Hey everyone, thanks for watching our Patreon Mailbag! We're currently saving up for some more filming equipment to be able to provide even higher quality videos, but we can't do it alone. If you'd like to help, please consider checking out our Patreon! I know we post about it here and there, but we do have a variety of rewards that would hopefully peak your interests.
Blood and Iron HEMA .. There a modern weapons called a gun. Modern bladed weapons and methods. Why make the efforts to master a style of the of fighting that is useless this day and age? It has no purpose besides recreation or historical value..
The answer you're looking for is in the question you asked. Its for recreation. Playing Football has no practical purpose, but people do it to have fun and get in shape. Who are you to say the way we have fun is wrong?
Redman A I think it happens in some specific cases. Such as two persons try to thrust their opponents at the same time , both of them will be easily hurt.
Hitting with the flat in Meyer's time had been in a sporting context - in germany they held so called Fechtschule - some kind of tournament between the members of different schools. It's more to show skill and dominance in a fight, which had to be save for all in a time without fencingmasks or any other protective gear...
As an old school SCA fighter you know why I dislike doubles (especially as you mentioned)? It means I have to refight again and I hate that. Imagine fighting in an SCA tourney, in the summer, in the Central Valley of California or in northern Nevada and doing it out in the sun. Now imagine that you screw up and let a double happen and thus have to go through all that rigamarol again. No bueno dude. Si?
Following on non-lethal techniques: the Spanish rapier system tends to use techniques called “Movimientos de Conclusión" (conclusion moves), basically techniques in which you don't have to kill your opponent, but they can't do anything to you
Instead of going all the way into the uncomfortable key guard, I can just do the same thrusting to disorient the opponent with a standard plow guard thrust. (Keeping your blade point towards the opponent and just moving your feet ahead) and then do the same Circle manuveur that was shown.
swing the "dagger" and shout "Stupefy" or "Petrificus Totalus" would work as a nice less lethal way... if you happen to be a wizard .. that dagger looked really like a wand
Very interesting. Do you happen to have more information on that first guard position? Other variations and maybe moves from that stance? Also which swords do you guys have? I have a synthetic practice right now but I want to transition to steel but am unsure what makes a good sword for sparring/tourney
I'm a short chap and what your describing is similar to how I use my Ochs In regards to the disrespecting the sword and safety simulation, why not have a score system that works upon reducing hit points, thus a skilled fighter has the most remaining points left as they have defended with skill and presumably would have the best chance of survival if the fight was real.
What you're describing would be arguably WORSE than fighting dummies who don't respect weapons in the current system. It basically works off of rapid-fire slugfests, when the first viable strike would likely disable the target. Plus, there's the old D&D meme: 'I can still do things if I only have one hitpoint'
sure, it was a 30second brainstorm, but the idea of "tap, now you stop all momentum and lose all desire to fight, despite your survival already been the determined and thus logically wanting to take me down purely out of vengeance." seems highly unrealistic as well. Sure you stabbed the chap, but he isn't dying instantly and your sword is currently wedged in his rib cage, he is likely to be pissed and will show this frustration with his weapon. When one has no plans of survival they become deadlier in some respects, instant death does not show this.
What you describe NOW is how SPORT fencing handles the issue. In most places at least, in HEMA we have this thing called an 'afterblow', where after hit the target makes one last attack to make sure the other person's still paying attention. To be fair though, going into shock from a serious slash wound is not unheard of, no matter how superficial it seems.
You know why this 'works'? Two reasons plus a directive. One - the blade is long enough that it slows things down (compared to a little pocket knife). You can use tactics such as saber fencing tactics. Two it prevents the common blade fantasy that you can do three or four actions on a single action by the opponent. The directive of the example is one of the modifiers. Tempo,. measure, distance, pressure or others. There is a clean, distinct application which is not false and can be easily demonstrated in real time.
This is a really great video, and a great idea to respond to Patreon questions. Very informative and enjoyable. One request: Can you read out the question as well as showing it written in the video? That would make the topic more clear, having the question and answer in the same mode of communication. (I found I was forgetting what the topic of the video was, probably from not focusing enough. Hearing you say the question would make it easier for lazy viewers like me.:) ) You could also flesh out the question a little if you want, to really set up the topic well. Thanks for another great video!
we should make it so both sides lose points if they get a double, and if only one of them hits they get points depending on the quality, of course this is just the raw idea, i dont know how it would be implemented, for example we'd maybe say that doubles are acceptable for non-lethal strikes such as the hands/arms or legs/feet, and if they get a lethal strike vs a non-lethal strike, they still get points but way less points, so id suggest that the best solution to make this work is to have higher scores, so for example if you hit a guy in the chest but get hit in the knee, you'd get 3 points or something, whereas if you didnt get hit youd get 10 points. but then you can see that the losing sides try and get doubles to have them get less points, so what i suggest is that the opponent that landed the non-lethal strike should also be punished, let's say -3 points, suddenly they start avoiding doubles and instead start accepting defeat. (for this to work the total score to win must also be raised quite high, im thinking like 100 points)
Do you speak german? Than I would suggest the 44A8 - it's the closest to Liechtenauer. If englisch is your preferred language than Jude Lew is almost the same and it contains the original language, and a translation to modern german and englisch... Even Fiore wrote, he had german masters before - so it should be a Base for italian fencing... 😉
With shield and sword or just single blade. If you're fighting thrust oriented weapons like rapier, quick parry-reposte is a basic move that works when you train it with speed. Voids and seated parries put your body out of danger momentarily so you can attack. You could just retreat, and your opponent might overextend themselves and break their form.
Personally, if I cannot trust my opponent to have control of their weapon, I just bind and grapple. If they just swing left and right, this is the easiest plane to intercept for a hard bind.
Advice from an amateur: While fighting someone who swings wildly, I've found that I can easily catch their sword with my crossguard and then move up to grapple them.
I'm currently working on a spear/staff/Halberd program at Blood and Iron. The main issue is what material to use for the shaft. If it's a full wooden one, the techniques work great on the opponent's weapon, but is *far* too dangerous to spar with at proper intensity (Particularly strikes) If we go to something like Rattan, or PBC, then the shaft is too floppy for the basic, core devices. Safe to spar with at intensity, but not really workable. Foam staffs with a fibreglass core started off great, but then we quickly realized that the material of the foam meant that the staffs "stick" to eachother, which do not work with how there are thrusts while controlling your opponent's weapon. With wood it would slide, with foam it does not. So still trying to find a good solution out there :)
I have a sort of unorthodox solution, Julian. Like.... it fits in perfectly with what you're looking for, and I use it daily for my own HEMA drills. More than my wasters. It's this 6' slender piece of some very light and durable wood that originally had awkward weight, but with the strategic application of duct-tape, it feels and handles like a spear, staff, and some types of polearms. Transfers between hands, grips, guards, and flourishes like a dream. The shaft itself has tapers on both ends; the narrow end tapers from about a foot from the thick end(very minor, maybe 1mm/5'), and the thick end itself is almost cone-shaped, flared and heavily tapered to the tip. Naturally, this thing is completely blunt, with rounded tips. The low density combined with its size renders this piece of wood easy to handle, but prone to fractures. That said, some duct-tape is handy for weight redistribution, and structural reinforcement. I find that placing the center of gravity 5% closer to the thicker end lends a fitting, versatile balance to the weapon. It's as makeshift as it can get, but I can draw the exact proportions, and maybe do a little science-y math, so as to give you an idea of what this is really like. Sometimes, the best solutions available are your own. Just thinking further on this: Can it bind realistically? Absolutely. It's wood. The duct-tape would reflect a smooth metal shaft. Can it be modified with a head attachment? Probably, but good luck figuring how to make that "not super-dangerous." Will it hurt someone wearing HEMA gear if you whack them over the head with it? Well, the type of wood lacks density, and loses some impact force with duct-tape, so I would presume it to be less dangerous than steel, blunted training swords. Where can we find this wood? I unfortunately don't know. Found it in a friend's garage, asked to take it, here I am.
2:08 The swords position and his bare feet make me anxious. I know the sword is probably dull, but the look is so authentic that it still makes me cringe...
So the key guard is a "Kamikaze" technique or it just doesn't get used due to training gear? Hitting someone with the flat in a self defense situation seems ridiculous. Hitting with the flat would seem to indicate you did not need and/or were not justified to draw the blade? Seems like pistol whipping which legally speaking is ALWAYS a bad idea.
The play from key guard is safe as long as the opponent actually feels threatened by a sword tip to the face. Unfortunately when wearing masks most people don't feel this threat. Imagine you get in an altercation with someone who is bigger, stronger, and unarmed. You have the options of: a) Fight at a severe disadvantage unarmed b) Smack them in the head extremely hard with the flat of a 3lb bar of steel c) Cut them down and be charged with murder. This has to be examined using historical laws and mindsets, our normal assumptions about what constitutes legal self defense don't apply.
The key guard thrust is just your standard provocation to get your opponent out of a good position. Meyer is all about that stuff. Just going for him with a straight attack is more of a kamikaze move.
+AKlover I don't get what you mean by "Kamikaze" technique. A straight thrust is very effective at maintaining the center line. From the center there is a lot you can do turn your attack into defense.
+Ranziel1 It depends on how you're going in with the attack. If it's a blind rush, then yes. But holding the center and interrupting the opponent simultaneously is not a suicidal move. It's just the opposite.
Hey everyone, thanks for watching our Patreon Mailbag!
We're currently saving up for some more filming equipment to be able to provide even higher quality videos, but we can't do it alone. If you'd like to help, please consider checking out our Patreon! I know we post about it here and there, but we do have a variety of rewards that would hopefully peak your interests.
Blood and Iron HEMA .. There a modern weapons called a gun. Modern bladed weapons and methods. Why make the efforts to master a style of the of fighting that is useless this day and age? It has no purpose besides recreation or historical value..
The answer you're looking for is in the question you asked. Its for recreation. Playing Football has no practical purpose, but people do it to have fun and get in shape. Who are you to say the way we have fun is wrong?
At 1:37 couldn't the guy on the right counter the rotation with a false edge strike to the belly?
You should be parrying with the "Flecht" per Meyer, etc. The poor fencer parries edge to edge. Use the flat
@@anthroplant3671 Yes, that would be my preference. Also because I can continue the winding if needed
I often wish we had a legit medieval survivor to teach us all those things first-hand.
if we did,he most likely would require human sacrifice to drink dry for his trouble
time traveler going to kidnap lichtenauer
"A double means both people die." The Seven Samurai" - duel scene.
But that wasn't actually a double
Redman A I think it happens in some specific cases. Such as two persons try to thrust their opponents at the same time , both of them will be easily hurt.
Note that a lot of people also overestimate modern medicine. Even casual sports, you get a lot of injuries that cannot be fully restored by medicine.
Absolutely!
you will for sure won't get out alive if you stabbed by an actual battle dagger even with today's medicine
@@royalecrafts6252 a guy survived being shot by a shotgun straight into his head blowing like 40% of his head off.
@@hugo-pg5tv good
@@royalecrafts6252 so I don't think being stabbed by a dagger is 100% fatal
Hitting with the flat in Meyer's time had been in a sporting context - in germany they held so called Fechtschule - some kind of tournament between the members of different schools. It's more to show skill and dominance in a fight, which had to be save for all in a time without fencingmasks or any other protective gear...
As an old school SCA fighter you know why I dislike doubles (especially as you mentioned)? It means I have to refight again and I hate that. Imagine fighting in an SCA tourney, in the summer, in the Central Valley of California or in northern Nevada and doing it out in the sun. Now imagine that you screw up and let a double happen and thus have to go through all that rigamarol again. No bueno dude. Si?
Following on non-lethal techniques: the Spanish rapier system tends to use techniques called “Movimientos de Conclusión" (conclusion moves), basically techniques in which you don't have to kill your opponent, but they can't do anything to you
Do u have any links or sources so we can see? That sounds interesting
But have you considered dodging back into a fully charged shoulderbash from the key guard
Love these videos guys. Keep up the great work!
Instead of going all the way into the uncomfortable key guard, I can just do the same thrusting to disorient the opponent with a standard plow guard thrust. (Keeping your blade point towards the opponent and just moving your feet ahead) and then do the same Circle manuveur that was shown.
Great video. Great format
swing the "dagger" and shout "Stupefy" or "Petrificus Totalus" would work as a nice less lethal way... if you happen to be a wizard .. that dagger looked really like a wand
nice vid, thx for sharing it
great video
Does anybody know where the swords used in this are from?
Very interesting. Do you happen to have more information on that first guard position? Other variations and maybe moves from that stance? Also which swords do you guys have? I have a synthetic practice right now but I want to transition to steel but am unsure what makes a good sword for sparring/tourney
I'm a short chap and what your describing is similar to how I use my Ochs
In regards to the disrespecting the sword and safety simulation, why not have a score system that works upon reducing hit points, thus a skilled fighter has the most remaining points left as they have defended with skill and presumably would have the best chance of survival if the fight was real.
What you're describing would be arguably WORSE than fighting dummies who don't respect weapons in the current system. It basically works off of rapid-fire slugfests, when the first viable strike would likely disable the target. Plus, there's the old D&D meme: 'I can still do things if I only have one hitpoint'
sure, it was a 30second brainstorm, but the idea of "tap, now you stop all momentum and lose all desire to fight, despite your survival already been the determined and thus logically wanting to take me down purely out of vengeance." seems highly unrealistic as well.
Sure you stabbed the chap, but he isn't dying instantly and your sword is currently wedged in his rib cage, he is likely to be pissed and will show this frustration with his weapon.
When one has no plans of survival they become deadlier in some respects, instant death does not show this.
What you describe NOW is how SPORT fencing handles the issue. In most places at least, in HEMA we have this thing called an 'afterblow', where after hit the target makes one last attack to make sure the other person's still paying attention.
To be fair though, going into shock from a serious slash wound is not unheard of, no matter how superficial it seems.
You know why this 'works'? Two reasons plus a directive. One - the blade is long enough that it slows things down (compared to a little pocket knife). You can use tactics such as saber fencing tactics.
Two it prevents the common blade fantasy that you can do three or four actions on a single action by the opponent.
The directive of the example is one of the modifiers. Tempo,. measure, distance, pressure or others. There is a clean, distinct application which is not false and can be easily demonstrated in real time.
This is a really great video, and a great idea to respond to Patreon questions. Very informative and enjoyable.
One request: Can you read out the question as well as showing it written in the video? That would make the topic more clear, having the question and answer in the same mode of communication. (I found I was forgetting what the topic of the video was, probably from not focusing enough. Hearing you say the question would make it easier for lazy viewers like me.:) ) You could also flesh out the question a little if you want, to really set up the topic well. Thanks for another great video!
Hi there, thanks for the suggestion! We're always looking for ways to improve our videos.
I'll bring it up for the next one of these we film :)
Where do you buy your training longswords?
we should make it so both sides lose points if they get a double, and if only one of them hits they get points depending on the quality, of course this is just the raw idea, i dont know how it would be implemented, for example we'd maybe say that doubles are acceptable for non-lethal strikes such as the hands/arms or legs/feet, and if they get a lethal strike vs a non-lethal strike, they still get points but way less points, so id suggest that the best solution to make this work is to have higher scores, so for example if you hit a guy in the chest but get hit in the knee, you'd get 3 points or something, whereas if you didnt get hit youd get 10 points. but then you can see that the losing sides try and get doubles to have them get less points, so what i suggest is that the opponent that landed the non-lethal strike should also be punished, let's say -3 points, suddenly they start avoiding doubles and instead start accepting defeat. (for this to work the total score to win must also be raised quite high, im thinking like 100 points)
What swords are those though.
Hey there! I do historical fencing and i was looking for some book or things like this for my training. Can you please give me some advice??
Do you speak german? Than I would suggest the 44A8 - it's the closest to Liechtenauer. If englisch is your preferred language than Jude Lew is almost the same and it contains the original language, and a translation to modern german and englisch...
Even Fiore wrote, he had german masters before - so it should be a Base for italian fencing... 😉
How to parry a thrust? I am having slight difficulties against all kinds of thrusts.
With shield and sword or just single blade. If you're fighting thrust oriented weapons like rapier, quick parry-reposte is a basic move that works when you train it with speed. Voids and seated parries put your body out of danger momentarily so you can attack. You could just retreat, and your opponent might overextend themselves and break their form.
if fighting with longsword, I find a krumphau to be effective. Also Fiore's boar's tooth works well. Another favorite is abscezan.
O shift response or
Oh shit response?
3:45 dudes ping spiked for a second there
If I am dealing with an inexperienced fighter and they swing left and right what can I do?
Elie Chan
Damn, my brother swings wildly and it is SO frustrating!
Personally, if I cannot trust my opponent to have control of their weapon, I just bind and grapple. If they just swing left and right, this is the easiest plane to intercept for a hard bind.
Advice from an amateur: While fighting someone who swings wildly, I've found that I can easily catch their sword with my crossguard and then move up to grapple them.
+Elie Chan
Use an opposition to move their weapon off-line while thrusting into them.
Inexperienced fighter's advice: get out his distance and when you get the chance, use a liechneauer technique
Do you give information about zweihander
Hey guys, I have a question. Are you guys also trained to use spears?
I'm currently working on a spear/staff/Halberd program at Blood and Iron. The main issue is what material to use for the shaft. If it's a full wooden one, the techniques work great on the opponent's weapon, but is *far* too dangerous to spar with at proper intensity (Particularly strikes)
If we go to something like Rattan, or PBC, then the shaft is too floppy for the basic, core devices. Safe to spar with at intensity, but not really workable.
Foam staffs with a fibreglass core started off great, but then we quickly realized that the material of the foam meant that the staffs "stick" to eachother, which do not work with how there are thrusts while controlling your opponent's weapon. With wood it would slide, with foam it does not.
So still trying to find a good solution out there :)
I have a sort of unorthodox solution, Julian. Like.... it fits in perfectly with what you're looking for, and I use it daily for my own HEMA drills. More than my wasters.
It's this 6' slender piece of some very light and durable wood that originally had awkward weight, but with the strategic application of duct-tape, it feels and handles like a spear, staff, and some types of polearms. Transfers between hands, grips, guards, and flourishes like a dream.
The shaft itself has tapers on both ends; the narrow end tapers from about a foot from the thick end(very minor, maybe 1mm/5'), and the thick end itself is almost cone-shaped, flared and heavily tapered to the tip. Naturally, this thing is completely blunt, with rounded tips.
The low density combined with its size renders this piece of wood easy to handle, but prone to fractures. That said, some duct-tape is handy for weight redistribution, and structural reinforcement. I find that placing the center of gravity 5% closer to the thicker end lends a fitting, versatile balance to the weapon.
It's as makeshift as it can get, but I can draw the exact proportions, and maybe do a little science-y math, so as to give you an idea of what this is really like. Sometimes, the best solutions available are your own.
Just thinking further on this: Can it bind realistically? Absolutely. It's wood. The duct-tape would reflect a smooth metal shaft. Can it be modified with a head attachment? Probably, but good luck figuring how to make that "not super-dangerous." Will it hurt someone wearing HEMA gear if you whack them over the head with it? Well, the type of wood lacks density, and loses some impact force with duct-tape, so I would presume it to be less dangerous than steel, blunted training swords. Where can we find this wood? I unfortunately don't know. Found it in a friend's garage, asked to take it, here I am.
Yeah man! Would always love to hear more suggestions
+sasukeuchiha998
One does not need to be trained to use a spear. To use it efficiently, yes. To use it at all? No.
Lindybeige!
Non lethal to me is thrust to the kneecaps or pommel strike in the face
2:08 The swords position and his bare feet make me anxious. I know the sword is probably dull, but the look is so authentic that it still makes me cringe...
На технику Катори Синто рю похоже)
Isn´t break the other persons arm lessleathal or am i to much of a modern military. No I want do It on friends.
So the key guard is a "Kamikaze" technique or it just doesn't get used due to training gear?
Hitting someone with the flat in a self defense situation seems ridiculous. Hitting with the flat would seem to indicate you did not need and/or were not justified to draw the blade? Seems like pistol whipping which legally speaking is ALWAYS a bad idea.
The play from key guard is safe as long as the opponent actually feels threatened by a sword tip to the face. Unfortunately when wearing masks most people don't feel this threat.
Imagine you get in an altercation with someone who is bigger, stronger, and unarmed. You have the options of:
a) Fight at a severe disadvantage unarmed
b) Smack them in the head extremely hard with the flat of a 3lb bar of steel
c) Cut them down and be charged with murder.
This has to be examined using historical laws and mindsets, our normal assumptions about what constitutes legal self defense don't apply.
The key guard thrust is just your standard provocation to get your opponent out of a good position. Meyer is all about that stuff. Just going for him with a straight attack is more of a kamikaze move.
+AKlover
I don't get what you mean by "Kamikaze" technique. A straight thrust is very effective at maintaining the center line. From the center there is a lot you can do turn your attack into defense.
+Ranziel1
It depends on how you're going in with the attack. If it's a blind rush, then yes. But holding the center and interrupting the opponent simultaneously is not a suicidal move. It's just the opposite.
Question is - are swords a good choice as a less than lethal police weapon? XD
Lee looks like Jesus Christ's hair possessed skall and got a dad bod.
LOCK HER UP?
too much talking...shorten bla bla and more practice-but maybe if this is just for your commercial purposes-then it is ok...