Enters room, _immediately_ chucks a spear at the first person they see, then declares extra-judicial global hegemony. These are Disney's advanced, enlightened, anti-colonial heroes.
Someone in the writers room thought this was probably pretty clever. "Don't you see? They're just like America!" They probably also thought it was clever to show how Johnny Walker was the kind of America the rest of the world sees, blood on the shield and everything.
“The dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever they find themselves to be” The whole point of the sokovia accords that their former king supported is that superheroes shouldn’t have jurisdiction wherever they happen to be
@@thanatosdriver1938it's even funnier when you realize their King willingly relinquished jurisdiction over the criminal they are trying to take to begin with when he surrendered him to the German government.
@@NICK41206 Manifest destiny was more of a "We already got a third of this, why not just send it all the way?" This is just one nation directly undermining the authority and laws of another.
They are going to clown on Walker in the Thunderbolts even more. Imagine being so politically brain-rotten that you accidentally write a good character and think he sucks.
It's incredible how much that happens with terrible writers. Something similar happened in season 7 of RWBY with Ironwood, they made made him a complex character that you were supposed to hate despite the "heroes" screwing him over at every turn, then next season, have him randomly shoot a civilian for no reason because too many people were on his side during season 7.
@@Bogglemanifyhe got some of the worst character assassination I have ever seen. Originally introduced as a competent leader of his soldiers who was willing to personally put his life on the frontlines when push came to shove, only to become a wannabe dictator with no intelligence when we see him again.
That’s because the cowards and ‘Whiney Grifters of Amerika’ (WGA) despises and hates soldiers and warriors, because our courage is a constant reminder of how disgustingly mediocre and inadequate these brutes, hacks and vandals truly are.
@@TheArmyOfOne100 the most offensive part to me was they fought him because of his plan which was reasonable and then they had the audacity to do the same plan literally the start of next season and it was like a slap in the face.
@@Bogglemanify And then the writers handwave it with "Oh, he actually has a completely unmentioned superpower that gives him turbo autism in important moments that makes him unable to look further than his current objective" whichm aside from being pulled out of their ass, now makes him even more of a victim because he has something that puts his own agency into question and he can't turn off.
I wrote a college essay to prove that John Walker was legally innocent. If you look at it objectively, he was attacked by terrorists, one of them retreats to gain an advantage, John chases him down, the terrorist proves he’s a threat by throwing concrete with lethal force, even when pinned he’s a lethal weapon, so John quickly and effectively eliminates the threat. I got an A.
Awesome, and yeah, let's not forget the prior encounters he had already had with this specific group. First was in the truck where he stopped them from killing Sam Wilson. Then later on in the church where he peacefully was attempting to arrest Karlie. Not bringing his shield up or anything. Only peacefully telling her she's under arrest only to immediately get attacked by her so she can escape. Then the next encounter with them was the kidnapping of lemar that resulted in his death on top of all the soldiers this specific group of people had killed already(with bombing that building). Granted, yes, for PR reasons, he would have to turn in the shield, but never be publicly disgraced as much as the show made it out to be
Remember in the first Blacl Panther movie when one of the Wakandan tribes literally made monkey noises when they got mad? How tf was that supposed to be empowering exactly?
In the first cap movie, in the propaganda video shown to an audience, he's using a machine gun on enemies in the foreground. In war montage, he throws a bag of grenades into the hatch of a super tank. In a different scene, when he breaks into a Fort with his team, he covers his face with the shild while firing a pistol in front of him. Cap killed plenty of people! He didn't wince at any time. He did what he had to, and it was all on record in universe. He probably wouldn't want to do that after the war, but people definitely know he has killed before
Hell, even Falcon has killed people by the sheer fact before he became Falcon he was a member of the special forces in the US military. Those guys don’t just sit around making arts and crafts, when they get deployed someone is dying.
"I don't _want_ to kill anybody. But I don't like bullies; I don't care where they come from." Literally Captain America's character; his entire moral compass; distilled into a single line of dialogue.
Yeah...idk about this one I agree that Walker was mostly a good guy, but idk if he should have killed the cringe terrorist man. Bro was already on the ground, he didn't have a weapon, Walker clearly had him subdued, and yet he opted to kill him in front of a tone of people. Not a very good look for Captain America. If his reason for killing him was to protect more people I could buy it...but in this case, it just seems hard to justify I DO want to hear another perspective on this tho so please let me know where I might be wrong on this Edit: My mind has been changed on this, thanks to all who responded & helped me understand John Walker is a gigachad! 🙏
John Walker was a good guy who had the weight of the word on his shoulders and he still tried to be a hero, was nothing but nice and helpful to Sam and Bucky, fought against terrorists who killed people, was rightly angry at Zemo being freed, killed a terrorist who attacked him after seeing his best friend die and it was clearly in a moment of rage and grief, comforted his late friend’s family and saved a truck full of politicians rather than avenging his friend.
@@SpiderJack99 I would be OK with bucky as the next cap, but Walker earned it. He stands for all of steves principals the whole damn show and gets shit all over.
@ I’m fine with Sam being Cap but he gave it up then acted like a dick to John and Bucky then got it because Marvel wanted to sell toys of the new costume. If Sam have it up at first then realised that even if he doesn’t think he’s worthy then took up the mantle that would have been fine but it’s not what he got.
@@SpiderJack99 I prefer Sam as Falcon TBH, He was already cool, let bucky or walker be Cap. I prefer Bucky as it fits his redemption arc. Falcon didnt need the shield to be awesome
The irony that the "super advanced" African civilization has an executive government based on hereditary monarchy and trial by combat, and has a secret police force of loud black women who travel the world jumping people for no reason.
You can always tell the product is an abysmal failure when the only person who seems to be making any sense is the one who's framed in a negative light.
@@BrandonHeat243 that show was on a downward spiral even before season 2 began airing but yeah I remember he was one of the only highlights of season 3, no doubt due to the charismatic presence of the actor, Jensen Ackles.
The thing is that modern media wants you to sympathize with intrinsic evil and yet when they try to portray evil they show understandable, if only by being pragmatic and justified but often instrinsic good
Don travels around the world gifting troubled women with his seed. He just ask them if they want to be mothers of the most wonderful people that could be, and if they accept the responsability of helping them to save the world. If they accept, they are just pregnant, like the virgin Mary, destined for a higher calling with a child destined for greatness. Don know God's biggest mistake was to try to guide the humans with only one Jesus.
john Walker is how you do an actual Captain America successor, he takes the mantle and actually gives himself a new name to differentiate themselves from the original, US Agent. What has other hand me downs given themselves as a new name.
its a lame name but the sentiment is definitely appreciated. there is only one Captain America- in this universe anyway walker knows that and respects it. i forget his rank because i skimmed this dumpster fire but even “Lieutenant America” or something would be respectful enough.
Ironheart for Riri Williams. Ghost Spider / Gwenpool for Gwen Stacy. Those are the only two I can think of off the top of my head. Even Miles Morales takes the name "Spider-Man", though it was always meant to be that anyone could be Spider-Man - an everyday hero sort.
@@kiofeaNeither Ghost-Spider nor Gwenpool are and were ever meant to be successors/replacements (Also Gwenpool isn't Gwen Stacy if that's what you are saying)
Nah. These are the people who are angry at Thanos for not snapping away specifically white people throughout the universe... Yes they oddly exist Who am I kidding. Oddly They unsurprisingly exist because hatred is their entire reason to exist
@@nathanjora7627 reverse Berserk then. The idea of Goodness was inside their minds, they were unable to make anything good themselves, so it was born on it's own and began acting on it.
The way Walker’s story played out is just proof of broken the morals of the writers are, can’t wait for the Thunderbolts to shit all over home for doing his job.
@ I’m sure the first example was The Don but John Walker became the primo example of a character the writers want you to hate but accidentally becomes loved
@@HectorLopez0217 The first I know of is Rorschach by Alan Moore who wrote him in the 90s I think with the intention to make him a strawman parody of political views he hates, but he was by far the most popular character in that series (Watchmen) and people agreed with Rorshach, or at least sympathized with him and understood his motivations. There are probably other earlier examples, but he's the earliest I know of
@@BaneofGods Rorschach is the ONLY character in Watchmen who doesn't compromise on his morals by the end, consistently punishing awful people who either hurt others (the pedo he burns) or were trying to either kill him or do worse than killing him (the criminals in the jail). Dr. Manhattan? He becomes detached and lets himself drift when he should be working towards a peaceful resolution directly. Silk Spectre? She's an adrenaline junkie. The Comedian? He's a sadist, a rapist, and worse. Ozymandias? An egotistical fool who's going to doom the world to nuclear war anyway because his deception will be found out. The Owl? He gave up the fight, even though he actually had the true moral compass needed to be a true hero. Rorschach? Yes, he's an uncompromising objectivist, so he DOES do things like throw that masochist pretending to be a villain down an elevator shaft, but he's also the only one who kept fighting. It's sad. Alan Moore deconstructs all the other heroes, but doesn't realize how he set up Rorschach to be the only moral person, even if he's a very harsh judge.
@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Exactly; the Supreme Ruler of Latveria would say that without breaking a sweat, your good guys saying that should be a serious problem esp. the ones from an isolationist state...
Can you imagine Falcon in Secret Wars? Nick Fury: Hey Sam, Dr Doom has absorbed the power of The Beyonder. What's the plan? Falcon: You need to do better, Victor. Nick Fury: Mother fu-
Lol. In Captain America we see him just heroically march with his squad as he guns down Nazis and blows up warehouses and tanks with Nazis in them. In Avengers, Cap casually dismembers and kills aliens.(but because they dont speak the apparent universal language of english, nobody cares). Captain America absolutely kills. He just does it for the sake of protecting those he feels are being bullied.
Even forgetting all of that, the fact he's worthy of Mjolnir proves that Steve Rogers has no problem with killing people if he absolutely has to (requirement of the hammer is willingness to take a life to save others). So right there that pretty much proves that being captain America and not having a problem with killing people is not a new concept but this is modern MCU fans we're talking about so of course they ignore these things
@bandawin18 sure. If you want to look at it that way. I mean, Mjolnir has been killing things since the 1st Thor movie. In the 1st Avengers when the Carrier is under attack, Steve literally uses an assault rifle on several guys. Even throws them off the carrier to their deaths. Then, the most obvious example. When Steve lands on that ship, sprints full speed, and spartan kicks a guy so hard he bounces off the railing(definitely shattering his spine), and then falls into freezing cold water to die.
@blueeyedemon8 man I didn't even think of all that, Steve was straight slaughtering people since day 1 💀. People really wanna act like he was some pure innocent soul when he's got a body count of actually innocent people AND terrorists (remember those people from the avengers that Steve took out were just mind controlled by Loki's scepter 😬 kinda fucked up)
Yeah let's not forget the show literally started out with Sam killing Batrocs men in brutal fashion. But John does one kill on a terrorist, and he's worser then Hitler???
@@bandawin18 HOLY SHIT THATS TRUE. All those soldiers that he hurls off the hellacarrier are mind controlled Shield agents. That alone is fucking mental.
Bucky becomes a flaccid, impotent moron. Sam becomes a useless moralizer. The Wakandians are portrayed as barbaric, violent spear-chuckers. Iron Man never provided for his fellow Avengers teammates. Sharon Carter is apparently a villain. The only one who comes out better from this show is Zemo.
@UltronImperative There's no reason he couldn't have had it set up before the blip, and there's no reason he couldn't have set something up for the Avengers in general, and there's no reason not to set something up when he knew there was a decent chance he would die when they did the time machine thing.
Part of me is glad that this will happen because that means he will still be the heroic figure he is portrayed here instead of an actual bad guy. Although i’m nou looking forward to him getting shit on again
@@Thomasmemoryscentral makes you wonder how people can hate a character so much simply because they're framed as a villain by the show. They don't even need to do anything wrong but because the programming says they're evil, they're evil. The character is so evil that you're entitled to send death threats to the actor portraying them. This, ladies and gentlemen, is why I have zero respect for the brainless sheep on the left
I randomly looked into the discourse around Walker a few months ago and I've been so flabbergasted ever since. It wouldn't matter if the show thought he was bad but there's real people with the supposed ability to think and reason who watch this show and say "yeah he's the evil one there" like....wha? I'm so mad about it
I hear you man. There's an alarming amount of people who lack critical thinking. They will accept what they're told by the show and then everything else becomes confirmation bias toward that belief.
@@thanatosdriver1938 And the benefits of civilians and society at large..... definitionally..... Because the dude was a terrorist you chromosomally challenged individual.
@@thanatosdriver1938you mean him rightfully killing the super soldier terrorist that was trying to escape, has killed and was willing to kill innocent people to escape, and was not actually making any attempt to surrender or submit?
@@thanatosdriver1938 At worst you could say that he did that out of blind rage and it turned out to be a PR nightmare, but still the guy he killed was a super soldier terrorist who aided and abetted in killing innocent people. And the next time Walker tried to kill someone out of revenge, he ended up deciding not to do it because he prioritized saving people instead.
Reminds me that some insane people were sending death threats to the ACTOR for John Walker because they hated the character... For no fucking reason... He played a likeable character that was framed as a villain by the show and that is why people didn't like him. Let that sink in
Wait people thought Heimerdinger was evil? How? He was a bit inept at being a councillor and didn't argue his point well enough but that's due to him being too idealistic. Why do people think he's evil? Plus, Arcane didn't treat him as evil. It does show him being treated the way he is as a bad thing and a sign of Jayces manipulated states.
People condemning Walker's kill are the prime example of audiences accepting how stories are framed uncritically, regardless of how poor the execution is.
Framing is how information is communicated within the story. There are cuts to the guy holding up his hands and begging, then cuts to the shield, then cuts to Walker yelling before bringing the shield down. Walker sees his opponent is begging, he does not stop delivering the finishing blow, and the reason is that he is angry. This was not a tragic mistake or Walker making a tactical decision because he believed his life was in danger: He was angry and decided to take this guy out. The show's morality is totally screwy and Walker is very sympathetic but this was an execution.
@@ShadowRulah This is what I mean by accepting framing uncritically - looking at the surface level presentation with no consideration for the reality established prior. The guy "begging" was moments ago fighting to kill Walker, was attempting to inflict harm on him in that very chase. He's also not weak and helpless - he's got super soldier strength. Oh yea, he's also part of a terrorist organization that has made no bones about hurting non-combatants, and has fled to a public area. Walker had every right to completely neutralize the threat, even if it required lethal force. *At best* you can say it was tactically more prudent to capture him alive to find the other terrorists.
@@ShakerSilver The reality established in the scene is that he is raising his hands in a gesture of surrender and begging not to be killed. The reason for the framing BEING that way is to make clear Walker's state of mind- he is not in his view neutralizing a threat, defending himself, or defending anyone else. Yes he is a bad guy, yes has attempted to flee and hurt people, no you cannot execute him.
@ShadowRulah I placed "begging" in quotes because he was not even surrendering. He was simply deflecting and saying "it wasn't me" in reference to Lamar's death, just trying to escape pursuit. You're still letting the framing warp your understanding to where you cannot imagine this as anything but an "execution". Its not an execution when you are in incensed by the fear caused by risk to your own life and the life of others to neutralize a threat by any means necessary. Him being on the floor as a SUPER SOLDIER does not make him neutralized as a threat.
@@ShakerSilver Yeah you're not listening: Walker was not afraid. He wasn't worried about civilians, he wasn't the worried the guy was going to start fighting again, he wasn't afraid for his life, he had sufficient time to recognize the guy was no longer fighting back, he didn't think the guy was going to escape if he didn't take him out. The reason we have these specific cuts and this specific music isn't just to make you feel it was unjustified it's to make sure you know why from the perspective of Walker, he did this. You're not resisting manipulative editing you're just not engaging with how information is communicated in film.
“The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever they find themselves to be” Walker is acting as a Representative of the GRC which consists of basically every major country on the planet. Their jurisdiction trumps that of a tiny ass county in the middle of Africa whose military mainly consists of bald chicks with spears.
Ironwood was the goat. The best thing to come out of that shitshow of a series. Him tearing his last human arm through the weird energy shield as the skin is seared off just to stop Watts was fricking epic. This is a guy who is already questioning how much of himself is still human and still chose to sacrifice what remains without hesitation to try and save the world. Too bad the show writers ruined him. Sigh
Just saying, Captain America (Steve Rogers) tried to save a terrorist (Bucky/Winter Soldier) who has killed many people, including Tony Stark's parents. Steve also hid this information from Tony Stark for some time and turned his back on his country. John Walker did nothing wrong.
To be fair that's hardly the same thing. Bucky was brainwashed and not responsible for his actions. Also, Steve asked some stooge if Bucky would get a fair trial and the stooge laughed at him. I agree that John Walker did nothing wrong though.
The show really tried to make me hate John Walker but in turn, I actually liked his character. I definitely would consider John Walker as Captain America than Sam Wilson.
The issue I also have with people criticizing John’s actions is that the guy never actually surrendered as people claim. All he says is “It wasn’t me!” which is dumb since he’s definitely an accomplice at best. Not a declaration of surrender and John has no reason to read it as such, especially in his current headspace. For all anyone knows, his hands are up in a bracing position considering he knows what’s about to come down on him. As a super soldier, he demonstrated that he can never be considered unarmed since seconds ago he hurled a hunk of concrete that would have killed most people. Add on top of that the fact that it was the heat of a very emotional battle and it suddenly becomes amazing that nobody else got killed up to this point considering the fact that they keep being put up against lethal force.
His hands were never in a position that would be considered harmless when they are right in front of him. And labeling him an accomplice is the very minimal label you can give him since he directly played a hand in subduing John long enough to try and get killed by Karlie. No legal system in the world would ever see Nico as a saint in this situation
@@CryptidZeker415 The people who see that scene and think that the guy was in a surrendering pose or helpless have never been in a fight, or even any training. I did some martial arts way back in high school, and even I can think of at least two ways Nico could have broken out of at that situation if Walker gave him a second. And it's just not a surrendering pose. It's hands open and out, it's just a defensive posture, not a surrendering one. Like, you take one day of self-defense training, and you'd be able to recognize that open hand posture. Surrendering is hands up above or behind the head. And you say "I surrender." It's that simple. Nico did none of that. What's stupid is that...they could have just had him do that, if Nico surrendering was the intention.
23:36 This is even worse, because that's not the shield from the Sacred Timeline; that got destroyed by Thanos's sword during the Battle of Earth. Steve Rogers brought that shield back from an alternate timeline/dimension, so it REALLY doesn't belong to Wakanda at all.
It's all about framing. Steve shot down multiple mind controlled SHIELD agents in Avengers, but since there was no slow mo and tense music the audience didn't think it was evil.
Framing communicates information. If someone asked Steve why he did that we'd expect him to say it was necessary as part of achieving his objectives because that's what the scene shows. If he announced he hated them and they deserved it we'd be confused because that's not what went down. The reason we have dramatic cuts and music with close ups on John Walker and the guy with his arms up isn't to make him look bad it's to show the why of what's going on. John Walker takes the guy out because he's angry- he sees him raising his hands and proclaiming it wasn't him and he does not stay his hand. When confronted he acknowledges this is why he did it. Walker didn't view his actions as the only way to stop the guy, it was revenge.
@bloodlinefilms The fact they are still doing re-shoots when the film is supposed to come out in February is insane, but hey it's Disney Marvel. The same studio that shot $250-300 million blockbusters with an unfinished script twice.
The morals in the slop these days are such a fascinating insight into the average hollywood writer's brain. This, wandavision and agatha all along, rings of power, ryan johnsons entire filmography, to name a few examples. They must be fucking insufferable to be around
Eeerrrm achtsually you guys need some media literacy. They clearly filmed the guy with bad guy angles and used bad guy music. Plus all the characters the writers desperately want you to like hate him. Therefore: evilman.
@@charlesruteal9062 Not the bad guys but in isolation the will to cause harm to others for your own self benefit is how we define evil. Good is a much more nebulous term and is hard to get to. It's really hard to get to being good without being evil
And you just know thunderbolts is still going to view Jonas’s villain or jerk or something. It’ll be him and red guardian that get dragged by everyone else.
I was incensed from the SECOND I saw the “we have JX wherever we find ourselves” line. Then I saw people SUPPORTING that line and reached a new level of outrage.
In regards to the cultural differences, in my opinion it's up to the foreigner to understand and adapt to at least the greeting culture of a different country, especially if you're engaging in diplomatic talks in their own country, you can't expect people to behave exactly like you want them to, that's called being entitled and a moron
I don't know if this commentary is supposed to be sarcastic or not. The point he was making was that John was completely nonthreatening, and no culture would interpret his behavior as such. Besides, both the Wakandans and John are in Latvia. Who is obligated to respect the other's greeting culture?
F&WS is so poorly written that they they forget to make the antagonist antagonistic. They make him too good of a human being for the audience to consider him a bad guy, but he is still treated as a bad guy by the main characters and the meta narrative
you realize your show sucks when the character who in theory should be the evil and unworthy one is literally the most reasonable character in the entire series. Seriously, Walker and Lamar are literally the only characters in this entire series who from the beginning tried to have a dialogue, while everyone else at some point acts like assholes who want everything to be done their way without caring about the consequences of that.
John Walker is the single best new character in the MCU since Phase 3 ended, and they don't even realize it because their intention was to treat him like an antagonist, then a joke. It baffles me how you can create such a strong character and not even realize it, then instead lean into your LITERAL TERRORIST. Phase 4, ladies and gentlemen.
The Winter Soldier would have been a credible threat to absolutely everyone in that move. Simultaneously. Of course he lost to god damn sticks and bald.
Steve literally broke off from the Avengers, fought against them and caused untold amounts of irreparable damage to the political landscape and the fate of the world in the MCU just cause Bucky was gonna go to jail. But John kills an active terrorist (something Steve does quite regularly and with little reason besides the fact that it's his job) after said terrorist absolutely was involved in the murder of Lamar and John is somehow the worst person ever. It's actually baffling how people think that guy was innocent just because he wasn't the one that actually killed Lamar. He was literally the one holding John back so that Karli could murder him. Lamar literally wouldn't be dead if the terrorist guy wasn't holding John back. Lamar wouldn't need to tackle Karli and if he did tackle Karli John would've been about to save him if he wasn't being held back. What was even their plan after they killed John? You think Lamar wouldn't try to fight them and that they'd be forced to kill him too? Like, they're in active combat and their entire goal is to kill John but, for whatever reason, everybody stops fighting because Lamar dies? Why did they not continue with their goal to kill John? This series is so stupid.
The fact it's a ginger female is sort of a messed up funny because on one hand, a ton of red heads have races wars and on the other hand, they're suddenly perfect if a specific product calls for it
In my opinion John walker is the only interesting character that’s been introduced since endgame. He’s the only character I wanted to see more of after a Disney plus show.
13:25 that's the problem with a lot of this. Characters fight like they already read the script, and know for a fact who has script immunity and who doesn't. I remember the joke being made way back when, in Avengers 1, when Thor brings the hammer down on Captain America. Like "How did he even know he would NOT be turned to mulch?!". Of course, then it was easily explained away. But when it happens all the time, it becomes very noticeable.
The answer for Avengers 1 is Thor DIDN'T know that for sure, but had good reason to believe that Cap could take it, dodge it, or would defend with his shield because of the preceding fight. And we do see Cap hiding behind his shield there, and both of them realizing the fight is pointless after that hit causes massive damage to the forest around them.
@hariman7727 well, he had no GOOD reason to expect him to be anything but a normal, albeit brave, human. BUT, he WAS in a battling mood and he always has been presented as, just that kind of character. So, no one questioned it too much, and it was ok.
I remember seeing the Just Write video on this scene and being horrified by his take on it which just didn’t make sense. It seems like for a lot of people the Dora Milajae and Wakanda in general just can’t do anything wrong.
And yet they have. In BP they were about to go on a genocidal war on behalf of some dick just cuz his dad was a brother of their former king, even though he was a traitor for selling weaponry. No one resisted. Not even Michonne. They enslaved the tribes of the past. And they kill anyone that finds them.
Everyone in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier is some different level of Asshole except John Walker and Lamar, they are the only genuinely good people in this entire shit heap.
I will add to the brief mention of Cap's "mistake" in The Winter Soldier being to blow up the 3 Helicarriers and indirectly kill hundreds of innocents that those 3 helicarriers were directly stated in that movie to be used by Hydra to open fire on millions of people across earth to scare the world's countries into submission. Cap did not make a mistake in that movie. It's absolutely regrettable that it caused the deaths of hundreds of innocents (and let's be honest, not everyone on those helicarriers was working for Hydra or even knew what was happening), but calling it a mistake means that it was explicitly the wrong thing to do, but you simply cannot argue that when the organization that openly admits their goal being to remove freedom from the human race to control them through fear and violence is literally seconds away from using those Helicarriers to violently achieve that goal and murder literal millions _in their own words_. Hell, it's literally their attempt to open fire on said millions that caused the destruction of the Helicarriers, but Steve updated their target list to fire on each other right before they opened fire
If the writers were smart they would have given John Walker the super soldier serum so that have the excuse to have him act as more of an antagonist. Since it was already established that when you take the serum you turn into either Red Skull or Captain America, with Bucky being a more neutral option.
40:24 Look at mr. smasher's face here. Why is he surprised one of his opponents died? Are the Flagsmashers ALSO not here to kill anyone, just like the heroes? Why did they bring knives? Are they still somehow unaware Karli is okay with killing people in her crusade? This is so dopey, to make it look like Walker's eventual victim was really an innocent little butterfly who was just defending himself, while he tries to feed families.
Just to show how easily a scene can be changed by the music playing in the background, I made an edit of the scene where Joh Waler executes that terrorist (starting a couple seconds after the kill itself, just the camera panning shot that shows everyone's reaction) but with the soundtrack from Mass Effect 1's ending scene
I think the juxtaposition between John and Sam was that John was trying so much to replicate Steve that it played on his insecurities and took the serum, whereas Sam being inspired by Steve, was meant to be more of a empathetic leader with a focus community. I just don't think the writing quality really helped with that comparison.
I think it could've worked better if it was Bucky and Walker working together. Bucky would hate Walker and think low of him while still feeling guilty from being an assassin for decades, and Walker would be insecure but earnest, yet naive and lacking. And over the series, or movie, they both would grow to be better. But of course that would be too much for Disney.
34:15 Did anybody else notice that the star on John's collarbone switched places here? It also did this on the truck, and in the warehouse after Lemar's death.
Yeah but the reason why you get woke in these circumstances is because it is very wrong to kill (actually you can't so much as attack) someone who surrendered
They frame walker in such a negative light that it threw people off when in the finale he’s actually helping people and trying to do good. I don’t think the show even believes walker is a bad guy towards the end since if he was a true villain like they attempted to show he would’ve seeked revenge instead of saving those politicians. He’s a guy basically shoved into an already established group of barely connected people across the globe without any guidance or direction from these people but told to step up and when he does isn’t taken seriously
John Walker is the modern-day Rorschach, except in the modern day, anything less than absolute and total deference to minorities is as bad as Rorschachs genuine racism, misogyny, and homophobia back when he was written. Regardless, they are both flawed characters who, regardless of their flaws, are still trying to do the right thing in a world where everyone is telling them that its wrong
"HOW?! We only have so much supplies. Terrorists are stealing and destroying supplies while we're trying to distribute them. People like you are pretending that moralizing and speeching at me helps, when all it does is make YOU feel good for yelling at someone. And nobody's telling us what's wrong, they're only complaining that we're not perfect. So HOW do we do better, huh? Do you have a plan that might help? Organizers? Supplies of food that AREN'T already slated for distribution? YOU need to do more than yelling at others, and actually HELP, you pathetic hypocrite."
It's the compare/contrast tactic. They knew Sam would be a hard sell as "cap" so they needed a side-quest antagonist to reinforce how much better Sam would be by comparison. In theory it's a fine tactic for a writer to use... but the show was helmed by morons so Walker ended up having the opposite effect. In fairness though... having him share screen time with the obvious choice (Bucky) was also poorly planned I think Walker will be pretty popular in the Thunderbolts movie... I don't watch trash so you guys will have to let me know ;-)
6:20 That's what an Asari Justicar says, like Samara, to justify their actions, which is obviously wrong, and is something that is clearly opposed by everyone, even the Asari themselves, in Mass Effect 2. Thing is, they did a great job and ME2 is awesome, as opposed to this trash fire.
Exactly! Samara is a terrifying religious zealot and it’s clear that everyone wants her gone as quickly as possible, even though they’re on an Asari world, the Justicars are an Asari establishment and the world operates on Asari rules, so following this show’s logic, Samara is utterly chill and there should be no problems.
And even with Samara KNOWING that she could force her way in, she didn't, hoping some other solution would present itself before having to brute force her way through. Shepherd thankfully was that solution.
Someone should do a cinema sins style video that just counts the number of diplomatic incidents that are caused by the wakandans. We have to be at double digits at this point
If they made a new Captain America movie starring John Walker, it would just be a good movie (even though the makers would keep trying to villainize him in it)
The fact the writers were trying to make John Walker the villain is so stupid when you have the actual terrorists run by freckle jesus who killed tons of innocent of people, blow up buildings and threaten innocent. Than you have the people in wakanda who acts like tyrants and tried to killed John, bucky, john friend and falcon by touching her shoulder. That psychotic behavior and they want the audience to like them that's insane. The writers are trying to make rhe audiences sympathy with the villains who killed innocent than. They have no moral ground it ridiculous. Especially how they tried to villainize Walker for defending his own life and the same people killed his friend. These writers are not only insane but stupid and I can't believe people bought into this and think good. Than again these people who writing this would agree that wanda was actually the good guy during doctor strange and wanda vision even though she was a psychopath. Same with killmoger even though the guy was literally acting like the funny man with the mustache and want to killed people who weren't like him. Or with shehulk when they made it where bruce life is nothing compared to her because she is a woman and live in "oppression life" even though Bruce was being abused by psychotic father. His mother was killed by his father right in front of him and was abused. Have the military chased him to the ends of the earth to used as a weapon and a experiment as well so bruce can't settle down and if so he has to be alone.Or if he get a slight bit angry he will lose control and the hulk will caused problems for bruce. Or how he is suicidal and trying multiple attempts to end his life but the hulk wouldn't let him or how the people he is around get hurt and the womens he love get killed or he can't be with because of the hulk or someone is always after him like Betty who he can't be with because his dad hates him and is run by the USA military and ia trying to track him down to use as a weapon. These writers can't tell a story, they don't know how to make them heros or be heroic, they instead characters assignatate them for the most stupid reasons or to push a forced agenda that everyone hates. There up there with people in the comic book industry, the video game industry, the people who made star trek, doctor who, rwby, indian jones and ect. They ruin shows because they are hacks who can't write and only care about there message
it's wild when you watch a show and all you can take away from it is that the writers, in real life, hold the moral position of "everything done by people i like is good, everything done by people i hate is bad."
Enters room, _immediately_ chucks a spear at the first person they see, then declares extra-judicial global hegemony. These are Disney's advanced, enlightened, anti-colonial heroes.
someone too based was sabotaging this production
This, exactly.
Wakanda: Hates America
Also Wakanda: Does the same thing that Americans did
“Rules for thee but not for me!” Plagues humankind since inception.
Someone in the writers room thought this was probably pretty clever. "Don't you see? They're just like America!" They probably also thought it was clever to show how Johnny Walker was the kind of America the rest of the world sees, blood on the shield and everything.
“The dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever they find themselves to be”
The whole point of the sokovia accords that their former king supported is that superheroes shouldn’t have jurisdiction wherever they happen to be
They aren't super heroes they are just soldiers. This makes it worse actually
@@thanatosdriver1938it's even funnier when you realize their King willingly relinquished jurisdiction over the criminal they are trying to take to begin with when he surrendered him to the German government.
Put the imperial march over that scene and it really highlights the villainy lmao
Is my memory of history class bad, or is that literally what manifest destiny is?
@@NICK41206 Manifest destiny was more of a "We already got a third of this, why not just send it all the way?" This is just one nation directly undermining the authority and laws of another.
They are going to clown on Walker in the Thunderbolts even more. Imagine being so politically brain-rotten that you accidentally write a good character and think he sucks.
It's incredible how much that happens with terrible writers. Something similar happened in season 7 of RWBY with Ironwood, they made made him a complex character that you were supposed to hate despite the "heroes" screwing him over at every turn, then next season, have him randomly shoot a civilian for no reason because too many people were on his side during season 7.
@@Bogglemanifyhe got some of the worst character assassination I have ever seen. Originally introduced as a competent leader of his soldiers who was willing to personally put his life on the frontlines when push came to shove, only to become a wannabe dictator with no intelligence when we see him again.
That’s because the cowards and ‘Whiney Grifters of Amerika’ (WGA) despises and hates soldiers and warriors, because our courage is a constant reminder of how disgustingly mediocre and inadequate these brutes, hacks and vandals truly are.
@@TheArmyOfOne100 the most offensive part to me was they fought him because of his plan which was reasonable and then they had the audacity to do the same plan literally the start of next season and it was like a slap in the face.
@@Bogglemanify And then the writers handwave it with "Oh, he actually has a completely unmentioned superpower that gives him turbo autism in important moments that makes him unable to look further than his current objective" whichm aside from being pulled out of their ass, now makes him even more of a victim because he has something that puts his own agency into question and he can't turn off.
I wrote a college essay to prove that John Walker was legally innocent. If you look at it objectively, he was attacked by terrorists, one of them retreats to gain an advantage, John chases him down, the terrorist proves he’s a threat by throwing concrete with lethal force, even when pinned he’s a lethal weapon, so John quickly and effectively eliminates the threat. I got an A.
Congratulations! 🎉🎉🎉 👏👏👏👏👏👏
Awesome, and yeah, let's not forget the prior encounters he had already had with this specific group. First was in the truck where he stopped them from killing Sam Wilson. Then later on in the church where he peacefully was attempting to arrest Karlie. Not bringing his shield up or anything. Only peacefully telling her she's under arrest only to immediately get attacked by her so she can escape. Then the next encounter with them was the kidnapping of lemar that resulted in his death on top of all the soldiers this specific group of people had killed already(with bombing that building).
Granted, yes, for PR reasons, he would have to turn in the shield, but never be publicly disgraced as much as the show made it out to be
A for America
Actual veterans have broken down how John Walker literally did nothing wrong.
Link?
Please link
Yeah I'm going to need proof that these veterans give the green light on intentionally killing someone who has surrendered
@@mrdropkicker1 ruclips.net/video/xRB2HR6Rva0/видео.html
@@mrdropkicker1Clipped Coin has a video on it.
ruclips.net/video/xRB2HR6Rva0/видео.htmlsi=hPbPXqbCPnwgKRlf
>portray wakandians as low impulse control spear "throwers"
what did the writers mean by this 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Dude there's a stromfront guy in that writing room with +50 hiding power level.
It is funny that an African super civilization invented by a white man in the 1960s has literal spear chucking as it's peak offensive weaponry.
Remember in the first Blacl Panther movie when one of the Wakandan tribes literally made monkey noises when they got mad? How tf was that supposed to be empowering exactly?
There's nobody as racist as a liberal "ally".
New word for the list: Throwers
In the first cap movie, in the propaganda video shown to an audience, he's using a machine gun on enemies in the foreground. In war montage, he throws a bag of grenades into the hatch of a super tank. In a different scene, when he breaks into a Fort with his team, he covers his face with the shild while firing a pistol in front of him. Cap killed plenty of people! He didn't wince at any time. He did what he had to, and it was all on record in universe. He probably wouldn't want to do that after the war, but people definitely know he has killed before
Hell, even Falcon has killed people by the sheer fact before he became Falcon he was a member of the special forces in the US military. Those guys don’t just sit around making arts and crafts, when they get deployed someone is dying.
@@BigBroTejano he also kills people in winter soldier i think, in the final battle he shoots a bunch of hydra dudes
Cap isn't afraid of killing when he has to, but won't kill if the option to neutralize is available. He's a professional doing a job.
This line from the movie sums it up pretty well: "I won't stop until all of HYDRA are either killed or captured."
"I don't _want_ to kill anybody. But I don't like bullies; I don't care where they come from."
Literally Captain America's character; his entire moral compass; distilled into a single line of dialogue.
They tried so hard to villianize him but he ironically was the best character. He did nothing wrong, but the show says he did
because the authors of the show see heroes as villains, and villains as heroes. A complete backwards morality
>They tried so hard
🎶And flopped so far, But in the end, it doesn't even matter🎶
Because he is the villain he was killing people and tarnishing the symbol that Steve Rogers set as an example
Yeah...idk about this one
I agree that Walker was mostly a good guy, but idk if he should have killed the cringe terrorist man. Bro was already on the ground, he didn't have a weapon, Walker clearly had him subdued, and yet he opted to kill him in front of a tone of people. Not a very good look for Captain America. If his reason for killing him was to protect more people I could buy it...but in this case, it just seems hard to justify
I DO want to hear another perspective on this tho so please let me know where I might be wrong on this
Edit: My mind has been changed on this, thanks to all who responded & helped me understand John Walker is a gigachad! 🙏
@@Dr.Pelican-bw2zshe had super soldier serym, dude literally WAS a weapon.
John Walker was a good guy who had the weight of the word on his shoulders and he still tried to be a hero, was nothing but nice and helpful to Sam and Bucky, fought against terrorists who killed people, was rightly angry at Zemo being freed, killed a terrorist who attacked him after seeing his best friend die and it was clearly in a moment of rage and grief, comforted his late friend’s family and saved a truck full of politicians rather than avenging his friend.
Walker is the next Captain America, HE EARNED IT
@ he’s a better choice than Bucky or Sam given that they were assholes to him and Lamar
@@SpiderJack99 I would be OK with bucky as the next cap, but Walker earned it. He stands for all of steves principals the whole damn show and gets shit all over.
@ I’m fine with Sam being Cap but he gave it up then acted like a dick to John and Bucky then got it because Marvel wanted to sell toys of the new costume. If Sam have it up at first then realised that even if he doesn’t think he’s worthy then took up the mantle that would have been fine but it’s not what he got.
@@SpiderJack99 I prefer Sam as Falcon TBH, He was already cool, let bucky or walker be Cap. I prefer Bucky as it fits his redemption arc. Falcon didnt need the shield to be awesome
The irony that the "super advanced" African civilization has an executive government based on hereditary monarchy and trial by combat, and has a secret police force of loud black women who travel the world jumping people for no reason.
You can always tell the product is an abysmal failure when the only person who seems to be making any sense is the one who's framed in a negative light.
Reminds me of how Soldier Boy was the best thing about The Boys season 3.
@@BrandonHeat243 that show was on a downward spiral even before season 2 began airing but yeah I remember he was one of the only highlights of season 3, no doubt due to the charismatic presence of the actor, Jensen Ackles.
The thing is that modern media wants you to sympathize with intrinsic evil and yet when they try to portray evil they show understandable, if only by being pragmatic and justified but often instrinsic good
John Walker, Soldier Boy, James Ironwood. All great characters from shitty shows with shitty writing.
@@Arkenstone435 based and accurate.
It is my personal headcanon that John Walker is the son of the legendary "Don" from Captain Marvel.
The fact that Captain Marvel and this show are set at least a generation apart makes the timeline believable that way.
*DON AND JOHN*
Don travels around the world gifting troubled women with his seed. He just ask them if they want to be mothers of the most wonderful people that could be, and if they accept the responsability of helping them to save the world. If they accept, they are just pregnant, like the virgin Mary, destined for a higher calling with a child destined for greatness. Don know God's biggest mistake was to try to guide the humans with only one Jesus.
The timeline matches up.
Adopted son. John was an orphan and the Don, as the only person in history that is capable of loving orphans, adopted John and raised John as his own.
john Walker is how you do an actual Captain America successor, he takes the mantle and actually gives himself a new name to differentiate themselves from the original, US Agent. What has other hand me downs given themselves as a new name.
its a lame name but the sentiment is definitely appreciated. there is only one Captain America- in this universe anyway walker knows that and respects it. i forget his rank because i skimmed this dumpster fire but even “Lieutenant America” or something would be respectful enough.
@@bloodlinefilms Commander America sounds badass imo
@@Mrcryptidsarereal i can get behind that
Ironheart for Riri Williams.
Ghost Spider / Gwenpool for Gwen Stacy.
Those are the only two I can think of off the top of my head.
Even Miles Morales takes the name "Spider-Man", though it was always meant to be that anyone could be Spider-Man - an everyday hero sort.
@@kiofeaNeither Ghost-Spider nor Gwenpool are and were ever meant to be successors/replacements (Also Gwenpool isn't Gwen Stacy if that's what you are saying)
They created their own "New Guy."
The people who demonize this dude are the same people who think Thanos had a valid plan.
Nah. These are the people who are angry at Thanos for not snapping away specifically white people throughout the universe...
Yes they oddly exist
Who am I kidding. Oddly
They unsurprisingly exist because hatred is their entire reason to exist
They created The Don, except unironically.
@@nathanjora7627 reverse Berserk then. The idea of Goodness was inside their minds, they were unable to make anything good themselves, so it was born on it's own and began acting on it.
@@dimas3829Cool
The way Walker’s story played out is just proof of broken the morals of the writers are, can’t wait for the Thunderbolts to shit all over home for doing his job.
They hate US, because They ain’t US.
John Walker was so right he created the sympathetic straw man archetype
he probably didn't create it, but he certainly is a shining recent example that's extremely blatant and well known
@ I’m sure the first example was The Don but John Walker became the primo example of a character the writers want you to hate but accidentally becomes loved
@@HectorLopez0217 The first I know of is Rorschach by Alan Moore who wrote him in the 90s I think with the intention to make him a strawman parody of political views he hates, but he was by far the most popular character in that series (Watchmen) and people agreed with Rorshach, or at least sympathized with him and understood his motivations. There are probably other earlier examples, but he's the earliest I know of
John Walker is to the sympathetic strawman what Rey is to the Mary sue
@@BaneofGods Rorschach is the ONLY character in Watchmen who doesn't compromise on his morals by the end, consistently punishing awful people who either hurt others (the pedo he burns) or were trying to either kill him or do worse than killing him (the criminals in the jail).
Dr. Manhattan? He becomes detached and lets himself drift when he should be working towards a peaceful resolution directly.
Silk Spectre? She's an adrenaline junkie.
The Comedian? He's a sadist, a rapist, and worse.
Ozymandias? An egotistical fool who's going to doom the world to nuclear war anyway because his deception will be found out.
The Owl? He gave up the fight, even though he actually had the true moral compass needed to be a true hero.
Rorschach? Yes, he's an uncompromising objectivist, so he DOES do things like throw that masochist pretending to be a villain down an elevator shaft, but he's also the only one who kept fighting.
It's sad.
Alan Moore deconstructs all the other heroes, but doesn't realize how he set up Rorschach to be the only moral person, even if he's a very harsh judge.
John Walker is my Captain America.
AMEN
Same.
Well...maybe MCU John Walker.
Walker and Zemo were the heroes of that TV show on Disney.
@@Jim-TunerOnly to the writers. But to normal people, it will always be Walker
6:38 "DOOM has jurisdiction wherever DOOM finds himself to be!" - a line that could have been in a better show than this crap
From Dr. Doom that would be a sick line. From a purported "good guy" not so much.
@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Exactly; the Supreme Ruler of Latveria would say that without breaking a sweat, your good guys saying that should be a serious problem esp. the ones from an isolationist state...
"Fool! DOOM toots as he pleases!"
TOOT
@mrraziel4398 *plays "Rap Snitch Knishes" on the French horn*
Can you imagine Falcon in Secret Wars?
Nick Fury: Hey Sam, Dr Doom has absorbed the power of The Beyonder. What's the plan?
Falcon: You need to do better, Victor.
Nick Fury: Mother fu-
“Beholder”?
I think you mean Beyonder.
@henryjenkins2839 Oops my bad.
Fury: Black bird magic!
"Doom is BEYOND better."
Lol. In Captain America we see him just heroically march with his squad as he guns down Nazis and blows up warehouses and tanks with Nazis in them. In Avengers, Cap casually dismembers and kills aliens.(but because they dont speak the apparent universal language of english, nobody cares). Captain America absolutely kills. He just does it for the sake of protecting those he feels are being bullied.
Even forgetting all of that, the fact he's worthy of Mjolnir proves that Steve Rogers has no problem with killing people if he absolutely has to (requirement of the hammer is willingness to take a life to save others). So right there that pretty much proves that being captain America and not having a problem with killing people is not a new concept but this is modern MCU fans we're talking about so of course they ignore these things
@bandawin18 sure. If you want to look at it that way. I mean, Mjolnir has been killing things since the 1st Thor movie. In the 1st Avengers when the Carrier is under attack, Steve literally uses an assault rifle on several guys. Even throws them off the carrier to their deaths. Then, the most obvious example. When Steve lands on that ship, sprints full speed, and spartan kicks a guy so hard he bounces off the railing(definitely shattering his spine), and then falls into freezing cold water to die.
@blueeyedemon8 man I didn't even think of all that, Steve was straight slaughtering people since day 1 💀. People really wanna act like he was some pure innocent soul when he's got a body count of actually innocent people AND terrorists (remember those people from the avengers that Steve took out were just mind controlled by Loki's scepter 😬 kinda fucked up)
Yeah let's not forget the show literally started out with Sam killing Batrocs men in brutal fashion. But John does one kill on a terrorist, and he's worser then Hitler???
@@bandawin18 HOLY SHIT THATS TRUE. All those soldiers that he hurls off the hellacarrier are mind controlled Shield agents. That alone is fucking mental.
Bucky becomes a flaccid, impotent moron.
Sam becomes a useless moralizer.
The Wakandians are portrayed as barbaric, violent spear-chuckers.
Iron Man never provided for his fellow Avengers teammates.
Sharon Carter is apparently a villain.
The only one who comes out better from this show is Zemo.
Iron Man is dead here
@@UltronImperativeI think there's some plot about Sam being poor which implies Stark with his obscene wealth never helped the Avengers out
@@giant0mantis Sam was dead for 5 years during the blip, why would Tony make a bank account to fund a deadman
@UltronImperative There's no reason he couldn't have had it set up before the blip, and there's no reason he couldn't have set something up for the Avengers in general, and there's no reason not to set something up when he knew there was a decent chance he would die when they did the time machine thing.
@@giant0mantisthere’s no reason not to setup a bank account for a dead person? When the world is in chaos?
I have no doubt that Thunderbolts is going to continue putting him down
Part of me is glad that this will happen because that means he will still be the heroic figure he is portrayed here instead of an actual bad guy.
Although i’m nou looking forward to him getting shit on again
Everyone who isnt a raging leftoid or just a person with a completely fucked moral compass sees Johns reaction as completely justified.
If you remember, it crosses the line that his actor Wyatt Russell is harassed on social media over a fictional character HE IS PAID FOR
@@Thomasmemoryscentral makes you wonder how people can hate a character so much simply because they're framed as a villain by the show. They don't even need to do anything wrong but because the programming says they're evil, they're evil. The character is so evil that you're entitled to send death threats to the actor portraying them.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is why I have zero respect for the brainless sheep on the left
@@bandawin18 This happened to the guy who played Joffrey in Game of Thrones. It kind of soured him off of acting.
@@bandawin18 I guess it is a good thing that is just a reaction to fictional media and doesn't happen in real life..... Oh, wait.....
@@chillyavian7718 same thing with the guy who played young Anakin in star wars... And adult Anakin... Man some people are just nuts
5:46 You can feel for Fringy when he makes that passive-aggressive jab at calling the spears "So uncivilized"
I randomly looked into the discourse around Walker a few months ago and I've been so flabbergasted ever since. It wouldn't matter if the show thought he was bad but there's real people with the supposed ability to think and reason who watch this show and say "yeah he's the evil one there" like....wha? I'm so mad about it
I hear you man. There's an alarming amount of people who lack critical thinking. They will accept what they're told by the show and then everything else becomes confirmation bias toward that belief.
He is definitionally evil for the important scene. He was willing to harm someone for self benefit (in this case the benefits of avenging)
@@thanatosdriver1938 And the benefits of civilians and society at large..... definitionally..... Because the dude was a terrorist you chromosomally challenged individual.
@@thanatosdriver1938you mean him rightfully killing the super soldier terrorist that was trying to escape, has killed and was willing to kill innocent people to escape, and was not actually making any attempt to surrender or submit?
@@thanatosdriver1938 At worst you could say that he did that out of blind rage and it turned out to be a PR nightmare, but still the guy he killed was a super soldier terrorist who aided and abetted in killing innocent people.
And the next time Walker tried to kill someone out of revenge, he ended up deciding not to do it because he prioritized saving people instead.
Walker is the Heimerdinger of Marvel. Dumb people think he is evil because the show says so, not cause they do bad things.
Dumb people think that simping for a terrorist is good because she "just wants to kill people until the country gives her free stuff".
After the fumble that was Arcane S2 I'd love for those two characters to meet and hang out
Reminds me that some insane people were sending death threats to the ACTOR for John Walker because they hated the character... For no fucking reason... He played a likeable character that was framed as a villain by the show and that is why people didn't like him. Let that sink in
Wait people thought Heimerdinger was evil? How? He was a bit inept at being a councillor and didn't argue his point well enough but that's due to him being too idealistic. Why do people think he's evil?
Plus, Arcane didn't treat him as evil. It does show him being treated the way he is as a bad thing and a sign of Jayces manipulated states.
@@hk1371 Fool, don't you see he is an old person in a position of power? That means he is evil just like all boomers in real life!
People condemning Walker's kill are the prime example of audiences accepting how stories are framed uncritically, regardless of how poor the execution is.
Framing is how information is communicated within the story. There are cuts to the guy holding up his hands and begging, then cuts to the shield, then cuts to Walker yelling before bringing the shield down. Walker sees his opponent is begging, he does not stop delivering the finishing blow, and the reason is that he is angry. This was not a tragic mistake or Walker making a tactical decision because he believed his life was in danger: He was angry and decided to take this guy out.
The show's morality is totally screwy and Walker is very sympathetic but this was an execution.
@@ShadowRulah This is what I mean by accepting framing uncritically - looking at the surface level presentation with no consideration for the reality established prior. The guy "begging" was moments ago fighting to kill Walker, was attempting to inflict harm on him in that very chase. He's also not weak and helpless - he's got super soldier strength. Oh yea, he's also part of a terrorist organization that has made no bones about hurting non-combatants, and has fled to a public area. Walker had every right to completely neutralize the threat, even if it required lethal force. *At best* you can say it was tactically more prudent to capture him alive to find the other terrorists.
@@ShakerSilver The reality established in the scene is that he is raising his hands in a gesture of surrender and begging not to be killed. The reason for the framing BEING that way is to make clear Walker's state of mind- he is not in his view neutralizing a threat, defending himself, or defending anyone else. Yes he is a bad guy, yes has attempted to flee and hurt people, no you cannot execute him.
@ShadowRulah I placed "begging" in quotes because he was not even surrendering. He was simply deflecting and saying "it wasn't me" in reference to Lamar's death, just trying to escape pursuit. You're still letting the framing warp your understanding to where you cannot imagine this as anything but an "execution". Its not an execution when you are in incensed by the fear caused by risk to your own life and the life of others to neutralize a threat by any means necessary. Him being on the floor as a SUPER SOLDIER does not make him neutralized as a threat.
@@ShakerSilver Yeah you're not listening: Walker was not afraid. He wasn't worried about civilians, he wasn't the worried the guy was going to start fighting again, he wasn't afraid for his life, he had sufficient time to recognize the guy was no longer fighting back, he didn't think the guy was going to escape if he didn't take him out.
The reason we have these specific cuts and this specific music isn't just to make you feel it was unjustified it's to make sure you know why from the perspective of Walker, he did this. You're not resisting manipulative editing you're just not engaging with how information is communicated in film.
3:10 The same Zemo who killed your previous ruler, King T’Chaka. Why exactly would you be protecting this guy?
I don't like the Wakandans much but due process is a good explanation
@@thanatosdriver1938 They brand prisoners but don't execute them.
It was a fight of "custody" they were fighting to see who gets to take him.
“The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever they find themselves to be” Walker is acting as a Representative of the GRC which consists of basically every major country on the planet. Their jurisdiction trumps that of a tiny ass county in the middle of Africa whose military mainly consists of bald chicks with spears.
the dora milaje are more of a secret service/cia than military
I find John Walker a fascinating Hero, I'm the only one in my circle that actually appreciates his character.
He is such a good dude in the show and gets shit on so hard
Change your circle.
@@hellkaiser2009 Done. It's now a Cylinder.
@@MysticTroll May I please join the cylinder?
@@Wolffman109 Welcome!
Steve would’ve endorsed John; especially if Sam turned it down.
Watching how Marvel treats their unintentionally most heroic characters reminds me of what Rooster Teeth did to RWBY's General Ironwood.
Ironwood was the goat. The best thing to come out of that shitshow of a series. Him tearing his last human arm through the weird energy shield as the skin is seared off just to stop Watts was fricking epic. This is a guy who is already questioning how much of himself is still human and still chose to sacrifice what remains without hesitation to try and save the world. Too bad the show writers ruined him. Sigh
John: “Hey, I think we should chill, there was probably a misunderstanding”
- Attempts to immediately murder him with a spear.
Now this is cinema.
Just saying, Captain America (Steve Rogers) tried to save a terrorist (Bucky/Winter Soldier) who has killed many people, including Tony Stark's parents. Steve also hid this information from Tony Stark for some time and turned his back on his country. John Walker did nothing wrong.
He killed someone who surrendered. This is a war crime everywhere
To be fair that's hardly the same thing. Bucky was brainwashed and not responsible for his actions. Also, Steve asked some stooge if Bucky would get a fair trial and the stooge laughed at him.
I agree that John Walker did nothing wrong though.
I read this as "Falcon Did Nothing Wong" and was legitimately confused about not remembering if Falcon snd Wong met 😂
Falcon and the Wong Soldier
@@austin9568AuraMasterDX Why are we talking about Bucky's Wong?
The show really tried to make me hate John Walker but in turn, I actually liked his character. I definitely would consider John Walker as Captain America than Sam Wilson.
The issue I also have with people criticizing John’s actions is that the guy never actually surrendered as people claim. All he says is “It wasn’t me!” which is dumb since he’s definitely an accomplice at best. Not a declaration of surrender and John has no reason to read it as such, especially in his current headspace.
For all anyone knows, his hands are up in a bracing position considering he knows what’s about to come down on him. As a super soldier, he demonstrated that he can never be considered unarmed since seconds ago he hurled a hunk of concrete that would have killed most people. Add on top of that the fact that it was the heat of a very emotional battle and it suddenly becomes amazing that nobody else got killed up to this point considering the fact that they keep being put up against lethal force.
His hands were never in a position that would be considered harmless when they are right in front of him. And labeling him an accomplice is the very minimal label you can give him since he directly played a hand in subduing John long enough to try and get killed by Karlie. No legal system in the world would ever see Nico as a saint in this situation
@@CryptidZeker415 The people who see that scene and think that the guy was in a surrendering pose or helpless have never been in a fight, or even any training. I did some martial arts way back in high school, and even I can think of at least two ways Nico could have broken out of at that situation if Walker gave him a second. And it's just not a surrendering pose. It's hands open and out, it's just a defensive posture, not a surrendering one. Like, you take one day of self-defense training, and you'd be able to recognize that open hand posture.
Surrendering is hands up above or behind the head. And you say "I surrender." It's that simple. Nico did none of that. What's stupid is that...they could have just had him do that, if Nico surrendering was the intention.
23:36 This is even worse, because that's not the shield from the Sacred Timeline; that got destroyed by Thanos's sword during the Battle of Earth. Steve Rogers brought that shield back from an alternate timeline/dimension, so it REALLY doesn't belong to Wakanda at all.
It's all about framing. Steve shot down multiple mind controlled SHIELD agents in Avengers, but since there was no slow mo and tense music the audience didn't think it was evil.
Framing communicates information. If someone asked Steve why he did that we'd expect him to say it was necessary as part of achieving his objectives because that's what the scene shows. If he announced he hated them and they deserved it we'd be confused because that's not what went down.
The reason we have dramatic cuts and music with close ups on John Walker and the guy with his arms up isn't to make him look bad it's to show the why of what's going on. John Walker takes the guy out because he's angry- he sees him raising his hands and proclaiming it wasn't him and he does not stay his hand. When confronted he acknowledges this is why he did it. Walker didn't view his actions as the only way to stop the guy, it was revenge.
John Walker is more Captain America than Sam in my head canon. At least John had the balls to put an end to one of these terrorists.
I can't wait for the clusterfuck of a film that Brave New World is going to be.
youll be waiting an eternity apparently. the mcdonalds happy meal tie in toys came out months ago and the movie still isnt done. this thing is cooked.
@bloodlinefilms The fact they are still doing re-shoots when the film is supposed to come out in February is insane, but hey it's Disney Marvel. The same studio that shot $250-300 million blockbusters with an unfinished script twice.
Add to the fact they already fired the director AND they are doing additional reshoots makes this an unmitigated disaster
John walker is the new the Don.
This grammar checks out.
@rogerborg the Don will always be referred to as the Don
The morals in the slop these days are such a fascinating insight into the average hollywood writer's brain. This, wandavision and agatha all along, rings of power, ryan johnsons entire filmography, to name a few examples. They must be fucking insufferable to be around
Don't forget She-Hulk, Velma, and The Acolyte.
Eeerrrm achtsually you guys need some media literacy. They clearly filmed the guy with bad guy angles and used bad guy music. Plus all the characters the writers desperately want you to like hate him. Therefore: evilman.
He's evil because he is willing to cause harm to others for self benefit (in this case the benefits of avenging)
@@thanatosdriver1938 Ah, I didn't know the Avengers were the bad guys.
@@charlesruteal9062 Not the bad guys but in isolation the will to cause harm to others for your own self benefit is how we define evil. Good is a much more nebulous term and is hard to get to. It's really hard to get to being good without being evil
@@thanatosdriver1938he killed a terrorist who has killed innocent people and was actively fighting back
And you just know thunderbolts is still going to view Jonas’s villain or jerk or something. It’ll be him and red guardian that get dragged by everyone else.
At the very least, he still has his wife and a kid. So they can't be treating him that bad. Unless I'm wrong and they kill him or something.
@ we will just have to see what Thunderbolts does.
I was incensed from the SECOND I saw the “we have JX wherever we find ourselves” line. Then I saw people SUPPORTING that line and reached a new level of outrage.
So may I ask, considering the fact that borders are no longer a thing in this show, what is the issue with it?
Meanwhile Walker can't do jack shit despite literally being on the US government's payroll to find the enemies of the state. Fucking madness.
@ he went off the books for that mission
In regards to the cultural differences, in my opinion it's up to the foreigner to understand and adapt to at least the greeting culture of a different country, especially if you're engaging in diplomatic talks in their own country, you can't expect people to behave exactly like you want them to, that's called being entitled and a moron
I don't know if this commentary is supposed to be sarcastic or not. The point he was making was that John was completely nonthreatening, and no culture would interpret his behavior as such. Besides, both the Wakandans and John are in Latvia. Who is obligated to respect the other's greeting culture?
This show was such a horrendous self report. Inordinate amounts of stupidity displayed by the writers.
"I would like to say thanks to Captain America"
"Sit the fuck back down I ain't talking about you; John Walker you a real one"
F&WS is so poorly written that they they forget to make the antagonist antagonistic. They make him too good of a human being for the audience to consider him a bad guy, but he is still treated as a bad guy by the main characters and the meta narrative
John Walker is a better meta character than She-Hulk
By a goddamn MILE.
you realize your show sucks when the character who in theory should be the evil and unworthy one is literally the most reasonable character in the entire series.
Seriously, Walker and Lamar are literally the only characters in this entire series who from the beginning tried to have a dialogue, while everyone else at some point acts like assholes who want everything to be done their way without caring about the consequences of that.
❤ that this is an hour long. Don and John - need a spin-off series where they annihilate Danvers and Karli
John Walker is the single best new character in the MCU since Phase 3 ended, and they don't even realize it because their intention was to treat him like an antagonist, then a joke. It baffles me how you can create such a strong character and not even realize it, then instead lean into your LITERAL TERRORIST. Phase 4, ladies and gentlemen.
The Winter Soldier would have been a credible threat to absolutely everyone in that move. Simultaneously. Of course he lost to god damn sticks and bald.
Steve literally broke off from the Avengers, fought against them and caused untold amounts of irreparable damage to the political landscape and the fate of the world in the MCU just cause Bucky was gonna go to jail.
But John kills an active terrorist (something Steve does quite regularly and with little reason besides the fact that it's his job) after said terrorist absolutely was involved in the murder of Lamar and John is somehow the worst person ever. It's actually baffling how people think that guy was innocent just because he wasn't the one that actually killed Lamar. He was literally the one holding John back so that Karli could murder him. Lamar literally wouldn't be dead if the terrorist guy wasn't holding John back. Lamar wouldn't need to tackle Karli and if he did tackle Karli John would've been about to save him if he wasn't being held back.
What was even their plan after they killed John? You think Lamar wouldn't try to fight them and that they'd be forced to kill him too? Like, they're in active combat and their entire goal is to kill John but, for whatever reason, everybody stops fighting because Lamar dies? Why did they not continue with their goal to kill John? This series is so stupid.
3:35 "We trained her wrong, as a joke"
Like, even falcon acted like the female villain was an better character - while ignoring his shot friend btw-
The fact it's a ginger female is sort of a messed up funny because on one hand, a ton of red heads have races wars and on the other hand, they're suddenly perfect if a specific product calls for it
So proud that my take that he and Zemo were literally the only good characters in this series has aged like fine wine.
Yum, yum!
I was so offended they did Kurt Russels son so dirty, act like hes the bad guy when he did NOTHING WRONG
He's a white man, thus according to Hollywood he MUST be evil... because racism.
In my opinion John walker is the only interesting character that’s been introduced since endgame. He’s the only character I wanted to see more of after a Disney plus show.
13:25 that's the problem with a lot of this. Characters fight like they already read the script, and know for a fact who has script immunity and who doesn't.
I remember the joke being made way back when, in Avengers 1, when Thor brings the hammer down on Captain America. Like "How did he even know he would NOT be turned to mulch?!".
Of course, then it was easily explained away. But when it happens all the time, it becomes very noticeable.
The answer for Avengers 1 is Thor DIDN'T know that for sure, but had good reason to believe that Cap could take it, dodge it, or would defend with his shield because of the preceding fight.
And we do see Cap hiding behind his shield there, and both of them realizing the fight is pointless after that hit causes massive damage to the forest around them.
@hariman7727 well, he had no GOOD reason to expect him to be anything but a normal, albeit brave, human. BUT, he WAS in a battling mood and he always has been presented as, just that kind of character. So, no one questioned it too much, and it was ok.
DON/WALKER 2028
They will make America smile again.
Random string of FATWS hate is uncalled for but accepted
John Walker did nothing wrong
I remember seeing the Just Write video on this scene and being horrified by his take on it which just didn’t make sense.
It seems like for a lot of people the Dora Milajae and Wakanda in general just can’t do anything wrong.
And yet they have. In BP they were about to go on a genocidal war on behalf of some dick just cuz his dad was a brother of their former king, even though he was a traitor for selling weaponry. No one resisted. Not even Michonne. They enslaved the tribes of the past. And they kill anyone that finds them.
Everyone in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier is some different level of Asshole except John Walker and Lamar, they are the only genuinely good people in this entire shit heap.
Jon’s wife was good too, loving and supportive 😅
I will add to the brief mention of Cap's "mistake" in The Winter Soldier being to blow up the 3 Helicarriers and indirectly kill hundreds of innocents that those 3 helicarriers were directly stated in that movie to be used by Hydra to open fire on millions of people across earth to scare the world's countries into submission. Cap did not make a mistake in that movie. It's absolutely regrettable that it caused the deaths of hundreds of innocents (and let's be honest, not everyone on those helicarriers was working for Hydra or even knew what was happening), but calling it a mistake means that it was explicitly the wrong thing to do, but you simply cannot argue that when the organization that openly admits their goal being to remove freedom from the human race to control them through fear and violence is literally seconds away from using those Helicarriers to violently achieve that goal and murder literal millions _in their own words_. Hell, it's literally their attempt to open fire on said millions that caused the destruction of the Helicarriers, but Steve updated their target list to fire on each other right before they opened fire
My boy walker
If the writers were smart they would have given John Walker the super soldier serum so that have the excuse to have him act as more of an antagonist. Since it was already established that when you take the serum you turn into either Red Skull or Captain America, with Bucky being a more neutral option.
40:24 Look at mr. smasher's face here. Why is he surprised one of his opponents died? Are the Flagsmashers ALSO not here to kill anyone, just like the heroes? Why did they bring knives? Are they still somehow unaware Karli is okay with killing people in her crusade? This is so dopey, to make it look like Walker's eventual victim was really an innocent little butterfly who was just defending himself, while he tries to feed families.
To be fair Walker wanting to fight sam is perfectly reasonable given how unnecessarily antagonistic Sam and Bucky had been the entire time
Thus Walker ironicly became the most sympathetic character in the MshitU.
Just to show how easily a scene can be changed by the music playing in the background, I made an edit of the scene where Joh Waler executes that terrorist (starting a couple seconds after the kill itself, just the camera panning shot that shows everyone's reaction) but with the soundtrack from Mass Effect 1's ending scene
John Walker for Falcon. Turn about is fair play.
John Walker took the super soldier serum, and I can't help but notice his head didn't turn into a skull.
It was a new serum introduced into this show where it gives the abilities of a super soldier but doesn't do anything to alter the physical appearance
I think the juxtaposition between John and Sam was that John was trying so much to replicate Steve that it played on his insecurities and took the serum, whereas Sam being inspired by Steve, was meant to be more of a empathetic leader with a focus community. I just don't think the writing quality really helped with that comparison.
I think it could've worked better if it was Bucky and Walker working together. Bucky would hate Walker and think low of him while still feeling guilty from being an assassin for decades, and Walker would be insecure but earnest, yet naive and lacking. And over the series, or movie, they both would grow to be better. But of course that would be too much for Disney.
34:15 Did anybody else notice that the star on John's collarbone switched places here? It also did this on the truck, and in the warehouse after Lemar's death.
But I loved that scen-....hahahaha I couldn't even finish that sentence 🤣🤣
“They have the jurisdiction stone” - based chat
Based Walker
I was hoping for this highlight. Cheers!
Ironically disney showed how certain people actually are despite all their woke bs
Yeah but the reason why you get woke in these circumstances is because it is very wrong to kill (actually you can't so much as attack) someone who surrendered
This whole thing was the definition of doing the right thing or defending yourself, but others around you make out you're the monster.
They wanted us to hate Walker, but he turned out to be one of the most sympathetic and pretty much the best character in all of their TV series
They frame walker in such a negative light that it threw people off when in the finale he’s actually helping people and trying to do good. I don’t think the show even believes walker is a bad guy towards the end since if he was a true villain like they attempted to show he would’ve seeked revenge instead of saving those politicians. He’s a guy basically shoved into an already established group of barely connected people across the globe without any guidance or direction from these people but told to step up and when he does isn’t taken seriously
John Walker is the modern-day Rorschach, except in the modern day, anything less than absolute and total deference to minorities is as bad as Rorschachs genuine racism, misogyny, and homophobia back when he was written. Regardless, they are both flawed characters who, regardless of their flaws, are still trying to do the right thing in a world where everyone is telling them that its wrong
YOU NEED TO DO BETTER SENATOR
"You have to do beter senator!" - "nah!"
"HOW?! We only have so much supplies. Terrorists are stealing and destroying supplies while we're trying to distribute them. People like you are pretending that moralizing and speeching at me helps, when all it does is make YOU feel good for yelling at someone. And nobody's telling us what's wrong, they're only complaining that we're not perfect. So HOW do we do better, huh? Do you have a plan that might help? Organizers? Supplies of food that AREN'T already slated for distribution? YOU need to do more than yelling at others, and actually HELP, you pathetic hypocrite."
It's the compare/contrast tactic. They knew Sam would be a hard sell as "cap" so they needed a side-quest antagonist to reinforce how much better Sam would be by comparison. In theory it's a fine tactic for a writer to use...
but the show was helmed by morons so Walker ended up having the opposite effect. In fairness though... having him share screen time with the obvious choice (Bucky) was also poorly planned
I think Walker will be pretty popular in the Thunderbolts movie... I don't watch trash so you guys will have to let me know ;-)
6:20 That's what an Asari Justicar says, like Samara, to justify their actions, which is obviously wrong, and is something that is clearly opposed by everyone, even the Asari themselves, in Mass Effect 2. Thing is, they did a great job and ME2 is awesome, as opposed to this trash fire.
Exactly! Samara is a terrifying religious zealot and it’s clear that everyone wants her gone as quickly as possible, even though they’re on an Asari world, the Justicars are an Asari establishment and the world operates on Asari rules, so following this show’s logic, Samara is utterly chill and there should be no problems.
And even with Samara KNOWING that she could force her way in, she didn't, hoping some other solution would present itself before having to brute force her way through.
Shepherd thankfully was that solution.
Someone should do a cinema sins style video that just counts the number of diplomatic incidents that are caused by the wakandans. We have to be at double digits at this point
Black Panther 3, Wakanda girlbossed too close to the sun and now they're being invaded for their vibration.
48:09 i always love Fringys "shut up" line delivery here lol
If they made a new Captain America movie starring John Walker, it would just be a good movie
(even though the makers would keep trying to villainize him in it)
38:18 - the show is saying the terrorists are the good guys. Because that's the ultimate message they have basically.
I'ma have to stop 20 minutes in, I am in actual mental anguish right now.
MauLer couldn't show the act so he willed VLC to tism the image so the audience wouldn't be traumatized.
After the Don, Walker is the mcu character that's closer to sainthood
people rewarding this psycho behaviour angers me...
You mean John? He always got punished in the story though. Nobody rewards him.
@@nont18411John? Odd way to spell Falcon. Or were you typing Bucky? Or that freckles bitch?
The fact the writers were trying to make John Walker the villain is so stupid when you have the actual terrorists run by freckle jesus who killed tons of innocent of people, blow up buildings and threaten innocent. Than you have the people in wakanda who acts like tyrants and tried to killed John, bucky, john friend and falcon by touching her shoulder. That psychotic behavior and they want the audience to like them that's insane. The writers are trying to make rhe audiences sympathy with the villains who killed innocent than. They have no moral ground it ridiculous. Especially how they tried to villainize Walker for defending his own life and the same people killed his friend. These writers are not only insane but stupid and I can't believe people bought into this and think good.
Than again these people who writing this would agree that wanda was actually the good guy during doctor strange and wanda vision even though she was a psychopath.
Same with killmoger even though the guy was literally acting like the funny man with the mustache and want to killed people who weren't like him.
Or with shehulk when they made it where bruce life is nothing compared to her because she is a woman and live in "oppression life" even though Bruce was being abused by psychotic father. His mother was killed by his father right in front of him and was abused. Have the military chased him to the ends of the earth to used as a weapon and a experiment as well so bruce can't settle down and if so he has to be alone.Or if he get a slight bit angry he will lose control and the hulk will caused problems for bruce. Or how he is suicidal and trying multiple attempts to end his life but the hulk wouldn't let him or how the people he is around get hurt and the womens he love get killed or he can't be with because of the hulk or someone is always after him like Betty who he can't be with because his dad hates him and is run by the USA military and ia trying to track him down to use as a weapon.
These writers can't tell a story, they don't know how to make them heros or be heroic, they instead characters assignatate them for the most stupid reasons or to push a forced agenda that everyone hates. There up there with people in the comic book industry, the video game industry, the people who made star trek, doctor who, rwby, indian jones and ect. They ruin shows because they are hacks who can't write and only care about there message
it's wild when you watch a show and all you can take away from it is that the writers, in real life, hold the moral position of "everything done by people i like is good, everything done by people i hate is bad."