Is the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone, denied by all the cults?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- This clip is from our series "Interview with Dr. Walter Martin on Cults". This clip answers the question: Is the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone, denied by all the cults? Doesn't James 2 teach that a person must have faith and works in order to become a Christian? Does God justify us solely on the basis of our good wlrks or on a totally different basis? Does the Bible teach that we are justified by faith plus works, or by faith alone?
Salvation comes through FAITH:
Ephesians 2:8-9,"For it is by grace you have been SAVED, through FAITH--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God..."
Dr. Martin does a great job of summing up GOD'S GRACE. God's grace is the period. We are not authorized to replace it with a comma, or semi-colon.
If we are saved by GRACE, it is neither our faith, nor works that saved us. But God has given salvation to us as a GIFT.
So where does FAITH come in at, faith says that we believe that Jesus is God the Son, and has died for our sins.
thanks to God ...who worketh in us both to WILL and to DO of his good pleasure, Philippians 2:13.
The most difficult person for God to save is someone who has boughten into the gospel in this video. When evengelising to a worldly person, you present them the choice of taking up their cross and following jesus and have eternal life.
-but for someone who believes in this gospel, you have to present "take up your cross for something that you thought you already had, but did not realize meant giving up all the sins and worldly desires, and having faith that God will allways give you victory.
Thank you for posting this! God bless!
Purpose of Parables, and the Sower:
Matthew 13:23, "But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and UNDERSTANDS it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
Only those who God has called will UNDERSTAND the message. And because we are called by God, we WILL demonstrate our faith through works (fruit we bear).
Once Saved Always Saved:
John 10:28 "I GIVE them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand."
Salvation is not a reward! It's not pay, it's not wages! It is a GIFT that you don't earn by faithfulness or by any kind of works of your own.
Romans 11:29 "for God's GIFTS and his CALL are IRREVOCABLE."
-I'm not sure how this can be associated with a doctrine of the devil.
Those who have ear, hear and believe.
God Bless!
@Denemoore
These verses show completion.
Oh My!! "were washed", "were sanctified", "were justified" show FINISHED work.
So by your thinking, a man is not divorced from his wife, he's not really divorced; he's still married, he's just being dovroced daily.
Or, if a person is fired from a job; they're not really fired, they can come back and just be fired daily.
Use the comprehension skills we learned in 1st grade.
One reason people find it hard to believe what the late Walter martin is saying is that they do not understand the writings in the NT in its original language.
In English translations, one word can be used multiple times, BUT, when you study the Greek writing of that word. You learn that sometimes, the word is used JUST ONCE. The other occurrences of the SAME WORD has DIFFERENT meanings.
This is the case for words like "justified", "sanctified", and "saved".
@Denemoore Abraham was "justified" by faith:
Romans 4:1-5 "If Abraham was JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, he has something to brag about -but not before God. For what does the Scripture say?
Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed. But to the one who does not work, but BELIEVES on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness."
Pretty clear.
Once Saved Always Saved:
John 6:67-70 "Therefore Jesus said to the Twelve,“You don’t want to go away too, do you?” Simon Peter answered, “LORD, who will we go to? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to BELIEVE and know that You are the Holy One of God!” Jesus replied to them, “Didn’t I CHOOSE you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is the Devil!”
Salvation is GIVEN to those called by God/Jesus.
Purpose of Parables, and the Sower:
Matthew 13, we read that parables intended purpose was so people who rejected Christ continued in that belief.
Hard to understand? But that is what Jesus says, "but to them it HAS NOT been given".
The Sower Parable is based on the three types who REJECT Christ, and the ONLY ONE who has been called/believe.
The wayside, Thorny ground, and Stoney ground are those who reject and do not UNDERSTAND Christ Message.
Once Save Always Saved:
John 6:64-66 For Jesus KNEW from the BEGINNING those who would not believe and the one who would betray Him.He said, “This is why I told you that NO ONE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS IT IS GRANTED TO HIM BY THE FATHER” From that moment many of His disciples turned back and no longer accompanied Him.
Salvation DOES NOT depend on us. It is GIVEN BY GOD.
Purpose of Parables:
Matthew 13:10-13, " And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered and said to them, “Because IT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN... but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them (sinners) in parables.
Some are called, some are not called. Hard to believe?
Just make sure YOU are called and BELIEVE.
When ever Saint Paul was referring to the Jewish Religion having obligations of works according to the Law, he was referring to the outward acts of worship and respecting holy days and tithes.
He was also referring to circumcision. So these works is the gravamen that Paul was talking about , the Rituals of the Religious Tradition. Seeing Christ as the Fulfiller of all these Works of the Law, they are finished, but inwardly the works of conscience and repentance are required, not Faith "Alone"
Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice, in which we MUST BELIEVE:
He became the ultimate sacrifice, Isaiah 53:5 "... by his stripes we are healed", and Hebrews 10:10, "... we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
John 1:29, "... the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
Once Saved Always Saved:
Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or EFFORT, but on God's mercy.
Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also CALLED; whom He CALLED, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."
2 Thessalonians 2:13 "because from the beginning God CHOSE you to be SAVED through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
Ephesians 1:4 "He CHOSE US in Him before the foundation of the world".
@Denemoore
The Word of God:
Ephesians 1:4 "He CHOSE US in Him before the foundation of the world".
Pretty CLEAR!
Denemoore, your words do not matter.
Ankerberg knows the issue of faith and works is a bone of contention between the Protestants on one side and Catholics/E Orthodox on the other; some Prots may think we are cults but hey, we were here long before you guys showed up.
John 6:29 - NASB - Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Looking at this from a different angle, I believe this to be saying that it is the work of God to create the belief/faith in you. In other words, you do not 'choose' to believe. God chooses for you. He creates that faith in you. It is His work, not ours. It's His will, not ours.
@Denemoore
You say, "I disagree with the conclusion that works is to show our faith to man"
We are saved by Faith because we believe in Christ' Atonement. That happens ONCE.
But faith in God's Word, His promises, his commandments, his assginments to us; that's faith that DOESN'T SAVE US, but BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED, WE DO THESE THINGS.
Our believe is our faith.
What is faith?
Hebrews 11:1 "Now FAITH is the reality a of what IS hoped for, the proof of what is not seen. For our ancestors won God’s approval by it.
Some do NOT believe,or have this faith; therefore, they are not saved.
@jwrsob once you choose God he still judges you the same way as everyone else:
17. And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay herein fear;
Also there are so many verses like the following that use words like abide, overcome, patience of the saints
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He is revealed, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him in His coming.
@jwrsob Justification is not a one time event. It continues along with sanctification.
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
@ThomasWinkworth
Faith comes from GOD, not us. Galatians 5:22, "But the Fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, goodness, FAITHFULNESS, Gentleness, and Self-Control.
That's right. God gives us FAITH to believe in HIM through His Holy Spirit. Why? Because of HIS GRACE and LOVE.
Now that is truly UNDESERVED MERIT!!!
@Denemoore
--notice how we must "continue in the things we have learned if we want salvation.
13. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
14. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15. and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2Ti 3
@jwrsob I think you would be very interested in the fact that this phrase "you were sanctified" occurs ONLY ONCE in the New Testament:the word is hēgiasthēte.
--and sanctified occurs 17 times, always meantioned as part of our salvation. it is the process by which God literally makes us pure. Jesus died to sanctify us. he died not just to justify our sins but to literally take them away
1john 2: 5. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
@Denemoore
I think you would be very interested in the fact that this phrase "you were sanctified" occurs ONLY ONCE in the New Testament:the word is hēgiasthēte.
I think youwould be surprised that the word means exactly what I stated earlier, IT MEANS COMPLETION.
These words mean completion,not incompletion as if it needs to continue.
Look it up yourself.
You may need to refresh yourself with comprehension skills.
@Denemoore Still avoiding the question.
The phrase "were sanctified" occurs ONCE, according to the greek word ""hēgiasthēte",. This is the word defining the word "sanctified" in 1 Cor 6.
Stop avoiding looking it up, and look for yourself.
@rockstarcola100 I have said this before: at the risk of sounding "New Age" on the issue of "Jesus vs. Paul" I must say I get uncomfortable when I see so many discussions with Calvinists start off with, "As the Apostle Paul wrote. .." Sorry, but the Calvinists are not comfortable with the Gospels especially St. Matthew-which is probably why that is my favorite book of the NT with St. Luke #2.
@jwrsob
---What does our salvation hinge on? being chosen or those who endure temptation...
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
--who receives salvation, those who are chose or those who obey
Heb 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
@jwrsob There is no separation between having faith in Christ's atonement and having continual daily faith in God's ability to empower us to live righteous lives. Notice in John Ch 10, verse 27 indicates that our salvation is conditional upon us "following". Is "follow" a one time event, or continual"?
27. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. Joh 10
@jwrsob , no you have to understand what this verse means by comparing it with other scripture which states that God give every man a measure of faith. If your faith does not result in works, you lose what God gives you. HENCE the parable of the talents. If burry or not use that which God has given you, you lose the original gift "faith".
-this is why you need to start in the parables. learn to understand them first, then study the rest of the new testament
@Denemoore
You say "The choice is 100% yours".
The Word of God says...
Ephesians 2:8-10 "For you are SAVED by grace through FAITH, and this is NOT from yourselves; it is God’s GIFT - NOT FROM WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time u so that we should walk in them.
Now that's even more cleared .
Salvation is not from our works. It is a gift; it can not be earned.
The New Testament establishes that we are chosen- this is Grace.
The New Testament establishes that we must believe BEFORE we are baptized- this is Faith
The New Tseatament establishes that we must repent- this is our confession
The NTestablishes that we THEN are baptized. However, baptism is NOT needed for salvation. Since God does not violate His word, we see the proof of this with the criminal on the cross.
The criminal was saved because of his faith, no baptism was needed.
Faith must be received, or everyone would have it, but they do not.
Christ died to make salvation "available" to us. If you want to gain total clarity on how the gospel works, just start in the parable, then build the rest of your understanding on the foundation of the parables. the parables cannot be taken out of context, as paul's writing can be.
The parable of the sower indicates those "who received it with gladness" can be swept away by the cares of the world"
@jwrsob I already showed you that Joohn 10:27 says that verse 28 is conditional upon "following" something that is done on a daily basis. the new testament refers back to the example of Abraham who walked daily with God. Paul describes it as "running the race" not walking it. Paul then went on to state that if you don't run, you will lose your salvation. again you must CHOOSE to run.
So if salvations is granted from God,and NOT based on our WORKS,then how is it conditional on our following.
We follow because we are saved. We do not follow to become saved.
First, anyone claiming we are saved by baptism miises the gospel message totally.
I will use Gospel of John to show the process of salvation.
But before I do this I will make one clear point: God does not violate His word.
We are saved by hearing the word of truth, not by being baptized - John 4:42
Evrything centers around Grace and Faith for salvation first - John 6:29, 32-33, 44, 65, and 70
The bible said we are chosen BEFORE the foundation of the world.
@Denemoore
Please show where Paul says if we don't run we lose our salvation?
The Word of God:
John 10:9 I am the Gate; whoever enters through me WILL BE SAVED.
Notice, it does not say might or perhaps, the SCRIPTURE says "WILL BE SAVED".
Following Christ comes after we are saved.
Denemoore, your words do not matter.
@jwrsob because there is not difference between growth and salvation. Sanctification and justification cannot be separted.
1Cor 6:11. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
--When jesus said "ye must be born again" it was in reference to both sanctification and justification working together. Paul decided to separate the born again, into 2 aspects.
"Because it's singular you can't add something to it". I'm gonna take that with me :-)
@Denemoore
The Book of 1 John is about Christian conduct, NOT Salvation, it's about GROWTH
1 John 1:9 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. This is not about salvation. 1 John is about christian conduct.
Growth takes place AFTER one is already SAVED. Growth DOES NOT SAVE YOU.
Example: The Philippian Jailer:
Acts 16:30-31 "Sirs, what must I do to be SAVED?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you WILL BE SAVED..."
You fail to see that there is a difference between GROWTH and SALVATION (continue):
Growth or Sanctification is when your soul (heart, mind, and will) changes as it hears God’s Word.
-1 Thessalonians 4:3, “For this is the will of God, even your SANCTIFICATION, that ye should abstain from fornication:"
-1 Timothy 4:5, “For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."
Sanctify means "set apart for service", it follows our SALVATION; it involves DAILY living.
I disagree with the conclusion that works is to show our faith to man. If you look at every single miracle God performed in the old and new testament, it was not until someone's faith resulted in a small work. Whether it was Moses puting his staff in the Red sea, Naman dipping in the jordan 7 times, the paralytic having his friends lower him through the roof, the women with the bleed touching Jesus' robe, etc. Faith results in works. But if the faith does not result in works its not faith.
Very good insight, Polo.
@Denemoore
You say "The most difficult person for God to save is someone who has boughten into the gospel in this video".
The Word of God says "BELIEVE in the Lord... and you WILL be SAVED..."
So I'm curious, what do YOU believe leads to salvation?
You fail to see that there is a difference between GROWTH and SALVATION (continue):
Paul was CALLED ONCE:
Romans 1:1 "Paul a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle..."
It clear that we are called, or justified, ONCE.
It is also clear that we are sanctified continually.
Compare the words "justified" and "sanctified" in the Word of God; look up it's meaning from the original language, Greek.
If people fail to comprehend this, then let it be so.
God Bless!
@apologeticsman We do not all sin. We all HAVE sinned. You are misreading Romans. We are absolutely able to live righteously through Christ who strengthens us.
You fail to see that there is a difference between GROWTH and SALVATION (continue):
Justified is a ONE TIME EVENT. Sanctification is CONTINUAL.
- Romans 8:30 "And those He PREDESTINED, He called; those He CALLED, He JUSTIFIED; those He JUSTIFIED, He also GLORIFIED.
These refer to ONE TIME events. How can a person be predestined, or called, more than once?
JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION are NOT the same word,nor describes the same event.
That's Bible 101.
@Denemoore
You say, "When God gives you faith, it MUST result in works, otherwise you lose your faith and God cannot continue to give you more."
Ephesians 2:8-10 "For you are SAVED by GRACE through FAITH, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift - NOT FROM WORKS, so that no one can boast..."
So is this a scripture of the devil?
@jwrsob a few verses later paul adds this in reference to not running and compaires it with being chastened...
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Faith alone is just a way of trying to give lip service to God. True disciples of Jesus have been saved by grace from their sins to do the good works of God prepared BY God and worked in God and His grace. If we do not bear good fruit we are cut down and thrown into the fire and we will not be saved from the coming wrath.
Faith alone is not enough. It is *_through_* faith that we realize we must make a decision: to obey God and seek to do His will, or else to remain separate from God and continue on our own path. It is faith that makes the choice real to us, then we must choose. The verses below feature obedience, not "faith alone":
"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thessalonians 1:8)
Abraham's example illustrates the difference between "faith alone" and _believing:_ faith followed by obedience. Abraham was promised blessings if he would leave home and journey to the promised land. Without any faith, he would have shrugged off the promises as unreal and that would have been the end of the story.
But even with faith Abraham could have said to himself, "Well, even though I trust God's promises I'd really rather stay home, in my comfort zone, so I'm not leaving." Would he have received the promised blessings? Of course not.
Abraham *_obeyed._* He acted on his faith. He left home, journeyed to the promised land and received the blessings:
"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went" (Hebrews 11:8).
*_By_* or *_through_* faith he realized he had a real choice to make, and he *_chose to obey._* The Lord explained to Abraham's son Isaac that Abraham received the promised blessings because of his *_obedience:_*
"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws" (Genesis 26:5).
The apostle James wrote "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and *_not by faith only"_* (James 2:24). Abraham's obedience was his "works." He *_believed_* in the true, complete sense of the word _believe:_ he committed himself, he *_acted_* on his faith. In the source New Testament Greek texts, "faith" and "believe" are different words; "faith" (pistis) is a noun, "believe" (pisteuō) is a verb.
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:26). Faith without commitment, without action, is useless. Nothing changes. If Abraham had stayed home, his faith would have been dead, useless. Abraham acted on his faith; his works, his obedience brought life and completion to his faith, making him a believer. James wrote:
"Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God." (James 2:22,23)
So what does God want us to do today? How do we believe, how do we "act" on our faith? God "now commands all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30). That is how we can receive mercy:
"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13)
With the ransom Jesus made available on the cross, we can be redeemed from the death penalty (Romans 6:23) we have earned for our past sins. That redemption is mercy and is available by grace IF we'll choose to turn from sin, turn from sin that earned us the death penalty to begin with.
If we choose not to turn from sin, we'll remain unredeemed from the death penalty earned for our past sins and will surely perish in death for those sins. That's why Jesus warned, "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3,5).
At first glance "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" appears to contradict John 3:16 which says we have to believe in Him: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
If "believeth" means no more than "have faith," or think something is true, then there certainly *_is_* a contradiction with "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." But "believeth" goes beyond just "have faith." It is *_through_* faith that we realize we have a real choice to make: whether or not to believe, to commit ourselves and act and obey. We must truly "believe," we must act on our faith, obey and repent to avoid perishing.
You fail to see that there is a difference between GROWTH and SALVATION (continue):
-Romans 15:16, “That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”
Sanctification is a DAILY RENEWING.It does NOT involve SALVATION.
BEING JUSTIFIED IS the act of being SAVED. We are Justified once.
@jwrsob What does the word "believe" mean to you?
Do you believe in God to literally lay down your life to him as did all the writers of the new testament? Or do you think it just means saying you believe in him?
Unless you will give up everything, take up your cross and follow God's will no matter what, then, you cannot say you believe.
Do you agree?
@jwrsob both Abraham were "justified" by choices they made after they met God...
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22. Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
24. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
@jwrsob being called is meant in context for you receiving God's calling. The choice is 100% yours. God can only act on your choice. you have it completely backwards. Everyone's name is written in the book of life, it is our choice to have it "blotted out"
Beleive: means to believe God can overcome ALL the sin in my live. As God overcomes all sin, then this gives me the assurance of salvation, as why would God be purifying someone who is not walking with Him.
@Denemoore
You FAIL to realize the the SHEEP have already enter through the gate. They are already saved. They already belong to Jesus. The word says "enter and you WILL be SAVED.
It does NOT say follow and you will be saved.
Pretty clear.
@Denemoore
You say "By your interpretation of the scripture you are saying God chooses us and mind controls us to be his. now that my friend is the gospel of the anti Christ."
The Word of God says...
1 Corinthians 12:3 "Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed ," and no one can say,"Jesus is Lord," except BY THE HOLY SPIRIT."
Hebrews 13:21 "[He] equip you with everything good for DOING His WILL..."
I'm done!
God Bless!
@Denemoore
Born again is only connected to BELIEF. Show how those who are not sanctified is not under the grace of God.
@jwrsob -we are not judged till Jesus returns. Yes Jesus knows the end from the beginning but we do not presume to know. The bible makes no indication that we can presume we know.
Also what you are missing is that Jesus never did one single miracle unless our faith resulted in works. He did not part the sea till moses put his staff in the water, he did not heal namaan till he bathed 7 times, he did not heal the paralytic until his friends lowered him.
@jwrsob
--according to your belief the devil has not chance to tempt away those who are chosen, but the bible says...
1Pe 5:8 Be sensible and vigilant, because your adversary the Devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour;
@jwrsob you are really missing the point. The parables were for everyone which was why Jesus then went on to expound them to the disciples. The parables are requoted throughout Paul's writings. They make salvation crystal clear in that once saved always waved theology cannot be found in them. If you can't back your gospel from the parables, you essentiallhy cannot back your gospel. Hence it is the gospel of the anti christ which is gosepl ankenberg teaches.
Prove to how God's call is not a one time event, before the foundation of the world?
You keep saying "of the Devil", are these scriptures of the Devil:
Romans 9-24 "What if he did this to make the riches of His glory known to the objects of His mercy, WHOM HE PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR GLORY-
even US, WHOM HE ALSO CALLED, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles"
Amen
Denemoore, it's been great. You keep doing what you think is right. Pray that it is right.
See you, if, or when, I see you
God Bless!!
@Denemoore
I'm not going to look this up, but I want you to. Show me where the Bible includes being "born again" with being "sanctified?
And if that is how you read it so be it.
God Bless!
@ThomasWinkworth People do not send themselves to hell. God sends people to hell for sinning against Him. Hell is an eternal conscious punishment for sinning against an eternally Holy God.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY around baptism into Jesus Christ if you expect to be saved. -- WHY?
As you can see by the above scripture that baptism puts you in the church of Christ which is the body of Christ and Christ is the head of this body. If you are not in the church or in His body you will not be saved. Period!
Peter mentioned repentance because the people he was speaking to rejected Jesus & that is why they were asked to repent.
No talk of grace, faith, works or trust. Just get baptized!
@jwrsob oh dear... the faith is not yours, it is a gift from God for you choice to receive it. You do not deserve salvation, nor faith, but still God gives it to you if you choose it. When God gives you faith, it MUST result in works, otherwise you lose your faith and God cannot continue to give you more. This is why all the people in the bible had to act on their faith, or they would fall away.
@Denemoore
Total clarity in the Gospel in focused in Parables?
That is so wrong.
Purpose of Parables, and the Sower:
Matthew 13:10-13, " And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered and said to them, “Because IT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it HAS NOT been given... but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them (sinners) in parables.
@jwrsob if god gives faith to those who he chooses then what do you do with this verse that says he gave it to everyone?:
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
@jwrsob He calls us all. Some of those he calls will fall away when the cares of the world come, or when persecution arrises. Then those who do fall away will cling with itching ears to the gospel that this guy on the ankenberg show teaches. It tells them that they are saved anyways, and that to overcome the cares of the world or persecution is a works based religion.
Don't give up yet, i know its frustrating trying to defend the gospel of the anti-christ, but hang in there
@vinni906 Had they repented of their sin, Jesus would be faithful to forgive and cleanse them. But God makes no provision for unrepented sin.
@jwrsob So you are OK with contradicting verse against verse to support how you interpret this verse? I showed you a verse that says we must follow. Just because every verse and analogy in the bible does not remind us to follow or uses diffferent terminology, it does not mean you can use it to suit what you want. You have to take them all in harmony and context
@jwrsob you are then failing to understand the point of these verses. Just because they do not use the word salvation, does not mean they do not refer to salvation. Just because you lack discernment does not mean you can use it as a weapon to support your erroneus belief
1John 12:47 - All men including nonbelievers will ultimately be saved! Praise God, all done without Man's help!
keep reading 48-50!!!! God the father is going to judge those who here not the son at the end and cast them into hell alive there will be whaling and knashing of teeth.
Once Saved Always Saved:
The Disciples were CALLED, but not Judas. At least Judas was NOT CALLED for salvation.
John 17:12 "While I was with them (Disciples), I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been LOST except the ONE (Judas) doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled."
Judas wasn't called for salvation; therefore NEVER understood Jesus' message.
Jesus/God KNOWS who WILL accept HIS CALLING. Therefore, WHOEVER is CALLED WILL NOT BE LOST.
Every donomination wants to put their own twist to salvation just so they will be different from the church on the other corner of the street.
FOOLISHNESS!
Jesus said if anyone tried to get into the kingdom any other way is a thief and a robber. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom so follow his message -- EXACTLY as he spoke it. 3000 people baptized, added to the church and saved on one day.
You can NOT argue with truth, you will lose. In Romans 6 Paul explains the process of baptism.
@Denemoore
You say "By your interpretation of the scripture you are saying God chooses us and mind controls us to be his. now that my friend is the gospel of the anti christ.
The Word of God says...
Philippians 2:13 "for it is God who WORKS IN YOU to WILL and to ACT ACCORDING to HIS GOOD PURPOSE.
1 Corinthians 2:12-15 "We have NOT received the spirit of the world BUT THE SPIRIT IS FROM GOD, that WE may UNDERSTAND what God has freely given us (salvation)..."
Pretty clear.
@Denemoore
First,none of these verses have anything to do with salvation. You quote verses that do not even have the WORD SAVE in them.
Where as I show where Jesus, or Paul IS talking about SALVATION,by quotethe words SAVE, SALVATION,etc.
That's the Bible.
@jwrsob may you are not realizing what point I am proving wrong of yours. and that is that God gives faith to ONLY those who are saved. He gives faith to every single person on this earth. What will decide the lost from the saved are those who walk daily with the faith God has given them.
@jwrsob The problem with dialoging with someone of your belief is that your entire gospel is incorrect. it is based on 5 principal that are all not found in the bible. and not only that but the bible rebukes them. If I try to discuss one aspect of your belief, you will try to hold it up with the other pillars of your belief. In order for you to come to the truth you inevidably have to throw out your whole gospel and wipe the slate clean so you can learn the true gospel.
You fail to see that there is a difference between GROWTH and SALVATION.
We read in Luke 4, that Jesus is TEMPTED.
So, does He become the Son of God because He is tempted? Does He become the Son of God after He is tempted? Does He become the Son of God during the temptation?
Jesus IS the SON of GOD before the temptation. The Devil states in Luke 4:3 "If you are the Son of God..."
The Devil knows Jesus is the Christ.
@Denemoore You're not reading (there go those comprehension skills)
I gave you the greek word used to describe the were "sanctified", in 1 Cor 6. You didn't bother looking it up.
That word occurs ONCE.
Do not compare the english word to the greek word. Look up the greek word "hēgiasthēte", and demonstrate how many times it appears in the New Testament.
@jwrsob Sanctified only occurs once? I'm not interested in knowing that because :sanctify occurs 6 times and means "to make holy, purify, consecrate, be holy" Sanctified can refer to the completion of that process. you are argueing like a desparate lawyer.
@jwrsob yes they do. if you are not being sanctified, you cannot be justified. Your justification is DEPENDANT upon your sanctification. you can all it bible 101 all you want. its bible error 101. again, jesus just used the term, ye must be born again. this included both sanctification and justification.
You keep saying "of the Devil", are these scriptures of the Devil:
Romans 9-24 For the scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaim in all the earth."
Therefore, God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He HARDENS whom He wants to HARDEN.
One of you will say to me (Denemoore): "Then why does God still blames us? For who resists His will?"
#John Customer
What is your reply to this then.. since you believe all will be saved, only few will enter into life.
Matthew 7:13-14
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
ChristReigns7 Because most religions believe in works salvation. ALL other religions, and half of Christianity relies on works.
Chad Daniels
I don't know what kind of Christianity you know but the Bible teaches it is by faith alone we are saved and from that genuine faith comes out good works that provides evidence that we are saved. So good works does NOT save.
ChristReigns7 Yes brother!
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
What is the will of the father?
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
People think you have to be baptized, or live a sinless life before you can be saved. (Self-Righteousness)
For God so lived the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have eternal life.
Abraham believed God (The promise above) and it was counted to him as righteousness!
So happy to see another soul who denies works salvation.
Being Born again, produces Good works.
Faith = Salvation + works
or Faith - Works = Salvation
@jwrsob --you are supporting error with error. Everyone in the old and new testament was saved by grace. in this verse, Isaiah is saying he is saved by God's righteousness/grace.
10. I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. Isa 61
@Denemoore
I'm curious why are you referring to Exodus, while we live under GRACE?
@apologeticsman You are contradicting the very verses you are sharing. The verse does not say "If we say that we are not sinning, we make him a liar...", it says "If we say that we have not sinned". Do you see the past tense here? Then "...write I unto you, that ye sin not". But then you immediately say that anyone who sins not is a liar. And yet, its followed by "IF any man sin...", not "When a man sins...". Sin is an unexpected event for those who walk with Christ. If not, then repent.
@Denemoore
I'm curious how does Paul change "born again" from what the context in the Gospels?
So if we are baptized by baptism, then there is no need for a gospel message. Jesus came to preached to the lost, that they may BELIEVE.
So if people look at how the Gospels set everything up, they would see plainly the process of salvation: Grace-Faith-Repentance-Baptism.
You keep saying "of the Devil", are these scriptures of the Devil:
Romans 9-24 "NOT OF WORKS but by Him who calls- she was told, The older will serve the younger." Just as it is written: Jacob I loved but Esau I hated."
What shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
It does not, therefore, depend on man's effort, but on God's mercy.
@Denemoore What's your point?
@Denemoore
Again you fail to include the ENTIRE context of a Book.
You quote 1 Peter 2:17. But you DO NOT include quote from 1 Peter 1
1 Peter 1:1,2 "To God's elect... who have been CHOSEN according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father..."
1 Peter 1:8 "Though you have not seen Him, you love Him... you BELIEVE in Him...for you are receiving the goal of your FAITH, THE SALVATION of your souls.
Salvation comes first, is onetime. Sanctification follows for daily living, is continual.
@jwrsob we were washed, yes, but by your thinking being washed would then not connect with reality. Being washed means literally being a righteouss person. not being justified. The great error of the gospel you believe in is that you think that being righteouss is not a literal thing. "1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
---unless you practice righteousness you are not righteouss and God cannot justify you.
You say,"John Ch 10, verse 27 indicates that our salvation is conditional upon us "following". Is "follow" a one time event, or continual"?
This is incorrect;SALVATION IS NOT conditional on us following Christ.
You need to APPLY the correct context to each concept;this is the context of SALVATION:
John 10:8-9 All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever ENTERS through me will be SAVED.
"Entering" is a one time activity.