These Atheist Activists Are Picking the Wrong Battles
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- Опубликовано: 7 янв 2018
- These Atheist Activists Are Picking the Wrong Battles
Hemant Mehta (www.friendlyatheist.com, / hemant , / friendlyatheist )
www.patheos.com/blogs/friendly...
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I've seen a couple examples recently of atheist activists who think they're fighting the good fight and defending church/state separation, but they're really getting it completely wrong.
The first one took place in Oregon over the holidays. In the city of Eugene, an atheist noticed a banner hanging over a street that said in large print "Christmas" and "Jesus," and underneath those words, it said, “Attend a Church of Your Choice” and “Celebrate His Birth.” The atheist told a reporter that he felt like he was "being assaulted" by the banner.
He assumed this was government promotion of religion and threatened to file a lawsuit over it. But here's why he's wrong.
The city allows people to put up those street signs as long as they follow some basic guidelines and pay for the permit. There are three places, in fact, where they can have a sign. Some Christian put up this banner with a religious message, and that's fine, as long an atheist or Muslim or Satanist has the same opportunity. And guess what? They do.
The city doesn't even seem to care what anyone's banner says. One city councilor even said they would permit banners from the KKK, which seems like a horrible idea, but the point is this is an open forum.
If the atheist really wanted to complain about discrimination by the government, what he should've done was try buying his own banner with a pro-atheism message. If it got rejected, then he'd have a case. He didn't do that, and that's why he just came across as a whiner.
The other instance of atheists getting activism wrong took place in Kenya. If you're in high school, there are standardized exams you can take in a variety of classes. If you do well, it'll help you get into a good college. Well, some of those exams in Kenya are optional and they test you on your understanding of Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism. Do you really know what those religions teach?
A group called Atheists in Kenya recently offered a reward for students who performed poorly on those tests. Essentially, if you could show proof that you flunked your religious education exams, they were going to reward a couple of those students with a cash prize worth approximately $100 U.S. dollars.
Here's why that's misguided.
If I were religious, my beliefs would not be threatened by the atheist who fails an exam asking questions about my faith. I would be far more afraid of an atheist who gets a high score on that exam and still proudly proclaims that she believes none of it.
Atheists in Kenya shouldn’t reward the kids who did poorly on those tests. They should reward the kids who scored the highest and who are also willing to publicly proclaim that the entire subject matter is absurd.
We’re atheists not because we’re ignorant about religious beliefs but because we’ve examined them closely.
I don't enjoy picking on atheists who I typically agree with, but in these cases, these people are just handing an easy talking point to religious people who think they're being persecuted.
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As an atheist activist myself, I think it's important to examine and refine our actions every chance we get. Thanks for speaking on this. Bad activism won't get us anywhere.
atheists are so satanically driven now they think they have a place to be. why do u think like dont you think life is live and die?
THIS IS BRAVA what?
Agreed. Occupy Wall Street had plenty of legitimate concerns, but bad activism helped contribute to its downfall.
U can’t prove god is fake
You atheists have debunked nothing. You are also very, very ignorant when it comes to history. That's why the Catholics allow you to push their theories of evolution and the big bang. There is no way you will ever convince anyone those are yours. There is only over 1700 years of proof it belongs to the Catholics.
Then there are TV shows and conventions about extraterrestrials. You know you atheists are supposed to reject those also? That is how badly you guys have failed, little green men that can travel the universe is plausible to the masses. Your belligerent approach will never work. Communism is the ultimate proof atheism can't run the show.
"Those who do not learn from their mistakes, will repeat them." ~George Santayana (an atheist)
Hi there Hemant, I want to use this as a medium to thank you. You're one of the Atheists that helped me get to my state of mental freedom.
Stay safe and stay frosty
Global Flood ruclips.net/video/LKUnDW_a7Cg/видео.html
So thankful to see this being addressed. The atheist community needs to focus more on how to effectively market ourselves to the public. Picking minor battles, even if they're won, are prone to just give us a reputation as petty bullies.
I really like the peaceful way in which you put forth your points and it's so effective. I like the approach. It's sincere.
I really like his approach too simple and to the point very good
I have been waiting so long for you to upload!
This reminds me of what I'm going to do with the scrapbook I found of my Mormon mission. I'm going to show my kids all the good and bad times I had, then conclude to them that I wish I hadn't gone because it was in large, a huge waste of two years.
This is the same reason why I kept my Mormon temple clothes and one set of the undergarments. I know a lot of ex-Mormons who burned theirs in protest, but nothing is as compelling as seeing the truth firsthand in all its weirdness in a neutral setting. I'm keeping them for posterity.
Children of agnostic atheist types had their childhood wasted with useless stuff all based in capitalism...
I totally agree, we become Atheists because we know the facts, not because we ignore them.
Mario Alzaga this is kind of ironic, considering the fact that you’re implying that religion is a “fact.”
It was not my intention to consider the religion is a fact, but the truth as a fact, in this case Atheism been the truth and fact.
Mario Alzaga I know, but the way you worded it made it sound as if that’s what you’re saying XD!
THIS IS BRAVA what facts do you have to support these religious beliefs of yours? After all, the burden of proof is on you, because you’re the one who believes in God.
burden of proof is on me? i dont mind, but arent u the people who live as creator, doer.. while denying creation? are u the people who said life slowly evolved when life cant eixst w/o being complete from the start like bible teaches, arent u the people who said people are born as homo when male has sperm for female... u people are the one who defend what isnt reality, you have to explain
Your the nicest person I’ve seen on RUclips. Thank you.
I get really bitchy diva vibes off this guy.
THIS was a well thought video!!! It is important to examine cases where we need to improve! Well done!
Yay another video. Keep up the content.
2:25 Agreed. “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
Why do you refuse to address the protest in Iran? They want to end the Islamic theocracy and institute a secular government.
I love these vids. Keep up the good work!
Happy new year buddy ;)
Great channel. Thought provoking subjects. Sub’d 👍
Excellent subject. Thank you for addressing this issue.
I love binge-watching your content keep it up 🙌
Very good and tasteful presentation.
I know more about the Bible than most Christians I meet. Reading the Bible is what ultimately lead me to atheism. If I didn't ever read that book and understand the material, I would probably still be walking around calling myself a Christian, like most Christians I know. Atheists should be proud to know more about religion than religious people do. It shows that the only thing you need to prove how wrong religion is is just the religious texts themselves. You're right about that.
And the guy upset about the banner... that would have only made sense if the government put it up, or if like you said the city was only allowing certain religious groups post publicly and not allowing other religious groups or atheists to do the same. Personally, I am not offended by a (non-politician) person telling me I need to be more religious. It opens a conversation. I usually respond with "why?", and then that gives them a chance to say why they think religion (think: their OWN religion) is necessary to be good, and then I can explain why that's silly. Won't necessarily change their mind in that conversation, but it will at least shake them up a bit and hopefully cause them to ask more questions.
It isn't arrogance. There are numerous polls that have been conducted that you can find with a quick google search -- including from religious organizations -- that found that those who knew the most about the Bible were agnostics/atheists (they also compared knowledge between different sects of Christianity). You don't have to take my word for it, though. I am sure there are plenty of ignorant atheists out there (I've seen several on comment threads like these, like you mentioned), but my point is that religious people don't need to listen to atheists babble on about why their religion is flawed; all they have to do is read their own texts.
Also, atheists don't have all the answers. Nobody does. That's sort of the whole point in rejecting religion. Religion claims to have all the answers. I don't believe it is currently possible for anyone to have all the answers, and frankly, I don't believe anyone ever will. Have a nice day.
I agree. Good points. I read about the Kenya atheists rewarding bad exams and it made no sense, glad you have spoken out on the issue.
Really liked the video !!!
Spot on.
Great point!
Interesting thanks for this.
Very well thought out and spoken, how about a video on your opinions on the way a lot of the RUclips skeptic community has headed, armored skeptic, tj Kirk, Jaclyn Glenn. And if the issues with social justice and modern feminism almost become almost like a religion, are as important as tackling organized religion.
tibbarnogard they make those videos because they're more popular. They get support from many of their atheist fans but also a lot of right wingers. I think they're just trying to expand their audience.
Neurofunke I respectfully disagree.
1.
Yes, anti she RUclips’s can be quite disrespectful. But that is because it *entertains* people, which will be popular on an entertainment platform like RUclips.
2.
Yes, some anti sjw you tubers hold similar opinions, but many do not.
3. I have no doubt that there are many reasonable and varied opinions held by third wave feminists. But that is not what makes it onto the news, into articles. The slightly out there stuff is what people see.
4. As for dogma, I see very few anti sjw RUclipsrs who would take their disrespect, slander, and “recking” to the real world, most of them are perfectly reasonable people
5. The shadows we are jumping at are much more subtle than we would have it seem. In my normal life, I barely have to bring any of this up, but when I do, I have to tread very carefully.
Neurofunke Actually. Instead of continuing I’d love to just have a conversation through dm’s. You seem to have a very interesting perspective and I’d love to discuss it further in private, I can give you my instagram if you want further disscusion(through the RUclips dm system of course)
Neurofunke again, if you’d like further discussion, I can give you my Instagram handle, I prefer texting as way of communication to RUclips comments
Neurofunke no problem. Just make one, I don’t like to make unnecessary social media accounts either, but they can come in handy. And if you don’t want to make one, well, I guess that’s the end of our conversation
Hey, I’m a 15 year old athiest in the uk and attending a private school. No one I know has a problem with me being an atheist, but every Easter, Christmas etc. my school still says that atheists should go to the church ceremony - even though Muslims and Jews don’t. Lots of my friends are atheists too (it’s not a big deal in the uk) and I think it’s very unfair that the school disrespects our beliefs or rather disbelief of god. What do I do?
As someone who is interested in Atheism, I have one problem with it and I was hoping someone here could answer it. Does it lead to relativism? I mean there just does not seem to be a set of morals, can we just do whatever we feel is right? That doesn't seem to make sense because people can believe different things. Can anyone help me out with this? Thanks.
Reply
I think there's a big difference between picking the wrong battles and not understanding what you are fighting for
Atheists fight for nothing. You have nothing. You believe nothing. You are nothing.
KOALA T. BEARINGTON most atheist tend to keep to themselves, what you are characterizing is the stereotypical farce that most religious people propagate.
I fight for my right not to have government influence by churches, note I did not say "atheist fight for.." because the conclusion and deconversion of a person is not that simple.
I would also like to add more public atheists tend to argue against bad reasoning which can be frustrating when the religious contradict themselves and refuse to acknowledge said contradiction.
The Truth Channel I really hope you are being hyperbolic because atheist believe all kinds of things, the only difference is we are not convince to a point at which we warrant belief in a proposed god
Gage Boan - You believe in nothing. You clearly dont understand what constitutes a BELIEF. DId you know that BELIEF is a SYNONYM for another word.. FAITH? - Learn something every other month. Dontcha kiddo?
You have NO FAITH. Therefore you have NO BELIEFS.
The Truth Channel I am 22 and I seem to have more decency than you because I rather not patronize others.
Also I'm currently a student in linguistics, so for your own knowledge you should do some research on linguistic relativity and also note that thesaurus are not authorities on word meaning, but to clarify when I'm using the term believe I mean as stated before, the evidence is sufficient to warrant my own trust to think that statement is true.
If an atheist scores poorly on a religious exam, the person was probably fortunate enough to not have been indoctrinated into religion by his/her parents.
Most Atheists were once religiously affiliated, they know the myths surrounding religions. So, it's pointless to literally buy a person from his/her belief instead of letting the person decide independently.
They know about them, you mean?
Its makes me cringe when Atheists get activism wrong, makes us all look bad.
Thank you
In Odin we trust.
Yeah I don't think the Jötnar agree with that.
Anybody know where he went? He hasn't posted in 3 months
Will you please do a video on coming out to your pastor. I don't really know how to do this so would you please give your best advice on how to do this. I am a new convert to atheism from a non - denominational church. I love your videos and I really learn a lot from them. Thank you.
Well said my friend
Flunk a test!? Never! My nerdiness is too strong.
There is this assumption that atheists cannot have dogmatic qualities. I have found the complete opposite is true, although it's certainly not most, but many atheist do hold their atheism in a very dogmatic structured way. I'm sad to see Aron Ra is going down this path, while I greatly admire the man and understand he's frustrated to death of bad arguments. His out spoken atheism is starting to become the equivalent of the religious fire and brimstone sermons. In arguments he stating more claims, but doing less of explaining the evidence and expects the religious to take his word on it. This is what the religious do.
While we are in a cultural battle to change minds for the future of the rationality of this world, there is a right way to do it. If your going to fight for the freedom of thought and religion, then you are completely out of place if your putting yourself out there as someone who is offended by every hint of religiosity.
Freedom of thought doesn't mean everyone else needs to hide so you can feel comfortable. It means that if a Christian can put up billboards then so can Muslims, flat earthers, and atheists or secular humanists. I don't want to see flat earther signs on the road, but its their right.
Our goal shouldn't be to act radical and demand these signs be removed. Our goal should be to do it better and be more outspoken than them and make our message more prominent and impactful so they cannot escape it.
When you act like, dare I say it, the ""stereo typical atheist"" that religious people are expecting, your not helping the situation, all your doing is reinforcing their false pre-conceived beliefs about us.
What subject do you teach
Why no new videos in over 4 months..?
Couldn't agree with you more! 100% Agree!!!!!
This is such a great channel for those ex-religious fanatics to transition back to reality . im an athiest now but i feel like being more proactive about it ever since watching this channel :)
Why do Christians get angry when Atheists put up an Atheist banner or billboard?
Totally agreed
If we die, what will happen next to our soul ?Can you please tell me.
My friend told me about this channel and I love it being an atheist in the Bible Belt stinks. I get picked on and bullied on all the time and I’m in high school I wish people would grow up. Im glad I found your videos they help a lot.
I don’t know about the case in Kenya but I’m assuming that the exam questions don’t encourage critical thinking about religion or point out it’s flaws. Rather, I’m guessing that it makes students repeat religious doctrine. In that case, failing the test means not being indoctrinated.
Am a Ugandan and I want to join atheism. How?Do I need to register?
Good points
Thank god im an athiest
how's the kid?
Good job
I am christian and will never stop being christian but i still respect you
On the topic of the banner, not only is it bad activism but it also appeals to those on the religious side that say stuff like "Christianity is under attack" and "Atheists are taking away our rights!"
How strange... I got a notification video from the channel "Hemant Mehta" which seems to be a reposting channel. Looking up the proper channel, because I haven't seen a video in years, and found I'm unsubscribed. I can't think of any reason I would have unsubscribed though :/ Well, at any rate, I'm back and look forward to some great content!
As an Athiest I hate god so I will deny his calling. As my mother always suspected, it's just me rebelling against my creator.
Couldn't have said it better.
Thank you for your common sense
Christian here, Roman Catholic, I fully agree with these video. As a believer who has a huge interest in philosophy I try to make an effort to listen to the atheist's arguments against my position to understand their point of view and at least grant the possibility that they might be right, and therefore I might be wrong, and because of this, I believe it's fair that they do the same for me.
Atheists being rewarded for having poor knowledge of a religion's belief system and/or theology/philosophy is a celebration of ignorance. They claim to be seekers of truth and advocates of reason, but in reality it is ignorance, what they're encouraging.
I've one doubt can someone clear?
If this was your most recent video, I could've believed that you'd become self-aware.
Greetings!
Introductory Calculus...
How can you read that monstrosity.
How did life come to be? if not created how? Why does it look like the universe was specifically created or designed...not trying to start something or prove anything just looking for an intelligent answer..thanks
I live in Oregon. There are maaaaany signs like that all over Oregon and Washington. Just laugh and be on your merry way. They are a bit comical if you really think about it!
As an atheist i have some doubts about magic. Are they real or just tricks?
I completely agree with the first argument about the sign, however, the obligation to examine religion makes me almost sick to my stomach. It reminds me of the obligation I had to practice religion as a youth. People should be able to live freely and not have any obligation to examine nonsensical elements not required for everyday survival. There are simple questions that one can answer as to the proof of a god in existence that should suffice for one believing or not. Not a careful examination that requires an unnecessary waste of valuable time.
bdgrd4u the exam is optional no one is forcing anyone. You present flase oppression
You talk so much sense. I go to Walt Disney World regularly and guests love to wear their T shirts proclaiming their love for God and Jesus, the only one's I find truly unsavoury are the ones proclaiming how Jesus shed his blood and died for the wearer, especially on small children. I could complain about it, but, why? I'm going to make a T shirt proclaiming my belief in Evolution and science that will be inoffensive, but, clearly showing my Atheism and that's how you do it, not by big gestures that haven't been thought out.
from kenya
I am a theist and I love your videos!
Jedi KMA
Hmm well thats interesting
2 questions about the big bang theory. 1. How can something with infinite mass have a define shape. 2. Where did that matter come from.
I agree that atheist should know what the religious texts of the predominate religion in their region espouse. I have a habit of when someone spouts a quote from the bible I look it up and read the whole chapter to see it context.
We need to vacume the snow with an alien plug and set of anartica before it transforms all to water
Ajit Pai?
Absolutely agreed on both the points. Individual liberty and free speech absolutism should always be our highest priority.
Wednesday Feb 21, 2018.
The day Billy Graham found out there is no god.
I would personally love to see you do a video debunking actual religious claims.
Say one of Ken Ham’s or Eric Hovind’s videos. I would love to see you dissect and destroy one of those.
When ever I hear a person say fighting the good fight I imediatly think of "it's me three dog awuuuu" yeah I know fallout 3 yeah it's old but ever since I played it that's what I think
An animal shelter was being sued for letting a priest in to bless the animals. Another example of needless activism. Unless secularism is threatened, why bother? Good video.
Hey guys, I'm usually quiet and introverted and I don't have many friends, and I don't know if Christianity is right for me, so could someone tell me something to encourage me to keep being a Christian or just convert me to something else. Thank you.
Regardless of what anyone can tell you, genuine belief comes from within. You need to decide for yourself what it is you believe to be true.
I want you to make a video summing up all the videos you ever made and in it you talking without any facial expressions and out focus video angle recording … can you please make it dude ?
Good head on your shoulder. Right on.
Remember when atheist activism was just about promoting church/state separation, science-based reason and skeptical inquiry? Instead of knee-jerk outrage and hyperprogressive bullshit? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
I’m actually taking a philosophy class at my community college called World Religions. I’m non religious and I fully expect to ace this class. 💯 😎
True
Holy crap. An atheist calling out other atheists...? INCONCEIVABLE
Yes they are fighting the good fight!!!!!!
Question: if someone proved the existence of a higher being would you stop making these videos and miss out on the ad revenue or would you pretend it never happened and continue?
We would admit being wrong and accept it as true but i don´t think many atheists would become religious or something if this "being" was the deity of the bible/quran. That being would have alot of explaining to do before it had our respect. But ofcourse i can only talk for myself lol.
We could ask any theist the same.. if another gods existence were to be proven (and it weren´t your god) would you accept it or would you pretend it never happened and kept on believing in your god?
I feel a bit ashamed to be a half Kenyan atheist now.
I dont think you need any religious text to be a better atheist or something of the sort. To better understand a particular religion, yes you do. The god claim is separate from understand religions.
But I do agree with you that, in the age of being offended, a lot of us can lose focus on the real issues.
I'm "atheist" although I don't like labels or designating myself as any belief or non-belief. But my view is...if you don't believe in god or religion....who cares...you don't have to try to dispute it...just let the believers believe...and the non-believers to not believe. That's my philosophy. How do you feel about the word god in the pledge of allegiance or in the military oath? I'm a Veteran and have no issue with it
I’ve been a child advocate for 20 years. Do you want to hear about picking the wrong battles? 😂🤣😂🤣
Please help I have TO go to morrow noooooo !!!
Can you disprove a devil worshipers please ...is there anyway to do that ?
Third? I’d like if we wait to comment after seeing the video
what are your views on pornography?
Request
Please do a video on the errors and wrong messages in Hindu scriptures
Best wishes
Don't think I ever disagreed with anything on this channel before, but kids shouldn't be rewarded for their beliefs or lack thereof.
So your an atheist, right? if a book were to fall from the from the sky would you believe it came out of nowhere? I mean if a planet and other complex organisms came out of nowhere then surely a book can, right?
A book has no reason to form, reproduce and improve.
I said without writing. Also, what are you saying the universe formed for a reason, are you saying someone wanted them to form, I hope you realize if your saying that then your kinda saying there is a God.
The Universe wasn't formed for a reason; the reason formed the Universe. It's only the consequence of an event and not the objective reached by said event.
If that is true then is it so crazy that book could be created.
A book is a very specific objective.
If I ask you to travel around the world and pick a random grain of sand from anywhere you'll go, I'll tell you it is crazy that you chose this particular grain over the hundreds of billions of others grains when you come back. That's considering that bringing this one back was the objective.
The Universe, however, was not an objective. It is one of the results that turned out to come true among the many other that could have been (or have been before).
Does anyone else frequently get assumed to be a Christian? Like coworkers staring at you eating meat on a Friday or crap like that? Maybe it could be an idea for a future video. :)
Thanks for offering: I want to see a video about New Testament versus Old Testament. Christians shirk the badness of the 'Old by claiming Jesus fixed all that. Something about a jot and a tittle? This subject results in a stalemate for me and I don't know how to get beyond this in healthy debate. It could mean he did fulfill the law (what law, Mosaic only?), but it also could mean the bad stuff isn't justified and Jesus didn't fulfill anything like hatred for gays.
Thanks for your videos. I really like your message to engage, with civility.