Near Mid-Air Collision at Van Nuys | Business Jet and Piper Archer
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2024
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I was the Pilot of N84015.
That day the radar had failed at van nuys and since i was tagged incorrectly they thought i was "44S". On one mile final i had a bad feeling about the controller's unanswered go around calls to "44S" and had the instinct to discontinue the approach and turn westbound. The tower controller was super cool and called me that night to apologize. Van nuys airspace is crazy but the controllers are the best in the industry!
So what was the sequence supposed to be? Were you cleared to land and they just forgot about you since they tagged you wrong? Also it doesn't seem like a radar failure since you can hear the conflict alert sounding off.
Glad you are okay.
Great job, glad everyone is well and unharmed. That had to be one insane experience.
@@Jmjbs Could be a partial failure, like an inability of the radar system to correlate radar tracks to flight plans, hence no callsigns are displayed.
@@Jmjbs i was told to proceed inbound and was waiting on my clearance
Even I need a smoke break after hearing that.
Even you, huh? Are you immune to cigarettes? Let me hand you a cig and a lighter and let’s see what happens. 😂
@@TitaniumTurbine Your entire comment makes zero sense.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
Gotta love that SoCal traffic. Jesus Christopher Columbus, what a gaggle of conflicts there!
Turnleftsoubounjet3rightcledulanclimbtreesounexecjehturneastheadsuptoomanyplanes
LA and SD Class Bs are some of the busiest airspace in the entire country, if not the world. Head on a swivel and Johnny-on-the-spot with calls are absolutely required. People who fly around here VFR not talking nor squawking are insane to me.
And if that isn’t enough work for them, SoCal has “tower enroute control” duties on top of it
That radar screen must have looked like a ball of string that's been sitting in a drawer for years.
The radar feed at VNY was offline that day
Not related to the near mid-air, but initially the tower told 97L to turn left, fly westbound, but a left turn would take them eastbound. The tower later corrected this to be eastbound. The same thing happened to me during my VFR cross country to Van Nuys when I was a student pilot. The tower gave me a turn and direction to fly that conflicted, so I asked for clarification and they corrected the turn instruction. When in doubt, always ask for clarification.
He literally said Westbound, then Eastbound, then *Southbound* twice, then there's a call to 44S to fly Westbound and I don't see that callsign anywhere in the group?
Turn left...and left...and left... *Untill you're facing a westbound direction.*
Bruh.
I had a ship pilot do that to me on the St Lawrence Seaway. Asked for a course adjustment that was 357 deg to port instead of 3 deg starboard. Then he switched to left and right, and later asked me to come left to 1000 instead of 100 🤨
Québécois and not so solid in English...
Today I learned that I'm not a pilot because I would've just followed the instruction. "You want me to do a 270 to go a direction? Okay, weird choice, but I'll do it."
He tells southbound 97L to turn left and fly westbound, then later tells southbound 44S (N84015) the same thing. Should just give them the cardinal direction only if it's that confusing.
As a controller in the SoCal area this is exactly what it is like every day. Just a wild airspace to deal with.
How in the world you come as close as 2 miles from VNY without talking to anyone and think everything is OK?
See pinned comment for more info from N84015 pilot.
ATC had wrong call sign for him.
@@DISOPtvseems like it
The pilot of N84015 just commented on the situation.
@@logicplague2077 Yes that one should be pinned.
By busting the class delta
Anybody else notice the controller getting his left and right mixed up with two different aircraft? Turn left for westbound for 97L (should be eastbound) and turn left fly westbound for 015 (should be a right turn).
ATC seriously seems like the most masochistic job someone could ever want to have
It's not nearly as messy as in this video most of the time
what a circus... I had to watch that like 3 times to understand what was happening. The 44S callsign was confusing.
Yep, for me too. But no 44S or similar was in the vicinity
Yeah I dont understand the 44S and had to watch a couple of times@@VASAviation
@@adonai56 @vasaviation it seems the controller typed in 44S on that aircraft, which would override whatever their Adsb shows on the controllers display. Hence the confusion.
Nothing more exciting than learning to fly out of KVNY. You master that airspace, you can fly just about anywhere!
It's likely that I could master the Chinese language quicker than understanding the KVNY controller. 🇨🇳
At 1:25 is the tower saying he accidentally tagged N84015 as 44S?
I think so. "You were tagged up wrong, sir."
Yeah, the pilot actually just commented a few minutes ago.
I did my flight training in the LA area and it was always so stressful working the radio. Fortunately controllers were always so professional and helpful. Didn't finish due to COVID but want to learn again in the area, some incredible places to fly
I thought van nuys was one of the scariest airports I’ve ever flown into. Business jets mixed with VFR student pilots, hazy conditions, radio calls being stepped on, Burbank traffic going overhead, etc. Those are some excellent controllers.
It might be the busiest or second busiest airport in the country that’s only general aviation, averaging around 820 movements a day.
Van Nuys.. ugh. We fly in there all the time and it’s always a hot mess.
A hot mess to get in and a hot mess to get out lol
Yep
Busiest GA airport in the country, allegedly.
SDL is even worse imho.
Small aircraft pilot gross error brought down Aeromexico in Cerritos in '89 . Saw him to go down from the east bound 91 fwy 1 mile from impact . Headed for friends that lived 1 mile to the north . Bad bad day
What a cluster foxtrot. Holy smokes - it's getting insane out there.
Looks like a case of mistaken identity here and it almost ended in disaster.
Word has it that tower is still talking to 44S
Radar at KVNY is intermittent and having a lot of problems - probably contributed to this
Started training recently around this airspace (Whiteman), and it's brutal down here. I hesitated for a second on the radio and was immediately told to speak up. They do not play around with radio time here.
I walk near this airport several times a week. And seeing all the Southwest aircraft flying to Burbank on approach with general aviation doing pattern work in Van Nuys airspace and then the odd private jet also coming in at the same time it gets hairy over here. Not surprised this happens. Surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Hello. I just came back to the US on United Airlines flight 38 from Haneda to Los Angeles. We had a medical emergency, if you want content... I don't know much about it aside from knowing med services met us at the gate 😅😅😅
routine
This is standard ops in socal. 1997- we had 15 in the pattern at KSNA with airliner after airliner on final for 19R(now 20R)
I'm in KVNY about 4 times a month...you must keep your eyes peeled for flight school and very nervous/lost VFR Bugsmasher traffic out there...
And Harrison Ford. Don't forget Harrison Ford.
@@easternpa2 Yeah have to look out for traffic landing on taxi ways with him.
Bugsmasher? Not a pilot so I'm unfamiliar with that colloquialism. Sounds fun, though.
@@7CharlesV Basically anything that flies low down where the bugs are, which is basically all piston aircraft. Sometimes turboprops will also be called bugsmashers by jet pilots.
@@MarkRose1337 Ha, that's funny. There's always a pecking order in just about any field, isn't there?
VNY has been suffering from random and sudden radar outages the past few weeks. Now seems to be resolved. When the Radar glitches, the data blocks jump, lag and do bad things, and eventually goes out completely. This throws the already busy tower into emergency procedures. Anyone who has flown into VNY knows it can be chaotic on an average day between lots of GA and flight school planes in the pattern, transitions all 4 directions, sitting below the charlie shelf of Burbank and directly below the approach to BUR runway 8, on top of a masive amount of jet traffic in and out.
When you learn to fly at Van Nuys, you are prepared for just about any airspace out there. Except into uncontrolled airports 🤣🤣
SNAP. There was tension in that tower. Of course, we don’t know how close the aircraft were - but everyone sounded like they were on top of the situation. We certainly didn’t hear about this on the local news.
What a busy mess!! Too many planes!
I'm not a pilot or controller, but looking at the radar images and listening to the voices was enough to grasp the severity of the situation.😅
Many of these incidents would be, if not avoided, made a lot simpler if the controllers would say "090" or "270" rather than "eastbound" and "westbound". It's quite clear here that at least one of the parties involved doesn't know which is which.
You can't put VFR aircraft that are not radar identified on radar vectors. They would have to give them a squawk and radar ID them first, which is pointless for 99% of the traffic that's just coming in to do touch n goes, etc.
I was thinking the confusion was with the "left turn" that should have been "right turn". A very busy time with so much information/instruction to be given to multiple planes.
@@davidhandyman7571Really they should have given left turn to each aircraft. That would convert 2 collision airceaft into 2 departing aircraft. Part of the issue was the one pilot saw the traffic close to them and didn't initial understand that the conflict was inbound beyond them. Immediate left turn to me would be "immediate left and don't hit the one you see."
00:28* "There's ANOTHER traffic out there" not "NOT"
Flexjet 651 likely blew through the altitude restriction published on the ILS Z 16R, below 1750 until 1.5 south of VNY. Poor silver speed…
That all looked *real* close!
Looked like there were several conflicts in there.
Well, the rest are VFR flights so no problem. They all were receiving traffic information
@@VASAviation It may not have been an ATC responsibility. But so many traffic all turning, climbing, descending is far from "no problem"....
Trained and got my PPL out of VNY. Never a dull moment
I picked the wrong day to quit smoking
LXJ651 is a Gulfstream G650 .. as in Van Nuys last Friday Mar 22 2024.
A G650 and an archer?
That’s a bird strike for the 650.
Good job ATC. : )
ATC is what caused this mess, what do you mean "good job ATC" lol
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroméxico_Flight_498
@@sakumisan ill look at it again. They righted their wrong. We’re all not perfect, and they were able to fix it before it became a deadly situation.
1) Good on 97L for verifying what ATC wanted.
2) ATC mistakenly tagging 015 as 44S would usually be a minor inconvenience, but the timing seems particularly unfortunate. At least, reading the pinned comment and listening to the video, ATC recognized the error and took responsibility for it.
3)015 breaking off of the approach shows excellent situational awareness and airmanship. Well done, sir.
4) with the exception of the mixed instructions for 97L, ATC definitely appeared to be on the ball with deconfliction once they recognized it.
5) the vertical separation between 304 and 015 seems a little close for my comfort (only 300’)
A little more exciting that usual at Van Nuys. Nice work keeping away from each other. How is that Archer not talking to anyone?
What a cluster-
If I walked into that, I'd be like 'nope, going somewhere else' 😅
I fly a Global Express on a regular basis in and out of KVNY. So far, no issues.
The ATC messed up the direction a few times. Turn left, fly westbound when the aircraft is flying southbound?
Why was the Silverspeed 55 going into Burbank (according to Flightaware and the ground track) on this audio? Was VNY tower really talking to them?! Or is this audio feed both burbank and VNY combined in the same recording for some reason?
Yes, I included the audio from Burbank Approach. Unfortunately only SIS55 was heard
Would the aircraft be too close to the airport for TCAS to work?
Don't think a phone call is needed. Probably a stool and a dunce cap.
Great controller
Especially that this is just his part time job. He usually works as an auctioneer selling cattle..
What was the date of this event?
That’s only a bit more hectic than normal for VNY. Almost standard.
Crazy...
Controller meant to tell 40P to turn left and go West, but instead he said it to 97L. Left was East for them, not West. That confused the hell out of everybody. How did he let those 3 aircraft merge? Just focusing on airliners? No way I’d fly in that soup. P28s look unruly.
The great LA area has the densest GA traffic in the world.
confused, so many voices, call signs, instructions, errors ... I just hope none were in my head alone and that everyone could hear them. Glad no one got hurt physically but some might need emotional/audio trauma therapy.
It's a really busy airspace
He picked a helluva day to stop sniffing glue. I'll see myself out.
Did the controller let himself get behind by not being proactive? Should he have set up more incomings for holding and then bring them in one at a time?
You don't need holding over there...but spacing...that and adhering to vectors and airspeeds...
When was this? And what time?
I sprouted a few more gray hairs just watching this video…. I do not envy the controllers here!
Like herding cats...
Herding drunk cats
I'm from Texas, I don't hear that fast.
Note to self: Never become an air traffic controller!
I'm not a Pilot but after hearing this I'll never ever turn left or right
N55304 and N84015 looked like a near miss at the start.
I can't understand half of what this controller is saying. This isn’t an environment where a controller can afford to slur words, either.
That was a hot mess, but he wasn't slurring. I've heard far worse.
@@andysPARKI wouldn't have understood a word at 0:50, he sounded like an auctioneer.
I guess he had to talk this fast because he is required to give traffic alerts but he also, at the same time, needed to tell the other plane to fly westbound.@@softy8088
I am a former Tracon Controller at D10 DFW….this was FREAKING NIGHTMARE.
I cannot se a 44S on this screen, what am I missing?
Controller was using the wrong callsign.
@@jamesphillips2285 Yes, of course! That did not occur to me, thankyou!
Can a controller really get away with that kind of shenanigans? There has been MAJOR accidents from that typ behaviour!
@@user-yi3yx2fn7g I’m not sure that I’m aware of any major accidents caused by ATC using the incorrect call sign or similar… “behavior”. Also, it’s not “getting away with it”, this was clearly an error and not malicious, but that of which we do not have the full information on what occurred on ATC’s end. We need to relax and absorb before pointing fingers.
@@TitaniumTurbine Garuda Indonesia 152
N1640P sounds like the same pilot who had the cabin door open after departing SFO a few years ago.
Thank you for another very stressful video! All the best from Sydney Australia 🇦🇺
I have no idea what the hell just happened but it didn’t sound good
Was 44S offscreen?
Not a 4SS in the vicinity. He was for some reason calling 84015 as 44S.
How did it get this bad so fast?
Just another day at kvny
Too many near miss mid air Incidents.Just 3 days Ago A Boeing 737Max operated by Ethiopian nearly collided with Emirates Boeing 777 over Somalia airspace.
Now imagine if everyone had flying cars. Traffic will be a nightmare.
Someone was out at Walmart buying Fruit of the Loom underwear that evening.
Sounds more like this was out of control.!
Jesus, and I think about flying in there to visit my folks. That is just nutty.
was it N 1640 P fault ? confused .....
No, 40P was just leaving to the north
Happens, but it’s rare.
Is the controller auditioning for an Eminem impersonation contest?
Why be a rap king, when you can be a rap God?
what a CLUSTER ****
I am not a pilot. I do not ever recall hearing ATC controllers using southbound and westbound in ATC videos. Is this odd?
Not really. This is a tower controller not approach. This is copy paste from another comment - kevinbatz. He explains it well.
"Van Nuys is a Class D airport that underlies the Burbank Class C airspace. The controllers likely have a radar for situational awareness but are not permitted to issue radar vectors nor consider aircraft in "radar contact." They can, as seen in the video, issue traffic alerts and suggested altitudes. For more info, see FAA Order JO 7110.65AA, specifically 3-1-9"
Joe knows. A vector is a radar function. Generally, Class D = VFR tower. It is uncommon, but some Class D airspaces have a TRSA (terminal radar service area), and Van Nuys is not one of these
Another day at VNY
@VASAviation, now that the pilot of N84015 has commented here providing context, would it be respectful to change the thumbnail? You’re pretty much implying the pilot has conducted himself improperly when it was the fault of the controller for tagging the wrong call sign.
The thumbnail quotes a real sentence said by ATC
Talk about herding cats!
(un)controlled airspace.
Another competition to try to talk as fast as humanly possible.
Indeed. Those U.S. controllers need some serious training to learn to speak slower and more deliberate and stop making the excuse that their airspace is crowded.
@@Quotenwagnerianer I think it is a sign that there are just too many airplanes in the sky and humanity can’t keep up
@@Quotenwagnerianer I mean when you have airplanes about to run into each other, you don't have time to make sure everyone who can't speak English gets all of it.
So you want him to talk slower and watch the mid air happen?
Even without subtitles I understood everything he said, and I’m a hell of lot less experienced with sending and receiving radio communications than these pilots are.
@@joeg5414Some of those transmissions were ridiculously, dangerously unclear even for a native speaker with experience with ATC. They were simply speaking too quickly for clear and concise communications, and being clear and concise is critical for safe aviation. While in this particular case there was an issue with an aircraft not in radio contact, there is a broader general issue with some ATCs speaking way too quickly to the point where they are not understood properly. It's a problem, and it will continue until something firm is done to fix it.
Seems more like a NMAC was averted...
It took me multiple times replaying that controller in a quiet environment to understand him. Trying to hear him in an aircraft with a headset would be near impossible. He got complacent and let too much stack up I think.
In my life insurance policy, general aviation is among "dangerous activities" they won't cover. After watching this, it's hard to disagree.
What a circus
I honestly can’t understand most of that, way to quick, way to much mumbling, can’t imagine this is the safest of situations
I have seen the most ridiculous airspace invasions and near misses many times. And would say that they are far from rare!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a bit like when I tell my wife to go left and she goes right.
Three times right equals one time left - so she's somehow off to a good start. 😉
Yikes.
If you Google "sh*t show" it should show you this video.
Someone needs a really good talking to. And maybe a refresher on their regs.
Is this a competition to see who can speak the fastest ?
Has this controller never heard of a "heading"?!
Van Nuys is a Class D airport that underlies the Burbank Class C airspace. The controllers likely have a radar for situational awareness but are not permitted to issue radar vectors nor consider aircraft in "radar contact." They can, as seen in the video, issue traffic alerts and suggested altitudes. For more info, see FAA Order JO 7110.65AA, specifically 3-1-9
@@kevinbatz9048 You're right except that altitude restrictions aren't really suggested and is unrelated to tower radar displays.
ATC sounds more like an auctioneer than a controller. No wonder people are confused.
ATC needs to slow the heck down! He's practically unintelligible!