How Alatreon Divided the Monster Hunter Community | Asmongold Reacts
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- by @ZennyHunter • The fight that divided...
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Ruiner bein gated by MR 100 and Fata or Alatreon being at MR 24 (idk exact) is what caused people to think "ohh no, it's too hard"
lmao yeah. This is the crux of the problem. I think the devs were trolling by setting the entry requirements so low. It should be minimum MR100 and ideally MR150/200 to fight them. It makes no sense that nergi is set at 100. Bet the devs had a good laugh.
@@shivasanjeevmana I think, it's kinda similar in other games too. I recently picked up Rise-Sunbreak. At MR 10, I unlocked Primordial Malzeno and my god I was getting bodied by him in one shot. It was super frustrating. Then someone told me that it's end game Fatalis tier monster. No wonder I was getting one shot with my 700 defence Malzeno Armor.
Yeah, it's due to the post release content updates. They lock the initial, end game content behind an HR wall to incentivize people to keep playing, and when they release the hardest fights in the game they no longer feel like they need to do that so they don't gate it behind a high HR requirement so more people can just jump in. It's stupid IMO, I don't think anything should be gated behind a high HR wall anyway, just make it a normal quest progression and let people tackle things in proper order at their leisure, much more sense this way.
@@RiskOfBaer I get what you are saying but ATV was dropped way post launch (even after fatty if I am not mistaken) and is locked behind MR100. Plus taking on ala and fatty without augments is just asking for a hard time as a new player.
@@bhushan_88 woof, that would have been a rough time with so little defense.
As a long-time Monster Hunter player, it's always interesting to see the varying perspectives
When I first beat Alatreon, I used Dragon element, because in the journal it says it has 1 star weakness to dragon in both fire and ice phases, and 2 star weakness in dragon phase, at no point is it immune to dragon unlike ice or fire, sure it has more weakness to ice while in fire and more weakness to fire while in ice, but your effectiveness window is much larger with dragon element. Always worked like a charm. Reading, and critically thinking isn't very strong today though.
@@Themightyfrogg I still think that the dragon element is the best way to defeat Alatreon. You don't have to rely on breaking the head and can focus on other parts of the body.
I personally prefer to use a bow to shoot at the tail because it has a large surface area.
Alatreon was the best boss they ever made before Fatalis and i played all of 4U and double cross.
@@markusbauer614Its just way worse dmg wise and with topple/clagger you can easily down him to get on the horns which arent that hard to break in single player either. Dragon element is if you are lazy and you fail the elemental check in the first phase which lets you get it in the 2nd
@@ThemightyfroggDragon element does f all damage to his elemental thresholds though. Unless you have an ice or fire meowlotov palico perhaps
One thing these people don't mention is that alatreon unlocks waaay too early and lets beginners join in not knowing the hell waiting for them, alatreon asks you not just skill but also elemental gear, solid armor, good knowledge of monster movements and game mechanics and solid amount of resources because u will loose like 50% if you never fought him before
It's pretty much straightforward for elemental gear tho, velkhana>alatreon>fatalis. Plus if they have to unlock to MR 90 to be able to fight something like Golden and Silver Rath I'm pretty sure normal people would quit because they beat the main story long before that
While having good gear helps it's not that bad for someone coming into the game new. I know that when he first released most players already had their silverlos sets, kjarr and/or safi weapons which in all fairness made him way easier. However, I've been playing through the game again and by the time you get to alatreon you have raging brachy so you can easily do what I did which was to slap together a 2 piece brachy, 3 piece teo set, and then got myself a frostfang barioth weapon. I grabbed the longsword since it's usually my comfort pick and I got very used to fighting him with LS in the past... With just the longsword, no elemental decos, no crit element, just a raw set and a good ice weapon I cleared him on my 2nd or 3rd try... It was just a matter of getting used to him again since I hadn't fought him in like 3 years, also I had been using swaxe the whole playthrough so I also had to get used to LS again.
Point is that even though he is mr24 and it's weird to fight him before silverlos or angy nerg you definitely have the gear you need available... Kjarr weapons, or frostfang, usj event can even get you true crit element, normal crit element comes from velk, safi armor and weapons are fantastic, an elemental safi weapon with velk divinity and 4 piece safi armor +1 piece velk will make alatreon into a joke. And you can always do what I did or even go in with a raw set and just eat a cart or two...
is new daora worse than old gen? like fu?
The issue of iceborn is that all the guiding lands stuff is locked behind Mr lvls which is bs and than alatreon blocks at low Mr and you can't even farm the proper gear yet to make things easy is just bad game design they should have the quests to unlock the higher monsters but not lock them behind master rank lvls cuz that makes it just shitty and more grindy for no reason
You got to be joking, alatreon is a expansión boss from an already long campaign, this should not be a problem.
Prep work for most monsters: Optional
Prep work for Alatreon: Mandatory
As it should be for an endgame boss!
Alatreon with prep IS Piss easy. Especially with crit element
Not easy enough for a lot of people I guess. Too hard to use anything other than their 1 raw set I guess.@@amberow9892
@@Rendorina You are very Wrong, to a point I can say you either never played this game, or your first game in the series is World...
So let me explain to you a Core design philosophy from Monster Hunter.
Core design philosophy in Monster Hunter since the first one from 20 years ago, is that firstmost what dictates an outcome is your skill, and what facilitates the outcome is your gear.
A fun fact is that the Souls Franchises which has been HEAVLY influenced by MonHun... also has as this inbuilt in it's design philosophy, what dictates the outcome is your skill, your gear and levels in those games are facilitators.
Basically what this means is technically you could beat most of these games with starter gear,
Monster Hunter is kind of has a little bit of a restriction on that because at some point time limit will refrain you from doing it so, but given the limitations it's possible to beat game all Gen 1~4 Games with low rank gear and you could even disregard elements.
The only exception to this in 20 years is in fact: Alatreon from World.
Alatreon from World is the single encounter in the entire franchise, Spin-off and Main games, that have a mechanic that introduces a gear requirement.
All other DPS checks (Sieges and Magdala) are designed with a wide damage range in mind, World Alatreon isn't unless you cheese the shit out of it (but that should not count).
So when your gear is dictating the outcome of the fight before your skill even is a factor, the design of the encounter goes against what this franchise entails.
@@raphaelmerino100my guy. Easiest counter point in the world. You can beat him with raw.
I’ve done it, there’s entire videos of people doing it (I’m talking first kills, non speed runners people just legitimately improving and downing him with raw).
Besides 99% of the entire player base will never attempt naked runs they’ll be using appropriate gear. Gear that you can in fact down alatreon with.
It’s absolutely hilarious to me that people don’t understand that enough skill makes his dps check extremely easy or downright skippable.
The only real point you can make is that you’ll need to use carts to beat him using raw, and of course beating him raw is only really double in solo.
Genuinely learning his move set and learning when you can take advantage of his openings will make the dps check happen on its own and if you aren’t carting to his usual move set then carts on judgment become just another resource. That’s how you down it with raw but you can literally take that same practise with elements and ignore the horn and still beat him.
Want to know what really fails the hunt for the vast majority of people? It’s the carts that happen to non judgments or players simple playing so so passive they never engage.
Thank you so much for watching my video with your community Asmon, It's always great to get new perspectives on conversations like this. I look forward to watching your first kill on him :)
I feel like you're very underrated
Hey I watched your video a week ago
Btw the mh community seems to only like mh so don't be discouraged by views on other videos they're good too👍😃
@@oogabooga1228 To be honest I upload every video with 0 expectation of views, I'm just trying to upload good content that I would enjoy watching - views are just a bi product of that for me
@@Timothy1717 This was only my third video so I still have a lot of improvements to make, i'm glad you enjoyed it though :)
dragon blight does show on your hunter when afflicted - you'll see it as a dark mist that periodically flashes on your hunter with little red lightning effects. Asmon just doesn't see it when his hunter gets afflicted with it
one little tip - just learn the debuffs only. you don't have to worry about knowing the good buffs (just know they're good) but do take note on what all the debuffs do as there aren't a whole lot of them and each monster only has a handful you'll have to worry about (unless you have skills that nullify them)
The visual effect for Dragonblight is very hard to see in the Alatreon arena. It's dark-red lighting in a dark-red arena. I think missing the visual cue is perfectly understandable for someone who doesn't know.
@@TheTexasDice i kinda get that but the damage numbers also change colour to reflect the fact you have dragon blight. Asmon not seeing it is understandable considering he is streaming/trying to entertain while playing the game and ... well he is kinda stubborn about not wanting to read directions; instead opting to learn by doing.
You can also see the damage numbers get a blue edge effect around them, that's also an indication of Dragonblight.
I miss the debuff where the game turns you into a snowman
For a guy who says he always wants to see the biggest numbers, he doesn’t care to ask “why are my numbers lower and blue”.
I remember back in the OLD days the strategy to kill Alatreon was literally "4 dudes with sleep weapons and bombs", it was the most efficient strategy ever.
Lol. Calling Alatreon the "OLD" days. But it very quickly went over to "4 dudes with HBG Pierce". My fastest 4 man is sub 2:30 minutes. I don't even count it because it's so ridiculous
Or if you are like me and wanted to turn the brain off solo in MH3U...The Kelbi Bow.
Most people in Multiplayer hunts, never cure their dragonblight, so i run wide-range maxed to counter this
I run wide range for everything in multiplayer hunts.
true, cant trust em xD@@SRFAA
That's because people don't interact with the mechanic. they just straight ignore it.
@@kylemenos I dont want to deal with the blight so I go 3 blight resist 😂
This is the way @@shutup1037
On the topic of Blast as an element. Blast was originally Slime in 3U exclusive to Brachydios it was a brand new mechanic and broken. It got changed to Blast status in 4th gen and added to pre-existing monsters that already had fire explosions such as Teostra while others still had the explosion without the Blast status like the Raths. Then there's also new monsters that came later like Bazelgeuse were all of his exploding eggs cause fire blight same with Glavenus spittinghis molten slag. There's also other monsters that have element explosions Savage Deviljho's dragon breath nuke, most of Safi'jiva's attacks, Namielle's water thunder combo steam explosions, and Shara creating the air explosions. And then there's Fatalis and Alatreon having fire explosions alongside their regular fire attacks with Alatreon also able to cause his ice pillars to explode if his dragon attacks contact them.
In short there's plenty of examples of monsters causing explosions with their element attacks. Now give us Element shelling already Capcom there's no excuse for Gunlance shelling to be locked to dealing fire damage.
Exactly! Blast can and should be an element, as mostly kinetic energy. The blight is a delayed concussive blast and that's how Brachydios slime work. Lore wise we're not at that state yet because it was newly discovered but in Wilds it may become one since he recently got raging slime to study.
Interesting idea on the gunlance elemental shellings. I guess if the switch axe can have elemental explosions there's no reason why the gunlance couldn't have them too.
@Xainfinen I think the reason for making blast a status ailment rather than an element is balance. Elemental damage procs on every hit, while status ailments build up to a proc and then reset with increased resistance. I think the blast proc is 250 dmg. Imagine that proccing with every hit 💀
I never played that DS game where blast was introduced, but I think back then it worked as an element and was absolutely broken. The devs learned and balanced it, it seems.
@@HarfelJYep, I think that as well. I had the same understanding as Asmon and initially thought that Blast was an element but then when I thought a little more about it.
Keibi bow was so broken
Actually its not locked to fire damage. Shelling damage is technically "pure" or "true". Like with sticky, it's a fixed value regardless of which part of the monster its hitting (though some monsters, like Safi, have an inherent full-body resistance to that damage). It does not scale with anything other than the weapon's raw attack value or the Artillery skill.
Alatreon was hated sooo much because most players damage builds couldn’t cut and they had to come up with a new build that no other monster required them to do. After my 4th time I grinded Taroth and went with an elemental crit build with the LBG and beat it solo. There is an issue when it comes to challenging players you either have players who learn and adapt or you’ll get players who refuse to get better and want an easy out.
The boss dropped quite late after the expansion and after Safi as well, there was plenty of time to farm that boss then this fight would have been a fraction of the difficulty. Safu weps and armour were incredibly broken, i dont know why anyone is complaining like it was a herculean task to just farm a monster 2 or 3 times
@@schweizer33012 or 3 hunts? Man, ur luck must be extremely high. I honestly can't remember a time it didn't take at least 7 to 8 hunts to hopefully finish an armor set. I don't mean this to be insulting or say this sarcastically, but ur luck is insane to me. Or my luck is just that poor.
@@yo_greasy6745If your group breaks parts, then yes, u can get the armor set pretty quickly.
Yup, people were mad their "comfy" full crit full attack boost wex 3 destroyer 3 builds were getting wrecked and they refused to change or adapt to the fight. My first few attempts I tried full crit elemental builds then decided to change it up and actually take my time with the fight and beat it first try with dragon element. Now my friend and I duo it elementless, learning the fight (and reaching dps check) is just a lot harder when you cant take more than one hit.
The main reason ppl hated alatreon when they first came out was because blast was meta at the time and near nobody had elemental builds so ppl were mad that they had to build element builds from scratch, and in group hunts the team would get wiped and lose since half or all of the team was using blast builds at the time
Thank you, so many people are upset that these new blast and raw build damage sets suddenly wouldn't work on this new thing, and they got super pissy about it.
Ive been using bow and dual blade since base game and i was like how come this become a problem that rip the community apart? 😂
@@vasilias7987 because people are lazy
Absolutely have no problems with alatreon because I mainly using Gunners weapon so just need a bowgun that can carry the 2 star element weakness and add elemental charm for both elements, for first cleared after I got enough parts for his bowgun oh yea it's time to abuse it
@@NeocrimsonX no, its because its opposite the design of every other monster in the game and most weapons were nerfed so hard ele damage wise in world that it wasnt worth building around them until you were forced to for a gimmick fight.
The mindset of getting better is a better mindset than getting better gear. But it's actually really fun, and part of monster hunter's original design to have you gather lots of weapons and gear for different situations. It can be really fun and satisfying to do that. It was less of a thing, and not something I did at all in World, but it's a big part of the older games.
Honestly if World did that, it'd be pretty cool
Gear doesn't make you win anything in Monster Hunter, especially when we're talking about those later fight. MH is a game of pure skill, gear only serves to make you win harder. And look cool while doing it.
No, Monster Hunter's original design is the ABILITY to gather lots of weapons and gear. Not the ENFORCEMENT to do so.
I killed it 6 times btw and I still hate Alatreon. The gimmick is bad.
@@RiskOfBaerthis guy….we have gear because it helps fights. In MH skills and defense are tied to gear. The reason we don’t have a bunch of people running naked and just using layered armor is because that gear is essential. It isn’t looks. It serves a purpose. Its purpose is to aid skill.
@@chalnervassor9430 the EXACT same can be said about Elden Ring , and yet you have people running around naked with a pot on their head ready to fight Malena
Asmongold ignoring the entire ingame Monster Hunting MANUAL is just peak Asmon XD
To be fair I ignored it too because it's not very useful. Rise has a significantly more useful hunter journal with drop rates and hitzones values so I used that one way more.
@@ianhur MHW's Journal also has drop rates
and also has hitzone info....
@@ianhur i agree with u there for hitzone values not u showing on mhw manual still useful to players like asmon to know what element or ailment to use on a monster
Then blames it on the VIDEO GAME being illogical. A game that has fucking dragons in it.
He just wasn't prepared and thats really that.
Ngl the mental hoops to consider blast light as an elemental effect is dumb
the way he explained it makes it seem mental gymnastics but the gist of it is simple, its a number with an icon on the weapon info that looks the same as any other element, and the "status proc" is a fiery explosion. one would look at it and assume its fire damage.
No bro you don't understand. His brain is too logical
@@Kotoy1 but sleep and paralisys too are an icon on the weapon, there is whole ass manual you can check, if there is a fire element why blast would be a thing?
@@typhoon4994 that's why people that are watching his content should take 65% of what he says with a grain of salt.
Lol for real. He sounded dumb af
The only thing that I don't like about the boss is how mandatory it is to bring specific elements to the fight to have chance. The problem I have with it, is how the mandatory gear does not necessarily offer the same playstyle as you are used to. People who already run elements doesn't have to care too much and might only have to change the weapon and deko. But other sets offer no benifits to element so you end up having to craft a whole new endgame set JUST for this boss, that you won't have to use anywhere else. If I think about preperations, I think about adjustments and consumes to bringt, but this bosses preperation is literally farming a whole new gearset just to have a chance. And then the swapping between elements that literally opposite each other makes it even more strict how you have to play and what gear you have to bring.
Blast blight started with slimeblight which is exclusive to Brachy in 3U.
Imagine if they just stuck with calling it slimeblight. But I get why the didn’t, since it was better as a mechanic to add with other monsters. I love Teostra’s CB.
Still, it’d be cool for the hunter to have a similar slime effect of residue that are delayed explosions on the ground like Brachy’s attacks.
I had no idea some people hated Alatreon. His movement is really well telegraphed and fair, with generous openings if you figured out the fight.
In my 3k plus hours of Iceborne, i spent just as much time doing nothing as i did hunting. And that included looking at random people's builds in the lobbies i was in. They hated Alatreon because people are lazy af. That's the bottom line. Learning a monster's moves is one thing.. they don't even learn what the skills do. They do no research whatsoever and have terrible builds. They did not want to learn why they got stomped. They'd rather do the easier thing and cry about it.
@@Raptchurfacts when I saw the MR300 who couldn't take on alatreon and meanwhile had level 3 crit boost and like 8 levels in random elemental attack skills on a weapon with 0 affinity and no affinity from other skills like the amount of random/trash builds people make is wild
@@Raptchurjust a disclaimer, I'm not one of the "meta set" assholes since I think whatevers meta is whatever you can finish the hunt with, I just think people should use skills that make sense and actually put in some effort to make a set
elemental damage is not balanced properly and it forces people into weapon classes they don't want to use. Thats the main problem people have with him. It forces them out of their favourite weapons.
I don't hate altreon but I just keep wondering if his fight would be better without the damage check.
Same as I like Iceborne but I wish so many fights weren't balanced around clutch claw. I liked the idea around clutch claw but it was really clunky and I didn't like that some fights pretty much forced me to use it. (Also using it with "light"weapons which require you to use it twice on the same part feels awful)
* EDIT * I'm starting to question everyones comprehensive skills on this post and the MH community.
1) In case you didn't realize, I'm in favor of people using defensive skills and quality of life skills (earplugs, flinch free, etc) because not all of us players are TDS levels good and can just avoid taking damage.
2) I'm against forcing or convincing new players that they MUST play the best offensive builds. Defense and health is very useful to players still learning attack patterns or not wanting to cart as often.
3) The Meta is only for experienced players, you don't have to do what everyone else does. And the losers who say git gud and fan boys are probably the toxic losers @TheTexasDice was talking about.
0:39 - 0:56 Yes, as a VETERAN Hunter, worrying less about defense and maxing damage is the main goal. As a NEW or NOVICE Hunter, you can't learn how to avoid the attacks if the monster 1-2 shots you. Higher defense allows 1-2 more hits, more chances to heal, less carting, more time figuring out the monster.
So yes Asmon, you SHOULD worry about gear, until you master the monsters movements.
I disagree with this. Before monster hunter world, it was completely okay to run around with maximum Earplugs if it made the game more fun for you. But ever since World, the "attack boost 7 + WExploit 3 + Critboost 3 + Agitator 7 + Critical Eye 7"-minmaxer are just bullying you into playing the same way they do or you get kicked off the lobby.
And Iceborne for some reason rewarded this disgusting behavior.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong using defensive skills like Divine Blessing, Health or even Defense Up while being new on MH, but even all players - veterans included - should max their base armor defense.
That being said, Health Boost 3 should be mandatory for most players at least and you can max up Divine Blessing with the Fatalis set for a more comfy play end game.
Or just do both. Divine with offense skills=defense with DPS.
I mean I don't think that's a good argument against alatreon. Especially since he's an update monster in a master rank expansion. If you get to him you aren't a novice hunter, you're barely a new hunter. Like he was the second to last monster added no shit he'd be strong. That's like saying the risen elders are too strong and are bad because they're too hard for novice hunters. Nevermind that it takes like 100 hours to get to them.
@@TheTexasDice In 500 hours of playing this game (on PC) I have literally never seen anybody kick another person because they weren't running a meta DPS set. Stop making up straw man arguments, this is not an issue. And if you personally feel like you need to do that, that's your own problem. I ran utility armor sets with evade extender, evasion, earplugs, healthoost, and limited offense skills. And I still topped the DPS charts in 9/10 hunts with my Hammer. Get good.
It is still impressive how Asmon got this far without utilizing the main gimmik from Iceborne - the clutch claw. But the Dragonblight thing is a matter to adress. It's the dragon claw ontop of the health bar (also the NPCs are shouting at you once you have it).
Bro has also never used a Slinger pod or Flash pod in his life. The guy does reverse learning, if he can 40 minute a monster then he doesn't need to learn, only when he reaches a wall does he do the bare minimum learning depending on how strong his ego is feeling that day.
To be fair, Asmon doesn't play much coop in this game to notice people that use clutch claw effectively
@@Insanity2thePrawncoz he literally plays like an old school MH player. no gimmicks just straight up attacking until the monster dies, I remember being shamed online in MHFU coz I used a flashbomb.
Alatreon in world is the only monster in all of MH games that has a DPS check, and the only monster that forces you to learn the new mechanics or lose.
coz lets be honest clutch claw, flashbomb, wallbang etc makes the hunt easier but they're optional. You can finish a hunt without using them, the hunt will be longer but it can be done.
@@RipCord1995Yeah, vigorwasps up the ass and rocksteady mantle, so old school LMAO
I'm not sure if I missed it or what, but one of the greatest moves in Iceborne is sliger shot directly into TCS, but I've never seen him use it, heck I don't think I've ever seen him use tackle other than accidental button push.
As someone thats played these games since the get go, i am soooo happy that the series finally got the mainstream love it deserves and now i just cant wait for MH Wilds, that game is going to be special
As someone who considers Alatreon to be one of my favorite fights, it is purely incidental because one of my favorite weapons (bow) is really effective and reliant on elemental damage. The reason that I personally would otherwise hate Alatreon is because its elemental dps check instantly invalidates many other builds and playstyles, many of which I'd otherwise enjoy playing. My first kill on Alatreon (solo) was just over 30 minutes, and in no way did it feel repetitive because of how stimulating I found its moveset to be. Very well telegraphed, a lot of visual clarity, and a lot of difficulty (relative to the rest of the game) is what made this fight so engaging. Monster Hunter's combat is the sole and only reason I am in love with the games - everything else comes secondary. And let me emphasize, Alatreon makes use of that combat very well.
I could go on even further to say that I prefer Alatreon to Fatalis, and the one and only reason for this is, is because Fatalis has a 30 minute timer rather than a 50 minute timer, thus making it a glorified DPS check, one that I have found to be much harder to meet without the use of the siege weapons laying around (just my personal experience), things that I refuse to engage with because I feel it undermines the purity of the "duel" and its combat (this is a personal problem, and you are not expected to have this limitation). To this day I have not beaten Fatalis, though I have come very close. Mind you I am also using armor that is not fully upgraded because grinding tempered elders in the guiding lands just for the sake of upgrading feels invalidating of the experience and thus feels really tedious, so I'm basically playing "don't ever get hit or you die", but even so, this is completely fine by me. My only problem is with the timer.
This egotistical mindset of "people don't like this because it's hard" comes up time and time again, and you'll see it obnoxiously within communities such as Dark Souls where no one will ever be willing to have a proper discussion about why things are the way they are, and what people actually find to be fun and engaging about an encounter.
The one thing I will say is that people review bombing because they don't like one encounter in a frankly massive game that is generally of successful quality are just as obnoxious and immature. Agree or don't.
As someone who loves fatalis and hates alatreons judgement (not his moves just the check) I agree along with what you also said about the grinding lands, love the area, hate what it's used for. And also still agree on dark souls
all my favourite builds are raw damage be it with great sword, swaxe or charge blade so I was pretty annoyed when I realised my playstyles were useless in this fight and I would have to farm up a new build just to play in a style I don't like all so I have a chance of beating the fight.
thankfully now that I have fatalis gear I can just out DPS alatreon even without elemental damage and I enjoy the fight way more.
Every build I enjoy is invalidated by this fight, and having to grind up new gear in the grinding lands was too much for me. I'm not changing my entire play style for one boss... that's like, 40 hours of grinding a gear set and skills I don't enjoy just for one fight. I still have a positive review of the game of course because it is just one boss in an otherwise incredible 200+ hours (everything pre-Grinding Lands).
@@MaskanRill if you aren't playing CB how using elemental change the way you play? that's the part that confuses me the most why people got mad with alatreon, you have to do the same thing just the damage type changed, or you guys are referring to breaking his horns as a forced mech? because fatalis also has it. When he came out I just made a DB build after trying GS and falling miserable, not only I destroyed him first try also found my best weapon, I'm not an one weapon player but since them DB are my free pass for any monster be world or rise.
Having the mindset of just getting better is absolutely a good thing. It’s just the fact that gear can be such a multiplier to your skill. You can quite literally use a hammer against every nail and screw in the game- even Alatreon, but you still had to be good enough to brute force raw or call people in to help that could compensate.
It’s an actual endgame fight at the end of the game’s release cycle. The only real problem was that it should have probably required higher MR
Veterans players tend to forget that when we were freaking new players we did most or all the mistakes asmond made in this playthrough and or had to watch hours of videos explaining the mechanics of the game or several more hours learning by ourselves.
I have 900h playing this game. I'm even surprised of playing this much. When Alatreon came out i was there at that instant and i played 20+ runs everyone failing because nobody knew at the beginning all the intricacies of the fight. We learned all the mechanics at the 5th or something attempt and even changing to a suboptimal elemental build it was still hard AF.
But we never hated the boss or the mechanics. We adapted, farmed better and learned his moves ultimately beating him. I freaking love this fight and conquering was a bliss of a reward.
We want to get our buttons kicked by the monsters. If a new endgame black dragon comes out and you aren't carted at least a few times it's a disappointing fight.
Yeah, except not knowing dragonblight.
@@The_medicine_frog my kind of experience with rise, don't know if I became too good at playing MH or if the game was easier, but I beat the whole game without failing a quest, not even risen valtrax was able to make me fail but was close to lol, still have to try the hazard quests to see if I finally fail once
@@arthuralmeida6049 the first hunt I failed was the first time I fought the scorched espinas. (Or whatever it was called)
only reason the boss is hard is because you only get 3 minute window to deal enough element damage, the game has extremely bad elemental gear except for a few endgame items, most of weapons have such low element values, they cant even be considered elemental weapons, meaning you are forced to use those few weapons for this fight, you basically get 2-3 fire and 2-3 ice weapons that can be used for this fight to meet the check and most of them are from siege fights. So what happens is, you come to this fight, you check your weapon tree, pick highest element weapon, then learn those weapons dont work because only fire/ice weapons are effective and only if the element values are high enough, meaning not a single weapon that you can craft at the time, usually is good enough, so your options are to make full element builds and grind for some specific weapon to meet the check or abandon it all together and simply only cart to escatons.
This makes the fight so much harder, because during first option, you need to meet element check in first 3 minutes in a fight you get little practice in due to the fight ending quick, if you do meet the check, you need to break a horn or the fight ends anyways and even if you meet 3 element checks, you can still lose by not doing enough raw damage as element hitzones in this fight are much worse than raw.
If you pick second option, the hard part now is to not die once to anything but escatons.
Monster hunter games will always be about knowing the monster and preparing for those fights, the fun comes from creating new sets for certain monster, finding weapon class that counters them, and gathering lots of consumables.
Tbh I have fun when I struggle on my first try taking way too long with a suboptimal set. I tried to no element him but I genuinely think it's impossible without:
-already having his set pieces
-crazy max upgraded safi/kulve weapons
-insane decos
-potentially ledge cheesing
-clutch claw
-carting twice (lol)
None of the above were true in my case and I couldn't kill him. That's the only canon monster who shits on my fun this way... Big sad😢
maybe pre mr100 I feel like switching gear after is just obnoxious unless you are transitioning into fatalis
0:38 I love how he describes exactly why his fans get so frustrated with him 😂
I do see the point about Blastblight and Fireblight look familiar. Monsters with blastblight sort of sometime come together with fireblight like Dodogama, Teostra, and both thing can be cured by spam dodging or use nullberry.
Similiar thing to Thunderblight with Paralysis from Kirin, Fulgur Anjanath, and Tobi-Kadachi.
But I also see some monsters with Blastblight or Paralysis without Fire or Thunder, like Great Girros and Brachydios.
My thought on why they separate it is poison, paralysis, blast felt more like some sort of toxin injected or slimy substance that unnaturally attached on players, sort of like chemical reactions than relying on mass attack like fire, water, thunder, and ice.
Aliments often came from monster bite, slime, or mucus, than pure elemental attacks.
Kirin use it horn to inject paralysis, Tobi use bite, Brachy and Dodo use slimy substance acting as a time bomb.
Like grenade with shapnel, blastblight might be using some sort of extremely hot airblast, enough for making spark and smoke but can't set thing on fire easily.
Stun is more related to how body react, nothing to do with element, like get hit very hard or blind from flash by Tzi-Tzi Yaku.
For Teostra it could be the gunpowder or some sort of pheromone thing.
Doesn't mean much, but I'll put my 2 cents in for this.
I beat Alatreon when it came out. I did so solo. I had looked into the information that the devs had put out when he released. I went in with the proper preparation. I prefarmed the Silver Rathalos set, and I had farmed the Frostfang Barioth weapon.
Going in, I knew most of what I needed to know. The only thing I didn't know was to focus the fore-legs, because they take the most amount of damage.
I used Switch Axe, even though at the time people were saying it was a bad match up. I beat him solo on my 8th attempt.
The fight itself, as in Alatreon's moveset is spectacular. It is a very difficult fight, that felt very rewarding to overcome.
However, all of that is ruined by Escaton Judgment. I absolutely despise DPS checks. If I could fight a version of it that didn't have that move, it would be one of my top favorite fights in the game.
Could I go back and beat it again? Absolutely. Do I want to? No, it just isn't fun.
What's funky is that Alatreon didn't have these mechanics in previous games. It was just a big dragon who can use multiple elements, but you fought him the way you'd fight everything else. They were experimenting with something there, and while interesting, it added an extra frustration element. Personally, I enjoy Alatreon, but I get why people can get annoyed.
It's beyond me how Capcom thought this fight needed to be changed at all. Alatreon in both 3 Ultimate and Generations Ultimate was already an enormous challenge. But learning his attacks and overcoming the fight felt so rewarding. He's insanely fun to beat in those games. Whoever thought this already incredible fight needed a gimmick should be fired.
4:13 deviljho has entered the region
If you ever look at the Hunter's Notes option in your menu it does tell you that status and element are different because it separates them in the weakness tab.
Right? I usually share the same views as Asmon but he just is making excuses here for not being prepared. I have the same amount of playtime as him in the game I could spot the mistakes and the issues he was having and im yet to even fight the boss.
@@MrWiggz69 You guys don´t get it. The real problem isn´t that the game doesn´t tell you that they are seperate things, them being seperate things to begin with in the case of blast damage is the real problem.
@@chrisdivodi9291 Ok disregarding the fact that it always hits for the same damage number regardless of how resistant or weak a monster is to fire I gotta ask, if you could only deal fire damage infrequently from blastblight would you think that's enough to hit an elemental dps check? Consider that every time you see the explosion it takes longer for the next explosion to apply.
@noelci8846 You just don´t get his problem with blast. It´s hella unintuitive.
Do you have to take a look into an RPG´s manual to see if a Wizard throwing a fireball at a monster is considered magical fire damage?
@@Kerubu The problem isn´t with the mechanic at all. It looks like fire damage so why isn´t it treated as such? Why was it designed in a way to being unintuitive in the first place?
I don't like dps boss checks simply because I love to do attrition builds and outlast my enemies. This kind of defeats a Uber defense type build
That was the point of Alatreon. The challenge is specifically to push back against people who actively played it safe, it was a perfected counter to this playstyle so hard that the community flat out asked for a change, because that's how 90% of the players got through the fights. Playing tactfully is fine, but you set yourself up for an effortless failure in this fight.
The REAL crime is forcing all of that on the players and giving us dogshit armor set for the effort
0:40 I respect that mindset, but it cN only take you so far in MH, because of the time limit and ESPECIALLY with Alatreon because of its damage check mechanic.
I may have played MH for a long time but I remember being a new layer, and blast being different from fire was intuitive for me simply from the fact that they are different effects on the weapon, some weapons are fire and some weapons are blast, so they are clearly different, and then I intuitively figured out the difference from having them done to me fire slowly drained my health and blast made me explode for a quick burst of massive damage.
(Now I ended up being a little wrong about that, fire element weapons dont apply fireblight to monsters, but it is still noticeably different from blast)
And an explosion doing fire damage doesn't even make sense. The fire is not the thing doing damage, the concussive force is. The fire is only there for a millisecond.
That's like saying if you shoot someone up close with a blank from a gun it should do fire damage because of the muzzle flash, when it's the force that's doing the damage not the flash of sparks.
I'm also a very logical thinker and your logic seems slightly flawed on this subject.
I 100% agree with you here, and honestly to put it further, water is an element of the game and its weapons.... so why would my first assumption be to use an ice weapon on a fire elemental? Wouldn't I just use water? It'd be like if a firefighter came to your burning house with nothing but a bucket of ice thinking that the fire will magically disappear. Logically speaking that firefighter is going to be fired on the spot for that ridiculous thinking.
The problem most players have with Alatreon is being 'forced' to play a certain way. Here's the thing, it taught me a new way to play & now use what I learned on so many other hunts, thus improving me as a player. The training wheels were taken off. Rise to the challenge.
The problem isn't that Alatreon is hard. Alatreon is actually very easy, all of his moves are well telegraphed and easy to learn. But instead of making him actually hard like Fatalis, they gave him artificial difficulty in the form of the dps check instakill. It's lazy game design and pisses you off cause you know that this is a boss you should able to beat but the devs said "nuh uh".
The Irony in considering putting an actual mechanic "Artificial Difficulty" is actually pretty funny , how dare not every game be like Dark Souls and not have a single mechanic apart from dodges
git gud, son.
@@BigFloofer That’s so funny cause the mechanic literally makes the fight more like a dark souls fight 😭
@@SandmanOFC How ?
@@BigFloofer In the other fights in the game there’s phases and back and forth. Sometimes the monster gets exhausted and you have the advantage, sometimes it’s engraged and you’re on the back foot. You can use the environment to fight or find a safe place to heal. You can observe the monster from a distance to learn its moves and guage an approach. The monster regularly changes area allowing you to take a breather, recoup, or change strategy. It feels like you are actually hunting a fantasy creature. Alatreon forces you into a dodge, hit, dodge, hit, hyper aggressive playstyle attached to its hip so you don’t get nuked by the dps check, where alatreon has what seems to be infinite stamina and is constantly pressuring you while you’re in a circular boss Arena that never changes. Reminds me of another game I know…
The only problem i see with this monster is the fact that Capcom spoils very bad the community with the RAW power and ignoring element weakness for the most part of the game, you need to teach the hunters with previous "walls" and mechanics that elemental power matters.
I would love it if Capcom ever figured out how to make Elemental damage on slower weapons not terrible. In fact, they went backwards because in Freedom Unite on the PSP, elemental Heavy Bowgun was amazing and now it sucks.
@@TheTexasDice Ele is meta for hammer and hunting horn in Sunbreak
@@mrrodgers0 I thought only fast weapon is better at element? How hammer good with it? I using hammer and a look at guide said for hammer raw damage matter more.
Elemental HBG in Rise go brrrr
That just depends on your weapon. Element is much better on DBs and Bow, so it's encouraged to run elements rather than raw, and this is a World problem, Sunbreak's element system is much more balanced and stronger, and I hope Wilds does Sunbreak Element system than World's
Its normal if you mained a weapon that doesn't care about elements to be confused at alatreon. If you ran an element weapon before you are used to crafting multiple sets a d how to deal your damage. Like, a bow or a db main are very much aware how bad dravonblight is for them., but a greatsword main has never had that issue before.
Gs is also the most or second most played weapon in the game
And also a good weapon against alatreon if you just learn to build correctly.@@markjack9772
@@markjack9772 no it doesn’t, afaik for world and iceborne the top 3 was Longsword, dual blade and charge blade
@@Nelvin931217 if you talk to First Wyverian, GS is 2nd place. Charge blade is 5th.
@@markjack9772 pretty sure thats not true. Nr1 is also 100% ls.
Even so... How does that matter for what i said?
I have the mindset of getting better too but when you hit him every second of the battle and don't reach the elemental damage threshold it's time to upgrade
Also the elemental DPS check was much higher when the quest came out, Alatreon got nerfed sometime later
So this fight is mechanic heavy but you players are saying you can beat it without using all the mechanics?
What're we mad at then?
You can legit beat him without using any mechanic. But unlike bald man, most people don't even know that this boss have mechanic and being salty about it
yes, as long as a player deal enough damage and don't die to his normal attacks, a player can actually ignore every mechanics. Just eat the ultimate and go back in, they'll have around 21 or 28 minutes(with F.insurance) to fight which is more than enough. Which mean the people who complained about mechanics are not only refuse to learn the mechanics but also the lack the actual skill too.
There's a good chunk of players that brute forced Alatreon with raw weapon and we don't get to hear what their opinion because they didn't bitch about it.
@@ThePaoReturn true, i did it once for fun with GS and yes I do had to cart like twice (or was it thrice bcs i still have insurance) but i still manage to beat it. Bless fortify skill.
and I've seen a lot of Raw builds showcase can kill it either before or after first escaton.
people who beat him without mechanics, prob have gear from fatalis, a monster that requires you to beat alatreon to get to.( possible if their online team was really cracked, that even if one or two players did not contribute to element, they still made it) Or they have fought alatreon like 300+ times or somthing and can make some mythical perfect fight with trash gear.( but then they would know the mechanic already)
@@jeremycu4571I’ve beaten alatreon to challenge myself using pre fatty gear with sns and downed him with only two carts using safi blast sns.
It really was not that bad and there’s a video made by another creator not to long ago you can probably search up where he wanted to grind a raw kill on alatreon and was successful.
It’s as the first comments says, as long as you learn the fight and don’t cart to anything except judgments you really do have enough time to allow you down him whilst ignoring the mechanics.
Obviously only attempt this in solo lol.
Asmongold + monster hunter is the best combo. Hope to see more from you brother. Would be awesome seeing you learn and try all the weapons.
hes hated cause people hate using the elemental weapons which you need for alatreon
I think the problem imo (as a new hunter, World was my first), was Alatreon felt like it took your agency away. There is no hunt, no environment (other than the wall), you’re just plopped in an arena and told “no you’re going to use THIS gear and you’re going to play THIS way. Or stop playing scrub.” I know that isn’t everyone’s experience and Alatreon is totally beatable, it just felt like it flew in the face of everything people liked about the game. Just a thought
100% This. I beat him solo, but I wasn't happy about it. In fact, when it was all over I quit the game with the intention to come back, but... it just left a bitter taste in my mouth... I want to be able to win with the playstyle I find fun. I want to be able to break the parts of the monster I choose, to target the drops I want... Going exclusively for the head in a do or die mad dash was just... exhausting...
Challenging? Yes. Fun? No.
Also they had to ruin a great monster. A lot of old players (me included) were hyped when they announced his return, and disappointed when we didn't get to fight Alatreon but a flying gimmick with his skin
There’s already quite a few monsters that do this. Safi, Kulve, Ala, Fatalis, Shara, Xeno, and every arena quest monster. It is not a new concept. There are more in the other games too.
Most people have the monster researched already so the hunt part is really only relevant the first couple times.
The environment is a sad loss, but again it isn’t always useful or even present. Half the high-end fights don’t have relevant environmental tricks around them.
@@mrsanguini5819 yep, he always has been fought in an arena anyway, that's why the biggest problem is that it makes 85 to 100% of the gear you own useless and forces you to play a certain weapon in a certain way. Which is something he's the only one to do.
@@benkai9921 A certain weapon? You can play with any weapon. And so long as you’re aggressive enough with the elemental, you can play it any way. Some people even got the dps check with snowballs.
So unless the gear you’re talking about has no free gem slots, your gear isn’t useless. Just slot in element attack jewels. As for the weapon, it has to be element if you don’t want unavoidable carts, but that’s as far as the strictness goes.
This is the reason why 98% of hunters can't solo the big 3 endgame monsters: Alatreon, AT Vel, and Fatalis by themselves. In order to understand the maximum potential of their weapons. Its all about the timing and positioning. The game will become suprisingly fun when you get to that point but people love to complain
People nowadays are too used to rewards being given without working for it.
@14:00 Asmon if you watch your Character every debuff has a visual effect, Lightning Blight you spark with electricity, Ice Blight you have a cold aura on you, Water Blight you are dripping wet, Blast Blight you have a Powdery Effect that changes color, DRAGON BLIGHT is a red and black lightning aura like a Super Saiyan!
The icons up top have a red outline if its a debuff as well
the tenderize bullshit is the worst mechanic in this damn game
every time alatreon hits players with any physical attack itll have dragonblight except elements, also after your first hit by dragon blight handler will tell. for the indicators there is a purple trident above the healthbar, there is a black lightning around the player and your damage numbers are blue
Most physical attacks but not all iirc. Like the charge; claw and horn attacks, yes, but they show dragon aura. But tail hit etc, no, if i'm correct.
Blast was originally Slime. It was it's own thing until people complained that they make it a status since it has the same build up mechanic.
That's why it's listed as a status type now. Making it a elemental bight doesn't fit its mechanics because it has to *build up*. All the other elemental buffs are instant damage effects.
Got around 1000 hours in MHW, tons of Alatreon kills and i 100% agree with you, especially when complaining about the UI and unintuitive mechanics. This game tends to keep so may information implicit and so many unecessary complicated mechanics. When in the hell do you get warned about dragonblight ad its effects? When do you even read about it? IN THE ENDGAME? Oh probably agains't deviljho...when it doesn't matter and you forget about it later on. And the information is all spreaded around the hud. This game is extremely good, imperfect and no one has any reason to get shat on for "not playing the right way" or not reading shit because it's too much information anyways, this game is overwhelming.
I wound up brute forcing this guy with a dragon element glaive. This fight was nuts! That said, it was worth it as the follow up, fatalis was incredible
It was hated because endgame gear was all raw dmg based or blast. It forced all of us to use elemental gear. Once we switched to elemental the boss became manageable.
It will be always be funny to me to see many people who will be mad because they cant blitz the boss with one weapon they use when the game mechanic tells you an easier way but bringing more different gear which is weird when MH is all about having different weapon types of attributes especially if your maining a single weapon for most of the game. It takes practice to not die from Escaton but is practically doable. You just gotta know your game plan and have the gear available to do and if not, grind to get those which is the usual MH tactic. If you dont like the game mechanic or being forced to use another weapon then call a buddy.
Fr. I rather fight Alatreon than Fatalis.
"MH is all about having different weapon types of attributes especially if your maining a single weapon for most of the game" I have played most of GU, 3U, and 4U, and fought everything in World/Iceborne and Sunbreak. I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I've geniunely needed to swap elements or status to fight a Monster with Greatsword. You can brute force roughly 95%-99% of all Monsters in all games, the only time element or status even applies is very specific monsters, them being in my experience:
-Gogmazios
-Chameleos(Pre-Rise)
-Kushala species
Unless using Dual Blades or another elemental weapon type, you can just use the same weapon for damn near every monster.
What is an Escaton?
Most people are mad because Alatreon is a great ego check. It was similar in the base game with Tempered Kirin. Remember how you had to fight it to unlock tempered elders? And how many people whined on the forums that they cannot do it and die all the time? And that fight wasn't even that hard to begin with. As I said, it's an ego check. People think they are way better than they actually are, and when they get to try something beyond their skill level and get crushed, they lash out. Getting your ego crushed is painful for a lot of people.
@@ne1nch The one shot attack Alatreon does. IF you want top survive it, you need to get at least a single topple from elemental damage and then heal through it when it comes out. You know, that big explosion that Asmon died to.
I remember that before this fight, people opted for pure raw damage or poison/blast status effects, except for some special fights. It felt like this fight forced players into elemental damage builds, which the newer players tended to skip as they weren't as good as the other options.
However, right before Alatreon, we were introduced to the Safi'Jiiva raids, which gave us options for strong elemental builds (so we should've seen this coming).
Even so, I felt that the Extreme Behemoth fight was much harder at the time in comparison to Alatreon. It was a high rank fight but even then demanded good coordination. Even later I fought it again (with high rank equipment and parties) just for the enjoyment.
Unfortunately, with Alatreon. Better elemental weapons and gear that improves elemental attacks is actually needed. No amount of being a better combat hunter will not let you beat him.
In weapon/player stats they told you what kind of element you resist and blast is not in one of them because it is a status.. but if he want to stand with blast = fire, i cant argue with him..
Also, explosion is not a fire...
The weapon UI says "Element: Blast".
@@TheTexasDiceno it dosent
@@markjack9772it.. does..
players can easily check what is element and ailment just by the book ingame
@@TheTexasDice yes, that's why i said about element resist.. because status can be immune by skill, but not the elemental dmg
As someone who has just reached this boss, I can partly understand the rage. You don't really deal with an enemy like Alatreon at all until you deal with him, and hitting that wall can be frustrating when you haven't been forced to git gud up till then.
That being said, my training arc to solo this asshole has begun.
His most devastating move is aerial tripple slam and body slam cuz it force you om the ground and he can kill you for free, beware of those and you should be mostly fine.
There is an argument to be made that a pug group for this fight makes it harder. Especially if you use long sword. Plus. Alatreon moves from target to target fairly quick and out ranging you a ton, thus decreasing your dps by a huge margin. This boss is easier solo, depending on your weapon.
Agreed on the uptime in pugs, usually makes it harder to help ppl that run away too much. Especially as he doesn't have that many targeted attacks that dont lock him in place. Havent played ls a whole lot but i guess it's just as bad as gs.
Blast dose do fire damage but only on the pop of when it’s built enough to go off, the problem with bringing it into the altraon fight is that it’s not constantly doing fire damage.blast is considered a status because it has to build up like poison and as the fight goes on the monster becomes more resilient to these statuses so it takes longer to build up which doesn’t apply to elemental weaknesses
That’s cool, I didn’t know it did fire damage at the pop and I can understand it mechanically being a status but I don’t really understand why a lot of people get mad at people for using status effects instead of elements, people should be able to play how they want and I do think it is important to check the notes in the game to learn all of this, but I can agree with him that you shouldn’t have to check in game information to learn the stuff, I’m not sure if there would be an easy way to show this to the player.
@@kctheshadowman9651 I think people are specifically getting mad at people using statuses during Alatreon, and not in general. Against Alatreon, statuses aren't very useful, and the hunt DOES specifically tell you to use elements. If you use statuses, you don't build towards negating Escaton, which causes you to get one-shotted. If 3 people get one-shotted (and in most cases, there are four people in any given Alatreon hunt), then you automatically fail the quest. Even one person using status can throw off the quest, so it frustrates a lot of people when folks don't build around an element.
I was never able to defeat either Alatreon or Fatalis, they were always beyond me and I hated that I could never win.
From my understanding as im a new player there are elements in the game (which is water fire ice and thunder) and there are status effects (poison blast and paralyze)
An element applies elemental damage to targets that has a separate multiplier than raw attack.
Status effects builds up a certain effect proc a debuff like poison etc. this is why most blast builds rely on raw attack buffs
Dragon is basically both an element and a status effect. Dragon has dragon seal effect that has a chance to seal the elemental aura for elder dragons (ex teostra/lunastra's fire aura that damages u when ur close to them)
As a player who started with mhr it took me getting into world facing alatreon to even understand this
Fire blight, ice blight thunder blight and water blight I never seen a monster get these effects so they arent statuses that the player has access to but the monsters can give those to you
You're correct. Asmon literally implied real-world logic to a game with dragons, which is silly. But to be fair, World does a terrible job at showing how effective elemental damage is. That's something rise/sunbreak does better, as elemental damage is basically meta in that game. As long as you tenderize and run fatalis weapons with high dps, you can honestly beat any monster with one type of weapon. Fire, water, and ice blight never really affected monster as statuses until rise.
@@umbraoni4550 which is what I think is sucks that in the end game all meta sets are just fatalis gear i get that he's supposed to be the last monster but yeah.
I am yet to play my sunbreak as I got addicted to MHW now that you mentioned that monsters can get other status ailments makes me excited to continue my Rise playthrough
@@laron1231 it needs to be mentioned tho, that your weapons cant actually apply the elemental blight. however you can apply it with for example bugs you find on quests or your palicos with certain gadgets
i too thought blast was elemental until i looked it up, my logic was simply it does non-raw damage and its not DoT, so elemental damage by process of elimination
the way blast damage actually works with status buildup is completely hidden and far from intuitive to people used to other games, it just felt like random proc explosive dmg
He lost me when he said Blastblight/Blast should be an element 😂
The complaints are about being forced to change style to very specific one to beat the boss. For example I use mostly gunlance, normally 50/50 between melee damage and explosions; and elemental is not even a factor in the build. To beat Alatreon I have to switch fighting style to just using melee attacks, and switch out all of my gear boosting explosive damage in favour of elements.
Meta for most weapon types in MHW is using raw damage, so almost everyone has to do some switch of their gear and style.
You can kill alatreon with raw before he kills you 3 times.
Alatreon came after Safi didn't it? Safi made elem builds viable...
@@automato436 Safi (at the time) was a multiplayer-exclusive RNG raid boss. You can imagine that solo players had no desire to interact with the Siege and Safi.
6 months later
This is still 100% skill issue
Something that isn't touched upon much here is the state of the game back when Alatreon released. As someone who beat him back in the day, while the fun itself was fun (bar that damn horn break mechanic being absurd in multiplayer lobbies) the issue came from the community and the grind required itself. The most efficient and effective elemental weapons were obtained from the previous hunt, Safi'Jiiva, a TIMED raid quest that required 16 people in a lobby to do efficiently and was an RNG fest the likes of which hadn't been seen in the series since MH4 (and no one liked it).
Whilst yes, the elemental damage of certain weapons is tweaked in the fight to make the DPS check reasonable for the slower or methodical weapons, like GS and Lance, that wasn't known during the release window, and once word got out of how brutal the fight was, I saw and heard stories of people getting kicked from lobbies because they weren't using viable elemental weapons. Let alone Bowguns, which were utterly fucked due to the fact you couldn't go back to base camp and restock ammo halfway through the fight, and elemental ammo is extremely limited.
The issue with Alatreon wasn't that it was too hard and it allienated a part of the fanbase, but rather it highlighted the underlying balance issues present in the game up to that point, and due to two small changes (the DPS horn break check and the innability to use farcasters at ANY point of the fight in order to adapt to the current element and restock items and ammo for Gunners) made it a blemish in an endgame that was already struggling in the eyes of many. Thankfully, the follow up fight, Fatalis, is 100% worth it, but the bad taste that Alatreon left in the community's collective mouth never quite went away.
TLDR - the reason why Alatreon is so hated in the world community
Alatrreon is a all in one
- DPS check
- elemental DPS check
- survivability check
- equipment check
- utility check
- part break check
- skill check
All while having stunlock instakill combos. Elemental negating Dragon blight and refusal of lowering his head / de engraving for a mandatory part break. He's not a bad boss persay he's just not typically fun for 90% of people and the fact that you have to fight him before you can fight the best fight in Monster Hunter fatalis really gets to people.
What? There's only a ele DPS check and a part break check. And you're the only person to complain about hitting Alatreon's head, when he has it front and centre and easy to hit after almost all of his combos. Not to mention Alatreon doesn't have a true combo even after his pin, so there are no guaranteed zero to deaths if you aren't getting one shot (and if you are... that's a gear issue).
It's because when Alatreon released, everybody was running around with Unga Bunga Raw and Blast Builds with Max DPS sets and no defense or defensive skills. So naturally, an Elemental Boss with DPS Checks and hard-hitting moves made them mad cause they couldn't just do a brain-dead hunt
@@bonel0rd326 true but even those of us that had all the gear pre farmed for the fight did struggle Tring to build for all the criteria above ele DMG, part break, survivability, support etc it really seemed like they wanted people to have designated roles in the fight when playing in a group or suffer through the juggling 6 mechanics solo
@@meathir4921 there is NOT only a ele DPS check you NEED to kill him in 3 rotations if playing in a group like 90% of people will. With HP values of ~52,500(solo), ~79,000(duo), 118,125(3 or 4 players) he also does have true combos with his high stun values similar to black diablos charge attack and lightning dmg combos if unlucky enough will lead to a cart. I get you fought the dogshit easy quest version but maybe go fight the actual alatreon a few times before a take like DMG doesn't matter on a time gated phase gated fight
@@user-ov8cu5ff2y I've literally beaten the fight only getting hit by Escaton and the fire floors from the oil puddles.
The 3 rotations kill should really not be an issue. Anyone with even a half decent weapon can kill in sub 18 mins.
If you're including stun combos... no shit every monster has stun combos
This boss basically skill checks you to make sure you can then fight fatalis!
Which is THE end game boss
And after you feel good beating fatalis AT velkhana wrecks you
Love the emphasis you put on Fatalis being THE final boss. To me, Fatalis is the final boss of Monster Hunter as a whole.
I beat this monster alone and with others and I still hate the gimmicks
agree lol it’s just the dumb dps check but alatreon design and moves is cool asf
@@quentinb734don't know why it's hard for people to listen when we say escaton judgement itself (and the farming even if it's fast) is the problem not the rest of alatreon moveset
"Explosions create fire via combustion, so it should be an element, I thought it was an element" is just absurd cope, I'm sorry.
1.) There's already a fire element in the game, it would make little sense to have two things that function essentially the same. Even besides that, blast operates on buildup, rather than being additonal damage with every hit. There are visual indicators that show this.
2.) You're applying real life logic to a video game. That only works if the game is operating on that logic. Blast can ABSOLUTELY be a status in this instance
3.) You did not know for sure that it was an element. If you don't know something, then you should always google it OR try and confirm it in some way beforehand. There's no shame in being wrong. Even if you thought for SURE, you should always double check.
4.) It's an explosion, of course it looks like fire. But its not fire. It's an explosion.
5.) Even operating on this logic, it STILL makes no sense. You went and fought a FIRE MONSTER (or at least a monster that produced fire) with something that you came to the conclusion PRODUCED FIRE. You were, operating on real world logic, trying to quite literally fight fire with fire. Which, according to real world logic, makes no sense.
6.) The game often tells you what is and isn't an element. Velkhana set skill lists all of the elements in game. Assuming you grinded velk armor at this point (Don't remember if you had by the time this video came out) , I would assume at some point you would have read the set skill at least once or twice. The game also tells you this in the Play Guide, and in tips during loading screens sometimes. (also elemental resistances on armor.)
7.) Blast was originally called Slime (See MHTri(? dont remember which specific monhun it was) and was originally classed as a status. Then it was changed to Blast and given to other monsters (see Teo, Dodogama, Congalala, etc.) That's why it's a status.'
I mean seriously, OPENING THE PAUSE MENU shows you what qualifies an element. You can see them all at the bottom right of the screen.
I "Cheesed" it with sticky lbg (original, I know). You would faint two times, but if you managed to land 90% of the shots to the head, then you would kill it before the third escaton.
My issue with Alatreon is it takes a game about build diversity and throws it out the window forcing you to build a certain way. Once the lads and I beat it years ago we never touched it again. If they want to present unique fights in the future, I hope they resemble extreme behemoth and not this.
I did not know dragon blight makes your elemental damage to zero. i just thought it will make the monsters dragon attack higher.
anyone saying monster hunter elements are not confusing for first time players are lying.
I’ll give you just some examples:
explosions from bazelgeuse scales cause fire damage, and have no relation to blast.
explosions from a brachydios puddle cause fire damage and has no relation with blast, but touching the puddle before it explodes causes blast blight, and when given enough time will explode, and cause damage, but will not cause fire damage.
and barrel bomb explosions are not fire damage, they do a set amount of raw damage that negates defense of a monster, but a hunter’s defense value will lessen the damage taken.
if anyone says this is not confusing and arbitrary, they are just lying to your face.
Not confusing at all. It's only confusing if you're min-maxing element/status resist(or nullifier).
Most player went with offensive skill anyway. The only thing that we need to know is how to remove the debuff if we get one.
@@mfs96 There goes lyin' Ted.
Just sounds like projection. "It was confusing to me, so obviously everyone else is lying about not being confused the first time.". Yea OK
@@mfs96 "It's not confusing, it's only confusing if you try to build around it" Lmfao
@@soleo2783 I only play old MH games. Min-maxing elemental resistance is harder than it looks. But it's just easy to get out of their blight.
another problem with endgame monster that came through title updates is that their Master Rank requirement is low
Alatreon quest is available at MR24 (raging brachydios is also MR24 but it didn't had a guaranteed instadeath dps check)
while in the base iceborne Gold Rathian quest is only available at MR70
So a player that was MR70+ probably had a better preparation when alatreon update came
be equipment, decorations or overall game experience
im pretty sure you need to hunt tempered monster guilding lands to maxout upgrade armour. tempered monster in guilding lands appear only mrank 99.
you are in, get hit once you die territory. even if you have end game fatalis gear. because it cannot be upgraded to the fullest until mrank99.
I just love that he has a Grooky on the background.
ahh yes the misleading blast element
we all been through that bs, admit it
the problem is how elemental damage and especially how elemental motion values were implemented in world for slow weapons (it's fixed in mhsb now)
that's why it divided the community because if you were lucky, your weapon would be already doing enough elemental damage with the appropriate build
if not you'd have to cheese the fight by speedruining using fortify and feline insurance, dying purposefully at the escaton to come back with more dmg
They gave elemental damage multipliers to all the weapons that struggled with element in this fight. The devs already catered to this problem.
@@mrsanguini5819 if you are talking about the topple threshold those were never adjusted after release IIRC and the values for hammer is the same as LS/HH/Lance/CB both in multiplier and threshold values
and you probably already know how considerably slower hammer is in comparison to those
@@uwyphi That’s true, but doesn’t it stand to reason that weapons with better elemental output will do better on an element-based fight?
Complaining about that would be like complaining that all weapons should have the same amount of elemental damage output. It’s just not so. Some weapons have more, some have less, just like how some weapons have better raw dps than others.
At the end of the day, what matters is that all weapons can clear it using the required strat (that is, using element). And ALL the weapons have been proven to be able to hit elemental topple without Fatalis/Alatreon builds.
@@mrsanguini5819 I'm not complaining about the weapon damage design in itself, i'm complaining about the combination of a boss mechanic and the weapon damage design
>ALL the weapons have been proven to be able to hit elemental topple without Fatalis/Alatreon builds.
Hammer cannot realistically topple in the first phase, you can watch TA Wiki SpeedRuns for confirmation, they cart at first escaton because that's more efficient than doing the mechanic that has obviously not been properly adjusted for that weapon
Again the weapon design and the boss mechanic aren't to blame individually, it's the combination of both
I carted 50 times and learn it's moveset til I killed Alatreon. It took me 1 day only. The feeling I get when I have jerky when it use escaton and it's element weakened is the best feeling like "proof of hero" playing in a background when battling fatalis in weakened state. In short trying and trying and researching is the best way to finish the game if your a newbie.
Someone needs to tell asmon that what he does is like going into a level 60 dungeon with level 45 gear and thinking he’s just bad at the game when he dies
in all MH series there are just 5 black dragons and he is one of them , they won't equal his power with same power as elder dragons. black dragons is strongest class in MH lore , he must be strong.
The issue for me wasnt the difficulty, its that I needed a very specific loadout to properly combat it and had to completely leve a specific set of weapons for it. I dont know why but that just really pissed me off that they added a grind you had to commit to before you even where allowed entry into his encounter. or atleast this was what I was told, was told later you didnt need to but by then I had not touched MHW in ages
I thought you like grinding playing MH
God forbid you can't just use your raw damage or blast weapon DLC Comfort set to Unga Bunga through a new mechanic. Every Elder Dragon DLC comes with a new gimmick, and the one that actually asked you to make gear is somehow annoying?
Every dual blade, bow, light bow gun, insect glaive, and sword and shield user really wonder why this concept of making multiple weapons is so hard for the younger generation.
If there was more bosses like that it would be fine, but this is literally the only boss like this @@Insanity2thePrawn
@delaran6243 you can meet the dps check with any weapon, just needed to bring a different element for your weapon and change some skills around.
@@Insanity2thePrawn yes its annoying. This is just a gimmick. Not to mention its a out of combat gimmick which makes it even more terrible. The boss should be able to be done with any build as long as you are good enough. A skill check essentially.
Asmongold is 100% correct about the Blast and UI confusion.
Yes, the game does tell you about Dragonblight and I'm the last person who would advocate for more handholding (especially since the NPC and the textbox explain it). But he is objectively correct that putting the positive icons and the negative icons in the same position on the UI is confusing.
Same thing with Blast: Blast looks like a fire explosion. In fact, gunlance shells and sticky ammo have a modicum of fire damage attached to them. It makes perfect sense for someone who NEVER played monster hunter before to be confused by blast isn't an element.
Keep in mind, I have played this series since the first PSP game and you possible have played for two weeks. What I consider "obvious" isn't obvious to you at all.
You can craft fire element weapons and blast status weapons. If the two effects were meant to do the same type of damage, why do they exist separately? What makes them distinct from one another? Well, based off the simple fact that one is an element and the other is a status effect. I feel like the majority of new players would apply that kind of logic before thinking of combustion lol
@@mamagalebi Your argument immediately falls apart because the UI for the weapon says "Element: Blast".
Also, the game never tells you "Bring a Fire Weapon", it says "Bring an Elemental Weapon". And if you go into your UI and read "Element: Blast" and it turns out "Element: Blast" isn't actually an Element, you wouldn't be confused?
@@TheTexasDice with that logic did you think poison was a element
I personally cant relate because i read the Hunter notes and world wasn't my first monster Hunter game
@@TheTexasDiceit won't be any problem if people do actually read Hunter Notes. There are so many basic things covered there.
I've seen so many streamer who's new to MH games didn't bother reading it and fumble around and had to be assisted by their viewer even though it's just basic knowledge.
I mean, it's a common sense to check in game settings, all available menu and tutorial first if you're new to the game. But it seems people didn't do that
@@markjack9772 You need to turn off your "Poison is obviously not an element, I've known that for over 10 years" -braincell. Because not everyone has played monster hunter for over 10 years and not everyone has spent months on the wikis or youtube tutorials explaining the game to you.
Take a step back, unplug yourself and read that sentence you just wrote again: "With that logic, did you think [Element: Poison] was an element?"
I find it funny that this can be solved by just reading the skill description on the armor set.
I'd argue blast and fire are different in the same sense that ice and water are different. Sure, fire (water) is a part of the element, but the way it's being applied is totally different. Concussive force (being cold) is different than heat (being wet)
I love how he just got into MH and yet he FULLY understood that "git good" is the way
People advance in the game ignoring a lot of information that the game offers, the information about elemental weapons is yet another piece of information that they ignore, and they only start paying attention when they can't complete the quest and get frustrated, ''what do you mean now I have to learn playing the game?''
i still can't get over the fact that people think that a mega-endgame Black Dragon boss...shouldn't...be...hard...?
What's more this is the hardest boss in the game IMO. Yeah the DPS check for Fatalis is tighter, but Alatreon's attacks, movements, and general style of the fight is just more difficult. He's a lot faster and more aggressive than Fatalis is. Fatalis is just stupidly punishing and hits much harder and has a tight DPS check.
@@WisdomAkpan211 nice 😎
My issue with alatreon is that It's the ONLY boss in the entire game where you're forced to stack proper gear for the fight. I loved just getting more damage/while looking good. It's annoying that I had to completely change my playstyle to defeat him.
I don't hate it because it's hard "because it's not"
I hate it because it's a fucking gimmick. It's breaks the cycle that made the world look and feel immersive and its gimmicky just for the sake of trying to be difficult.
People just want they're hand held through everything these days and made easy. If you want to do end-game, just understand that you opt in for hard content, and if you can't understand that for whatever reason, then it's not for you.
I strongly recommend using blight res 3 for this hunt. Being dragonblighted is essentially a cart if you cannot cure it in time, but other blights like ice can also be detrimental in the run.
Equip a weapon with as much elemental damage as you can find. Frostfang barioth would be a great one for ice. Have your palico equip gear that has ice damage too (e.g. shrieking legiana)
Velkhana (4) is great for greatsword, but other faster weapons only need velkhana (2) and then anything else that gives criteye/WExploit and elemental damage.
Alatreon is a gigachad. End of story.
If you can't do the fight again after raging or the day after, it's YOUR problem!
Terrible designed boss I don’t blame asmon if he doesn’t finish this fight. I think he will have more fun in rise especially with the wirebug movement.
Just get good, bro.
@@ollievirus6695 I knew someone was gonna say this lol but I already beat him, it was with a random good squad tho.
he's going to hate rise! he already said multiple time that he hate not having max health in a game. With spiritbird? yeah he gonna love the game 😂
@@jayxkensh1n494 hes right tho its a skill issue even with good gear wont still help u
@@92rumar92 Damn I didn’t even think about that😭. I hope he at least gives rise a chance tho it has amazing monsters.
The "better gear" Vs "better play" is an interesting one. Me and my bf have very different approaches to this. He spends hours researching weaknesses, strategies, optimal weapons for a certain enemy, while I just concentrate on doing everything perfectly.
Bro getting new gear is half the game. That's one of my favorite parts of the game. You wanna get better at playing and have better gear.
The only thing I want to say is:
If you think Alatreon is hard, wait until you meet Fatalis.
There you will know the true meaning of terror
He’s great
Great boss design is all it is, gg.
He's right. Kushala is annoying until you get windproof, flash pods and poison weapon. Suddenly he's easy because you're well prepared.
It is the delineation between Teostra and Lunastra. one is element. one is blight/status
Bro I get it. Asmongold is a new player so he makes mistakes, and forgets mechanics and that's ok. But don't try to blame it on the game when there are tons of in game tutorials which you didn't bother to read. It doesn't matter if he thinks blast should be an element instead of an ailment. If you bothered to understand the game, you should instantly understand that elelments don't inflict status effects, so blast is obviously an ailment. Just admit you got confused and stop blaming the game you don't bother to understand.