Was always a Dodge/Plymouth guy when it comes to muscle cars, but Pontiac was always a close second to me. In my opinion the Pontiac 421 Super Duty engine is the baddest engine ever put into ANY muscle car besides the 426 Hemi and maybe the Ford R-code 427. Seen a BONE STOCK 421SD crank out 488 hp on a dyno at I believe 5700 rpm. Just brutal power
The Pontiac 400 Ram Air IV had such a nasty sounding idle for a small block V8. And the 1973-74 455 super duty was a marvel of engineering. The fact that Pontiac was able to get that kind of power out of a V8 in 1973-74 while having to comply with all the EPA regulations and shitty gas at the time was nothing short of incredible. The 455SD was far superior in internal design to any other high performance engine available from GM after 1970 and it isn't even close
Well after watching this documentary I can honestly say that people forget that the Pontiac GTO was nothing more then the Pontiac Tempest. I happened to be the original owner of a Spice red 2006 Pontiac GTO with the optional T56 and 18 inch alloy wheels with all this being said I will never trade or sell my Pontiac GTO will forever be thankful for GM bringing Holden into our shores as the Pontiac GTO. As I write this comment it is August 17 2017 and I currently have 38,000 miles on the odometer of my 2006 Pontiac GTO.
*than* it was a lot more than a tempest. it was a tempest with a 389 tri-power and it directly violated GM edicts regarding large CID engines in mid-sized cars. your goat is a pale imitation, and would not exist without the real one. part of GTO was that it was at first a tempest option package, which is how the whole thing started.
There is nothing...absolutely nothing...wrong with the Holden car. It is a great car. It just doesn't look like a classic GTO. And that's what Pontiac fans wanted. Like Chrysler did with the Challenger and Ford with the Mustang. They actually resemble the classic musclecars. The car you have is a great car and you should be proud to have it. I've been a Pontiac fan since I was a kid. We had a 62 Grand Prix, 389 Tri power, 4 speed, 8 lug wheels and it made me love Pontiacs. And I was disappointed in the new GTO. Not because it wasn't a great performance car, it just didn't look like a classic GTO. But don't let anyone kid you into thinking you don't have a great car my friend...you do.
the gto was just a tempest --- except with the secret sauce of performance in a world where auto makers wouldn't sell you performance without making you buy everything else. If you want 400 horsepower buy out Chrysler letter car or get the hell out of here. Pontiac said here's our big car motor in our small car - go have fun. That was fresh.
F. Flintstone say whatever you want about his gto being a "pale imitation" of the original, but as someone that owned an 04 gto, I guarantee his 06 gto with 400 hp would slap any one of the older models in a drag race
Dream would be a super clean original 1970 GTO with a 455 or a 400 4 speed. Rare air. Near reality is a super clean original 2006 GTO 6.0 Auto (or a 5 speed). Harder to find, plentiful enough. Always aiming for the dream.
No matter how many times I saw the new GTO, I'd come away with the feeling that it looked like a 4-door grocery getter. I'm sure many other people thought so too and that's why it failed. I was almost indistinguishable from the side from other cars at the time no matter what they did to it. That and it was so overpriced that it completely ignored the very market it was aimed at... entry level youth buyers.
Challenger, Mustang and Jeep got the old soul/new car formula right and GTO got it wrong when Pontiac could not afford another mistake. They engineered and designed a nice car but not the GTO people wanted.
I think they saw they could save a boatload of time and especially money by using the Holden car. Already established, had the bugs worked out, and was ready for the showroom floors and salesmen. All they had to do was slap a GTO emblem on them and start counting the money. But it didn't work out. Just a thought.
Chris Nizer Coca-Cola made this mistake with New Coke and Pontiac copied the mistake. The new GTO was a bastard when they needed real GTO dna to save the company .... again ... but got it way wrong. They must have turned down countless right ideas from engineers and designers.
1badhaircut Yeah, I'm sure the engineering dept. turned in plenty of great ideas but there's the problem of how much money you need and how much money you actually have to work with. I don't get the impression that GM in general and Chevrolet in particular were shedding too many tears at the prospect of Pontiac going under. Just my .02 as they say. Semper Fi my friend!
Chris Nizer Pontiac's success was dumb luck --- similar to Mustang - they hit a nerve - like dropping a bomb on ammunition storage . But unlike Ford they never saw that the popularity earliest could never be improved so Ford. always tried to maintain as much of their original as possible --- as has Porsche 911, Jeep - Miata - etc. It's just exec incompetence when accompany doesn't understand its own icon properly.
actually go back pre GTO look at the 61-63 421 catalinas.....full size cars that would smoke a GTO......and the big wigs at GM was always who killed bunkie and deloreons idea.....thats why the gto almost didnt come to be due to weight to horse power rateing....thats why you could only get a lemams tempest with a 326 but j.d. slid around the rules offering the 389 from the full size line in to the lemans tempest model......the GTO was only a option until 66 when it became its own model designated by 242 on the data plate.....so in turn pontiac had been leading the "muscle car wars" for a few yrs before the GTO was born.....
ghm389 you mean the fake one that made more horsepower with a smaller engine than any of the old models did, or the even more powerful 05-06 models that made 400 hp.
@@jrvbamafan1 The 1969 GTO Ram Air IV is nothing to call slow. Neither the 70 Judge 455, either. 2004-2006 were just Holden Maneros imported from Australia. Those aren't muscle cars. Australia doesn't know anything about making a muscle car. Just generic wannabes. America always ruled the car game. We have a car or vehicle for every type of motorsport or terrain. The cars of the 60s-early 70s were way ahead of their time with styling and power. Stock vehicles cranking out 375hp, 450hp and so on and that was decades ago. Vehicles of today are just under-powered and have no feel and distasteful bodywork.
@@CaptainFALKEN where did I call it slow....one thing you are wrong on is the newer gtos. They looked like shit but they had 350hp and 400 hp respectively, and ran low 13s around 108, which is fast enough to run with any of the old ones. I had an 04 and it had more than enough power to show its tailights to most cars back then
It just doesn't look like a GTO. It looks more like a 90's era Grand Am. Which is fine if you're in the market for a Grand Am but not if you're expecting a GTO.
@@CaptainFALKEN That's true, the Holden Monaro was available in Australia and was a good performance car that wouldn't cost nearly as much as developing a brand new automobile from the ground up. But GTO fans were expecting something like what Dodge did with the Challenger and Ford with the Mustang. Those cars resembled the classic musclecars and the GTO ended up looking like a Grand-Am. I doubt that Pontiac had the cash to develop a brand-new model and bringing the Monaro to the U.S. market probably looked like a good idea.
Holden Maneros don't count lmao. Anything with airbags, fiberglass or adjustable seats isn't American muscle And if it's not a big car, it's not a G.T.O
The US was so cool in the 50s and 60s.
Was always a Dodge/Plymouth guy when it comes to muscle cars, but Pontiac was always a close second to me. In my opinion the Pontiac 421 Super Duty engine is the baddest engine ever put into ANY muscle car besides the 426 Hemi and maybe the Ford R-code 427. Seen a BONE STOCK 421SD crank out 488 hp on a dyno at I believe 5700 rpm. Just brutal power
The Pontiac 400 Ram Air IV had such a nasty sounding idle for a small block V8. And the 1973-74 455 super duty was a marvel of engineering. The fact that Pontiac was able to get that kind of power out of a V8 in 1973-74 while having to comply with all the EPA regulations and shitty gas at the time was nothing short of incredible. The 455SD was far superior in internal design to any other high performance engine available from GM after 1970 and it isn't even close
@@jeremythompson9895 Agreed. Long live all the classics, too. I'm mainly about Plymouth, Pontiac, Shelbys, but if it's a classic car, I love it.
@@CaptainFALKEN I'm the same way. Except for a few like Edsels and Corvairs, I like all classic cars
Well after watching this documentary I can honestly say that people forget that the Pontiac GTO was nothing more then the Pontiac Tempest.
I happened to be the original owner of a Spice red 2006 Pontiac GTO with the optional T56 and 18 inch alloy wheels with all this being said I will never trade or sell my Pontiac GTO will forever be thankful for GM bringing Holden into our shores as the Pontiac GTO. As I write this comment it is August 17 2017 and I currently have 38,000 miles on the odometer of my 2006 Pontiac GTO.
No one forgot that.
*than* it was a lot more than a tempest. it was a tempest with a 389 tri-power and it directly violated GM edicts regarding large CID engines in mid-sized cars. your goat is a pale imitation, and would not exist without the real one.
part of GTO was that it was at first a tempest option package, which is how the whole thing started.
There is nothing...absolutely nothing...wrong with the Holden car. It is a great car. It just doesn't look like a classic GTO. And that's what Pontiac fans wanted. Like Chrysler did with the Challenger and Ford with the Mustang. They actually resemble the classic musclecars. The car you have is a great car and you should be proud to have it. I've been a Pontiac fan since I was a kid. We had a 62 Grand Prix, 389 Tri power, 4 speed, 8 lug wheels and it made me love Pontiacs. And I was disappointed in the new GTO. Not because it wasn't a great performance car, it just didn't look like a classic GTO. But don't let anyone kid you into thinking you don't have a great car my friend...you do.
the gto was just a tempest --- except with the secret sauce of performance in a world where auto makers wouldn't sell you performance without making you buy everything else. If you want 400 horsepower buy out Chrysler letter car or get the hell out of here. Pontiac said here's our big car motor in our small car - go have fun. That was fresh.
F. Flintstone say whatever you want about his gto being a "pale imitation" of the original, but as someone that owned an 04 gto, I guarantee his 06 gto with 400 hp would slap any one of the older models in a drag race
the legendary 70 Gto Judge Ram Air iv
It was '69 GTO Ram Air IV, not the Judge
When I was a tike a neighbor up the street had a 55 Pontiac. We had a 55 Rocket 88 Olds. Our car was 10xs cooler.
@ 09:59 Jim meant wider TRACK, not wider tread.
Dream would be a super clean original 1970 GTO with a 455 or a 400 4 speed. Rare air.
Near reality is a super clean original 2006 GTO 6.0 Auto (or a 5 speed). Harder to find, plentiful enough.
Always aiming for the dream.
No matter how many times I saw the new GTO, I'd come away with the feeling that it looked like a 4-door grocery getter. I'm sure many other people thought so too and that's why it failed. I was almost indistinguishable from the side from other cars at the time no matter what they did to it. That and it was so overpriced that it completely ignored the very market it was aimed at... entry level youth buyers.
My favorite GTO's in order are as follows...favorite first. 1968, 1969, 1970, 1965, 1967, 1966, 1971, 1972, 1964, 1974, 1973
1967 for me, it was love at first sight!
67 -68 -69-65 , you can have the rest ..
for me 64,74,69,06,68 and that is it.
67, 68, 70, 64
Challenger, Mustang and Jeep got the old soul/new car formula right and GTO got it wrong when Pontiac could not afford another mistake. They engineered and designed a nice car but not the GTO people wanted.
I think they saw they could save a boatload of time and especially money by using the Holden car. Already established, had the bugs worked out, and was ready for the showroom floors and salesmen. All they had to do was slap a GTO emblem on them and start counting the money. But it didn't work out. Just a thought.
Chris Nizer
Coca-Cola made this mistake with New Coke and Pontiac copied the mistake. The new GTO was a bastard when they needed real GTO dna to save the company .... again ... but got it way wrong. They must have turned down countless right ideas from engineers and designers.
1badhaircut Yeah, I'm sure the engineering dept. turned in plenty of great ideas but there's the problem of how much money you need and how much money you actually have to work with. I don't get the impression that GM in general and Chevrolet in particular were shedding too many tears at the prospect of Pontiac going under. Just my .02 as they say. Semper Fi my friend!
Chris Nizer
Pontiac's success was dumb luck --- similar to Mustang - they hit a nerve - like dropping a bomb on ammunition storage . But unlike Ford they never saw that the popularity earliest could never be improved so Ford. always tried to maintain as much of their original as possible --- as has Porsche 911, Jeep - Miata - etc. It's just exec incompetence when accompany doesn't understand its own icon properly.
actually go back pre GTO look at the 61-63 421 catalinas.....full size cars that would smoke a GTO......and the big wigs at GM was always who killed bunkie and deloreons idea.....thats why the gto almost didnt come to be due to weight to horse power rateing....thats why you could only get a lemams tempest with a 326 but j.d. slid around the rules offering the 389 from the full size line in to the lemans tempest model......the GTO was only a option until 66 when it became its own model designated by 242 on the data plate.....so in turn pontiac had been leading the "muscle car wars" for a few yrs before the GTO was born.....
You could have waited, before bringing up the new fake GTO in 2004...Pffff
ghm389 you mean the fake one that made more horsepower with a smaller engine than any of the old models did, or the even more powerful 05-06 models that made 400 hp.
@@jrvbamafan1 The 1969 GTO Ram Air IV is nothing to call slow. Neither the 70 Judge 455, either. 2004-2006 were just Holden Maneros imported from Australia. Those aren't muscle cars. Australia doesn't know anything about making a muscle car. Just generic wannabes. America always ruled the car game. We have a car or vehicle for every type of motorsport or terrain. The cars of the 60s-early 70s were way ahead of their time with styling and power. Stock vehicles cranking out 375hp, 450hp and so on and that was decades ago. Vehicles of today are just under-powered and have no feel and distasteful bodywork.
@@CaptainFALKEN where did I call it slow....one thing you are wrong on is the newer gtos. They looked like shit but they had 350hp and 400 hp respectively, and ran low 13s around 108, which is fast enough to run with any of the old ones. I had an 04 and it had more than enough power to show its tailights to most cars back then
How could a hotdog ever be priced higher than a hamburger?lol
Man that 2004 GTO is butt ugly!
It just doesn't look like a GTO. It looks more like a 90's era Grand Am. Which is fine if you're in the market for a Grand Am but not if you're expecting a GTO.
@@chrisnizer1885 It's a Holden Manero rebadged as a Pontiac. And the Pontiac G8 GT is actually a Holden Commodore. They're just liw budget cars.
@@CaptainFALKEN That's true, the Holden Monaro was available in Australia and was a good performance car that wouldn't cost nearly as much as developing a brand new automobile from the ground up. But GTO fans were expecting something like what Dodge did with the Challenger and Ford with the Mustang. Those cars resembled the classic musclecars and the GTO ended up looking like a Grand-Am. I doubt that Pontiac had the cash to develop a brand-new model and bringing the Monaro to the U.S. market probably looked like a good idea.
Holden Maneros don't count lmao. Anything with airbags, fiberglass or adjustable seats isn't American muscle
And if it's not a big car, it's not a G.T.O
This is just a rip off of an earlier series of Pontiac videos. Pure plagerism.