Jazz Guitar Students: Stop Practicing Improvisation! Learn licks!
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- Опубликовано: 18 мар 2022
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We should hook up and do a video on this. It's such an obvious thing to those of us who have transcribed 1000 solos, but students are SO resistant to the idea of learning licks. It doesn't matter if I show them a lick... then show them Parker playing that same lick 20 times.... and then 20 OTHER players playing the same lick. It's vocabulary. We don't invent words when we speak, we use language that people understand. I've expressed this sentiment 100 times, and every time I do, it's different. I'm improvising how I want to express the idea. But each time it's made up of words. Not random letters. Not running up and down the alphabet. Learn the vocab, it will improve your improvisation skills.
And your idea of melodic cells is the gold. Students resist the idea because to them a "lick" is what Jam Track Central sell you 20 of. A lick is 16 bars.... they're yet to really "get" that a lick is more likely to be 2 BEATS. I liken it to lego bricks. When I play long runs, I'm just stitching melodies together. That's the bop tradition, it really isn't up for debate haha
Vocabulary takes a long time to build up. When I was in conservatory our professors preached “guys, concentrate on learning tunes and worry about shredding ( soloing)later”. If you know tunes tunes you get soloing snippets from the melody and you get used to the form etc. Then you can apply the rest of the stuff and hopefully end up free to express yourself. Gypsy jazz has been a big help because you only need another person playing the changes.
Let’s do it, i’m super passionate about this topic hahaha
Well said Levi!
Daniel Barenboim said similar things....don't practice scales play music.
100% agree, really nice that you compare it to learning a language because that is what jazz "improvisation" is. If you would never learn licks or would never study great phrases and lines you will sound like a robot mindlessly running up a down a scale or arpeggio.
Denis before Wes transformed himself into Wes he played gigs using only memorized Charlie Christian solos which he transcribed! So he definitely had a compositional, long-form mind set.
"If I tell someone to practice bebop lines but they don't like those lines, then I think they're not worth practicing, honestly".
Well said, maestro!
Gracias!
Ha sido una valiosa información para mí práctica y motivación en este momento...hace tiempo que tengo la sensación de no ir hacia ningún lado con mi violín y está visión de estudio me parece súper interesante.
Abrazos desde Gran Canarias!
Great chat Denis. Most important busting the myth of pure spontaneity which held back my learning for decades and only changed when I bored myself to death.
Appreciating that in-depth perspective!
That’s a great tip and video to start learning jazz. Thank you! I will keep this in mind in my journey to learn the jazz language.
This is refreshing yo hear this especially from you motivates me
Wow! What an incredible message. When I think of all the lessons I have taken, and RUclips Videos I have watched, that have missed these essential ideas, I despair! But now I know and can start again!! Thank you!!
Thanks Denis. Yes, be specific on what you like, and only practise what you love.
This was wonderful!
This is exactly the lesson I needed in my development. It reaffirms the path I'm on currently which is transcribing Martijn van Iterson stuff from DC Music school. As I do it, I find repetition in phrases and rhythmic devices, chord moves, etc. This doesn't diminish from his genius ability but proves your point. And, slowly I start to put the pieces together. With the limited time I have to practice it might take me 5 more years to become "fluent" but now I'm convinced that I'll get there. Thanks for your valuable lessons!
Nailed it. Been trying to figure out a way to learn how to improvise for years, I came to the same conclusion. Your words are so reassuring and show me I’m finally on the right path. Thanks!
This makes so much sense. As an aside, its supported by research into educational psychology too ... I currently edit educational books for a living. A book I'm currently editing is to a great extent about the fact that the emotions we experience as we learn - or to put it another way, how our limbic system tags sensory information - is central to what we pay attention to, and how much, or even if, we remember it. Its making the argument that students emotions and mind state should be a central consideration in designing the environments and relationships that structure education, but I see the relevance to what you are saying here. Identify the things you care about and use them to direct your learning. You will literally learn them better.
Merci Denis, j'espère que ça aura autant d'impact sur ma progression que ton autre vidéo, où tu parlais du "all talk, no walk" 👍
Merci Denis pour tes vidéos qui m'ont beaucoup aidé quand j'ai commencé il y a longtemps. Ce que tu expliques dans cette vidéo, c'est exactement la même pédagogie que Samy Daussat avec qui j'ai beaucoup appris aussi. Jouer dans un style aussi codifié que le jazz manouche ou le bebop, ça demande du vocabulaire.
thanks, very helpful!
learning a lot from your practical harmony for jazz guitar vol 1 thank you Denis
Thank you!!
One of the geatest video about this subject !
BRAVO 👏 👏 👏
Thank you for this Denis ❤🎶! So many musicians have been screwed up by the approach "jazz scales" "jazz modes", "what scale should i play on this chord". Without any connection with music ! Like saying "learn the alphabet and you will be able to write poetry" !!!
very nice 😎❤🎸👌
I like the way you think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and...............Play !!!!
I agree.. I couldn't improvise at all on the guitar even if I can sing Jazzy lines.
You need to at least learn the basic lego blocks in order to put the lego pieces together, some of the blocks have a "main trunk" (melodies and chord voicings) and there are many variations of the same basic idea, it is very useful to be aware of those main trunks.
Also very useful to try on play solos without metronome (besides practicing with backing track) to make your music richer and lyrical. You don't make everything on the spot, that's impossible without motor practice, you put blocks on the spot and throw a few new adlibs on the spot to make it fresh but you mainly play it safe. Otherwise is a disaster.
Now after learning and listening mainly to Gypsy Jazz I can hear way better music in my head than I did 8 years ago.
Also, while analyzing it is important you know which chord you're playing, it is NOT important to know the key (chord root note) but is important to know the chord type and function.
Mentally it goes like this: There is a primary fast branch filter that knows/deducts if the next chord is either Major, Minor, Maj7th, Min7th (you need to know your songs progression by ear and by practicing pompe)... then in the moment you can decide which lick you wanna play from the given chord. That process must be fast and you need to think the least possible.
As you play you basic lick you can throw variations, as you do the variation, depending on the complexity of it your brain is free or not to think about the next chord, the more you do the more automatic it gets.
At a certain point through years of practice you know your preferred trunk licks and their variations and as you play them automatically you're already thinking about the next chord, its nature and the next block you wanna use, if you don't feel ready you can play super safe and simple on the next chord, and while you do that you free resources in your brain to prepare a cool lick next.
So in a sense improvisation is more like "realtime sequencing learned phrases/licks/chops" rather than improvising every single note. The more words (licks) you know the more elaborated your discurse is, also a lot more fun.
As for Django....he had such a deep understanding on what he was doing. At the same time, I'm not sure if he played songs radically different each concert or he prepared them as for example Stochelo prepares them. I would say Bireli, Moignard, Bergara, Giniaux, Gresset are truly free and throw radically different solos, you can even see them throw a risky move that sometimes shines and sometimes goes off key in a bad way but who cares, players like to have fun and listeners like and appreciate surprise, even if sometimes is a trainwreck (I've seen Bireli many times nodding with his head in displease but nobody cares).
BTW: I recently got a WoodTone Amp for a slight reverb in my D hole SelMac and it is so COOL is really hard to put the guitar down and is also sad to play dry now.
Greeting to you and Christiaan. Both are doing a great job!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Great comment.
Wow perfect! Play what you like! Duh ! We complicate so many things
Great, inspiring thoughts Denis! I just watched your latest video that suggested to see this one. So glad I did! One of my takeaways is practice like a “genius” or as Hal Galper says, “ if you can hear it you can have it” (BTW I have previously bought a few of your DC courses) Keep up your work, it is truly inspirational ! 🙏💡
31:23 - 🎶 I'm not the kind of girl who gives up just like that. 🎶
I hear it! 😂
Damn it Dennis I'm surprised RUclips hasn't banned you for being too smart. Not only are you an expert on everything but you have the most thoughtful and incisive commentary on everything. And I'm starting to think I like the way you accent the word "develop" better than the accepted accentuation. LOL and by the way, somewhere along the line you became a monster guitar player
learn jazz vocabulary: great point -- learn the words and phrases before trying to play the sentences.
Great video. I think the title is a bit misleading, but the video itself is great.
Thanks Dennis I think in many ways you have confirmed a suspicion that I have been thinking about for a few years now about improvisation
Makes sense
I'm confused this video says practcie licks..and I see the another video by you that says Stop practcing jazz licks
Ik kan mijn linker wijsvinger niet meer gebruiken door belesures dus ik ben nu na 2 jaar gedwongen met 3 vingers te spelen, gelukkig kan ik veel apergio blues en Django Reinhard nummers spelen maar sommige dingen moet ik van begin weer leren, ik speel 30 jaar gitaar dus mijn mijn gitaar ken ik , ironisch genoeg, Django Reinhard had ook maar 3 vingers dus veel van ( zijn akkoorden) kan ik gelukkig spelen, en dus ook zijn muziek al kom ik natuurlijk nooit in de buurt van zijn kunnen, wou dit delen voor mensen met vinger blessures er is hoop maar je moet wel doorzetten en je kunt weer improviseren
Methinks that ALL levels need to constantly work on learning more vocabulary through deep listening. One aspect that you hinted at, is that spoken and musical language--especially jazz--is RHYTHM dependent. Whenever many talk about bebop and Charlie Parker, they get hung up on the notes. When you learn Parker's vocabulary, you also learn his rhythmic concept. People, such as Steve Coleman, agree that Charlie Parker's genius wasn't so much in his sense of harmony--it was how his unique interplay of rhythm and note choice. I am finally breaking free of the "strong notes on strong beats" prison--as Parker's rhythmic-melodic vocabulary is much deeper and more nuanced than that. Once again, you learn the rhythm by listening extra carefully. Getting the rhythm, the pulse, as well as the notes. Practicing rote scales and arpeggios doesn't get you into that nuance of rhythm. Parker had his rhythm, Dexter had his, Dizzy, and even Django. Can't forget that rhythmic concept that we learn from vocabulary. P.S., I am still working on integrating the gyspy picking technique into my bebop playing. Keep staring at my picking hand palm ;) Thanks Denis!
Fully agree. I've worked on internalising Django's melodic rhythms after transcribing his solos and using that as a vehicle for developing improvisations.
The part that Wes plays is the horn line in "Splanky" played by the Count Basie Orchestra. Thanks for the great videos as always Denis!
Thnx!!! I’m so bad at titles and stuff like that hahaha
32:08 : waltz for debby-bill evans
yes! man i 'm so bad with titles hahahah
one size doesn't fit all ; I go for diversified approaches and choose the best method that works for you , you might end up learning bunch of licks but how do you connect them to make a musical and original statement that tells a story ….
👏👏
Man, I can improvise in so many different accents on a keyboard instrument, but I can't even seem to do a "kid singing in opera voice" version of Gypsy jazz. We're born playing the blues here🇺🇲, but we're like a deer in the headlights of GJ. Never mind a deep understanding, and it's a much worse situation for me on guitar! And I've heard plenty of accordionistas and even pianists, but the pianos aren't usually tuned for GJ. That's supposed to be a joke... What I mean is, like in Joscho's latest upload, there's a piano but the player doesn't seem to have a Gypsy accent. And that's usually how it is (not too many caravan pianos?), so there aren't many examples to follow. Which is tough, because this is one style where I seem to need examples to follow. I'd have expected portable arranger keyboards would have caught on by now, but no. Nary even a keytar. So, mostly I try in vain to play this style on guitar.
Since I just can't seem to get in the GJ door the easy way, I'm doing what you say, copying licks and practicing in the context of specific songs. Especially on guitar, which I'm not that familiar with - it's a slog. No progress worth sharing yet, and I'm pretty loose and willing to upload less than perfect explorations. But there's just no progress worth reporting, at this point. Actually it's been more fun trying to figure out Grapelli or Tcha violin language on slide guitar and ribbon controller synth. Which would go over at a jam like a fart in church, so that doesn't really count as practice towards successfully jamming on guitar in a group full of traditionalists.
IOW, GJ isn't just a new accent or style of playing for me, but a new paradigm - a whole different way to practice. More goal oriented, licks oriented and song oriented (though I've gone thru song learning phases, lately besides GJ, my "practice" has been mostly improvisation of every aspect including the form itself. So this is a great way to switch that up, even though it's slow going).
TL;DR
This seems to be the video for long-form confessional style ramblings in the comments, and when in Rome...
Sounds like a line from Esquivel ...
Maybe those players that say never play licks, just create everything on the spot from scratch are not counting the transcribing they did, where they played what they transcribed, which was licks, and practiced the harder/faster parts so they could play the transcription up to tempo. That was years ago for them, so they're not playing licks (they think) because they've forgotten about it. But they did practice those licks and they became part of their vocabulary. It's true, they didn't practice them (as licks) recently. As you point out, this seem like a necessary step that cannot be skipped.
Like asking a great orator to teach a toddler how to speak: "don't practice words and phrases, create an oratory from scratch" Yes, that's the goal, but they can no longer describe the low-level initial steps to get there.
I agree with you. I wonder what songs you might recommend as providing a beginning grammar or vocabulary for jazz guitar?
I think that is very difficult to answer because it depends on how you define jazz guitar. Different people will have different ideas, and also different people are able to absorb certain things easier than others. I think it's about finding what you like and then figuring out what you think you might be able to absorb relatively quickly... Once you start to absorb small chunks, and you continue that way, it will develop your instincts, and you will be gradually able to understand more difficult chunks. That was the case for me. In the beginning, bebop made no sense to me, I had no idea how to analyze what I heard, so I started with easier stuff from Django Reinhardt and Gypsy Jazz and then swing music. All that helped me to learn how to properly hear the bebop language
@@DenisChangMusic Your reply is helpful. Find what you like; find something you like that you can absorb; and start to learn the "grammar" or "vocabulary" of the song lines. For me, that probably means going back to Charlie Christian and/or Django. Thanks!
So if we dont like our guitar teachers playing so much , should I get a new one? 😆
waltz for debby
octave thing
Oof called out 😂 lol better learn some more melodies and licks
Also something i think advanced musicians have a problem with no longer listening to a wide range of genre and im guilty of this and i think thats essential to developing and adding to vocabulary and tbh you dont speak the same way as an adult ehen u was a kid or teenager? Food for thought
Learning things is overrated. It's better to just be great automatically without ever trying. That's my approach.
It is indeed better to be just great
Lol- yah we all wish
What does that mean?
@@foxybrown2 a joke
Nope do practice improvisation don’t practice “licks”!
Ｐｒⓞм𝕠𝕤𝐌 💋