I'll co-sign on the Avid 2448 Pro. One of the best purchases I've ever made. It is a BEAST for making fixtures and it is the most reliable machine in my shop.
I work with CNC for a living (tool and die maker), so it naturally translated into my guitar-building hobby. I couldn't justify the expense of a commercially available machine, so I designed and built my own. My machine has travels of 24" x 36" and a 3HP 24k RPM spindle. I'm into this machine for about $2K. It is great to be able to go into my basement and machine anything I can design!
@David Lewis i used the Acorn and I love it. My son and I had some previous experience with Mach 3. We new we had to find something better than that! The Acorn setup was pretty much plug and play for us.
@David Lewis we ended up setting up an XBOX controller. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good. We also drove all our axes with some low budget servos we took a chance on. Smooth, fast and torquey!
I'd love to see more details about your mill, thinking about using microstepping boards from gecko and just a 3 phase motor driven off a vfd for the spindle, I fall into a black hole on the post processor though, bobCAD, Mach 3, flashcut, linuxCNC... it always made my brain hurt trying to figure that part out!
Phenomenal video. I bought a cnc machine because I wanted to learn how to program one and use it to build a business. My biggest issue has been understanding what the market demand is for cnc made products. So far I’ve used it very successfully to build a lot of templates for myself. But still trying to understand the market. I’d love for it to be a money maker for me.
Thanks for putting this together. You brought this brand to my attention now and I can see the benefits of assembling your own. Great to hear that you haven’t done a thing to it in five years too, as reliability and durability are so important. Thanks!
I've had my Shopbot Buddy for 14 years now and use it daily, 4 to 6 hours a day. It rolled out of the crate fully assembled. It's never needed repair of any part. It's an incredibly accurate American made machine with a very ridged frame and quality parts. The forum consisting of worldwide users to me is the best reason to be a Shopbot owner. You can always find a solution for whatever design problem you may run into. Plus it uses the best software in the industry, Vectric Aspire.
Uh oh, Chris is looking more gray. I hope all of us RUclips a-holes aren't stressing you out! Love your vids, keep it up! I love the dynamic between you two. I'm always down for a bad pun.
just as a parallel, i've been making and selling 3D models online for over twenty years, things have slowed down because everyone has 3D software these days and i frankly can't be bothered to make, render upload and write descriptions for new models, for the return, but the point being the models sell over and over, i only had to make them once and i have an infinite supply - the weirdest sales being a set of virtual nuts and bolts, and a virtual chain link fence that have made $1000's for me over the years. and still do once in a while.
I have to agree wholeheartedly! My CNC is the best investment I have made in my business. Mine is running almost constantly and is the number one source of revenue for my businesses. Like you, I purchased mine for my lutherie business, but I soon realized that this machine could make so many other things. I also agree that the Avid is an amazing machine and was on my short list when I bought mine. But, while I was doing my research, I came across a little known brand out of Canada that ended up blowing me away! I love everything about them except their name: CNC4Newbies. My machine is very similar to yours 24 x 48, rack and pinion. The build quality is on a par with Avid as well. They also have a very supportive user base on FB as well as a US guy who will video call you if you ever run into problems. But the biggest advantage for me was the difference in cost, my machine cost just under $4000.00 plus about $1000.00 for a spindle, vcarve Pro, bits etc. I don't post this as a "dis" against your machine as I think that Avid makes great machines, but just as alternative for your viewers to consider in their search. One way or the other, a CNC changes everything!
Watching you run the roundover bit in the router table with your fingers that close gave me a serious case of the butt-puckers! Stay ten fingered man, I need to see what cool stuff you make next!
Hey Chris and Matt! I love watching your videos and I will probably never build a guitar. Love the hand built care and expertise while rolling in some good old engineering goodness at the same time(Mech Eng by trade). I’m now working in the IT field. You said forever and perpetuity a lot during this video. All I thought every time you said that was does he have a proper backup solution that includes on and offsite backup. It would be a terrible day if you lost all of that IP. I’m not selling anything. I just wanted to put a bug in your ear about backups.
Very informative video that answers a lot of potential questions. But the biggest question I have is why in the world would you use walnut for something as utilitarian as a paint handle? I can think of many uses of a "higher calling" than a paint stick to collect overspray. Also, if you want to do true 3-D, you can upgraded it to Aspire for just the difference in cost.
Most builders think CNC = easy Neck Carve. Not so if you are building acoustics so you hit it right with the advice here.. Most small builders can't afford $18K or the room for such a large machine.. My machine cost me $3000, has a small footprint (sits on a 36" x 24" table) and will do most of what I want for my ukulele and all the inlay work for my mate's acoustic guitars. Vectric software is a brilliant choice if you want to minimise the 'learning curve'. Great informative video and yes, you have to give this machine 'outside' work rather than have it sit idle most of the time.
A decent CNC isn't justifiable for me. If you build 12 guitars a year (which is typical for a solo high end luthier), at $18,000. I'd rather buy 120 CNC'ed necks at $150 each (bought from Stewmac with their luthier program).... so an $18k cnc would take 10 years to pay for itself, not including maintenance and tooling etc. Not to mention the months of learning to programing etc. Still, a nice piece of kit!
Lots of talk about the CNC machines but not much on how to get started. I installed fusion 360 to try to learn. It didn't take long to realize how much of a time investment it was going to take to drive it. No matter which software is used, it will still have a big learning curve. I was wondering, how long did it take just to be able to get your paint stick into the system and a paint stick is nothing compared to the work of a 3D guitar neck. I was an electrical/software/network/database engineer for 30 years and still found it very difficult to learn.
Fusion 360 is incredibly difficult to figure out at first, and still is for to this day. I only use it for complex 3D parts. 90% of my CAD and CAM work is done with VCarve Pro. It’s suuuuper easy to operate and figure out on your own, and only takes a couple of weeks of casual use to get good at it.
@@DriftwoodGuitars So 2D is one thing and I would be able to learn that in a reasonable time. Something like a neck or the curved top of a PRS is a 3D process. Can VCarve Pro handle 3d shapes? I have boxes or small pieces of ebony, koa on and on. Now way I can get rid fo them. Really would like to CNC them into something that most likely would be a 3d process. And by the way, tanks for all the great videos and information. I have to admit I hate to you saw all those guitars in halve but I guess it's the only way to pass along that kind of information.
Nice and interesting vid, but what is that thing you're making? As a non-english speaker, I don't really understand what you say. Pain handle? Paint handle? Pane handle? Pig handle? Please tell me or explain...
Paint handle. It refers to a wide stick you cab attach to the guitar bolt-on neck pocket, to make painting the guitar body easier to control, while avoiding the need to touch a freshly painted body. It also keeps paint out of the neck pocket.
Do you have any interest in cutting some parts for other builders? I designed some original electric body and headstock styles that are still relatively classic in simplicity, but I'd like them CNC'd for consistency.
Something I was thinking of while watching is: in all the handheld router videos they explain about routing direction, climb cuts and whatnot to prevent tearout. In all the CNC routing explanations I never hear about that aspect. Is that not a factor in CNC routing? Or do you indicate grain direction in the software and the routing direction is adjusted accordingly? How does that work?
I agree with you. I've seen some suggestions in Fusion 360 to use conventional cutting instead of climb cuts on hardwood but I'm still experimenting. You can control the direction of the cuts but in Fusion at least, it's operator choice, the software is not smart in that way (grain direction).
does anyone have a software that has a library for guitar dimensions of classics and known models? is that a thing? so you dont have to design it completely in cad
Chris, would you agree that, as a luthier, you now have an instrument building business that produces 'assembled-by-hand' instead of 'hand-made' instruments ?
the work you do is beautiful. but, you ever feel like you are just assembling lego when so many parts are done on cnc, lasers, thicknesing is done by drum sander, binding channels are routed etc etc? i know its about consistency and speed, but doesn't it start feeling like mass production at some point not any different from any custom shop guitar? not arguing results, they are great :) personally i think there is something lost in the process when going for power tools. not saying it matters for the end result (or if people had these tools they could do the same without great deal of learning), but when i look at baroque instrument and know that its all hand guided dumb tools with detail on insane level like your work, it feels different. again, like the work you do and the advice you offer and maybe you have some kind of "stance" on this subject.
You just dıscovered accurate peasants in machine form. And realised ıt. And admitted it. Then you admitted that Matt is secondary to the machine. That's not rıght. You're on workshop tea making for the next two weeks at least. Or until Matt forgives you. ;)
Don't forget a really good backup plan for that PC!! Don't want to lose any of those lovely files!
I would hope anyone in 2022 is uploading to the cloud
I'll co-sign on the Avid 2448 Pro. One of the best purchases I've ever made. It is a BEAST for making fixtures and it is the most reliable machine in my shop.
I work with CNC for a living (tool and die maker), so it naturally translated into my guitar-building hobby. I couldn't justify the expense of a commercially available machine, so I designed and built my own. My machine has travels of 24" x 36" and a 3HP 24k RPM spindle. I'm into this machine for about $2K. It is great to be able to go into my basement and machine anything I can design!
@David Lewis i used the Acorn and I love it. My son and I had some previous experience with Mach 3. We new we had to find something better than that! The Acorn setup was pretty much plug and play for us.
@David Lewis we ended up setting up an XBOX controller. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good. We also drove all our axes with some low budget servos we took a chance on. Smooth, fast and torquey!
I'd love to see more details about your mill, thinking about using microstepping boards from gecko and just a 3 phase motor driven off a vfd for the spindle, I fall into a black hole on the post processor though, bobCAD, Mach 3, flashcut, linuxCNC... it always made my brain hurt trying to figure that part out!
Phenomenal video. I bought a cnc machine because I wanted to learn how to program one and use it to build a business. My biggest issue has been understanding what the market demand is for cnc made products.
So far I’ve used it very successfully to build a lot of templates for myself. But still trying to understand the market. I’d love for it to be a money maker for me.
Thanks for putting this together. You brought this brand to my attention now and I can see the benefits of assembling your own. Great to hear that you haven’t done a thing to it in five years too, as reliability and durability are so important. Thanks!
Great vid! Chris! I have the same unit with the 8.7hp spindle. I use it for everything! David
I've had my Shopbot Buddy for 14 years now and use it daily, 4 to 6 hours a day. It rolled out of the crate fully assembled. It's never needed repair of any part. It's an incredibly accurate American made machine with a very ridged frame and quality parts. The forum consisting of worldwide users to me is the best reason to be a Shopbot owner. You can always find a solution for whatever design problem you may run into. Plus it uses the best software in the industry, Vectric Aspire.
Uh oh, Chris is looking more gray. I hope all of us RUclips a-holes aren't stressing you out! Love your vids, keep it up! I love the dynamic between you two. I'm always down for a bad pun.
Chris. You are a great teacher and resource. I have learned some really good tips from you.
just as a parallel, i've been making and selling 3D models online for over twenty years, things have slowed down because everyone has 3D software these days and i frankly can't be bothered to make, render upload and write descriptions for new models, for the return, but the point being the models sell over and over, i only had to make them once and i have an infinite supply - the weirdest sales being a set of virtual nuts and bolts, and a virtual chain link fence that have made $1000's for me over the years. and still do once in a while.
I have to agree wholeheartedly! My CNC is the best investment I have made in my business. Mine is running almost constantly and is the number one source of revenue for my businesses. Like you, I purchased mine for my lutherie business, but I soon realized that this machine could make so many other things. I also agree that the Avid is an amazing machine and was on my short list when I bought mine. But, while I was doing my research, I came across a little known brand out of Canada that ended up blowing me away! I love everything about them except their name: CNC4Newbies. My machine is very similar to yours 24 x 48, rack and pinion. The build quality is on a par with Avid as well. They also have a very supportive user base on FB as well as a US guy who will video call you if you ever run into problems. But the biggest advantage for me was the difference in cost, my machine cost just under $4000.00 plus about $1000.00 for a spindle, vcarve Pro, bits etc. I don't post this as a "dis" against your machine as I think that Avid makes great machines, but just as alternative for your viewers to consider in their search. One way or the other, a CNC changes everything!
That’s great info! Thanks.
Why is there such a disparity in build cost? Consumables? Overall parts materials and quality, or a variety of things?
Love your channel! Great videos. Thanks for the video on your CNC.
Okay, who put the eyes on the CNC machine? Matt!
Watching you run the roundover bit in the router table with your fingers that close gave me a serious case of the butt-puckers! Stay ten fingered man, I need to see what cool stuff you make next!
Great video guys! I would Love to get in to the cnc world soon ! Thanks for the info:)
Hey Chris and Matt! I love watching your videos and I will probably never build a guitar. Love the hand built care and expertise while rolling in some good old engineering goodness at the same time(Mech Eng by trade).
I’m now working in the IT field. You said forever and perpetuity a lot during this video. All I thought every time you said that was does he have a proper backup solution that includes on and offsite backup. It would be a terrible day if you lost all of that IP. I’m not selling anything. I just wanted to put a bug in your ear about backups.
I have thinking about getting a CNC system for a home design studio.
I'm in the process of learning to make mandolins with my Longmill mk2 CNC. Currently trying to decide what software to use.
Thank you for the insight and details.
Very informative video that answers a lot of potential questions. But the biggest question I have is why in the world would you use walnut for something as utilitarian as a paint handle? I can think of many uses of a "higher calling" than a paint stick to collect overspray. Also, if you want to do true 3-D, you can upgraded it to Aspire for just the difference in cost.
They’re “bespoke” haha. Yeah we use Fusion 360 for 3D work
Most builders think CNC = easy Neck Carve. Not so if you are building acoustics so you hit it right with the advice here.. Most small builders can't afford $18K or the room for such a large machine.. My machine cost me $3000, has a small footprint (sits on a 36" x 24" table) and will do most of what I want for my ukulele and all the inlay work for my mate's acoustic guitars. Vectric software is a brilliant choice if you want to minimise the 'learning curve'. Great informative video and yes, you have to give this machine 'outside' work rather than have it sit idle most of the time.
Hey i make guitars from driftwood too! Cool brother!
A decent CNC isn't justifiable for me.
If you build 12 guitars a year (which is typical for a solo high end luthier), at $18,000.
I'd rather buy 120 CNC'ed necks at $150 each (bought from Stewmac with their luthier program).... so an $18k cnc would take 10 years to pay for itself, not including maintenance and tooling etc. Not to mention the months of learning to programing etc. Still, a nice piece of kit!
They also make the tidalcasters now
Lots of talk about the CNC machines but not much on how to get started. I installed fusion 360 to try to learn. It didn't take long to realize how much of a time investment it was going to take to drive it. No matter which software is used, it will still have a big learning curve. I was wondering, how long did it take just to be able to get your paint stick into the system and a paint stick is nothing compared to the work of a 3D guitar neck. I was an electrical/software/network/database engineer for 30 years and still found it very difficult to learn.
Fusion 360 is incredibly difficult to figure out at first, and still is for to this day. I only use it for complex 3D parts. 90% of my CAD and CAM work is done with VCarve Pro. It’s suuuuper easy to operate and figure out on your own, and only takes a couple of weeks of casual use to get good at it.
@@DriftwoodGuitars So 2D is one thing and I would be able to learn that in a reasonable time. Something like a neck or the curved top of a PRS is a 3D process. Can VCarve Pro handle 3d shapes? I have boxes or small pieces of ebony, koa on and on. Now way I can get rid fo them. Really would like to CNC them into something that most likely would be a 3d process. And by the way, tanks for all the great videos and information. I have to admit I hate to you saw all those guitars in halve but I guess it's the only way to pass along that kind of information.
Nice and interesting vid, but what is that thing you're making? As a non-english speaker, I don't really understand what you say. Pain handle? Paint handle? Pane handle? Pig handle? Please tell me or explain...
Paint handle. It refers to a wide stick you cab attach to the guitar bolt-on neck pocket, to make painting the guitar body easier to control, while avoiding the need to touch a freshly painted body. It also keeps paint out of the neck pocket.
@@jamesdeananderson1411 Thank you, that makes sense.
Do you have any interest in cutting some parts for other builders? I designed some original electric body and headstock styles that are still relatively classic in simplicity, but I'd like them CNC'd for consistency.
getting pretty grey these days Chris...earned every grey hair..keep up the great work.
I think you're the only person on RUclips who actually paid for their Avid CNC machine :)
Something I was thinking of while watching is: in all the handheld router videos they explain about routing direction, climb cuts and whatnot to prevent tearout. In all the CNC routing explanations I never hear about that aspect. Is that not a factor in CNC routing? Or do you indicate grain direction in the software and the routing direction is adjusted accordingly? How does that work?
I agree with you. I've seen some suggestions in Fusion 360 to use conventional cutting instead of climb cuts on hardwood but I'm still experimenting. You can control the direction of the cuts but in Fusion at least, it's operator choice, the software is not smart in that way (grain direction).
Did I hear you correctly? You're doing a run of 10 Tidalcasters?
Actually a run of 30 total!
does anyone have a software that has a library for guitar dimensions of classics and known models? is that a thing? so you dont have to design it completely in cad
视频很好 加油加油😋
Of course it is worth it. Take a look at your price list. :-)
Chris, would you agree that, as a luthier, you now have an instrument building business that produces 'assembled-by-hand' instead of 'hand-made' instruments ?
He has a whole video on this, which explains exactly why the answer to your question would be "no."
Please excuse my ignorance, what is a paint handle/stick? 😂
Those are used to attach to electric guitar bodies to paint them
@@orkboy59 👍🏻
1. Attach paint stick to body where neck would attach; 2) Hang guitar in spray booth from paint stick; 3) Paint.
@@larrycoon3794 Thanks 👍🏻
I’m upset you or Matt didn’t make a CNC-Music Factory joke
What’s funny is that I emailed a week or so ago about what type of cnc machine this was hahahahaha
the work you do is beautiful. but, you ever feel like you are just assembling lego when so many parts are done on cnc, lasers, thicknesing is done by drum sander, binding channels are routed etc etc? i know its about consistency and speed, but doesn't it start feeling like mass production at some point not any different from any custom shop guitar? not arguing results, they are great :) personally i think there is something lost in the process when going for power tools. not saying it matters for the end result (or if people had these tools they could do the same without great deal of learning), but when i look at baroque instrument and know that its all hand guided dumb tools with detail on insane level like your work, it feels different. again, like the work you do and the advice you offer and maybe you have some kind of "stance" on this subject.
sounds to me like the CNC router has allowed you & Matt to work smarter not harder.
Paint Stick??? is that like a Pipe-streacher and a Bucket of steam? Lol... Couldn't resist, but I never heard of a Paint stick, sorry
It fits in the neck pocket so you can hang the guitar body to paint it.
Ya think he would have explained that.
@@poppy3215 Ok. Thanks. that makes sense
You just dıscovered accurate peasants in machine form. And realised ıt. And admitted it. Then you admitted that Matt is secondary to the machine. That's not rıght. You're on workshop tea making for the next two weeks at least. Or until Matt forgives you. ;)
18k for a cnc. I mean that's the base price for ONE of your guitars so.......chump change
Also dont forget, you get a tax writeoff as a business expense too that is good for a couple of years.