There are two owners in the Fountaine Pajot owners group who tried it. They both got rid of it in a year, and at least one of them sued. Slow speed and massive growth. Finsulate had promised to remove their garbage if it didn't do what they claimed, and then refused to stand behind it.
As far as I know, we have applied Finsulate to 2 FP catamarans. One couple was not happy because they did not realize they needed to clean, depending on where and how often you sail (which is the case for antifouling paint as well). They were unexperienced sailors so you can’t blame them. People tend to hear what they want. But we are not selling Finsulate as the “magic bullet”. It is an environmental friendly product with a proven lifetime of 10 years by now. But it is not 100% fouling free. However, it prevents the spread of toxic paint particles in pristine environments. People don’t realize, but every can of paint you apply to your yacht, ends up in the ocean. Pouring paint in the ocean is a crime, but if you first put it on your yacht and let it go in slowly, everything seems fine…. For the 2nd owner, we lost contact during the Covid pandemic. But for sure they did not remove within a year as I was there making some repairs after the first year of sailing. So I don’t know where you got this info?
@finsulate I was mistaken. Odyssey left it on for two years but was unhappy with its performance within months. The other boat I would have to look up, but I can tell you the reason you've only done 2 FP cats is because both owners warned off the other owners. I agree that a solution needs to be found to keep the pollution to a minimum, but a product with a significant reduction in speed, minimal fouling protection, and nearly impossible to remove the adhesive doesn't seem to be the answer.
I can't believe that there isn't a significant reduction in boat speed on a sailing boat. Even cruising sailboat users are focused on removing light growth.
We did some extensive testing with finsulate and without. There is a significant speed difference. Ranging from 0,3 knot to 1 knot of speed loss with finsulate. We sail a 33ft monohull sailboat. Speed comparison is with the same boat, same crew and same weight. And we kept the hull clean. When you do get growths finsulate gets off course even slower up to 1 to 2 knots speedloss.
@@SVTranquillity My comment in the main thread was 'spikes.. I have always wanted a hull speed of 3kn', given that I average 5kn, sounds like I was spot on...
it has to do with a change in flow pattern. We do see some increased friction, but during testing at MARIN institute here in The Netherlands, we saw that the flow stays attached much better/longer than with regular smooth bottom. So there is a balance between form drag and friction drag that is changing. For planing hulls, we do see an effect (as in planing mode there is only friction) but for displacement hulls we don't (with a few inexplicable exceptions of course).
From personal experience I know it ruins the performance of a sailing boat. My cruising sailboat lost about 1 kn at cruising speed of 5-6 kn. In low wind conditions 5-6 kn of wind the boat would come to a complete stop. The autopilot had also problems steering the boat because the friction on both sides differ. This is because a sailing boat does not goes straight but drifts a few degrees and the angle off attack on both sides differ. With the hairy nature of it this gives a difference of friction. I must say that as an anti-fouling it works and it sticks very well. It was a very hard job to remove it.
Hi Jan, a pity to hear you were - in the end - not satisfied. You used it for 2.5 years and the last contact that I see was in 2022 when you had the storm damage and we were discussing reapplying or repair. You never mentioned the speed issue, so to say “it ruins the performans of a sailing boat” as a comment is a bit blunt. Even though many sailboats are happy with the version of Finsulate that you had on your Contest, there have been a few cases of sailboats with a reduction in the top speed. So I am not denying what you say. That is why we have upgraded our portfolio in 2022 with a version that has softer hairs. That is our standard product for sailing yachts now. We do not have the 10 years proof that we have with the earlier version yet, but so far this version holds up well in all kinds of waters.
What did the turtle say when we poured toxic anti fouling paint over its body? >nothing< sic humor but as per our understanding of Finsulate....it therefor completely toxic free and safe for all marine life. So whilst it is not a perfect solution, it gives those boaters who care a viable green option over toxic coatings.
@@TheGreenBoater There are lots of fish that swim at cruising boat speeds. They are not all barracudas and tunas. Most of those slower fish manage to be barnacle free. So maybe it is what the urchins do with their spikes rather than the shape of those spikes that keeps them clean. While non toxic anti fouling is a worthy goal. More plastic on plastic is perhaps not the best path to that goal.
@@Pocketfarmer1 Interesting. Well I own a boat that when it does not move, say when it sits at dock for long periods over winter, the bottom growth accumulates much faster and with more volume than in the summer when my boat is, for the most part, moving. While I am not a scientist or marine biologist, it makes sense that a moving object (even a slow moving fish) is less likely to accumulate growth. So one of the slowest moving creatures, the Sea Urchin, makes for a compelling study case to mimic its surface. I have captured creatures like crabs whose shells and legs often have a barnacle or plant attached. So is their surface is more susceptible to marine growth? The older I get, the more damage I see in our oceans and I yearn for the day when we as boaters can find an alternative to the toxic ablative paints to protect our hulls in a safe and ocean friendly manner. On the topic of plastics, many of the non-ablative coatings do contain plastic and eventually erode into the ocean. So there is work to do. And there is a big opportunity. We applaud companies like Finsulate who are stepping up to find a working solution. Their founder and investors are committed to a marine safe coating for boaters.
We did some extensive testing with finsulate and without. There is a significant speed difference. Ranging from 0,3 knot to 1 knot of speed loss with finsulate. We sail a 33ft monohull sailboat. Speed comparison is with the same boat, same crew and same weight. And we kept the hull clean. When you do get growths finsulate gets off course even slower up to 1 to 2 knots speedloss.
Yes we did. Unfortunately the manufacturer is not very helpful when there are issues with the finsulate and you are somewhere in the carribean. No good warranty solutions. But you can see it all in our review of the product. In the review we did not had the speed data yet. So we did not mention it. It took us another year of sailing with regular antifouling to update our polair diagram. And this is when we found out how much slower finsulate actually is
@@TheGreenBoater unfortunately for this client it was impossible to give a solution that was satisfactory to him. Some people are impossible to satisfy. Something went wrong here, we don't deny. But we stopped responding to this former client as he is deliberately trying to ruin Finsulate's reputation. We have given a solution that is much better than any antifouling producer would give. Where we normally would admit that speed loss in specific occasions can occur, I am not too confident about his test. Probably he will respond again, I hope you accept that we do not answer again on his comment.
Yes I will comment on it. Just view our finsulate review on youtube. We only stated facts. And we shared the solution from the manufacturer as well. We do not intend to ruin someones business we just give a review on a product. In my opinion a good product will not ruin your business because of a negative review, the only thing that will is how you treat your customers.
This is the first time I've heard that the west coast (USA) can't clean our boat bottom in the water. Boy am I in trouble because I've been scrubbing my boat bottoms in the slip for over 40 years.
It is our understanding that boats with Ablative anti fouling paint are not allowed to be cleaned while in water. The toxins in the paint adhere to the bio growth and if knocked off enter the water environment spreading toxins to other marine creatures. Another reason is to prevent the spread of invasive species. If your boat has a non ablative coating then the laws governing your area may allow for in water cleaning.
@@TheGreenBoater It's going on right now. They removed the copper from bottom paint 25 years ago. The divers are busy cleaning boat bottoms in California. But what do I know, I'm just a retired Harbor Master for over 500 slips in San Diego Bay.
The California Sate Water Resources Control Board publishes their laws for biofouling management. It clearly states that propeller cleaning (in water) is allowed but "All other in- water hull cleaning is prohibited unless conducted using the best available technologies economically feasible, as determined by both SLC and the State Water Board." Now this is for all boats that have coatings containing prohibited biocides. I am certain that your divers are compliant with these regulations and are fully trained in the safe removal of bio mass from hulls. In state of Washington, where I kept my 50 foot yacht, all marinas and diving services which offer hull cleaning are fully aware of the laws governing cleaning and safe removal of toxic materials from boats while in water and in dry dock. For reference to boaters in California here is link to SLC laws for biofouling management: www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/beaches/cbi_projects/docs/faq.pdf We strongly encourage boaters to check regulations in their local waterways for rules governing the safe removal of bio mass from their hulls. Simply google 'laws governing in-water cleaning of vessels for [insert waterway]'
@@TheGreenBoater All diving services are licensed and certified to use BMP's. They (the port) alert all marinas if they want to halt bottom cleaning usually in areas of limited tidal flow. Some times they halt bottom cleaning for 2 months to gather samples for a base line. There was always a funny rumor around San Diego Bay that if you took your boat to Ensenada Mexico that you could get the paints that were banned in the states. The funny thing was the boat yards in Mexico get all of their supplies from West Marine in San Diego. So the bottom cleaning continues as usual with a beautiful piece of 1970's shag carpet.
@@TheGreenBoater So just because I've been retired for a few years I called up to my friends in Los Angeles, San Pedro marinas. Your scare tactics to sell your product don't work well at this time. But who knows what the future may hold for boat owners. Everyone knows we have excess cash to own a second home on the water. However the tide will change and I think your on the right track. Perhaps induce a voltage barrier from inside the vessel out. Best of luck to you!!
It does defy our 'visual logic' but there is scientific evidence (see manufacturer web site) to support the formation of air bubbles from the fibers which provide lift and less drag. I suppose if the boat is inactive for long periods then the surface has 'sludge' that attaches which will reduce that effect. It will be interesting to hear from more boat owners who have applied this coating. ~tgb
This product has been proven to be rubbish! Barnacle will nest in the seams and the foil starts to peel off. Some saltwater mussels ignore the marketing talk and feel just rine on it. Unfortunately customers also had to realize that the company starts to ghost them when problems appear Just search RUclips for examples of all above.
@@TheGreenBoater No it was like a car wrap, alternative to paint. The idea of a wrap is good but it’s so easy to damage with a heavy displacement boat. 😀👍🇪🇸
CopperCoat. Long life, hard wearing epoxy based protection. Easy clean.
There are two owners in the Fountaine Pajot owners group who tried it. They both got rid of it in a year, and at least one of them sued. Slow speed and massive growth. Finsulate had promised to remove their garbage if it didn't do what they claimed, and then refused to stand behind it.
We plan to reach out to Finsulate and get some clarity around performance and customer acceptance. Thank you!
As far as I know, we have applied Finsulate to 2 FP catamarans. One couple was not happy because they did not realize they needed to clean, depending on where and how often you sail (which is the case for antifouling paint as well). They were unexperienced sailors so you can’t blame them.
People tend to hear what they want. But we are not selling Finsulate as the “magic bullet”. It is an environmental friendly product with a proven lifetime of 10 years by now. But it is not 100% fouling free. However, it prevents the spread of toxic paint particles in pristine environments. People don’t realize, but every can of paint you apply to your yacht, ends up in the ocean. Pouring paint in the ocean is a crime, but if you first put it on your yacht and let it go in slowly, everything seems fine….
For the 2nd owner, we lost contact during the Covid pandemic. But for sure they did not remove within a year as I was there making some repairs after the first year of sailing. So I don’t know where you got this info?
@finsulate I was mistaken. Odyssey left it on for two years but was unhappy with its performance within months. The other boat I would have to look up, but I can tell you the reason you've only done 2 FP cats is because both owners warned off the other owners.
I agree that a solution needs to be found to keep the pollution to a minimum, but a product with a significant reduction in speed, minimal fouling protection, and nearly impossible to remove the adhesive doesn't seem to be the answer.
I glued shag carpet to the bottom and a lava light for the cabin.
it does have the vibe! love the passion.
I can't believe that there isn't a significant reduction in boat speed on a sailing boat. Even cruising sailboat users are focused on removing light growth.
We did some extensive testing with finsulate and without. There is a significant speed difference. Ranging from 0,3 knot to 1 knot of speed loss with finsulate. We sail a 33ft monohull sailboat. Speed comparison is with the same boat, same crew and same weight. And we kept the hull clean. When you do get growths finsulate gets off course even slower up to 1 to 2 knots speedloss.
We so appreciate the feedback! Have you contacted Finsulate directly?
@@SVTranquillity My comment in the main thread was 'spikes.. I have always wanted a hull speed of 3kn', given that I average 5kn, sounds like I was spot on...
it has to do with a change in flow pattern. We do see some increased friction, but during testing at MARIN institute here in The Netherlands, we saw that the flow stays attached much better/longer than with regular smooth bottom. So there is a balance between form drag and friction drag that is changing. For planing hulls, we do see an effect (as in planing mode there is only friction) but for displacement hulls we don't (with a few inexplicable exceptions of course).
Finsulate represents a new breed of companies, whose ecofriendly products which are taking on traditional antifouling coating solutions.
From personal experience I know it ruins the performance of a sailing boat. My cruising sailboat lost about 1 kn at cruising speed of 5-6 kn. In low wind conditions 5-6 kn of wind the boat would come to a complete stop. The autopilot had also problems steering the boat because the friction on both sides differ. This is because a sailing boat does not goes straight but drifts a few degrees and the angle off attack on both sides differ. With the hairy nature of it this gives a difference of friction. I must say that as an anti-fouling it works and it sticks very well. It was a very hard job to remove it.
Thank you for this credible feedback. As mentioned we are contacting manufacturer for response.
Hi Jan, a pity to hear you were - in the end - not satisfied. You used it for 2.5 years and the last contact that I see was in 2022 when you had the storm damage and we were discussing reapplying or repair. You never mentioned the speed issue, so to say “it ruins the performans of a sailing boat” as a comment is a bit blunt.
Even though many sailboats are happy with the version of Finsulate that you had on your Contest, there have been a few cases of sailboats with a reduction in the top speed. So I am not denying what you say. That is why we have upgraded our portfolio in 2022 with a version that has softer hairs. That is our standard product for sailing yachts now. We do not have the 10 years proof that we have with the earlier version yet, but so far this version holds up well in all kinds of waters.
Are sea urchins known for their speed through the water?
Ya they do like 0.6 lightspeed
@@wahid-lg1kk what did the snail say when it got on the turtles back?
Weeeeeeeeee!
What did the turtle say when we poured toxic anti fouling paint over its body? >nothing< sic humor but as per our understanding of Finsulate....it therefor completely toxic free and safe for all marine life. So whilst it is not a perfect solution, it gives those boaters who care a viable green option over toxic coatings.
@@TheGreenBoater There are lots of fish that swim at cruising boat speeds. They are not all barracudas and tunas. Most of those slower fish manage to be barnacle free. So maybe it is what the urchins do with their spikes rather than the shape of those spikes that keeps them clean.
While non toxic anti fouling is a worthy goal. More plastic on plastic is perhaps not the best path to that goal.
@@Pocketfarmer1 Interesting. Well I own a boat that when it does not move, say when it sits at dock for long periods over winter, the bottom growth accumulates much faster and with more volume than in the summer when my boat is, for the most part, moving.
While I am not a scientist or marine biologist, it makes sense that a moving object (even a slow moving fish) is less likely to accumulate growth. So one of the slowest moving creatures, the Sea Urchin, makes for a compelling study case to mimic its surface. I have captured creatures like crabs whose shells and legs often have a barnacle or plant attached. So is their surface is more susceptible to marine growth?
The older I get, the more damage I see in our oceans and I yearn for the day when we as boaters can find an alternative to the toxic ablative paints to protect our hulls in a safe and ocean friendly manner.
On the topic of plastics, many of the non-ablative coatings do contain plastic and eventually erode into the ocean. So there is work to do. And there is a big opportunity.
We applaud companies like Finsulate who are stepping up to find a working solution. Their founder and investors are committed to a marine safe coating for boaters.
We did some extensive testing with finsulate and without. There is a significant speed difference. Ranging from 0,3 knot to 1 knot of speed loss with finsulate. We sail a 33ft monohull sailboat. Speed comparison is with the same boat, same crew and same weight. And we kept the hull clean. When you do get growths finsulate gets off course even slower up to 1 to 2 knots speedloss.
Thank you for the feedback! Was this reported to the manufacturer?
Yes we did. Unfortunately the manufacturer is not very helpful when there are issues with the finsulate and you are somewhere in the carribean. No good warranty solutions. But you can see it all in our review of the product. In the review we did not had the speed data yet. So we did not mention it. It took us another year of sailing with regular antifouling to update our polair diagram. And this is when we found out how much slower finsulate actually is
@@TheGreenBoater unfortunately for this client it was impossible to give a solution that was satisfactory to him. Some people are impossible to satisfy. Something went wrong here, we don't deny. But we stopped responding to this former client as he is deliberately trying to ruin Finsulate's reputation. We have given a solution that is much better than any antifouling producer would give. Where we normally would admit that speed loss in specific occasions can occur, I am not too confident about his test. Probably he will respond again, I hope you accept that we do not answer again on his comment.
Yes I will comment on it. Just view our finsulate review on youtube. We only stated facts. And we shared the solution from the manufacturer as well. We do not intend to ruin someones business we just give a review on a product. In my opinion a good product will not ruin your business because of a negative review, the only thing that will is how you treat your customers.
One of the cruisers added Ivermectin to his anti foul and it reduced growth significantly.
Tony. Could you provide more info about this? What is Ivermectin? thx ~TGB
So he recreated velcro?
The opposite. Nothing sticks.
在帆船比赛中都会专门把船底抛光后再进行比赛，更何况把船底变得像刷子一样。
This is the first time I've heard that the west coast (USA) can't clean our boat bottom in the water. Boy am I in trouble because I've been scrubbing my boat bottoms in the slip for over 40 years.
It is our understanding that boats with Ablative anti fouling paint are not allowed to be cleaned while in water. The toxins in the paint adhere to the bio growth and if knocked off enter the water environment spreading toxins to other marine creatures. Another reason is to prevent the spread of invasive species. If your boat has a non ablative coating then the laws governing your area may allow for in water cleaning.
@@TheGreenBoater It's going on right now. They removed the copper from bottom paint 25 years ago. The divers are busy cleaning boat bottoms in California. But what do I know, I'm just a retired Harbor Master for over 500 slips in San Diego Bay.
The California Sate Water Resources Control Board publishes their laws for biofouling management. It clearly states that propeller cleaning (in water) is allowed but "All other in- water hull cleaning is prohibited unless conducted using the best available technologies economically feasible, as determined by both SLC and the State Water Board." Now this is for all boats that have coatings containing prohibited biocides. I am certain that your divers are compliant with these regulations and are fully trained in the safe removal of bio mass from hulls. In state of Washington, where I kept my 50 foot yacht, all marinas and diving services which offer hull cleaning are fully aware of the laws governing cleaning and safe removal of toxic materials from boats while in water and in dry dock. For reference to boaters in California here is link to SLC laws for biofouling management:
www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/beaches/cbi_projects/docs/faq.pdf
We strongly encourage boaters to check regulations in their local waterways for rules governing the safe removal of bio mass from their hulls. Simply google 'laws governing in-water cleaning of vessels for [insert waterway]'
@@TheGreenBoater All diving services are licensed and certified to use BMP's. They (the port) alert all marinas if they want to halt bottom cleaning usually in areas of limited tidal flow. Some times they halt bottom cleaning for 2 months to gather samples for a base line. There was always a funny rumor around San Diego Bay that if you took your boat to Ensenada Mexico that you could get the paints that were banned in the states. The funny thing was the boat yards in Mexico get all of their supplies from West Marine in San Diego. So the bottom cleaning continues as usual with a beautiful piece of 1970's shag carpet.
@@TheGreenBoater So just because I've been retired for a few years I called up to my friends in Los Angeles, San Pedro marinas. Your scare tactics to sell your product don't work well at this time. But who knows what the future may hold for boat owners. Everyone knows we have excess cash to own a second home on the water. However the tide will change and I think your on the right track. Perhaps induce a voltage barrier from inside the vessel out. Best of luck to you!!
Spikes, right. I always wanted a hull speed of 3kn
Astro-turf on the boat hulls ...
Oh my goodness, looks like gluing anchors to the bottom of your boat .. lol
It does defy our 'visual logic' but there is scientific evidence (see manufacturer web site) to support the formation of air bubbles from the fibers which provide lift and less drag. I suppose if the boat is inactive for long periods then the surface has 'sludge' that attaches which will reduce that effect. It will be interesting to hear from more boat owners who have applied this coating. ~tgb
If this can block growth on z-drives, this product will make them rich!!!
yes!
This product has been proven to be rubbish!
Barnacle will nest in the seams and the foil starts to peel off.
Some saltwater mussels ignore the marketing talk and feel just rine on it.
Unfortunately customers also had to realize that the company starts to ghost them when problems appear
Just search RUclips for examples of all above.
I tried a wrap and my first winter the marina it got destroyed. 🤔🇪🇸
Are you talking about a winter boat cover?
@@TheGreenBoater No it was like a car wrap, alternative to paint. The idea of a wrap is good but it’s so easy to damage with a heavy displacement boat. 😀👍🇪🇸
Ah..was it applied below waterline to act as antifouling? If so.was it Finsulate?
@@TheGreenBoater No it wasn’t Finsulate. 👍
I cannot believe that it has zero effect on boat performance that sounds like BS where's the proof.
rubish.
Simply rubbish trying to make a dollar out of a cent