Triggered multiple flashbacks from my 55 years in refrigeration service/ install/engineering. PTSD is real. Glad and sad I finally retired. Keep your mental health in top performance with non- refrigeration hobbies and interests to mitigate the damage to your mind. If it was easy more people would be in the trade. I've read in the entire HVACR industry world- wide employs about 740,000 people. Only 20% or less are field service people! We service about 8 billion. And nobody knows or cares unless it's not working. Then everyone loses their minds!
The tile guy ,flr guy would probably use floor leveling to level out the flr. Its a compound they usually put on concrete or hard surfaces of floors before they lay the finishing tile, diamond plate, ect. But you are correct that flr is a Big Big mess. Years ago they used a frost freeze mixture after a rough in flr. Then put heaters in the floor to prevent the moisture and liquid frost to fight against the flr from rising. The difference in temp from opening door over time as you know creates a problem. Nothing you can do. You did what you could like you said its all on the customer. But don't create a tripping hazard it will come back to bite you, as you are a smart guy you know this. New walk - in coming when products start to go bad.
A door fitting video... But then this is HVACR Videos and you just know that it's going to be something really interesting and absolutely worth watching! By the time I'd watched right to the end this video had made fitting a regular door look like putting one foot in front of the other compared with fitting a new walk-in cooler or freezer door. Many thanks for putting this together Chris talking about the problems and details you have to pay attention to. Not being from the US, I learned a new word today - Cattywampus - which I admit I did look up just in case there was a specific meaning to it, which it turns out there is along with an interesting etymology. Thanks, Chris.
One tool you might want to consider for this job, especially the foam removal, is that scraper blade they make for sawzalls, combined with one of those smaller style (hackzall) saws. You'd have to be a little careful with it, but I've been amazed at what a job this tool can do, and that thin blade would slip right in behind the door jam and separate the foam.
Great Video! Freezer doors are a PITA! Especially when inside of a walk-in cooler. It takes time to correct the things that are wrong with them and sometimes the underlying issues (like the floor under the tile) might not ever get addressed. Heat is your friend in getting these things to last too. Lots of replacment door manufactures out there, they all seem to do it a little differently. I appriciate you sharing this content! 🙂
I worked 10 year door company . Making and installing walk in cooler and freezer door . For me , you should have level the door properly. Door seems fine to me . Now I am working as refrigeration tech .
Old school guy here. I needed to replace two cam-lock walls. One on each side,plus the header, that had a heated doorway as it was similar to your nightmare. A competent framing carpenter could handle that, insulate between and seal both sides with FRP. You can then bolt your entire door assembly directly to it without needing to take it apart. Tip, FYI.
You'd be surprised how easily the condensation finds its way in between the insulation and wall material, then just keeps freezing and ice jacking it apart.
Its expensive but theres a spray foam thats closed cells low pressure, used it on some huge window installs. Had problems with the regular foam warping the wood frames and cracked the glass and absorbing water or letting wind in.
Here in Germany, although spray foam is the most common stuff used, I have seen some expanding foam tape with windows. it is like a foam ribbon, you kind of have to press it together with your fingers and it expands again and seals. that stuff might be ideal for those gaskets on the frame. it makes everything tight, but you dont glue everything together with foam.
Honestly seeing the problems with the freezer in this video, I agree that it really needs a top-to-bottom redo and might have never been put together correctly in the first place.
To my mind, the use of spirit level 24" and 48"(or 72-78") would be handy to find out non flat areas on the walls. If the box itself has to have really vertical walls. It will not eliminate in-out steps completely, but to find curved spots - it could save you some time.
Can't say I've ever put a new door on before. Its definitely time consuming and lots of potential for it to really become a headache. Thanks for sharing
I found even the Blue Door & Window foam can bow the frames lightly at times. Door to my shop wasn't closing properly after spray foam. Solution was to run a sawzall in the gap (opened up an 1/8" gap) and suck down the screws.
For The spray foam you should get yourself a windshield reciprocating knife, the work knife is a misnomer as it is pretty dull but it works itself in but is wide makes quick work of cutting the spray foam.
Remember, the right tools for the job at hand. My tool for walk-ins was a cam-lock wrench. Anything past that other than electrical is wholly for another type of tradesman. They sunk as many years in their skills as you have with yours and it's honed!
By the looks of it, the entire box (wall, ceiling & floor) seal has been compromised and water has gotten into all of it and when it froze, it warped everything... The Restaurant is already FAR past time to replace the box... And when they do replace the box, they need to drop the level of the floor so the extra insulation panels brings the inside floor up to the same level as the outside floor creating a level transition from cooler to freezer...
Thanks Chris! Very interesting video... I can see this being extremely time consuming and finicky. Being "the idea fairly" sometimes 😉, I am wondering if the judicious and careful use of custom cut aluminum diamond plate would help with fitment issues and reinforcement. This installation definitely has floor issues and threshold issues and basically adding a door on a turd as stated, but as customer's are wont to do, it is likely not going to be fixed. Aluminum diamond plate is surprisingly easy to cut with the proper blade, and with the right silicone, bonds surprisingly well without additional fasteners, in one of many examples, a temporary fix for the threshold. Just thinking out loud and knowing you strive to provide the best service and product. Downside, additional time, money. Great job! And best!
I have a question. If the bolt-on style doors are poor quality, why aren't you installing a new in-frame door? Does the customer just not want one because it's more expensive? I presume it's a lot of work to install it into the old frame now that it's been mangled up a bit. I also imagine that these doors are a bit more expensive to straight up buy. They're also probably a little harder to find, due to being a specific opening size and shape.
For those places where the metal has separated from the wall, could you drill a hole, inject some adhesive and then use a vacuum cleaner to suck the metal back down?
It is likely that the reason it has separated is because of ice jacking from condensation seeping in and freezing. Once that happens, it's almost impossible to keep it from happening without replacing the panels.
Carpenter replaced the 8 foot wall for 800 bucks,plus materials at cost, but I insisted he added 10% for overhead and 10% for his job profit. He adopted this policy after he saw what I meant. I used it in my refrigeration company. It went: All parts or equipment at wholesale cost. Plus my labor costs, Then add 10% of overhead and operation, Then add 10% job profit and you bill them for the total. Never had a single complaint from the owner or bean counters in any business I billed. They were very happy and I made more than doubling the wholesale cost. Only for business. Residential can't grasp that concept. You're welcome. My MBA professor taught me that. Note* You can't violate the Clayton/ Sherman Act as business and residential are allowed to be billed differently.
@ 2:31 why don’t u use a slim hss bimetal flex saw ( this type of blade bends but cannot be broken/cracked ) with a handle (I have a Stanley Fatmax one) …
Wow, i am shocked that the dor frame is of wood. Is the walls in the box of the same design?? Over here in Europe we have Spescial foam elements "sandwitch elements" for this use.
I use the silver silicone when I can find it, but I believe that the outdoor rated silicone is good down to -40F. Just check the temp rating on the tube when you buy it.
Im curious, why doesnt the manufacturer use steel studs instead of lumber for the frame? you could even fill the steel frame with foam to insulate it and then the frame shouldnt be able to ever absorb moisture
@@Pwills best i can find suggests like maybe a $1 difference, and it seems it gets cheaper if you buy in bulk. Plus with storage it takes up less space and it lighter overall. And if it did increase the costs, wouldn't they just charge more for the door to cover the difference?
@@legionofanon I don't know I am just guessing but I would think it is cheaper to just nail a few bits of wood together rather than having to cut and weld and put together a load of metal but like I said I am just guessing if it is cheaper why not build them yourself and sell them you could make quite a bit of money if it is cheaper.
It always amazes me that for decades the entire US industry has been using these cheapest bolt on doors. I'd rather put a freezer (or fridge) on top of a concrete base and having proper door-frame where you can hang on any door.. Then again i might be spoiled for living in Europe and having concrete base for everything, so nothing gets really crooked.
@@briansmyla8696True and that is to costly for Americans i guess? For us that is nearly demanded, what we do from memory: 18cm of insulation 2x 18mm plywood and a 4mm epoxy top. But now the walls studs are directly onto the concrete base. Does mean we have to dig a hole about 30cm below floor level, but that is just the price required. I mean, you can do without it, but then you get into other paperwork (bad efficiency rating) and other mandatory things.
@@Eledore Well, here in the US there are a lot of buildings that weren't built with installing a freezer in mind. So it has to go in after the fact. And it's not ideal to have to step up into the freezer, but it is what it is. It looks to me like this freezer doesn't have an insulated floor, and that might be partly why it's buckling.
@@briansmyla8696 True, then again 100 year old buildings pose no direct problem if you dare. As i have seen them, even in a SubWay. But i must declare, i am usually not directly involved but been with plenty of fellow local business owners who i am friends with who don't mind calling me with issues. Reason why i stick my head into Manitowoc ice machines so much and why i found this channel.
Carpenter demolished it and it was all ready for the door in about 5 hours. Pays to stay in your lane of expertise. And you don't need the use of tweezers to pull your butt-hairs out one at a time
I don't get the whole "made in America" type of product which is just stamped metal or wood stapled together From enclosures to whole houses. Everything is just made to the cheapest and lasts only 2 years. But who cares, it is cheap, so just buy a new one
Our Country is in Serious Trouble and it’s going to take some Effort by Everyone to Reverse the Damage Done. Parents have a Difficult but a Very Important Job. 👍🙏
Triggered multiple flashbacks from my 55 years in refrigeration service/ install/engineering.
PTSD is real.
Glad and sad I finally retired.
Keep your mental health in top performance with non- refrigeration hobbies and interests to mitigate the damage to your mind.
If it was easy more people would be in the trade.
I've read in the entire HVACR industry world- wide employs about 740,000 people.
Only 20% or less are field service people!
We service about 8 billion.
And nobody knows or cares unless it's not working.
Then everyone loses their minds!
Respect from Arizona , always enjoy the professional attention to detail that has landed your company at the top of this profession
Thanks bud
He lives in a city with tons of work and people, similar to Phoenix. In Flagstaff there's limited work and limited talent. It's hard to grow here
The tile guy ,flr guy would probably use floor leveling to level out the flr. Its a compound they usually put on concrete or hard surfaces of floors before they lay the finishing tile, diamond plate, ect. But you are correct that flr is a Big Big mess. Years ago they used a frost freeze mixture after a rough in flr. Then put heaters in the floor to prevent the moisture and liquid frost to fight against the flr from rising. The difference in temp from opening door over time as you know creates a problem. Nothing you can do. You did what you could like you said its all on the customer. But don't create a tripping hazard it will come back to bite you, as you are a smart guy you know this. New walk - in coming when products start to go bad.
A door fitting video... But then this is HVACR Videos and you just know that it's going to be something really interesting and absolutely worth watching!
By the time I'd watched right to the end this video had made fitting a regular door look like putting one foot in front of the other compared with fitting a new walk-in cooler or freezer door. Many thanks for putting this together Chris talking about the problems and details you have to pay attention to.
Not being from the US, I learned a new word today - Cattywampus - which I admit I did look up just in case there was a specific meaning to it, which it turns out there is along with an interesting etymology.
Thanks, Chris.
One tool you might want to consider for this job, especially the foam removal, is that scraper blade they make for sawzalls, combined with one of those smaller style (hackzall) saws. You'd have to be a little careful with it, but I've been amazed at what a job this tool can do, and that thin blade would slip right in behind the door jam and separate the foam.
Very glad to see I’m not the only one who hates doing these walk in doors 😭
Great Job!!! Made sure everything worked properly before spray foam and silicon!
Great Video! Freezer doors are a PITA! Especially when inside of a walk-in cooler. It takes time to correct the things that are wrong with them and sometimes the underlying issues (like the floor under the tile) might not ever get addressed. Heat is your friend in getting these things to last too. Lots of replacment door manufactures out there, they all seem to do it a little differently. I appriciate you sharing this content! 🙂
Hate doing doors . Always ends up being a whole day thing pretty much especially when it’s a freezer
I worked 10 year door company . Making and installing walk in cooler and freezer door . For me , you should have level the door properly. Door seems fine to me . Now I am working as refrigeration tech .
Old school guy here.
I needed to replace two cam-lock walls. One on each side,plus the header, that had a heated doorway as it was similar to your nightmare.
A competent framing carpenter could handle that, insulate between and seal both sides with FRP.
You can then bolt your entire door assembly directly to it without needing to take it apart.
Tip, FYI.
You'd be surprised how easily the condensation finds its way in between the insulation and wall material, then just keeps freezing and ice jacking it apart.
Its expensive but theres a spray foam thats closed cells low pressure, used it on some huge window installs. Had problems with the regular foam warping the wood frames and cracked the glass and absorbing water or letting wind in.
Here in Germany, although spray foam is the most common stuff used, I have seen some expanding foam tape with windows. it is like a foam ribbon, you kind of have to press it together with your fingers and it expands again and seals. that stuff might be ideal for those gaskets on the frame. it makes everything tight, but you dont glue everything together with foam.
Honestly seeing the problems with the freezer in this video, I agree that it really needs a top-to-bottom redo and might have never been put together correctly in the first place.
To my mind, the use of spirit level 24" and 48"(or 72-78") would be handy to find out non flat areas on the walls. If the box itself has to have really vertical walls. It will not eliminate in-out steps completely, but to find curved spots - it could save you some time.
Thanks!
Thanks so much for the donation
Great Video. Thank you for sharing. First time I saw walk in freezer door replaced.
If the spray foam is pushing out then use the low expending small gap filler spray foam.
Physics are real. If I'd were in the US I'd work with you. Quality!
Can't say I've ever put a new door on before. Its definitely time consuming and lots of potential for it to really become a headache. Thanks for sharing
Then you still await the baptism.
@@halverde6373 lol....i don't work on any reefer equipment anymore. So that baptism....is still on hold. 😆 🤣
Good job Chris.
Thanks!
Great job Chris. Been through this before kitchen people are rough on them. Very time consuming to replace.
I found even the Blue Door & Window foam can bow the frames lightly at times. Door to my shop wasn't closing properly after spray foam. Solution was to run a sawzall in the gap (opened up an 1/8" gap) and suck down the screws.
Indeed.
What the door manufacturers send should be what you use.
They make thousands of them and knows what works or doesn't.
Liability issues.
For The spray foam you should get yourself a windshield reciprocating knife, the work knife is a misnomer as it is pretty dull but it works itself in but is wide makes quick work of cutting the spray foam.
Remember, the right tools for the job at hand.
My tool for walk-ins was a cam-lock wrench.
Anything past that other than electrical is wholly for another type of tradesman.
They sunk as many years in their skills as you have with yours and it's honed!
You should do a show for pbs called this old freezer
Man… one of those thin, wide nail puller pry bars would be nice for prying off the frame without denting the sheet metal.
By the looks of it, the entire box (wall, ceiling & floor) seal has been compromised and water has gotten into all of it and when it froze, it warped everything...
The Restaurant is already FAR past time to replace the box...
And when they do replace the box, they need to drop the level of the floor so the extra insulation panels brings the inside floor up to the same level as the outside floor creating a level transition from cooler to freezer...
I wonder if the wood was treated or just for interior use? Or would it make a difference.
Agree looks like a job for a patient person.iam not one of them for a door.😅
Thanks Chris! Very interesting video... I can see this being extremely time consuming and finicky. Being "the idea fairly" sometimes 😉, I am wondering if the judicious and careful use of custom cut aluminum diamond plate would help with fitment issues and reinforcement. This installation definitely has floor issues and threshold issues and basically adding a door on a turd as stated, but as customer's are wont to do, it is likely not going to be fixed. Aluminum diamond plate is surprisingly easy to cut with the proper blade, and with the right silicone, bonds surprisingly well without additional fasteners, in one of many examples, a temporary fix for the threshold. Just thinking out loud and knowing you strive to provide the best service and product. Downside, additional time, money. Great job! And best!
I have a question. If the bolt-on style doors are poor quality, why aren't you installing a new in-frame door?
Does the customer just not want one because it's more expensive? I presume it's a lot of work to install it into the old frame now that it's been mangled up a bit.
I also imagine that these doors are a bit more expensive to straight up buy. They're also probably a little harder to find, due to being a specific opening size and shape.
For those places where the metal has separated from the wall, could you drill a hole, inject some adhesive and then use a vacuum cleaner to suck the metal back down?
It is likely that the reason it has separated is because of ice jacking from condensation seeping in and freezing. Once that happens, it's almost impossible to keep it from happening without replacing the panels.
do you have a walk-in fridge, or freezer full build and/or install condo? I've never seen that...
Do walk in cooler bolt on last longer in your opinion?
I would hate doing those doors.
Silicone is my best friend for crap like this.
Exactly it will keep the water out until they can fix the floor
@@HVACRVIDEOSdo your best and silicone the rest in action
@@JamesTK Silicone is rated for 20 years.
That's all.
Carpenter replaced the 8 foot wall for 800 bucks,plus materials at cost, but I insisted he added 10% for overhead and 10% for his job profit.
He adopted this policy after he saw what I meant.
I used it in my refrigeration company.
It went:
All parts or equipment at wholesale cost.
Plus my labor costs,
Then add 10% of overhead and operation,
Then add 10% job profit and you bill them for the total.
Never had a single complaint from the owner or bean counters in any business I billed.
They were very happy and I made more than doubling the wholesale cost.
Only for business.
Residential can't grasp that concept.
You're welcome.
My MBA professor taught me that.
Note* You can't violate the Clayton/ Sherman Act as business and residential are allowed to be billed differently.
@ 2:31 why don’t u use a slim hss bimetal flex saw ( this type of blade bends but cannot be broken/cracked ) with a handle (I have a Stanley Fatmax one) …
Someone local is truing to charge me 10k to get this done to my restaurant
Do you have the contact for that door manufacturer???
This video was swell! 🤣
Wow, i am shocked that the dor frame is of wood. Is the walls in the box of the same design?? Over here in Europe we have Spescial foam elements "sandwitch elements" for this use.
No the walls are not wood they are sandwiched foam walls the wood door is an aftermarket item
Need this done at my restaurant who can i find to do this in south texas willing to service Corpus Christi tx
What type of silicone did you use? Is it something HD sells or special type of silicone?
I use the silver silicone when I can find it, but I believe that the outdoor rated silicone is good down to -40F. Just check the temp rating on the tube when you buy it.
Couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve put bolt on doors on they always suck
Try one in Oklahoma with our humidity!
Interesting that the industrial revolution created specialists.
Before that, a barber was also a surgeon!
The first "specialist."
How long did this take?
All day
Where are your door flaps?
Im curious, why doesnt the manufacturer use steel studs instead of lumber for the frame? you could even fill the steel frame with foam to insulate it and then the frame shouldnt be able to ever absorb moisture
My guess would be cost.
@@Pwills best i can find suggests like maybe a $1 difference, and it seems it gets cheaper if you buy in bulk. Plus with storage it takes up less space and it lighter overall. And if it did increase the costs, wouldn't they just charge more for the door to cover the difference?
@@legionofanon I don't know I am just guessing but I would think it is cheaper to just nail a few bits of wood together rather than having to cut and weld and put together a load of metal but like I said I am just guessing if it is cheaper why not build them yourself and sell them you could make quite a bit of money if it is cheaper.
@@Pwills steel studs don't need to be welded, you screw into them just the same
@@legionofanon so why don't you make them yourself and make some money
Replaced a floor and a door in a existing walk in freezer, the floor was hooved the worst I’ve ever seen
It was not fun
It always amazes me that for decades the entire US industry has been using these cheapest bolt on doors.
I'd rather put a freezer (or fridge) on top of a concrete base and having proper door-frame where you can hang on any door..
Then again i might be spoiled for living in Europe and having concrete base for everything, so nothing gets really crooked.
Problem with concrete base is that it will frost heave. You need a fully insulated floor when you put a freezer on concrete.
@@briansmyla8696True and that is to costly for Americans i guess?
For us that is nearly demanded, what we do from memory: 18cm of insulation 2x 18mm plywood and a 4mm epoxy top.
But now the walls studs are directly onto the concrete base. Does mean we have to dig a hole about 30cm below floor level, but that is just the price required.
I mean, you can do without it, but then you get into other paperwork (bad efficiency rating) and other mandatory things.
@@Eledore Well, here in the US there are a lot of buildings that weren't built with installing a freezer in mind. So it has to go in after the fact. And it's not ideal to have to step up into the freezer, but it is what it is. It looks to me like this freezer doesn't have an insulated floor, and that might be partly why it's buckling.
@@briansmyla8696 True, then again 100 year old buildings pose no direct problem if you dare. As i have seen them, even in a SubWay.
But i must declare, i am usually not directly involved but been with plenty of fellow local business owners who i am friends with who don't mind calling me with issues.
Reason why i stick my head into Manitowoc ice machines so much and why i found this channel.
I WOULD NOT HAVE TOUCH THAT WITH A BARGE POLE.
Never seen wood used under a freezer door threshold. Seems like a bad idea
It's not ideal, but I do see it a lot. The threshold gets a lot of abuse, so it's likely that it will have to be replaced every few years anyway.
Carpenter demolished it and it was all ready for the door in about 5 hours.
Pays to stay in your lane of expertise.
And you don't need the use of tweezers to pull your butt-hairs out one at a time
I don't get the whole "made in America" type of product which is just stamped metal or wood stapled together
From enclosures to whole houses. Everything is just made to the cheapest and lasts only 2 years. But who cares, it is cheap, so just buy a new one
its sinking
I'm no longer allowed around silicone for copious overuse to fix things, too bad custo.. human stupidity can't be fixed with a dab of silicone
Just a dab? Surely you used a few tubes instead
👍🏿
529 thumbs up
Our Country is in Serious Trouble and it’s going to take some Effort by Everyone to Reverse the Damage Done. Parents have a Difficult but a Very Important Job. 👍🙏
Frost eve and delaminated coldroom panels full of ice
Would you want a proctologist to preform surgery on your brain?
NOT ME!
Different skill set!
"Permafrost"? Don't say that to loud. The climate crazy's will stop you. Only place in all of California where you can see your breath.