Why Illegal Immigrants Can Attend Public School | Plyler v. Doe
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2018
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In episode 26 of Supreme Court Briefs, illegal immigrants get kicked out of public schools in Tyler, Texas and a local district starts charging them to attend school there because they're illegal.
Produced by Matt Beat. Music by Jermaine Hysten. All images found in public domain or used under fair use guidelines.
Photos credits:
Pax Ahimsa Gethen
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Noah Scialom
www.flickr.com/photos/ftmeade...
Sound effect credits:
Punch sound effect by Mike Koenig
Check out cool primary sources here:
www.oyez.org/cases/1981/80-1538
Other sources used:
www.americanimmigrationcounci...
www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-...
www.law.cornell.edu/supremeco...
www.migrationpolicy.org/artic...
www.apmreports.org/story/2017...
www.uscourts.gov/educational-r...
Tyler, Texas
1975
Under the leadership of James Plyler, the Tyler Independent School District begins charging $1,000 a year for unauthorized immigrant students to attend school there. It had justified this decision by a recent Texas law that said it wouldn’t use taxpayer money to educate students who were not “legally admitted” into the United States. Not only that, the law said school districts could deny students enrollment if their parents couldn’t prove they were legal citizens.
And that’s exactly what the Tyler Independent School District started doing. In fact, in 1977 it began kicking kids out of school if they didn’t have United States birth certificates.
In response, four families affected by this new policy sued the school district. The district court, which, in order to protect their privacy identified them using pseudonyms, decided that the kids should be allowed to go to school and found both the state law and the school district’s policy unconstitutional. They argued the law and policy went against the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause. The school district appealed, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit agreed with the lower court.
The district appealed to the Supreme Court, and the Court agreed to hear the case, combining it with a similar case, weirdly called Texas v. Certain Named and Unnamed Alien Child. By golly that could be a great band name, come to think of it.
Anyway, the Court heard oral arguments on December 1, 1981. The Court had a difficult time with this one, and wouldn’t announce its decision until June 15, 1982. In a 5-4 decision, they sided with the families, and struck down the Texas law that withheld funds from educating students who were illegal aliens. The Court argued that illegal aliens and their children, even though they weren’t citizens were still people, who deserved the same rights as protected under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. Because they viewed education as a right, and because they weren’t hurting the state that much by going to school, the Court said these students should be able to go.
Leading the dissent was Justice Burger, who argued it wasn’t the judicial system’s place to solve this issue, but that it ought to be solved through the legislative process. This might surprise some, but the dissent actually said these kids should be able to go to school. They just argued the Constitution didn’t allow them to decide on this.
With all the debate today about DACA, or the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the immigration policy that lets the children of illegal aliens not get kicked out of the country among other things, Plyler v. Doe is an extremely relevant case. Today, school administrators in K-12 public schools can’t even ask about a child’s immigration status. Notice how I said K-12. Post secondary schools can still have restrictions based on citizenship status.
Years later, James Plyler, the superintendent who fought these families who wanted their undocumented kids to attend school, who in fact this case was named after, changed his mind. On the 25th anniversary of the decision, in 2007, Plyler said that Texas law that withheld funds from educating students who were illegal aliens “would have been one of the worst things to happen in education - they’d cost more not being educated. Right after we let those youngsters in, I was pleased.”
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When are the Certain Named & Unnamed Alien Child going to be releasing their debut album? (I'm looking at you Mr. Beat to make this happen)
The album drops June 2018.
I'm gonna pre-order
isn't weird how the dissenting justices when they lose say something like "the court shouldn't be deciding this" lol
It's an easy cop out
I mean I could see how in this case it is a tad ambiguous.
I agree with court it shouldn't be decided by the court it should be decided by the people do they want children who are here illegally in schools.
Well, equal protections and equal privileges are not the same, nor is education a natural right.
No it isn’t weird, especially on the cases that are going to be showcased on youtube because by nature they will be far reaching decisions.
"Certain Named & Unnamed Alien Child" is an underground band. Because, you know, "Doe" is too mainstream.
Do you agree with the Supreme Court's decision? How do you feel about DACA?
Mr. Beat I along with more than 80% of the country believe that DACA recipients should receive legal status and a path to citizenshi. But as far as the supreme Court Decision is concerned, I'm surprised at how far the 14th amendment goes, and I guess that constitutionalists on the right may disagree in that extrapolation...
I was honestly surprised at the Court's interpretation with this one, too.
i believe illegals are illegals and many have been waiting years that are doing it the right way. through documentation
Did you agree with Mr Pauls speech? it had alot of grit. We need people like him. He even swagged his hair like a historic senator
Dennis Walker Who was your teacher, the orange skinned Tweeter in Cheif of the United States?
I think some people forget that undocumented people still pay taxes, so they are paying for those schools. It's not like immigrants are coming and free riding on services like schools.
True that. It's not just property and income taxes. Sales taxes pay for schools, too.
If you're an illegal immigrant, you're probably not going to have a social security number (or tax identification number), so you're probably not going to be paying income taxes... Since I don't pay property taxes, I imagine local governments might not tie it to a social security number so it might be easier to go unnoticed.
KnowingBetter not true illegal immigrants can get a tax ID.
Learn something new every day, the ITIN was created specifically for them and was started in the late 90s.
City Beautiful True but in social security, welfare, education and other government benefits, they are a net cost to taxpayers.
I love all these Supreme Court vids! Speaking of education, can you do a video explaining Fisher v Texas pts 1 & 2 and all the related affirmative action cases?
Thank you for this video! I'm studying for my bilingual education exam, and one of the competencies requires me to know the history of bilingual education. Your video was very helpful
MY LEG its paralyzed
Do you think it’s fair that undocumented children learn a 2nd language from k-12 but American children only get a second language in high school?
Was Tyler SD the only school district in Texas to actually start enforcing this law? The case makes it seem that way since there was a two year gap between the law passing and enforcement... That would be a little weird.
Also, I obviously agree with the court on this one
Apparently in Houston a district also enforced it, but yeah, that seemed to be it. What is strange is that the law was passed with little fanfare. I suppose most Texans did not understand the implications of the law or even know about it.
I live in Tyler, and let me tell you, it makes sense why Tyler was one of the only school districts to enforce this law. Smith County (where Tyler is) is deep red, and one of the two high schools here was called "Robert E. Lee High School" only until a few years ago. Many people here are pretty far right; my parents and many kids at my school believe far right nonsense such as the 2020 election being stolen, and many of the kids at my school are unvaccinated against COVID. Tyler is the source of a lot of stupidity, though I find it very interesting when something of such national significance involves my home town, even if it's for such a fucked up law. It caught me pretty off-guard to hear Tyler, TX
Also if you see this sorry for replying to your 4 year old comment lol. Love your channel by the way.
You telling me the “entire” court agreed non-citizens are entitled to public education?
More or less. Pretty crazy, isn't it?
It becomes easier to understand where they are coming from when you think of it as a human right as they did. Anyone legal or illegal has a right to access the emergency room in the US, and this becomes a corollary of sorts.
I think it’s because their “illegality” has nothing to do with them going to school.
It is an insult to those that pay for the schools. Bleeding hearts that want to protect the world, while a worthy goal, should check their bank balances first!
No it’s not public education for the masses is an absolute minimum for any society. It will help promote merit, instead of who you were born by.
I love your briefs. Would you be able to go back and include the year in the title of each video in your Supreme Court Briefs series? Thank you.
That's a solid idea. I think I can do that. Maybe it will help people find the videos more? Thanks for the kind words. :D
This is great. You should make more of these
Very relevant case, thank you for posting
Heck yeah. Wasn't it you that suggested it?
Hey Mr. Beat I love your videos and I'm studying to become a history teacher myself. Anyway you could make a Supreme Court brief on Burwell v. Hobby Lobby?
Oh that's awesome! Thanks for the kind words and the suggestion.
Honestly didn’t really agree with the decision until I heard boul say ‘it would cost more to not let them go to school’ made me see it from a different angle
We don’t even know the context of the quote or what cost figures he’s referring to. I’d imagine he’s looking at correlations between non-high school grads collecting welfare checks versus high school grads that go to college and make a decent living, but even that isn’t completely accurate. If they came here illegally, it’s much easier for them to be paid under the table (as in, without needing to pay taxes) and the money they earn gets sent back down south across the border to where their other family members live; causing money to leave the US economy.
It would cost less to deport them. Not like they all pay taxes.
so money was more important for you to see their value than the fact that these are actual people? damn
@@UndertakerU2ber Adult undocumented immigrants aren't able to collect welfare. They are mostly disqualified from government benefits, even if they pay all of their taxes, which a surprising amount of them do.
@@UndertakerU2berthe likelihood of committing most types of crime (exceptions are tax fraud and embezzlement) goes down with every year of education. Some *employers* avoid payroll tax by paying under the table. Most undocumented immigrants here long term are using a fake id and ssn, so they are paying taxes. Even if they aren’t paying income tax and their employer is avoiding payroll taxes, they pay property tax (either directly or via rent) and sales taxes.
I think that immigrants should not be kicked out of schools and that that the court was right in this decision!Great video Mr Beat!
Thanks Mummy :D
They 100% should have. Illegals dodge taxes or otherwise pay taxes at a lower rate. They violate the soveirngty of the nation and thus should not be eligible to use benefits, any more than a foreign national should.
Very good video, and again very informative. It’s even interesting to a law student from Denmark :D
+Khasidon Thanks! Good to hear it is appealing to "non-Americans." :)
Great summary....thanks!
Can you tell why is the liberty bell cracked
Notification squad! But seriously, as a Non Resident legal Alien, I'm thankful for this channel and it's amazing content. This is useful ( some would say necessary) information.
Aww, thanks so much. I'm thankful for you!
"Non Resident legal Alien” What does this mean?
Khasidon I came to the US to pursue a Masters program in engineering. I'm not a permanent resident, just a temporary alien. if I choose to work here and stay, after 10-15 years I might get a green card and become an 'immigrant'/'permanent resident' Otherwise I'm a non resident alien.I added the word 'legal' for clarification.
@@TheVistastube I think you're still resident as long as you reside in the US even if you're not a permanent resident so I think "non-permanent resident" would be more accurate.
@@seneca983 "nonresident alien student," if you want to get technical.
Though I think the real issue is, there is a stigma attached to the word "alien," and people only like to see it applied to undocumented immigrants.
Could you do a video on Stanley v Georgia?
Is there anyway congress can over rule a supreme court decision or do they need to ammend the consistution?
2:36 typo for the “deferred”
Are there any 1st Amendment Supreme Court cases regarding music lyrics? If so, do one of them, please!
You see the George Carlin case yet?
@@iammrbeat Yes I have. But I was referring to something in the 1980s when the PMRC existed.
@@joshuacoleman8000what is pmrc
What do you think of doing Hernandez v Texas next?
Why have I never heard about this? I live in Tyler, Texas!
cuz you're ignorant
@@villa7230 ignorant or because institutions don't like acknowledging the things they did wrong?
@@villa7230 Ignorant just means not knowing so you're not explaining anything. You might have just as well answered "because you've never heard of it".
*sees thumbnail*
Hey, I know that school logo on graduation toga. It's from Claret School in Manila. Cheers from PHL, Mr. Beat.
No kidding! That's awesome. I just found the image on Pixabay. :)
Hi Mr. Beat! Is Bush v. Gore in the pipeline?
It indeed is in the pipeline, but it will still be several months before I get to it. Sorry :(
i would rather people arrive through the expected process, but however, children should not be neglected because of their parents (arguably) wrong decisions
That Equal Protection clause gets everywhere. Education is a right that we should all have.
Janos Jalics These kids can get an education, in Mexico where they belong not here!
Adam Smith but what if they've lived in the US their whole life but were born a different country? You just going to send someone back to a place they probably dont even know and expect them to thrive?
Edgar Espino law is law
Your parents gave you alcohol when you were a kid? NO. Why ? because it is bad for health. Similarly, when their parents were breaking the laws they knew it will have consequences... they gave their kids alcohol/poison in another form... now they are like praying to GOD to save kids' liver and don't let him die... It is a comparison... I'm a legal immigrant from INDIA who invested $50000 for my education here and went thru a hell of paperwork and problems to come here and I'm from a middle-class family. NOW, after graduation companies don't hire just because I'm not a citizen...! and here are lawbreakers who are getting citizenship like an award for their adventures. Everybody got problems but it doesn't mean you break the laws and later ask for forgiveness and benefits. It is an injustice for legal immigrants like me who run your Google, Microsoft, PepsiCo, MasterCard, etc. I'm writing this just because it will change the minds of citizens hopefully as they will come to know who is more useful legal or illegal.
@@SurajJadhav93 well said and yet another valid point in the fact that you said you worked your butt off to get here and do it by the books. You personally have first-hand experience and knowledge of why illegal immigration is wrong.
President During this time: Ronald Reagan
Chief Justice: Warren E. Burger
Argued December 1, 1981
Decided June 15, 1982
Case Duration: 196 Days
Decision: 5-4 in favor of Doe (Marshall, Brennan Jr., Blackmun, Powell, Stevens. Burger, O’Connor, Rehnquist, White for Plyler.)
Would love to see a video on how much of the constitution applies to Dreamers. If DACA recipients are covered by the constitution, shouldn't the 2nd ammendment apply to them too? Wouldn't any law defying that be unconstitutional?
pretty much yeah. basically the constitution applies to every single person in the us (that is subject to the jurisdiction of the us) and everyone is ensured rights unless it's a right reserved exclusively for citizens.
@Isaac Rios But wouldn't it be unconstitutional for the federal government to only reserve that right for citizens? Like if the government said that only citizens have free speech, that would be considered an infringement on the 1st amendment. So why is not an infringement on the 2nd?
Thanks
Yes ! I love it!
Quite the unexpected ruling
It should be illegal to not school a child what ever child it may be
I think it shouldn't be a judicial decision.
I want a burger now
+Anthony Marquez A Burger or a burger?
A Burger
2:13 🍔 lol
Being British I don't know enough about DACA
I love this. I definitely think it is important to let the kids get the education they need but I do think it shouldn't be left to the courts. Legislation branch needs to do it job and come up with a pathway to citizenship. Stop leaving it to courts that is not with elected representatives.
Them real estate taxes doe
Children were not at fault for parents illegal action and thus they should still be allowed to attend the school. The parents however have no right to claim equal protection because that right applies to citizens only. They were not citizens and so this is judicial activism by the courts.
Equal protection affects everyone not just citizens. What about legal immigrants? They don’t get equal protection?
@@boygenius538_8 Violations of our laws and statutes should constitute a fair punishment, if you're legally admitted to the nation then there shouldn't be any action.
clearly you haven't read the 14th amendment. the equal protection clause applies to all PERSONS. the privileges and immunities clause applies to CITIZENS. here's the 14th amendment for you, you know, to save you the hassle of doing your own research.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
and that's just section 1 of the 14th amendment
2:38 Misspelled "deferred"
haha great video thanks
If they have a salaried job or buy anything they still get taxed weither citizen or not.
it cost taxpayers $13,000 per year per illegal plus an extra 30 % cost if we need to teach them English , Thats a cost of $169,00 per illegal do you really believe they pay over $169,00 in sales or income tax that education cost is per child. Once their kids have kids that debt they have increases, they will always be at a negative ,therefore never a taxpayer for generations after generations . then there their share of cost for using public roads cost of law enforcement and various cost it takes to run a country. if you cross the border with no money you take out from the Irs not put in. Even if they start paying so calle taxes that money go to the negative of what they took out. It basic math like a bank account if you have a negative balance you have no money until you pay back the negative before you can have positive balance. So how the hell can you be taxpayer if you come here broke and take out from the tax revenue before you put in.
@@poet7158 furthermore your entire argument is stupid, since you're trying to say someone isn't a taxpayer because the taxes they pay in were "borrowed" upon entry.
I'm still a professional chef, even if I have to be taught before cooking to bring in revenue. I'm still a billionaire, even if I go into debt before getting my fortunes. I'm still whatever the hell I am, even if my beginnings weren't as fortunate.
Taxpayers are taxpayers, regardless of how they got into that situation. If you work in any job thats federally attached, you're paying taxes. Its physically impossible for someone to try and not pay taxes when working at Walmart/McDonalds/Target because those businesses are legally tied to the federal government through application processing services. Your taxes are taken without your choice in most jobs, you can't just tick a small box saying you wanna commit tax fraud.
@@hansdiedeutsch7881 evidently you don't know math or how to balance an account if you with drawl from taxes from day one you are at a negative balance it is mathematically impossible .for example I take 100 from tax payers i pay 10 to the Irs , I'm still at a neg balance of 90. I can not pay into taxes UNTIL THAT-90 reach a balance of 0 only after I am at a positive balance then I am tax payer try having $10.00 in your bank account and tempt to take out $100.00 you can't .you are saying they are tax payers because it taken out by iris that's not possible the math doesn't work out with that thinking
This decision doesn’t even make sense.
I don't have the money to donate on patreon but If I make a few suggestions and you can decide wether or not you think they are worth it on your on.
Here they are
Epperson v Arkansas
Van Orden V. Perry
McCreary County, Kentucky v. ACLU of Kentucky
Town of Greece v. Galloway
Burwell v Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.
Gratz. v. Bollinger
Grutter v. Bollinger
Fisher V. University Of Texas
Bush V. Gore
Griswold v. Connecticut
Planned Parenthood v. Casey
Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt
Washington v. Glucksberg
District Of Columbia v. Heller
McDonald v. City Of Chicago
West Coast Hotel co. v. Parrish
Heart of Atlanta motel v. United States
Katzenbach v. McClung
Burlington Industries v. Ellerth
Standard Oil Co. v United States
Kelo v. City of New London
Monroe v. Pape
Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawer
United States v. Nixon
Boumediene v. Bush
Al Odah v. U.S.
Miller v. California
New York Times Co. v. Sullivam
Kyllo v. United States
Riley v. California.
these are all cases from that book I mentioned
Any of these strike your fancy?
And of course, it was a decision written by Justice Brennan. Best Justice ever!
I disagree with the court decision but I believe DACA dreamers should be given amnesty.
Adam Smith why might I ask? All reports indicate they provide a net positive for the U.S. economy and they have lived their entire lives in the US, so you cant even argue from a cultural perspective.
If your real problem is incentivizing illegal immigration, build a wall. It is fairly simple but for now, the problem needs a real solution.
Flame Fusion Why can’t they just be honest and immigrate legally instead of slipping through the cracks? They’re a slap in the face to the men and women who actually immigrated here legally and honestly.
Your parents gave you alcohol when you were a kid? NO. Why ? because it is bad for health. Similarly, when their parents were breaking the laws they knew it will have consequences... they gave their kids alcohol/poison in another form... now they are like praying to GOD to save kids' liver and don't let him die... It is a comparison... I'm a legal immigrant from INDIA who invested $50000 for my education here and went thru a hell of paperwork and problems to come here and I'm from a middle-class family. NOW, after graduation companies don't hire just because I'm not a citizen...! and here are lawbreakers who are getting citizenship like an award for their adventures. Everybody got problems but it doesn't mean you break the laws and later ask for forgiveness and benefits. It is an injustice for legal immigrants like me who run your Google, Microsoft, PepsiCo, MasterCard, etc. I'm writing this just because it will change the minds of citizens hopefully as they will come to know who is more useful legal or illegal.
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv Go back to Europe.
Flame Fusion DACA for a wall is a trade I would make. That said, legal status (but NOT citizenship) is fine as well.
I actually work in tyler!
I don't agree with the SC . This ruling only encourages illegal emigration.
Does this also apply to medical care? ( Non emergency)
One of the worst Supreme Court decisions
cry about it then
a roblox player vs john doe
Hmmmmmm.... burger!
I AM GLAD MR BEAT ASK ABOUT THIS .
ALTHOUGH I FEEL IMMIGRANTS SHOULD HAVE A SAFE MEANS OF IMPROVING THEMSELVES & RETURNING TO COUNTRIES OF THEIR NATIONALITY , IF THEIR OWN COUNTIES ARE NOT SAFE ENOUGH....
IS THIS NOT ONE OF THE BEST WAYS OF PEOPLES BEING ABLE TO IMPROVE THEMSELVES .
THEY WOULOD NOT ONLY HAVE THE EXTRA LANGUAGE ON OUR CITIZENS , BUT AN EDUCATION AS WELL.....
I OFTEN WISH OUR SERVICEMEN BIDEN BROUGHT HOME COULD BE PLACED AT THE BORDER TO HELP THESE IMMIGRANTS BUILD APARTMENTS ON THE MEXICAN SIDE OF THE BORDER THAT THEY COULD LIVE IN FREE WHEN THEY ARE CONSTRUCTED . PWW P.S. IF OUR SERVICEMEN SPENT SHIFTS OF 4 YEARS DOWN THERE BUILDING PLACES INSTEAD OF DESTROYING & KILLING & LOSING THEIR OWN LIVES , SHOULD NOT EACH SHIFT OF SERVICEMEN GET TO LEAVE AFTER 4 YEARS & GO SOMEPLACE THEY MIGHT LIKE ??
What’s next? May as well give the illegal immigrants the right to own guns under the second amendment while politicians take that right away from Americans
oh god...they DO have that right...who was going to tell you?
@@isaacrios8392 good luck trying to get an illegal immigrant trying to pass a gun background check.
I would rather both Americans and undocumented immigrants be allowed to own guns...
I never thought I would be in the position of being more pro-gun rights than a conservative, but I guess this is where we are today.
@@comradebroosk9396 you’re not more pro-gun than a conservative since you more than likely support restrictions on certain Americans owning guns.
I read this opinion years ago. It really felt like the court was making tenuous logical twists to get to their conclusions.
Yep another horrible decision just like Roe vs Wade. Let's hope this SCOTUS reverses this one too
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv I agree. The mental gymnastics to pass laws from the bench. Here's hoping many other garbage decisions being overturned
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv should we overturn Brown v Board of Education...?
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv should we still overturn Brown v Board of Education...?
Well, I concur with the majority holding the status “illegal alien” is not a suspect class and I agree that “innocent children” regardless of citizenship should not be delibritely punished.... I also agree this was the job of the legislature and not the court... however, I must also acknowledge it is a 10th am. violation that the state does have a substantial interest on protecting... while many cute that “illegal aliens also pay taxes” a vast majority of school funding is directly from property taxes... Texas does not have an income tax, so any taxes paid would be sales and federal. Federal subsidy of k-12 isn’t that much, and we have over crowding, under funding and we also have teacher pay protests.... a solution is needed.
Everyone contributes to property taxes either directly, or indirectly through rent. Your comment seems to imply you think only people who own land should have access to public schools. 😬
Donald Trump: 😫😫😫
Might be a spicy take but I honestly think DACA recipients should be given carte blanche citizenship. They are not at fault for their parents *misdemeanor*, and I used that word because that’s exactly what crossing the border illegally is, and they are just as much a citizen of the US as any natural born or naturalized citizen. Hell some of these DACA recipients have had children of their own now who themselves are citizens. Seems like a no brainer to me
We should try this case again. Equal protections should not apply to non ciitzens
Well that doesn't how the "law" works...
@@adamdaniel8909 could be. Just have to overturn some supreme court cases. Nothing in the constitution about internationals
@@jpmeyer09 and follow international law...of course...
@@jpmeyer09 eehhh...not really no...
@@jpmeyer09 the obvious constitutional provisions like 'due process' and equal treatment under the law, the U.S.... constitution applies to all persons... which includes both documented and undocumented immigrants or citizens and not just U.S. citizens... meaning that anyone from any country...even if they came here legally...they are protected and constitution applies to them even the illegal ones too...
if you're an illegal immigrant, don't you get deported?
Would someone who escaped from prison be allowed to attend public school?
Illegal immigrants still pay taxes, from property taxes, to sales tax, they still pay taxes.
@Johan Liebert they are still paying taxes, and how are they freeloaders?
@Johan Liebert source?
@Johan Liebert show me a link, and education is still a human right
@Johan Liebert can you link where you found this information?
You sound very stuffy.
It seems absurd that someone's personal history, or association with their parents' history, should define whether or not they're treated with humanity. I can't help but think that this has a real risk of being overturned in the next few years. Next up we'll be denying immigrants' entry into the emergency room.
I don't know where the current conservative leaning justices stand on Plyler, but I could definitely see it being overturned one day. It does come down to the fact that many believe education is a natural right, regardless of citizenship.
I think that the key point here is that they are illegal immigrants , people who broke the law of this country. Giving them citizenship is like allowing a bank robber to keep his stolen funds. If american illegally crosses into mexico , he will get 2 to 10 years imprisonment. Why should america do any different and instead even give them taxpayer funded amenities , in my opinion , schools should not throw them out as they would cause more trouble on the streets than in school , but the idea of a fee is completely logical and fair.
The argument as presented seems to be an appeal to the rule of law. Am I right about that? More specifically though, I think we should ask if we submit to this rule in particular. Is it always right to follow laws as they're laid out? Should we always follow it to the letter? I'm not saying it's exactly equivalent, but for context let's remember that police in the US are in significant part derived from slave patrols. It bears scrutiny whenever we start to equate law and morality.
Still though, there may be a case for order over justice anyway. In my opinion it takes three ingredients: you trust the system to work out justice for itself eventually, believe that consistent, oppressive order is necessary for its functioning, and believe that other means of change will fail. With historical context though, meeting those requirements seems utterly absurd to me. I'd like to make clear that I don't mean that rule of law is necessarily bad in principle, only that if we're to have laws they must follow from our moral will, not the other way around. Breaking an unjust law is the rejection of tyranny. Given that, and because I can't help myself, I'm gonna spew some opinion at you, so sorry for that, but it's for a good cause! I want to get across that there is a more meaningful conversation, that pointing out that "yes they're illegal" just leaves us talking past eachother.
So then, is this an unjust law? Is this like stealing from a bank? Are they taking anything from anyone? When it comes to taxes it's a bit unclear, but the SSA says they're a net positive for them at least, and they pay sales tax and many submit W2s, but anyway taxes are a moot point if immigrants had more freedom to be documented. Well they take jobs, right? That's somewhat disputable, but assuming that they do, what made those jobs ours other than the law? Why should we be privileged to work merely from personal history? IMO justice has no borders.
End of spew! It's a start, I hope. This kind of thing is, I understand, hard to talk about. There's always some bubble of "truth" we tend to shroud ourselves in. I don't think discourse is helped by an environment where the process of research falls so quickly into getting our biases confirmed for clicks or as propaganda. (Remember kids! If you know it's propaganda, it hardly works. I'm looking at you Heritage Foundation.) I'm perfectly open that there may be something I'm missing and I mean that.
I have to throw my two cents in on this issue that nobody ever addresses. Iif education is such a natural human right as was stated above why don't their home country supply it to them? Why is it up to the United States citizen to pay for the world to become educated? How come once they get educated they do not take their education back to their home country with them but they tend to stay here statistically speaking? Yet again stealing a potential job from an American and quite possibly a secondary education opportunity
This shouldn't be a left vs right issue,
And our personal feelings should never come into play when policy-making or in politics this has to be an issue of what is right towards the American taxpayer and citizens and what follows what our Constitution says.
I personally have major concerns when it comes to Illegal immigration, things like: What is the right thing to do to the American childrens that are already in schools that tend to be overcrowded with large classroom sizes, they already tend to be under funded in almost all states, our public school system is not healthy as anyone can see since out test levels have consistently dropped since the early 1960s.
What is the right to the American citizen who's First Responders are stretched a bit thinner due to Illegal immigration? What about the extra cost on our infrastructure?
Our hospitals? What about the housing market which is usually affected in the poorest communities affecting the least educated American citizens the most? Especially in major cities. Is it right for somebody to ignore our national Sovereignty I and come over a border illegally? Is it right for us to not even know who is here or how many people are here?
@@AtomicReverend Undocumented immigrants pay taxes and contribute to the economy by working and spending money. They don't get most of the government benefits that a citizen could even if they pay into those programs. I don't think it's fair to say they're "stealing jobs" any more than any other working person. Like most other people they work, but also by living in society they are creating jobs by increasing the demand for many different resources.
This is a strange case where the decisions made on both sides have merit to them. Education is a human right, especially for children that had no say in whether they wished to immigrate or not. On the other hand, the Supreme Court was never intended to handle local affairs. At least all ended well for the students and the school, and I hope I can say the same for the kids under DACA.
What gives the supreme court the right to force American taxpayers to pay for illegals education
@@poet7158 the fact that it’s called “The Supreme Court” answers your own question.
Also you best come to accept your tax payer dollars go to plenty of things you don’t support. In this case though I think spending money to have an education system that educates everyone regardless of their circumstances is what’s best. Education is open to all that want it, why should it be concerned about what your parents did (ie immigrate illegally) when a child has no say in the matter?
I personally believe that education should be a human right whether there illegal or legal residents or citizens.
Yes...
Wow, so what happened with kids who were citizens but born in another nation? As for DACA I say we need an pathway for citizenship that doesn't require the person to go to their nation of origin and doesn't punish them for crossing the border undocumented
Why shouldn't non-Americans be protected under the US constitution if they're in the US? Should we suspend due process too? This same argument was argued in the Dred Scott case if I'm not wrong. "Dred Scott cannot sue because he is not a US citizen". A bunch of bolognas if you ask me. These people are Americans putting their children through school for better lives.
So when is someone going to challenge a law that is basically an illegal law because the plaintiff’s were illegal and there for have no rights in this country
so when is someone going to tell you that undocumented immigrants share constitutional rights just like you and me and the 14th amendment protects undocumented immigrants under the equal protection clause.
@@isaacrios8392 The hell they do!! Prove to me in the constitution where that is explained!!
this is so wrong
They should have the right to education but at a high cost to cover taxpayer dollars. $1000 a YEAR for HS education? That’s even a bargain for 1970s lul.
L
This is going to sound heartless, but here goes...
Were the children's parents paying taxes? If so, some of that money would be going to fund education in the state, and the children should be entitles to be in school.
If not, then it's a whole other kettle of fish, and maybe the school district was in the right.
Yes, I'm a horrible, terrible, awful, rotten, no-good person with a heart made of Formica, but if you're not contributing to paying for education, then I'm sorry.
Why wouldn't you want the children of people who are already living in non-desirable circumstances to not be educated?
And yeah, I'd rather my taxes go to the education of all children, regardless of their status, than to fund institutions and wars I do not agree with.
so you'd want them to not have equal protection of the laws?? lmfao what
Typically schools are funded mainly via property tax, which everyone pays, either directly or indirectly (through rent). If you don’t want to count those contributing indirectly, you’d have to strip the right to education from all non-land-owning citizens and legal residents as well.
They should be handled exactly like the colonists were handled when moving to this country in the 1700s.
33rd
34th! :D
I agree with the courts decision but i believe the school district should be allowed to charge families who are illegally in the US, (families that are illegal immigrants and don't pay taxes). It would be unfair to other childrens in a school district with a lot of illegal immigrants because the school district could become underfunded, if the school district isn't allowed to bill illegal families that don't pay taxes
you do realize undocumented people also pay taxes, right?
Undocumented immigrants in the United States pay roughly $11.6 billion in taxes every year and they can't claim any money back. You should inform yourself better and not give false information.
yo lets say undocumented immigrants instead of illegal, otherwise great video! Very informative and concise!
yo lets just call them illegals. its shorter
@@jpmeyer09 lets just call them human being with rights regardless of any nationality...
@@adamdaniel8909 haha, yeah illegal aliens
@@jpmeyer09 so they're not humans beings is that what you're saying...?
Horrible decision
amazing decision
Go cry...
Now that Roe vs Wade is overturned it would be very interesting to see this challenged again, it uses alot of the same poor arguments Roe uses
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Sam Nel Didn't he say to keep it civil? Plus, from what I know about Mr. Beat's political beliefs, I don't think he's a fan of the current administration.
Daca needs to gets thrown back a few pages.. More important issues going on here..Personally we need a diabetic awareness group and try to rid the growing disease and flu is catching up with our vaccine to.. We need stuff like this first
This is called "whataboutism" and isn't a valid argument for any issue. Example: I don't have diabetes and couldn't care less about its awareness, let's fix our roads first!
Here is the awareness for diabetes
It will be titled "Americans put the fork down we are too fat!!" Diabetes is a growing problem because our waists are growing.
it is a concern of course don't get me wrong by me making light-hearted jokes about us in the USA being fat
DACA is also a major concern and issue as it cost American taxpayers money and it puts Americans at a disadvantage. It was a terrible thing for Obama to do it should have never been put in an executive order acid violates our rights as United States citizens. It is congress's job to solve this damn problem!
Undocumented citizens.*
How are you a citizen unless you have documents verifying that
*illegal aliens
They're aliens idiot
@@jpmeyer09 Bro, take a college class, read a textbook.
this is an interesting term, can you elaborate?
Should be deported if illegal unless we see fit to give citizenship
l cannot accept public tax money going to educate children who are basically non-entities, whose very existence in our country is illegal. OK, so they are humans; but not on taxpayer expense!
So you rather have an uneducated illegal or legal immigrants or educated illegal or legal immigrants...? Because I rather pick the educated one...
@@adamdaniel8909 l want the illegal scum booted out of our country. And this has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or language; an "undocumented" piece of **** with blonde hair and blue eyes is a criminal, while an African who has gone through the proper channels is kosher.
@@davestrasburg408 so you're saying they're not humans...?
@@adamdaniel8909 You are putting words in my mouth, as liberals tend to. Murderers, thieves, rapists, traitors and embezzlers are humans, which is why they get punished. Same with the "undocumented" lowlifes.
@@davestrasburg408 wait...I'm a liberal...? Well damn...I thought I was conservative as I can be...I was wrong...
Education is a privilege in my eyes
Yeah, based on that premise the Court would have voted against the students being allowed to attend public school
@@iammrbeat honestly, it is a privilege. The only thing people are privileged to is pursuing happiness. The thing here is that providing it for all makes sense when you consider cost and benefit. Universal healthcare however...
Is it a privilege to be able to write that education is a privilege?
no - wrong to take something that was written to correct Slavery in America and bestow it to illegal aliens children - which mean America never corrected slavery and this is another reason why the American slaves descendants are entitle to reparations money
there no real reason to follow the laws if the illegal Parents children are reward with free education
nice way to misinterpret the 14th amendment
The Supreme court needs to overturn this decision.