Hi thank you. I am reviewing to understand what E. Orthodox believe. Very interesting point about God requiring a higher “being” to glorify him. I don’t know - it just seems to be that the father is both without need and need at the same time. Does Jesus and the Holy Spirit have their own will independent of the father ? From the orthodox view ? If through Jesus everything was created in the heavens and earth, what was the will of the father in that process? Can a created being (Jesus and HS) create something from nothing independent from the Father? If they have the same will, why the differential roles? Thanks
Hi, thank you for your question. Just to be clear, because there seems to be some misunderstanding, because although the Son and the H. Spirit are caused by the Father, that doesn't mean they are created. There is difference between caused and the created. The Son and the Holy Spirit are co-eternal and co-equal in their essence to the Father. They only differ in their coming to existence, so like I said, the Father is the uncaused cause, the Son is eternal begotten from the Father and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father. They are not created. Created beings can't be God. And the difference which I mentioned about their existence doesn't effect their essence or nature. Like we can see with Adam, Eve and Seth. All three came to existence on a different way (unborn, proceeded from Adam, and natural birth) but all three share the same essence, namely that of the humankind. Now to answer your question; they all share one will. Namely that of the Father. This is one of the essential points of the Monarchy of the Father. But all three differ in their function. So the Son and the Holy Spirit are in perfect harmony with the will of the Father and do exactly His will. You could say, His will is Their will and they are freely submitted to His will, so in that sense they have their own will. It's something which naturally flows from their essence. Like the sun naturally gives light and heat and it's just happen to take place. The heat and the light are also dependent on the source, but inseparable from each other. I hope this clears up something about your question and I'm here if you have some more
@@orthodoxbasics thank you. So the only difference in the trinity of Protestants and others is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit submit to the will of the father and act in accordance? Thank you for the analogy. I understand Seth, Adam and Eve were begotten differently but I think my challenge is understanding that the nature of humans is one of need (food, company, physical) and God is without need. What does the Son and Holy Spirit add by conducting The Fathers will ?
@@anzajamaa5001 Answer to your 1st question is; eternal and equal glory and love which befits the glory of the Father. Answer to your 2nd question; no there was no time that the Son and the Spirit didn't exist. Like I said they are co-equal and co-eternal. Time as we know it, is a part of creation. So God, the Holy Trinity, isn't effected by time or any other order of creation
Jesus was NOT trinitarian: He was/is NEVER with a THIRD divine person! He was/is ALWAYS ONLY with the Father who is a spirit. God is thus made just by the Father and the Son, you only need to listen to Jesus! In the gospels you have just THREE divine NAMES, NOT PERSONS! They do NOT correspond to three different Persons because 1."God (Father) who is a spirit" and 2. "Holy Spirit" are the SAME ONE spirit. Since you have TWO EQUIVALENT NAMES, the concerned divine Persons are just TWO : Father and Son. No "almighty Helper" exists, it's an invention.
So if the Father is the Holy Spirit, so did Jesus send the Father, who you claim to be the Helper? John 15:25-27 “But when the Helper comes, whom *I* shall *send* to you *from* the Father, *the Spirit* of truth *who proceeds from the Father, "He"* will testify of Me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning." "I" here means Jesus. "From" and *proceeds* means from within the Father. "He" indicates that He (the Spirit) is a personal Spirit i.e. a person, distinct from the Father. And we agree with you, the Father is indeed Spirit and He is Holy, but He isn't the "Holy Spirit" His divine name is "Father". And He sits on His throne in heaven, He doesn't proceed from Himself. The Holy Spirit who is proceeding from the Father interacts with His creation and lives in us, considering we are the temple's of the Holy Spirit, like Paul explains. It isn't the Father who lives in us.
@@orthodoxbasics That Helper (a Saint maybe) has nothing to do with Jesus, he is NEVER WITH JESUS! He cannot thus be a person of the trinity! For example "those who will believe in me through their word so that they all may be one, as you, FATHER, are in ME, and I in YOU. THEY also may be ONE IN US..." 1. FATHER + 2. SON + 3. PEOPLE... can you see a "Helper there? That Helper is NOT ALMIGHTY since he does NOT KNOW the future ("...the Father only knows") That Helper IS HELPED by the Holy Spirit (i.e. by the Father) !!! "He will guide you into all truth because He will NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN, BUT whatever He hears (from the Father)..." He is helped exactly in the SAME WAY AS JESUS is also helped "The words I say to you, I SAY NOT ON MY OWN BUT from the Father..." To recap: that Helper cannot be the Holy Spirit because 1. he is NEVER with Jesus 2. he does not know the future 3. he is helped. The Holy Spirit 1. is ALWAYS with Jesus 2. knows the future 3. is never helped, He helps
@@claudiozanella256 May I ask how did you come to the conclusion that He doesn't know the future? Don't you know that it was a Hebrew custom, that only the father of the groom had the right to reveal the date of the wedding, and by figure of speech, he was the only one who knew the day of the wedding? It isn't for the Son or the Holy Spirit to reveal the Last Hour, not because they don't know, but because it isn't their task. Like it wasn't the task for the Father to incarnate. And can you explain to me why Jesus commands His disciples to go and baptise all nations in the Name (name meaning person, because a force or something like that doesn't have a name) of the Father, the Son *and the Holy Spirit,* if the Father and the Holy Spirit are one and the same? And aren't you familiar with the Monarchy of the Father? The reason that the Son and the H. Spirit don't speak on their own behalf is because they do the will of the Father, who sends them, and His will is their will, because they are one in essence and will and in total harmony with each other.
@@orthodoxbasics " ...no MAN knows, no, not the ANGELS in heaven or the SON, but THE FATHER ONLY KNOWS." Are you familiar with the meaning of the english word "only" ?
Hi thank you. I am reviewing to understand what E. Orthodox believe. Very interesting point about God requiring a higher “being” to glorify him. I don’t know - it just seems to be that the father is both without need and need at the same time. Does Jesus and the Holy Spirit have their own will independent of the father ? From the orthodox view ?
If through Jesus everything was created in the heavens and earth, what was the will of the father in that process? Can a created being (Jesus and HS) create something from nothing independent from the Father? If they have the same will, why the differential roles? Thanks
Hi, thank you for your question. Just to be clear, because there seems to be some misunderstanding, because although the Son and the H. Spirit are caused by the Father, that doesn't mean they are created. There is difference between caused and the created. The Son and the Holy Spirit are co-eternal and co-equal in their essence to the Father. They only differ in their coming to existence, so like I said, the Father is the uncaused cause, the Son is eternal begotten from the Father and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father. They are not created. Created beings can't be God. And the difference which I mentioned about their existence doesn't effect their essence or nature. Like we can see with Adam, Eve and Seth. All three came to existence on a different way (unborn, proceeded from Adam, and natural birth) but all three share the same essence, namely that of the humankind.
Now to answer your question; they all share one will. Namely that of the Father. This is one of the essential points of the Monarchy of the Father. But all three differ in their function. So the Son and the Holy Spirit are in perfect harmony with the will of the Father and do exactly His will. You could say, His will is Their will and they are freely submitted to His will, so in that sense they have their own will. It's something which naturally flows from their essence. Like the sun naturally gives light and heat and it's just happen to take place. The heat and the light are also dependent on the source, but inseparable from each other.
I hope this clears up something about your question and I'm here if you have some more
@@orthodoxbasics thank you. So the only difference in the trinity of Protestants and others is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit submit to the will of the father and act in accordance? Thank you for the analogy. I understand Seth, Adam and Eve were begotten differently but I think my challenge is understanding that the nature of humans is one of need (food, company, physical) and God is without need. What does the Son and Holy Spirit add by conducting The Fathers will ?
@@orthodoxbasics sorry for to add. Was there a time Jesus and the Holy Spirit didn’t exist ?
@@anzajamaa5001 Answer to your 1st question is; eternal and equal glory and love which befits the glory of the Father. Answer to your 2nd question; no there was no time that the Son and the Spirit didn't exist. Like I said they are co-equal and co-eternal.
Time as we know it, is a part of creation. So God, the Holy Trinity, isn't effected by time or any other order of creation
@@orthodoxbasics thank you for answering. May God guide us all.
Jesus was NOT trinitarian: He was/is NEVER with a THIRD divine person! He was/is ALWAYS ONLY with the Father who is a spirit. God is thus made just by the Father and the Son, you only need to listen to Jesus!
In the gospels you have just THREE divine NAMES, NOT PERSONS! They do NOT correspond to three different Persons because 1."God (Father) who is a spirit" and 2. "Holy Spirit" are the SAME ONE spirit. Since you have TWO EQUIVALENT NAMES, the concerned divine Persons are just TWO : Father and Son. No "almighty Helper" exists, it's an invention.
So if the Father is the Holy Spirit, so did Jesus send the Father, who you claim to be the Helper?
John 15:25-27
“But when the Helper comes, whom *I* shall *send* to you *from* the Father, *the Spirit* of truth *who proceeds from the Father, "He"* will testify of Me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning."
"I" here means Jesus. "From" and *proceeds* means from within the Father. "He" indicates that He (the Spirit) is a personal Spirit i.e. a person, distinct from the Father.
And we agree with you, the Father is indeed Spirit and He is Holy, but He isn't the "Holy Spirit" His divine name is "Father". And He sits on His throne in heaven, He doesn't proceed from Himself. The Holy Spirit who is proceeding from the Father interacts with His creation and lives in us, considering we are the temple's of the Holy Spirit, like Paul explains. It isn't the Father who lives in us.
@@orthodoxbasics
That Helper (a Saint maybe) has nothing to do with Jesus, he is NEVER WITH JESUS! He cannot thus be a person of the trinity!
For example "those who will believe in me through their word so that they all may be one, as you, FATHER, are in ME, and I in YOU. THEY also may be ONE IN US..." 1. FATHER + 2. SON + 3. PEOPLE... can you see a "Helper there?
That Helper is NOT ALMIGHTY since he does NOT KNOW the future ("...the Father only knows")
That Helper IS HELPED by the Holy Spirit (i.e. by the Father) !!! "He will guide you into all truth because He will NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN, BUT whatever He hears (from the Father)..." He is helped exactly in the SAME WAY AS JESUS is also helped "The words I say to you, I SAY NOT ON MY OWN BUT from the Father..."
To recap:
that Helper cannot be the Holy Spirit because
1. he is NEVER with Jesus
2. he does not know the future
3. he is helped.
The Holy Spirit
1. is ALWAYS with Jesus
2. knows the future
3. is never helped, He helps
@@claudiozanella256 May I ask how did you come to the conclusion that He doesn't know the future?
Don't you know that it was a Hebrew custom, that only the father of the groom had the right to reveal the date of the wedding, and by figure of speech, he was the only one who knew the day of the wedding? It isn't for the Son or the Holy Spirit to reveal the Last Hour, not because they don't know, but because it isn't their task. Like it wasn't the task for the Father to incarnate.
And can you explain to me why Jesus commands His disciples to go and baptise all nations in the Name (name meaning person, because a force or something like that doesn't have a name) of the Father, the Son *and the Holy Spirit,* if the Father and the Holy Spirit are one and the same?
And aren't you familiar with the Monarchy of the Father? The reason that the Son and the H. Spirit don't speak on their own behalf is because they do the will of the Father, who sends them, and His will is their will, because they are one in essence and will and in total harmony with each other.
@@orthodoxbasics
" ...no MAN knows, no, not the ANGELS in heaven or the SON, but THE FATHER ONLY KNOWS." Are you familiar with the meaning of the english word "only" ?
@@claudiozanella256 I didn't know Jesus spoke English