Sunday driver is something a lot of us thought would be a free point when we started before we quickly found out it was a nuisance. Great way to get trapped and die as well if you end up in the mud.
Funny story about thick/thin-skinned. These traits always had people who felt strongly about them. Many swore by thick-skinned protection while others swore by the extra 8 points gained from thin. Going from thick to thin is a difference of 16 points after all and many said there was no noticeable difference in protection. One day someone in the community looked into the game code for the two traits to determine exactly how much of a difference they made mathematically. In the code it was discovered that the effects of the two perks were swapped. Thin gave protection and thick made you more vulnerable. This was quickly fixed but for so long people argued over which was better, protection or points, and yet the effect was so small that noone even noticed that the effects were swapped. Ever since I've seen thin-skinned as free points. If anyone tells you it makes a difference remember that people said the exact same thing when the effects were swapped.
This kinda reminds me of when riot released a patch for league of legends that nerfed a character. and the community was in uproar and the win rate for that character was massively down. Except they never actually released the patch, just the patch notes. Makes me wonder how often we as players jump to conclusions and end up being super wrong
9:40 They said they won't be removing the usage of maps from Illiterate, but you won't be able to read any text or written annotations on them - your character will instead see random gibberish
What makes the Sunday driver trait truly awful isn't the speed cap. I could live with that. It's the massive reduction in power. Makes it almost impossible to tow anything, and going off road dangerous. Makes either clearing road block or going around them a real pain, all for a pathetic amount of points.
I agree with most of it. Every time I pick the “unlucky” perk, I start the game off surrounded by zombies and sometimes the house is already on fire. Happened several times in a row too. Depending on your reaction to the situation, it’s an instant death pit before things get going. I play with instant transmission via saliva. Always fun for a quick laugh while frantically trying to escape.
I used to exclusively play with the deaf trait when I first got the game because my pc didn't have a working headphone port, but now that i've upgaded my pc and played more, i can't imagine playing without sound. It's really a 'you dont know what you're missing' situation
Sunday driver is horrible for a number of reasons: 1) You're just so slow 2) Because you're so slow, you always have your gear at max power (more gas consumed) 3) You can't tow anything 4) You can get stuck in a horde or on the side of the muddy road
@KoNitzThe7th The increase to being spotted is miniscule because they seek you fifty or more (I cen't remember exactly) times per half second, so even if 95% of the times you're hidden, it only takes one time to spot you in that half a second. They then track you, so basically, they'll see you no matter what if you're in their fov.
Yeah I watched someone, maybe retanaru who did testing with it on and off. It was impossible to tell when it was on. They spotted and started tracking almost immediately no matter what
the noise generated by clumsy is negligible, but when i first started playing and picked that thinking it would be fine, i instantly got ripped to shreds not by zombies but literally trying to jump fences or randomly tripping around zombies. i'd say clumsy is almost better for slower, sneakier characters as it puts you in more danger if you go guns blazing rather than sneaking. also, big keen hearing fan, especially because i like to play a little more aggressively than i should, and the perception radius is really, really nice. you literally almost never have to check behind you if you're already aware you're being pursued, and your flank is so safe with it
Conspicuous can probably go into S tier. The way PZ does spot checks currently makes it an irrelevant negative trait. I'd probably push Sunday Driver to C - it is terrible but it's not "deaf terrible"
Nice! I didn't even see you were doing that all negative run! My algorithm is wack I guess. Now I know to check it out! Oh and sunday driver is absolutely F tier just for the reduced towing ability from the acceleration nerf
I pretty much agree with all of these (except Sunday driver, which I think is probably B or C). Personally, I think the ideal is to have all or most of them cluster in the A,B,C range. There are a few mods that help with this. I like Water Goes Bad to make High Thirst a bit more tough. It is probably still S tier, but you can feel it a bit on occasion. Also, I believe there is a Hearing Aid mod that (iirc) turns deafness to the low hearing (but, I think you can lose it, and it takes batteries to maintain). I haven't played with it (yet), but I'm optimistic that it can make deafness closer to C tier. I honestly think traits like Smoker should just be, like, 1 point (or even 0 if there are enough positive benefits to it. It feels like there could be a new series of traits--idk, call them 'characteristics' that have both positive and negative effects and that are 0 points). There is a literacy mod (actually 2) that is less severe when it comes to illiteracy (or, at least one of them is supposed to be). The skill is like strength and fitness where it starts at 5 for most people. At 0 (illiteracy), you can still read, but it's really so (so I understand). I don't know, seems like it's worth trying out.
The hemophobia trait is free points for me when taken together with smoker. At least for me the points (+12 including smoker iirc) outweigh the cost of having the wash regularly.
I think the only placement on this list I particularly disagree with is clumsy. The extra footstep noise is absolutely a non-issue, but the extra trip chance is hugely inconvenient and potentially lethal if you get a bad thigh scrape from a failed vault over a fence midfight.
Hard to disagree with any choices, might add a few more A tier choices to my next playthrough just to be different. How about Groundhog Day with Max Loserman? Even more days building fences!
Man I keep dying early ;-; Also what do I have to do to build the necessary tools to survive once power and water goes out? How will I even be able to walk inside houses when there is no light anymore???
it's not really that dark inside during the day time, you'll be fine on that front. I mostly just keep looting to keep my weapons/tools up. As long as you're actively looting you'll be hard pressed to run out of the things you need.
before stuff gets shut off, you need carpentry books to get lvl4 carpentry and build rain collector barrels (or lvl7 to build improved barrels), you also need to bring a generator to your base (and maybe a 2nd one to a gas station), read "how to use generators" and stock up on gas
Everyone says Smoker is free points but the first time I did it, I didn't find cigarettes for WEEKS and I have zero idea how. Constant anxiety was just destroying me. Never again.
Based on the comments not pointing it out, pacifist shouldn’t be in A-tier. It’s a common misconception that fast learner and pacifist basically cancel each other out. The order in which the game multiplies the numbers of FL and pacifist, it’s actually _worse_ . Pacifist is -25% but fast learner makes all weapon skills (including maintenance!!) turn into around -33%. Take one or the other. C-tier for me or if you’re playing a character that wants to level maintenance over the long term, pacific with FL is F-tier.
@@cromulentarcher Small correction to my math. I tried drafting a comment explaining the math behind FL + Pacifist but it’s hard to explain. The numbers I spitballed are nowhere near accurate but the general sentiment of my comment imo holds true, though! I’d like to plug PZ scientist extraordinaire, Retanaru’s 5min video on Pacifist on how it works. TL;DW: Order of operations. No traits = 5xp. With FL = 6.5xp. FL + Pacifist = 4.875xp. So -25% & +30% doesn’t equal a net +5%. Order of operations makes it closer to -3%. After studying on this overcomplicated math, pacifist + FL is probably closer to B-tier with how important maintenance is. Or you’re correct in A-tier if you don’t mind grinding a bit of maintenance xp which is fairly simple to do in your first week or so to counteract an important negative aspect of Pacifist. Thanks for reading!
I will say, 5 minutes in, I will say besides gameplay mechanics, I'm pretty sure there are disabled players of project zomboid. Always kinda disappointing to hear people talk about traits/disabilities (without those aforementioned disabilities/abled) as if there aren't players who have those IRL. This is mostly in reference to 'other people/players' comment who play with sound off. Deaf people exist, you know?
It's true I wasn't thinking of real deaf people while talking about this. That may have been callous of me and I'm sorry for it. My comment about some people playing with the sound off was a spur of the moment thought about the argument I might get against where I ranked the trait.
Sunday driver is something a lot of us thought would be a free point when we started before we quickly found out it was a nuisance. Great way to get trapped and die as well if you end up in the mud.
It's just like when spiffo said "press Q for the zombie cure"
Funny story about thick/thin-skinned. These traits always had people who felt strongly about them. Many swore by thick-skinned protection while others swore by the extra 8 points gained from thin. Going from thick to thin is a difference of 16 points after all and many said there was no noticeable difference in protection. One day someone in the community looked into the game code for the two traits to determine exactly how much of a difference they made mathematically. In the code it was discovered that the effects of the two perks were swapped. Thin gave protection and thick made you more vulnerable. This was quickly fixed but for so long people argued over which was better, protection or points, and yet the effect was so small that noone even noticed that the effects were swapped. Ever since I've seen thin-skinned as free points. If anyone tells you it makes a difference remember that people said the exact same thing when the effects were swapped.
This kinda reminds me of when riot released a patch for league of legends that nerfed a character. and the community was in uproar and the win rate for that character was massively down. Except they never actually released the patch, just the patch notes.
Makes me wonder how often we as players jump to conclusions and end up being super wrong
9:40 They said they won't be removing the usage of maps from Illiterate, but you won't be able to read any text or written annotations on them - your character will instead see random gibberish
What makes the Sunday driver trait truly awful isn't the speed cap. I could live with that. It's the massive reduction in power. Makes it almost impossible to tow anything, and going off road dangerous. Makes either clearing road block or going around them a real pain, all for a pathetic amount of points.
Free points if you never drive
I agree with most of it. Every time I pick the “unlucky” perk, I start the game off surrounded by zombies and sometimes the house is already on fire. Happened several times in a row too. Depending on your reaction to the situation, it’s an instant death pit before things get going. I play with instant transmission via saliva. Always fun for a quick laugh while frantically trying to escape.
Nah man, just the kentucky experience
I used to exclusively play with the deaf trait when I first got the game because my pc didn't have a working headphone port, but now that i've upgaded my pc and played more, i can't imagine playing without sound. It's really a 'you dont know what you're missing' situation
Sunday driver is horrible for a number of reasons:
1) You're just so slow
2) Because you're so slow, you always have your gear at max power (more gas consumed)
3) You can't tow anything
4) You can get stuck in a horde or on the side of the muddy road
Conspicuous is free points in any situations because of how spotting works.
@KoNitzThe7th The increase to being spotted is miniscule because they seek you fifty or more (I cen't remember exactly) times per half second, so even if 95% of the times you're hidden, it only takes one time to spot you in that half a second. They then track you, so basically, they'll see you no matter what if you're in their fov.
Yeah I watched someone, maybe retanaru who did testing with it on and off. It was impossible to tell when it was on. They spotted and started tracking almost immediately no matter what
If anything it’s a positive trait cause it makes it easier to lure zombies away from bigger hordes
4k hours and I agree with this list 100%
Imagine they added an "immune" trait on april fools and it does nothing
I remember you made a gas station base in rosewood many years ago in the one painful year challenge run. Fun times
Thank you so much for all the explanation my friend, this really help me a lot :D
the noise generated by clumsy is negligible, but when i first started playing and picked that thinking it would be fine, i instantly got ripped to shreds not by zombies but literally trying to jump fences or randomly tripping around zombies. i'd say clumsy is almost better for slower, sneakier characters as it puts you in more danger if you go guns blazing rather than sneaking. also, big keen hearing fan, especially because i like to play a little more aggressively than i should, and the perception radius is really, really nice. you literally almost never have to check behind you if you're already aware you're being pursued, and your flank is so safe with it
Conspicuous can probably go into S tier. The way PZ does spot checks currently makes it an irrelevant negative trait.
I'd probably push Sunday Driver to C - it is terrible but it's not "deaf terrible"
Nice! I didn't even see you were doing that all negative run! My algorithm is wack I guess. Now I know to check it out! Oh and sunday driver is absolutely F tier just for the reduced towing ability from the acceleration nerf
Really enjoying the Max Loserman series! 👏👏👏
To make Think Skinned S Tier, Just walk through trees and bushes in combat stance. Boom!! You'll never get evil dead by a tree again in b41
Lol. Lmao even
I pretty much agree with all of these (except Sunday driver, which I think is probably B or C). Personally, I think the ideal is to have all or most of them cluster in the A,B,C range. There are a few mods that help with this. I like Water Goes Bad to make High Thirst a bit more tough. It is probably still S tier, but you can feel it a bit on occasion.
Also, I believe there is a Hearing Aid mod that (iirc) turns deafness to the low hearing (but, I think you can lose it, and it takes batteries to maintain). I haven't played with it (yet), but I'm optimistic that it can make deafness closer to C tier.
I honestly think traits like Smoker should just be, like, 1 point (or even 0 if there are enough positive benefits to it. It feels like there could be a new series of traits--idk, call them 'characteristics' that have both positive and negative effects and that are 0 points).
There is a literacy mod (actually 2) that is less severe when it comes to illiteracy (or, at least one of them is supposed to be). The skill is like strength and fitness where it starts at 5 for most people. At 0 (illiteracy), you can still read, but it's really so (so I understand). I don't know, seems like it's worth trying out.
I always like to roleplay my characters, I have my cowardly teenage kid, Izzy, fish catcher extraordinaire
the playstyle hemophobic puts you into is something I'll do either way so for me it's basically free points
Yeah, I'm always washing my clothes in this game. I love how you can just wash and wear and they dry on your body lol.
The hemophobia trait is free points for me when taken together with smoker. At least for me the points (+12 including smoker iirc) outweigh the cost of having the wash regularly.
How is unfit worse than asthmatic? You can't overcome being asthmatic. Its forever.
I think the only placement on this list I particularly disagree with is clumsy. The extra footstep noise is absolutely a non-issue, but the extra trip chance is hugely inconvenient and potentially lethal if you get a bad thigh scrape from a failed vault over a fence midfight.
Hard to disagree with any choices, might add a few more A tier choices to my next playthrough just to be different. How about Groundhog Day with Max Loserman? Even more days building fences!
Man I keep dying early ;-;
Also what do I have to do to build the necessary tools to survive once power and water goes out?
How will I even be able to walk inside houses when there is no light anymore???
it's not really that dark inside during the day time, you'll be fine on that front. I mostly just keep looting to keep my weapons/tools up. As long as you're actively looting you'll be hard pressed to run out of the things you need.
before stuff gets shut off, you need carpentry books to get lvl4 carpentry and build rain collector barrels (or lvl7 to build improved barrels), you also need to bring a generator to your base (and maybe a 2nd one to a gas station), read "how to use generators" and stock up on gas
Now I'm waiting for the ranking of positive traits 👍
Everyone says Smoker is free points but the first time I did it, I didn't find cigarettes for WEEKS and I have zero idea how. Constant anxiety was just destroying me. Never again.
Best place to find cigarettes is the stores attached to gas station. Also be sure to check every zombie, they drop them semi-regularly.
Search the glove boxes of cars, that’s what I’ve been doing at least
use the smokers delight mod and smoker
Here’s some engagement 👍🏾
Hard of hearing is S tier since not only does it not do anything it also adds zombie horde migration feature to the game
I mostly just can't stand the muffled sound effects while playing
you should do tier list with the best positive traits pretty sure theres alot no one ever uses since they dont know if its useful or not.
Looks like we go to the same hair stylist 😉
God's haircut
@@Not_that_Brian_Jones I like to think of mine as a solar panel for a sex machine. 😆
for pvp, thick skin is a must
I hate that the traits have a meta but it would’ve happened no matter what.
You said 'Deadzo'.
Just wanted to amplify that. 14:29
You're wrong if you don't think that I think you're right. No, wait...
nice! thank you
Based on the comments not pointing it out, pacifist shouldn’t be in A-tier. It’s a common misconception that fast learner and pacifist basically cancel each other out. The order in which the game multiplies the numbers of FL and pacifist, it’s actually _worse_ . Pacifist is -25% but fast learner makes all weapon skills (including maintenance!!) turn into around -33%. Take one or the other. C-tier for me or if you’re playing a character that wants to level maintenance over the long term, pacific with FL is F-tier.
Good info, thanks!
@@cromulentarcher Small correction to my math. I tried drafting a comment explaining the math behind FL + Pacifist but it’s hard to explain. The numbers I spitballed are nowhere near accurate but the general sentiment of my comment imo holds true, though! I’d like to plug PZ scientist extraordinaire, Retanaru’s 5min video on Pacifist on how it works. TL;DW: Order of operations. No traits = 5xp. With FL = 6.5xp. FL + Pacifist = 4.875xp. So -25% & +30% doesn’t equal a net +5%. Order of operations makes it closer to -3%. After studying on this overcomplicated math, pacifist + FL is probably closer to B-tier with how important maintenance is. Or you’re correct in A-tier if you don’t mind grinding a bit of maintenance xp which is fairly simple to do in your first week or so to counteract an important negative aspect of Pacifist. Thanks for reading!
Thanks # needed this.
WAIT YOU HAVE A HUMAN FACE? I thought you were a cat /j
I know, I'm disappointed too!
bro look like that one randomize zomboid character
P😊
I will say, 5 minutes in, I will say besides gameplay mechanics, I'm pretty sure there are disabled players of project zomboid. Always kinda disappointing to hear people talk about traits/disabilities (without those aforementioned disabilities/abled) as if there aren't players who have those IRL. This is mostly in reference to 'other people/players' comment who play with sound off. Deaf people exist, you know?
While I can understand where you're coming from, I also can't help but think that you're taking it in bad faith.
It's true I wasn't thinking of real deaf people while talking about this. That may have been callous of me and I'm sorry for it. My comment about some people playing with the sound off was a spur of the moment thought about the argument I might get against where I ranked the trait.
Crom literally said people DO play with the sound off, but he doesn't. wtf is wrong with that? 4:45
@@cromulentarcher You're too kind mate.
@@themudpit621no such thing ;)