The one thing I don’t like about these games is that in certain scenes lines aren’t adapted to the choices you made previous. John says you steered him wrong and gave him bad advice because giving him bad advice is presented as the best choice in previous chapters but if you didn’t take it he just looks like he’s blaming you for nothing. This happens in many different places.
That problem was extremely evident last season, with the Harvey Dent problem. No matter what you do, even if you don’t turn him into Two-Face, he still acts like it. Why give people a choice if it changes nothing except a few lines and the way some things look
@@edgeofablade6236 I think the first season establishes that he turned into Two Face because of Lady Arkham's serum. If that's the case, it makes sense why he'd be Two Face regardless of how Bruce treats him.
Bloom It’s telling you don’t eat at Batman’s steakhouse. The steak always comes out burnt, the butler only has one eye and the owner won’t stop talking about his dead parents.
I love the vigilante opinion!!! I like the villain too but I think that develop Batman more, while this develops the Joker more! My advice is, if you're a fan of Batman/Bruce Wanye , pick the villain, if you're a fan of Joker pick the vigilante! Thanks for doing this game-I loved it more than Walking Dead seasons 2&3 (Walking Dead season 1 will always be my love)
To me walking dead was good at first but then it just started beign repetitive and the story was nothing good to me these games like the wolf amongs us season 1 tales from the borderlands and game of thrones and mostly i hate the original minecraft game but i really liked both of the Seasons they had a really good story and on al of these other games the places changed al the time when in the walking dead didnt and did play the original batman games and hated them but both seasons were a masterpiece like minecraft wolf amongs us game of thrones and tales from the borderlands when walking dead sucks al telltale games will always be in my heart expect for walking dead rip telltale games rip minecraft story mode season 1 2 and maybe a third season and rip wolf amongs us season 2 and rip game of thrones season 2
I feel like if you pick villain joker it’s just the joker sure he still kind of cares about Bruce but still almost gets him killed a lot of the time and the telltale series seems to really take one character and change their role in the game Vicky being a villain Bruce’s parents being mobsters Harley just being Harley by her own choice so I like the vigilante more because it expands on this new universe telltale created
Zerocrash Murilo wasn’t that like, sky bound or something and they just bought the license for the last season of The Walking Dead? And they were just finishing that out?
It's more like John was invited in by Harley since she saw potential in him from the time as psychiatrist in Arkham before being relocated to Blackgate. And John really wanted his buddy Bruce to run with him and his friends, so he pressed Harley to invite him. And then Harley saw an opportunity and made a one-sided decision to invite Bruce in instead of disposing of him, based on everyone else's reactions. You don't let your imagination run wild for the sake of more nitpicks, mate) X)
Also, I don’t think the Riddler necessarily wanted to target Batman but he was a threat that had to be dealt with. When the guy says he picked a feud with him, Batman didn’t leave him any choice. Batman attempted to get Riddler arrested when he attacked Mori, then tracked down his hideout through John, and found information about where Riddler was through Mori (which was also because of John). Riddler literally had the agents in death cages when Batman arrived, so it didn’t seem like his target had changed but moreso he wanted Batman out of the way so he could deal with the Agency. And had it not been for Batman passing the box onto Lucius, he likely would’ve succeeded with no one left to stop him
32:00 I think she got to the conclusion that riddler killed her father because at the funeral she asked Bruce if it was the disk that killed her father
I always love your Telltale episodes. I wished you covered both Vigilante and Villain Joker routes, but you mentioned the villain path near the end so I'm pleased.
That implication of John sending someone to kill Bruce, I think it's just a coincidence. The guy still attacks even if you go to the conference as Batman. Come to think of it, he looks like one of Penguin's goons.
It actually feels really clever to have a riddle based on death when Mori's name is latin for mortal. Or death... Aaaaand I just heard myself say that. Disregard. Great video.
Troy Baker does do a amesome joker and in my opinion troy baker's telltale Batman portrayal is my favorite Batman portrayal of all time and heath ledger does a good joker but I think Anthony Ingruber joker is better
29:44 - One sin I noticed during the game: If Alfred came in the Batmobile to originally get to that scene, which is odd enough of a notion, how did he get home?
I imagine Bruce Wayne is rich enough to send a driver to pick up Alfred and drive him home, or like Gordon days later in the game it’s easy to imagine Batman would have a bunch of citizen allies that regularly help him out; one of them coming to pick up Alfred and bring him home seems like an easy favor to ask.
I have nothing but respect for Dartigan. He's funny and he points out things that the average human eye/mind can't catch. I can't argue with his points and I know I certainly couldn't pick out these sins. Hats off to you Dartigan
11:42 Actually you can piece together what happened based solely on dialogue of this episode. Basically when John was in Arkham he only trusted three people Leland, Bruce and Harley (Former doctor) so when he got out, he looked for the latter one. At that time the pact was only forming and Harley decided to take him in because she realized that she could get him to do anything for free, no questions asked. Sometime after, the Riddler died causing the pact to need the phalanx key and the emp for the plan to work. Harley knew for sure that Bruce had these things, so she, along with freeze and Bane, decided to get him to bring them those items just to kill him later (John was fully aware of this). At some point John should have mentioned that he knew Bruce, so they sent him to look for Bruce with the promise that he was going to join the pact and that if he made a good impression they wouldn’t kill him. The only reason why Bruce could actually join and wasn’t killed was because he was the only one who could use the emp. Harley herself said that she changed her mind about killing him. Eventually all the members of the pact changed their minds and they let him join for real.
16:23 Harley proved that she is just as capable of doing things on her own and also very dangerous when she robbed that bank and Gordon says that his officers or/and the remaining agents that were at the scene were unable to detain her.
Maris Grablevskis I'd assume it's a given that we will (YAY), but considering TWAU and TFTB haven't had a season 2, I'm trying not to get too excited for it.
My vote is for God of War. On a side note: I'd like a sin to be placed on the first three GoW games for one thing. The GODS aren't suppose to have the same blood as mortals, they bled golden Ichor. Ichor originates in Greek mythology, where it is the ethereal fluid that is the Greek gods' blood, sometimes said to retain the qualities of the immortal's food and drink, ambrosia and nectar. Great demigods and heroes occasionally attacked gods and released ichor, but gods rarely did so to each other in Homeric myth. It was also believed that it was toxic to mortals, killing them instantly. Those with Ichor, including gods, Titans, and some monsters are near-perfect beings who, in battle, can be wounded, but never permanently killed, or in the case of gods and Titans, can never be killed at all. Demigods also share their godly parent's ichor in their veins infused with their human blood, however it cannot be seen, and it does not make them immortal. Sorry if this came off as ranting, I'm just really big on Greek lore and that detail always annoyed the hell out of me. Mostly because Kratos would be killed himself each time he killed a God and that would make for a short game.
It was toxic to mortals, so I think the level of God in a demi-god matters in this. In the cases of heroes like Heracles, son of Zeus and born of mortal woman, Ichor would kill him. But in the case of Dionysus, a son of Zeus and the only God born from a mortal mother, no it wouldn't kill him.
21:42 funny thing is, they actually are In the Arkham Series: It takes hundreds of strikes to take down Bane It takes high strategic planning to take down Freeze But just a simple smash-through-the-glass to take down Harley
So Tiffany Fox is wearing a shirt that looks like it came straight out of my college. Even has the same color and same initials. I legit thought she was in fact wearing a Grand Canyon University shirt until I remembered the live in Gotham... Gotham City University -_-
I think if there is a 3rd game, the give up Alfred option may be permanent. Look at The Dark Knight Rises. Alfred leaves and doesn't come back until Bruce 'dies'.
Like I said before working for Amanda Waller is a death sentence, she's the definition of a horrible boss who treat her employees like disposable cups.
Here's all my Catwoman choices in both seasons. In season 1, I tried to kiss her after the bar fight with Penguin's thugs, and saved her instead of Harvey at the debate. I slept with Selina, and after refusing to attack Harvey the next morning, I regarded Selina as more than a thief in the final episode. In season 2, I said redemption's possible at Riddler's workshop, warned Catwoman the cops were after her, and after kissing her on top of the Mayor's office, invited her to the batcave where we kissed again. After taking the fall for the laptop theft to save her, I let Catwoman help me fight the Pact. Having picked Joker's Villian path, I gave Selina the key to free us, kept my finger up when she read "never have I ever used a friend", and had Waller clear her criminal record.
You know I have to give Telltale props. Even though some of their limitations with the writing are clearly present, they have branched out in certain areas with the Batman games that I've considered buying these games. Still if you've listened to Alfed's speech you can tell there might be trouble going forward. Considering that he gives you the whole Batman creates villains schtick even if you've done everything to avoid people getting hurt and the results of not intervening as Batman would have resulted in a *destroyed city* without your actions. His accusations that you're becoming like Thomas come off as even more hollow. All this being said, as much as I like the Bruce Wayne stuff, it is just a stupid idea what they did with it this season. Daritgan hit most of the points, but how about the simple fact that Bruce is now known by several criminals as someone who ran with a criminal gang and runs around committing crimes in the same, easily identifiable outfit. This is modern day right? Where everyone practically has at least one camera on their phones? So many people have dirt on him without resorting to his secret identity. If they *did* resort to their secret identity there's at least 2 people who have no reason to keep quiet if you piss them off. I liked the John stuff this season, but it came at the cost of the suspension of disbelief. Yes, a franchise running off of a rich man who dresses like a bat to fight crime, finally broke the suspension of disbelief. Then there's Tiffany...... They kinda ruined her character with that finale.
Alfred’s whole idea and speech about “Batman creates more problems than he solves” is actually pretty similar to Harvey becoming Two-Face regardless of your choice - it has considerably greater weight depending on your choices and how the story played out. Like, if you’d egged on Harvey and John into their more villainous options, made choices that resulted in bad or unfavorable outcomes and generally played Bats like he was being written by Frank Millar, then Alfred’s concerns are entirely justified, well thought out and incisive. If, like me, you played Batman as if he were a human being capable of opening up and showing compassion, and didn’t make bad choices, it comes across as the PTSD talking.
I feel like I'm rare to hate on this game, seeing the comments in videos. I think the first game was much better writing wise. Harley contradicted herself in every other sentence - couldn't be just because of my choices. I feel like she was written to be played a certain way and I picked no right options. All Waller ever told me was "You got friends here. But if you don't do as I say you will HAVE it! Remember, I'm on your side." How am I supposed to feel attached to characters who flip-flop like this? There were too many villains in one plot and 900 deus ex machinas, many of which you showed. Then in the end Alfred thinks Bruce is rotten to the core (who _would_ want him to stay after mocking Bruce, his efforts and his lifestyle like that? I played a nice Batman and felt it was very uncalled for. It sounded like Bruce already was a corrupt waste of a human - what were all those lovely bonding moments, just a joke to Alfred if he felt Bruce was a failure from the start? Thanks for saying something.) and after all that, his last words are "There's some lasagna in the fridge." What a mess. There's good stuff though, all the action gameplay, John/Joker, Selina and Batcave scenes. I'm angry, just finished the game and needed to vent.
Considering that now Telltale games is closed, the ending to this season could mean it's the actual ending to the story, and could stay like that for alot longer, making the decision even more difficult to make knowing that. Removing one sin. (We will have to wait and see if we get another season if some other developer buys the rights
Even for the shortcomings... it was still a better plot build than some of the recent big budget DC films. The Telltale employees did a great job, even when they were overworked, and then let go when Telltale tanked. Many people think that the guy who did the voice-over acting for the Joker (Anthony Ingruber) in the Telltale Series, should have played Han Solo, given his role in Adeline as Harrison Ford's younger self ... and Ingruber's RUclips impersonations.
You've never seen automatic hinge doors? The town I grew up in had a bunch of them - mostly retrofit from manual hinge doors in areas where sliding doors wouldn't work, but they do exist.
Lowkey happy that even with all these legitimate flaws pointed out about this game I still find it to be one of my favorite Batman stories. Not to mention probably my favorite Batman suit just behind the Battinson one
Biggest sin for me Is not giving Batman and Catwoman's relationship closure I know It's optional but It feels canon like part of the story and they feel like genuine soulmates their final scene together does not give closure I really wanted to see them get together so unsatisfying
Guns either have a hammer and pin or a striker Harley has 2 arms to swing that hammer Last season, Joker already said he knew Bruce was Batman, so Harley doesn't have to ask why Bruce knows about all the traps, and storywise, Bane finds out Batman is Bruce as well. Someone could've and most likely DID tell her. Missed a possible sin for Riddler's eye not being rotted out Bruce is fueld by rage (been there before, you have to force yourself to sleep), Bruce also microsleeps, hence him being Bruce by day and Batman by night until morning. John is Bruce's friend, psychological tactic attempting to get more bees with honey than vinegar. As a friend, Bruce might be more open with John At one point, Batman said (in a comic, not the game) that Harley is more of a threat without the Joker than with him present. She was the muscle for him. The clock needed batteries If the virus cures physical problems, then it would cure his addiction. Venom effects chemicals in his body and possible brain to where parts of him are not produced because his body is using Venom and expects it. Batman uses grapple guns. I believe John already admitted he knew Bruce is Batman... I believe he said this in season 1. Bruce likely sneaked past everyone on the bridge. He is a trained ninja and if he drives around in the batmobile, chances are he keeps other gadgets on him useful for sneaking. Joker could have a natural talent for use of the gadgets and fighting. He's already proven he's smart as hell. "Heroes don't result to murder" Red Hood would like a word with you, also, how are the stab wounds, broken bones, electrical burns from everyone you've beaten up in these 2 seasons alone? "Firing on cops is too far in the moral" - Gotham has morals?
Joker had already shown proficiency for combat when he took down the 2 guys that attacked Bruce when he was in Arkham. He's also someone that prefers not to show his abilities outright but may do so in a subtle fashion. E.g. master manipulation of the situation with Willy at the bar (he was in control and will provoke Willy to see Bruce fight so he can record it and learn from that as fighters DO sometimes watch tape on their opponents to learn their weaknesses or some techniques), manipulation of Harley to give him the bomb (dependent) and manipulation of Bruce to fight him (dependent) so that John can have SOME place in Bruce's life even if it isn't the way he wanted it to be, manipulation to get Bruce to let hid guard down so he could stab him in the stomach (dependent) His "accidental" activation of the EMP (which he will admit to- possibly dependent on your relationship with him- to quickly put a stop to Bane hurting Bruce as he had ALREADY figured out Bruce was The Bat and didn't need to fight Bane in season 1 just like he figured Vicky out)
You know it's really easy to knock on Gordon and his efforts but consider these things: 1. He HAS to follow the law. He is restricted by redtape. There's a procedure cops have to follow less they receive negative press or worse 2. Commissioner Gordon and the GCPD have limited resources to tackle terrorists let alone superhuman beings Bruce Wayne should be investing in better training and equipment for the GCPD. It would be in the city's best interest to having several squads of law-abiding Robins running around than just Batman and whoever is following him that night. A real world example of this is in Camden, New Jersey. No elite squads but a city with gadgets that attempt to limit crime you can find here ruclips.net/video/fVDvJCeCe54/видео.html
10:29 the diplomat was Andrei Karlov - he was shot at an art exhibition in Ankara on December 2016. Someone superimposed a photo of his lifeless body into the scene. www.dlh.net/en/gaming-news/57215/what-the-what-telltale-under-fire-for-picture-of-a-real-dead-body-in-latest-batman-episode.html The image has since been removed....as far as I know.
I’m calling it now: the “Bruce” that went to visit John in Arkham Asylum in the post credits scene isn’t the Bruce we’ve played as, but is actually Thomas Elliot aka Hush.
Batman doesn't like guns because they are lethal. So why not use one of the agency guns set to stun with a suppressor? 15:21 the bullet doesn't affect in any way at all. Not even blood or an entry wound
reasons for Harley not to shoot Bruce while in the car. she right handed and is holding a .50 AE pistol in her off hand. so she will likely injure herself.
11:39 My guess is that Banes group wanted Bruce for a combination of the Wayne's immense wealth and his ties with the GCPD would make him a good source of information to torture.
29:26 is exactly why I choose the villain path. The virus, alongside Freeze's blood could be the cure not only for his wife's illness, but for Harley's and countless of other people around the world. It's the price to pay for the greater good.
It's a shame (though understandable) that you didn't also sin the villain Joker route. While the vigilante route had the "good" ending, the villain route plot and well everything was phenomenal!
I would like to think that the Pact never agreed for Bruce to join and only agreed with John if he will bring Bruce in and they will all have a vote from the first impressions. And the only reason John is in the Pact anyway is to follow Harley.
I figured John would inevitably turn into Joker no matter what so I started slowly disagreeing and not supporting when he started getting more of an asshole, however, this time they didn't do the exact same outcomes which I think is great. Joker becomes his own villain if you go against him, and tries to be a hero if you're with him and both character models are different. Bane also doesn't get as roid raged if you're not backing Joker. One thing that Waller and the agency don't really make a lot of sense. If you're against Joker then the Agency ends up working with you and stays right til the end and Waller kisses your ass, but if you continue working with him Waller just goes out and builds the Suicide Squad?
I told some of my friends I bet in the sequel if you choose to keep Alfred around they'll pull an origins and he'll get fucked up and be all like "hey...so where's that suit again?"
The "I begin and have no end" part of riddler's riddle is dumb because there's been plenty of people who've been resuscitated after being dead for 5+ minutes
I don't see the problem with the news about the crime being down after the fall of the Children of arkham, it clearly means that Batman went straight to business after defeating them and cleaned the streets from the criminals, later they even say that Gordon said that this was the result of the public partnership between the police and Batman, the crime rate was high before the fall of the Children of arkham cause the police was still seeing Batman as a threat but ever since he defeated the Children of arkham and saved Gordon on live TV the police started to work with Batman which resulted in the criminal rate being way down in Gotham since then.
Also it wasn't Regina's fault for Oswald Cobblepot becoming new CEO of Wayne Enterprises, Regina was actually defending Bruce. It was the Wayne Enterprises' board that voted Oswald as new CEO. Plus I don't see vigilante Joker particularly skilled at fighting yes he knows how to fight but it's not like he knows all the martial arts' techniques that Batman knows.
Camillo Giuliett I’m going to assume you’re new to the channel but Dartigan doesn’t do multiple paths in these sins videos he just does one and does the sins for the path he did.
Camillo Giuliett the villain path would have been a sins playground to be honest cause unlike the vigilante's one it was rushed, forced and disappointing. You play as Bruce almost the entire episode, Batman looks weak af in there since just because he suffered of a concussion from harley's hammer as Bruce, few joker thugs easily get the upperhand on him while vigilante's path Batman defeated the joker after getting impaled in his ribcage... Also Harley doesn't get that Bruce is Batman in villain's path even though Bruce used Batman gadgets and combat skills to defeat her and joker, Gordon loses all the faith he had in Batman all pf a sudden and just decides to betray him to know Joker's bombs locations, waller appears in only two scenes, whether we revealed Tiffany we are Batman or not is quite irrelevant in villain's path and Joker's gives up the bombs location just to kidnap Batman but he seems still to be under harley's control. Villain's path was quite a disaster if you ask me.
Darksoul 96 The Strong I liked both versions of the episode villain one was more dark in my opinion and the other one was fun because batman was working with Joker
Tyler Outland vigilante's path is a truly innovating Batman and Joker story but in the end ends up with a classic and very well done showdown between them. In villain's path they made Batman weak as fuck so that he could be kidnapped by Joker and we could play as Bruce for the rest of the episode and in the end it was just a Bruce Wayne's story.
18:20 You've obviously never been to Connecticut. There are 4 coffee shops with about 2 miles of my house and I live in the suburbs. People would use IV coffee here if it was an option.
They made Gordon go cuckoo and lose his by-the-book personality for the sake of having to choose between unorthodox law enforcement or necessary evil law enforcement
1:42 Considering that Death of the Endless is a real person in DC Comics. How do you think she would have reacted to The Riddler trying to claim that he is her?
This is also weird tho when Harley walks in Bruce's secret office when you walk in you can see at the top bat symbols and Harley isn't even suspicious abt it. Not sure im correct or wrong
There are an abundant number of abandoned theme parks, carnivals, and circuses, they are a part of Gotham's entertainment district known as Amusement Mile
29:15 Unless you're an old school pulp character that knows where to draw the line on who deserves to live and server a sentence and who needs to be put down. Just look at the Rocketeer, Zorro, Solomon Kane, Doc Savage, and of course, the Shadow.
Well if the technology is EMP hardened then Bruce's contact lens and still work as well as the feelings key and stuff like that now if it wasn't then yes it would be fried but otherwise it should still work maybe be disabled temporarily but it should still function
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
+1 sin: When John hugged Bruce there was no option for: "Hug John back and never let go!"
6Kubik
It’s great to games actually care about gay people but… What?
Crazy Animator since when is hugging someone gay? What?
@@CrazSN firstly johns story is so fucking sad. Its not gay to hug him lmao
@@CrazSNFELLAS, IS IT GAY TO HUG ANOTHER MAN?
@@HabitualThinker bro dont remind me of this dumbass comment ☹️
I actually liked this season alot
Bruce Deliso I loved season 2 and 1 of batman hope Tellitale makes a season 3 of batman hopefully it comes late 2018 or 2019
Sadly, they can’t now
a lot. two words.
Me too
Same. Liked it way more than TWD Final Season
The one thing I don’t like about these games is that in certain scenes lines aren’t adapted to the choices you made previous. John says you steered him wrong and gave him bad advice because giving him bad advice is presented as the best choice in previous chapters but if you didn’t take it he just looks like he’s blaming you for nothing. This happens in many different places.
That problem was extremely evident last season, with the Harvey Dent problem. No matter what you do, even if you don’t turn him into Two-Face, he still acts like it. Why give people a choice if it changes nothing except a few lines and the way some things look
@@edgeofablade6236 I think the first season establishes that he turned into Two Face because of Lady Arkham's serum. If that's the case, it makes sense why he'd be Two Face regardless of how Bruce treats him.
@@dustymuffincop Yes. He was being controlled by Oz and Vicki to destroy the city and Bruce Wayne.
@@edgeofablade6236 Nah, Harvey Dent always had a split personality regardless of whether he’s maimed or not
Ah yes, the giant *EWW* in the sky telling everyone where not to eat at.
Bloom It’s telling you don’t eat at Batman’s steakhouse. The steak always comes out burnt, the butler only has one eye and the owner won’t stop talking about his dead parents.
It's telling us to not eat bats. Oh how we should have listened.
Breakdown topical
Its means that Batman is nasty as shit.
Lool
25:57
If you choose: "You figured it out"
he tells you that he aslo noticed the batsignal
Joaquin Lopez *if you choose anything BUT 'you figured it out' that's what he'll say
Oh
We need to remove Joaquin Lopez's likes
Romero why? D:
@Joaquin Augusto because you apparently think eyes are below the mouth? :D j/k
10:55 Don´t you know? Gotham city is so goth it is ALWAYS night time
m a Lol 😂
I love the vigilante opinion!!! I like the villain too but I think that develop Batman more, while this develops the Joker more! My advice is, if you're a fan of Batman/Bruce Wanye , pick the villain, if you're a fan of Joker pick the vigilante! Thanks for doing this game-I loved it more than Walking Dead seasons 2&3 (Walking Dead season 1 will always be my love)
To me walking dead was good at first but then it just started beign repetitive and the story was nothing good to me these games like the wolf amongs us season 1 tales from the borderlands and game of thrones and mostly i hate the original minecraft game but i really liked both of the Seasons they had a really good story and on al of these other games the places changed al the time when in the walking dead didnt and did play the original batman games and hated them but both seasons were a masterpiece like minecraft wolf amongs us game of thrones and tales from the borderlands when walking dead sucks al telltale games will always be in my heart expect for walking dead rip telltale games rip minecraft story mode season 1 2 and maybe a third season and rip wolf amongs us season 2 and rip game of thrones season 2
I feel like if you pick villain joker it’s just the joker sure he still kind of cares about Bruce but still almost gets him killed a lot of the time and the telltale series seems to really take one character and change their role in the game Vicky being a villain Bruce’s parents being mobsters Harley just being Harley by her own choice so I like the vigilante more because it expands on this new universe telltale created
"sequel baiting"... Ooooooo yeah that's not happening anymore.
Ne Á:kwe’ks aparently it might since telltale is back or something
@@zerocrashmurilo Any evidence of your claim? From what I seen I dont see them reviving anytime soon
CruddyCircle I know telltale was bought by some other person but I don’t know for sure they’d bring back Batman’s game series
Zerocrash Murilo wasn’t that like, sky bound or something and they just bought the license for the last season of The Walking Dead? And they were just finishing that out?
i have no idea i just red what i commented from the internet, so im probably wrong
It's more like John was invited in by Harley since she saw potential in him from the time as psychiatrist in Arkham before being relocated to Blackgate. And John really wanted his buddy Bruce to run with him and his friends, so he pressed Harley to invite him. And then Harley saw an opportunity and made a one-sided decision to invite Bruce in instead of disposing of him, based on everyone else's reactions. You don't let your imagination run wild for the sake of more nitpicks, mate) X)
StarlightFromAbyss also the only reason the pact wanted Bruce with them was to steal the phalanx key from Wayne Enterprises more easily.
Facts bro, he was nit picking at alot in this vid.
@@Kai-ni1uv sorry is that new?
Also, I don’t think the Riddler necessarily wanted to target Batman but he was a threat that had to be dealt with. When the guy says he picked a feud with him, Batman didn’t leave him any choice. Batman attempted to get Riddler arrested when he attacked Mori, then tracked down his hideout through John, and found information about where Riddler was through Mori (which was also because of John). Riddler literally had the agents in death cages when Batman arrived, so it didn’t seem like his target had changed but moreso he wanted Batman out of the way so he could deal with the Agency. And had it not been for Batman passing the box onto Lucius, he likely would’ve succeeded with no one left to stop him
32:00 I think she got to the conclusion that riddler killed her father because at the funeral she asked Bruce if it was the disk that killed her father
I always love your Telltale episodes. I wished you covered both Vigilante and Villain Joker routes, but you mentioned the villain path near the end so I'm pleased.
That implication of John sending someone to kill Bruce, I think it's just a coincidence. The guy still attacks even if you go to the conference as Batman. Come to think of it, he looks like one of Penguin's goons.
It actually feels really clever to have a riddle based on death when Mori's name is latin for mortal. Or death... Aaaaand I just heard myself say that. Disregard. Great video.
Yes Anthony Ingruber is the Third Best Joker and he is my third Favorite Joker
TheBatman Gamer Who is the other two?
Heath ledger and mark Hamil are the two other best jokers
TheBatman Gamer Heath is not a good joker lol. Just a good villain. Troy Baker did better in Arkham Origins
Troy Baker does do a amesome joker and in my opinion troy baker's telltale Batman portrayal is my favorite Batman portrayal of all time and heath ledger does a good joker but I think Anthony Ingruber joker is better
Cameron Monaghan is 3rd best.
10:29 Wait thats a REAL image of an assassination aftermath?! Wtf TellTale!? That is beyond controversial and disturbing!
DarkRavenWolf50 I noticed it was real as soon I saw the people doesn’t have lines on his clothes…
Dark…
Assassination of Andrei Karlov
29:44 - One sin I noticed during the game: If Alfred came in the Batmobile to originally get to that scene, which is odd enough of a notion, how did he get home?
Ever heard of taking a cab?
I imagine Bruce Wayne is rich enough to send a driver to pick up Alfred and drive him home, or like Gordon days later in the game it’s easy to imagine Batman would have a bunch of citizen allies that regularly help him out; one of them coming to pick up Alfred and bring him home seems like an easy favor to ask.
Whenever you notice something like that, a butler did it.
The Alfredmobile.
**turns on iPod. Opens RUclips app. Sees Dartigan video. Tries to Watch the video. Video comes up. iPod immediately proceeds to die.**
MaxxTheEnder use a samsung
Well, cancer kills...
Bruh u have an I pod
My favourite Telltale game.
Xenówólf Shiró It's my favorite telltale game also I also like Wolf among us and Walking dead and Season 1 of batman
The take on Thomas Wayne in season 1 was great, John was brilliant in season 2, overall a great telltale game. And yeah Wolf among us is great too
I have to say that Joker’s character took at complete 180 from mastermind to easily manipulated, impressionable, naive, and etc.
It was a great game! Love these versions of Joker, Batman and Harley!
I have nothing but respect for Dartigan. He's funny and he points out things that the average human eye/mind can't catch. I can't argue with his points and I know I certainly couldn't pick out these sins. Hats off to you Dartigan
I guess you watch Rick and Morty too huh.
R u itching for a like from dartigan
Imagine being soyack fan
@@red_menace1829 I don't know what you mean exactly by that but it is hilarious the way you put it
11:42 Actually you can piece together what happened based solely on dialogue of this episode. Basically when John was in Arkham he only trusted three people Leland, Bruce and Harley (Former doctor) so when he got out, he looked for the latter one. At that time the pact was only forming and Harley decided to take him in because she realized that she could get him to do anything for free, no questions asked. Sometime after, the Riddler died causing the pact to need the phalanx key and the emp for the plan to work. Harley knew for sure that Bruce had these things, so she, along with freeze and Bane, decided to get him to bring them those items just to kill him later (John was fully aware of this). At some point John should have mentioned that he knew Bruce, so they sent him to look for Bruce with the promise that he was going to join the pact and that if he made a good impression they wouldn’t kill him.
The only reason why Bruce could actually join and wasn’t killed was because he was the only one who could use the emp. Harley herself said that she changed her mind about killing him. Eventually all the members of the pact changed their minds and they let him join for real.
16:23
Harley proved that she is just as capable of doing things on her own and also very dangerous when she robbed that bank and Gordon says that his officers or/and the remaining agents that were at the scene were unable to detain her.
Loved this game.
Hope we get a Season 3
Maris Grablevskis
I'd assume it's a given that we will (YAY), but considering TWAU and TFTB haven't had a season 2, I'm trying not to get too excited for it.
Thomas Hart Telltale is working on Wolf among us season 2.
RABID RABIDS yeah, I saw that it's been delayed to 2019 now too
Maris Grablevskis I hope there is a season 3 of batman hopefully in 2019
Dad of War
My vote is for God of War.
On a side note: I'd like a sin to be placed on the first three GoW games for one thing. The GODS aren't suppose to have the same blood as mortals, they bled golden Ichor. Ichor originates in Greek mythology, where it is the ethereal fluid that is the Greek gods' blood, sometimes said to retain the qualities of the immortal's food and drink, ambrosia and nectar. Great demigods and heroes occasionally attacked gods and released ichor, but gods rarely did so to each other in Homeric myth. It was also believed that it was toxic to mortals, killing them instantly. Those with Ichor, including gods, Titans, and some monsters are near-perfect beings who, in battle, can be wounded, but never permanently killed, or in the case of gods and Titans, can never be killed at all. Demigods also share their godly parent's ichor in their veins infused with their human blood, however it cannot be seen, and it does not make them immortal.
Sorry if this came off as ranting, I'm just really big on Greek lore and that detail always annoyed the hell out of me. Mostly because Kratos would be killed himself each time he killed a God and that would make for a short game.
gorillazsan have you watching Gamingsins video of the god of war series cause the guy said the same thing..
-also ichor can be used to lower enemy defense-
-according to Terraria-
Greek God blood kills demi-gods? I mean Kratos is a demi-god, being Zeus son so he shouldn't be harmed by the blood of the gods right? Or am I wrong?
It was toxic to mortals, so I think the level of God in a demi-god matters in this. In the cases of heroes like Heracles, son of Zeus and born of mortal woman, Ichor would kill him. But in the case of Dionysus, a son of Zeus and the only God born from a mortal mother, no it wouldn't kill him.
gorillazsan Oh alright, thanks for the clarification
Best Telltale game since Tales from the Borderlands.
The Wolf Among Us and The Walking Dead heavily disagree.
I agree I think batman the enemy within is the best tettale game wolf among us and walking dead were good to
21:42 funny thing is, they actually are
In the Arkham Series:
It takes hundreds of strikes to take down Bane
It takes high strategic planning to take down Freeze
But just a simple smash-through-the-glass to take down Harley
So Tiffany Fox is wearing a shirt that looks like it came straight out of my college. Even has the same color and same initials. I legit thought she was in fact wearing a Grand Canyon University shirt until I remembered the live in Gotham... Gotham City University -_-
7:47 let's be honest, the antagonist always says this in telltale games
I think if there is a 3rd game, the give up Alfred option may be permanent. Look at The Dark Knight Rises. Alfred leaves and doesn't come back until Bruce 'dies'.
These vids are a surprisingly nice way to reminisce on old games
Like I said before working for Amanda Waller is a death sentence, she's the definition of a horrible boss who treat her employees like disposable cups.
Here's all my Catwoman choices in both seasons. In season 1, I tried to kiss her after the bar fight with Penguin's thugs, and saved her instead of Harvey at the debate. I slept with Selina, and after refusing to attack Harvey the next morning, I regarded Selina as more than a thief in the final episode. In season 2, I said redemption's possible at Riddler's workshop, warned Catwoman the cops were after her, and after kissing her on top of the Mayor's office, invited her to the batcave where we kissed again. After taking the fall for the laptop theft to save her, I let Catwoman help me fight the Pact. Having picked Joker's Villian path, I gave Selina the key to free us, kept my finger up when she read "never have I ever used a friend", and had Waller clear her criminal record.
You know I have to give Telltale props. Even though some of their limitations with the writing are clearly present, they have branched out in certain areas with the Batman games that I've considered buying these games. Still if you've listened to Alfed's speech you can tell there might be trouble going forward. Considering that he gives you the whole Batman creates villains schtick even if you've done everything to avoid people getting hurt and the results of not intervening as Batman would have resulted in a *destroyed city* without your actions. His accusations that you're becoming like Thomas come off as even more hollow.
All this being said, as much as I like the Bruce Wayne stuff, it is just a stupid idea what they did with it this season. Daritgan hit most of the points, but how about the simple fact that Bruce is now known by several criminals as someone who ran with a criminal gang and runs around committing crimes in the same, easily identifiable outfit. This is modern day right? Where everyone practically has at least one camera on their phones? So many people have dirt on him without resorting to his secret identity. If they *did* resort to their secret identity there's at least 2 people who have no reason to keep quiet if you piss them off. I liked the John stuff this season, but it came at the cost of the suspension of disbelief. Yes, a franchise running off of a rich man who dresses like a bat to fight crime, finally broke the suspension of disbelief.
Then there's Tiffany...... They kinda ruined her character with that finale.
Alfred’s whole idea and speech about “Batman creates more problems than he solves” is actually pretty similar to Harvey becoming Two-Face regardless of your choice - it has considerably greater weight depending on your choices and how the story played out. Like, if you’d egged on Harvey and John into their more villainous options, made choices that resulted in bad or unfavorable outcomes and generally played Bats like he was being written by Frank Millar, then Alfred’s concerns are entirely justified, well thought out and incisive. If, like me, you played Batman as if he were a human being capable of opening up and showing compassion, and didn’t make bad choices, it comes across as the PTSD talking.
I feel like I'm rare to hate on this game, seeing the comments in videos. I think the first game was much better writing wise. Harley contradicted herself in every other sentence - couldn't be just because of my choices. I feel like she was written to be played a certain way and I picked no right options. All Waller ever told me was "You got friends here. But if you don't do as I say you will HAVE it! Remember, I'm on your side." How am I supposed to feel attached to characters who flip-flop like this?
There were too many villains in one plot and 900 deus ex machinas, many of which you showed. Then in the end Alfred thinks Bruce is rotten to the core (who _would_ want him to stay after mocking Bruce, his efforts and his lifestyle like that? I played a nice Batman and felt it was very uncalled for. It sounded like Bruce already was a corrupt waste of a human - what were all those lovely bonding moments, just a joke to Alfred if he felt Bruce was a failure from the start? Thanks for saying something.) and after all that, his last words are "There's some lasagna in the fridge." What a mess. There's good stuff though, all the action gameplay, John/Joker, Selina and Batcave scenes. I'm angry, just finished the game and needed to vent.
Considering that now Telltale games is closed, the ending to this season could mean it's the actual ending to the story, and could stay like that for alot longer, making the decision even more difficult to make knowing that. Removing one sin.
(We will have to wait and see if we get another season if some other developer buys the rights
From all the info we’ve gotten, we’re probably getting a season 3 after Wolf Among Us 2
Even for the shortcomings... it was still a better plot build than some of the recent big budget DC films. The Telltale employees did a great job, even when they were overworked, and then let go when Telltale tanked. Many people think that the guy who did the voice-over acting for the Joker (Anthony Ingruber) in the Telltale Series, should have played Han Solo, given his role in Adeline as Harrison Ford's younger self ... and Ingruber's RUclips impersonations.
23:17 ever think about the fact that a clock would probably not have any power down in a sewer system, and is more decorational than anything.
I honestly didn't understand why Lucius had all that time to escape but he didn't
You've never seen automatic hinge doors? The town I grew up in had a bunch of them - mostly retrofit from manual hinge doors in areas where sliding doors wouldn't work, but they do exist.
Lowkey happy that even with all these legitimate flaws pointed out about this game I still find it to be one of my favorite Batman stories. Not to mention probably my favorite Batman suit just behind the Battinson one
Biggest sin for me Is not giving Batman and Catwoman's relationship closure I know It's optional but It feels canon like part of the story and they feel like genuine soulmates their final scene together does not give closure I really wanted to see them get together so unsatisfying
Guns either have a hammer and pin or a striker
Harley has 2 arms to swing that hammer
Last season, Joker already said he knew Bruce was Batman, so Harley doesn't have to ask why Bruce knows about all the traps, and storywise, Bane finds out Batman is Bruce as well. Someone could've and most likely DID tell her.
Missed a possible sin for Riddler's eye not being rotted out
Bruce is fueld by rage (been there before, you have to force yourself to sleep), Bruce also microsleeps, hence him being Bruce by day and Batman by night until morning.
John is Bruce's friend, psychological tactic attempting to get more bees with honey than vinegar. As a friend, Bruce might be more open with John
At one point, Batman said (in a comic, not the game) that Harley is more of a threat without the Joker than with him present. She was the muscle for him.
The clock needed batteries
If the virus cures physical problems, then it would cure his addiction. Venom effects chemicals in his body and possible brain to where parts of him are not produced because his body is using Venom and expects it.
Batman uses grapple guns.
I believe John already admitted he knew Bruce is Batman... I believe he said this in season 1.
Bruce likely sneaked past everyone on the bridge. He is a trained ninja and if he drives around in the batmobile, chances are he keeps other gadgets on him useful for sneaking.
Joker could have a natural talent for use of the gadgets and fighting. He's already proven he's smart as hell.
"Heroes don't result to murder" Red Hood would like a word with you, also, how are the stab wounds, broken bones, electrical burns from everyone you've beaten up in these 2 seasons alone?
"Firing on cops is too far in the moral" - Gotham has morals?
Joker had already shown proficiency for combat when he took down the 2 guys that attacked Bruce when he was in Arkham. He's also someone that prefers not to show his abilities outright but may do so in a subtle fashion.
E.g. master manipulation of the situation with Willy at the bar (he was in control and will provoke Willy to see Bruce fight so he can record it and learn from that as fighters DO sometimes watch tape on their opponents to learn their weaknesses or some techniques), manipulation of Harley to give him the bomb (dependent) and manipulation of Bruce to fight him (dependent) so that John can have SOME place in Bruce's life even if it isn't the way he wanted it to be, manipulation to get Bruce to let hid guard down so he could stab him in the stomach (dependent)
His "accidental" activation of the EMP (which he will admit to- possibly dependent on your relationship with him- to quickly put a stop to Bane hurting Bruce as he had ALREADY figured out Bruce was The Bat and didn't need to fight Bane in season 1 just like he figured Vicky out)
new dartigan for study breaks nice
26:55 Maybe the joke isn't funny because The Dark Knight made it by complete accident and every iteration since has been deliberate.
You know it's really easy to knock on Gordon and his efforts but consider these things:
1. He HAS to follow the law. He is restricted by redtape. There's a procedure cops have to follow less they receive negative press or worse
2. Commissioner Gordon and the GCPD have limited resources to tackle terrorists let alone superhuman beings
Bruce Wayne should be investing in better training and equipment for the GCPD. It would be in the city's best interest to having several squads of law-abiding Robins running around than just Batman and whoever is following him that night.
A real world example of this is in Camden, New Jersey. No elite squads but a city with gadgets that attempt to limit crime you can find here ruclips.net/video/fVDvJCeCe54/видео.html
31:15 Harley still has a shock collar on and motivation isnt gonna influence her actions anymore
Finally ! Thanks for the awesome work man !
"His name is on the building and it's the middle of the day." I died🤣🤣🤣
10:29 the diplomat was Andrei Karlov - he was shot at an art exhibition in Ankara on December 2016. Someone superimposed a photo of his lifeless body into the scene.
www.dlh.net/en/gaming-news/57215/what-the-what-telltale-under-fire-for-picture-of-a-real-dead-body-in-latest-batman-episode.html
The image has since been removed....as far as I know.
I’m calling it now: the “Bruce” that went to visit John in Arkham Asylum in the post credits scene isn’t the Bruce we’ve played as, but is actually Thomas Elliot aka Hush.
Mike P if your right then Hush could be a villain in a season 3 of batman
How do you know that ?
@@arkhamtony3775 I don’t, I’m making a prediction. That’s why I said “I’m calling it now”
So um...about Telltale 😬
@@sarahkins_bihh yeah we know. But their properties were bought by another studio.
Batman doesn't like guns because they are lethal. So why not use one of the agency guns set to stun with a suppressor?
15:21 the bullet doesn't affect in any way at all. Not even blood or an entry wound
Why am i so addicted to these gaming sin videos i just sit back eat junk food and watch these
2:05
I've seen/walked through hinged doors that open and close with motion sensors.
How about the sins of the alternative episode 6, where Joker doesn't become a Batman-wannabe?
reasons for Harley not to shoot Bruce while in the car. she right handed and is holding a .50 AE pistol in her off hand. so she will likely injure herself.
"Man the hell up Bruce" kills me every time I watch this.
31:10 "What happened to that motivation?" 31:30 "Whos wearing the shock collar again?" A lot of these sins make no sense and contradict each other.
yeah so true, he also counted the 3rd appearance of the water tower as a fucking "sin"
Glad he changed his mind about this joker he was one of my favorites
11:39 My guess is that Banes group wanted Bruce for a combination of the Wayne's immense wealth and his ties with the GCPD would make him a good source of information to torture.
29:26 is exactly why I choose the villain path. The virus, alongside Freeze's blood could be the cure not only for his wife's illness, but for Harley's and countless of other people around the world. It's the price to pay for the greater good.
It's a shame (though understandable) that you didn't also sin the villain Joker route. While the vigilante route had the "good" ending, the villain route plot and well everything was phenomenal!
Your intros are getting better and better. The animator is creative.
I would like to think that the Pact never agreed for Bruce to join and only agreed with John if he will bring Bruce in and they will all have a vote from the first impressions. And the only reason John is in the Pact anyway is to follow Harley.
I figured John would inevitably turn into Joker no matter what so I started slowly disagreeing and not supporting when he started getting more of an asshole, however, this time they didn't do the exact same outcomes which I think is great. Joker becomes his own villain if you go against him, and tries to be a hero if you're with him and both character models are different. Bane also doesn't get as roid raged if you're not backing Joker. One thing that Waller and the agency don't really make a lot of sense. If you're against Joker then the Agency ends up working with you and stays right til the end and Waller kisses your ass, but if you continue working with him Waller just goes out and builds the Suicide Squad?
I told some of my friends I bet in the sequel if you choose to keep Alfred around they'll pull an origins and he'll get fucked up and be all like "hey...so where's that suit again?"
Can u do villain joker path next?
The "I begin and have no end" part of riddler's riddle is dumb because there's been plenty of people who've been resuscitated after being dead for 5+ minutes
I don't see the problem with the news about the crime being down after the fall of the Children of arkham, it clearly means that Batman went straight to business after defeating them and cleaned the streets from the criminals, later they even say that Gordon said that this was the result of the public partnership between the police and Batman, the crime rate was high before the fall of the Children of arkham cause the police was still seeing Batman as a threat but ever since he defeated the Children of arkham and saved Gordon on live TV the police started to work with Batman which resulted in the criminal rate being way down in Gotham since then.
Also it wasn't Regina's fault for Oswald Cobblepot becoming new CEO of Wayne Enterprises, Regina was actually defending Bruce. It was the Wayne Enterprises' board that voted Oswald as new CEO. Plus I don't see vigilante Joker particularly skilled at fighting yes he knows how to fight but it's not like he knows all the martial arts' techniques that Batman knows.
I call dibs on "The Giggler". HE! HE! HE! HE! HE!
Where is the sins for the villian path?
Camillo Giuliett I’m going to assume you’re new to the channel but Dartigan doesn’t do multiple paths in these sins videos he just does one and does the sins for the path he did.
he did the vigilante path so that's what he sinned
Camillo Giuliett the villain path would have been a sins playground to be honest cause unlike the vigilante's one it was rushed, forced and disappointing. You play as Bruce almost the entire episode, Batman looks weak af in there since just because he suffered of a concussion from harley's hammer as Bruce, few joker thugs easily get the upperhand on him while vigilante's path Batman defeated the joker after getting impaled in his ribcage... Also Harley doesn't get that Bruce is Batman in villain's path even though Bruce used Batman gadgets and combat skills to defeat her and joker, Gordon loses all the faith he had in Batman all pf a sudden and just decides to betray him to know Joker's bombs locations, waller appears in only two scenes, whether we revealed Tiffany we are Batman or not is quite irrelevant in villain's path and Joker's gives up the bombs location just to kidnap Batman but he seems still to be under harley's control. Villain's path was quite a disaster if you ask me.
Darksoul 96 The Strong I liked both versions of the episode villain one was more dark in my opinion and the other one was fun because batman was working with Joker
Tyler Outland vigilante's path is a truly innovating Batman and Joker story but in the end ends up with a classic and very well done showdown between them. In villain's path they made Batman weak as fuck so that he could be kidnapped by Joker and we could play as Bruce for the rest of the episode and in the end it was just a Bruce Wayne's story.
18:20 You've obviously never been to Connecticut. There are 4 coffee shops with about 2 miles of my house and I live in the suburbs. People would use IV coffee here if it was an option.
When riddler attacked the casino it was Monday evening and when bruce visited mori was Sunday evening
By The Way - Iman Avesta could hear the last riddle, because after this there were one more sonic blast
14:19 "EMP shielding. This will protect stuff from EMPs. I'm Batman!"
Congrats on your astute detective work, Bruce.
Your game-accurate intros are always the best part.
I'd say, take under your scope Guardians.
They made Gordon go cuckoo and lose his by-the-book personality for the sake of having to choose between unorthodox law enforcement or necessary evil law enforcement
Bane is pretty smart in reference to his logic in questioning Bruce, first villain to figure out the identity in the comics I believe
That award goes to Ras I believe.
Logan Productions I meant actually figuring it out. Not training him
I agree 5:23, that was a 'HUGE' missed opportunity for Bruce to go in disguise as Matches Malone.
1:42 Considering that Death of the Endless is a real person in DC Comics. How do you think she would have reacted to The Riddler trying to claim that he is her?
You should also sin the Villain Joker path
Considering Telltale lost the license to Batman and all other licenses they won’t make another game
Telltale is back tho.
This is also weird tho when Harley walks in Bruce's secret office when you walk in you can see at the top bat symbols and Harley isn't even suspicious abt it. Not sure im correct or wrong
EWW Batman. At the beginning lol
FINALLY SOMEBODY DOES IT
There are an abundant number of abandoned theme parks, carnivals, and circuses, they are a part of Gotham's entertainment district known as Amusement Mile
Was Joker in this game modeled after William DaFoe?
He looks like a young cartoonish caricature of him imo
How have I not heard of this game until now? Looks interesting
I’m missed the streams again, DAMN!!!
BlackShotWolf the streams are trash anyway
Guardians of the Galaxy. I'll help you. First Sin: This game isn't based on the movies. The game would've been SOOOOO much better, if it were.
Dragon J Gamer if it was based like the movies it would be the same fucking thing
I'm weird, I'm a weirdo I meant during the timespan between either: the first and second movie or the second movie and Infinity War.
Usually i hate tie-ins, but the movies are good and Telltale are good at making games so it would work.
Why would... nevermind.
29:15 Unless you're an old school pulp character that knows where to draw the line on who deserves to live and server a sentence and who needs to be put down. Just look at the Rocketeer, Zorro, Solomon Kane, Doc Savage, and of course, the Shadow.
Wait what. I think sin 57 requires elaboration. That's an actual, non-video game rendered photo of a dead guy? Not just a similar pose to a dead guy?
Joker:"Did you ever think of me as your friend...? "
Bruce:"No John i thinked of you like my son"
Thinked? Um....
Hey u missed a sin how do they not know his last name is Wayne
Well if the technology is EMP hardened then Bruce's contact lens and still work as well as the feelings key and stuff like that now if it wasn't then yes it would be fried but otherwise it should still work maybe be disabled temporarily but it should still function
For some reason I really didn't like the batsuit in this season, I think it had something to do with the mask, but it just looked a little goofy.
This plot of a group of super villains going after a virus capable of healing people sounds a lot like the plot of Insomniac’s Spider-Man
MooshroomGaming in other words insomniac ripped this off