Its amazing how the vast majority of people have developed a passionate opinion about EVs without having ever experienced one themselves...the power of media
Have you seen the number of anti-EV clickbait RUclips channels that have popped up? Literally all they do is read terrible tabloid articles about them. There's even one who keeps buying EVs just to moan about them. It's become its own cottage industry.
Exactly, just as amazing as the vastly positive perception of those who have. I could say pretty much 100% of people I know have one never look back and wouldn't go back to ICE and yet some people insist they are a scam... Pathetic.
We have 3 EVs in my household (Model Y, Model 3, Enyaq) and I still prefer an ICE (especially diesel). We bought the EVs and installed solar panels simply to reduce our foot print from all the driving we are doing.
@@LightSaber12345 how often does someone get in the car and drive 200 miles? Clearly there are some and this is not the car for them but the vast majority drive less than 30 miles per day, which means this is perfect,
@LightSaber12345 most ICE cars never reach 400k miles. So if this is operational after 400k miles, practically perfect, still getting 200 miles of range with limited expense, there's little to complain about.
@@LightSaber12345 I'm not a very young man. I have NEVER had a gas car get me 400K miles. Heck, I've never had one get me 200K miles. The best I've ever got was 185K miles in my Mitsubishi Galant. The electrical system just died on me one day and it would have cost more to fix than it was worth. So to complain that this car only got 186.8 miles AFTER 430,000 MILES is really silly, because the only way you're getting that many miles out of your equivalent gas car is to rebuild the transmission (probably twice) and you'd be spending more money than the car is worth.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 my Toyota Prius 2012 did 300,000 in 10 years before changing the hybrid battery. Now it's on 350,000 and still doing 500 miles from a single 10 gallon tank.
If you enter a supercharger location in your tesla navigation, it will start to precondition the battery, which actually consumes energy but it makes recharging faster.
That right there, he probably lost around 10 miles due to that. Then there's the 2016 Teslas not having a heat pump issue... Still strange it cut off like that, must be something wrong with the BMS.
@@badbasic As the battery pack ages the BMS will gradually eat into the buffer range below 0%. This is in aide of keeping the range as steady as possible deeper into the cars life. Eventually leaving only a mile or two spare at this kind of milage, but likely this was also due to Rory hammering it down the motorway. The owner was likely a conservative taxi driver. Teslas do tend to estimate based on history a lot.
So around 70% of it's total range capacity left after 8 years and 430,000? Much better than expected, especially with the frequent use of the Supercharger Network. The original drive motors is the real surprise to me, those seem to go out before the batteries do.
From what I've read the original Tesla drive motors had a design flaw that caused them to fail. Weirdly, when they failed under warranty Tesla had a habit of swapping them for the same motors with the same design flaw, so you see cars with several replacement motors instead of them just doing it once with the new motor design.
Electric motors giving up the ghost? Nooo! Electric motors are nearly indestructible. They last over a decade, often two, in 24/7 use in industry! however, it is true that the motors of early Tesla Model S (earlier ones than the one of this video) had frequent problems, but that was due to a badly engineered bearing, not to the motor itself. Once that bearing problem was solved (from the 2014 model if my memory serves me well), motor failures have become a rarity.
You can't based the capacity on this test and range. It has to be done more consistently than he did it to compare against a number that was done consistently. For example, he pre-considtioned the battery by routing to the charger, which is really the reason he range took a nose dive because the car was heating the battery so it could charge at 250kW.
@@gregb7353 ... which is a sign that the guy has precious little experience with EVs... a shame for a professional car tester! BTW, while I am totally with you that the pre-conditioning of the battery ate some range, the fact that it started raining also did. There is clearly more rolling resistance when the road is wet! Temperature drop? nah! It didn't affect the battery the least bit... unless he turned the heater on... which I don't remember him saying.
Exactly what I was thinking ,I just watched a carwow electric range test and they did the same thing , switched it off and locked it ,turned it back on it was driving again
@@Tschacki_Quacki It happens to me several times a week. I drive hundreds of miles, only to have to push the car for the final one or two feet to the charger 😂
if you are running very low on electrons, do not navigate to the super charger, instead navigate to what is next to it - the pre conditioning consumes much more watts per mile, also use percent instead of miles, also use the energy app to track consumption and estimates.
@@LuciaGomez-yb3omIf it's like my model 3 it will. Sometimes I'm 70 miles away and it starts preconditioning. He had the charger set to visit the sc so it would've used significant range.
You know what I do when gas is low, I head to the gas station and fill her up. I don't have a far commute, so my 10 gallon fill up last 2 weeks. $30 to fill up, sometimes with promotions, it's less than that. Takes me less than 5 minutes and I'm back on the road.
The AC had very little to do with it. The biggest hits on range are speed (air resistance) and road resistance (wet roads add to drag). You could have made it had you slowed down even 5mph. Every 5 over 70 adds considerably to air resistance, and reduces range.
Totally agree, better off watching CarWow driving EV's until they run out of charge. All still had about 10 miles left after 0 miles showing and the Tesla had another 20
@@hasangenc2922 looked up a 2012 Model S and a Mazda 6 side by side (front, rear and profile). Dont think the similarity is extreme. Not like the front of a Model 3 (2017-2023) and a Porsche Panamera for instance. They are very similar 😅
The biggest thing here is 430,000 miles on original battery and motors! All other cars of every fuel type are looking on in embarrassment..... Come on... 430,000 miles.... Well done Tesla.
@madmcadder4536 And what were the service and maintenance costs over that time? 20k plus I reckon. A battery replacement for that tesla would be around 8k.
@@johngmls such a backwards argument. I took that into consideration and leased an ionic 6 for 2 years. Green? No. Green is driving my old cars and not getting a new one. But cost wise, I'm doing well without the gas payments and I've taken myself off the oil market which is good cuz the extractive industry nations are a sketchy bunch.
Never ever use the remaining miles display. Always show %. Also, use Tesla’s trip planner (aka built in sat nav) It’s arrival estimate is very accurate. Finally, what’s the final average consumption figure? Need it work out battery capacity (hence degradation) at end of the test. Weather, traffic all affects range, too many variable for calculating degradation.
A very respectable result for a 430000 mile battery on a less than ideal day - on the same milelage I wonder what kind of economy and performance loss would come from a comparible ICE. Certainly makes any comments about EVs being disposable look a bit silly in fact due to the lack of moving parts I reckon high mileage EVs will be more common than high mileage ICE cars.
yeah also quite high speed. And rain (probably also wind) affects range. And maybe heating, since this one doesnt have a heat pump! In NL here we can only drive 100kph max (= 60mph)
Tesla's are the fastest most fun to drive cars I've ever owned and I've owned some nice ICE vehicles in my nearly million miles of driving. I will never own ICE again and I don't worry about range even when taking long (over 500 mile) trips several times a year. I have NEVER waited for a Supercharger stall ... ever. THe whole owner experience is easy and I've never had a single service issue with 3 Tesla's in the family for the last 3 years. You can keep your head in the sand but if you ever test drive a Tesla you will understand what I'm saying.
@@davidthomas1532As is mine. And judging by the massive smiles several of my friends had on their faces when they took my car for a spin they had fun too. I drove an electric Corsa for more than 2 years before I switched to my 2024 Model 3 Long Range. As far as I'm concerned I will never go back to ICE cars and I am very happy about it. Teslas are safe, modern, mostly easy to use cars that combine tremendous power with excellent efficiency. You get a lot of room and a lot of fun and entertainment in one sleek package. Teslas aren't perfect and there are a few things they still need to improve. But especially the Model 3 and Y offer some of the best value for your money on the market that you can have - leaving even many similarly priced ICE cars in the dust. So, should you buy an EV, maybe even a Tesla? If the car suits your needs then absolutely yes. That's my one condition, regardless of engine / power type. If it suits your needs its the right car. Think before you buy. Test. Calculate. Safe driving everyone.
@@madmcadder4536I generally average 80+ on my trips (I mean trip average speed when I reach destination). Previous car a BMW 328i, and I drive exactly the same or slightly faster, take the same time on long trips. Most people's concerns are just wrong.
I thought I should mention after your comment about motorway miles, that Teslas in particular have a good reputation for being efficient on the motorway. I drove my 260,000 mile Model S down to southern Italy last October/November and at 70+ (the toll roads are usually 130kph/81mph), the range and efficiency remained very good. I note that the car you have borrowed has the same Hankook tyres that I'm using and I can highly recommend. A rated for grip and efficiency, very quiet and hard wearing. I also deliver EVs every week all over the UK and BYDs, ORAs etc also are very good on the motorway. I don't drive them at the speeds I did with the Tesla in Europe, but I have the heating/ventilation on to keep comfortable. Occasionally heavy rain and a head wind can mean you stop 20 mile earlier than planned. But in those conditions I usually need a break earlier!
Why worry about the queue/charger availability? The tesla onboard computer will tell you the availability before you even get there, and if it's full, will route you to one that has availability.
Because theyre not always correct, and then when you do find some avilable you can end up like people in California, waiting 5 hours to spent 2 more hours charging your car at a Wall Mart.
"The boot opens so there is some power." Yeah, on the 12V battery, Rory! Not the main high voltage one. You'd think a motoring journalist would know these kinds of things.
@@AutoTraderTV Speaking before thinking, happens to the best of us. Cheers! PS: Since this is a car marketplace website, would be cool to show some "competitors", as in other cars on the website in this price range and more interestingly with this mileage. Would love to see what the most expensive 430k mile car on the website looks like (on video and how it holds up, not just pictures on the website of course).
@@Afilon There aren't any with this sort of mileage. You might be able to find some with 200,000+, but approaching 500,000 is extremely rare. In general, cars really don't last this long.
@@AutoTraderTV recently my 12v died pretty prematurely (it was less than three years old) in my Model 3 while at work and I was pretty frazzled as I had troubles getting into my car and there's been a heat index of 100F-112F daily here starting at 10AM but eventually got the hood popped, so then my gf handed me the jumper cables to jump the 12v battery using her car and I a) accidentally hit both positive and negative leads on the jumpers which created sparks, and b) almost tried to plug them up to the wrong terminals, so I completely get being mentally off when stressed out. 😂 Thankfully (for me) her 2001 Volvo has broken down so many times she is used to jumping her car so she said "give me those" and grabbed the jumpers out of my hands. 🤣 She saved the day (and got a very well deserved nice dinner out of me), my brain was gone from the heat and frustrations. I know my way around cars but once you mentally lose it you start to look like an idiot very quickly.
I am really upset that motoring journalism has gone back to promoting range anxiety. I’ve owned 2 Model S since 2017, trust me , it’s not a problem anymore, your bladder runs out of room before the car runs out of electrons.
With ref to EVs and Motorways, my i4 e-drive 40 averaged 3.6 m/kWh at 70mp aver a 100 mile trip from Stoke to Nottingham and back. So with the 81kWh battery, that equates to 290 mile range, at a constant 70mph. Not that far off the WLTP of 326. Around 90% to be more accurate. I call that very good indeed. Last summer, I travelled to Anglesey and back, at a mix of speeds from 30mph to 70mph, and averaged 4 m/kWh over 260 miles. That equates to a max range of over 320 miles. To say I'm impressed with the i4, is an understatement.
Wait, EVs only last 50,000 miles and then need scrapping? Well, my 34,000 mile Ioniq 5 is only 2 years old! Oh my! And I can see no noticeable degradation,... But it won't last another year according to Joe blogs down the pub! Lordy! Why, god, why?!!!
I had an EV6 from new to 31k and when new it had a real world 280 mile range, when I handed it back that had dropped to 260, so there was some degradation. Actually the first year is when you get the most degradation. It levels out a bit afterwards.
@@TheAegisClaw out of interest is that with properly testing by running it full to empty as predictive range may have changed due to driving style? But it's true they lose most at the start and then taper off in an asymptotic manner
@@Stewiedude1 full to nearly empty, yes. Adding on the remaining 1-10 miles from the GOM. Driving style is unlikely to have changed. All my long runs were always using HDA2 at the speed limit.
@@TheAegisClaw it's relative. Were I 100% methodical, I'd probably be able to state the number of miles I've lost. There probably have been some. Very likely. But considering the usage it gets, it isn't really noticeable. I rarely charge it to full. Losing half a dozen or so miles at the top end isn't worrying me when it got 290ish out of the factory, in summer.
When you run out of charge, usually if you switch the ignition off for a minute and try it again you should get some more range out of it. This works on Renaults at least.
If you had navigation to a supercharger on like you mention around 07:50 then that would explain the seemingly sudden increased consumption. The car will be preconditioning the battery to allow maximum charge rate. Air con takes very little in comparison to drive train, especially at 70mph, probably single figures at most
7:20. The car uses more energy in the rain because it has to literally pump water out of the tyre tread. That has much more impact than the AC, wipers or lights combined. ICE cars have the same issue, but since they are so horribly inefficient you don’t notice the difference as much. After 10 years driving my model S I can tell you that there is a 10% range hit when it rains. I’m in Australia and on hot days running the AC makes very little difference. On really cold days though the heater uses power so having the temperature set high will have a bit of an impact. Early cars like this use a resistance heater - like a fan forced bar heater. Later cars use a heat pump that is 4x more efficient.
If you use the navigation it will route you to uncongested superchargers with range to spare. Also it will pre-heat the battery before you arrive for maximum charges speed.
Were you really flooring it while the car had few miles left? You caused voltage sag or something similar. I know this is done for clickbait, but dude you gotta be gentle with the accelerator when car is so low on charge. It will get more views this way though.
@@makisekurisu4674 The worst case scenario would have been to blast the A/C all the way and drive with a lead foot, but that wouldn't mean much b/c most normal people wouldn't drive like that.
@@jermainen7846 it would not happen because the car gave plenty of warnings before that the range was low. Even a modern petrol car when it goes into reserve shows a warning and asks if you want to set the course for a petrol station in the satnav. Same happens with EVs.
@@grandtourerpt Agreed. But from what I can tell from these comments. If you then say yes I want to go to a charging station, the car uses up even more energy to prepare the battery for charging. That in my book is stupid and inefficient. To be clear, a petrol car doesn't then put the driving mode in Race mode so you can get to the petrol station quicker. A non EV person doesn't know this stuff. And why would they know. Because that is just stupid.
I've found even with ICE cars that the economy significantly reduces on wet roads, you've basically got 4 big water pumps running (moving water from the road into the air) so it's not really surprising.
To be honest, the presenter totally funked up with his charging. Why try and get to a charger with zero miles left is School boy stuff. Would most ICE drivers wait until they had an estimated 3 miles left before going to a petrol station? No. So the presenters probable deliberately stupid approach was not the fault of the car. It was the fault of the driver.
That's right. Most drivers are fearful of going down so low - ice or ev. And of course that rain, as well as increasing the amount of work the tires do pushing aside the water, means increased drag through the air caused by raindrops as they cling to the vehicle. This is on top of aircon related losses. Don't worry Rory, I think you are a 1st rate reviewer and easily one of the most enjoyable and approachable to watch. 👍🦘
I once put 49.98L in a 50L petrol tank... In my defence, I had tried to refuel 40 miles earlier, but the combo of a closed motorway service station, the middle of the night so almost all local stations were closed, and a closed road that gave me a long detour put me in that situation.
@@AutoTraderTV But you floored it before getting to the Supercharger which is not normal driving behavior, so we really don't know exactly how far it would have gone if driven normally. Also, if the goal was to see how far it would go, were you going to just drive by the Supercharger with 1 mile left and continue on without charging?
Just one thing here Rory, the reason all the electronics still work is not because the High voltage battery in the floor still has charge, it’s because the 12V battery still has charge, the 12V runs all the electronics (the same as any vehicle) and the high voltage battery pack in the floor drives the motors and charges the 12v. So it probably had 1 mile of range left but stopped driving so the 12v could stay charged so you could put the car in neutral and use the other essential electronics like the screen and charge port door.
I bought one 2014 Tesla S 85, however, it had new battery (only 15k at the time of purchase) and with free supercharging for only 20k. Full options, including adjustable air suspension and Full Auto Pilot (though with the old computer it has ...)
Interesting and accurate points… I drive my TM3 about 35 miles one way to work… it uses about 16-18% of the battery… not flying, but not holding “70” either… last point… the Tesla charging network was the deciding factor in getting one… however, if all things were equal with charging stations, I would’ve got a different one (BMW, etc)… better build quality and features being the top two reasons… I will give Tesla credit for the constant updates to their software…
Great video! And great Tesla ✌🏻 Anyway... the estimated miles indicated in the dashboard are NOT affected by previous driving... it's calculated using a constant value of consumption and the kWh in the battery (presumed by the BMS).
Rather than Rory assuming/guessing/saying the the MS' estimated range is based on the previous driver's driving characteristics, from my understanding of looking at the energy charts doesn't Tesla use the last 50km (30 miles) to estimate/update its efficiency status and hence its range forecast? I don't know the answer and would like to read other's feedback on this issue. Thank you.
I still think that mileage is amazing at Motorway speeds on an 8 year old car with 430,000 miles on it. with tesla the thing is to trust the computer to tell you if you need to charge. I make sure I look for a charger now, if I drop below 20%, unless I know home is within the range. Also sharing how you put the EV into Neutral would be good education, to show that this can be done easily, when you know it is possible.
Unaccurate low battery buffer is a fairly normal downside of an ageing battery! As the cells get older, their wear tends to become different which makes it harder for the computer to estimate the soc of the battery at low and high levels.
I love how he finishes the video saying he made it to the charger with no big drama. I hope he was being sarcastic if not serious amount of apologizing for an EV. It required many Tesla-ites to help put car in neutral, and reposition car twice to reach charging cable. All that sounds pretty dramatic to me.
Depends on the type of failure, but I have heard a hissing/squeal from a leaking head gasket when the engine got up to temperature. The head gasket failed and coolant was leaking externally. I doubt that you’d hear coolant leaking into the cylinder. You might hear the sound of bent con rods briefly though if enough coolant gets into the cylinder when shut down to hydrolock it when you next start it. (I have seen that happen on old V8s).
Whether that statement was accurate or not, it's amazing to me how commenters have to pick up on the tiniest of statements in videos and try to pick them apart You have to remember that presenters are often just speaking in real time as if they are having a conversation, a lot (most probably) isn't scripted for absolute accuracy
People easily forget the fact that these are the first electric cars. The technology is still in its infancy. Imagine 20 years from now. It’s gonna be insane!
@@kevindelandrealty the hell are you talking about? Electric cars were very popular in the 1890s for several decades. 130 years ago. Get your facts right.
This guy is a great presenter. Really interesting. Gives me confidence to buy my Company Tesla when the lease is up. I’ll never reach 100k on my model 3 based on my age and usual yearly mileage (6k). It’s going to be a lot cheaper than an ICE car for me in the long run. No oil changes, timing belts, starter motor issues, gear box problems. The list of issues I’ve had over the years won’t exist. The only downside is on long trips where I wish I had 600 range for particularly long trips. These are rare but you adapt and accept it and remember all the other benefits. I’m too old to be any kind of fan boy but it’s the best car I’ve had as it’s so easy to live with.
Great videos and very informative. We have a Black 2019 model S P100 D ludicrous+ Raven 2.4 sec and we love it. This model S is a 90d which means it has a 90kWh battery which wasn't mentioned in this video?? It was mentioned in one of the other videos when the car was first collected from the owner. Knowing the battery size is important when testing it's range.
As a life long petrolhead, I view the NEW ICE cars with their stupid tiny three cylinder engines, as DISPOSABLE....! Not worth trusting beyond 50,000 miles.
Which car are you talking about ? Because the GR Yaris has a 257hp 3 cylinder. Most of the modern 3 cylinder turbo engines have much more power than the older non turbo 4 cylinders....
Emission regulations pushed them to 3 pots. Fords thing is just bad engineering and if people treat other ones right they would be fine and changing them engines are way more economical and easier than electric batteries/motors if it even gets to that point.
@edwardfletcher7790 Technically, they are wonderful. It never said they were not. I said I view these 3 cylinder ICE cars as disposable. Things that are so stressed they won't last over 50,000 miles. Of all the stupid toy 3 cylinder cars the GR Yaris is probably the best. Maybe because it's a Toyota? Maybe because it was almost never going to be made? However, it's the exception, not the rule. The usual Peugeot, Ford etc models are junk. Designed to pass emissions NOT designed for buyers to have long life, value for money. Warranties, Value for money, long life.... its gone! Like promises on the mouth of a politician.
When you drive a Tesla you always use the Navigation. Don’t try to outsmart the computer Tesla has, you will never will. People should learn that driving a Tesla is like driving an ICEV, at whatever speed and whatever HVAC setting, just use the Navigation Planner ! Tesla isn’t a Leaf !
Im sure oil and car manufacturers help spread nonsense to slow the change to ev. What if the battery gets wet, like car engines run under water with no issues. Ignore all the massive ice car recalls to complain about panel gaps, rust, and updates. The performance offered is more affordable, especially charging cheaply at home.
@@simoncanfer5030 I had a bmw and mini have a failed module due to oil seeping throught electrical lines. Every car has issues, but some like paying for issues created on purpose
We were troubleshooting an ICE John Deere Gator the other day, and it set's in, all the different things that could be going wrong with the engine. In this case, Carb, spark plug, Ignition coil, bad gas, etc... The benefits of less moving parts and not having to make fire in a perfect way, are just starting to set in for people. Not sure why he's mad at the car, tho, lol. Lot of stupid going on here.
Probably the early teslas dont have the buffer below 0%. Fundamentally you cant drive it like an ice car. You need to let up a bit if you are chewing the range faster than expected.
There is a buffer the whole thing is probably staged for some sensation in the video. Their are audible warning sounds (which we didn't hear) and visual messages on the screen (which were also not present) if the car dies to a point where you can't drive it anymore.
Well, you have to let up on any car if you run low on power. ICE cars also consume more energy above a certain speed, similar to EVs. No major difference here.
I have the same model (but a bit newer, a 2017 MS75), these "old" Model S cars have also the buffer of 4 kWh. But! It's highly recommended not to floor the car in such low SoC situations. You need to drive as smooth as possible to the next available charger. And for such a high mileage car try to avoid running the battery soooo damn low. The battery cells with the worst condition will die first and cause a stop.
Brilliant! As a matter of fact, the non performance AWD Model S with Small Drive Units are bulletproof. Just the LDUs develop a leak over time, which is fixable by changing a rotor seal.
Rain increases resistance dramatically and therefore range drops. AC also hits range. Also, once the car is scrapped, the battery is about 95% recyclable.
The miles of range indicated is based on how much electricity is in the battery and a fixed value of how much power the car is rated to consume in a mixed city/hwy style of driving. The recommended approach is to use your car's navigation system - it will continually update your estimated battery pct at your next destination based on current and expected power consumption, weather, topology, etc. This video is a good example of why it's a good idea to understand the basics of your car before going on a road trip.
Faster, quieter, spacier, better!Just done a 2100 mile roadtrip around France, Spain and Portugal in a Model Y... Piece of cake. Bypassed every other charge station on the way with only my bladder or hungry stomach forcing stops long before the car needed it.
True, but I can drop the clutch and push mine across a forecourt or take the spare outa the boot and get another 40 miles to get to a Costco where its 132.9 p/L My car cost £500 7 years ago and its still worth £500 like any old banger that starts and stops on the MOT brake test rig.
Since 2016, range has improved: I do mostly motorway miles in a 2022 model 3 Long Range. In cold and wet weather, the lowest actual range is 270 miles; in the summer months this goes up to 320 actual miles, this driving at legal speeds on motorways.
Having the a/c off during ev tests/challenges/reviews etc. is one of my favorites. Obviously a lot of those Rory's mentioned S class taxis drive their customers with no air conditioning just like in these shit little ev's. Oh wait
I've done numerous road trips in my Teslas and haven't noticed the AC being a range killer. I drove my 2023 Tesla Model Y LR from Dallas to Yellowstone, WY (3,400 miles round trip). The heat was 108+ degrees (F) from Dallas to Raton, NM (600 mi) and the temps began to cool somewhat as I drove further north. My Tesla worked perfectly in the extreme heat and I had plenty of buffer in the battery (20+ %) when I reached my destinations. Tesla's Supercharger networks and excellent navigation-based realtime battery SoC calculation let me drive with high confidence and zero range anxiety (Tesla's "secret sauce").
Poor review. This car would have been warning him miles before his “ last “ mile to charge. What was the point of this silliness. ( no response required)
I don’t know for sure with this older Tesla but I know modern Tesla start precondition the battery for fast charging when the navigation is set to a supercharger. That uses a lot of power. Also the car trunk and other electronic will still work when the car is too dead to drive because that stuff is in the 12v system. A different battery.
@@SuperMixedd it's just a long range taxi, or limousine that people use to quickly get a to b. Remember he said £240 for a trip to London. People who don't have time to take a train or aircraft. Tesloop in the US did the same thing, LA to Las Vegas I believe.
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 I don't dispute that. My point is that high mileage EVs make more sense than low mileage EVs. Forcing low mileage drivers into EVs makes no sense for the reason you just stated.
Rain affects rolling resistance of the tyres on all vehicles, so irrespective of fuel time, MPG, Watts per mile etc, will all increase when raining. Good video though, as a Tesla owner, it shows how good they are and how long the batteries really last.
no-one is running their EV down to 1 mile left, like no-one runs their ICE car down to 1 mile left either. Especially a car you know is nearly 10 years old and done 400k miles. Makes for a good youtube vid, but not realistic.
Kudos for not editing out the snafu, and showing everyone the truth. That said, my old Lexus doesn't have a tank that shows down to the mile what the remaining range is. Its a simple fuel gauge, and I just know from experience what I ROUGHLY get. I can be wrong by well over a mile at the best of times, because it's a very analogue system.
The problem is the old battery. Down the bottom end of charge some weaker cell groups go below the minimum voltage and the BMS shuts the battery down to protect the cells. Once the cells balance a bit you'd have probably got a couple more miles out of it. The battery is still usable but range accuracy at the lower states of charge takes a hit.
When I first starting driving my Tesla M3LR, I tried to have at least 20% at supercharger stops. As I got more confident, I occassionally go below 10%. The lower the charge level upon arrival, the faster the initial charge rate.
I’m reading some of these comments and honestly think they’re bots Ev drivers don’t intentionally drive their cars to a low state of charge for many reasons including the fact that it is bad for the battery’s health. I hope the reviewer discusses how bad that can be for your EV.
Currently have a Tesla Model 3 and it's definitely been pleasant to drive, especially in traffic. But I really hope the insurance rates come down. Collision insurance for Teslas and EVs are so expensive right now.
I personally think that it is more of a worry today and not so much in the future. With innovation and new technology future EV's will be more reliable when it comes to range and charging.
I think that anxiety goes away with proper planning and more ubiquitous charging networks. If only all networks were as fast and reliable as the Tesla ones...
The Model S may have consumed more energy when you entered the Supercharger location in the navigation as it would have conditioned the battery to prepare it for the Supercharger session.
We know this was staged and you are lying Rory. The car fires off multiple audible alarms when it is about to / and reaches actual 0 miles and none of that is heard in your video. You can clearly hear that in Bjorn Nyland's video where he does exactly this on a model S with no buffer left. It practically doesn't stop beeping. You also expect us to believe that the other owners were fine to push you in an awkward position where the cable barely reached and you took up 2 charging spaces? Give me a break. I honestly have no clue why you thought doing this was a good idea.
As you had the Nav set to get to the charger it would have been pre conditioning the battery which uses loads of electricity to increase the temp of the battery to allow fast charging. If you had set the destination it would have got you to a charger when needed etc.
I'm not anti EV, but they're utterly useless for long distances. I drove to Scotland at New Year and stopped for petrol at Gretna. There was a massive queue for EV charges. I reckon the back of the queue car would have been there 2 hours just to get a 50% charge. I was in an out again in less than 10 minutes. I'd have an EV but only as a 2nd car. Hopeless if they're you're only transport.
I don’t know for sure with this older Tesla but I know modern Tesla start precondition the battery for fast charging when the navigation is set to a supercharger. That uses a lot of power.
Rather than Rory assuming/guessing/saying the the MS' estimated range is based on the previous driver's driving characteristics, from my understanding of looking at the energy charts doesn't Tesla use the last 50km (30 miles) to estimate/update its efficiency status and hence its range forecast? I don't know the answer and would like to read other's feedback on this issue. Thank you.
Top Gear No.2. Try this also with normal ICE cars. Are you going to risk it finding a petrol station when the computer estimates 1mile of range ???? Get out of here man !!!
I am a proud Tesla Model 3 owner and I really don't mind this test. He probably effed up by imputing a supercharger into sat nav and lost around 10 miles on just pre heating, but that's about the only thing they did wrong. This is a pre heat pump model so it performs awful when it's cold, but what really surprised me is that it cut off like that, that is NOT normal behavior. BMS must be messed up by the driving and charging style of the owner, so it didn't know it's limits. Great to know it can happen, it's not like 430k mile ICE cars have no issues.
![Tesla Taxi FULL HEALTH CHECK: Is The Battery RUINED After 430,000 Miles? [Episode 4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/doAcNVuTnXU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Tesla Taxi FULL HEALTH CHECK: Is The Battery RUINED After 430,000 Miles? [Episode 4]](/img/tr.png)
![Are Used Electric Cars Much Worse Than New Ones? [Episode 3] | 4K](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X7Ubex4KJrs/mqdefault.jpg)
![The TRUE COST Of Fixing An Electric Car Battery | High Mileage Tesla [Episode 5]](/img/1.gif)
Its amazing how the vast majority of people have developed a passionate opinion about EVs without having ever experienced one themselves...the power of media
Have you seen the number of anti-EV clickbait RUclips channels that have popped up? Literally all they do is read terrible tabloid articles about them. There's even one who keeps buying EVs just to moan about them. It's become its own cottage industry.
Yup. A LOT of misinformed people out there. I’ll never buy another gas car again.
Spot on
Exactly, just as amazing as the vastly positive perception of those who have. I could say pretty much 100% of people I know have one never look back and wouldn't go back to ICE and yet some people insist they are a scam... Pathetic.
We have 3 EVs in my household (Model Y, Model 3, Enyaq) and I still prefer an ICE (especially diesel).
We bought the EVs and installed solar panels simply to reduce our foot print from all the driving we are doing.
That range is pretty damn good considering its a 2016 car with 430000 miles on the clock
Dead. Can't even get 200 miles. Useless
@@LightSaber12345 how often does someone get in the car and drive 200 miles? Clearly there are some and this is not the car for them but the vast majority drive less than 30 miles per day, which means this is perfect,
@LightSaber12345 most ICE cars never reach 400k miles. So if this is operational after 400k miles, practically perfect, still getting 200 miles of range with limited expense, there's little to complain about.
@@LightSaber12345
I'm not a very young man. I have NEVER had a gas car get me 400K miles. Heck, I've never had one get me 200K miles. The best I've ever got was 185K miles in my Mitsubishi Galant. The electrical system just died on me one day and it would have cost more to fix than it was worth. So to complain that this car only got 186.8 miles AFTER 430,000 MILES is really silly, because the only way you're getting that many miles out of your equivalent gas car is to rebuild the transmission (probably twice) and you'd be spending more money than the car is worth.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 my Toyota Prius 2012 did 300,000 in 10 years before changing the hybrid battery. Now it's on 350,000 and still doing 500 miles from a single 10 gallon tank.
If you enter a supercharger location in your tesla navigation, it will start to precondition the battery, which actually consumes energy but it makes recharging faster.
That right there, he probably lost around 10 miles due to that. Then there's the 2016 Teslas not having a heat pump issue... Still strange it cut off like that, must be something wrong with the BMS.
@@badbasic might be a slightly low cell or module or something.
@@badbasic og Teslas are like this these days, there's no buffer below 0 anymore
@@badbasic As the battery pack ages the BMS will gradually eat into the buffer range below 0%. This is in aide of keeping the range as steady as possible deeper into the cars life.
Eventually leaving only a mile or two spare at this kind of milage, but likely this was also due to Rory hammering it down the motorway. The owner was likely a conservative taxi driver. Teslas do tend to estimate based on history a lot.
The most likly explanation for that incedent is that he os a top gear host and its arranged as the hsve well recorded form on that.@@badbasic
Note to self. Don't floor your Tesla when it's at 1%. That move created your need to push it.
Note to self....
The AutoTrader script writers staged the whole scene so they could put that in the thumbnail of the video for clicks.
Exactly that, bait = views
That was plain old stupid ! Induce battery sag right next to the charger ! But as you say it was probably scripted!
It's interesting they never showed that "1" mile on the display. This was obviously staged, AutoTrader is BS.
Assuming that the whole "I ran out of juice" thing was real or not. Right now I don't know what to believe.
So around 70% of it's total range capacity left after 8 years and 430,000? Much better than expected, especially with the frequent use of the Supercharger Network. The original drive motors is the real surprise to me, those seem to go out before the batteries do.
The key is not to accelerate hard and the motors will last a long time. But I agree, 430,000 on one motor is unheard of.
From what I've read the original Tesla drive motors had a design flaw that caused them to fail. Weirdly, when they failed under warranty Tesla had a habit of swapping them for the same motors with the same design flaw, so you see cars with several replacement motors instead of them just doing it once with the new motor design.
Electric motors giving up the ghost? Nooo! Electric motors are nearly indestructible. They last over a decade, often two, in 24/7 use in industry!
however, it is true that the motors of early Tesla Model S (earlier ones than the one of this video) had frequent problems, but that was due to a badly engineered bearing, not to the motor itself. Once that bearing problem was solved (from the 2014 model if my memory serves me well), motor failures have become a rarity.
You can't based the capacity on this test and range. It has to be done more consistently than he did it to compare against a number that was done consistently. For example, he pre-considtioned the battery by routing to the charger, which is really the reason he range took a nose dive because the car was heating the battery so it could charge at 250kW.
@@gregb7353 ... which is a sign that the guy has precious little experience with EVs... a shame for a professional car tester!
BTW, while I am totally with you that the pre-conditioning of the battery ate some range, the fact that it started raining also did. There is clearly more rolling resistance when the road is wet! Temperature drop? nah! It didn't affect the battery the least bit... unless he turned the heater on... which I don't remember him saying.
Only the motors run off the high voltage battery, all other systems off 12v that is why it appears to still have power.
That and also the 12v is charged by the HV battery, so the 12V will eventually die too
When totally stopped.... the usual trick is lock the car and leave it for a while. Then switch on the car again.
Exactly what I was thinking ,I just watched a carwow electric range test and they did the same thing , switched it off and locked it ,turned it back on it was driving again
Nothing was stopping him from just driving further except the script for the video 😂
HELOOO IT, Did you try turning it off & on again?
@@Tschacki_Quackiexactly, this was just too obviously staged.
@@Tschacki_Quacki It happens to me several times a week. I drive hundreds of miles, only to have to push the car for the final one or two feet to the charger 😂
if you are running very low on electrons, do not navigate to the super charger, instead navigate to what is next to it - the pre conditioning consumes much more watts per mile, also use percent instead of miles, also use the energy app to track consumption and estimates.
It usually doesn't preheat if your SoC is that low.
The car won’t precondition on a low SOC
@@LuciaGomez-yb3omIf it's like my model 3 it will. Sometimes I'm 70 miles away and it starts preconditioning. He had the charger set to visit the sc so it would've used significant range.
under 20% no preconditioning anymore!
You know what I do when gas is low, I head to the gas station and fill her up. I don't have a far commute, so my 10 gallon fill up last 2 weeks. $30 to fill up, sometimes with promotions, it's less than that. Takes me less than 5 minutes and I'm back on the road.
The AC had very little to do with it. The biggest hits on range are speed (air resistance) and road resistance (wet roads add to drag). You could have made it had you slowed down even 5mph. Every 5 over 70 adds considerably to air resistance, and reduces range.
9:50 - Made for TV only. This doesn’t happen in real life, except if you go out of your way ignoring multiple warnings and reroutes from the vehicle.
Yep. Just like top gear and all the other sensational shows people eat up.
Absolutely. Your average EV skeptical Joe/Jodie are just going to feel the anxiety, when there didn't need to be any.
Totally agree, better off watching CarWow driving EV's until they run out of charge. All still had about 10 miles left after 0 miles showing and the Tesla had another 20
Yep fake!
The Model S still looks great even at 430 k.
I love the Model S design. Even the 2012 Model S makes me turn my head 😅
Why change for the sake of change? If it's not a real improvement, leave it alone.
@@tafl-9198Looks like a Mazda 6. Casuals like it, maybe.
@@hasangenc2922 looked up a 2012 Model S and a Mazda 6 side by side (front, rear and profile). Dont think the similarity is extreme. Not like the front of a Model 3 (2017-2023) and a Porsche Panamera for instance. They are very similar 😅
Lots of chips on the nose, but not bad for an "ancient" EV😂
The biggest thing here is 430,000 miles on original battery and motors!
All other cars of every fuel type are looking on in embarrassment..... Come on... 430,000 miles.... Well done Tesla.
It’s done another 9000 miles since the video was made 3 weeks ago lol
Correct,I totally forgive this car for the mileage which is on the Original battery,mind blown 👍😉💪
I know of a diesel Merc taxi that has done well over 500k miles.
@@madmcadder4536original engine?
@madmcadder4536 And what were the service and maintenance costs over that time? 20k plus I reckon. A battery replacement for that tesla would be around 8k.
And the most important thing to remember is EVs are getting better and better every year.
Facts!
Yep
They are but that means every car becomes out of date and worth less every year, far more than a ICE vehicle. It is a double edged sword.
@@johngmls 😂
@@johngmls such a backwards argument. I took that into consideration and leased an ionic 6 for 2 years. Green? No. Green is driving my old cars and not getting a new one. But cost wise, I'm doing well without the gas payments and I've taken myself off the oil market which is good cuz the extractive industry nations are a sketchy bunch.
Put this guy on top gear
He was on top gear already
Top gear is dead, no point in that
I genuinely made this comment years before he actually became a Top Gear presenter. Think his channel was Recombu cars or something.
The World has moved on from Top Gear. Get it?
It would be like coming back to a train wreck after being rescued by a hot chick in a lambo😅
I'm no Tesla or EV fan, but this can equally happen to an ICE if you ignore when the fuel tank is at "R" (Reserve supply)
Never ever use the remaining miles display. Always show %.
Also, use Tesla’s trip planner (aka built in sat nav) It’s arrival estimate is very accurate.
Finally, what’s the final average consumption figure? Need it work out battery capacity (hence degradation) at end of the test. Weather, traffic all affects range, too many variable for calculating degradation.
A very respectable result for a 430000 mile battery on a less than ideal day - on the same milelage I wonder what kind of economy and performance loss would come from a comparible ICE. Certainly makes any comments about EVs being disposable look a bit silly in fact due to the lack of moving parts I reckon high mileage EVs will be more common than high mileage ICE cars.
A sound theory. We have to wait and see how everything plays out, especially with the current generation of drive units and batteries.
yeah also quite high speed. And rain (probably also wind) affects range. And maybe heating, since this one doesnt have a heat pump! In NL here we can only drive 100kph max (= 60mph)
This is awesome to see a 8 years old Tesla with 430,000 miles driving that well on the highway. Good Job Tesla, nice review Rorry.
Rolling resistance increases on wet roads due to the water having to be pushed out of the way of the tires.
Tesla's are the fastest most fun to drive cars I've ever owned and I've owned some nice ICE vehicles in my nearly million miles of driving. I will never own ICE again and I don't worry about range even when taking long (over 500 mile) trips several times a year. I have NEVER waited for a Supercharger stall ... ever. THe whole owner experience is easy and I've never had a single service issue with 3 Tesla's in the family for the last 3 years. You can keep your head in the sand but if you ever test drive a Tesla you will understand what I'm saying.
strange I never see them going over 70 mph. I guess if you live in USA 55 mph is fine.
@@jA.78194Blanket generalisation maybe? My model 3 is fun.
@@jA.78194I love my Tesla as it is sooo fast!
@@davidthomas1532As is mine. And judging by the massive smiles several of my friends had on their faces when they took my car for a spin they had fun too.
I drove an electric Corsa for more than 2 years before I switched to my 2024 Model 3 Long Range. As far as I'm concerned I will never go back to ICE cars and I am very happy about it.
Teslas are safe, modern, mostly easy to use cars that combine tremendous power with excellent efficiency. You get a lot of room and a lot of fun and entertainment in one sleek package.
Teslas aren't perfect and there are a few things they still need to improve. But especially the Model 3 and Y offer some of the best value for your money on the market that you can have - leaving even many similarly priced ICE cars in the dust.
So, should you buy an EV, maybe even a Tesla?
If the car suits your needs then absolutely yes. That's my one condition, regardless of engine / power type.
If it suits your needs its the right car. Think before you buy. Test. Calculate.
Safe driving everyone.
@@madmcadder4536I generally average 80+ on my trips (I mean trip average speed when I reach destination). Previous car a BMW 328i, and I drive exactly the same or slightly faster, take the same time on long trips. Most people's concerns are just wrong.
I thought I should mention after your comment about motorway miles, that Teslas in particular have a good reputation for being efficient on the motorway. I drove my 260,000 mile Model S down to southern Italy last October/November and at 70+ (the toll roads are usually 130kph/81mph), the range and efficiency remained very good. I note that the car you have borrowed has the same Hankook tyres that I'm using and I can highly recommend. A rated for grip and efficiency, very quiet and hard wearing. I also deliver EVs every week all over the UK and BYDs, ORAs etc also are very good on the motorway. I don't drive them at the speeds I did with the Tesla in Europe, but I have the heating/ventilation on to keep comfortable. Occasionally heavy rain and a head wind can mean you stop 20 mile earlier than planned. But in those conditions I usually need a break earlier!
@dougowt I'm considering buying a s and is that right you get free charging from tesla even if your the second owner for example?
Why worry about the queue/charger availability? The tesla onboard computer will tell you the availability before you even get there, and if it's full, will route you to one that has availability.
Because theyre not always correct, and then when you do find some avilable you can end up like people in California, waiting 5 hours to spent 2 more hours charging your car at a Wall Mart.
"The boot opens so there is some power." Yeah, on the 12V battery, Rory! Not the main high voltage one. You'd think a motoring journalist would know these kinds of things.
I did know this, but it was a pretty stressful situation and I didn’t express myself correctly 🤭
@@AutoTraderTV Speaking before thinking, happens to the best of us. Cheers!
PS: Since this is a car marketplace website, would be cool to show some "competitors", as in other cars on the website in this price range and more interestingly with this mileage. Would love to see what the most expensive 430k mile car on the website looks like (on video and how it holds up, not just pictures on the website of course).
@@Afilon There aren't any with this sort of mileage. You might be able to find some with 200,000+, but approaching 500,000 is extremely rare. In general, cars really don't last this long.
@@AutoTraderTV That says something about this car!
@@AutoTraderTV recently my 12v died pretty prematurely (it was less than three years old) in my Model 3 while at work and I was pretty frazzled as I had troubles getting into my car and there's been a heat index of 100F-112F daily here starting at 10AM but eventually got the hood popped, so then my gf handed me the jumper cables to jump the 12v battery using her car and I a) accidentally hit both positive and negative leads on the jumpers which created sparks, and b) almost tried to plug them up to the wrong terminals, so I completely get being mentally off when stressed out. 😂 Thankfully (for me) her 2001 Volvo has broken down so many times she is used to jumping her car so she said "give me those" and grabbed the jumpers out of my hands. 🤣 She saved the day (and got a very well deserved nice dinner out of me), my brain was gone from the heat and frustrations. I know my way around cars but once you mentally lose it you start to look like an idiot very quickly.
I am really upset that motoring journalism has gone back to promoting range anxiety. I’ve owned 2 Model S since 2017, trust me , it’s not a problem anymore, your bladder runs out of room before the car runs out of electrons.
Agreed here. Done 1000mile drives in 16 hours easy and bladder is the limit … or coffee ☕️
With ref to EVs and Motorways, my i4 e-drive 40 averaged 3.6 m/kWh at 70mp aver a 100 mile trip from Stoke to Nottingham and back. So with the 81kWh battery, that equates to 290 mile range, at a constant 70mph. Not that far off the WLTP of 326. Around 90% to be more accurate. I call that very good indeed.
Last summer, I travelled to Anglesey and back, at a mix of speeds from 30mph to 70mph, and averaged 4 m/kWh over 260 miles. That equates to a max range of over 320 miles.
To say I'm impressed with the i4, is an understatement.
I get much the same range with my RWD Kia EV6. Which has a WLTP of 328.
You’ve might have triggered battery conditioning by navigating to a suc which draws about 5kw.
Wait, EVs only last 50,000 miles and then need scrapping?
Well, my 34,000 mile Ioniq 5 is only 2 years old! Oh my! And I can see no noticeable degradation,... But it won't last another year according to Joe blogs down the pub!
Lordy!
Why, god, why?!!!
I had an EV6 from new to 31k and when new it had a real world 280 mile range, when I handed it back that had dropped to 260, so there was some degradation. Actually the first year is when you get the most degradation. It levels out a bit afterwards.
@@TheAegisClaw out of interest is that with properly testing by running it full to empty as predictive range may have changed due to driving style?
But it's true they lose most at the start and then taper off in an asymptotic manner
@@Stewiedude1 full to nearly empty, yes. Adding on the remaining 1-10 miles from the GOM. Driving style is unlikely to have changed. All my long runs were always using HDA2 at the speed limit.
@@TheAegisClaw it's relative. Were I 100% methodical, I'd probably be able to state the number of miles I've lost. There probably have been some. Very likely.
But considering the usage it gets, it isn't really noticeable. I rarely charge it to full. Losing half a dozen or so miles at the top end isn't worrying me when it got 290ish out of the factory, in summer.
50,000 miles? I've seen people claim it's every 5 year or even less! Total nonsense of course
When you run out of charge, usually if you switch the ignition off for a minute and try it again you should get some more range out of it. This works on Renaults at least.
If you had navigation to a supercharger on like you mention around 07:50 then that would explain the seemingly sudden increased consumption. The car will be preconditioning the battery to allow maximum charge rate.
Air con takes very little in comparison to drive train, especially at 70mph, probably single figures at most
7:20. The car uses more energy in the rain because it has to literally pump water out of the tyre tread. That has much more impact than the AC, wipers or lights combined. ICE cars have the same issue, but since they are so horribly inefficient you don’t notice the difference as much. After 10 years driving my model S I can tell you that there is a 10% range hit when it rains. I’m in Australia and on hot days running the AC makes very little difference. On really cold days though the heater uses power so having the temperature set high will have a bit of an impact. Early cars like this use a resistance heater - like a fan forced bar heater. Later cars use a heat pump that is 4x more efficient.
I been checking the channel all week waiting for this EP.2 to drop!!! Ayyyyeeee let’s goooo!
If you use the navigation it will route you to uncongested superchargers with range to spare. Also it will pre-heat the battery before you arrive for maximum charges speed.
Were you really flooring it while the car had few miles left? You caused voltage sag or something similar. I know this is done for clickbait, but dude you gotta be gentle with the accelerator when car is so low on charge. It will get more views this way though.
He's trying the worst case scenario..lol
I know he had a Nissan Leaf. But a non EV driver wouldn't know all these tricks. Imagine he was on the motorway and this happened
@@makisekurisu4674 The worst case scenario would have been to blast the A/C all the way and drive with a lead foot, but that wouldn't mean much b/c most normal people wouldn't drive like that.
@@jermainen7846 it would not happen because the car gave plenty of warnings before that the range was low. Even a modern petrol car when it goes into reserve shows a warning and asks if you want to set the course for a petrol station in the satnav. Same happens with EVs.
@@grandtourerpt Agreed. But from what I can tell from these comments. If you then say yes I want to go to a charging station, the car uses up even more energy to prepare the battery for charging. That in my book is stupid and inefficient. To be clear, a petrol car doesn't then put the driving mode in Race mode so you can get to the petrol station quicker. A non EV person doesn't know this stuff. And why would they know. Because that is just stupid.
I've found even with ICE cars that the economy significantly reduces on wet roads, you've basically got 4 big water pumps running (moving water from the road into the air) so it's not really surprising.
To be honest, the presenter totally funked up with his charging. Why try and get to a charger with zero miles left is School boy stuff. Would most ICE drivers wait until they had an estimated 3 miles left before going to a petrol station? No. So the presenters probable deliberately stupid approach was not the fault of the car. It was the fault of the driver.
My thoughts exactly
But now we know exactly how far it’ll go, which was the precise objective.
That's right. Most drivers are fearful of going down so low - ice or ev. And of course that rain, as well as increasing the amount of work the tires do pushing aside the water, means increased drag through the air caused by raindrops as they cling to the vehicle. This is on top of aircon related losses. Don't worry Rory, I think you are a 1st rate reviewer and easily one of the most enjoyable and approachable to watch. 👍🦘
I once put 49.98L in a 50L petrol tank...
In my defence, I had tried to refuel 40 miles earlier, but the combo of a closed motorway service station, the middle of the night so almost all local stations were closed, and a closed road that gave me a long detour put me in that situation.
@@AutoTraderTV But you floored it before getting to the Supercharger which is not normal driving behavior, so we really don't know exactly how far it would have gone if driven normally.
Also, if the goal was to see how far it would go, were you going to just drive by the Supercharger with 1 mile left and continue on without charging?
As no doubt many have already said, navigating to a supercharger will have activated battery conditioning. Decreasing your efficiency.
Other cars don't precondition if the battery is low. Are you saying tesla doesn't have this obvious step?
Teslas do not use past driving to estimate range. It's not a guess--o-meter system. Enjoying the series.
Amazing how many people get this wrong 😑
Just one thing here Rory, the reason all the electronics still work is not because the High voltage battery in the floor still has charge, it’s because the 12V battery still has charge, the 12V runs all the electronics (the same as any vehicle) and the high voltage battery pack in the floor drives the motors and charges the 12v. So it probably had 1 mile of range left but stopped driving so the 12v could stay charged so you could put the car in neutral and use the other essential electronics like the screen and charge port door.
I bought one 2014 Tesla S 85, however, it had new battery (only 15k at the time of purchase) and with free supercharging for only 20k. Full options, including adjustable air suspension and Full Auto Pilot (though with the old computer it has ...)
I couldn't be going through all that grief half wondering if ill get there. A good real life test.
Thank you for sharing, Rory! I appreciate it. I'm actually considering getting an older Tesla Model S myself.
The rain doesn't affect the battery, it creates extra rolling resistance and therefore consumption increases.
Typing in a supercharger location, the battery begins to preheat (which eats range...)
Yes unless soc won't make it
Interesting and accurate points… I drive my TM3 about 35 miles one way to work… it uses about 16-18% of the battery… not flying, but not holding “70” either… last point… the Tesla charging network was the deciding factor in getting one… however, if all things were equal with charging stations, I would’ve got a different one (BMW, etc)… better build quality and features being the top two reasons… I will give Tesla credit for the constant updates to their software…
Haven't Tesla opened up the chargers to other brands now?
UK?
@@the_lost_navigator7266 yes worldwide uts opened
Great video! And great Tesla ✌🏻
Anyway... the estimated miles indicated in the dashboard are NOT affected by previous driving... it's calculated using a constant value of consumption and the kWh in the battery (presumed by the BMS).
Rather than Rory assuming/guessing/saying the the MS' estimated range is based on the previous driver's driving characteristics, from my understanding of looking at the energy charts doesn't Tesla use the last 50km (30 miles) to estimate/update its efficiency status and hence its range forecast? I don't know the answer and would like to read other's feedback on this issue. Thank you.
@tooflesstesla the energy chart does what you say, but it's independent from the range display on the dashboard.
I still think that mileage is amazing at Motorway speeds on an 8 year old car with 430,000 miles on it. with tesla the thing is to trust the computer to tell you if you need to charge. I make sure I look for a charger now, if I drop below 20%, unless I know home is within the range.
Also sharing how you put the EV into Neutral would be good education, to show that this can be done easily, when you know it is possible.
Unaccurate low battery buffer is a fairly normal downside of an ageing battery! As the cells get older, their wear tends to become different which makes it harder for the computer to estimate the soc of the battery at low and high levels.
My old laptop cuts out at 6% power when it used to hold at 0% for a few minutes
I love how he finishes the video saying he made it to the charger with no big drama. I hope he was being sarcastic if not serious amount of apologizing for an EV. It required many Tesla-ites to help put car in neutral, and reposition car twice to reach charging cable. All that sounds pretty dramatic to me.
you can hear when a head gasket is about to go??? 😂😂😂
He had them special Tesla augmented ears
Followed quickly by the white steam from the exhaust pipe, also a dead giveaway!
Depends on the type of failure, but I have heard a hissing/squeal from a leaking head gasket when the engine got up to temperature. The head gasket failed and coolant was leaking externally. I doubt that you’d hear coolant leaking into the cylinder. You might hear the sound of bent con rods briefly though if enough coolant gets into the cylinder when shut down to hydrolock it when you next start it. (I have seen that happen on old V8s).
Whether that statement was accurate or not, it's amazing to me how commenters have to pick up on the tiniest of statements in videos and try to pick them apart
You have to remember that presenters are often just speaking in real time as if they are having a conversation, a lot (most probably) isn't scripted for absolute accuracy
Its the 'Elon needs good press' ears.
Just ball parking it here using current supercharging costs/4 miles-kwh..that is $37000 in free supercharging over 430k miles.
People easily forget the fact that these are the first electric cars. The technology is still in its infancy. Imagine 20 years from now. It’s gonna be insane!
@@kevindelandrealty the hell are you talking about? Electric cars were very popular in the 1890s for several decades. 130 years ago. Get your facts right.
This guy is a great presenter. Really interesting. Gives me confidence to buy my Company Tesla when the lease is up. I’ll never reach 100k on my model 3 based on my age and usual yearly mileage (6k). It’s going to be a lot cheaper than an ICE car for me in the long run. No oil changes, timing belts, starter motor issues, gear box problems. The list of issues I’ve had over the years won’t exist. The only downside is on long trips where I wish I had 600 range for particularly long trips. These are rare but you adapt and accept it and remember all the other benefits. I’m too old to be any kind of fan boy but it’s the best car I’ve had as it’s so easy to live with.
Next time use the trip planner.
Next time using his brain might be useful.
Great videos and very informative. We have a Black 2019 model S P100 D ludicrous+ Raven 2.4 sec and we love it. This model S is a 90d which means it has a 90kWh battery which wasn't mentioned in this video?? It was mentioned in one of the other videos when the car was first collected from the owner. Knowing the battery size is important when testing it's range.
As a life long petrolhead, I view the NEW ICE cars with their stupid tiny three cylinder engines, as DISPOSABLE....! Not worth trusting beyond 50,000 miles.
Spot on, Ford and their wet belt system… that’s their way of encouraging the transition to BEV it seems 😅
Which car are you talking about ?
Because the GR Yaris has a 257hp 3 cylinder.
Most of the modern 3 cylinder turbo engines have much more power than the older non turbo 4 cylinders....
I have a VW Up! which has 3 cylinders and it is still going strong with more than 50k on the clock. You really don't know what you are talking about.
Emission regulations pushed them to 3 pots. Fords thing is just bad engineering and if people treat other ones right they would be fine and changing them engines are way more economical and easier than electric batteries/motors if it even gets to that point.
@edwardfletcher7790 Technically, they are wonderful.
It never said they were not. I said I view these 3 cylinder ICE cars as disposable. Things that are so stressed they won't last over 50,000 miles. Of all the stupid toy 3 cylinder cars the GR Yaris is probably the best. Maybe because it's a Toyota? Maybe because it was almost never going to be made? However, it's the exception, not the rule. The usual Peugeot, Ford etc models are junk. Designed to pass emissions NOT designed for buyers to have long life, value for money. Warranties, Value for money, long life.... its gone! Like promises on the mouth of a politician.
When you drive a Tesla you always use the Navigation. Don’t try to outsmart the computer Tesla has, you will never will. People should learn that driving a Tesla is like driving an ICEV, at whatever speed and whatever HVAC setting, just use the Navigation Planner ! Tesla isn’t a Leaf !
What you speak are facts...but world never understands
"no big dramas..." with 3 kids in the back and a hot summer day that would be fun :)
Yeah, though the car itself is the least of your worries here 😊
Having 1 mile of range on any type of vehicle doesn't mean you have a mile left. I wouldn't trust any car computer to be that dead on accurate.
Im sure oil and car manufacturers help spread nonsense to slow the change to ev. What if the battery gets wet, like car engines run under water with no issues. Ignore all the massive ice car recalls to complain about panel gaps, rust, and updates. The performance offered is more affordable, especially charging cheaply at home.
True, but I had a Model S battery replacement because of water ingress!
@@simoncanfer5030 I had a bmw and mini have a failed module due to oil seeping throught electrical lines. Every car has issues, but some like paying for issues created on purpose
Don't forget those pesky sharks.
We were troubleshooting an ICE John Deere Gator the other day, and it set's in, all the different things that could be going wrong with the engine. In this case, Carb, spark plug, Ignition coil, bad gas, etc... The benefits of less moving parts and not having to make fire in a perfect way, are just starting to set in for people. Not sure why he's mad at the car, tho, lol. Lot of stupid going on here.
Nobody runs their EV to its last mile before charging…
There as a warning on the screen and i think it was saying “Battery Needs Servicing”
Probably the early teslas dont have the buffer below 0%.
Fundamentally you cant drive it like an ice car. You need to let up a bit if you are chewing the range faster than expected.
I generally never go below 10% for this reason
There is a buffer the whole thing is probably staged for some sensation in the video.
Their are audible warning sounds (which we didn't hear) and visual messages on the screen (which were also not present) if the car dies to a point where you can't drive it anymore.
I've rolled into superchargers on 0 or 1 percent once or twice without the car dying.. i have a 2017 MS75D they definitely have a buffer
Well, you have to let up on any car if you run low on power.
ICE cars also consume more energy above a certain speed, similar to EVs.
No major difference here.
I have the same model (but a bit newer, a 2017 MS75), these "old" Model S cars have also the buffer of 4 kWh. But! It's highly recommended not to floor the car in such low SoC situations. You need to drive as smooth as possible to the next available charger. And for such a high mileage car try to avoid running the battery soooo damn low. The battery cells with the worst condition will die first and cause a stop.
Brilliant!
As a matter of fact, the non performance AWD Model S with Small Drive Units are bulletproof. Just the LDUs develop a leak over time, which is fixable by changing a rotor seal.
Rain increases resistance dramatically and therefore range drops. AC also hits range.
Also, once the car is scrapped, the battery is about 95% recyclable.
The miles of range indicated is based on how much electricity is in the battery and a fixed value of how much power the car is rated to consume in a mixed city/hwy style of driving. The recommended approach is to use your car's navigation system - it will continually update your estimated battery pct at your next destination based on current and expected power consumption, weather, topology, etc. This video is a good example of why it's a good idea to understand the basics of your car before going on a road trip.
Definition of range anxiety right here LOL.. 1 mile left.
It's staged.
@@FrostyAUTAh, suddenly
Faster, quieter, spacier, better!Just done a 2100 mile roadtrip around France, Spain and Portugal in a Model Y... Piece of cake. Bypassed every other charge station on the way with only my bladder or hungry stomach forcing stops long before the car needed it.
Weather wouldn't have affected a newer one with a heat pump as much 😀
That's enough range for most everyday use, they're definitely worth looking at these used EV's
10:05 12v has it's own battery
Here's a revelation for you...ICE cars run out of energy too if you don't top it up. Amazing!
True, but I can drop the clutch and push mine across a forecourt or take the spare outa the boot and get another 40 miles to get to a Costco where its 132.9 p/L
My car cost £500 7 years ago and its still worth £500 like any old banger that starts and stops on the MOT brake test rig.
I suspect a manufactured crisis for dramatic effect. Good entertainment but what EV owner actually does that?
I love that you guys didn't stop at just interviewing the guy and actually properly tested it. Great work, great idea. love it ❤
😂 no big drammas... like reaallly, how can you not like this channel...jus awesome, nice1
Since 2016, range has improved: I do mostly motorway miles in a 2022 model 3 Long Range. In cold and wet weather, the lowest actual range is 270 miles; in the summer months this goes up to 320 actual miles, this driving at legal speeds on motorways.
Is that how you normally drive an ICE car or are you just doing it because you’re in an EV?
Having the a/c off during ev tests/challenges/reviews etc. is one of my favorites. Obviously a lot of those Rory's mentioned S class taxis drive their customers with no air conditioning just like in these shit little ev's. Oh wait
@@KL_Stereois it your bedtime yet?
I've done numerous road trips in my Teslas and haven't noticed the AC being a range killer. I drove my 2023 Tesla Model Y LR from Dallas to Yellowstone, WY (3,400 miles round trip). The heat was 108+ degrees (F) from Dallas to Raton, NM (600 mi) and the temps began to cool somewhat as I drove further north. My Tesla worked perfectly in the extreme heat and I had plenty of buffer in the battery (20+ %) when I reached my destinations. Tesla's Supercharger networks and excellent navigation-based realtime battery SoC calculation let me drive with high confidence and zero range anxiety (Tesla's "secret sauce").
You 2023 uses a new hvac system that much more efficient than the older ones. Watch Munro and associates videos if you watch to see the details.
Poor review. This car would have been warning him miles before his “ last “ mile to charge. What was the point of this silliness. ( no response required)
To test the maximum range, mostly.
I don’t know for sure with this older Tesla but I know modern Tesla start precondition the battery for fast charging when the navigation is set to a supercharger. That uses a lot of power. Also the car trunk and other electronic will still work when the car is too dead to drive because that stuff is in the 12v system. A different battery.
430000 miles in 8 years... 53750 miles a year... 147 miles a DAY (on average) for 8 years straight
Or: 8600 gallons of diesel not burned.
That's good use of a big battery.
yes that's kinda shady i agree
@@SuperMixedd it's just a long range taxi, or limousine that people use to quickly get a to b. Remember he said £240 for a trip to London. People who don't have time to take a train or aircraft.
Tesloop in the US did the same thing, LA to Las Vegas I believe.
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 I don't dispute that. My point is that high mileage EVs make more sense than low mileage EVs. Forcing low mileage drivers into EVs makes no sense for the reason you just stated.
Rain affects rolling resistance of the tyres on all vehicles, so irrespective of fuel time, MPG, Watts per mile etc, will all increase when raining. Good video though, as a Tesla owner, it shows how good they are and how long the batteries really last.
Driving a car down this low is not normal, please don’t do this.
2013 has 182,000 miles now. I drive 104 miles a day to work. It’s been an amazing car. Starting to document this on my channel.
no-one is running their EV down to 1 mile left, like no-one runs their ICE car down to 1 mile left either. Especially a car you know is nearly 10 years old and done 400k miles. Makes for a good youtube vid, but not realistic.
My 3 yr old, 300 mile range Kona has been as low as 19 miles at 6%, that's enough for me.
@@stulop I got my id3 down to 1% and one mile once. Fortunately that coincided with my rival at a charging station.
Kudos for not editing out the snafu, and showing everyone the truth.
That said, my old Lexus doesn't have a tank that shows down to the mile what the remaining range is. Its a simple fuel gauge, and I just know from experience what I ROUGHLY get. I can be wrong by well over a mile at the best of times, because it's a very analogue system.
62 miles: "64 miles"
149 miles: "146 miles"
Tickled me
The problem is the old battery. Down the bottom end of charge some weaker cell groups go below the minimum voltage and the BMS shuts the battery down to protect the cells. Once the cells balance a bit you'd have probably got a couple more miles out of it. The battery is still usable but range accuracy at the lower states of charge takes a hit.
EVs don’t work like that. No one drives to zero. In fact no one who owns an ev dives to less than 10 percent. This isn’t a gas car
When I first starting driving my Tesla M3LR, I tried to have at least 20% at supercharger stops. As I got more confident, I occassionally go below 10%. The lower the charge level upon arrival, the faster the initial charge rate.
I have driven my Polestar to 3% a couple of times.
Teslas do work like that.
I’m reading some of these comments and honestly think they’re bots
Ev drivers don’t intentionally drive their cars to a low state of charge for many reasons including the fact that it is bad for the battery’s health.
I hope the reviewer discusses how bad that can be for your EV.
Currently have a Tesla Model 3 and it's definitely been pleasant to drive, especially in traffic. But I really hope the insurance rates come down. Collision insurance for Teslas and EVs are so expensive right now.
Unfortunately range anxiety will always be the downside of EV’s
Experience and planning dispels range anxiety
@user-lb6ei3yi9s You are absolutely right, but unfortunately. Like regular cars Ev's Are going to lose range over time
I personally think that it is more of a worry today and not so much in the future. With innovation and new technology future EV's will be more reliable when it comes to range and charging.
I think that anxiety goes away with proper planning and more ubiquitous charging networks. If only all networks were as fast and reliable as the Tesla ones...
Range anxiety only exists for non ev owners.
The Model S may have consumed more energy when you entered the Supercharger location in the navigation as it would have conditioned the battery to prepare it for the Supercharger session.
We know this was staged and you are lying Rory. The car fires off multiple audible alarms when it is about to / and reaches actual 0 miles and none of that is heard in your video. You can clearly hear that in Bjorn Nyland's video where he does exactly this on a model S with no buffer left. It practically doesn't stop beeping.
You also expect us to believe that the other owners were fine to push you in an awkward position where the cable barely reached and you took up 2 charging spaces?
Give me a break.
I honestly have no clue why you thought doing this was a good idea.
As you had the Nav set to get to the charger it would have been pre conditioning the battery which uses loads of electricity to increase the temp of the battery to allow fast charging. If you had set the destination it would have got you to a charger when needed etc.
I'm not anti EV, but they're utterly useless for long distances. I drove to Scotland at New Year and stopped for petrol at Gretna.
There was a massive queue for EV charges. I reckon the back of the queue car would have been there 2 hours just to get a 50% charge. I was in an out again in less than 10 minutes. I'd have an EV but only as a 2nd car. Hopeless if they're you're only transport.
Did Inverness to the Cotswolds in 9 hours, One 5 min stop dread to think what a EV journey would have taken with dodgy chargers ques and poor weather.
@@-DC- how many stops did you take and roughly how long was each?
Seriously? This car has been driven 430,000 miles in 8 years as a taxi. No problems.
This car charges at half the rate of newer teslas and has 100 miles less range.
I don’t know for sure with this older Tesla but I know modern Tesla start precondition the battery for fast charging when the navigation is set to a supercharger. That uses a lot of power.
There's this newfangled stuff called petrol, which completely removes range anxiety. It could catch on.
Have you seen the prices and price volatility of that “new” stuff!? No thanks, top tip, charge before you get too low, especially in an old EV.
Rather than Rory assuming/guessing/saying the the MS' estimated range is based on the previous driver's driving characteristics, from my understanding of looking at the energy charts doesn't Tesla use the last 50km (30 miles) to estimate/update its efficiency status and hence its range forecast? I don't know the answer and would like to read other's feedback on this issue. Thank you.
Top Gear No.2. Try this also with normal ICE cars. Are you going to risk it finding a petrol station when the computer estimates 1mile of range ???? Get out of here man !!!
I am a proud Tesla Model 3 owner and I really don't mind this test. He probably effed up by imputing a supercharger into sat nav and lost around 10 miles on just pre heating, but that's about the only thing they did wrong. This is a pre heat pump model so it performs awful when it's cold, but what really surprised me is that it cut off like that, that is NOT normal behavior. BMS must be messed up by the driving and charging style of the owner, so it didn't know it's limits. Great to know it can happen, it's not like 430k mile ICE cars have no issues.
I wonder what the MPG for a 430k mile ICE car is, and how well they compare