I was just greated with an Everytown anti-gun ad before I watched this video. I bet that's RUclips's doing. Hey we won't monitize gun channels, but we'll make you watch anti-gun ads on your gun channels.
Of course. The anti-gunners simply won't give up. As soon as they figure out what it would take to change the Second Amendment, they try to interpret it differently. When that fails, they talk about banning "bullets." They mean ammo or cartridges; calling them "bullets" shows how little they actually know.
I always take manufacturer claims with a grain of salt. Their data is collected in a very controlled environment. Also since I have worked in 3 different manufacturing factories I'm familiar with manufacturing tolerances and the rolling changes that can be made on the fly that can change things without the advertiser claims being changed. That's my 2 cents and experience.
My " not as advertised " gripe is all the gun channels and gun magazines that say ( insert new product from advertiser) is the greatest thing ever ,and you need to buy it now!These people are dishonest in that they portray a commercial as an honest unbiased review.
Wolff Zambelli, holy shit. I thought I was the only one who noticed this. I see him as the buddy/friend who has to have the last word in any discussion.
We have to keep in mind that even though the gun community has many great people in it, its still a business and unfortunately money is still the master of all. Cutting corners will always be an issue as long as its hidden. I'm glade you guys are keeping manufacturers honest. Much respect!
When it comes to firearms and not as advertised, first thing i think of is everyone saying their rifle is sub moa and scope mounts that return to zero.
It's so bad that even when two companies collaborate together they get it wrong. Example 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger. Ruger built the set up on 23 inch barrels and 20 inch barrels. Hornady tested originally on 26 inch barrels and now they base the numbers on a 24 inch barrel. Ruger is the only maker of a 416 Ruger rifle and they make a 23 inch and 20 inch barrel... Hornady still tests with unavailable barrel lengths. If you read 338 Lapua numbers.... impressive right... 36 inch barrel to get those numbers. 50bmg... tested on 48 inch barrels.
I buy a lot of .30-30 ammo now, one thing that pisses me off is, they never advertise velocities with the 20" barrel, always the cowboy 24". Who besides a small number of people buy the full length 24" instead of the more common 20" carbine?
@jmalcolmg123 that is fucking stupid. Liberals are always trying to find a way to "get back" at gun owners. I guarantee gun theft will rise if that law is passed. No one will want to report their gun was stolen.
Nobody gonna touch on American made aks? designed to outlast ones from overseas yet they often explode and manufacturers are not accountable apparently.
Recently Nosler rated all of their ABLR bullets to super high b.c.'s then got them doppler verified and had to knock them all down. I know the 142 .264" bullet was at first claimed a .710 G1 and then they knocked it back to .625 after doppler verification.
I've had same issues with 2 guns being ammo sensitive. Believe it or not 1 is a ruger 10/22. I've owned 4 maybe 5 in my day and every 1 had problems with. I could never see the hype. The 2nd gun is a walther p22. It would only shoot certain ammo.
The Fix barrels break in after about a hundred rounds. I was worried about mine at first, but sure enough... started tightening up REAL FAST after about a hundred rounds.
I have had boxes of ammo that should have had the As Seen On TV logo on them. Glad you guys have the time and equipment to do the testing. Between you guys and Hickok, I am getting better at holding off until there is good data.
Can u plz make more 5 guns videos I have a lot of ideas for u 1. Top 5 off the shelf AR15 2. Top 5 off the shelf AK47 3. Top 5 off the shelf 308 4. Top 5 pump action shotguns 5. Top 5 pistol caliber carbines
It's like MPG claims on vehicles. They don't tell you they were going downhill with a tailwind when they rate them. I never get deep enough into fps claims. I'm more of a threshold to do the job guy. I'm not a long range shooter. 100-150 yards 2 moa and I'm okay. Chad is putting in some serious work... Thank you both...
Couldn't agree more ,a very level-headed video. People need to learn to separate want from fact. And also something people never think about, it's not the same gunsmiths that make test products versus final release products, are often made in different factories by different technicians using different machines even though two guys use the same machine doesn't mean they're going to make the same level of perfection.
Slow down with the videos ;p .......I am only on 39.... (I started from the beginning) ( and 150+). I miss Barry :( damned legend, he will be missed.... RIP Barry, GBYS. AB
This video has lent itself well to something I have been asking you guys to do for a while now - 'Top 5 Letdowns / Disappointments'. I'd love to see / hear about the firearms that just didn't live up to the hype or guns you wanted to love but couldn't for whatever reason.
This is why a chronograph belongs in front of your shooting bench when doing load development,ammo testing of any kind, or even just sighting your rifle in. It tells you valuable information!
This is why, when setting up someone's rifle use conograph. Even if I can't spell it! I load my own and it's a pain to get 4 jugs of powder that's same lot number. But finding the load and matching to your set up is piece of heaven. What has happened to white box Winchester rifle and pistol is a shame. Great video!
Washington state Initiative 1639 was just passed restricting the age to purchase a semi auto rifle from 18 to 21, requiring mandatory training, more "comprehensive" background check, a 10 day waiting period and a bunch of other things that take away our rights. One of the other things the initiative states is that it is any person in possession of a semi automatic rifle that is under the age of 21 is basically a criminal now. So i guess that because i bought a .22 Marlin model 60 last weekend makes me a criminal now. This is bad news for us law abiding gun owners.
I really like these guys and the variety of topics they bring to the table. I shoot some F Class and Highpower for years and can't stand when fellow shooters can't admit they don't know everything and be open to something new. Many of the guys will look at the load data during the match and then tell you all the things you're dong wrong...after you've just beaten them all.
In my handgun testing, Federal has the closest to advertised velocity across the board. Speer is a close second. Hornady Critical Defense/Duty is dead on, however their American Gunner line is way way off. Remington is very close to advertised as well. Winchester like Hornady is up and down depending on the line within their company.
BEST gun gripe in awhile. Eric you killed me on the whole sig p365 thing but it couldn't be more straight forward and truthful. Thank you guys for your Honest opinions despite what some say. Tell you the truth i want to see a series callled GUN RAMBLE where you two go off on tangents and just go with it. I know you all try and stay on topic but i love to see what kinds of content could be produced if you guys just go with what ever comes to mind. Maybe jot down a few ideas/topics and build the rest off the top of your heads..
@@dbelex Watch the video from the AK operators union they did one on practical AK accuracy and they were hitting steel at 600 yards all day long. That is plenty accurate for a combat rifle.
Off topic, however I have a question. Can you do a video on a 1MOA, 800-1000 yard rifle, that is a cross between SHTF(affordable ammo, and common ammo) and precision(800- 1000 yard ability depending on shooter) This would essentially be a budget rifle, Mr blue collar can own and still not break the bank.
Barry looks down & smile's , Very Well put Guys !, Facts are Knowledge based on experience & results . The English language is so full of nuance that it can be difficult to state Your meaning without repeating yet still reiterating the facts and Your interpretation of them . Barry knows his com-padres and is happy because his legacy is not being wasted . One of the best Gripe video's yet .Thanks Guys.
We were recently shooting our Mauser K98k with PPU 200grain "match" cartridges. They grouped will at 100y, but then we had to use the 600m rear sight to get it onto the 400yard target. Turns out the round was going vastly slower than the ones the Wehrmacht used, but PPU lowered the charge SIGNIFICANTLY.
9-Hole Reviews There happens to be a reasonable explanation for this. The original bore diameter for 8mm Mauser was .318. The Germans later changed to a .323 bore. Since there are still older guns out there with the smaller bore, SAAMI pressure specs are way lower than the original cartridge would have been in order to prevent dangerous pressures when shooting modern .323 diameter projectiles in a. 318 bore rifle. At least that is my understanding. Hopefully this helps.
John Spivey they also tend to run something like a .321 bullet in the loadings so you can squeeze the bullet down the early bore. But it really hurts accuracy in the .323 bores.
The challenge I have with using RUclips gun channels to help make firearms decisions is that a) I don't shoot as well as some of them, b) I don't have the same level of access to manufacturers as do some of them, c) I don't have the same level of access to ammo and ammo manufacturers as do some of them, and d) I have neither the time nor money to spend as much time on the range as do some of them. For these reasons I find it sometimes necessary to either make my decisions without adequate data, or to trust what I see and hear on a RUclips gun channel. Since I don't always know to what degree the gun channel's data contains bias, I'm not always comfortable using data that I see on RUclips.
28:35 that is a whole can of worms with air rifles. Different rifles like different pellets, not just different models but individual air rifles. Sorting and weighing the pellets is good yes but so is washing them, drying them and lubricating them.
Many many times what is on the box was done with special equipment at the factory. If one were to check out a reloading manual you would see they list type of firearm,twist,and barrel length. Other variables are temperature,humidity,barometric pressure etc. Something to consider before critiqueing.
Nice talk guys, very informative and legit gripes. Bottom line, ballistics is a very inexact study and can be frustrating. The barrel lengths used to test ammo velocities is my number 1 pet peve. I have never seen a published test barrel less than 20" in 5.56,223.
I purchased an AR15. It definitely did not perform as advertised. I was told that it would be able to disperse a 30 magazine clip in half a second with a shoulder thing that goes up. When I took it out to use it, it neither had a shoulder thing that goes up nor did it even come close to a 30 magazine clip in half a second.
I had an issue with Buffalo Bore a few years back when there was a real problem finding 380acp ammo. I ordered some that claimed to be a bonded bullet, the pictures showed a Gold Dot bullet and that's what they were in the past when I got the same thing. Without changing the pic or description they went to a cheaper looking bullet that I don't think was bonded. After that I decided to buy elsewhere. On the other end of the spectrum Underwood ammo almost always seems to run as fast or faster than what they advertise. They are my new carry ammo company for most of my guns.
That is why I don't like or want ballistic reticles in my scopes. I see these hold-overs for 300, 500, 800 yds and have to think...what ammo, what powder charge, what weapon, how long was the barrel to acquire these settings? It's not like you can change the hold-over etchings in the scope. Give me a simple Christmas Tree mildot reticle so I can work out which points are the correct hold-overs or wind drift points with my rifle and my own ammo.
Colonel Panic my thoughts exactly. Why would you want that when you can just get a mil or moa reticle and work up a drop chart for holdover. That is too much work for some people these days though.
I have a bushnell 4.5-18 drop zone .223 (was on the rifle when I bought it) and with my hand loads out of my 22" barrel is hitting where it needs to at 300 yards. (Haven't shot further than that) I'm in South East kansas and with the trees and small hills we have everywhere it's hard/impossible to shoot much further than that in any hunting situation. I would never buy another scope like it but for the price and me personally knowing who I bought it from with the loading data. I got a hell of a deal on it.
@@thedealerofdeath100 I have the same scope and I zeroed it at 100yds. With Hornady 75gn hpbt.and IMR 8208 XBR hand loads. I'm Hitting a 20" gong at 500 with the BDC. The BDC on this scope works very well if you set it up correctly. A nice scope for the money. It sits on top of my 20" custom build AR-15. I built this rifle 3 years ago and the cheapest thing on the rifle is the scope. The scope does it job very well. I have contemplated replacing it, but I built a 6.5 CreedMoor and put a Night Force scope on it. I'm still paying the scope off, LOL
That is why the Barrett .50bmg BORS sight used to cost as much as the rifle! If it is made specifically for the combo it costs a fortune. Especially when it actually is effective. They are still 1500-2000 for the computer and 2500 for a compatible scope. Still not exactly cheap but better than 10 grand. Lol
I just bought a Ruger Guide Gun and wow did I watch everything I could, read everything etc... I originally wanted the Kawkeye African but after all the research I got the shorter Guide Gun and I just absolutely love it.
"It Makes You Wonder", "No Bull Crap", "Super Sonic" ,or combination thereof shirts... 1%. I really enjoy this channel. ohh yeah,, "Get with the Program". OMG you guys are awesome!
Load your own ammo. Heck, sometimes different lots of the same powder can produce different velocities. Reload and you'll never have to worry about the availability of any factory loading. I've had factory 22 Hornet ammo that damn near blew the primers OUT! The primers were sticking 1/16th of an inch out the back of the case. After that the only factory ammo I've bought has been rimfire and some of my shotshells. I've loaded some hot stuff that blew a hole in the primer, but I never had one of my own make the primer stick out.
Omg please make a video on that I am looking at making one of those myself it just seems like a super versatile round. I'm really excited about this caliber I feel like it's a really good jack of all trades round.
I probably watched sootch M&P 2.0 compact video 20 times before I put my hands on one and I walked out with it and carry them everyday and I’ve put 3,000 rounds through it in the 5 months I’ve owned it and I love it only complaint is the finish comes off very easy
I know yall have limited time and probably would piss off a lot of industry people but you could consider making these examples part of a series. This is good stuff for those of us that haven't invested the money in testing equipment.
Well if you ask for the riffle specs in the data on box you might as well ask the climate, temp, and environmental conditions as well. I live in NY and when I develop a load for hunting I can in some calibers drop 100fps just from summer to winter, there is no way to gauge it to be all that close on the box.
My usual experience with ammunition makers when asking about technical aspects of their product is the dodge answer of, "that is proprietary information"
I have an ancient Chrony chronograph bought for the princely sum of $65 when they were first offered for sale. Using my Chrony, an Oehler with sky screens and some unknown brand of chrono we found with any given ammo there was about 7 to 8 feet per second between the three devices. This about equaled the SD on various ammo. This shut up the folks saying the less expensive chronographs were not any good.
The only difference between goofing around and science is writing things down.... I'd say you guys do a good job, and I value your videos because i find them to be trustworthy. Thanks for all the content Eric and Chad!
This is gonna be off topic, but I'm desperate lol..I have an AR-15 with a .223 wylde barrel and a .223/5.56 BCG...what gauges should I use to check headspace? Plz
I jumped into the 224 Valkyrie as well. As my 1st rifle and a 1st reloader. I bought a craddock, Bartlein in 6.5 twist rate and was excited. I was completely let down. Sub moa was possible but not consistently. I did my research and it just wasn't worth it. I, like many just felt the 223 was anemic and struggled, but it can handle more pressure. At best the valkyrie can achieve 100-140fps over the .223. and it's just not worth it. I now have a 6mm AR and dies, from arperformance, as I could not get in touch with Robert Whitley. I haven't assembled it yet but wondering if it's worth it or I should just sell it. Or give it to yall for testing.
Maybe you can help me answer a question I have about some internal ballistics. I am a student of external ballistics but not internal. I load a .35 Whelen with 4064 powder to push a 225 grain bullet to an average of 2816 fps. This is not a max. load. In my 30-06 which uses the same case 4064 powder is not even listed as a propellant for a heavy bullet such as a 220 grain and slower powders such as 4350, 4831, RL 19 and 22 are some of the ones listed producing a much slower velocity. Why?
Try those 90g .224 rounds at 300+ yards in that 1:7 barrel, I bet the group size shrinks. Long for caliber bullets can take more time to stabilize, but I'm glad the 1:6.5 worked for you
huh... I'm super interested to know why you guys both think Glocks don't suppress well. Any chance you could make a quick video elaborating on this point? I've been saving up for my dream gun...a G26 with a threaded barrel so, any insight you can give that might save me some pain would really be appreciated x
whats the deal with bullet weight and twist rate. ive heard from several people its not about weight its length of round (which i dont think is true) then theres the 1:7 is crap for 5.56 non tracers, as well as the longer the round the less twist you need. any clarification on this from your guys experience?
I've been telling customers for years that most any rifle on the rack will shoot into 1/2 inch with good ammo. Many reject this information while claiming only certain brands and models will achieve this accuracy. They spend thousands and shooting next to them--my everyday Savage shoots groups just as small. Thanks for verifying my ideas!
Eric how is your Ruger precision rifle doing now? I have a Ruger precision rifle Gen 2 in 308 Winchester and at best it's 1 Moa. And that's with hand loaded ammunition. Not really pleased on an $1,100 rifle. Was wondering if you have any new videos on that particular rifle? Or if you could possibly do 1? Thanks again.
Eric might I ask what you think of this barrel? At 90 degrees my 11.5” barrel (Columbia River Arms) pops 77 grain pills (store bought) at 2500fps using a V3 magnetospeed chrono.
I have the fix in 308 and it shoots really well with 175 and 168 FGMM. I hear there were some issues with the bartlein barrels. You want a sample of 2? I'm local to you guys.
Funny thing about suppressors. In my shooter-hating country, Sweden, basically every firearm now comes as a package with a suppressor. Strange how things can change. Probably a health and safety. Environment and "Whoa! The movies lied to me?!"
This video is almost a year old now and I have to say it would de a major disservice to the private consumers in the firearms community to end this kinda content I have learned a whole hell of a lot of things in regards to firearms related stuff that I would have never ever known otherwise and that a major tool in my arsenal when going to purchased new firearms and components
Hey Eric and Chad not sure if you’ve done this gripe or not but you should do one on selling and trading guns do’s and dont’s. I’m having a hard time letting go of guns for something else I really want and I have a couple buddies who wish they would have kept all of their guns. Nice video👌🏽
What you are talking about can be summed up in one word, integrity. That's why I watch your channel and others. That's also why I've dropped other channels because they lack that same integrity you show. You can't be afraid to offend. That's going to happen if you're honest.
Selier & Bellot pumps their numbers up using long barrels. Example 124 gr 9mm fmj 1181 fps from a 6 inch barrel. Not many people own a 6 inch 9mm like a Glock 17L.
I wish a factory company would standardize the .357 ultimate Magnum rimless. It's a 5.56 that's not necked down. As an Iowan that can't shoot a necked down cartridge for deer hunting, is love that.
So I found that the issue with listed velocities is more about knowing what they test with. Most companies don't make that information easy to find. Hornady, for example, lists their test weapons for each cartridge, including make, model, and barrel length in their reloading manual. I find that their published velocities track very closely with similar real-world firearms. Other companies don't even list barrel length, so their velocities are a crap shoot.
Chad, you may want to check your blood pressure after discussing suppressor data! Thanks man for going through all that for us out here in RUclipsLand. As long as you and Eric keep making videos this Texan will keep watching....
weird about the RPR, a friend of mine bought one, at the same time me and second friend build rifles for 1000 yard shooting. The RPR has stood shot for shot with both of our guns, and seems to like a wider variety of ammo while maintaining accuracy. This was all in 308 if that matters? And yes I know their are better cartridges for shooting at that range then 308, but 308 can do it, and we have other reasons for picking 308.
Excellent video. Best thing in the world, honesty. Having a true standard makes all the difference and like you said, most of us don't have the money and equipment so we have to trust people like you guys. Love that rifle you got there on the table. Specs?
I'll never touch anything made by Federal EVER again. 3 times I've had MAJOR issues across all type of ammo(rifle, pistol, and shotgun ammo). Called them multiple times and basically got laughed at and told it was my gun. NEVER again. Just my opinion.
I was just greated with an Everytown anti-gun ad before I watched this video. I bet that's RUclips's doing. Hey we won't monitize gun channels, but we'll make you watch anti-gun ads on your gun channels.
Watch it. Iv8888 gets more if you watch the ad.
In a way, it's a good thing that Everytown is spending their money on people like us who can see through their B.S.
@@Jbroker404 I don't know, that ad kinda put me on the fence. I used to be pro-guns, but now I'm not so sure. Be careful with those ads, people!
So fitting that their money is going to support Eric and Chad! That and the fact their ads are absolutely wasted on us.
Of course. The anti-gunners simply won't give up. As soon as they figure out what it would take to change the Second Amendment, they try to interpret it differently. When that fails, they talk about banning "bullets." They mean ammo or cartridges; calling them "bullets" shows how little they actually know.
I always take manufacturer claims with a grain of salt. Their data is collected in a very controlled environment.
Also since I have worked in 3 different manufacturing factories I'm familiar with manufacturing tolerances and the rolling changes that can be made on the fly that can change things without the advertiser claims being changed.
That's my 2 cents and experience.
Thats where you topped out?
My " not as advertised " gripe is all the gun channels and gun magazines that say ( insert new product from advertiser) is the greatest thing ever ,and you need to buy it now!These people are dishonest in that they portray a commercial as an honest unbiased review.
Eric....its ok to let Chad finish a sentence once and awhile....
lol !!!
Eric is pretty relaxed, and after all it is his show. I see chad as the one who can not sit still, just watch him while Eric is talking.
But not to often or he may get used to it
Wolff Zambelli, holy shit. I thought I was the only one who noticed this. I see him as the buddy/friend who has to have the last word in any discussion.
Not Barry can talk if And only if he somehow stops being not Barry and starts being Barry.till then he can shut right the fuck up.
We have to keep in mind that even though the gun community has many great people in it, its still a business and unfortunately money is still the master of all. Cutting corners will always be an issue as long as its hidden. I'm glade you guys are keeping manufacturers honest. Much respect!
When it comes to firearms and not as advertised, first thing i think of is everyone saying their rifle is sub moa and scope mounts that return to zero.
It's so bad that even when two companies collaborate together they get it wrong. Example 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger. Ruger built the set up on 23 inch barrels and 20 inch barrels. Hornady tested originally on 26 inch barrels and now they base the numbers on a 24 inch barrel.
Ruger is the only maker of a 416 Ruger rifle and they make a 23 inch and 20 inch barrel... Hornady still tests with unavailable barrel lengths.
If you read 338 Lapua numbers.... impressive right... 36 inch barrel to get those numbers. 50bmg... tested on 48 inch barrels.
Wtf was the 50 cal mounted on? Anti-air?
Yes sir! Velocity is King, until you actually chronograph the load. A big reason why I reload.
I buy a lot of .30-30 ammo now, one thing that pisses me off is, they never advertise velocities with the 20" barrel, always the cowboy 24". Who besides a small number of people buy the full length 24" instead of the more common 20" carbine?
Get a dam chronograph,,stop whining.
VOTE NO!!!! ON I-1639 IN WA STATE.
What is l-1639? I don't live in WA state. I'm just curious.
@jmalcolmg123 Why would anyone vote for that?
Larry Brantley liberals
Please for the love of all that is holy vote no!
@jmalcolmg123 that is fucking stupid. Liberals are always trying to find a way to "get back" at gun owners. I guarantee gun theft will rise if that law is passed. No one will want to report their gun was stolen.
Nobody gonna touch on American made aks? designed to outlast ones from overseas yet they often explode and manufacturers are not accountable apparently.
If you buy an American made ak you got bigger problems friend.
Hahaha
Palmetto State Armory G2 passed AK Operators Union 5000 round test.
Palmetto saved it
So I am not crazy! cant wait to bring this up in my therapy session.
"And that's the bottom line! " "whooooooo! "~ Rick Flair ... and apparently now Eric
Hickock's 80 yard gong.....LOL!
That was funny Chad. That gong is as big as a barrel lid.
bud1014 The gong is legend, lol.
I really appreciate you guys and enjoy your interaction as a team. And how you mentioned Hickok who is fun to watch shoot at things!
Recently Nosler rated all of their ABLR bullets to super high b.c.'s then got them doppler verified and had to knock them all down. I know the 142 .264" bullet was at first claimed a .710 G1 and then they knocked it back to .625 after doppler verification.
This is rampant in the airgun world. Especially in the lower end stuff. Lots of guys get baited in by marketing wank.
I've had same issues with 2 guns being ammo sensitive. Believe it or not 1 is a ruger 10/22. I've owned 4 maybe 5 in my day and every 1 had problems with. I could never see the hype. The 2nd gun is a walther p22. It would only shoot certain ammo.
The Fix barrels break in after about a hundred rounds. I was worried about mine at first, but sure enough... started tightening up REAL FAST after about a hundred rounds.
I have had boxes of ammo that should have had the As Seen On TV logo on them. Glad you guys have the time and equipment to do the testing. Between you guys and Hickok, I am getting better at holding off until there is good data.
Can u plz make more 5 guns videos I have a lot of ideas for u
1. Top 5 off the shelf AR15
2. Top 5 off the shelf AK47
3. Top 5 off the shelf 308
4. Top 5 pump action shotguns
5. Top 5 pistol caliber carbines
I'll watch RUclips reviews before I make a purchase. Even if it's just a $20 item
It's like MPG claims on vehicles. They don't tell you they were going downhill with a tailwind when they rate them. I never get deep enough into fps claims. I'm more of a threshold to do the job guy. I'm not a long range shooter. 100-150 yards 2 moa and I'm okay. Chad is putting in some serious work... Thank you both...
Couldn't agree more ,a very level-headed video. People need to learn to separate want from fact. And also something people never think about, it's not the same gunsmiths that make test products versus final release products, are often made in different factories by different technicians using different machines even though two guys use the same machine doesn't mean they're going to make the same level of perfection.
2 gun gripes and a fudd lore all within 2 weeks!!! Keep the podcasts style videos coming. They're some of my favorites!
Slow down with the videos ;p .......I am only on 39.... (I started from the beginning) ( and 150+).
I miss Barry :( damned legend, he will be missed.... RIP Barry, GBYS.
AB
This video has lent itself well to something I have been asking you guys to do for a while now - 'Top 5 Letdowns / Disappointments'. I'd love to see / hear about the firearms that just didn't live up to the hype or guns you wanted to love but couldn't for whatever reason.
This is why a chronograph belongs in front of your shooting bench when doing load development,ammo testing of any kind, or even just sighting your rifle in. It tells you valuable information!
What about altitude ETC. with the ammo? It's not all the manufacturer. It would be nice to have different barrel lengths with more information
This is why, when setting up someone's rifle use conograph. Even if I can't spell it! I load my own and it's a pain to get 4 jugs of powder that's same lot number. But finding the load and matching to your set up is piece of heaven. What has happened to white box Winchester rifle and pistol is a shame. Great video!
Washington state Initiative 1639 was just passed restricting the age to purchase a semi auto rifle from 18 to 21, requiring mandatory training, more "comprehensive" background check, a 10 day waiting period and a bunch of other things that take away our rights. One of the other things the initiative states is that it is any person in possession of a semi automatic rifle that is under the age of 21 is basically a criminal now. So i guess that because i bought a .22 Marlin model 60 last weekend makes me a criminal now.
This is bad news for us law abiding gun owners.
The only way WA can pass gun control is to put it on the ballet....
I really like these guys and the variety of topics they bring to the table. I shoot some F Class and Highpower for years and can't stand when fellow shooters can't admit they don't know everything and be open to something new. Many of the guys will look at the load data during the match and then tell you all the things you're dong wrong...after you've just beaten them all.
In my handgun testing, Federal has the closest to advertised velocity across the board. Speer is a close second. Hornady Critical Defense/Duty is dead on, however their American Gunner line is way way off. Remington is very close to advertised as well. Winchester like Hornady is up and down depending on the line within their company.
BEST gun gripe in awhile. Eric you killed me on the whole sig p365 thing but it couldn't be more straight forward and truthful. Thank you guys for your Honest opinions despite what some say. Tell you the truth i want to see a series callled GUN RAMBLE where you two go off on tangents and just go with it. I know you all try and stay on topic but i love to see what kinds of content could be produced if you guys just go with what ever comes to mind. Maybe jot down a few ideas/topics and build the rest off the top of your heads..
I'm eagerly waiting for 7.62x39 accuracy vid.
Really, I'm waiting for Jesus to return.... it's not going to happen. 7.62x39 will never be accurate.
@@dbelex mista troll
@@dbelex Watch the video from the AK operators union they did one on practical AK accuracy and they were hitting steel at 600 yards all day long. That is plenty accurate for a combat rifle.
@@dbelex The round is fine. It's your shooting that sucks.
Off topic, however I have a question.
Can you do a video on a 1MOA, 800-1000 yard rifle, that is a cross between SHTF(affordable ammo, and common ammo) and precision(800- 1000 yard ability depending on shooter)
This would essentially be a budget rifle, Mr blue collar can own and still not break the bank.
FINALLY! Someone speaking to truth in advertising! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Barry looks down & smile's , Very Well put Guys !, Facts are Knowledge based on experience & results . The English language is so full of nuance that it can be difficult to state Your meaning without repeating yet still reiterating the facts and Your interpretation of them . Barry knows his com-padres and is happy because his legacy is not being wasted . One of the best Gripe video's yet .Thanks Guys.
We were recently shooting our Mauser K98k with PPU 200grain "match" cartridges. They grouped will at 100y, but then we had to use the 600m rear sight to get it onto the 400yard target. Turns out the round was going vastly slower than the ones the Wehrmacht used, but PPU lowered the charge SIGNIFICANTLY.
9-Hole Reviews There happens to be a reasonable explanation for this. The original bore diameter for 8mm Mauser was .318. The Germans later changed to a .323 bore. Since there are still older guns out there with the smaller bore, SAAMI pressure specs are way lower than the original cartridge would have been in order to prevent dangerous pressures when shooting modern .323 diameter projectiles in a. 318 bore rifle. At least that is my understanding. Hopefully this helps.
John Spivey that does! Thank you.
@@9HoleReviews Glad to be able to help!
John Spivey they also tend to run something like a .321 bullet in the loadings so you can squeeze the bullet down the early bore. But it really hurts accuracy in the .323 bores.
The challenge I have with using RUclips gun channels to help make firearms decisions is that a) I don't shoot as well as some of them, b) I don't have the same level of access to manufacturers as do some of them, c) I don't have the same level of access to ammo and ammo manufacturers as do some of them, and d) I have neither the time nor money to spend as much time on the range as do some of them. For these reasons I find it sometimes necessary to either make my decisions without adequate data, or to trust what I see and hear on a RUclips gun channel. Since I don't always know to what degree the gun channel's data contains bias, I'm not always comfortable using data that I see on RUclips.
Always watch your reviews.... no BS..you know what you're doing and tell it straight as you see it. One could ask no more... 🙂
28:35 that is a whole can of worms with air rifles. Different rifles like different pellets, not just different models but individual air rifles. Sorting and weighing the pellets is good yes but so is washing them, drying them and lubricating them.
Many many times what is on the box was done with special equipment at the factory. If one were to check out a reloading manual you would see they list type of firearm,twist,and barrel length. Other variables are temperature,humidity,barometric pressure etc. Something to consider before critiqueing.
That suppressor issue is why I like that OSS shows us their testing to the CSASS standards
Nice talk guys, very informative and legit gripes. Bottom line, ballistics is a very inexact study and can be frustrating. The barrel lengths used to test ammo velocities is my number 1 pet peve. I have never seen a published test barrel less than 20" in 5.56,223.
I purchased an AR15. It definitely did not perform as advertised. I was told that it would be able to disperse a 30 magazine clip in half a second with a shoulder thing that goes up. When I took it out to use it, it neither had a shoulder thing that goes up nor did it even come close to a 30 magazine clip in half a second.
I had an issue with Buffalo Bore a few years back when there was a real problem finding 380acp ammo. I ordered some that claimed to be a bonded bullet, the pictures showed a Gold Dot bullet and that's what they were in the past when I got the same thing. Without changing the pic or description they went to a cheaper looking bullet that I don't think was bonded. After that I decided to buy elsewhere. On the other end of the spectrum Underwood ammo almost always seems to run as fast or faster than what they advertise. They are my new carry ammo company for most of my guns.
That is why I don't like or want ballistic reticles in my scopes. I see these hold-overs for 300, 500, 800 yds and have to think...what ammo, what powder charge, what weapon, how long was the barrel to acquire these settings? It's not like you can change the hold-over etchings in the scope. Give me a simple Christmas Tree mildot reticle so I can work out which points are the correct hold-overs or wind drift points with my rifle and my own ammo.
Colonel Panic my thoughts exactly. Why would you want that when you can just get a mil or moa reticle and work up a drop chart for holdover. That is too much work for some people these days though.
I have a bushnell 4.5-18 drop zone .223 (was on the rifle when I bought it) and with my hand loads out of my 22" barrel is hitting where it needs to at 300 yards. (Haven't shot further than that) I'm in South East kansas and with the trees and small hills we have everywhere it's hard/impossible to shoot much further than that in any hunting situation. I would never buy another scope like it but for the price and me personally knowing who I bought it from with the loading data. I got a hell of a deal on it.
They are good reference points.
@@thedealerofdeath100 I have the same scope and I zeroed it at 100yds. With Hornady 75gn hpbt.and IMR 8208 XBR hand loads. I'm Hitting a 20" gong at 500 with the BDC. The BDC on this scope works very well if you set it up correctly. A nice scope for the money. It sits on top of my 20" custom build AR-15. I built this rifle 3 years ago and the cheapest thing on the rifle is the scope. The scope does it job very well. I have contemplated replacing it, but I built a 6.5 CreedMoor and put a Night Force scope on it. I'm still paying the scope off, LOL
That is why the Barrett .50bmg BORS sight used to cost as much as the rifle! If it is made specifically for the combo it costs a fortune. Especially when it actually is effective. They are still 1500-2000 for the computer and 2500 for a compatible scope. Still not exactly cheap but better than 10 grand. Lol
I just bought a Ruger Guide Gun and wow did I watch everything I could, read everything etc... I originally wanted the Kawkeye African but after all the research I got the shorter Guide Gun and I just absolutely love it.
I listen to Gun Gripes like a pod cast. What's cool is you can just listen and not need to see the screen, on most gripes.
"It Makes You Wonder", "No Bull Crap", "Super Sonic" ,or combination thereof shirts... 1%. I really enjoy this channel. ohh yeah,, "Get with the Program". OMG you guys are awesome!
This video is like something i experienced with Hornady 65 creedmore in a semi automatic platform brass was to long and would not chamber
Love you guys test the stuff, so i know what is worth buying and what is not worth spending my cash. 😉👍
I like Chad’s shirt design, are you selling them?
(Keep up the good work guys!)
Load your own ammo. Heck, sometimes different lots of the same powder can produce different velocities. Reload and you'll never have to worry about the availability of any factory loading. I've had factory 22 Hornet ammo that damn near blew the primers OUT! The primers were sticking 1/16th of an inch out the back of the case. After that the only factory ammo I've bought has been rimfire and some of my shotshells. I've loaded some hot stuff that blew a hole in the primer, but I never had one of my own make the primer stick out.
Chad the 6mm Grendel you're working on is going to put the Valk to shame!
Omg please make a video on that I am looking at making one of those myself it just seems like a super versatile round. I'm really excited about this caliber I feel like it's a really good jack of all trades round.
I probably watched sootch M&P 2.0 compact video 20 times before I put my hands on one and I walked out with it and carry them everyday and I’ve put 3,000 rounds through it in the 5 months I’ve owned it and I love it only complaint is the finish comes off very easy
You guys are truly great. I will always take your advice over others. Thanks for your extremely informative videos!
I know yall have limited time and probably would piss off a lot of industry people but you could consider making these examples part of a series. This is good stuff for those of us that haven't invested the money in testing equipment.
Well if you ask for the riffle specs in the data on box you might as well ask the climate, temp, and environmental conditions as well. I live in NY and when I develop a load for hunting I can in some calibers drop 100fps just from summer to winter, there is no way to gauge it to be all that close on the box.
My usual experience with ammunition makers when asking about technical aspects of their product is the dodge answer of, "that is proprietary information"
I have an ancient Chrony chronograph bought for the princely sum of $65 when they were first offered for sale. Using my Chrony, an Oehler with sky screens and some unknown brand of chrono we found with any given ammo there was about 7 to 8 feet per second between the three devices. This about equaled the SD on various ammo. This shut up the folks saying the less expensive chronographs were not any good.
The only difference between goofing around and science is writing things down.... I'd say you guys do a good job, and I value your videos because i find them to be trustworthy. Thanks for all the content Eric and Chad!
This is gonna be off topic, but I'm desperate lol..I have an AR-15 with a .223 wylde barrel and a .223/5.56 BCG...what gauges should I use to check headspace? Plz
I jumped into the 224 Valkyrie as well. As my 1st rifle and a 1st reloader. I bought a craddock, Bartlein in 6.5 twist rate and was excited. I was completely let down. Sub moa was possible but not consistently. I did my research and it just wasn't worth it. I, like many just felt the 223 was anemic and struggled, but it can handle more pressure. At best the valkyrie can achieve 100-140fps over the .223. and it's just not worth it. I now have a 6mm AR and dies, from arperformance, as I could not get in touch with Robert Whitley. I haven't assembled it yet but wondering if it's worth it or I should just sell it. Or give it to yall for testing.
Maybe you can help me answer a question I have about some internal ballistics. I am a student of external ballistics but not internal. I load a .35 Whelen with 4064 powder to push a 225 grain bullet to an average of 2816 fps. This is not a max. load. In my 30-06 which uses the same case 4064 powder is not even listed as a propellant for a heavy bullet such as a 220 grain and slower powders such as 4350, 4831, RL 19 and 22 are some of the ones listed producing a much slower velocity. Why?
Try those 90g .224 rounds at 300+ yards in that 1:7 barrel, I bet the group size shrinks. Long for caliber bullets can take more time to stabilize, but I'm glad the 1:6.5 worked for you
huh... I'm super interested to know why you guys both think Glocks don't suppress well.
Any chance you could make a quick video elaborating on this point? I've been saving up for my dream gun...a G26 with a threaded barrel so, any insight you can give that might save me some pain would really be appreciated x
whats the deal with bullet weight and twist rate. ive heard from several people its not about weight its length of round (which i dont think is true) then theres the 1:7 is crap for 5.56 non tracers, as well as the longer the round the less twist you need. any clarification on this from your guys experience?
I've been telling customers for years that most any rifle on the rack will shoot into 1/2 inch with good ammo. Many reject this information while claiming only certain brands and models will achieve this accuracy. They spend thousands and shooting next to them--my everyday Savage shoots groups just as small. Thanks for verifying my ideas!
Eric how is your Ruger precision rifle doing now? I have a Ruger precision rifle Gen 2 in 308 Winchester and at best it's 1 Moa. And that's with hand loaded ammunition. Not really pleased on an $1,100 rifle. Was wondering if you have any new videos on that particular rifle? Or if you could possibly do 1? Thanks again.
Thank you guys for the awesome video I learn a lot from this channel and I'm currently in SDI so I can be a gunsmith I can't wait
Eric might I ask what you think of this barrel? At 90 degrees my 11.5” barrel (Columbia River Arms) pops 77 grain pills (store bought) at 2500fps using a V3 magnetospeed chrono.
I have the fix in 308 and it shoots really well with 175 and 168 FGMM. I hear there were some issues with the bartlein barrels. You want a sample of 2? I'm local to you guys.
I recently built an ar pistol with a 7.5" barrel with a 1/7 twist chambered 5.56. what kind of velocities am I looking at with 55gr ammo?
You should put these gun gripes on podcast iTunes. I would love to listen to this while driving to & from work or in general while driving.
Funny thing about suppressors.
In my shooter-hating country, Sweden, basically every firearm now comes as a package with a suppressor.
Strange how things can change.
Probably a health and safety. Environment and "Whoa! The movies lied to me?!"
This video is almost a year old now and I have to say it would de a major disservice to the private consumers in the firearms community to end this kinda content I have learned a whole hell of a lot of things in regards to firearms related stuff that I would have never ever known otherwise and that a major tool in my arsenal when going to purchased new firearms and components
Tech tip: Set the video to 144p quality if you want to watch as a podcast and save data.
Al P thanks, PEASANT. lol
Great video, please nerd out more on velocities, barrel lengths, suppressor data, accuracy, etc.
Best gun related video I've been able to watch in years! Great job fellas!
Ok guys.. I am looking for the baseball bat review.. Is that a M1Louisville slugger behind you? And is it California compliant? Just askin..
The reason why they test with bolt actions is to reduce the variables for the test. They should specify the barrel length and rifling though.
Hey Eric and Chad not sure if you’ve done this gripe or not but you should do one on selling and trading guns do’s and dont’s. I’m having a hard time letting go of guns for something else I really want and I have a couple buddies who wish they would have kept all of their guns. Nice video👌🏽
I have a Trijicon MRO same issue. Will they still fix this problem for $48? Keep up the good work guys.
What you are talking about can be summed up in one word, integrity. That's why I watch your channel and others. That's also why I've dropped other channels because they lack that same integrity you show. You can't be afraid to offend. That's going to happen if you're honest.
Chad give us a video on suppressor data and how they rank up would love to see it...love the channel
Thanks for every share of yours. i wish we had people like yours here in germany. if our fundamentals where like these in USA
Selier & Bellot pumps their numbers up using long barrels. Example 124 gr 9mm fmj 1181 fps from a 6 inch barrel. Not many people own a 6 inch 9mm like a Glock 17L.
Im looking to get my for 22 can, what would you recommend for best overall db reduction & tone??
I wish a factory company would standardize the .357 ultimate Magnum rimless. It's a 5.56 that's not necked down. As an Iowan that can't shoot a necked down cartridge for deer hunting, is love that.
So I found that the issue with listed velocities is more about knowing what they test with. Most companies don't make that information easy to find. Hornady, for example, lists their test weapons for each cartridge, including make, model, and barrel length in their reloading manual. I find that their published velocities track very closely with similar real-world firearms. Other companies don't even list barrel length, so their velocities are a crap shoot.
Chad, you may want to check your blood pressure after discussing suppressor data!
Thanks man for going through all that for us out here in RUclipsLand.
As long as you and Eric keep making videos this Texan will keep watching....
weird about the RPR, a friend of mine bought one, at the same time me and second friend build rifles for 1000 yard shooting. The RPR has stood shot for shot with both of our guns, and seems to like a wider variety of ammo while maintaining accuracy. This was all in 308 if that matters? And yes I know their are better cartridges for shooting at that range then 308, but 308 can do it, and we have other reasons for picking 308.
Excellent video. Best thing in the world, honesty. Having a true standard makes all the difference and like you said, most of us don't have the money and equipment so we have to trust people like you guys. Love that rifle you got there on the table. Specs?
BTW, your email sign up page says page not found. Tried twice.
My morning is going so well and this just made it better. Thanks for making my morning :)
I'll never touch anything made by Federal EVER again. 3 times I've had MAJOR issues across all type of ammo(rifle, pistol, and shotgun ammo). Called them multiple times and basically got laughed at and told it was my gun. NEVER again. Just my opinion.
Vote with your $
Great video lads. I often wonder why chads always scribbling in a notebook while being surrounded by kit.. It's good to see you day your piece.
A man should never have to apologize for honesty. And if you don't understand that, this channel isn't for you.
I think buffalo bore is one of only a few to actually use a legit test firearm in their stats. For 460s&w they used the same 8 3/8" revolver as I had.