0:42 - What is Blotch? 2:42 - Classic Blotch Remedies 6:16 - My Formula (DIY Recipe) 7:21 - Does adding the finish actually make a difference? 8:16 - Testing Different Methods 11:30 - Testing Different Stains
Just for future reference, the test where you mirror a board by cutting it in half and staining both sides is flawed. The grain that "goes up" on one piece and absorbs more stain will be going down on the other board, since you flipped one of the boards upside down. If you did this and stained both boards the same way, I'd expect the dark and light spots to be opposite of each other, which is the case for many parts of the samples. I'm assuming the samples that contradict my theory are due to effects of the blotch remedies, but I can't be sure. This test is better than using two completely different boards, but not as good as your initial test that involved the laborious process of moving to a lower layer of the same board to perform tests. Therefore, even though I agree with the conclusion you come to, I think you came to it based on the results of a flawed test. Regardless, the video is still good and very informative. Thanks.
Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing say's that the instructions on the pre-stain can are wrong and you're supposed to let it dry 24hrs or 6-8hrs on a hot dry day before staining, he also say's gel stain can be an alternative to pre-staining. Thanks for the glue tip, I'll try it, I think the pre-stain gel stain makes more sense if it's a big project like a kitchen or built-in.
THANK YOUUUUUUU!!! Your DIY has changed everything for me. I use a lot of pine for dining tables simply because where I live, people will not pay for hardwood. I just used this on my favorite pine and it's gorgeous!!!!!
Thanks so much Mark! I was scared to renovate my old pine table as years ago I messed up the color wax (blotchy). But after watching your tips over and over I felt confident. The Juice worked perfectly and there’s ony a tiny amount of blotching on the stained surface of my fantastic ‘new’ table. I will enjoy it for years now. Thanks from The Netherlands (Europe).
I was working on refinishing an oak table. Did the sanding, used a wood conditioner and then stained. It came out horrible. Lots of blotches. I came to RUclips for an answer and you did not disappoint. Even though I had doubts about this working I picked up supplies I could find at the local hardware store. I sanded the table top again, used “Marc Juice”, then stained. It worked miracles! Came out exactly how I pictured and I couldn’t be happier. Thank you so much for this tutorial. This video was so well done. You are a great teacher. Thanks you for saving my project.
WOW - Marc this video was a lifesaver. I milled custom doors out of maple for an entertainment centre I built, and they stained horribly (I chose dark walnut varathane). Very blotchy after using Minwax's Wood Conditioner. I was ready to throw in the towel, but 'Marc Juice' saved the day. They came out looking like a professionally stained set of maple doors! This was the last piece on a very complicated (for me) build....so I'm very happy with the result. This stuff is GOLD. Huge appreciation for this video.
This video required a lot of time and effort. What a lot of us don't realize is that these videos are a gamble. Whether you present a simple tutorial or one as involved as this one, you don't know until you put it out there. I'm sure it was in the back of your mind the whole time; "is this going to be worth the effort?" I hope it was/is. It certainly gave me some useful information and I want to thank you.
I love the whimsical MS!!! I’m glad he’s back. Similar to your early content, the fun, playful, and humorous style was what made me drawn to your channel! I love me some Marc Juice! Thanks for the insight; I can’t wait to try it!
Such a great video. Thanks for all the work gone into this. It’s always an age old issue when you produce an amazing piece and ready for the finish, then it blotches and messes up the overall look. Thank you very much!
Just wanted you to know that I tried your recipe on some 100+ year-old reclaimed pine I'm practicing on before using it to build an electric guitar body out of. It worked well to prep the surface before applying a water-based dye and really appreciate you passing on this formula. I have a pic of the results if you want it. Thanks.
Hi folks, after trying several different products and methods on "BIRCH", I was unsuccessful at eliminating all the blotches and was ready to give up staining my furniture piece and just clear coating it. That was until I found this video. I mixed up a batch as formulated by Mark and applied it to the material. It dried pretty quick, so I was able to give it a light sanding with 400 grit and then applied the (water based) stain to find in my opinion, the most beautiful, grey stained birch wood with no blotches. THIS formula did the trick for me. Thanks so much for this great video !!!!!
I’ve had good results with very strong black tea as a conditioner. I’ve used it on pine and cherry and have been very happy with the results. I use 10 bags of English black breakfast tea in 1 pint of boiling water. Let it cool and paint it on and dry. Sand lightly to remove the fuzz and stain.
@@mick2spic I have successfully used both water and oil based stains and water based dyes. On the cherry piece, I used Danish oil and love the results.
I have avoided staining pine over the years but this method seems like a winner but will have to try this myself. I have tried several other methods but none seem to give me results I was looking for so gave up but this is giving me hope as I just build a standing mirror frame and will give this a shot. I appreciate your time on this.
I started DIY woodworking and have learned a lot. Recently my biggest challenge has been blotching because all I'm using during this learning period is the consumer pine from the big box stores. This gives me new hope. Thanks!
I’ve made the glue size and have had good luck with it but hated dealing with sanding the grain back. I’ve recently have had great results, actually better results using clear gel varnish as the prefinish and immediately apply gel stain over top the clear before it dries. The clear controls the absorption without sealing off the color coat. Major plus is no grain raising
Mark - thanks for sharing your formula, you could had easily canned and sold it - On glue sizing, I have found that Old school Elmers white school glue works great. I’ll need to experiment with the addition of a clear water born finish.
Thank you for this! I've been having a problem with blotching and I haven't had much luck with the commercial pre-stain products. Your juice is easy to make, easy to use, and since it's all water-based there are no fumes to deal with. Best of all, IT WORKS! I used 2 1/4 teaspoons of glue, 2 1/4 teaspoons of MInwax Polycrylic, and added enough water to make 1 cup. I subscribed to your channel and will look for more of your videos.
Do you use oil stain over the polycrylic solution? Polycrylic is water-based, right? Is it okay to use oil stain over a water-based solution like that?
I took up the building of stringed instruments in my retirement. I found your analysis and demonstrations regarding finishes and stains incredibly helpful!
I've been using "Mark" juice for 10 years. I works amazing to seal cut sides on MDF as well. Which is a must if you're going to be painting it for finishing.
Great and informative video! I really like how commited you were to testing. Fair comparison of all the methods. I'm subbed! I have one observation, however - the method you proposed solves the blotch problem, no doubt, but the wood stained without treatment has something very beautiful in it. The contours of wood grain are more visible, the contrasts are more interesting. That being said. if you want an artistic finish that enhances the beauty of the wood grain, it is better to stain without treatment and just work your way to a beautiful stained look through staining and sanding multiple times. This is how musical instruments are stained. The effects of great luthiers' work are truly stunning with this method.
Excellent examples. Thorough method for creating comparables. Glue + sawdust as filler. Glue + stain + water as conditioner. We’re going to need a bigger bottle of glue. Thanks for the video!
used this on a previous project turned out beautiful. skipped it this time and did a different process oh the struggle this time. used the march juice and solved a majority of my problems.
Very useful video. I tend to just use thinned Shellac because I almost always use Shellac as a finish so very convenient to use the same product and I know will be compatible.
Shout out to Marc Juice! Came searching for a solution after my unfinished pine shelves were blotchy even after using a pre-stain conditioner. Wish I saw this video before, could've saved me a lot of sanding to remove the old finish. This stuff really works! Made a smaller batch of Marc Juice since it was a little project: 10g wood glue, 10g water-based stain, 240g water
I do something a little different than others. After sanding to 180 I put on two light coats of wipe on poly. Then I lightly sand. Then I put gel stain on top and wipe off the excess. Then I let it dry for the night. Then about 3 more coats of wipe on poly. Then some 4 steel wool with paste wax. Try it and let me know if you like it.
Mark, thank you for your great suggestions on how to stain with minimal blotches. I have struggled for several years trying to obtain a uniform stain coverage on hard maple. Following your guidance, my staining has improved. I do have a suggestion that gave me an even more consistent stain. After plaining my plank of hard maple, I sand with an 80 grit wood sandpaper and then 120 grit, using a random, orbital sander with vaccuum attachment. I then lightly, hand sand with 150 grit sandpaper in the direction of the grain. I apply your prescribed mixture of wood glue, polycyclic varnish and distilled water. After it dries, I do not sand it, but apply two coats of stain (per stain application directions), followed by a clear polyurethane varnish. After the varnish hardens, I then lightly hand sand with 220 grit sandpaper and add subsequent layers of varnish. I see a marked improvement of the stain coverage, that I assume is due to the mixture raising the grain - allowing improved absorbtion of the stain. I have also applied this technique using dyes and polycrylic clear coat with comporable results. Plus, I had similar results on 6" x 12" pieces of soft maple, white oak, red oak and ash. I now look forward to future projects using maple.
I saw you didn’t sand after using Marc’s conditioner and just stained the wood after the conditioner dried. Wouldn’t the conditioner raise the grain though? And what kind of stain have you had success with using on top of Marc’s conditioner? Thx
Marc,thank you for another great video and tip. I recently read an article by Bob Flexner and he mentioned that the instructions for commercial wood conditioners are wrong. He recommends letting the conditioner dry completely over night. He showed some examples and there was a huge difference when following his suggestion. I’ve had success making poplar look like cherry by using the shellack method with a one pound cut. I’ll try your formula next.
I have thought about experimenting with the commercial conditioners because I wondered about the instructions. Thanks for the info. I'll find the article your referenced.
I’ve had reasonable success with the Varathane pre stain, but I agree with the drying time. I have found that if I don’t ensure that it’s dry and ‘cure’ that it remains a but soft on the surface and completely clogs the sand paper. (I like to sand before appling the waterbased stain.) However, when it is given more time to dry, it sands just as expected. I plan on trying this juice as I have just ran out of what I’ve purchased.
Noob question here: Is 'finish' the same as a stain? if so, can i just add a few tablespoons of the stain i intend to use (if water based) or should it be a clear color?
Thank you Mark for this helpful tip. I am having all my pine floors refinished. After sanding off the floor's old stain, I used a wood conditioner and then had a good quality stain applied. The results were horrific. I was really perplexed because I had done everything right, or so I thought. I am excited to try the Mark Juice and have my floors re-sanded and finished, this time with better results.
I use 40% glue by volume for general finishes dye stain. Love it on pine and poplar. Really stubborn wood gets two coats of the glue size. I find a second thin coat is easier then mixing something thicker.
Yaye finaly someone that dives into a problem that was mine for a very long time 👏👏👏. Thank you soooo mutch for making this video . Never thought that your juice would be so miraculus 😜🤣👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
You got me with the coffee drinking for a second there while I wasn't looking at the screen. All of that slurping sounded like you were blasting off with a big flower powered glass piece. Lol 😵 I was expecting to look up a see Matthew McConaughey at the high school lurking with the bell bottoms again. 😅 Thanks for the video.
Great video! I prepared some MarcJuice (4 vol% PVA adhesive, 4 vol% PU) and tested it alongside a second method, wetting the surface with Extender (from General Finishes, a polyol mix, AKA pot life extender for PU based stains). Both of these methods worked excellently. I recommend you try Extender method if you ever do a video update. I’ve also ordered some proper, pure polyvinyl alcohol with higher polymerization & hydrolysis level, so it will have better film forming character and liquid resistance compared to the PVA they use for adhesives. I’ll reply with an update and let you know how that compares with MarcJuice!
I’m a total noob, so apologies in advance. In your conditioning formulation (M Juice) you use water-based finish with the glue. 1. When you say finish, do you mean stain or polyurethane/sealer? 2. Can I use oil-based finish (or stain, or whatever it is) or must I use water-based finish in this step? 3. After staining (in which I’m not limited to either water or oil based stain, as per video) do I seal with water or oil based poly based on the stain type used? Thank you.
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but when using "Marc Juice", which is water-based, are you then staining with water-based stains or can you use oil-based and gel stains with "Marc Juice"? Good video! Thanks.
I'm a newish (is that a word??) woodworker and have been watching your videos for awhile now and find them so very helpful - and I just subscribed. This topic hits the perfect thread for me as I am just getting into staining / dying some of my projects. I especially enjoyed your video on stains v dyes and will begin experimenting with dye as a result. Like one of your commenters below, I use lots of pine as it is inexpensive and working with "hard" woods is just a bit above my pay grade... I need to become more confident in my skills before screwing up a $100.00+ worth of walnut or zebra, etc :) SO.. "Marc Juice" it will be!! Thanks for your ALWAYS comprehensive and easy to understand educational videos... and of course the humor is also appreciated :), Larry
Ill give it a try. 1st try with your 3+3 formula on hard sanded doug fir. Hand rubbed in. I dont brush on with soft woods as it does drink up too much IMHO. The 3+3 did appear to help a fair bit. I havent used it enough to say more yet. I do use pre-stain as well. More use to come will tell.
Thanks for the video, so helpful! I've been using boiled linseed oil as conditioner followed by oil based stain and poly and that's helped a little but I'm looking forward to trying your recipe.
I use that same Varathane conditioner on my hardwood projects and I find that it gives the grain a gorgeous pop even without stain. Whenever I use mango wood I don't even stain it. The conditioner makes it look amazing on its own.
Thank you so much for your effort in this. I have a pine board and I'm new to staining so I'm happy to have found your site prior to diving in then crying later.
Marc’s mix is super consistent and looking good! Keep up the great work as the goal is for us to continue to inspire others to build something awesome! 👍🏼
That the best video about pine blotching solution around, I alway used shellac as washcoat and this gives good results but with some annoying issues, so I can't wait to try your own recipe!
very useful and practical tips and examples I can use. I have always struggled with getting even (ok consistent) staining in my finished piece of furniture especially with the kind of common woods you mentioned. In my early days before YT videos chose just not to stain most of my projects. I have hopes to do better with some of the techniques you have suggested. Thanks for such in-depth videos on critical steps like finishing a well-made piece of wooden project
I've used dark stain on pine many times and the last was by far the best. I diluted Seal Coat 2 parts Seal Coat- 3 parts mineral spirits as the instructions said for a pre-stain. I applied dark Varathane stain and rubbed it in with a gray scotchbrite pad then wiped off the strain. Viola.
Hi Marc, this video was right up my alley. In particular I'd like something I can use inside to reduce blotches, ie without toxic chemicals, since I dont have a woodshop or garage. Yesterday i used pre stain conditioner on small area of drop leaf desk I'm redoing and yikes the fumes were SO bad i had to call the fire dept for advice on how to get rid of the smell bf the pilot on my gas stove blew me to kingdom come. Appreciate your suggestions. Obviously the wood glue and water in Marc Juice are odorless (will skip it on my cereal thanks) but the varnish, not so sure. May test a few mixtures water and wood glue with some mineral spirits thrown in for good measure and see it that helps.
PVA will dissolve but only when added slowly to hot (nearly boiling) water, under stirring. This method of preparing MarcJuice results in a dispersion of PVA rather than a dissolved solution. As long as you shake thoroughly immediately before using, it works well enough (Although a solution might work better).
@ The Wood Whisperer. Great demo and suggestions. Thanks for sharing. I have just installed a 70m2 rough-treated softwood timber deck. I'm not sure whether to stain or paint it. I like the idea of seeing the grain (using stain) but worry about the blotching. I may try out your glue recipe. The alternative is painting the deck and then woodgraining it, but I'm new to this and don't know what ratio of glaze to paint I need for a 70m2 deck!
Hey Marc can you use your formula with Transtint but use water/ alcohol at 50/50 instead of just water with Transtint? Wasn’t sure if the glue or poly in the formula won’t work with alcohol. Also my thinking of using 50/50 alcohol/ water is to prevent more possible grain raising after the Transtint dye. But maybe the grain raising & sanding after your conditioner was all the grain raising done?
Thanks for sharing! I was just about to experiment with glue sizing ratios, never thought to add color to it as well. Could you share the color of the water based stain and the tint color and ratio you used. Thanks on advance.
@@adamthewoodworker2571 No I didn't. I was using a piece of birch and was happy with ~20%+ amount of glue when I saw Marc's video and never got to anymore tests.
@@woodwhisperer Marc - I didn't watch carefully enough the first time but understand the process now, but my question was the name of the water based stain (General Finishes brand Espresso, Brown Mahogany, etc..) along with the tint and ratio used after you applied your "juice". Thanks - Carl
Love how thorough this comparison is! I tried to order Charles Neil conditioner & it never came. Tried to contact them and they sent an email with “tracking” but no tracking number. Thanks for sharing-definitely going to make Marc Juice as an alternative 😂
Brenda, like you, I also recently placed an order for Charles Neil anti-blotch conditioner that never came. I placed the order in May and immediately received tracking information. However, the tracking info on the USPS website as well as the Charles Neil Woodworking website both state that the the package has not shipped, only that a label has been created. I have contacted the Charles Neil Woodworking company numerous times and they claim that they sent the product - even though their own website shows that it never shipped. And they refuse to issue a refund. So, they essentially stole $49.95 from me. I have filed complaints with PayPal and with the BBB and strongly suggest that people do not order from the Charles Neil Woodworking company. I ordered the anti-blotch conditioner from Charles Neil in the past and had no problems. It is really sad that whoever is running the business after his death now seems to be running an illegitimate business (i.e., scam).
I have to try the Mark juice. What i find that helps me is i will brush on the stain, then i'll use a second cleaner brush to remove the excess stain. It's basically prevents the stain from penetrating as deep as it would when using a rag which will mash the finish into the wood. Good job Mark
Dang I've been waiting for something like this for a few years now. Apparently pre-stain is and has been an entirely America-thing. You can't find that stuff in Europe. Thank you. Birch is plentiful in my country and it's quite expensive to get any other hardwoods barring oak so it's quite annoying to be limited so heavily. Stains help a lot.
Y’all are not alone! I’m in South Africa and every person I have spoken to at the paint stores think I escaped from the asylum 😂 Then they try and sell me a cutting board conditioner (mineral oil and beeswax) and claim it’s the same thing 🤦🏼♂️
Thank you so much I tried Marc juice and got a amazing result no blotching or streaks made my project look great which was something I struggled with previously thanks again for the tip.
I am trying to refinish 20yr old maple cabinets with plywood insets that have turned orange. I've been sanding incessantly but can't seem to get to bare wood because unfortunately, they have prior stain. I live in CA and "green" strippers don't work to remove stain. The cabinets still have some color that is not consistent and look blotchy. I did not want to have to go darker which I why I started sanding. I have questions re your preconditioner; 1. Would your formula help to create a more consistent base to then apply a light color dye, toner or stain without sanding to bare wood? Does your conditioner block orange/yellowing like shellac allegedly does? 3. Would whitewashing after applying your preconditioner and then dye, tone or stain be a better option? 4. Is full painting my only option? Anything so I don't have to sand to bare wood, UHG! Recommendations appreciated.
I was determined to stain a poplar side table that I built. I watched videos to see how to do it. I did what they said, and the result was awful. It looked like I would paint, but then I saw this video and thought I'd give it a chance. It worked! I didn't need a quart of juice, so I calculated: 1 part glue to 20 parts water. I added enough dye to see color in the juice, probably about 3 parts. First I sanded. I had some 1000 grit at hand, so I used it as the last sanding. I then wetted it to raise the grain and sanded again. I then applied the juice, and it looked great. The stain was an amber dye. It was not my final stain. I used it as an undercoat to the final stain--a gel stain, Bartley's Colonial Maple. When dry, I sanded it with the 1000 grit, applied a second coat of juice, and sanded again. Once that was dry, I applied the gel stain. The results were terrific. I was at the point of despair, and this saved the day. Thank you.
what i do is i put sanding sealer on the board 1 to 2 coats and sanding it per coating and then i put the stain. and it looks great. found that way from a youtuber too named how to varnish tutorial.
So it's okay to use oil stain over the polycrylic "Marc juice" solution? Polycrylic is water-based, right? Is it okay to use oil stain over a water-based solution like that?
@@robira1313he actually uses oil based stain for most of this video. At about 11:30, he compares various others, but yes, it's compatible. Based on extensive use of the former product from Charles Neil (which is similar composition) I used two coats of the blotch control, sanding between and after to eliminate the raised grain. I then applied GF oil based strain after 24 hours. Finally, I applied two coats of the GF water based Enduro Var after 72 hours. This sequence was used on hundreds of linear feet of fir casing and base and several doors. I'd expect Marc's formula to behave about the same.
I just wish there was a way to see how well the stain under these different materials held up over time. Was one more prone to significantly bleach out with sun exposure or how age impacts the use of conditioner vs Mark Juice or just no difference but I guess we don’t have a time machine :(
0:42 - What is Blotch?
2:42 - Classic Blotch Remedies
6:16 - My Formula (DIY Recipe)
7:21 - Does adding the finish actually make a difference?
8:16 - Testing Different Methods
11:30 - Testing Different Stains
Just for future reference, the test where you mirror a board by cutting it in half and staining both sides is flawed. The grain that "goes up" on one piece and absorbs more stain will be going down on the other board, since you flipped one of the boards upside down. If you did this and stained both boards the same way, I'd expect the dark and light spots to be opposite of each other, which is the case for many parts of the samples. I'm assuming the samples that contradict my theory are due to effects of the blotch remedies, but I can't be sure. This test is better than using two completely different boards, but not as good as your initial test that involved the laborious process of moving to a lower layer of the same board to perform tests. Therefore, even though I agree with the conclusion you come to, I think you came to it based on the results of a flawed test. Regardless, the video is still good and very informative. Thanks.
@16:01 - What is Belch?
Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing say's that the instructions on the pre-stain can are wrong and you're supposed to let it dry 24hrs or 6-8hrs on a hot dry day before staining, he also say's gel stain can be an alternative to pre-staining. Thanks for the glue tip, I'll try it, I think the pre-stain gel stain makes more sense if it's a big project like a kitchen or built-in.
How long should the Marc Juice dry before staining?
What stain were you using at the 5 min mark? I think you used the same stain the whole video. Was it a dye?
THANK YOUUUUUUU!!! Your DIY has changed everything for me. I use a lot of pine for dining tables simply because where I live, people will not pay for hardwood. I just used this on my favorite pine and it's gorgeous!!!!!
Comedian and a serious maker, rolled into one,... that is why I love watching your videos Marc
Ya, it's for the Mark juice!
Thanks so much Mark! I was scared to renovate my old pine table as years ago I messed up the color wax (blotchy). But after watching your tips over and over I felt confident. The Juice worked perfectly and there’s ony a tiny amount of blotching on the stained surface of my fantastic ‘new’ table. I will enjoy it for years now. Thanks from The Netherlands (Europe).
I was working on refinishing an oak table. Did the sanding, used a wood conditioner and then stained. It came out horrible. Lots of blotches. I came to RUclips for an answer and you did not disappoint. Even though I had doubts about this working I picked up supplies I could find at the local hardware store. I sanded the table top again, used “Marc Juice”, then stained.
It worked miracles! Came out exactly how I pictured and I couldn’t be happier. Thank you so much for this tutorial. This video was so well done. You are a great teacher. Thanks you for saving my project.
What kind of stain did you use, water or oil? What brand?
WOW - Marc this video was a lifesaver. I milled custom doors out of maple for an entertainment centre I built, and they stained horribly (I chose dark walnut varathane). Very blotchy after using Minwax's Wood Conditioner. I was ready to throw in the towel, but 'Marc Juice' saved the day. They came out looking like a professionally stained set of maple doors! This was the last piece on a very complicated (for me) build....so I'm very happy with the result. This stuff is GOLD. Huge appreciation for this video.
This video required a lot of time and effort. What a lot of us don't realize is that these videos are a gamble. Whether you present a simple tutorial or one as involved as this one, you don't know until you put it out there. I'm sure it was in the back of your mind the whole time; "is this going to be worth the effort?" I hope it was/is. It certainly gave me some useful information and I want to thank you.
Thanks for the detailed analysis.
You put A LOT of work in this video... right down to the crazy editing! Much appreciated. Excellent video.
I love the whimsical MS!!! I’m glad he’s back. Similar to your early content, the fun, playful, and humorous style was what made me drawn to your channel!
I love me some Marc Juice! Thanks for the insight; I can’t wait to try it!
Such a great video. Thanks for all the work gone into this. It’s always an age old issue when you produce an amazing piece and ready for the finish, then it blotches and messes up the overall look. Thank you very much!
Just wanted you to know that I tried your recipe on some 100+ year-old reclaimed pine I'm practicing on before using it to build an electric guitar body out of. It worked well to prep the surface before applying a water-based dye and really appreciate you passing on this formula. I have a pic of the results if you want it. Thanks.
Hi folks, after trying several different products and methods on "BIRCH", I was unsuccessful at eliminating all the blotches and was ready to give up staining my furniture piece and just clear coating it. That was until I found this video. I mixed up a batch as formulated by Mark and applied it to the material. It dried pretty quick, so I was able to give it a light sanding with 400 grit and then applied the (water based) stain to find in my opinion, the most beautiful, grey stained birch wood with no blotches. THIS formula did the trick for me. Thanks so much for this great video !!!!!
Did you get black specks where the grain recessed? Another comment mentioned that on birch, but you seem to have great results! i would love to know
I’ve had good results with very strong black tea as a conditioner. I’ve used it on pine and cherry and have been very happy with the results. I use 10 bags of English black breakfast tea in 1 pint of boiling water. Let it cool and paint it on and dry. Sand lightly to remove the fuzz and stain.
This so interesting. Can't wait to try it!
That is also my technique to lessen blotch. And I also find it very effective.
@@gordoncouch1420. That’s interesting. What stain have you use successfully on top of it?
@@mick2spic I have successfully used both water and oil based stains and water based dyes. On the cherry piece, I used Danish oil and love the results.
@@gordoncouch1420 Nice! That’s great to hear, thanks for the reply
Thanks!
You bet! And thank YOU!
Really appreciate you putting in the tags for the video, thanks for taking that time!
I have avoided staining pine over the years but this method seems like a winner but will have to try this myself. I have tried several other methods but none seem to give me results I was looking for so gave up but this is giving me hope as I just build a standing mirror frame and will give this a shot. I appreciate your time on this.
Thanks for keeping your vids education focused and not focused on the awkwardly obvious product placements. Another great one Marc.
I started DIY woodworking and have learned a lot. Recently my biggest challenge has been blotching because all I'm using during this learning period is the consumer pine from the big box stores. This gives me new hope. Thanks!
Thank you for sharing this information! Also thank you for setting the mood in the beginning. 😂 Definitely cheered me up right from the start!
I’ve made the glue size and have had good luck with it but hated dealing with sanding the grain back. I’ve recently have had great results, actually better results using clear gel varnish as the prefinish and immediately apply gel stain over top the clear before it dries. The clear controls the absorption without sealing off the color coat. Major plus is no grain raising
Nick Ramey, can you tell me what products you used? Thanks!
@@lindamowry5855 General Finishes Gel Topcoat (the clear) and General Finishes Gel Stain.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
Mark - thanks for sharing your formula, you could had easily canned and sold it -
On glue sizing, I have found that Old school Elmers white school glue works great. I’ll need to experiment with the addition of a clear water born finish.
Thank you for this! I've been having a problem with blotching and I haven't had much luck with the commercial pre-stain products. Your juice is easy to make, easy to use, and since it's all water-based there are no fumes to deal with. Best of all, IT WORKS! I used 2 1/4 teaspoons of glue, 2 1/4 teaspoons of MInwax Polycrylic, and added enough water to make 1 cup.
I subscribed to your channel and will look for more of your videos.
Do you use oil stain over the polycrylic solution? Polycrylic is water-based, right? Is it okay to use oil stain over a water-based solution like that?
@@robira1313 You can use oil based over water based and vice versa as long as the first is completely cured.
Thank you soooo much🙏🙏🙏
I was so afraid to mess up my boards, now not anymore. What a great video and explanations.
I took up the building of stringed instruments in my retirement. I found your analysis and demonstrations regarding finishes and stains incredibly helpful!
Hey Mark and behind the scenes crew love the new format and hope you stick with it.
I like the Sunday morning release.
I've been using "Mark" juice for 10 years. I works amazing to seal cut sides on MDF as well. Which is a must if you're going to be painting it for finishing.
For paint I would think a shellac would work faster, being alcohol based. Ready for the next step 3x faster guaranteed!
Great and informative video! I really like how commited you were to testing. Fair comparison of all the methods. I'm subbed!
I have one observation, however - the method you proposed solves the blotch problem, no doubt, but the wood stained without treatment has something very beautiful in it. The contours of wood grain are more visible, the contrasts are more interesting. That being said. if you want an artistic finish that enhances the beauty of the wood grain, it is better to stain without treatment and just work your way to a beautiful stained look through staining and sanding multiple times. This is how musical instruments are stained. The effects of great luthiers' work are truly stunning with this method.
I used the same sort of juice on an end grain counter. Works surprisingly well on end grain as well.
Excellent examples. Thorough method for creating comparables. Glue + sawdust as filler. Glue + stain + water as conditioner. We’re going to need a bigger bottle of glue. Thanks for the video!
Hi Marc. Just started listening to your podcast. Just wanted to let you know you RUclips video was in my feed. Good job with everything you do 👍
Looks great. Going to give it a try. Does the water raise the grain? Do you wait for Marc juice to dry before applying an an oil based stain?
used this on a previous project turned out beautiful. skipped it this time and did a different process oh the struggle this time. used the march juice and solved a majority of my problems.
Best detailed experimentation with multiple formulas.
Very useful video. I tend to just use thinned Shellac because I almost always use Shellac as a finish so very convenient to use the same product and I know will be compatible.
Marc Juice every week on a Sunday. I’m all in. Great video Marc!
Shout out to Marc Juice! Came searching for a solution after my unfinished pine shelves were blotchy even after using a pre-stain conditioner. Wish I saw this video before, could've saved me a lot of sanding to remove the old finish. This stuff really works!
Made a smaller batch of Marc Juice since it was a little project: 10g wood glue, 10g water-based stain, 240g water
Thanks Marc - I really appreciate this sort of ‘wood whispering’ looking forward to more 😀
I do something a little different than others. After sanding to 180 I put on two light coats of wipe on poly. Then I lightly sand. Then I put gel stain on top and wipe off the excess. Then I let it dry for the night. Then about 3 more coats of wipe on poly. Then some 4 steel wool with paste wax. Try it and let me know if you like it.
Keep the blue mug. It looks good. I'm liking the increase in videos. You are a natural teacher.
Mark, thank you for your great suggestions on how to stain with minimal blotches. I have struggled for several years trying to obtain a uniform stain coverage on hard maple. Following your guidance, my staining has improved. I do have a suggestion that gave me an even more consistent stain. After plaining my plank of hard maple, I sand with an 80 grit wood sandpaper and then 120 grit, using a random, orbital sander with vaccuum attachment. I then lightly, hand sand with 150 grit sandpaper in the direction of the grain. I apply your prescribed mixture of wood glue, polycyclic varnish and distilled water. After it dries, I do not sand it, but apply two coats of stain (per stain application directions), followed by a clear polyurethane varnish. After the varnish hardens, I then lightly hand sand with 220 grit sandpaper and add subsequent layers of varnish. I see a marked improvement of the stain coverage, that I assume is due to the mixture raising the grain - allowing improved absorbtion of the stain. I have also applied this technique using dyes and polycrylic clear coat with comporable results. Plus, I had similar results on 6" x 12" pieces of soft maple, white oak, red oak and ash. I now look forward to future projects using maple.
I saw you didn’t sand after using Marc’s conditioner and just stained the wood after the conditioner dried. Wouldn’t the conditioner raise the grain though?
And what kind of stain have you had success with using on top of Marc’s conditioner? Thx
Marc,thank you for another great video and tip. I recently read an article by Bob Flexner and he mentioned that the instructions for commercial wood conditioners are wrong. He recommends letting the conditioner dry completely over night. He showed some examples and there was a huge difference when following his suggestion. I’ve had success making poplar look like cherry by using the shellack method with a one pound cut. I’ll try your formula next.
I have thought about experimenting with the commercial conditioners because I wondered about the instructions. Thanks for the info. I'll find the article your referenced.
I’ve had reasonable success with the Varathane pre stain, but I agree with the drying time. I have found that if I don’t ensure that it’s dry and ‘cure’ that it remains a but soft on the surface and completely clogs the sand paper. (I like to sand before appling the waterbased stain.) However, when it is given more time to dry, it sands just as expected. I plan on trying this juice as I have just ran out of what I’ve purchased.
This video has come at the perfect time. I'm just about to stain a dining table for the first time.
Great vid! Thank you for the help. And BRAVO to the "Back to the Future" props on the wall =D
Thanks for all the testing and sharing the formula for a great economical DIY alternative to expensive wood conditioners.
Noob question here: Is 'finish' the same as a stain? if so, can i just add a few tablespoons of the stain i intend to use (if water based) or should it be a clear color?
Pretty interesting results, dude! Fantastic work! 😃
Thanks a lot for all the tips!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thank you Mark for this helpful tip. I am having all my pine floors refinished. After sanding off the floor's old stain, I used a wood conditioner and then had a good quality stain applied. The results were horrific. I was really perplexed because I had done everything right, or so I thought. I am excited to try the Mark Juice and have my floors re-sanded and finished, this time with better results.
This was probably the best and most useful video you’ve ever made. Thank you
I use 40% glue by volume for general finishes dye stain. Love it on pine and poplar. Really stubborn wood gets two coats of the glue size. I find a second thin coat is easier then mixing something thicker.
Great content, well organized. Super speaking skills brings the whole presentation to 5/5
Yaye finaly someone that dives into a problem that was mine for a very long time 👏👏👏. Thank you soooo mutch for making this video . Never thought that your juice would be so miraculus 😜🤣👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Wow!!! What a time intensive project! SO much appreciated.
You got me with the coffee drinking for a second there while I wasn't looking at the screen.
All of that slurping sounded like you were blasting off with a big flower powered glass piece. Lol 😵
I was expecting to look up a see Matthew McConaughey at the high school lurking with the bell bottoms again. 😅
Thanks for the video.
Great video! I prepared some MarcJuice (4 vol% PVA adhesive, 4 vol% PU) and tested it alongside a second method, wetting the surface with Extender (from General Finishes, a polyol mix, AKA pot life extender for PU based stains). Both of these methods worked excellently. I recommend you try Extender method if you ever do a video update. I’ve also ordered some proper, pure polyvinyl alcohol with higher polymerization & hydrolysis level, so it will have better film forming character and liquid resistance compared to the PVA they use for adhesives. I’ll reply with an update and let you know how that compares with MarcJuice!
I’m a total noob, so apologies in advance. In your conditioning formulation (M Juice) you use water-based finish with the glue.
1. When you say finish, do you mean stain or polyurethane/sealer?
2. Can I use oil-based finish (or stain, or whatever it is) or must I use water-based finish in this step?
3. After staining (in which I’m not limited to either water or oil based stain, as per video) do I seal with water or oil based poly based on the stain type used?
Thank you.
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but when using "Marc Juice", which is water-based, are you then staining with water-based stains or can you use oil-based and gel stains with "Marc Juice"? Good video! Thanks.
I'm a newish (is that a word??) woodworker and have been watching your videos for awhile now and find them so very helpful - and I just subscribed. This topic hits the perfect thread for me as I am just getting into staining / dying some of my projects. I especially enjoyed your video on stains v dyes and will begin experimenting with dye as a result. Like one of your commenters below, I use lots of pine as it is inexpensive and working with "hard" woods is just a bit above my pay grade... I need to become more confident in my skills before screwing up a $100.00+ worth of walnut or zebra, etc :) SO.. "Marc Juice" it will be!! Thanks for your ALWAYS comprehensive and easy to understand educational videos... and of course the humor is also appreciated :), Larry
Ill give it a try.
1st try with your 3+3 formula on hard sanded doug fir. Hand rubbed in. I dont brush on with soft woods as it does drink up too much IMHO. The 3+3 did appear to help a fair bit. I havent used it enough to say more yet. I do use pre-stain as well. More use to come will tell.
Thanks for the video, so helpful! I've been using boiled linseed oil as conditioner followed by oil based stain and poly and that's helped a little but I'm looking forward to trying your recipe.
I never would've thought of using glue. Thanks for sharing!
I use that same Varathane conditioner on my hardwood projects and I find that it gives the grain a gorgeous pop even without stain. Whenever I use mango wood I don't even stain it. The conditioner makes it look amazing on its own.
This was the most efficient comparison! Super helpful! Following
Helpful. AND love the dinosaur print and the fabulous California Sunset license plate - best ever.
Thank you so much for your effort in this. I have a pine board and I'm new to staining so I'm happy to have found your site prior to diving in then crying later.
Thanks for posting this, I was really hoping to see this when you had the Instagram post not too long ago.
Marc’s mix is super consistent and looking good! Keep up the great work as the goal is for us to continue to inspire others to build something awesome! 👍🏼
That the best video about pine blotching solution around, I alway used shellac as washcoat and this gives good results but with some annoying issues, so I can't wait to try your own recipe!
very useful and practical tips and examples I can use. I have always struggled with getting even (ok consistent) staining in my finished piece of furniture especially with the kind of common woods you mentioned. In my early days before YT videos chose just not to stain most of my projects. I have hopes to do better with some of the techniques you have suggested. Thanks for such in-depth videos on critical steps like finishing a well-made piece of wooden project
So it’s okay to use your “Marc juice” before using an oil based product?
This is one of, if not your best, video on this channel.
Excellent video, Marc. Very helpful. Cool new mugs.
I've used dark stain on pine many times and the last was by far the best. I diluted Seal Coat 2 parts Seal Coat- 3 parts mineral spirits as the instructions said for a pre-stain.
I applied dark Varathane stain and rubbed it in with a gray scotchbrite pad then wiped off the strain.
Viola.
Hi Marc, this video was right up my alley. In particular I'd like something I can use inside to reduce blotches, ie without toxic chemicals, since I dont have a woodshop or garage. Yesterday i used pre stain conditioner on small area of drop leaf desk I'm redoing and yikes the fumes were SO bad i had to call the fire dept for advice on how to get rid of the smell bf the pilot on my gas stove blew me to kingdom come.
Appreciate your suggestions. Obviously the wood glue and water in Marc Juice are odorless (will skip it on my cereal thanks) but the varnish, not so sure. May test a few mixtures water and wood glue with some mineral spirits thrown in for good measure and see it that helps.
Is it normal that it doesn't fully mix? Mine had some little chunks. I used the same top coat and the PVA gorilla wood glue.
PVA will dissolve but only when added slowly to hot (nearly boiling) water, under stirring. This method of preparing MarcJuice results in a dispersion of PVA rather than a dissolved solution. As long as you shake thoroughly immediately before using, it works well enough (Although a solution might work better).
@ The Wood Whisperer. Great demo and suggestions. Thanks for sharing. I have just installed a 70m2 rough-treated softwood timber deck. I'm not sure whether to stain or paint it. I like the idea of seeing the grain (using stain) but worry about the blotching. I may try out your glue recipe. The alternative is painting the deck and then woodgraining it, but I'm new to this and don't know what ratio of glaze to paint I need for a 70m2 deck!
I've been using Charles Neil the past 5 years with an oil stain. I'll have to test your recipe Marc. Thx
Hey Marc can you use your formula with Transtint but use water/ alcohol at 50/50 instead of just water with Transtint? Wasn’t sure if the glue or poly in the formula won’t work with alcohol. Also my thinking of using 50/50 alcohol/ water is to prevent more possible grain raising after the Transtint dye. But maybe the grain raising & sanding after your conditioner was all the grain raising done?
Thanks for sharing! I was just about to experiment with glue sizing ratios, never thought to add color to it as well. Could you share the color of the water based stain and the tint color and ratio you used. Thanks on advance.
There was no color added. That mix of water based finish may have had some residual dye from a previous project but it was an inconsequential amount.
Hey Karl, did you ever run any tests with different glue ratios?
@@adamthewoodworker2571 No I didn't. I was using a piece of birch and was happy with ~20%+ amount of glue when I saw Marc's video and never got to anymore tests.
@@woodwhisperer Marc - I didn't watch carefully enough the first time but understand the process now, but my question was the name of the water based stain (General Finishes brand Espresso, Brown Mahogany, etc..) along with the tint and ratio used after you applied your "juice". Thanks - Carl
@@woodwhisperer So then is your "water based finish" that you mix with the glue & water a clear top coat? And does it have to be water based?
Love how thorough this comparison is! I tried to order Charles Neil conditioner & it never came. Tried to contact them and they sent an email with “tracking” but no tracking number.
Thanks for sharing-definitely going to make Marc Juice as an alternative 😂
Brenda, like you, I also recently placed an order for Charles Neil anti-blotch conditioner that never came. I placed the order in May and immediately received tracking information. However, the tracking info on the USPS website as well as the Charles Neil Woodworking website both state that the the package has not shipped, only that a label has been created. I have contacted the Charles Neil Woodworking company numerous times and they claim that they sent the product - even though their own website shows that it never shipped. And they refuse to issue a refund. So, they essentially stole $49.95 from me.
I have filed complaints with PayPal and with the BBB and strongly suggest that people do not order from the Charles Neil Woodworking company. I ordered the anti-blotch conditioner from Charles Neil in the past and had no problems. It is really sad that whoever is running the business after his death now seems to be running an illegitimate business (i.e., scam).
Thanks maestro, I will test and try it. I have an ugly pine dresser that I did not want to use all paint
I have to try the Mark juice. What i find that helps me is i will brush on the stain, then i'll use a second cleaner brush to remove the excess stain. It's basically prevents the stain from penetrating as deep as it would when using a rag which will mash the finish into the wood. Good job Mark
Dang I've been waiting for something like this for a few years now. Apparently pre-stain is and has been an entirely America-thing. You can't find that stuff in Europe.
Thank you. Birch is plentiful in my country and it's quite expensive to get any other hardwoods barring oak so it's quite annoying to be limited so heavily. Stains help a lot.
Same story here in Australia… when I ask for it at the paint store they looked at me like I’m an alien 😂
I’m in Vienna, and have been looking everywhere for PreStain Conditioner… they all look at me like I’m nuts…
Y’all are not alone! I’m in South Africa and every person I have spoken to at the paint stores think I escaped from the asylum 😂 Then they try and sell me a cutting board conditioner (mineral oil and beeswax) and claim it’s the same thing 🤦🏼♂️
Was wondering how long you let “the juice” dry before you stain?
Thank you so much I tried Marc juice and got a amazing result no blotching or streaks made my project look great which was something I struggled with previously thanks again for the tip.
Excellent video sir a lot of information I will definitely be giving this a try thank you
Thank you for sharing your recipe for bloch control and I like the name "Marc Juice."
I am trying to refinish 20yr old maple cabinets with plywood insets that have turned orange. I've been sanding incessantly but can't seem to get to bare wood because unfortunately, they have prior stain. I live in CA and "green" strippers don't work to remove stain. The cabinets still have some color that is not consistent and look blotchy. I did not want to have to go darker which I why I started sanding. I have questions re your preconditioner; 1. Would your formula help to create a more consistent base to then apply a light color dye, toner or stain without sanding to bare wood? Does your conditioner block orange/yellowing like shellac allegedly does? 3. Would whitewashing after applying your preconditioner and then dye, tone or stain be a better option? 4. Is full painting my only option? Anything so I don't have to sand to bare wood, UHG! Recommendations appreciated.
Can I use an oil based finish to the wood glue/water mixture?
Is this a one time use recipe or can it be saved in a jar.
I wonder if leaving bigger pours, like using 150 grit max instead, would help with the final result.
I was determined to stain a poplar side table that I built. I watched videos to see how to do it. I did what they said, and the result was awful. It looked like I would paint, but then I saw this video and thought I'd give it a chance.
It worked! I didn't need a quart of juice, so I calculated: 1 part glue to 20 parts water. I added enough dye to see color in the juice, probably about 3 parts. First I sanded. I had some 1000 grit at hand, so I used it as the last sanding. I then wetted it to raise the grain and sanded again.
I then applied the juice, and it looked great. The stain was an amber dye. It was not my final stain. I used it as an undercoat to the final stain--a gel stain, Bartley's Colonial Maple. When dry, I sanded it with the 1000 grit, applied a second coat of juice, and sanded again. Once that was dry, I applied the gel stain. The results were terrific. I was at the point of despair, and this saved the day. Thank you.
could this be used on beech plywood?
what i do is i put sanding sealer on the board 1 to 2 coats and sanding it per coating and then i put the stain. and it looks great. found that way from a youtuber too named how to varnish tutorial.
Soon to be heard all across the land...."gimme soma dat Marc Juice"
Look for it at your local 7-11!
I wouldn't be buying anything called marc juice......lol. The name just makes me cringe
From the makers of the spag stick, spag juice.
Please no
Is the General finish a poly or ? I need to use this on maple…I know. Fun!
I have a can of Zinsser Sanding Sealer that I never use. I wonder if i could substitute in the place of the finish u add to the “Marc Juice”.
So it's okay to use oil stain over the polycrylic "Marc juice" solution? Polycrylic is water-based, right? Is it okay to use oil stain over a water-based solution like that?
Was wondering this as well
@@MrMrskemp - Looks like we'll be wondering for months more!
@@robira1313he actually uses oil based stain for most of this video. At about 11:30, he compares various others, but yes, it's compatible.
Based on extensive use of the former product from Charles Neil (which is similar composition) I used two coats of the blotch control, sanding between and after to eliminate the raised grain. I then applied GF oil based strain after 24 hours. Finally, I applied two coats of the GF water based Enduro Var after 72 hours.
This sequence was used on hundreds of linear feet of fir casing and base and several doors.
I'd expect Marc's formula to behave about the same.
LOL
I just wish there was a way to see how well the stain under these different materials held up over time. Was one more prone to significantly bleach out with sun exposure or how age impacts the use of conditioner vs Mark Juice or just no difference but I guess we don’t have a time machine :(
He made another video that goes into great detail on the different finishes holding up outdoors. It’s spectacular.
Very informative video. I like your style.