Review Rocket R Nine One Pressure Profiling Saturated Group Espresso Machine
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Review of the Rocket Espresso R Nine One saturated group pressure profiling espresso machine. See bottomless extractions, latte art, touchscreen operations, learn about all the features and capabilities of this unique high-end home and light commercial espresso machine. Andrew Meo of Rocket espresso is Marc's guest. Together, they demonstrate the R Nine One including 5 step time and pressure programmable profiling, manual pressure profiling with the ability to save a manual profile, hot water mixing, in-depth touchscreen operation and more.
Rocket Espresso R Nine One:
www.wholelatte...
Rocket Espresso on Social Media
----------------------------------------------------------
► Follow Rocket Espresso on Instagram: / rocketespresso
► Follow Rocket Espresso on Twitter: / rocketespresso
► Like Rocket Espresso on Facebook: / rocketespresso
Talk to our experts: www.wholelatte...
Whole Latte Love on Social Media
---------------------------------------------------------
► Follow Whole Latte Love on Instagram: / wholelattelove
► Follow Whole Latte Love on Twitter: / wholelattelove
► Like Whole Latte Love on Facebook: / wholelatteloveonline
Extraordinary ! Fantastic to be talked through how it was designed and works. The quality of the components and engineering look to be very high quality.
Considering purchasing one. It will be my combined birthday & Christmas present !
Hi Paul, Thanks for the comment! Very impressive machine. Magnetic pump has a wonderful tone. Love the repeatability of the profiles and the ability to run manually and save your moves when you nail an extraction.
Marc
I've never been a fan of Rocket machines, but this one is interesting. The brew group is a little awkward looking, but that's pretty much a given of any saturated group. Compared to some other profilers, I like that you get an actual realtime graph, pressure, shot time, and volume all on one relatively small screen without a cluttered appearance. The one touch save of a manual pull is awesome. I like the adjustable hot water temp (I make a lot of Americanos), and the steam pressure looks good (atleast 2 bar I'm guessing), and they ditched the rotary steam knob for a lever (finally). Not completely sold yet, and probably wouldn't be until I spent a few days with it. I've spent some time on a GS3 and was honestly underwhelmed by the performance and especially the looks, given the price point of that machine. It made great coffee, but no better than my ECM. Looking forward to hearing more on this machine, it's serviceability, and just general opinions of the coffee it produces.
Hi roach, Thanks for the comments. Max temp on the steam boiler is 266F which gives about 1.6bar. Steam boiler is massive at 3.5L. Water mixing is a very nice feature. My wife who is not a straight espresso drinker was in Italy recently. So she drank a lot of Americanos. Every single one of them had boiling water poured over the top! We rotate high-end machines through the staff lounge here and had GS3 in for a couple months. So far the staff is really taking to the R Nine One. GS3 makes excellent coffee for those who know how to use it. What this machine does is allow you to fine tune and repeat. One can try and do that on a GS3 but super difficult to be consistent. And ya, the ability to save a manually run profile is awesome when you hit a god shot. We will have much more on the machine coming up. I'd like to run the same coffee, same grind with different profiles and get opinions on flavor affects.
I was choosing between this and the Lelit Bianca. Two very different machines but both has ways to profile the shot. The Rocket with pressure-profiling and the Bianca with flow-profiling. Ultimately I went with the Bianca even though it was tempting with the saturated group and repeat-ability of profiles on the Rocket. Expecting delivery today. Happy days to come!
Hello sir marc..
I would like to know regarding on built in pump. Is it magnetic pump right?? Is there any advantage and disadvantage vs commercial rotary pump.? Including the life span..
Thankyou so much. Have a nice day.
Looking forward.
Good explanation of how pressure profiling works, why you would want it, and how to use it. Replacing that cumbersome external controller with an integrated display is a great move by Rocket. My 3 dislikes; 1) the price, 2) some questionable colour and icon choices (10:42) in the display, and 3) the ungainly looking steam wand. The new and more accessible implementation of pressure profiling makes this a tempting upgrade.
Hi Michael, Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Marc
How is your thoughts about LaMarzocco GS3 MP compared to this machine? If you have the money to burn, what will you choose between the two?
WOW what a machine !
It is super neat, I just don't understand the market for it. It is too expensive ($7,000+) for 99.9% of home users and it isn't exactly for commercial use either. So just don't quite get who is going to buy it.
Exactly. Don't understand why anyone would buy this over a Slayer which can do commercial usage without breaking a sweat and be in the home as well.
Hi Thanks for the comment. It's currently
@@GustavoSanchez64 Hi, Thanks for the comment. Think the entry-level Slayer starts over $8K. No reason the R Nine One with its 1.8L brew boiler 3.5L steam boiler and saturated group couldn't match that machine in output. Those boilers are a bit larger than in the single group Slayer. Also pre-infusion on Slayer while adjustable is not meant to be changed all the time. You can do whatever you want on the R Nine One with 5 programmable 5 step time/pressure profiles. Beyond that you can run totally manually - take the pressures wherever you want. If you happen to nail a perfect shot you can save your manual moves and repeat them automatically. All together you're be ready to go with a specific profile for 6 different coffees. That's very powerful for high-end home users or in a commercial setting with specialty coffee service serviceable with a single group machine.
Marc
@Buysome Bitcoin those people like the status that comes with a la marzocco.
@Buysome Bitcoin There are rich people who like high end espresso machines) Personally I think of this as of an espresso iphone - mandatory? no. nice to have? yes.
The machine seems fantastic in itself but what I really can't understand/accept is: you make a very good saturated group in AISI 316L, same for the two boilers and this is an EXCELLENT choice...but then pipes & fittings & coupling in copper/brass, plastic hoses...WHY??? On a 5K+€ (and about $7.000) machine it make absolutely no sense to save few dollars on aspects like this. When you got an AISI 316L group and boilers you can easily achieve a 100% "safe" water path with no brass, no copper, no lead, no plastic. This is not a criticism specifically aimed at Rocket, because also La Marzocco, Slayer, Synesso and Kees van der Westen make the same choices on machines that cost double or triple this one, that is for me absurd and up to offensive towards the buyers. The manufacturers mentality is absolutely too conservative, to say the least. They need to pay more attention to the safety and durability of the materials, nowadays people pay lot more attention to these aspects than 30-40 or 50 years ago: in my view, at least on premium top machines it should be mandatory to build using exclusively AISI 316L stainless steel.
Thanks for the comment. Fairly certain the plastic (silicone I believe) hoses internally are all for low pressure drain routing to the drip tray. No brew or steam water travel through those hoses. They handle OPV, air bleed from the brew boiler, etc. As to other than stainless steel components... I was at Bezzera's factory in Italy a few months ago. They are one of the few manufacturers making most of their own components. We had long discussions regarding brass including meeting California Prop 65 requirements. I'm not a metals specialist but older brasses were treated to remove lead from surface and then plated. The underlying brass was food safe even if the plating wore off. They have moved on to newer brass formulations like OT57 and OT60. These are more brittle so harder to work with but to my understanding are food compliant without further treatment.
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the detailed clarification about the hoses. I saw some pictures that showed the internals of the R9 One and there were this plastic (silicon!) hoses but It was not clearly visible what they were connected to. I know about OT57, the so called "lead free" brass that is considered food compliant. I don't know if the brass used in R9 One is OT57 but this is not my point anyway: I think that a machine in this class, one of the few prosumer with AISI 316L group & boilers, should have been provided with AISI 316L pipes, fitting, coupling & valves (same for La Marzocco GS3, Slayer, etc. as I wrote before). I know that there is no machine yet on the market that is "full stainless", with the only exception of Ascaso Big Dream which however is a full commercial, very big and pricey machine - so it "plays in another league". I think that had Rocket made this choice going full stainless, would have added real value because the first on the market to offer this "luxury" in a prosumer machine. It already scores many points due to big saturated group, big boilers and powerful streaming, quality components and hybrid profiling (comp+manual) and lot of other features (volumetric dosing, programmable on/off,etc.) and It is missing very little so that "have it all"...for me what I would like to add is 100% AISI 316L parts and some advanced options in profiling like Decent Espresso DE1. I'm wondering if it is possible in the future to add flow profiling somehow, because only upgrading the software is clearly insufficient lacking something like a metering/needle valve...maybe an upgrading kit? (Yes I know I'm asking too much!)
You are welcome for the response and thank you for yours! I'm guessing on a cost v. benefit it's hard to justify using stainless for everything. We do pass on feature requests to manufactures and I'm guessing they may be reading the comments here as well - so yours will be heard. There is a flow meter in the machine. Could it be used to drive the pump in a future revision IDK.
@@WholelattelovepageYou're giving me great news! Yes, I understand that there is cost vs benefit involved ... also, there are probably not many people who asked for such "feature". But I think that if someone can purchase the R9 One, probably he can afford to spend few hundred $$ more and maybe he is interested in this "feature": the best solution would be to offer it as an option...for ex. ACS did exactly this for Vesuvius and as far as I know many chose the upgraded stainless version versus the standard with copper and PTFE pipes. Moreover, the difference in price in Europe between the two version is € 300, wich is absolutely reasonable. I do really hope that someone @ Rocket is reading my comments: I like this machine, my remarks should be taken in a good way, because they show my genuine interest and love for a product that is almost perfect for my needs...and, you know, when you like something you want it to be as perfect as possible! Summing up, Rocket could 1) offer the full stainless upgrade as an optional 2) for future revisions, move the display above the front panel, with a base that allows you to manage orientation, inclination and maybe height (just a little), as I wrote earlier. If I buy the machine I'm already considering doing this mod myself 3) Add more flexible and articulate profiling functionalities, possibly including direct flow management. All this will make the R9 One simply perfect, a true dream prosumer machine that can satisfy literally all genres of demanding buyers
@@o.t.t.o.t.t.1834 Marc has already explained a lot on safety aspect but even if there would be traces of lead in water - then how much of it would be in 30-50ml of espresso? How much cups per day would cause any noticeable harm to health? This could be checked by potential users and compared to harm from exhaust fumes we get by walking 5min. in downtown during rush hours. I suspect daily exposure to chemicals at home and work place and air pollution has more impact than a cup of coffee syrup. That said, every bit sums up, of course - but lets hunt for big numbers first.
Have they fixed the pressure read out on the digital display not matching the analog pressure gauge?
Thanks for the video! This machine is quite interesting. Has a lot of features in a good price point (at least in Sweden, it's priced between $2000-3000 less than the GS3 MP). But then it's also just little things that I really dislike about it. Like no lever for hot water. UI of the touch screen is HORRIBLE, that's not user friendly nor good looking at all. I don't know. It's like, they're 90% of the way to a truly amazing machine but then fall short on the finish line. In any case, keep on publishing great videos, thank you for this in-depth look!
Hi T, Thanks for the comments.
How does it compare to Epica?
Menu system is pretty clunky for the price point
Hi BB, Thanks for the comment. As mentioned in other comment Andrew had to operate the touchscreen from 60 degrees off angle so he was all thumbs!
@@Wholelattelovepage I get that - but having to go back and forth between menus to use hot water and steam vs just an actuation of a leaver makes things way more clunky. You have to press so many buttons just to save a profile ect. Just doesnt seem like the screen and the UI have a very good flow to them - very clunky and not very well thought out.
@@BunglesBreh Hi, I must be misunderstanding. You do not have to go back and forth between menus to get hot water or steam. Hot water is available via the water drops icon on main screen where the pressure profile is selected. Amount of hot water dispensed is programmable and stops automatically or you can stop anytime by touching the drops again. There's a manually adjustable mix valve to set hot water temp when the machine is plumbed. Steam is always available from the lever - you do not have to go into a menu to start steam. To save a manual profile is one touch from the screen you're on when you start a profile. For the five 5 step programmable profiles you do have to go in and set the time and pressure parameters. Press and hold on time and pressures and they ascend or descend rapidly.
I'll mention the first time I used the machine the UI was slightly confusing. After playing with it for 20 minutes it made a lot of sense and was a breeze to use. There's a USB connection inside the machine making it possible for end users to apply future upgrades/revisions to the UI.
Marc
@@BunglesBreh Completely agree. Moreover, the display is by far the biggest flaw design in this machine: its bad placement is the main cause of the somehow tight arrangement of elements in the front panel (ex. the water wand), also it is difficult to operate and to view easily at any angle that is not absolutely "perfect" because the display sits vertical flat without any possibility to adjust or rotate it. Of course - and it is OBVIOUS to me - the only right position should have been on top of the front panel, aligned with the group head, sitting in a stand designed so that the user can rotate it, adjust the inclination and the height. I really can't understand why a simple and effective solution like this was overlooked: the usability, user friendliness and the general look of the machine could have improved greatly.
@@Wholelattelovepage what about the water mixing Marc? The gs3 does this and it isnt done with a screwdriver. Dont you feel this is a bit of a silly feature for a 7000 machine?
Thanks for the post!
6:20 Would you tell us more about draining the boiler?
I'm on the fence if I should get the la marzocco linea mini or 🚀 R 9 one. Any suggestions? This would be for home use.
I'm coming from Breville Oracle BD and its died on me 3 times. The descaling is suspect on that machine. During my descale the platform never performs like stock.
Ahhhh.....
Hi Sergio, Thanks for the question. Not surprised with the BDB issues. It stuffs a lot of proprietary components into a plastic box. Very difficult to DIY repair and pro repair cost generally exceeds residual value by the time it's needed. IMO the LMLM is over priced for capabilities. Very well built but you pay a lot for the name. R9 One is okay but I'd take a long hard look at traditional machine grade dual boilers with flow control of the E61 group. Gives you LM GS3 capabilities at a much lower cost! Check out the Profitec Pro 700 or ECM Synchronika with flow control. Same machine internally the ECM has detail upgrades over the 700: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
If you want to go high-end, state of the art in programmable flow control is the Dalla Corte Mina. We prefer flow control extractions to machine using pressure as it has no regards to grind size. Learn more about the Mina here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
Hope that helps!
Marc
I've a question on saturated group - water isn't circulating there like in E61 group, I assume, instead group itself is heated directly from boiler as they are connected by a big mass of group's neck (in fact, they make up one part) and water inside group acts just like temp buffer and more so as a heater for thin tube running through boiler and into brewing group (visible at 9:18)?
In a theory it's similar to E61 with some nuances - E61 is heated only by water delivered through inlet pipe, SG is heated by neck heated by boiler itself and water inside neck and group. As water in neck isn't actively moved by convection as in E61, could it be it temp of group isn't raising much (assuming boiler temp isn't too high giving chance to radiate too much heat to group)? Also, SG has less chances to cool down group by flushing as brewing water is delivered through pipe surrounded by hot water....? To me seems E61 group, depending on boiler temp, tube length and flow restrictors can be either cold, just OK or on hot side, requiring operator to flush to adjust temp, but what about SG group - is it just so temp stable or it needs temp tweaks and is it tweaked same way as E61 group?
Hi 1, SG groups are very temp stable even in heavy use or no use for long periods for basically the reasons you have stated. Does not need temp tweaks. It's why saturated groups are so common in high volume commercial applications.
Marc
Nice machine with neat features! But way too expensive even for commercial use.
The touchscreen does not seem to respond every time.
Hey Rocket, why has your bottomless portafilter a different handle? Is it just some aftermarket one?
Hi D, Thanks for the comment. It's priced below the LM GS3 or Slayer single group machines so not sure how you arrive at way to expensive. Screen is very responsive when operating head on. Andrew was about 60 degrees off angle to stay out of the way of the camera so wasn't pressing in the right spots a couple of times. I agree it would be nice if the bottomless handle matched.
Marc
Way too expensive for commercial use? I don't think you have a grip on what many commercial machines cost.
@@roadhouse8604 for a single group machine it's expensive! You can get a Rocket Boxer for less and that's a two group machine. Yes, also a different concept. But specialty coffee shops would never buy a single group R9 despite the features.
Its cool that you can save a manual profile but does that manual profile have more than 5 steps? It seems like this machine has more potential than the customer is allowed to use. Can it do flow profiling
Hi K, The manual profile can have more than 5 steps and it's much more granular. You can do a slow continuous ramp of pressure up and down. Modifying pressure will modify flow rate thru the coffee.
@@Wholelattelovepage id love to see a comparison between this and the Strada EP one group. Or when is LM gonna ever release a GS3 EP.
@@Kanashto I'd like to but I don't have a Strada EP at the moment and it runs about 2x the price - yikes!
@@Wholelattelovepage forgot to mention that out of all the top top top end home machines (GS3, Rnineone, Dalla Corte Mina, Synesso MVP Hydra ... Slayer one group) this is the only one that can mimic an EP Strada as in a repeatable paddle profile. Keyword repeatable.
Does it do 2-bar steam pressure ? NSF certified?
Hi VL, Thanks for the questions. Does not do 2 bar steam pressure. Steam boiler is 3.6 liters so no shortage of steam! Not NSF certified. I should note not many Italian manufacturers seek NSF certification for equipment that's not intended for strictly commercial use.
Marc
Thanks for the response! One last, whats the cup clearance? Seems lower than most.
Hi Vernon, You are welcome! Clearance is 4.75" using the included bottomless portafilter and 3.12" under the spouted portailters
7K :-\ nice machine though... Don't like that steam wand, they should redesign the location.
Hi u, Thanks for the comment. It's a high-end machine! Less $$ than other popular profiling and pre-infusion machines and potentially more capable.
Marc
Seconding that the UI on the touchscreen is less than amazing
I bet Rocket didn't invest heavily in UI designers and software developer. The payrolls were heavy for the engineers obviously... and the machine designers. I won't lie Rocket espresso machines are very sexy.
"i guess" the sales guy wasn't really convincing, especially for the price of the machine I'd expect a bit more enthusiasm and someone thats really convinced of the product they manufacture / sell. :-)
Hi O, Andrew isn't a sales guy. He is one of the owners of Rocket Espresso. He can be a little dry :)
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage He sounds Australian who are in general pretty dry :)
Only the price is crazy:(
Decent’s tablet obsoletes this small screen. This unit’s price vindicates Decent’s.
Why is the guy in black is wearing a ECM sweater in a workshop of Rocket?
Hi CO, He must be a spy? JK, I do not know why.
Marc
Espresso machine porn!
Hi Tim, Got to love the naked extractions!
cheap PF quality. Lots of plastic pipings. Lose response to touch on screen, TOO SLOW/DULL RESPONSE TO TURNING THE PUDDLE (not puddle exactly though). Crema is far too poor. Pump (from gauge) unstable - means instability of quality. Everything jeopardizes advantage of the group (saturated one). Not worth for the price, to me.... But still very attractive.
Hi YT, Thanks for the comments. I have to push back on a couple. The plastic piping (silicone I believe) does not handle brew or steam water. They are low pressure returns to drip tray for items like OPV, group air bleed etc. Very common in espresso machines. The response of the pump to the paddle control is nearly instantaneous so not sure where you got that. Poor crema? First, crema is not a complete indication of quality - I've had terrible espresso from coffees that produce buckets of crema. Second, the shots pulled in this video were crema rich. Have a look at 1:00 and 4:00. Shots are 60ml with a solid 55ml+ of that crema. Again, crema isn't everything but you really couldn't have any more. Portafilters: Well, the single and double are angled with nice grips... not sure what the problem is with that. The handle on the bottomless does not match the others but it's setup so it rests perfectly on an Acaia weighing plate. The saturated group is wonderful for accurate and consistent brew temps - the real advantage of the machine is repeatable and consistent pressure profiling.
@@Wholelattelovepage Well to be honest, some people (me included) noticed a "delay" from when the paddle is shifted and the pressure value displayed. In fact, from what appear in the video it is not possible to appreciate slight variations in pressure seeing the values shown on the display, but only fairly large steps by 0.5-1 bar or more (a couple of times I saw 0.3 bar). I don't know if this is software-related (if so it SHOULD be addressed) or it is mechanical, I really do hope it's not because that would be a real problem and a pity.
@@Wholelattelovepage ...second thought after further study... I will have to totally agree with you - "The saturated group is wonderful for accurate and consistent brew temps - the real advantage of the machine is repeatable and consistent pressure profiling". Let me talk to my bank account and wife. If they talk back nicely, you'd be happy too. Sorry for my previous message.