Justice Anthony Kennedy's Spotty Legacy on Church State Separation
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Justice Anthony Kennedy's Spotty Legacy on Church State Separation
Hemant Mehta (www.friendlyatheist.com, / hemant , / friendlyatheist )
As you've surely heard by now, Anthony Kennedy is retiring from the Supreme Court. A lot of the discussion has revolved around what this will mean for abortion rights, LGBTQ rights, affirmative action, the death penalty -- basically, all the issues on which the conservative Kennedy sided with liberals in 5-4 decisions.
But because Kennedy was pivotal on a lot of cases involving church/state separation, I wanted to talk about his legacy there. Because it's mixed.
Let's start with the good.
In 1992, he wrote the 5-4 majority opinion in a case called Lee v. Weisman, which said formal prayers at public school graduations were unconstitutional. The reason you don't have an opening prayer at your graduation ceremony is because of him.
In 2000, he was part of a 6-3 majority in a case called Santa Fe School District v. Doe that said prayers over the loudspeakers before high school football games, even if they were student-initiated, were illegal. Kennedy agreed that those prayers were still school-sponsored because it's a school event, you're using school equipment, etc. And by the way, besides Kennedy, only two other justices from that majority remain on the Court.
So that's great! Good on him!
But then there's the other side of the story.
In 1989, in a case called County of Allegheny v. ACLU, there was a question about whether a stand-alone Nativity Scene outside the Allegheny County Courthouse was legal. It was a complicated case for a number of reasons, but the 5-4 majority correctly said the display was illegal. The government was clearly promoting Christianity. Justice Kennedy? He was one of the four who didn't think it was a problem.
In 2005, there were two separate cases involving a Ten Commandments monument on government property. In one case, in Texas, the Commandments were part of a larger display with a lot of other monuments. Taken as a whole, those displays didn't focus on Christianity even if that was kind of the point of the Commandments. Kennedy was part of the 5-4 majority that said that was legal.
The other case, in Kentucky, involved a stand-alone monument outside a courthouse. It didn't matter that it had been there for decades. That was absolutely a promotion of Christianity. And the court said, 5-4, that that was illegal. Yay! But Kennedy was part of the minority that was okay with it. Just like he was okay with the Nativity scene. What the hell.
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it's been a LONG time since I've seen you in my feed. Good to see you again
God spoke to me and told me to go to this channel because a new video was uploaded, not the notification
She works in mysterious ways :-D
John Spike lmao
Even if they tried to pass laws that fuse church and state I will still OPENLY denounce belief the god of the bible and the resurrection of Jesus as well as PUBLICLY refuse to conform to their religious dogma.
the problem to that is if they do that they'll be able to shoot non believers, just look at the Muslim countries.
tundra spirits I own a gun.
we're talking about far right wing nut's here. for every gun you own they own ten. in this situation the smartest thing to do would be to leave the country to a secular one. that's what I plan on doing already. Let's face it, America is being suffocated by the religious. Time to get on a life boat before this ship sinks.
thebatmanover9000 you most certainly have the right to do all of that stuff and I will fight for your right to do so.
BUT, you don’t have the right to impose “your moral law” on anyone else. Ours come from the Judea-Christian ideology, LIKE IT OR NOT, and from which our legal system garnishes it foundation. So if you are saying “It’s wrong for the church” or any ideology derived from historical religious views to govern us, you are invoking a moral law for which there must be a moral law giver-and there is. Where do you think laws against murder, theft, etc come from, hmmm?
Don’t be so quick to denounce the Christian worldview while comfortably and safely living under the nature of its apparent protection. Evolution never made morality, God did.
tundra spirits well it’s about time for some “far right wing nuts” seeing how FAR LEFT WING NUTS passed Jim Crow laws describing negroes as “property, right?
Its beena long time dude......
Atheist seagull is here
Great to see you back
It is beyond lovely to have you back.
Our city counsel decided stop having opening prayers, because a satanist gave a prayer. That ended the whole thing.
Just a thought. Such a clear link between the Government and the Judiciary would be seen as corrupt in North Korea, Russia, Zimbabwe etc?
My college graduation had an opening prayer to the Christian God, and it's a public university
Good to see you again.
Ugh I live in Mississippi and we still do all that crap.
Great videos as always. I would recommend zooming out a bit. I feel the camera is just a little too zoomed in on you. But you do you! :)
My little sisters graduation had an opening prayer led by the principal and another prayer led by the valedictorian then the speech by the valedictorian included a lot of Jesus... Ughh South Carolina ...
I missed this 34 minutes ago.
Nothing can propel itself through a vacuum. Nothing can maneuver in a vacuum.
German Pepe you are delusional in the lies of the devil
One can debunk your BS quite easilly....a feather and a bowling ball in a vaccum chamber fall at the same rate via gravity. In space, once something is set in motion, the lack of air in space pretty much makes it impossible for that object to stop unless it collides with another object like a planet or star, or if it gets caught in another object's gravitational pull to which at that point it will then orbit said object.....This is grade school science you moron.
NUTCASE71733 I'm not talking about falling straight down in a vacuum, I'm talking about flying around in a vacuum, which has never been done because it is IMPOSSIBLE!
Wow. I thought you stopped making videos. Turns out you've been putting them out and they haven't been showing up in my subscriptions feed.
The last sentence made me laugh.
When you're first but don't know what to say...
Just say first if that means anything for you
Just say something smart :)!
Just say ur a Gay Transgender 😂😂😂😂 Loser
but doing so takes a minute or two, how do you think the religious are able to gish gallop?
These pretzels are making me thirsty
😳 I support human and animal rights. Are there any other? I also stand for the separation of the judiciary from political interference. I fail to understand how either partisan or parochial or political meddling in the appointment of any law official is acceptable. Supreme Court judges (and all others) need to remember that they are arbiters of the law as enacted and not agents of any outside person or organisation. Separation of Church and State is a given in a secular society. So it must be for justice and politics. Kind regards from 🇬🇧🐈
This.
Any chance the travel ban was actually a show of force to improve the standing on some negotiations?
NUTCASE71733 why do you think there is a question mark at the end there? Get some reading comprehension
NUTCASE71733 so let's not ask questions because some idiots with various political affiliations could be triggered? Yeah, no! How about you go learn what a civil discussion is and talk to me afterwards
Wow things would change a bit but the truth will still remain still anyways ever since i decided to become an athiest my world view became completely different i begun understanding the world and life in a more satisfying manner.keep up man good work
peter john yea, demons now have you exactly where they want you. Be careful what you get very “satisfied” with.....
pelesky100 when i try to understand the world and life the Bible being my guide i always end up with wrong answers i find lots of confusing passages in the bible if when followed leads not into a better path but when i use logic and life experiences of people before me i get to understand the world and life in more sensible manner.
pelesky100 what do you mean demons anyway
peter john good point. To try to answer both this reply and the following one, I’ll give you this. I’m curious, see if you think I am “deluded”, “religious” or even “fundamentalist”.
Many, uneducated or at least untutored in Holy Scripture try to say these things, “Jesus was a good teacher”, “We should follow His example”, “The Bible is our instruction book for life”, “The Bible can’t be true, it’s old and full of mistakes”....etc.
Here is how I’ve been taught to read it. It’s 66 books, written by 40 men over 1,400 years. It’s literature not “instructions”. It is written for us but not necessarily to us. It is songs, poems, stories, parables, etc, depicting, elucidating and confirming WHO WE ARE and WHO GOD IS. These writings, once understood IN THEIR CONTEXT then provide an understanding of our origins, meaning, morality and our destiny. Seen through this grid(of common sense) we can then make steps to “right the ship” of our lives. If you look at it as your “instruction book”, taking parts out of context it then says, “And Judas went out and hanged himself.........Go and do thou likewise”. Don’t do that!
Further, we humans, Biblically speaking struggle against three things. The “world”(what others tell us), the “flesh”(what our bodies tell us) and the devil or demons(what they tell us). Luke 8:27 tells a story of real evil spirits. The ones you and I face daily. Disregard them at your own peril. I’ve attached a vid from the now deceased Derek Prince. Just the first minutes are invaluable and teach us the nature of what we face.
ruclips.net/video/Gl_3kvkFBPA/видео.html
Justice Kennedy was always the swing justice in the majority of the cases.
I'm in agreement with you, here. Better to have the devil you know.
0:55 Actually the reason for no prayer at graduation is due to five people who voted for the constitution. It wasn't due to Kennedy. There were four others. And they voted pro constitutional rights and pro constitution more times than Kennedy did.
i'd love to hear you comment on a lot of the youtube skeptic movement embracing alt-right and nationalist talking points.
I read your comment several times over, and I can't quite grasp what you're saying or if you're even trying to disagree with me. You don't need to use every type of punctuation in your comments to sound smart. You can focus on just being clear and concise.
"Lets say the IQ differential - yes its real."
A substantial part of the difference between different ethnic groups on IQ tests is because the tests themselves are culturally biased. When using culturally unbiased IQ tests, guess what happens?
Socio-economic factors also account for a large part of the variance in IQ scores. Poor people with limited access to educational resources score lower than rich people with good access to educational resources. If a society, let's say the USA, keeps one ethnic group, let's say black people, locked into being a socio-economic underclass, guess what that does to that group's IQ scores?
Basically, in psychology we are well aware of both the IQ score differentials *and* the reasons for them. You appear to be aware only of the former. Now you also know something about the latter - and it's not because black people are less intelligent than white people. Hopefully you'll take this on board and become _slightly_ less prejudiced as a result.
German Pepe Language is one factor, yes - many IQ tests are developed in one language and then translated. Items in linguistic reasoning which work well in one language might not work well when translated. Even within a language there can be cultural biases. For example, an early IQ test had an 'odd one out' item between four musical instruments, one of which was 'harp'. To most white Americans a harp was a stringed instrument associated with Ireland and angels; to most black Americans a harp was a wind instrument associated with the blues (also known as a harmonica). The test, developed on white college students, took their cultural assumption as the 'right' answer. If you study the literature on IQ testing you'll find many such examples (e.g. order-of-event logic tests which require knowledge of those events).
As for education not having an effect, I'm afraid you are woefully naïve there. For a start, you can practise IQ tests and get better at them, which makes it apparent that they test a learned skill not (just) an innate ability. Furthermore, many of the sub-scales test specific things that are taught in schools. Think back to the IQ test you took. There will have been at least one mathematical reasoning scale, and we teach maths in schools. There will have been at least one verbal reasoning scale, and we teach literacy in schools (indeed, access to books at home accounts for a chunk of the variance in IQ scores and is directly correlated with socio-economic status). There will have been at least one visuo-spatial reasoning scale (e.g. block rotation), which can be improved by having access to real-world equivalents (e.g. construction toys) - which, again, correlates with educational access and socio-economic status. I could go on, but I think my point should be clear enough by now - and this isn't a good forum in which to spend several hours' worth of time giving psychology lectures on the topic.
Bottom line: you need to change your mind if you want your opinions to correspond to reality.
German Pepe okay, here’s why I was confused. My assertion was that many within the skeptic community embrace alt-right and nationalist talking points. You comment saying that my assertion is wrong, but then immediately proceed to, unprovoked, defend alt-right talking points and defend nationalism by attacking what you assume are my political positions. You literally proved my assertion in your attempt to argue against me. That’s my source of confusion...
Wow no wonder my school never got funding they preyed at basically every event
Sorry your school didn't get funded but I find your comment fucking funny xD
Holy shit where the hell you been my friend. Haven't seen you in a long time what up
It is not a good sign when multiple channels each covering entirely different subjects, all do videos explaining why the next supreme justice will be terrible.
Though I am a diehard supporter of the impregnable wall between the Church & State, as like our beloved founder Thomas Jefferson, despite being a diehard Atheist, unlike the majority amongst american Atheists, I am a diehard Gun Rights supporter too, again, just like our beloved founding fathers Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. So I will always favor any diehard Pro-Second Amendment nominee irrespective of his views on any other matter. Personally, being a Libertarian i.e., diehard individualist, the first or in fact the only choice comes to mind is Judge Andrew Napolitano.
No it doesn't, it just means being a part of the society is a free voluntary choice on an individual basis. You can if you want.
The atheists are doing so well on the Internet that I should give up trying to promote atheism myself.
Why is it illegal for a government building to promote a religion? There is a huge difference between force and promote, and this country should never force a religion or have an official religion. Even if I don't agree with a statement of monument, I support free speech.
we gave old people facebook and they gave us trump...
Hey THE ATHEIST VOICE please make a video on disproving about the PARANORMALS for e.g like the CONJURING(which was based on a true story)
I have always wondered about how to deal with music that assumes god is real but it's not Christian music or how to find music that doesn't even mention any sort of god.
I don't hope for stonewalling a new justice. It feels too far-fetched.
Instead, I hope for Trump to "screw it up", for lack of a better term, and put in someone like Kennedy-or better.
It's not ideal but maintaining the status quo would still be better than heading backwards on those important issues.
Hey friend....hope you're doing well...i bleed Dodger blue but go Cubs and/or White Soxs
Cult of Dusty for life
Haha love the conclusion. Crash at his place every few years lool
"Muslim Travel Ban" when the vast majority of the worlds muslims can still come to the US...
Yes, but between 1975 and 2018, exactly zero Americans were killed on US soil by foreign nationals from any of the initial seven countries in Trump's banned list. So if he's trying to keep our country safe, banning people from these Muslim majority countries is not based on any evidence.
he was able to stuff quite a bit of infantile babbling in those few seconds along with saying that.
RM18CPR Oh I think he chose some wrong countries and left others out... Pakistan for example...
see
Global Flood ruclips.net/video/LKUnDW_a7Cg/видео.html
Concerning the Hobby Lobby case: I had no problem with the decision, considering no one is forced to work there and they all had the option to purchase their own insurance covering what HL didn't or just outright buying it themselves. No employer is forced to supply insurance for their workers. The reason for doing it is group plans are cheaper than individual plans and it's an incentive to attract potential employees.
Nut Where is the force? If your employer doesn't offer the medical coverage you like, you are free to buy your own, buy it on your own outright or seek a different employer who will offer it to you.
And refusing to cover certain things because of their religion in no way forces you to accept their religion.
Teachers fired from their jobs by the catholic church for entering into a gay marriage have a case for being forced to follow the rules of the catholic church. The employees of HL do not. They weren't being fired or proselytized over. They were just told certain drugs in a medical plan weren't covered by them.
Who's the idiot here?
"Nut Where is the force?"
If you ask that after you stated you agree with the idea of an employer dictating what an employee can and cannot use their health insurance for, then you are in no position to be questioning me at all. That "question" proves you're just another blind ideologue who wants to have a corporate dictatorship where those with all the money make the rules.
Nut You are misstating the issue. The employer offers a medical coverage. The employee, if it's really important to them, accepts or declines the offer of medical coverage. They were under no obligation to offer the specific coverage you wanted. (a decision confirmed by the Supreme court). In fact, before ACA, they weren't obligated to offer any medical coverage. Also, under ACA, many employers were not obligated to offer any coverage at all. HL was not going to fire you if you got your own coverage for what you wanted or just bought it outright. So, again and validly asked, where is the force? And don't give me rhetoric this time, please explain your reasoning as i've courteously done for you.
As a sidebar, why are employers involved in offering health coverage in the first place? Reread my original comment.
And nobody is forcing the Hobby Lobby owner to have an abortion. So therefore the decision was wrong.
Mark But they were being forced to pay for it. So the decision was right.
I farted. That is all
Just the thought of an Christian country in the USA is scary. Did America forget one of why they originally came to America? Freedom of religion and that applies to atheist who have the freedom not to believe it. Our rights is slowly being taken away. 😞
The wall between God and religion is the important one. On religion side is power and control over someone's mind which is the side I favor when I hear atheist speak. But the God side of the wall is about God loving people who may be interested in getting to know him. The God side of the wall is about God loving the people I may not care for.
I would like to see a video on Hinduism. I find it an interesting topic with all its myths.
Wb
I am an atheist, but I have a lot of questions lately, I understand if you think that I might be a troll but if I request that you could be open minded please could you answer some of topics that bothers me?
David I know u are reading these comments
I wholeheartedly accept and receive Jesus as my eternal lord and saviour. I respect your opinion athesis voice, i don't agree with your stance but you and anyone else has the right to believe what you want to believe. My question for you sir is that what do you or any other athesis believe happens when we die.
I'm with you to a point. I'd rather have a Kennedy who is only half-wrong on the issues as opposed to someone who is entirely wrong. HOWEVER, where I MUST split with you is, we cannot interfere with this process. We had a collective conniption fit when the Republicans blocked Obama from appointing the replacement to Scalia, rightly so. That's the president's DUTY. Now, we SHOULD force him to pick someone sane, and tie up any extremist justice he'd appoint within the procedures allowed, but we can't do what the we condemned the Republicans from doing ourselves and have a clean conscience.
Funk a "clean conscience". Reap what you sow, republicans.
Fuck that. When has "when they go low we go high" EVER worked for us? I say when they go low, we knock the bastards out.
When has "because we're right" ever worked for us? They say the SAME goddamned thing, equally shrill, equally pedantic. And it will ABSOLUTELY bite us in the ass down the line. When you refuse to hold onto your principles, when you abandon them for convenience, you aren't destroying the Trumps of the world, you're becoming them.
"They say the SAME goddamned thing, equally shrill, equally pedantic. "
I don't give a fuck what they say, they are LIARS. They have never gone high in there life.
"And it will ABSOLUTELY bite us in the ass down the line."
Please enlighten me.
"When you refuse to hold onto your principles, when you abandon them for convenience, you aren't destroying the Trumps of the world, you're becoming them."
If preventing a fascist from appointing a judge who will discriminate against minorities makes me equal to Trump, then fuck it, I'll be equal to him. We can't allow them to destroy our country anymore.
Okay, I don't like Trump. He's a buffoon, and being controlled like a puppet. But, honestly, how do you think he won? Yes, he didn't win the popular vote, but there have been several presidents, on both sides, who did the same. He won mostly by ramming our side's hypocrisy right down our throats. Our willingness to attack his side for X, Y, or Z, all while our side did the exact same thing.
As for preventing a fascist from WHATEVER. All fascists are authoritarian, not all authoritarians are fascists. Trump is a corporate capitalist, fascists were not. Even so, the whole, "our side is right therefore ends justify means," is EXACTLY what they are claiming from their side. Becoming a monster to stop a monster still leaves a monster in charge, and you will just be ending the freedoms you are desperate to protect. Look up Pyrrhic Victory.
How can you say that there is no god/creator?
You could try watching his entire video library but I doubt you will because you are clearly an idiot for even asking that question....not believing in god is the only rational path to take because no real evidence has been provided of ANY god's existence let alone the christian god...
NUTCASE71733 is human a part of the creation...yes or no...if yes then obviously the thing that created everything must have lower or higher intelligence than human
But just think about it..humans are capable of questioning such subjects then the source of all creation must be far more intelligent
NUTCASE71733 every planet ,star etc. is a creation since it also dies out after some time( maybe in billions of years) ..therefore there must be something more which is creating galaxies,stars,planets etc.
Ray comforts channel keeps talking crap on you. You should respond and slap some sense into them.
Living Waters is doing videos on you, fucking hilarious.
Old mate here doesn't seem to actually understand the role of the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is not there to deliver rulings which are either politically expedient or politically good. The role of the Court is to interpret the law correctly, and then apply that law to the dispute brought before it by the parties, and resolve that dispute accordingly. None of the criticisms of Kennedy or of any potential candidate featured any analysis of the Constitution itself. It was all a big whinge about how he didn't like the outcome from a political perspective. That's not the Court's job, the Court is there to interpret the law correctly. It cannot say, we don't like the death penalty, therefore we'll outlaw it. The Court is there to find the meaning of the 8th Amendment, and I would add, as according to what it meant at the time it was introduced into the Constitution. The Court often doesn't get rulings right, but the criticism of the law should be based on how the Constitution, or statute in question was misinterpreted, or interpreted using the wrong principles. Don't whinge about the ruling if the text in question was interpreted properly, but the outcome of that was not one you desired for entirely political reasons.
If you don't like the outcome of a ruling, not because the law was wrongly interpreted, but because you didn't politically agree with the result, there are several ways of rectifying this in a Democratic Republic such as the United States. 1.) Get the measure passed in the state legislature if the law in question is within state jurisdiction, or alternatively get Congress to pass it if it is within Congress's authority. 2.) If that is not sufficient, get a ballot initiative in a state to put it in the state Constitution. 3.) If that is not sufficient, then amend the Constitution as per the two alternative methods outlined in Article V. If you want judges to act like politicians, then you should convince them to run for Congress or their respective state legislature, and not sit on the bench.
No, that would be an incorrect guess. the conclusions Hemet came to, namely that these cases were wrong might be the correct answers, but the reasons for coming to these conclusions are wrong. He didn't analyse the law, he only analysed whether he politically agreed with the outcome. I simply made the point that this is the wrong way to go about analysing Supreme Court precedent. The salient point is this, even where a judgement was correct because it employed the correct method of interpretation, using his method of analysis could easily result in the conclusion the decision was wrong based on the outcome. His method of assessing whether a decision is the right decision or wrong decision misunderstands the role of the Court.
I ask Christians what’s your proof and a lot say the Bible I say that the Jews and a lot of other religions have a holy book to does that make there religion true?
By the way APS especially from what I can tell your definitions on right and wrong good and are a little bit screwed up my friend Now woman's rights I do care about because I am a Catholic But LGBT in my opinion that's just a big no no
Oof
👎👎👎👎👎👎🙉
One thing , i've Realized In the Old video ( 9 benifits..202 reasons .. and shit )
You only Compare atheism With Christianity , when you forgot that There is Also islam , and other religions !
I dare you to Find Out what's wrong with islam
I want to know about your education qualification bro.
Sagor ali why? Does it matter?
No it is not matter.I want to know about him.