Serendipity! Glad you found it. I had to pull the original Part 1 since I wasn’t 100% satisfied with the narration at parts, but now the series is complete.
I looked at the recommended equipment. I bought the pump and accessories. The recommended TCP Global Commercial 2.5 Gallon (10 Liters) Spray Paint Pressure Pot with Manual Mixing Agitator is nowhere to be found. I found a similar 2-1/2 Gallon PRESSURE FEED PAINT POT TANK Spray Gun Sprayer Reg Air Mixing Agitator. Will it work?
It'll be a little different for Model M, especially if you have the two-part buttons (black button and beige snap-on cover). The zbutt system already has the stem/underside designed and printed in 3D, so you might have to do something similar for the IBM keys. As an alternative you could try making two part molds by pouring halfway for the top half, then covering the exposed silicone with petroleum jelly, then pouring into the key cavity. This way the silicone from each half wouldn't bind with the other part. Lastly you'd need to push a large hollow needle through to create sprue channels. This is TONS of work though... you're talking 208 separate castings for one keyboard. Now that's a labor of love.
Out of curiosity, why are you pressurizing the silicone vs. pulling vacuum on it and pouring? If I'm not mistaken, it isn't generally considered best practice to compress the silicone mold at this stage. There are various factors to consider, of course, pot/working time being one. If the durometer of the silicone is very flexible, putting air under pressure isn't going to remove bubbles, it'll just (duh) compress them. If your silicone is super flexible, once you take pressure off the mold, the bubbles can still return to atmospheric pressure, deforming the mold. Please feel free to correct me if I have that wrong. My understanding is that you'd use a vacuum chamber to pull bubbles out (you'd be surprised how many bubbles will still get past the thin stream technique), then pour. I've seen others pull vacuum again, but I think for the vast majority of cases that's a little "extra." Casting is generally done in the pressure pot. I could see arguments on why you'd cure your molds under pressure, but those would be weird circumstances like firmer molds with very fast pot times (no guaranteed time budget to pull vacuum a few times and then pour).
Great question! Pressure is a great option for those without a vacuum chamber, since a vacuum chamber is really only helpful for limited applications (certain types of resins, epoxies, etc and for encapsulations). So why pressure for silicone? Air bubbles can form in unpredictable areas within the silicone mold, and that becomes a huge problem when the non-pressure cured silicone compresses in unpredictable ways. What ends up happening is those air bubbles in the silicone get compressed and there are lumps and "warts" on the cast. Pressurizing the curing silicone and curing resin at equal pressures (I stick with 50psi) fully resolves this issue.
@@NG-ob2ry I understand, I think. However, for others' sake, I do want to reiterate that at regular atmosphere, the mold can ALSO deform - e.g. the existing (pressurized, and/or tiny-when-pressurized) air that's trapped in the mold will change shape when removed from the pressure pot. You'd have warts/lumps/bumps if you were to cast at atmospheric pressure (assuming the volume of air trapped in a/the bubble was significant enough to do so, and location, etc. etc.). Most people wouldn't DO this, but I could see cases where someone makes a mold and ships it to someone who doesn't have a pressure pot. They'd probably get poor surface accuracy in that case. The benefit of your approach is that you EXPECT deformation, and the argument is that since you're casting under pressure, once any trapped bubbles are compressed (at the same pressure you cured the mold in, preferably), the accuracy of the mold would return back to where it was cured - resulting in a properly formed cast. That part I can totally accept (even though there are esoteric problems that would cause this assumption to not be true, especially after wear and tear of the mold). So TL;DR: You choose one issue over the other: Trapped bubbles cured at atmosphere will deform when casting, so you cure under pressure. Trapped bubbles cured under pressure will deform the mold at atmosphere, which would have the overall same effect (just in reverse). You'd have convex dimples in case one, and you'd have convex dimples in case 2. The only reason I'm even expanding on this point (as if I were in a pressure pot, and now I'm not ;)) is that this is something to be aware about when molds change hands - the conditions in which the mold was made (or assumptions the user of the mold has) actually matters. It should also be noted that you shouldn't be very stingy on the resin when filling the cavity - if deformation is significant, the volume inside the mold cavity could change slightly - resulting in a slightly underfilled mold (this probably isn't going to affect people 95% of the time, but probably should still be mentioned...) Feel free to correct any of those assumptions if I got them wrong. To be fair, also - this is all second-order problems to have. We're both (presumably) talking about corner cases that won't affect everyone... AND we haven't even talked about vibrating/disturbing the mold-curing process to get bubbles to come out of solution.
@@diredesire yeah, if someone is ordering molds from someone else, they should specify pressure or no pressure when they're cured, just in case that becomes an issue. I haven't seen the reverse happen with divots from pressurized molds and unpressurized resin when I tried it, but crazier things have happened! The theme for all of casting should always be "your mileage may vary" :)
you recon I can skip the pressure pot as long as I am doing color cast (and be extra careful when pouring)? I live in an apartment, and getting one can be very difficult. perhaps, there is a lower viscosity silicon mix that I can get?
Yes you can! Longer pot life will help reduce bubbles too, since you can let it sit and bubbles will naturally rise up in your cup before pouring. Some makers will also brush resin in spots ahead of time so there aren't surface bubbles in your cast. You can get quiet air compressors that you can't hear from one room away, and there are baffles you can put on pressure pot release valves so it makes them more quiet (but not silent). So you do have some options for pressure pots too.
It is strange to think about... it's a pressure pot in the video. If it helps, here's the major difference and when to use: Pressure pot: squishes bubbles from every angle so they explode out into micro bubbles that aren't visible to the naked eye Vacuum chamber: pulls larger bubbles up to the surface and out As a general rule, I'll only use a vacuum chamber for crystal clear casts or encapsulations. And even then it's only a marginal improvement in the success rate. For everything else a pressure pot is plenty to get perfect casts. Hope this helps!
The sculpting base is its own thing, so you can put the clay on top for whatever you want the final keycap form to look like. It's a raised platform so it'll leave just the right amount of room inside to fit on a keyboard switch.
The advantage to using the sculpting base is you have more room for your design. If you put clay on a regular keycap and use the master base instead, the minimum amount of room is set by the blank key instead of the inside cavity, if that makes sense.
Hi there! Sorry for the delay, in case you didn't find them yet, choose your stem type (MX is most common), then key size (1U is the smallest key like the ESC key), and you'll have the files! There are some nice-to-haves like the nohassle container too. If you still get stuck you can always hop on the Discord server and ask too.
Thank you so much for all the information! I do have one question for you though - do you recommend a place to have the Z-Butt parts printed? I don't have a 3D printer, and I'm not sure of any local places that do 3D printing. Thanks again!
Where are you located? The Zappy link in the description is superb quality, but due to popularity it takes a few weeks to print and ship if you don't mind the wait.
Hi, brand spanking new here; I got a wild hair and want to make a gift for my work partner. @fiscalRascal could you comment on the compostablility of those resins? Really, Im just looking for better options for this resin than what I assume are the same plastics causing microplastics-not-deteriorating-problem we've got going on. I'd like to start there, if possible, before firmly committing! ... thank you so much for sharing your expertise!
Great video! You inspire many people!) I have a question. Is it enough to use a pressure pot for the silicon mold (of course for the plastic it’s the only way) ? Or do I need a vacuum? Thanks in advance.
Yes definitely go with the pressure pot first and see if you're still getting bubbles in your final casts. If 45-50psi doesn't remove all the bubbles in your resin, reach out here or in the Discord server and we can solve your issue pretty quickly.
Fiscal Rascal could you please help me. Every time I am using photopolimer plastic with Mold Star 30 it doesn’t cure. In the same box with the same pressure I have ABS master from my own key set - it makes a perfect mold! What am I doing wrong?
@@mytenore the particular plastic you're using must be inhibiting the silicone curing. The only way around that is by a slight coating of something (maybe a model spray paint?). I'd recommend paint over mold release since it's easier to see the color change in case you missed a spot.
They work too, I just prefer the zbutt ecosystem since it's a complete molding system in all sizes even up to full spacebars. And the price is right (free to download).
Glad to help! Nice name btw. My printer is a Photon S. I have the printing instructions pinned in the 3D Printing channel on the Discord server if you want to take a look.
John Paul Onza Check out monster clay, NSP/Chavant, or other oil-based firm sculpting clays. They hold details well, and can be frozen when you remove them from the silicone to preserve the original.
Exactly! Just sculpt, pour and let the silicone harden all the way, the toss the whole thing in the freezer for 30 minutes. Then when you pull your clay original, it should retain 95%+ of its features.
Holy crap what are the odds. I JUST found/watched your other stuff and was wondering where part 1 was, haha. Great stuff, keep it up!
Serendipity! Glad you found it.
I had to pull the original Part 1 since I wasn’t 100% satisfied with the narration at parts, but now the series is complete.
So the mold box does work good- but I do still have leaking in mine. It doesn't seem to actually be 100% airtight? Yours doesnt leak at all?
What is the material you used when you printed the Z butt system? PLA? Resin?
I looked at the recommended equipment. I bought the pump and accessories. The recommended TCP Global Commercial 2.5 Gallon (10 Liters) Spray Paint Pressure Pot with Manual Mixing Agitator is nowhere to be found.
I found a similar 2-1/2 Gallon PRESSURE FEED PAINT POT TANK Spray Gun Sprayer Reg Air Mixing Agitator. Will it work?
Can you go over the molding process for master keys? Thinking of doing a transparent set for the IBM model M and adding RGB.
It'll be a little different for Model M, especially if you have the two-part buttons (black button and beige snap-on cover). The zbutt system already has the stem/underside designed and printed in 3D, so you might have to do something similar for the IBM keys.
As an alternative you could try making two part molds by pouring halfway for the top half, then covering the exposed silicone with petroleum jelly, then pouring into the key cavity. This way the silicone from each half wouldn't bind with the other part. Lastly you'd need to push a large hollow needle through to create sprue channels. This is TONS of work though... you're talking 208 separate castings for one keyboard. Now that's a labor of love.
Out of curiosity, why are you pressurizing the silicone vs. pulling vacuum on it and pouring? If I'm not mistaken, it isn't generally considered best practice to compress the silicone mold at this stage. There are various factors to consider, of course, pot/working time being one. If the durometer of the silicone is very flexible, putting air under pressure isn't going to remove bubbles, it'll just (duh) compress them. If your silicone is super flexible, once you take pressure off the mold, the bubbles can still return to atmospheric pressure, deforming the mold. Please feel free to correct me if I have that wrong.
My understanding is that you'd use a vacuum chamber to pull bubbles out (you'd be surprised how many bubbles will still get past the thin stream technique), then pour. I've seen others pull vacuum again, but I think for the vast majority of cases that's a little "extra." Casting is generally done in the pressure pot. I could see arguments on why you'd cure your molds under pressure, but those would be weird circumstances like firmer molds with very fast pot times (no guaranteed time budget to pull vacuum a few times and then pour).
Great question! Pressure is a great option for those without a vacuum chamber, since a vacuum chamber is really only helpful for limited applications (certain types of resins, epoxies, etc and for encapsulations).
So why pressure for silicone? Air bubbles can form in unpredictable areas within the silicone mold, and that becomes a huge problem when the non-pressure cured silicone compresses in unpredictable ways. What ends up happening is those air bubbles in the silicone get compressed and there are lumps and "warts" on the cast.
Pressurizing the curing silicone and curing resin at equal pressures (I stick with 50psi) fully resolves this issue.
@@NG-ob2ry I understand, I think.
However, for others' sake, I do want to reiterate that at regular atmosphere, the mold can ALSO deform - e.g. the existing (pressurized, and/or tiny-when-pressurized) air that's trapped in the mold will change shape when removed from the pressure pot. You'd have warts/lumps/bumps if you were to cast at atmospheric pressure (assuming the volume of air trapped in a/the bubble was significant enough to do so, and location, etc. etc.). Most people wouldn't DO this, but I could see cases where someone makes a mold and ships it to someone who doesn't have a pressure pot. They'd probably get poor surface accuracy in that case.
The benefit of your approach is that you EXPECT deformation, and the argument is that since you're casting under pressure, once any trapped bubbles are compressed (at the same pressure you cured the mold in, preferably), the accuracy of the mold would return back to where it was cured - resulting in a properly formed cast. That part I can totally accept (even though there are esoteric problems that would cause this assumption to not be true, especially after wear and tear of the mold).
So TL;DR: You choose one issue over the other: Trapped bubbles cured at atmosphere will deform when casting, so you cure under pressure. Trapped bubbles cured under pressure will deform the mold at atmosphere, which would have the overall same effect (just in reverse). You'd have convex dimples in case one, and you'd have convex dimples in case 2.
The only reason I'm even expanding on this point (as if I were in a pressure pot, and now I'm not ;)) is that this is something to be aware about when molds change hands - the conditions in which the mold was made (or assumptions the user of the mold has) actually matters. It should also be noted that you shouldn't be very stingy on the resin when filling the cavity - if deformation is significant, the volume inside the mold cavity could change slightly - resulting in a slightly underfilled mold (this probably isn't going to affect people 95% of the time, but probably should still be mentioned...)
Feel free to correct any of those assumptions if I got them wrong. To be fair, also - this is all second-order problems to have. We're both (presumably) talking about corner cases that won't affect everyone... AND we haven't even talked about vibrating/disturbing the mold-curing process to get bubbles to come out of solution.
@@diredesire yeah, if someone is ordering molds from someone else, they should specify pressure or no pressure when they're cured, just in case that becomes an issue. I haven't seen the reverse happen with divots from pressurized molds and unpressurized resin when I tried it, but crazier things have happened!
The theme for all of casting should always be "your mileage may vary" :)
you recon I can skip the pressure pot as long as I am doing color cast (and be extra careful when pouring)? I live in an apartment, and getting one can be very difficult. perhaps, there is a lower viscosity silicon mix that I can get?
Yes you can! Longer pot life will help reduce bubbles too, since you can let it sit and bubbles will naturally rise up in your cup before pouring. Some makers will also brush resin in spots ahead of time so there aren't surface bubbles in your cast.
You can get quiet air compressors that you can't hear from one room away, and there are baffles you can put on pressure pot release valves so it makes them more quiet (but not silent). So you do have some options for pressure pots too.
@@NG-ob2ry thats awesome, thanks for being so informative
is that a pressure pot or a vacuum pot? I can't seem to wrap my head around how a pressure pot would remove the bubbles.
It is strange to think about... it's a pressure pot in the video. If it helps, here's the major difference and when to use:
Pressure pot: squishes bubbles from every angle so they explode out into micro bubbles that aren't visible to the naked eye
Vacuum chamber: pulls larger bubbles up to the surface and out
As a general rule, I'll only use a vacuum chamber for crystal clear casts or encapsulations. And even then it's only a marginal improvement in the success rate. For everything else a pressure pot is plenty to get perfect casts.
Hope this helps!
Do you need to apply mold release on the parts??
Hi! Would you be able to link me the piece at 0:33? I'm just a bit confused, is that just the sculpting base on top of the master base?
The sculpting base is its own thing, so you can put the clay on top for whatever you want the final keycap form to look like. It's a raised platform so it'll leave just the right amount of room inside to fit on a keyboard switch.
The advantage to using the sculpting base is you have more room for your design. If you put clay on a regular keycap and use the master base instead, the minimum amount of room is set by the blank key instead of the inside cavity, if that makes sense.
Late reply lol - He has a stem on his sculpting base, i havent seen it anywhere else but you dont really need it. Itll be fine without the "+" there
Can you send me the stl files of the products mentioned in this video series? There are too many files on the github site and I'm confused
Hi there! Sorry for the delay, in case you didn't find them yet, choose your stem type (MX is most common), then key size (1U is the smallest key like the ESC key), and you'll have the files! There are some nice-to-haves like the nohassle container too. If you still get stuck you can always hop on the Discord server and ask too.
Thank you so much for all the information! I do have one question for you though - do you recommend a place to have the Z-Butt parts printed? I don't have a 3D printer, and I'm not sure of any local places that do 3D printing. Thanks again!
Where are you located? The Zappy link in the description is superb quality, but due to popularity it takes a few weeks to print and ship if you don't mind the wait.
Hi, brand spanking new here; I got a wild hair and want to make a gift for my work partner. @fiscalRascal could you comment on the compostablility of those resins? Really, Im just looking for better options for this resin than what I assume are the same plastics causing microplastics-not-deteriorating-problem we've got going on. I'd like to start there, if possible, before firmly committing! ... thank you so much for sharing your expertise!
do you have to use a pressure pot?
I think if you want molds that are reliable, then probably yes. It just gets out all the extra little air bubbles in there.
Great video! You inspire many people!) I have a question. Is it enough to use a pressure pot for the silicon mold (of course for the plastic it’s the only way) ? Or do I need a vacuum? Thanks in advance.
Yes definitely go with the pressure pot first and see if you're still getting bubbles in your final casts. If 45-50psi doesn't remove all the bubbles in your resin, reach out here or in the Discord server and we can solve your issue pretty quickly.
Fiscal Rascal thanks a lot!!!
Fiscal Rascal could you please help me. Every time I am using photopolimer plastic with Mold Star 30 it doesn’t cure. In the same box with the same pressure I have ABS master from my own key set - it makes a perfect mold! What am I doing wrong?
@@mytenore the particular plastic you're using must be inhibiting the silicone curing. The only way around that is by a slight coating of something (maybe a model spray paint?). I'd recommend paint over mold release since it's easier to see the color change in case you missed a spot.
Fiscal Rascal thanks a lot for a quick reply! I will try!
What do you think about the l2k adapters?
They work too, I just prefer the zbutt ecosystem since it's a complete molding system in all sizes even up to full spacebars. And the price is right (free to download).
Thanks for this! What type of printer are you using?
Glad to help! Nice name btw.
My printer is a Photon S. I have the printing instructions pinned in the 3D Printing channel on the Discord server if you want to take a look.
What type of clay should I use when sculpting a master?
John Paul Onza Check out monster clay, NSP/Chavant, or other oil-based firm sculpting clays. They hold details well, and can be frozen when you remove them from the silicone to preserve the original.
@@NG-ob2ry I wouldn't need to bake them or anything right? Just sculpt away on the 3d-printed base and it's all good for casting?
Exactly! Just sculpt, pour and let the silicone harden all the way, the toss the whole thing in the freezer for 30 minutes. Then when you pull your clay original, it should retain 95%+ of its features.
do you know where i can get 3d files for the zbutt system?
They are on Thingiverse, just search "Z-butt"
github.com/imyownyear/Z-Butt
www.zappycappys.com/pages/z-butt