Aviation: Captain lost of situation awareness during approach
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 янв 2011
- The lost of situation awareness of the captain during this approach in a simulator. Very interesting to see how a flight can become dangerous and how CRM and how a briefing can be important! The First Officer is always suggesting, he is doing a great job before taking over the controls.
I love it, I'm not a pilot but I can tell the Captain is pouring honeyed words into the FO's ear, trying to lull him into a sense of security, and almost begging to be challenged. Casual chatter and that nonchalant familiarity with the route...very well played.
Fancy a cup of tea while i fly into that hill over there.
jolly good idea captain
ask, suggest, insist, take action.
Sterile cockpit (no nightclub talk), at the very least from the ILS final approach fix (say 3000' above ground and around 10 nm). IFR all the way until clear on position and when visibility conditions are met (even for Cat 3). WELL DONE the training captain during this simulator practice session, playing the role of both a confident and confused commander, giving the F/O the confidence to take the initiative and take over flying the aircraft, thereby overcoming any command gradient fears which might have existed.
The captain simulated it so well !!! Good job F/O !!!
You so dumb..it's the co pilot who took control of it so well
@@simonr.s.v1271 I think he means that the captain simulated his loss of situational awareness well. It's a very useful skill in a training environment.
@Sunamer Z yeah i heard it to..he done a great job.! he saved the aircraft...& he'll walk away from this a BETTER F.O .!
Captain did all he could to fly into terrain and dissuade the F/O from taking action in time. He did anyway, so good job :) Could be sooner, but captain made it really challenging. Hope no sane captain would let it go so far.
The point is to practice this for real scenarios
9 years old, but still pure gold! Thanks for the video!
Same thing happened in Vegas to an Airbus crew on a visual approach from the Southeast to 26L. Got the field in sight, was cleared for the visual. Started to descend to the FAF altitude only they didn’t realize Boulder mountain was between them and the airport. They got the GPWS and thank God followed the procedure for terrains.
"loss of situation awareness".. when i was doing my IFR training my instructor drilled the word situational awareness in my head.. specially when i was flying an approach and how i ALONE was dealing with multi engine procedures and brief on everything, scaning my instruments and flying the aircraft at the same time.. specially when it comes to the DH or MDA where i would call it the most CRITICAL phase or part of the whole flight specially in crazy IMC conditons.. great video.
I think you mean “especially”, not “specially”.
Beautifully demonstrated....Thank You!
All of that intentionally perpetrated by the Captain/Instructor to demonstrate what NOT to do. That's what sims are for.
Brief the threats before descent always improves situational awareness. Lesson learnt here it if you're unsure of position at night and not under radar control, just climb to the MSA and hold over a navaid.
Also it shows the importance to have 2 guys in the flight deck that's backing each other up
This scenario gives me the impression that they were tracking a false localizer signal. The instruments were saying one thing but the first officer knew from experience that they were more west than usual. Good instructional video!
Captain played that well, very convincing you can tell he doesn’t act at all like that regularly
I also love how this Captain intentionally breaks the sterile cockpit rule by discussing with the F/O (doing all his best to remain focused) in a critical phase of the flight: "Have you been there before ?"...
Like thinking "mmm we're beginning our approach, let's try do begin to distract him little by little now 😈"
The Captain is even trying to change the flaps setting and set the gear up during the terrain escape manœuver.
The ultimate distraction ! Vicious as a real of situation awareness would be !
Good job !
Raising the gear is what you would do, nothing wrong with that.
@@X50505 I think that there has been a film break and/or a video editing cut between the go-around execution and the confirmed 500 feet point. I think his (the captain's ) advisory comment was "positive rate, we've got the gear up, um, we've got the flaps running..." So the, "we've got the gear up" comment from the captain was simply a confirmation. But in relation to the "...flaps running..." confirmation I suspect this simulator training captain was trying to keep "loading up" the F/O by throwing confusing red herrings or redundant comments in, right throughout the initial climb portion of this exercise.
Anybody can do mistakes... good CRM case.
Good job, this is precisely the purpose of multiple crews cockpits.
Thank you for the vid and the feedbacks. Very instructive and interesting.
Yep! This is what CRM training is all about. I use to fly sim a lot with a friend on mine and he would not be able to use CRM because he was so much in his bubble that he would not respond to my prompts. It got dull after a while. In a nutshell, he just wants to have fun, not practice stuff like what we see here.
Nice acting Captain! Great Job F/O! Very Professional :) If only government could solve problems this fast and professional.
Just looking at the video makes my heart pound a bit faster. Great scenario training
This seems played by the captain. Very well played though! I think the pilot monitoring does this by the book. Really nice.
Good training CRM. Good "play" from the captain in this simulator flight, and the simulated loss of situational awareness from the flying colleague (the capt. in this example).. Thumbs Up! Thanks for sharing video.
Fantastic work by the FO !
as soon as any member is uncomfortable...Captain must climb to MSA...
we learned this Nov 29 ,1979
TE 901 EREBUS
Please tell me, who on the flight deck was uncomfortable during the EREBUS incident?
@@BMordecai engineer
Both of them very professional, the capitan was very humble
Brilliant example of what can go wrong and hats off to No1 for his assertiveness and respect for the situation and for his Captain in that order.
he did a good job of challenging but you could argue he needed to be more forceful because they were getting into a bad situation in the captain clearly wasn't listening to him
Just found this video. Great CRM. Great job F.O.
I love this as especially for myself i can become rather talkative in the cockpit, and although every flight is a learning lesson, you will not know when the lessons will run out
excellent video, thanks for posting :)
until GPS really came online in the early 2000s, this was not an uncommon scenario back in the day - smart pilots swallowed their pride and contacted ATC.
Now, you whip out a phone (even over the oceans, with saved maps)and you will see where you are in near real time.
Professional job, gentlemen!
Hate watching someone lose situational awareness
Co-pilot informed the "captain" several times that something wasn't right, and yet the captain plodded on.
A good Captain should listen...even when he "thinks" he knows what is going on.
I think the point of the whole exercise is to make the FO overcome the fear of telling the captain that he believes he is wrong and that they should abort, there has been waaaaaaaaaaaaay to many instances where silent FO's have allowed captains to crash suspecting or even knowing something was wrong but yet staying silent for the fear of pissing of the captain (and especially if they would be wrong).
I do think that the FO will be more assertive of his worries and won't wait as long to take control if he ever finds himself in the same situation.
Also for those who claim they wouldn't have waited as long and so on, would you REALLY have dared to question the abilities of a captain with several thousand more flight hours then you so quickly (especially back then)? - Why do you think there is CRM training? ;)
It's a sim. The captain is doing it on purpose.
Very professional
I have control, eso es asertividad, muy buen ejemplo y tan pronto como el EGPWS inicio la transmision de TERRAIN PULL UP, el piloto monitoreando tomo acciones frente a la duda o incapacitacion del Comandante
good lookin out F.O
Great training scenario. Loss of situational awareness is no different than crew incapacitation.
well done FO!
Good job on the FO's part, but he let it get as low as 500 AGL...
That is why most approaches have a 4 mile glide slope check to verify your position and descent profile.
Well done, bit late but he did well. Really interesting to see how he quickly becomes more and more insistent. And then makes the descision to take control.
Good job, there should be no question, do what the plate says.........
Excellent training video! 👏 The Captain didn't try to pull rank, even though he was confident that he had SA during the first part.
The FO did outstanding! He gave information to the Captain in a manner that progressively showed the increasing risk they were facing, without making the Captian feel ashamed or argumentative. When the FO was confident that his SA was more accurate that the Captain's, he quickly took controls and made his intentions audibly known! 👏
yeah, that is very true
awsome video, putting some pressure on the copilot ;D
Very good job by the FO! I guess the captain was acting his role though
Really ? I mean I would have started to raise BIG concern at the moment he announced visual, as they were in night and clearly field not in sight. F/O did good but very late IMO. He was just saved by the EGPWS which gave him the strengh to initiate the take over control. This might be too late in a real situation.
That’s why they practice, can’t do everything perfectly
correct if the train had been very steep 500 ft is nothing, that's just the warning you hear immediately before you crash
@@abbottmd Flying Tigers crash...
Go around is always the best option
Flying has changed since that year till now and to the future
What a great example of CRM ! So many lives could have been saved.....
About as real as it gets. Had me almost until the end. Would've personally (heinsight 20/20 ofc) have went vertical right after the SA missmatch.
" i am familiar with this airport" Captain repeat it too many times.
yeah... but unfortunately it's not so easy to take over control from captain...depends on many paramaters, (personality, atmosphere, crew members, confidence etc etc)
This is obviously a simulated condition as is evident by the flashing screens. Great job from the pilot monitoring. Nice decisive and swift intervention.
no terrain data on the ND?
It's either a captain now out of a job or a F/O being tested. Probably the latter.
I figured they were toast. Better to assert control late than never.
The moment he saw radar altimeter show up where it shouldnt it would be ok its verified ur not where we need to be so i got control lets find out whats going on higher up
This is for real: lost my wife in First Air 6560 August 20 2011. Capt head up a, FO tried but failed, too nice. It’s ok to go around. Read report TSB Canada
My condolences. You were a good Captain. Some pilots get so complacent with their approaches.
copilot captain is this the right spot
cpt yep looks good
radar alt !
captain sounds good
copilot ya sure we are in the right spot
captain, looks good from my end
warning Terrain
captain , yeah i know, trying to land on the terrain!
woop woop pull up
captain :steady as she goes!
damn!! that was nerve wracking,, where was the "GO AROUND!" call? good sim
When the plane is screaming terrain at you, you don't need a go around call :)
"I have control, I have control", or I believe in FAA speak it would be "My aircraft". Under CRM, if another pilot takes control of the aircraft, you hands off. They are taking the corrective actions you are failing to do.
Three simple words to live by, in this precise order... Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
Keep the aircraft within it's flight envelope, and away from terrain
Fly the aircraft in a course suited for the "mission"
Tell others (co-pilot, ATC....................passengers) what has happened and what you need. A.N.C. should be upheld at all times, but is critical in an emergency.
*First Officer :*
_"Captain!"_ 😬
_I am certain that this is NØT the _*_- >here< -_*_ you are looking for!"_
_"That 'here' is over there!" _*_--> -->_*
😶
*Cap'n :*
_"Nunh hunh!"_ 😠
totally agree .. if only ! :/
I’d be throwing that approach away much earlier.
It does get the heart rate going a touch huh
La importancia de volar con copilotos bien entrenados y con experiencia
Thomas! veo que te gustó el vídeo que envié por mail al grupo eh?!
No me queda claro si esto es un montaje o realmente el piloto se desorientó. Quiero pensar que es un vídeo de demostración, probablemente basado en un hecho real. Es una muestra muy buena de lo que es la pérdida de conciencia situacional.
Es en simulador pero esta bien, es correcto el ejercicio, a cualquiera le puede pasar y cuando dudas, el tema es simple, yo tengo y arriba. En en debriefing discutimos que paso y aprendemos de los errores, por suerte el comandante, frente a la duda dejo que su primer oficial lo resolviera. el Comandante tiene algunas dudas durate el proceso y eso es perdida de conciencia situacional, gracias por compartir, muy bueno el video
of course...but here, it seems that everybody forget that it's just a fake situation. In real life, in a real plane....things are different. I mean the same but harder. I flew with some captains, so tight that there is no communication in the cockpit....this is a Real problem.
OK, as others have said this was probably an exercise set up by the Captain, however, there was more to it than just situational awareness. It also showed a rather poor briefing, a non-sterile cockpit during approach and non-compliance with harness requirements during an approach.
I just hate how the captain prolongs the correcting action by his own acts, but ofcourse this was the intention.
Is this a genuine case of the captain becoming situationally unaware during a sim session or was it a set up just to see if the FO would take control?
Could be either ive seen em where the captains just aim for the taxiway yacking away about the plane not working good trying to distract the FO to be heads in
Nowdays it's is very easy to fly... It's like iPhone 14 Pro vs Nokia N90....🤭 Thanks Fly by Wire
i think the captain was doing that on purpose! maybe wanna see how would the FO handle the pressure and the situation...sth like CRM!
waited a bit too long to take control in my opinion. by the time they got the second RADALT call i would have gone missed app :(
How did they get lost? Were their positional data not accurate in the navigation display?
Poor Captain, I think that no matter how much experience you may have, you're always going to be able to commit such a mistake or get lost on this important part of the flight. Fortunately the F/O was very decided and pretty sure of taking control of the A/C. As long as human are part of anything, mistakes always going to take place. Greeting to all!!!
I think the Co-pilot, passed this test with at least a 10 and a couple of numbers more. He was able to take charge of the aircraft and situation. Graea for the Copilot! Thank you mate for your answer!
Was this a simulation or real?
Michael Devito simulator
Yes and it is the point of the excersice, dear to tell the captain that you disagree and feel he is wrong, and if need be take controls instead of silently letting him kill you because you have too much respect or fear for him.
The captain is doing so many things "wrong" wich the FO knows but yet he almost lets the captain do a CFIT before interwening, coming closer than 500 feet from terrain. - It shows how hard it is to tell someone senior to you that they are wrong.
Next time he will (hopefully) have learned from this and express his concerns immediatly instead and stopping the captain from killing everyone.
I’m pretty sure the captain was doing this deliberately as a test for the first officer
That's real, but silly. Taking over is matter of live or death, therefore not doing so is suicide. This is a perfect example and the first officer did it perfectly well. Maybe he wait too much, but he saved the situation. He was mach better aware of their position, and he knew when to stop him.
Rather than just timidly say "I think we are a bit off target" the FO could have simply checked that they were tuned to the correct ILS and then pointed it out to the captain if the insruments showed it was wrong. No need for any drama, the facts would have been clear to all.
Automation dependency can kill
Pushing all knobs off on the yoke and take that airplane in control is best to do...damn electronics...AP and AT is the worst you can have active when things go bad.
I'm doubting it was real life as it was video recorded which is a standard sim practice, and I don't believe they would be releasing it if it was real (doesn't make the company look good)
Mark Nicol Man it a sim crm video
Approach briefing should have been done further in advance and more thorough. Seemed incomplete and messy to me. But like the video.
Sterile cockpit rule?
They were talking about thongs related to the approach
You don't brief the approach and go around as you pick up the glideslope/localizer...this video makes no sense...
Yeah I'm sure you're an expert flight instructor.
Which is kind of the point, captain is supposed to act confused in order to (hopefully) make FO take action and learn from this and how he reacted in this situation so that he will maybe be more assertive if he thinks something isn't right.
Also do note that captain doesn't maintain a sterile cockpit and instead talks and focuses on everything but the approach
That’s right ....F/O saves the day,not all F/Os are ballast.
Joe Biden in the left seat
This is scary. They are both intelligent but only one person is fit for the job. This is the difference between someone who has situational/spatial awareness and someone who gets lost in the details.
ITS A SIMULATION !!!!
It's a simulation where the captain does everything wrong intentionally, the FO will have learned from this how important it is for him to voice his concern, lose the "fear" of correcting the captain and taking over control if need be
Stop talking like Peter Sellers (Pink Panther) and maybe you'll understand one another for better Cockpit Resources Management (CRM).
The whole thing looks sort of staged.
No shit you moron. It's a training simulation.
@@bIoodypingu It was a joke, you clueless millennial turd.
@@Tocametalheart "LoL I TROLL U" Fuck off you dumb fuck. Jokes tend to be funny. Your brain dead comment wasn't even close to humor.
Really? 😂
100 million dollar aircraft and it cant tell you where you are??? I can get a 50$ GPS and it would do a better job.
How do people as fucking brain dead as you are even manage to breathe on your own.
Joe biden must be Captain.