****** HUMOUR WARNING ***** In one part of the video I make a humorous reference to all the dust on the machine (to avoid people feeling they have to message me about it) - and as a joke, I state "I'll be having a strong word with the housekeeper". This joke has resulted in complaints. People are angry that I will be speaking to the house staff in such a manner. The thing they haven't spotted though is that this was a joke - the joke is that it's ridiculous that I'd have a housekeeper. I chose the word housekeeper rather than cleaner because I was attempting to make the phrase as preposterous as possible - because pretty much no one has a housekeeper nowadays. It's more of a Downton Abbey or Upstairs Downstairs kind of era (and then only in wealthy houses) - the kind of thing that died out well over fifty years ago. Occasionally people who don't have time to clean and can afford it might have a cleaner come in once a week - but that's still a very rare thing. I've never met anyone who doesn't clean their own house - and I'm the same. The joke was that obviously I'd be the person on the end of the 'strong word' - so I'd be telling myself off for not dusting. Yes, jokes aren't funny when you have to explain them. I suppose this is a good example of humour not travelling well. I suspect that the people who didn't get the joke aren't from the UK, so perhaps they think that housekeepers are a thing here. They've seen episodes of shows like Downton Abbey or watched films like Mary Poppins and think that everyone in 'Merry old England' wears a bowler hat and carries an umbrella and goes to work on a red bus and each house has a staff of cooks and maids and a butler. Anyway now I'm just off to hang some clothes on the washing line before getting the vacuum cleaner out - that's real life. So please try to lighten up, don't be so ready to get offended - life is too short to spend it looking for things that wind you up.
I feel offended by your Warning! Now I can't make up my own decision about weather or not this joke would have offended me. And I feel offended by your statement that life is short! I have a big life time! Even my wife said so!
Oh c'mon, everyone knows if you have to explain a joke it isn't funny. You'll have to be a bit less subtle next time, you're too clever for your own good :)
Having not seen the video yet, I can't help but think "if there's a magical button to make it sound better, why not always make it sound better... why does it need a button?" Haha
@@ZX3000GT1 Long ago comment, but in that case it really does make a big difference, visible to the eye. Some people dont like that difference though, and prefer the normal fram rate. There is sometimes also artifacting involved that some are more sensitive to than others. So all in all, there are good reasons for there to be an on and off setting, my projector even got 5 levels. So not a scam, like this can be said to be.
I adore your easygoing attitude and the humor. You're an audiophile after my own heart. You make it fun rather than a competition, which is what it's about, isn't it?
He's not an audiophile is what you're saying. We audiophiles like to suck all the fun out of the hobby and make it solely about worshipping expensive pieces of gear. To hell with actually listening the music. I listen to only frequency sweeps from 20hz-96khz and constantly claim I can hear or rather "sense" sounds over the 20khz limit.
This kind of video makes me feel good to be alive. It's not something I would have sought out on RUclips necessarily (I'm not really a Cassette fan or anything) but I so appreciate the effort that has gone into this video not only from a technical standpoint but to make the subject interesting to pretty much any viewer. No wonder Techmoan is often cited as a channel that other popular youtubers subscribe to. Well done sir! Well done!
Like the high-end audio cables mentioned in this video, we must have been "gold-plated and kissed by the pope" to be lucky enough to have our music featured for a second time on your channel. Even though the high-resolution feature of the Toshiba Aurex Hi-Res Cassette Deck turned out to be a bit of a disappointment, your puppet show at the end of the video was a clever smashing success. Bravo!
RE: Vocal Down function: This works by putting the stereo tracks out of phase, then combining them. Since most pop mixes put the main vocal in the center, this procedure results in nearly complete cancellation of the main vocal (or anything else that is mixed mono center). However, many audio mix engineers like to pan the echo from the main vocal left-right even though the soloist is mono center. This means that the vocal down function will fail to cancel the echo, even if it works for the main. That's what your brief test sounds like to me.
In Audacity, if you use the Invert function on one waveform, line things up perfectly, and then mix it with the one you're comparing with, it'll subtract whatever's the same and leave only what's different between the two. Might be useful for future videos.
You could totally do this with CDs but there’s not a chance you’d be able to do this with a tape, especially on this machine, due to the wow and flutter differences between two recordings.
@@VFuzball What he said. He's used the technique before and that's exactly right. you could sync the waveform up, but there's just too much pollution there,
@@VFuzballFunnily enough, when you search about ripping CD's online, you find a ton of info how you should use EAC, accuraterip etc... And basic free ripping software, or gasp! OS' own is bad. However the fact that you can do that with ang CD's so easily proves that any basic ripping software does 100 % perfect rips, save for rare damaged CD or issues with CD reader. Those slow complicated software to fix and verify are just another example of snakeoil in audio.
Salamihawk That LCD was limited, not just by it's price, but also by the crazy idea to stick it in the cassette player lid where you're supposed to have a window to see the tape position.
OMG.I have heard about the mighty Nakamichi Dragon,but i never thought i would never see one work in action to realise the quality.Thanks Techmoan.You allways surprise me even more with every video you upload.
What's interesting to me (as a 20-something) about cassette is how much technology there was surrounding it that was dedicated to making it sound better. Tape formulations, Dolby Noise Reduction of different types, direct-drive mechanism, etc. There was an entire industry dedicated to making them sound better than they did when they were introduced.
That's what humans do with music. You could argue that the development of modern instruments was already the same... from simple strings or lyres (handheld harps) to violins, from simple spinets or similar things to pianofortes... and when they invented recording media like wax cylinders or well "records" they did the same, trying to find a way to make it sound better, to improve the experience, to make it vibe better... call it however you want... people always look for just the tad more enjoyment in arts.
We don't need that industry (to make tape sound better), if a the beginning when Philips invent the cassette Philips engineers decided to use a higher tape speed (20% higher) and a wider tape (20% wider). Same thing happen to CD, the Philips and SONY engineer decided to use 44.1 Khz sampling rate which is just enough to recording the highest frequency 20KHz audio that human ear can heard (Based the theory ). But Real World is always different from the Theory. Now although you have High-Res (higher sampling rate digital audio and DSD) but if the master tape is still 44.1KHz sampling rate than there is no benefit gain (in audio quality) whether you are using High-Resolution audio or not. Same thing happened to CD player-an entire industry dedicated to making/produce CD player which they claim sound better which cost you at least US$5,000 for one so called "Top model High End CD player"
@@chengfansoon1534that's interesting. if i'm not mistaking you're saying both formats more or less needed more "headroom" [metaphorically] in their quality. but they instead cut corners to develop something more cost efficient. it seems to always come down to money, and on the average consumer end it's not much different, whatever will get the job done. love tapes and wish there was a more established standard. seems like much of its initial phasing out was due to misinformation, consumer level products and somewhat lack of care going into making them. i feel they have decent potential, but it's a confusing thing to navigate even suggesting a friend where to buy a tape player. so much potential, yet so many variables.
@@Andersljungberg That is all? Geez, that 'Hi-Res' "certificate" is really worthless then! I'd like to call that fraud, but it technically isn't, it's just misleading...
@@Andersljungberg That is the requirement, 24 bit/96 kHz FLAC and WAV. The thing is that it's now cheap to buy a DAC that does that, regardless of the speakers and output electronics. www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en
the kind of people who would buy this would not own any hi-fi equipment and franky, anything more than a phone speaker probably sounds amazing to them.
Even through laptop speakers, with RUclips's compression, the Nakamichi sounds phenomenally better... frequency response, stereo separation, less distortion.
To be honest, I'd expect my old salvaged Aiwa deck to give a better performance than this... or even the tacky but cherished old Amstrad CD-1000 microsystem mouldering in the back of one of my cupboards. Its effective frequency range (if we use the usual standard of the cutoff being where the amplitude of high-intensity white noise falls to 10db below peak) looks to be something like 150hz at the bottom end to not more than 10khz at the top, which is the kind of performance I'd have expected from one of those five quid Argos ownbrand personal stereos from the mid 90s ... like, the ultra basic ones which didn't even have a rewind function, only play and fastfoward (...which was just play without the pinch roller being pushed onto the capstan or the head onto the tape). Except this thing costs about 40x more. I mean, they probably still wouldn't stand up to the Dragon, but they'd all come a lot closer to it's performance than that of the Aurex. The difference was pretty stark even on my laptop with its tinny built-in speakers, one of which isn't even working properly so I've only really got the right-hand channel (which seems to be badly overamplified in compensation)...
Why, just get yourself a decent tapedeck, a nice turntable along with a cool amplifier and great speakers and have fun listening to all these obsolete stuff, of which we (as we where born in the old age, prior 2000;) all familiar with...and stop thinking about phones, mp3 and stuff...but if you do, simply turn the volume knob right until your mind is made up right ;)
I was tooo much in love with HiFi equipment, years ago, at my particular level.... but TechMoan is so OUT THERE, INCREDIBLE with all this gear he finds and fixes.... absolutely entertaining and enjoyable. TechMoan has truly inspired me to get my own equipment from decades past fixed and operational again. Will be very, very expensive in time and/or money to have done, though. Thanks so very much TechMoan. Inspirational.
I think it means it is mostly cheap plastic and the cassette player will last about a year before the wear on the plastic parts will render the tape deck useless. The CD could last longer since these parts are primarily used for loading and ejecting. This thing should cost less than 100 us dollars.
16:27 The moment he says "The Best Cassette Recorder Ever Made" I blurt out "The Nakamichi Dragon" and instantly earned myself a geek point from the misses. Alas I have only a mere Aiwa AD-F770, not quite on the same planet as the Dragon but perhaps in the same star system.
I have a garage full of new old stock Dragons if you want one for a £50. Nah, I'm kidding, but it was worth it to feel the Earth's population's collective pulse rise for a second.
I started to dabble with Hi-Res, until it dawned on me that at 52 I was not in a position to get the benefit. It's quite dispiriting but sadly you can't buy your way into hearing better than an 18 year old.
It's not so bad when you realize that the entire range from 10kHz to 20kHz is just one octave. There's plenty of remaining music to be enjoyed, so just get on with it and don't worry unless mixing audio is your job. :)
And I was hoping it could be a viable option to getting one of those old premium players. Ah well, I guess we’re better off finding some good ones on ebay. ;) The audio engineer in me looks very sceptically at the whole Up Convert thingy claiming it can re-create something that isn’t there... 🤨 That’s just like upscaling images and you get anti aliasing because the data is not there anymore. «Emperor’s New Feature» indeed. Great review though, as always! :D
Exactly. I cannot see how to add data that just isn't there, especially since this is clearly designed to output to modern, low-range speakers. Such a shame, since it could be a great unit that leverages modern production methods to make high-end tech available again.
Actually, upscaling images can be really impressive. Of course, it's not as good as having a better resolution source, but by running some AI on GPUs you can get some pretty amazing results, especially for cartoon- or anime-type images. Check out the waifu2x algorithm at its home github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x or on this impressive demo: ruclips.net/video/N9Mz3aCbPOI/видео.html I can't see any reason why you couldn't do the same with audio. Unfortunately, the domain of audio is plagued with people who claim and rate things based on some voodoo instead of any even remotely scientific methods, so even if there were some truly amazing algorithm to recover what has been lost on inferior formats or masters, finding that true gem in the sea of rubbish would be a great challenge. And, as the puppet section pointed out, most people can't even hear the difference between CD quality and hi-res - at least if we're talking about fully mastered mixes, hi-res during production is a completely different story. But imagine an AI that could recover the dynamics from overcompressed CDs! That actually doesn't seem impossible...
that’s exactly how i feel. he’s very warm, friendly and inviting to watch. it’s very comforting to watch him and his videos. he’s like the grandad i never had 😂
First of all, thanks @Techmoan for brilliant reviews! Just wanted to mention there were already cassette decks with kind of digital "up-convert" function from Pioneer in mid 90s (e.g. CT-W806DR I own), which were equipped with relatively hi-quality AD DA converters and...Legato link conversion, that was common tech for the Pioneer CD players of that times, which is btw "restoring" the high frequencies above 20KHz that might have been lost on CD or were not there at all ;-). Why I am saying it is hi-res is that I have actually tested my deck digital input feeding it with digital audio of different bit depth/sampling frequency combinations, and it was able to accept up to 24bit/88KHz, which is Hi-Rez(!), while I believe it was only officially supposed to be supporting up to 20bit/48KHz. One more observation - I believe that mechanical sensor in the middle is not really to detect Metal tapes (otherwise why not to have also a Cr sensor?), but rather to actually detect whether a tape is there (similar sensors you may find in Walkmans or other cassette decks), but since Metal type is not supported, this is not placed very accurately? While not being able to record Metal tapes, this unit should for sure be able to play them back with proper equalization in Cr position.
The sampling rate on that (obviously) digital VU meter is just horrible. But at least the whole machine is horrible :D The muppet segment at the end is just golden :)
I Love Audio Compact Cassette Tapes! They bring me only good memories. That's why I never stopped playing or recording them. I'm listening to an audio compact cassette tape right now I recorded last night with my friends.
Dunno, but I could send you some water blessed by Les Paul to sprinkle over everything. Only $1,999 for 10ml ;) Supplied in an oxygen free plastic bottle.
@@macartm is the bottle BPA free? Personally I prefer that water to have been shipped in in hand blown glass bottles by Jimi Hendrix made with only the highest quality free range organic sand and corked by Brian May
I think the best brand new cassette deck out there right now is the Tascam CD-A580. Even though it's $400 if you want new that's the only option that comes anywhere close to the standards set when good equipment was being manufactured. It supports normal, chrome and metal but does not have dolby. BTW I just found this channel and it's spot on man!
I live in Japan. This machine is for old folks. Anyone who knows their audio will go to one of the many many many shops that sell vintage stuff, often looking like new with prices to match. Btw, still enjoy this video but then again I'm a huge teachmoan fan.
A note on vocal down. In audio is center cancel. Most everything is panned even a little left or right, with the exception of the main vocals in most cases. By reversing the phase of one channel everything both left and right have in common will be phased out, aka common mode rejection. The vocal down worked, but the original recording had stereo reverb on the main vocals. This led to the dry signal being phased out, but the panned wet signals still remained as they were not identical on both left and right channels. Sorry for the nit picky comment. It’s just I’m an audio engineer and love it. I love the content. People like you who spend quality time listening to sound quality are my motivation.
The dragon, is ok for all non-pro audio guys...if you want a nice pro audio deck: tascam 234 (MK-II or a modified one to have the usual 1 7/8 IPS) or 322, eumig FL-1000, revox B-215, Marantz Professional Pmd-300cp, just to name a few....
from my experience, most vocal removal functions (even the one in the 3DS) are set up like that (I played around with the vocal removal function on the 3DS quite a bit, and some tracks come out really weird with it turned on)
They should have tried with something like the old "Stereo Wide'' function some boomboxes had. It's a quite simple and effective electronic function that adds a bit of artificial stereo separation mixed with some EQ-mojo to make it a bit brighter as well. No pretense of "high resolution" or even "hi-fi". One example in particular comes to my mind: I have an East German RFT model SKR-601 radio cassette with that feature. On normal stereo it sounds decent, but when you switch it to "Wide"...holly hell does it sing. For an 80s plastic boombox it actually makes it sound like a bigger stereo system and it's clear as a bell too.
Same here. My parents bought a small boombox (a mid-price Chilean IRT double cassette / radio). Stereo... mmm, not bad. Wide... wow! I remember I wore a pair of headphones and put on a loved cassette tape on it. I was overjoyed.
I do not regard the table top unit as junk. True it is no where near the performance of a Nakamichi DRAGON or a ZX-9 (I regard the ZX-9 as better than the DRAGON). It does illustrate that the cassette format is a phenomenal medium to listen to music. Perhaps Toshiba (Aurex) will have another go at it and make a new and improved machine. Long live the cassette!!
200 dollars for a piece of, to be blatantly honest, crap... they must be mad?! The kind that should go in the loony bin. This type of machine would cost 40 dollars, or maybe 30 in a sale. Well, if we were back in the 90s at least.
Joshua Noble Makes me wonder what my Sony WM-DD33 Walkman would go for, as it is in excellent condition, including a new center gear bought from Marian at Stereo2go. If I go by the logic that the better the product the more it is worth, I think new it would be 2000 dollars and second hand maybe 1200 dollars? Lmao... I know they are in the 250-300 dollar range if I remember well.
Why is it able to play back Type II and not playback Type IV? My understanding was that for playback, Types II and IV were the same and it is only during recording that there is a difference.
The reason the "Vocal Down" button didn't function correctly is because most features like that are center cancelling, removing sound from the center of the stereo image where the vocals are usually placed. You'll notice the voice seems echoey in the video once the vocal down button is pressed, this is because that particular song had a stereo reverb on the vocals, so when you cancel the sound in the center of the stereo image all you have left is the sound of the echo.
There's a saying here in Germany that goes: "Etwas auf Herz und Nieren prüfen." Which means something like: Putting it through its paces. Your unique effort is the definition of it. Pure joy.
Interesting video. I've downloaded the two example files 'standard' and 'up convert' and had a look at them in Pro Tools. There is barely any difference at all between the two versions, however the 'up convert' version does have a very slight boost in the higher frequencies. I can only just hear this difference through high quality studio monitors and so the likelihood of hearing it through the built in speakers in the Toshiba unit is zero. Both versions tail off rapidly above about 7Khz though. Not good at all.
Great video as always. Definitely could hear the difference between the Nak and this thing, even on RUclips through crappy laptop speakers. As for what that "upconvert" button actually does, my guess is that it's trying to stretch the high frequencies of either compressed digital or "low res" analog tapes back up to or even above 20khz, which the standard amplitude waveform on Audacity wouldn't show. (The spectrogram view would.) But it's still trying to get blood from a stone. I would doubt it would sound any better to anyone, although these days with algorithm-based processing (if this deck is doing that), who knows. As your puppets point out, though, people our age probably wouldn't be able to hear the difference even if one exists. I know I can't hear anything over 16khz these days. One thing I can be somewhat understanding of on this deck is the fact that it can only record on Type I tapes; as far as I know that's all that's made any more. Type I blanks are still pretty common in Japan; you can even find them in the 100 yen stores. Type II and IV tapes are unicorns, though.
Have you ever heard of the phrase: "No highs, no lows, must be Bose"? That Toshiba Aurex's "frequency response" looks like it would be a perfect match for Bose speakers.;)
ct92404 I wouldn't pay more than $50 for one of these. Especially since I can go down to a thriftstore and find a big metal sony/Panasonic/etc cassette player for $20 or less.
Same thoughts here. I purchased a small Sony Hi-Res Walkman and when I upscaled my CD-quality FLAC recordings, the whole song sank down: low volume, tiny sound, a certain kind of artificial brightness *and* a strange grittiness, too. Didn't like at all. Without that Hi-Res selection, my song collection sounds totally amazing to my ears, well balanced basses, crisp high-end and a smooth like silk feeling. Maybe you can call me a dumbass, but I sorely miss the Megabass option offered on old cassette Walkman.
Yes. And that's exactly how it should sound. Basically, up conversion is a marketing term for upsampling. As you know, digital audio is sampled at certain hz/second. What this button is doing is upsampling the signal that it's played, introducing some harmonic expansion. The CD standard is 44.1 kHz, when upsampled to 192 kHz, there wouldn't be any *added* spectral quality from the original source (audio), but a bigger spectrum will be perceived. This would be more evident in some mids and especially high frequencies.
All the 'vocal down' button does is invert one of the tracks and mix the two together into a mono signal. This causes destructive interference and whatever is the same on both tracks (usually the vocal, dead centre) is cancelled out. Of course this doesn't work on all material, particularly if there are echoes and pans on the vocals!
Originally AUREX was Toshiba's brand for HiFi audio products from the mid-70's, as well as Panasonic/National/Matsushita's Technics, Mitsubishi's Diatone, Hitachi's Lo-D, Sanyo's Otto and Sharp's Optonica.
Finally, a longer muppet scene at the end. :) I'd like to see a full size episode (let's say 10 - 20 minutes) made entirely or mainly as a muppet-type show. :) You're good at it. :D
I find it funny that Anders Jensen is essentially banking on being the go-to option for tech youtubers who want to test cassette audio without getting a copyright strike. Clever little marketing strategy there.
Be N S O N Hehe, yeah it wasn’t planned, but it turned out well this way. I initially just offered my music for The 8-Bit Guy and Techmoan for them to have something ok to play without worrying about copyright strikes. Now it’s a win win situation really. :)
For reasons I can't fathom, the RUclips Music Library is indescribably awful. Anders Jensen is doing the world a great service by allowing us to avoid hearing it.
wondras I would say "you get what you pay for", but youtubers already are tacitly paying, by bringing more traffic to the site + retaining it. Making a better audio library seems like a pretty smart investment when you put it that way. But hey, it's getting Anders' amazing music out there so can't complain too much.
@ 5:15, this cassette deck has a low end mechanism which was the last one they ever built, but thanks to Tascam, they brought the cassette deck back to its roots and put out a cassette deck in 2018 with a higher end mechanism.
Just what a musician wants to hear after you listen to his music: “well, that was underwhelming” lol I know this is not a music review. Your music is very enjoyable Anders Jenson!
so essentially, it gives you a HF exciter and a zero-crossing clip interpolation (or whatever you'd call the equivalent when it's interpolating out of the noise floor rather than out of crossover distortion)? seems good in theory but in practice it doesn't look like it's doing very much at all. which is surprising because the technology absolutely does exist to artificially synthesize whole ranges of lost frequency space, and has for a while. without a more in-depth analysis of the hi res upconvert i can only guess at what is actually being done but it would seem to me like they wanted to use some bit of DSP that actually did do what they are advertising, but the piddly processing power of the final box couldn't handle it, and it was scaled back.
"Vocal down" takes advantage of the fact that most vocals are center panned, while instruments are panned left and right. It's sometimes called "center channel extractor" or "karaoke mode". What it does is mixes the stereo track to mono, and inverts the waveform of one of the tracks. What's left over is literally only the difference between left and right. The reason you get that echo of the vocals is that most reverb effects function in stereo. The dry vocal track is mono but the effects are stereo to widen the sound. So when you put this karaoke mode on with most tracks you'll have that ghost of the vocal effects left over. You can try this yourself in Audacity by splitting the stereo track, setting both tracks to mono, and applying the invert effect to one of the tracks.
Japan is freaking dead man. As soon as their elderly population die off the country will basically have to bootstrap themselves back into the modern world. There is a massive problem between their traditions and what you need to do in order to de-stress workers and re-populate your country.
I felt excited when I saw the box and a known brand. Then I saw the plastic, bad print of the letters etc. I was expecting an alu casing and something made with proud. I think some people would buy a fantastic machine like that even for 400 USD. I have a Panasonic radio 'boombox' with cassette and cd that was purchased in '92. It looks and probably sounds 100x better than this crap. Even the quality of the cassette mechanism is really nice. Disappointed in this new stuff is an understatement.
There are so-called sound engineers who think that 256kb MP3 is hi-fi. They've probably never heard anything recorded which can reproduce 20Hz to 20kHz with less than 3dB of level variation. Even the 'best' MP3 cuts off anything outside 50Hz to 14kHz, and then throws away 90% of what's left.
Just add a cheap quality ceramic cartridge-equipped turntable to the mix and it's pretty much just another retro "does everything but not that well" sound system... :P (Though it is 1-up on my Neostar out in the shed in that this toshiba can record to tape, not that I play them any more!!)
That's the same image that came to my mind. I remember those enormous and stylish-looking 3-in-1 sold at the very end on the 80's. They looked gorgeous, too many switches, colorful displays and many small lights. You put your beloved cassette on and... OMG, why??? sounds flat, no high ends and no basses at all. Those big speakers didn't rock the house. Just rubbish.
Any deck with auto azimuth will trample anything without, its sad that more midrange decks didn't get this tech as no two cassettes are ever recorded the same.
Although the Dragon is a bit of a beast itself. So many buttons and knobs! It looks like a prop team grabbed hold of a regular tape deck from the golden days and shoved more buttons and knobs in every available space as a prelude to putting it in a science fiction film.
Well, it's all down to what the average consumer wants, and for a dead format that's been revived with left over parts I'd say this thing is nice. It beats dealing with an old/used machine that's got a million or so issues. And like it or not these machines are the future for compact casette, because in the end, that's what the majority of people remember about the format; cheap machines which weren't really that good but did their job.
Great review, and I love vids that include puppetry skits. Very cool of you to run proper tests. Those graphs tell much more than YT compressed audio ever would. This product though...wow. It can't play Type II or metal tapes, no Dolby, It's genuinely ugly, interface on the top instead of the front, wussy speakers...Jeez. This is one sad product. I don't understand why this product exists. I don't see the market for it. Maybe this started as a good idea that went too far in the design process to pull the plug on when it became clear that it wasn't feasible to make an affordable high quality tape deck in the current state of the industry... The mid 90s JVC decks are still extremely affordable, and the high-end ones are still fantastic. In my early teens, I used to record church services as a service for shut-ins members with one, and it was a treat to use. We'd record the master on chrome with Dolby-C, and copies done on Type 1 /w Dolby-B. The copies sounded so good that only audiophiles would be able to tell it wasn't uncompressed digital. The church's sound-system probably created more hiss than the tape recording/playback added. If those mid-90s decks ever start getting scarce and expensive, only then should anyone try to make a new decent tape deck system. And it's gotta come from a company that is large enough to eat some initial investment costs to start making proper components; that or wander across a warehouse full of new-old-stock. I find this to be pretty unlikely though. Cassette just doesn't have the same love as vinyl, and I don't think it ever will.
Listening to the audio from the Toshiba on headphones and then through my phone's speaker, i have found out that the audio becomes more muffled when played back through the phone speaker as opposed when listening to headphones while the Nakamichi sounded the same in both cases. This means basically that the Toshiba has basically misaligned heads so the azimuth isn't right, which can also be observed on the graph. Modern boombox manufacturers just seem to simply not care about head alignment
It probably just runs the tape through a 96/24 or 192/24 AD-DA loop, which achieves nothing. I'm surprised they didn't put in a bit of treble EQ boost just to make it seem like it does something, that's what most companies do.
What for? There are more decent used cassette devices than the world needs really. Having one restored by a professional repairman is still cheaper than anything new would have to cost, considering engineering and production setup.
Lassi Kinnunen $400 would be a serious lowball figure. Major HiFi companies keep a margin of about 5 to maintain profitability, so essentially for $400 you have at most $50 worth of components and workmanship to work with, and even Shenzhen assembly line girls need to be paid $5/hr... I think if somebody wanted to release a deck today comparable to the good ones of the 80ies, it would need to retail for at least a grand. There would be no buyer to sell those to.
Yup, you all are correct. I must be insane to want and decent new machine. See with a new one then I don't have to spend all that time to get either restored or repaired lol. Just buy an old one lol man, I want a NEW one that isn't crap.. like I said ha!
mipmipmipmipmip The Dolby B and C patents expired a long time ago, but you still have to pay to use the name and logo, as they are still in the audio quality business.
i paid a grand in a store back in the 80s for my akai GX-75 when it was new and when it came to the need of a new belt set, i got in there and it looked like ok-ish regarding it being made in the 80s. When i bought the akai GX-R88 from ebay for half a grand nonworking, the tape mechanics are great (die-cast iron everywhere) while everything else (electronics and used components) is just under ok-ish with respect to its original price-tag.... If you want to buy an all new cassettedeck nowadays...you´re about to pay at least two grand....as there´s no more mid/hi-range stuff, no motors, no mechanics and no more machines to produce them....
OMG that puppet show at the end made me laugh so hard, I spit my soda out. That is by far the best puppet show ever and it about sums up the state of modern music. That puppet show is worth a million views all by its self. Go to the 23 minute mark to enjoy it. Great job techmoan.
I downloaded the samples and I can actually hear a little bit of difference on my iPhone. I will send it into my surroundsound system via AirPlay and that should tell me if it's an improvement. Yes, there is a slight difference there is a little more high-end and the mids are a lot warmer in the up converted version. One trick people do is that they boost up the high end in a comparison and people will always choose that one. That's why I always listen to the lows and the mid's as well. The low-end has good definition in the mid range has a good spread, The app converted is slightly better. The standard version isn't really that bad either. But it's not really that much of a difference. But if these recordings were taken from the standard and the up converted outputs, then I should be hearing pretty much what you heard through the unit. One thing that I have noticed is that my iPhone is pretty good as far as audio output, especially through airplay. I will copy these into my computer and throw them into sound Forge, which has a way of looking at the entire waveform on a graph.
Sound Forge rules! Hehe.. Using it for more than 20 years now.. best audio editor of all time i'd say. It's a shame Sonic Foundry got bought out by Sony.
Back in the day there was a swich on some deck called "loudness". Was like a pre-set equalizer that boosted low and high end, "improving quality" artificially by coloring the sound. At least they could do that on the "Up Convert" mode to "fool" the costumer a litle, but they don't even try.
Hello Techmoan - Wel I stumbled on this presentation by accident but thought your joke was very funny, and needed no explaination. I have to say I like your style and the many 'slight' comments you make, it really is a great skill - Its such a pity you had to explain ... Anyway I love these slightly satirical videos - there great work, and my many thanks -Sarah
****** HUMOUR WARNING *****
In one part of the video I make a humorous reference to all the dust on the machine (to avoid people feeling they have to message me about it) - and as a joke, I state "I'll be having a strong word with the housekeeper". This joke has resulted in complaints. People are angry that I will be speaking to the house staff in such a manner.
The thing they haven't spotted though is that this was a joke - the joke is that it's ridiculous that I'd have a housekeeper.
I chose the word housekeeper rather than cleaner because I was attempting to make the phrase as preposterous as possible - because pretty much no one has a housekeeper nowadays. It's more of a Downton Abbey or Upstairs Downstairs kind of era (and then only in wealthy houses) - the kind of thing that died out well over fifty years ago.
Occasionally people who don't have time to clean and can afford it might have a cleaner come in once a week - but that's still a very rare thing.
I've never met anyone who doesn't clean their own house - and I'm the same. The joke was that obviously I'd be the person on the end of the 'strong word' - so I'd be telling myself off for not dusting. Yes, jokes aren't funny when you have to explain them.
I suppose this is a good example of humour not travelling well. I suspect that the people who didn't get the joke aren't from the UK, so perhaps they think that housekeepers are a thing here. They've seen episodes of shows like Downton Abbey or watched films like Mary Poppins and think that everyone in 'Merry old England' wears a bowler hat and carries an umbrella and goes to work on a red bus and each house has a staff of cooks and maids and a butler.
Anyway now I'm just off to hang some clothes on the washing line before getting the vacuum cleaner out - that's real life.
So please try to lighten up, don't be so ready to get offended - life is too short to spend it looking for things that wind you up.
I love british humaaaaaa! from a french guy over side of the channel
Continue entertaining us plzzz
RUclips comment sections are a magical place.
There's a word for these people Mr.Moan.....'WANKERS!'.
I feel offended by your Warning!
Now I can't make up my own decision about weather or not this joke would have offended me.
And I feel offended by your statement that life is short!
I have a big life time! Even my wife said so!
Oh c'mon, everyone knows if you have to explain a joke it isn't funny. You'll have to be a bit less subtle next time, you're too clever for your own good :)
Thank you for your service. Yet another previously-tempting retro device I can happily avoid now!
Plus it's not in woodgrain
Wood grain patterned contact paper is a thing...
And aren't you his best friend! LOL. Just kidding. Couldn't help it.
Like this comment if, when you read an LGR comment, the voice in your head is Duke Nukem's.
Thanks Techmoan and LGR. I love your shows and the elegant humor. Puppets are just awesome! Greetings from El Salvador.
Having not seen the video yet, I can't help but think "if there's a magical button to make it sound better, why not always make it sound better... why does it need a button?" Haha
How else can you make your audio sound a bit shitty for a while if you're in the mood for shitty audio?
It's the same with frame rate interpolators in some TVs. It's a scam.
My old Sony HiFi has a button like this and you can actually hear a difference and with it on it does sound better.
It's like how every new car nowadays has a "go faster" button... Rather than that being just a matter of stepping harder on the gas
@@ZX3000GT1 Long ago comment, but in that case it really does make a big difference, visible to the eye. Some people dont like that difference though, and prefer the normal fram rate. There is sometimes also artifacting involved that some are more sensitive to than others. So all in all, there are good reasons for there to be an on and off setting, my projector even got 5 levels.
So not a scam, like this can be said to be.
I adore your easygoing attitude and the humor. You're an audiophile after my own heart. You make it fun rather than a competition, which is what it's about, isn't it?
I wholeheartedly agree
He's not an audiophile is what you're saying. We audiophiles like to suck all the fun out of the hobby and make it solely about worshipping expensive pieces of gear. To hell with actually listening the music. I listen to only frequency sweeps from 20hz-96khz and constantly claim I can hear or rather "sense" sounds over the 20khz limit.
I see more than two minutes left when the patreon credits start, and get excited for the puppets!
Fantastic puppets 😀
Upvote for puppets
I always skip forward to the "Childish and unfunny" muppets (sorry patrons)
Yesssss! I always am disappointed when I skip to the end and just see the reel-to-reel outro...FLIPPIN 'ECK
Actually their comments were exactly what was always said about quality hi-fi equipment!
This kind of video makes me feel good to be alive. It's not something I would have sought out on RUclips necessarily (I'm not really a Cassette fan or anything) but I so appreciate the effort that has gone into this video not only from a technical standpoint but to make the subject interesting to pretty much any viewer. No wonder Techmoan is often cited as a channel that other popular youtubers subscribe to. Well done sir! Well done!
Like the high-end audio cables mentioned in this video, we must have been "gold-plated and kissed by the pope" to be lucky enough to have our music featured for a second time on your channel. Even though the high-resolution feature of the Toshiba Aurex Hi-Res Cassette Deck turned out to be a bit of a disappointment, your puppet show at the end of the video was a clever smashing success. Bravo!
Candy Apple Blue
I'm loving the new album, guys!
Candy Apple Blue II
Thank you Makayla! Appreciate that very much. Your comment is music to our ears!
It’s not all a disappointment. The vocal down effect sounded really cool. Might be a good sound for a middle eight.
Never heard of you guys before but definitely from now on, I'll be hearing much more of you !!
RE: Vocal Down function: This works by putting the stereo tracks out of phase, then combining them. Since most pop mixes put the main vocal in the center, this procedure results in nearly complete cancellation of the main vocal (or anything else that is mixed mono center). However, many audio mix engineers like to pan the echo from the main vocal left-right even though the soloist is mono center. This means that the vocal down function will fail to cancel the echo, even if it works for the main. That's what your brief test sounds like to me.
In Audacity, if you use the Invert function on one waveform, line things up perfectly, and then mix it with the one you're comparing with, it'll subtract whatever's the same and leave only what's different between the two. Might be useful for future videos.
love your profile pic
Right. But your forgot one point. You need to swap the fase on one of the recordings
You could totally do this with CDs but there’s not a chance you’d be able to do this with a tape, especially on this machine, due to the wow and flutter differences between two recordings.
@@VFuzball What he said. He's used the technique before and that's exactly right. you could sync the waveform up, but there's just too much pollution there,
@@VFuzballFunnily enough, when you search about ripping CD's online, you find a ton of info how you should use EAC, accuraterip etc... And basic free ripping software, or gasp! OS' own is bad.
However the fact that you can do that with ang CD's so easily proves that any basic ripping software does 100 % perfect rips, save for rare damaged CD or issues with CD reader.
Those slow complicated software to fix and verify are just another example of snakeoil in audio.
“I’ve seen better LCDs on a Tamagotchi”
Loooool!
Salamihawk Savage. 😎
sik burn
Salamihawk That LCD was limited, not just by it's price, but also by the crazy idea to stick it in the cassette player lid where you're supposed to have a window to see the tape position.
OMG.I have heard about the mighty Nakamichi Dragon,but i never thought i would never see one work in action to realise the quality.Thanks Techmoan.You allways surprise me even more with every video you upload.
www.ebay.es/sch/items/?_nkw=nakamichi+dragon&_sacat=&_ex_kw=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&rmvSB=true :S
I own one of those cheap JVC decks and they sound pretty good. I'd love to own a NAK.
What's interesting to me (as a 20-something) about cassette is how much technology there was surrounding it that was dedicated to making it sound better. Tape formulations, Dolby Noise Reduction of different types, direct-drive mechanism, etc. There was an entire industry dedicated to making them sound better than they did when they were introduced.
That's what humans do with music. You could argue that the development of modern instruments was already the same... from simple strings or lyres (handheld harps) to violins, from simple spinets or similar things to pianofortes... and when they invented recording media like wax cylinders or well "records" they did the same, trying to find a way to make it sound better, to improve the experience, to make it vibe better... call it however you want... people always look for just the tad more enjoyment in arts.
We don't need that industry (to make tape sound better), if a the beginning when Philips invent the cassette Philips engineers decided to use a higher tape speed (20% higher) and a wider tape (20% wider). Same thing happen to CD, the Philips and SONY engineer decided to use 44.1 Khz sampling rate which is just enough to recording the highest frequency 20KHz audio that human ear can heard (Based the theory ). But Real World is always different from the Theory. Now although you have High-Res (higher sampling rate digital audio and DSD) but if the master tape is still 44.1KHz sampling rate than there is no benefit gain (in audio quality) whether you are using High-Resolution audio or not.
Same thing happened to CD player-an entire industry dedicated to making/produce CD player which they claim sound better which cost you at least US$5,000 for one so called "Top model High End CD player"
@@chengfansoon1534that's interesting. if i'm not mistaking you're saying both formats more or less needed more "headroom" [metaphorically] in their quality. but they instead cut corners to develop something more cost efficient. it seems to always come down to money, and on the average consumer end it's not much different, whatever will get the job done. love tapes and wish there was a more established standard. seems like much of its initial phasing out was due to misinformation, consumer level products and somewhat lack of care going into making them. i feel they have decent potential, but it's a confusing thing to navigate even suggesting a friend where to buy a tape player. so much potential, yet so many variables.
This comment has been up converted, it's better than all the other comments.
Hope it wasn’t up converted on this Toshiba!
Really? Like the button on the player, I can’t tell.
How does this new unit stand up to a second hand Nikamichi?
Masterful comic timing, Sir. I stand before you awaiting further instruction.
@@keithdubois1521 I'd choose the Nakamichi any day, provided that it was one from the golden years when the machines were still made in Japan.
"The Emperor's new up convert", love it. And the puppet bit was pretty funny too, and about sums it up.
It seems as time goes on, manufacturers can slap a Hi-Res logo sticker on any audio device.
This thing was a disgrace.
Anders Ljungberg And of any frequency above 44.1k Hz.
@@Andersljungberg That is all? Geez, that 'Hi-Res' "certificate" is really worthless then! I'd like to call that fraud, but it technically isn't, it's just misleading...
@@Andersljungberg That is the requirement, 24 bit/96 kHz FLAC and WAV. The thing is that it's now cheap to buy a DAC that does that, regardless of the speakers and output electronics. www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en
the kind of people who would buy this would not own any hi-fi equipment and franky, anything more than a phone speaker probably sounds amazing to them.
Funny. I was just thinking whoever came up with that Hi Res logo is Genius
Even through laptop speakers, with RUclips's compression, the Nakamichi sounds phenomenally better... frequency response, stereo separation, less distortion.
Same effect over my older phone's degrading speakers. The high end is just miles ahead.
It's also markedly better on an iPad with one small speaker. Never thought I'd ever say that about hi-fi kit.
Wow... with only one speaker, you don't even experience the amazing difference in stereo separation, which I find is the big difference.
It was so damned clear compared to that Toshiba junker.
To be honest, I'd expect my old salvaged Aiwa deck to give a better performance than this... or even the tacky but cherished old Amstrad CD-1000 microsystem mouldering in the back of one of my cupboards. Its effective frequency range (if we use the usual standard of the cutoff being where the amplitude of high-intensity white noise falls to 10db below peak) looks to be something like 150hz at the bottom end to not more than 10khz at the top, which is the kind of performance I'd have expected from one of those five quid Argos ownbrand personal stereos from the mid 90s ... like, the ultra basic ones which didn't even have a rewind function, only play and fastfoward (...which was just play without the pinch roller being pushed onto the capstan or the head onto the tape). Except this thing costs about 40x more.
I mean, they probably still wouldn't stand up to the Dragon, but they'd all come a lot closer to it's performance than that of the Aurex.
The difference was pretty stark even on my laptop with its tinny built-in speakers, one of which isn't even working properly so I've only really got the right-hand channel (which seems to be badly overamplified in compensation)...
"...not really 'low end', it's just *THE* end." Okay, I laughed out loud at that one. Then cried. Then died a little inside.
That's some good syllables Eminem! 😎
Um... Yup. Sigh...
Why, just get yourself a decent tapedeck, a nice turntable along with a cool amplifier and great speakers and have fun listening to all these obsolete stuff, of which we (as we where born in the old age, prior 2000;) all familiar with...and stop thinking about phones, mp3 and stuff...but if you do, simply turn the volume knob right until your mind is made up right ;)
Same here :) :( :S :X
TubiCal
And bin your cheap bluetooth speakers and plastic rubbish with ceramic cartridges 😊
I was tooo much in love with HiFi equipment, years ago, at my particular level.... but TechMoan is so OUT THERE, INCREDIBLE with all this gear he finds and fixes.... absolutely entertaining and enjoyable. TechMoan has truly inspired me to get my own equipment from decades past fixed and operational again. Will be very, very expensive in time and/or money to have done, though. Thanks so very much TechMoan. Inspirational.
If you spent the amount of time and money he has on this hobby, you would have the same collection.
The most damning thing about this is how you can hold it in one hand like it's a piece of styrofoam.
Thought that too as i was watching, quality home audio kit should be satisfyingly heavy.
I think it means it is mostly cheap plastic and the cassette player will last about a year before the wear on the plastic parts will render the tape deck useless. The CD could last longer since these parts are primarily used for loading and ejecting. This thing should cost less than 100 us dollars.
Good quality HI FI should really hurt if you hit someone with it.
Steve Lovelace - Agreed. You won't be able to do the same with that Dragon, that's for certain!
Yeah, they should take some cues from Beats, maybe some advice from Dr. Dre?
16:27 The moment he says "The Best Cassette Recorder Ever Made" I blurt out "The Nakamichi Dragon" and instantly earned myself a geek point from the misses. Alas I have only a mere Aiwa AD-F770, not quite on the same planet as the Dragon but perhaps in the same star system.
Even with RUclips's audio compression, the Dragon still sounded clearer.
God that thing is a real sexy beast.
I have a garage full of new old stock Dragons if you want one for a £50.
Nah, I'm kidding, but it was worth it to feel the Earth's population's collective pulse rise for a second.
Nobody cares @@Daijyobanai
@@L4ftyOne y u so sad? :(
"How many bits is Hi Res then?"
"Oh, all of them.."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
That nakamichi recorder is so beautiful with its painted brushed aluminum look
I always appreciate the time and effort you put into your videos. Thank you as always.
Skip to 23:20 for "funny, grown-up, & smart" puppets.
"You'll need a source..."
"Like bar-be-que?"
Best accent humor ever!
Yeah that was great !
Anonymous Freak or just watch the whole video and enjoy it all?
Colin Johnston It was counter-teasing those who complain about the puppets.
"Up Convert" button might as well be the" Got Yo Monay Fool!" button instead.
WaybackTECH it DOES upconvert junk into cash.
WaybackTECH it sounded like it added slightly more bass?
THE CHINESE STYLE LMAO
So many products from the East are built with exactly this sentiment.
What have I, what have I, what have I done to deserve this.....crappy tape player.
"Hi-res... records to digital media as 192kbps mp3...
I started to dabble with Hi-Res, until it dawned on me that at 52 I was not in a position to get the benefit. It's quite dispiriting but sadly you can't buy your way into hearing better than an 18 year old.
presterjohn71 I've dwelled far too long on this thought.
presterjohn71 I know what you mean,I miss my old hearing ☹
presterjohn71 ,
Eh !?
Whadja say there!?
It's not so bad when you realize that the entire range from 10kHz to 20kHz is just one octave. There's plenty of remaining music to be enjoyed, so just get on with it and don't worry unless mixing audio is your job. :)
Vivian Stimpson I'm almost 50, and I'm STILL confused every day! :)
And I was hoping it could be a viable option to getting one of those old premium players. Ah well, I guess we’re better off finding some good ones on ebay. ;)
The audio engineer in me looks very sceptically at the whole Up Convert thingy claiming it can re-create something that isn’t there... 🤨 That’s just like upscaling images and you get anti aliasing because the data is not there anymore. «Emperor’s New Feature» indeed.
Great review though, as always! :D
Anders Enger Jensen
Good observation 😊
Anders Enger Jensen
On the bright side we were treated to your music
Exactly. I cannot see how to add data that just isn't there, especially since this is clearly designed to output to modern, low-range speakers. Such a shame, since it could be a great unit that leverages modern production methods to make high-end tech available again.
Actually, upscaling images can be really impressive. Of course, it's not as good as having a better resolution source, but by running some AI on GPUs you can get some pretty amazing results, especially for cartoon- or anime-type images. Check out the waifu2x algorithm at its home github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x or on this impressive demo: ruclips.net/video/N9Mz3aCbPOI/видео.html
I can't see any reason why you couldn't do the same with audio. Unfortunately, the domain of audio is plagued with people who claim and rate things based on some voodoo instead of any even remotely scientific methods, so even if there were some truly amazing algorithm to recover what has been lost on inferior formats or masters, finding that true gem in the sea of rubbish would be a great challenge. And, as the puppet section pointed out, most people can't even hear the difference between CD quality and hi-res - at least if we're talking about fully mastered mixes, hi-res during production is a completely different story.
But imagine an AI that could recover the dynamics from overcompressed CDs! That actually doesn't seem impossible...
How did you post this comment 3 days ago when it just came out? Are you back from the future?
That Nakamichi sounds incredible. Brings me back to my childhood, listening to my dad’s hi-fi tape audio and being blown away by it.
You know the sound quality is Huge between Nakamichi and Toshiba when you can hear it on RUclips with a crappy tablet
Ending was brilliant :D
Pretty shocking, even the source was an MP3. Being there in person it must sound as good as a CD, from a cassette. Very impressive.
Tsuokari I could even hear it through the 10x2mm (approx) mono speaker on my phone! They must have gone out of their way to make it this crappy.
John Francis Doe
Me too x AWFUL 😊
I even heard the huge difference on a 3 cm diameter noname Chinese Bluetooth speaker... (which is surprisingly good quality despite the size).
£142 is daylight robbery
Techmoan is like the retrotech savy grandpa I've never had. Thank you Techmoan for allowing me to have this experience.
that’s exactly how i feel. he’s very warm, friendly and inviting to watch. it’s very comforting to watch him and his videos. he’s like the grandad i never had 😂
Mine was pretty much exactly like the puppet.
Apart from being green.
Well, greenish at least.
Grandpa?! Oh god you make me have a mid-life crisis with such statements...
Wow that LCD screen screams cheapness. They could've at least made it inverted to better match the color of the face plate.
That's like something out of a 90s novelty calculator. Pathetic.
Increased rubbish for an inflated price 😕
There's a very clear difference in audio quality between the Dragon and the Aurex, even on my phone speakers.
"The emperor's new up convert button"!
RUclips gold!
First of all, thanks @Techmoan for brilliant reviews! Just wanted to mention there were already cassette decks with kind of digital "up-convert" function from Pioneer in mid 90s (e.g. CT-W806DR I own), which were equipped with relatively hi-quality AD DA converters and...Legato link conversion, that was common tech for the Pioneer CD players of that times, which is btw "restoring" the high frequencies above 20KHz that might have been lost on CD or were not there at all ;-). Why I am saying it is hi-res is that I have actually tested my deck digital input feeding it with digital audio of different bit depth/sampling frequency combinations, and it was able to accept up to 24bit/88KHz, which is Hi-Rez(!), while I believe it was only officially supposed to be supporting up to 20bit/48KHz. One more observation - I believe that mechanical sensor in the middle is not really to detect Metal tapes (otherwise why not to have also a Cr sensor?), but rather to actually detect whether a tape is there (similar sensors you may find in Walkmans or other cassette decks), but since Metal type is not supported, this is not placed very accurately? While not being able to record Metal tapes, this unit should for sure be able to play them back with proper equalization in Cr position.
"Do they even make new music?"
"I think it got replaced by Minecraft."
*laughing hard intensifies*
That last part at the end with the puppets was hilarious from start to finish - well done!
"30 is the maximum volume"
Better than 11 then
"It's 19 louder."
Yea, but it doesn't sound better than 11.
It goes to 30.
UKHeliBob
I get the Spinal Tap reference 😈
The sampling rate on that (obviously) digital VU meter is just horrible. But at least the whole machine is horrible :D
The muppet segment at the end is just golden :)
I Love Audio Compact Cassette Tapes! They bring me only good memories. That's why I never stopped playing or recording them. I'm listening to an audio compact cassette tape right now I recorded last night with my friends.
Now I need diamond-coated cables kissed by the pope.
Does that add angelic fidelity?
Dunno, but I could send you some water blessed by Les Paul to sprinkle over everything. Only $1,999 for 10ml ;)
Supplied in an oxygen free plastic bottle.
@@macartm is the bottle BPA free? Personally I prefer that water to have been shipped in in hand blown glass bottles by Jimi Hendrix made with only the highest quality free range organic sand and corked by Brian May
Holier-than-thou fidelity.
“I think it was replaced...by Minecraft.” God bless Techmoan.
Unquestionably an upgrade in my opinion. ToTP was terrible.
I think the best brand new cassette deck out there right now is the Tascam CD-A580. Even though it's $400 if you want new that's the only option that comes anywhere close to the standards set when good equipment was being manufactured. It supports normal, chrome and metal but does not have dolby. BTW I just found this channel and it's spot on man!
I live in Japan. This machine is for old folks. Anyone who knows their audio will go to one of the many many many shops that sell vintage stuff, often looking like new with prices to match.
Btw, still enjoy this video but then again I'm a huge teachmoan fan.
Aurex used to be the premium line of Toshiba , this looks like an insult to the brand
A note on vocal down. In audio is center cancel. Most everything is panned even a little left or right, with the exception of the main vocals in most cases. By reversing the phase of one channel everything both left and right have in common will be phased out, aka common mode rejection. The vocal down worked, but the original recording had stereo reverb on the main vocals. This led to the dry signal being phased out, but the panned wet signals still remained as they were not identical on both left and right channels. Sorry for the nit picky comment. It’s just I’m an audio engineer and love it. I love the content. People like you who spend quality time listening to sound quality are my motivation.
Think we've finally found that device that wont be going up in price because you featured it!
That dragon machine is badass
Dan Woodward It's an extremely high end deck, that's why! Absolutely legendary amongst hifi enthusiasts!
THE DRAGON OF AUDIO!
You'd never see it in cash converters!
A guy is riping his old Depeche Mode bootleg live recordings on a Dragon. AMAZING. You can reach him there www.depechemode-live.com/wiki/Main_Page
The dragon, is ok for all non-pro audio guys...if you want a nice pro audio deck: tascam 234 (MK-II or a modified one to have the usual 1 7/8 IPS) or 322, eumig FL-1000, revox B-215, Marantz Professional Pmd-300cp, just to name a few....
My guess is that the vocal down function requires a mono vocal and stereo instruments. So, how good it works really depends on the recording.
from my experience, most vocal removal functions (even the one in the 3DS) are set up like that
(I played around with the vocal removal function on the 3DS quite a bit, and some tracks come out really weird with it turned on)
They should have tried with something like the old "Stereo Wide'' function some boomboxes had. It's a quite simple and effective electronic function that adds a bit of artificial stereo separation mixed with some EQ-mojo to make it a bit brighter as well. No pretense of "high resolution" or even "hi-fi". One example in particular comes to my mind: I have an East German RFT model SKR-601 radio cassette with that feature. On normal stereo it sounds decent, but when you switch it to "Wide"...holly hell does it sing. For an 80s plastic boombox it actually makes it sound like a bigger stereo system and it's clear as a bell too.
Same here. My parents bought a small boombox (a mid-price Chilean IRT double cassette / radio). Stereo... mmm, not bad. Wide... wow! I remember I wore a pair of headphones and put on a loved cassette tape on it. I was overjoyed.
The puppet bit is priceless.
A big reason why I subscribed to your channel is your honesty. This review is a great example. :)
I do not regard the table top unit as junk. True it is no where near the performance of a Nakamichi DRAGON or a ZX-9 (I regard the ZX-9 as better than the DRAGON). It does illustrate that the cassette format is a phenomenal medium to listen to music.
Perhaps Toshiba (Aurex) will have another go at it and make a new and improved machine.
Long live the cassette!!
Long live the cassette!!!
200 dollars for a piece of, to be blatantly honest, crap... they must be mad?! The kind that should go in the loony bin.
This type of machine would cost 40 dollars, or maybe 30 in a sale. Well, if we were back in the 90s at least.
$200? I saw it listed on Amazon for $400 and a bit. Absolutely shameless.
Joshua Noble Makes me wonder what my Sony WM-DD33 Walkman would go for, as it is in excellent condition, including a new center gear bought from Marian at Stereo2go. If I go by the logic that the better the product the more it is worth, I think new it would be 2000 dollars and second hand maybe 1200 dollars? Lmao... I know they are in the 250-300 dollar range if I remember well.
LogiForce86 piece of ahit.
I can't believe that anyone in JAPAN of all places, (The land that "gave" the world so many damned good tape recorders) would pay that much for this!
Jasper Janssen $102 in 1992 would be WORSE considering that back then $102 would have been enough for a decent tape deck.
Why is it able to play back Type II and not playback Type IV? My understanding was that for playback, Types II and IV were the same and it is only during recording that there is a difference.
The reason the "Vocal Down" button didn't function correctly is because most features like that are center cancelling, removing sound from the center of the stereo image where the vocals are usually placed. You'll notice the voice seems echoey in the video once the vocal down button is pressed, this is because that particular song had a stereo reverb on the vocals, so when you cancel the sound in the center of the stereo image all you have left is the sound of the echo.
"how many bits is hi-res then?" "oh, all of them"
Yeah 32 bits is alright I guess. 64 bits is the future! Instead of permanent hearing damage in seconds your head explodes like Scanners.
There's a saying here in Germany that goes: "Etwas auf Herz und Nieren prüfen." Which means something like: Putting it through its paces. Your unique effort is the definition of it. Pure joy.
Interesting video. I've downloaded the two example files 'standard' and 'up convert' and had a look at them in Pro Tools. There is barely any difference at all between the two versions, however the 'up convert' version does have a very slight boost in the higher frequencies. I can only just hear this difference through high quality studio monitors and so the likelihood of hearing it through the built in speakers in the Toshiba unit is zero. Both versions tail off rapidly above about 7Khz though. Not good at all.
Ouch - 7k.....
Great video as always. Definitely could hear the difference between the Nak and this thing, even on RUclips through crappy laptop speakers. As for what that "upconvert" button actually does, my guess is that it's trying to stretch the high frequencies of either compressed digital or "low res" analog tapes back up to or even above 20khz, which the standard amplitude waveform on Audacity wouldn't show. (The spectrogram view would.) But it's still trying to get blood from a stone. I would doubt it would sound any better to anyone, although these days with algorithm-based processing (if this deck is doing that), who knows. As your puppets point out, though, people our age probably wouldn't be able to hear the difference even if one exists. I know I can't hear anything over 16khz these days.
One thing I can be somewhat understanding of on this deck is the fact that it can only record on Type I tapes; as far as I know that's all that's made any more. Type I blanks are still pretty common in Japan; you can even find them in the 100 yen stores. Type II and IV tapes are unicorns, though.
The skid at the end was one of the best I've seen! Thanks
Have you ever heard of the phrase: "No highs, no lows, must be Bose"? That Toshiba Aurex's "frequency response" looks like it would be a perfect match for Bose speakers.;)
To me it sounds like the up conversion is a glorified EQ. Sounds like the mids and the highs are a tiny bit brighter and that's it really.
Sameridd Yup, that's exactly what I heard too. It really isn't worth it. And this thing isn't really cheap either.
ct92404 I wouldn't pay more than $50 for one of these. Especially since I can go down to a thriftstore and find a big metal sony/Panasonic/etc cassette player for $20 or less.
Yeah, I was about to say this. That's what I heard too. Just slightly more volume in the mid and treble
Same thoughts here. I purchased a small Sony Hi-Res Walkman and when I upscaled my CD-quality FLAC recordings, the whole song sank down: low volume, tiny sound, a certain kind of artificial brightness *and* a strange grittiness, too. Didn't like at all. Without that Hi-Res selection, my song collection sounds totally amazing to my ears, well balanced basses, crisp high-end and a smooth like silk feeling. Maybe you can call me a dumbass, but I sorely miss the Megabass option offered on old cassette Walkman.
Yes. And that's exactly how it should sound. Basically, up conversion is a marketing term for upsampling. As you know, digital audio is sampled at certain hz/second. What this button is doing is upsampling the signal that it's played, introducing some harmonic expansion. The CD standard is 44.1 kHz, when upsampled to 192 kHz, there wouldn't be any *added* spectral quality from the original source (audio), but a bigger spectrum will be perceived. This would be more evident in some mids and especially high frequencies.
As an European~Canadian I just love a very special British sense of humour !!!! Thank you so much :o)) Yo !! > Happy New Year of 2020 !!!!
All the 'vocal down' button does is invert one of the tracks and mix the two together into a mono signal. This causes destructive interference and whatever is the same on both tracks (usually the vocal, dead centre) is cancelled out. Of course this doesn't work on all material, particularly if there are echoes and pans on the vocals!
Even Toshiba didn't want to put their name on the front of this..
Aurex is Toshiba. But this case it's more like rusty soviet Lada 2101 under Rolls-Royce emblem.
Alex Schmitt More like Trabant than Lada ;-)
All it needs now is Incredi-Pull and blue gasoline.
Originally AUREX was Toshiba's brand for HiFi audio products from the mid-70's, as well as Panasonic/National/Matsushita's Technics, Mitsubishi's Diatone, Hitachi's Lo-D, Sanyo's Otto and Sharp's Optonica.
Finally, a longer muppet scene at the end. :) I'd like to see a full size episode (let's say 10 - 20 minutes) made entirely or mainly as a muppet-type show. :) You're good at it. :D
"You'll need a source"
"Like barbecue!"
God I love those puppets, always nice to wake up to a Techmoan notification.
Oh I get now LOL
Oh my god! Toshiba has gone Crosley???
The Dollar Guy I would buy that machine for a dollar!
It would be embarrassing to even want to _pay_ someone a dollar to take it away. It's not even useful as a doorstop.
I'd pay. I'll use this for remodding to normal audio standards.
Thank you so much for introducing me to that band on the CD! Brilliant songs!
I find it funny that Anders Jensen is essentially banking on being the go-to option for tech youtubers who want to test cassette audio without getting a copyright strike. Clever little marketing strategy there.
Be N S O N Hehe, yeah it wasn’t planned, but it turned out well this way. I initially just offered my music for The 8-Bit Guy and Techmoan for them to have something ok to play without worrying about copyright strikes. Now it’s a win win situation really. :)
I guess it could be said you're the MOS to his Commodore!
Could be quite a nice little niche. There is stuff out there but it's a bit hard to hunt down. A cheap, easy go-to might do quite well.
For reasons I can't fathom, the RUclips Music Library is indescribably awful. Anders Jensen is doing the world a great service by allowing us to avoid hearing it.
wondras I would say "you get what you pay for", but youtubers already are tacitly paying, by bringing more traffic to the site + retaining it. Making a better audio library seems like a pretty smart investment when you put it that way.
But hey, it's getting Anders' amazing music out there so can't complain too much.
OOF that puppet sketch in the context of spotify finally announcing hi res streaming officially for the first time today in 2021...
You really proven your opinion even when you don't like something.
That's one of the reasons I like your channel.
‘Do they even make new music? I thought it got replaced by minecraft.’ 😂
The end segment is brilliant
Laser Lens Indeed
@ 5:15, this cassette deck has a low end mechanism which was the last one they ever built, but thanks to Tascam, they brought the cassette deck back to its roots and put out a cassette deck in 2018 with a higher end mechanism.
Guess what? I have the Tascam and this radio. The cassette mechanisms are identical.
Just what a musician wants to hear after you listen to his music: “well, that was underwhelming” lol I know this is not a music review. Your music is very enjoyable Anders Jenson!
so essentially, it gives you a HF exciter and a zero-crossing clip interpolation (or whatever you'd call the equivalent when it's interpolating out of the noise floor rather than out of crossover distortion)? seems good in theory but in practice it doesn't look like it's doing very much at all. which is surprising because the technology absolutely does exist to artificially synthesize whole ranges of lost frequency space, and has for a while.
without a more in-depth analysis of the hi res upconvert i can only guess at what is actually being done but it would seem to me like they wanted to use some bit of DSP that actually did do what they are advertising, but the piddly processing power of the final box couldn't handle it, and it was scaled back.
"Vocal down" takes advantage of the fact that most vocals are center panned, while instruments are panned left and right. It's sometimes called "center channel extractor" or "karaoke mode". What it does is mixes the stereo track to mono, and inverts the waveform of one of the tracks. What's left over is literally only the difference between left and right. The reason you get that echo of the vocals is that most reverb effects function in stereo. The dry vocal track is mono but the effects are stereo to widen the sound. So when you put this karaoke mode on with most tracks you'll have that ghost of the vocal effects left over.
You can try this yourself in Audacity by splitting the stereo track, setting both tracks to mono, and applying the invert effect to one of the tracks.
Very sad that even the Japanese have stepped this low in quality.
Not just sad.... more like frightening. :(
Japan is freaking dead man. As soon as their elderly population die off the country will basically have to bootstrap themselves back into the modern world. There is a massive problem between their traditions and what you need to do in order to de-stress workers and re-populate your country.
I felt excited when I saw the box and a known brand. Then I saw the plastic, bad print of the letters etc. I was expecting an alu casing and something made with proud. I think some people would buy a fantastic machine like that even for 400 USD. I have a Panasonic radio 'boombox' with cassette and cd that was purchased in '92. It looks and probably sounds 100x better than this crap. Even the quality of the cassette mechanism is really nice. Disappointed in this new stuff is an understatement.
Simply because the majority no longer bother about sound quality!
There are so-called sound engineers who think that 256kb MP3 is hi-fi. They've probably never heard anything recorded which can reproduce 20Hz to 20kHz with less than 3dB of level variation. Even the 'best' MP3 cuts off anything outside 50Hz to 14kHz, and then throws away 90% of what's left.
Just add a cheap quality ceramic cartridge-equipped turntable to the mix and it's pretty much just another retro "does everything but not that well" sound system... :P
(Though it is 1-up on my Neostar out in the shed in that this toshiba can record to tape, not that I play them any more!!)
twocvbloke It does it all! AM/FM! Cassette! CD! Vinyl! 8 tracks! Phonograph! Laser disc! Beer cooler! George Forman grill!
That's the same image that came to my mind. I remember those enormous and stylish-looking 3-in-1 sold at the very end on the 80's. They looked gorgeous, too many switches, colorful displays and many small lights. You put your beloved cassette on and... OMG, why??? sounds flat, no high ends and no basses at all. Those big speakers didn't rock the house. Just rubbish.
Could have added a DAB tuner as well, to make all those low bit rate mono stations sound even worse than normal! 😃
Actually the new TEAC all-in-ones are not bad, though the cassette part is shite: ruclips.net/video/CQ5ctLvh5To/видео.html
Piezo cartdiges? We called them DEATH TO THE PLATE. Are they even exist in 2018?
Holy shit, retro grooves 2 is out! I've been waiting for it! My day is made! And my week, and quite likely my month!
The dragon sounded infinitely better than this plastic monstrosity 😛
Yes it had much clearer treble, it'S a real shame no one still producing high quality tape heads
Any deck with auto azimuth will trample anything without, its sad that more midrange decks didn't get this tech as no two cassettes are ever recorded the same.
Although the Dragon is a bit of a beast itself. So many buttons and knobs! It looks like a prop team grabbed hold of a regular tape deck from the golden days and shoved more buttons and knobs in every available space as a prelude to putting it in a science fiction film.
Even I could hear a very obvious difference, and I've got a bit of a tin-ear when it comes to audio quality.
Better find a bank to rob to afford one...
"Higher things are always best."
"Like cholesterol?"
Priceless!
Another fine video here. Keep up the good work Tech moan. I love learning about these gadgets.
Well, it's all down to what the average consumer wants, and for a dead format that's been revived with left over parts I'd say this thing is nice. It beats dealing with an old/used machine that's got a million or so issues.
And like it or not these machines are the future for compact casette, because in the end, that's what the majority of people remember about the format; cheap machines which weren't really that good but did their job.
What's the name of the song at 12:21?
Edit: Found it. Candy Apple Blue - Mad About You (Juno Dreams remix)
I'm gonna buy a Tamagotchi Dragon 😂
Great video as usual, Techmoan!
Great review, and I love vids that include puppetry skits. Very cool of you to run proper tests. Those graphs tell much more than YT compressed audio ever would.
This product though...wow. It can't play Type II or metal tapes, no Dolby, It's genuinely ugly, interface on the top instead of the front, wussy speakers...Jeez. This is one sad product. I don't understand why this product exists. I don't see the market for it. Maybe this started as a good idea that went too far in the design process to pull the plug on when it became clear that it wasn't feasible to make an affordable high quality tape deck in the current state of the industry...
The mid 90s JVC decks are still extremely affordable, and the high-end ones are still fantastic. In my early teens, I used to record church services as a service for shut-ins members with one, and it was a treat to use. We'd record the master on chrome with Dolby-C, and copies done on Type 1 /w Dolby-B. The copies sounded so good that only audiophiles would be able to tell it wasn't uncompressed digital. The church's sound-system probably created more hiss than the tape recording/playback added.
If those mid-90s decks ever start getting scarce and expensive, only then should anyone try to make a new decent tape deck system. And it's gotta come from a company that is large enough to eat some initial investment costs to start making proper components; that or wander across a warehouse full of new-old-stock. I find this to be pretty unlikely though. Cassette just doesn't have the same love as vinyl, and I don't think it ever will.
Love the puppets. Always makes me laugh. I wish all your videos had them, or maybe they could have their own channel. BTW, what are their names?
They are known as 'The Moans'.
Thankfully, they have their own playlist here:
ruclips.net/p/PLN2yCnHTG_6rlyYFpwUX2u0m_HVHpHO0F
Listening to the audio from the Toshiba on headphones and then through my phone's speaker, i have found out that the audio becomes more muffled when played back through the phone speaker as opposed when listening to headphones while the Nakamichi sounded the same in both cases. This means basically that the Toshiba has basically misaligned heads so the azimuth isn't right, which can also be observed on the graph. Modern boombox manufacturers just seem to simply not care about head alignment
It probably just runs the tape through a 96/24 or 192/24 AD-DA loop, which achieves nothing. I'm surprised they didn't put in a bit of treble EQ boost just to make it seem like it does something, that's what most companies do.
Lol can't say I'm suprised. Wish one of the manufacturers would release a good high-end cassette player, but that's a bit of a pipe dream.
What for? There are more decent used cassette devices than the world needs really. Having one restored by a professional repairman is still cheaper than anything new would have to cost, considering engineering and production setup.
Lassi Kinnunen $400 would be a serious lowball figure. Major HiFi companies keep a margin of about 5 to maintain profitability, so essentially for $400 you have at most $50 worth of components and workmanship to work with, and even Shenzhen assembly line girls need to be paid $5/hr... I think if somebody wanted to release a deck today comparable to the good ones of the 80ies, it would need to retail for at least a grand. There would be no buyer to sell those to.
Yup, you all are correct. I must be insane to want and decent new machine. See with a new one then I don't have to spend all that time to get either restored or repaired lol. Just buy an old one lol man, I want a NEW one that isn't crap.. like I said ha!
mipmipmipmipmip The Dolby B and C patents expired a long time ago, but you still have to pay to use the name and logo, as they are still in the audio quality business.
i paid a grand in a store back in the 80s for my akai GX-75 when it was new and when it came to the need of a new belt set, i got in there and it looked like ok-ish regarding it being made in the 80s.
When i bought the akai GX-R88 from ebay for half a grand nonworking, the tape mechanics are great (die-cast iron everywhere) while everything else (electronics and used components) is just under ok-ish with respect to its original price-tag....
If you want to buy an all new cassettedeck nowadays...you´re about to pay at least two grand....as there´s no more mid/hi-range stuff, no motors, no mechanics and no more machines to produce them....
OMG that puppet show at the end made me laugh so hard, I spit my soda out. That is by far the best puppet show ever and it about sums up the state of modern music. That puppet show is worth a million views all by its self. Go to the 23 minute mark to enjoy it. Great job techmoan.
I downloaded the samples and I can actually hear a little bit of difference on my iPhone. I will send it into my surroundsound system via AirPlay and that should tell me if it's an improvement.
Yes, there is a slight difference there is a little more high-end and the mids are a lot warmer in the up converted version. One trick people do is that they boost up the high end in a comparison and people will always choose that one. That's why I always listen to the lows and the mid's as well. The low-end has good definition in the mid range has a good spread, The app converted is slightly better. The standard version isn't really that bad either. But it's not really that much of a difference. But if these recordings were taken from the standard and the up converted outputs, then I should be hearing pretty much what you heard through the unit.
One thing that I have noticed is that my iPhone is pretty good as far as audio output, especially through airplay. I will copy these into my computer and throw them into sound Forge, which has a way of looking at the entire waveform on a graph.
Sound Forge rules! Hehe.. Using it for more than 20 years now.. best audio editor of all time i'd say. It's a shame Sonic Foundry got bought out by Sony.
The Up Convert/Normal difference is like night and day to me.
You know, like above the arctic circle when it's daylight for 24 hours all summer... 😊
Back in the day there was a swich on some deck called "loudness". Was like a pre-set equalizer that boosted low and high end, "improving quality" artificially by coloring the sound. At least they could do that on the "Up Convert" mode to "fool" the costumer a litle, but they don't even try.
Hello Techmoan - Wel I stumbled on this presentation by accident but thought your joke was very funny, and needed no explaination. I have to say I like your style and the many 'slight' comments you make, it really is a great skill - Its such a pity you had to explain ... Anyway I love these slightly satirical videos - there great work, and my many thanks -Sarah
I just found a Sony TC-FX33 in the trash, I’m going to clean it up and see if it works.
Rapisu and Hamutarou it sure is, it cleaned up nicely and it still works fine. It had a couple of problems but those apparently fixed themselves.