, and then..."I'm back, Bitches!"
But that is really no different really than any other game. The only difference is they use save points. In addition, almost every game has easy and very easy settings.
I remember several Nes games as a kid that I simply never beat. The original Ninja Turles game (not the arcade remake), Karnov, Adventures of Bayou Billy, Batman, the original Double Dragon (in the last stage the blocks that randomly shoot out from the walls and take away 75% of your life would do me in every time. I beat the machine gun guy once, but in the Nes version, you have to fight Jimmy Lee after the machine gun guy. He was easy, but my health was so low, it just took a couple hits and I was dead.) Ironically, I could beat the arcade with one quarter by spamming the elbow attack.
Anyway, my point being that some games back then were brutal and unforgiving and there were some games that some people never ever beat.
Stu Ungar The difference between Soul Reaver and other games is that in a boss fight after Raziel is sufficiently damaged, he returns to the spirit world to regenerate and then reemerges fully healed, while the enemy boss still retains the damage Raziel inflicted. You can do this infinitely. It only takes time to beat them.
Yeah, I get what you're saying about a change of pace from the impossible Nintendo games of the past. Looking at your list I realize that I seldom beat any of the games I really enjoyed. Ninja Gaiden I and II (hard as hell), Simon's Quest (programmed to mislead, few clues), Rygar (no save points) and the list goes on and on.
Guv Noir I know the difference. I've played Soul Reaver. Even if you die in the spectral realm, you just go back to the elder god.
My point was is that is no different than any other game today. Maybe the method of how they let you beat the game is different. But every game you buy today is beatable because no one is capable of losing anymore, not even video games.
That is why you see people spamming or use glitches to get better win/loss records in online games even tho it makes no sense to cheat since the point of online gaming is competing against other players and not a w/l record that no one is ever going to give a shit about.
This more like a puzzle. Since never bothered worrying about game over when you can resurrect yourself.
Raziel story wise is a true immortal cannot die at all. Game wise that's expressed with shifting. Same with Kain the heart of darkness made him like that for most of his vampire existence unless you removed the heart. Even then Kain is protected by fate so he can't die until fate lets him go
i loved how in defiance when you fight as kain and raziel against each other, they made the fight equally unfair as they both displayed powers and strengths while you played as one n the other kinda op and it did it really well. i was shook fighting raziel
My favorite thing about that scene, by far, is how it's just assumed when you're playing as Kain and forced to fight Raziel that Kain will win, then they switch it up on you afterwards - brilliant execution.
Maybe knowing that it's a Hylden trap, he prevents the killing of vorador, since defiance ended when kain refused the sacrifice, and by saving vorador he helped kain from blood omen 2 to fight the sarafan in the quest to conquer meridian, he knew Janos was the key to powering the device that would have allowed the Hylden to opening the demon realm, that's why he says that Janos must stay dead, that's why blood omen 2 even happens, because raziel revived Janos (sorry for replying to such late comment)
googlejse Actually, there was a scenario written into "Defiance" which featured either Kain or Raziel reviving Vorador after his execution. This wold lead to his inclusion in Blood Omen 2. This plot point was cut from "Defiance" but was intended to be in the direct sequel to "Defiance" "The Dark Prophecy". Sadly, that game was cancelled early in its development, due to "disappointing sales figures" on "Defiance". Maybe someday we'll get a game like it, that finally concludes the "Legacy of Kain" narrative. :-)
To be honest that part has always confused me and led me to pretty much disavow BO2. I never understood how Vorador was back from the dead.
Arron Litchfield defiance is the prequel to blood omen2, bo2 continues in the same timeline that defiance ended on, we dont know what happens to the original kain tho
What? BO2 is the sequel to BO1, with the original Kain. Defiance is a sequel that never got another game to complete the story.
BO2 occurs chronologically after Defiance - it is the "end", or as much of one as we're getting. (In BO2, the Hylden Lord is in possession of Janos Audron's body, an event that doesn't happen until the end of Defiance. The game is a sequel to Blood Omen 1, and occurs on the timeline between BO1 and SR1, but Defiance has to have happened for the events in BO2 to be possible.)
So appropriate that all this happens in the middle of an Ouroboros circle
Vean la serpiente que se como asi misma en el suelo, simbolismo brutal.
Ouroboros.
venguiJR17 El juego está plagado de estos símbolos. Es una magnífica obra de arte a más de un nivel. D.R.
This dialogue between dual personalities in different timelines is gloriously brilliant
Human Raziel: You're a pretentious fiend, aren't you?
Raziel:*squints* Apparently I am...
"You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?"
"Apparently I am."
Priceless ^_^
ladies please, youre both beautiful
@Tony73727 I think you're misunderstanding me - it's my opinion that it being live action would fuck it up; it should be animated.
this game is deep as shit...
This series is outstanding. The concept of Soul Reaver 1 was fun enough, but the transition of revenge to destiny and paradoxes made this game that much greater. It really showed the potential of the series and how far the designers were willing to go to put together an engaging storyline. I also thought it was great how the voice actors effectively told the story in detail as events played out, like Raziel figuring he could not escape the Reaver. Very well put together, sad the series ended.
Dunno what's worse: suffering from a clinical depression that makes me wanna hate and kill myself like I do now, or having a future version of me who frankly hates and wants to kill me.
Best comment section I've read in weeks.... But let us consider some other side of the coin... Human Raziel is a pretty good fighter... Proud of the guy. Badass in how many lifetimes?
Just realised younger raziel got the heart which in turn helped to create Kain and Kain created raziel the never ending loop
@howiescream - They aren't occupying the same space. The same space indicates being in the exact same spot i.e. teleportation fragging.
In otherwise; Space/Time is more complicated than being simple as that. You'd be fully capable of going back in time and slap yourself across the face if you so wanted.