But why compare the enduro with an old DH bike? should be modern enduo vs modern DH bike, where the real dilema of choosing between the two will really help.
but only because social media is far away from real life. And influencer start mass production of video content on the assembly line and preaching modern hyper commerce for money earning. clickbait mechanics on top. And pretend that 5mm difference would be as big as the difference between car and rocket to hype the constant "improvement" and so to have a basis for new videos.
would be interesting to get some new DH 26 in for good rubber, a dropper and sram NX/GX eagle gears to let you winch up climbs, it would still be a cheap but super capable hardcore trail bike this is basically what i've done to the 2010 trek scratch air i bought for £300, got less then a total of £600 in for a nice desending, nice(ish) climbing 170mm travel front and rear bike
i have done the same mate, i bought a specialized enduro expert 2007 with a fox 36 and a fox dhx rc4 rear and i put there a gx drivetrain, new shimano deore brakes and it is a really nice trail bike
Isaac was far over the rear end of the bike from the beginning and it looks like the old DH bike only starts to really work if the gradient is at least 20% down. Both bikes seem to have their geometry for completely different reasons and I‘d love to see a deep dive on that with a frame designer.
I use a 2012 Transition bottlerocket with 160mm Marzocchi fork and 150mm Fox at the rear on the local trails. It seems like people are always coming over and asking me questions about it. Its a blast to ride, even with the 26" wheels
I've only ever ridden old school (6-10 years old) downhill bikes purely because I cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a newer enduro. although I would love to try one some day and see the difference a big tire and new geometry would make.
2000 Kona Stab Primo is my beast right now. Feel like everything he's said about older bikes is spot on, especially after starting out on a modern bike.
Why not new tires on the old bike? You would not ride your enduro with 10 year old tires. Also interessting would be, building the old frame with new parts. In my old bike i also used 27,5" wheels instead of 26".
Yeah, on steep tech and big jumps give me the twin crown every time. As long as I don't need to pedal it haha. I finally got a try a DH bike last week and the first surprise was that it was poppier off jumps than my 150 travel bike and of course a lot more stable in the air. And for confidence in steep tech, nothing beats a DH bike.
@@mrvwbug4423 Glad you enjoyed it so much. The more you ride it the more comfi it gets, even short burst of pedal power become fun in it's own way. I've been on the dh rig for 13 years now, best bike I ever bought, although I'm keen on getting one of these new high tech enduro bikes, they look pretty rad
I have a 1998 specialized far and a trek Merlin 7. I usually use the trek but like they were saying it is a fun novelty to go out on the old stuff because you can't find that experience anywhere else but in those bikes. The fsr is my favorite bike to burn uphill but is defiantly is sketchy when you are blasting downhill or some fast tech. Either way old bikes rule!
Still riding a 2012 26-er with upgraded tyres, cockpit and gears and agree, this is the main factor: sometimes the wheel simply gets jammed by rocks and roots, where 29er would roll over.
Just listening to Rich and Isaac comparing the 2 and seeing Isaac's suspension working more on the rough stuff, I wonder much faster the most modern downhill bike would be against those 2 bikes?
I have a 2017 Kona Stinky 26. I have ridden modern enduro and while they're great and all, there's nothing like 200mm of travel with 26" wheels and steamroller geometry.
I was surprised that the old 26er DH bike pulled that level of gap on the modern enduro rig. I've ridden both modern enduro bikes and a modern DH bike, and the DH bike is night and day better through downhill tech even running 27.5 wheels on both ends. The modern DH bike just has this smooth, confident, damped feel that I've never gotten from any single crown bike, though I've ridden an enduro bike on a coil that got close.
I’ve just built a Levo carbon with fox 38 forks. First ride was yesterday. I have a late 90s FSR DH with old Jr T and fox vanilla shock. Also a fox float when I want a single crown. Also the comparing of mullet vs 26”. This is pretty much how I expected this test to go. Not as fast on fast sections, but quick switchbacks and very tight stuff, the shorter wheelbase and 26” are probably a bit more playful. But honestly, I’d be quicker on my new bike racing it DH. I still can never get ride of my FSR. If anything, it brings back great memories
These videos seem geared to put down older bikes, to me that's just not entertaining. Can these bikes compete with modern bikes? No, absolutely not, they're from a totally different era. Can they be fun? Absolutely, especially with a geometry update. If you really have to do this comparison, then make it a real comparison. We already know that modern bikes outperform old ones, so modernize the geometry of the older bike and then see how well it can be updated and how it fares against a modern bike in that context.
i love the nukeproof scalp as mine has a new groupset, new 2023 boxxers, new 2018 rockshox rear shock and im small so the shorter reach doesnt bother me. i wouldnt have any other bike (unless it was a canyon torque haha)
I'm actually in this delema right now lol I don't know what to go for, backstory is I done DH alot a good 10 to 13 yrs ago an accident took me out the game for a year or so then life took over but now I'm absolutely dying to get back on a bike! I'm looking at a few endures just now but being from the Giant ATX one and Two era I loved my 2 bikes alot and my kona stinky! I will be getting something newer but so many amazing deals on some amazing DHs jsut now it's difficult! Even a kona Operator 2 I was looking at but seeing the easier riding uphill is kina what I want something that does good on the road aswell as on a trail! It will also be a get around bike, I know people say get a cheap bike and a hard tail for that been there done that hated that I want something nice to ride good to look at etc I don't do hard tails anymore them days are gone haha
Difficult comparison. Issac looked more comfortable on the 26. Moved whole bike more flexible?Although was over back wheel more. Hardly going to diss new size bikes as impact on bike industry? What's needed is timed runs?
I have old Kona Operator DH 2014 and it is super. Only had to replace cassette from 11-26 to 11-40 for uphill. Tried friends Orbea Laufey and I didnt enjoyed that much.
A few weeks ago I took my 2003 Kona Stuff to a downhill park. I felt and rode like a teenager until the last run when my arms were jelly and I went from 15 to 80 from the resulting crash. Would I prefer to own an enduro bike. Yes. Can I afford one? maybe an old 27.5" or a new 29" hardtail. Either way I will always still find a time to ride my old 26" Hardtail.
Coming from someone who's never owned a downhill bike...When people say downhill bike suck for climbing, I always wonder why no one just puts a 50t cassette on one to make their lives a little easier.....? Can someone please explain.
The frame and components will remain heavy. I recently replaced the crankset to help with uphill climbs on f a 2006 DH bike, and it's still a slog pedaling up. DH bikes are meant to survive going down, not for the rider to survive pedaling up.
@@haldclark yah I get that it's def gonna stay heavy but it can't hurt to have better gearing but it doesn't seem like any dh bikes ever do. I guess most dh bikes are just used with lifts or people want an excuse to buy an Enduro as well lol
Which bike would you choose to ride Fort William? For me I’m still running a 2008 Morewood Izimu for actual downhill trails. For anything else I use my enduro.
Enduro bikes are usually designed to be more stable, with DH bikes it kinda depends on the bike. A DH bike that is aimed as more of a park bike, is going to be more playful than a DH bike that is aimed at DH racing. I've ridden a bunch of enduro bikes and they all tend to have a very stable feel. I've ridden one DH bike, a GT Fury and that one was actually more playful than basically any enduro bike I've ridden. I've not tried out any freeride bikes like the RM Slayer, Canyon Torque or Propain Spindrift, though I've heard they tend to be more playful than enduro race bikes.
Both have their pros and cons. And they are so close to one another, just a percent or two separate them. I would have to go with the enduro on this one for a few reasons. Enduro is more suited for all terrain riding (although still some good effort needed on the climbs). The DH, it’s like pushing a tank. Both have capability on the decent. DH has something in reserve with big 200+/- travel, where the enduro may be maxed out with the 170/160. Component availability is also key, with the limited availability of 26 components today (wheels, tires, etc) what happens when something goes wrong and you can not get a replacement for several days? Or if at all! I think I would edge so slightly with the enduro simply for that reason, but by the closest of margins. Now if I were a DH racer, only descending, DH all day.
You are aware the suspension can be upgraded which likely would reduce and possibly even eliminate some of the things your not happy with right? :-) Okay, I can't speak directly about downhill and Endruro bikes specifically, but I can attest that my trail mutt which has much more modern suspension parts rides like a completely different bike from the original setup (bobbing is so little you'd think it was eliminated (not quite, but it's that close), the suspension is more responsive to the terrain, and it's just much easier to dial in today). Don't like the 3x driveline, it can be swapped out for 1x - though given it's a 26er, the wheels would need to be built throwing the budget out a bit. Just saying you might be surprised at what new tech can do for refreshing and modernizing an older ride...
Hi gmbn is there a chance you could remake the free ride vs downhill bike with the newer tech now ❤
But why compare the enduro with an old DH bike? should be modern enduo vs modern DH bike, where the real dilema of choosing between the two will really help.
And even older dh
Watching Isaac riding downhill and doing tricks has really made me like him alot more, definitely something it would be great to see more of.
A 2011 downhill bike is now considered an old school bike..
I feel so old 😂😂
but only because social media is far away from real life. And influencer start mass production of video content on the assembly line and preaching modern hyper commerce for money earning. clickbait mechanics on top. And pretend that 5mm difference would be as big as the difference between car and rocket to hype the constant "improvement" and so to have a basis for new videos.
I think it's mostly because the last ten years have seen such a much bigger change in geometry and components compared to the previous ten years.
A 2011 bike has become old school as far as in 2013 when the new school was introduced. It has nothing to do with age.
It happens. But at least 2011 isn't considered "prehistoric" yet... 🤣🤣😉
I think off 2010 as new. Christ I feel old I still have my mark1 trailstar which must be over 20yrs old by now
If u don’t use it again can I have it ?
😂
would be interesting to get some new DH 26 in for good rubber, a dropper and sram NX/GX eagle gears to let you winch up climbs, it would still be a cheap but super capable hardcore trail bike
this is basically what i've done to the 2010 trek scratch air i bought for £300, got less then a total of £600 in for a nice desending, nice(ish) climbing 170mm travel front and rear bike
Might even be able to fit a 27” front in there
i have done the same mate, i bought a specialized enduro expert 2007 with a fox 36 and a fox dhx rc4 rear and i put there a gx drivetrain, new shimano deore brakes and it is a really nice trail bike
@@daviddiaz4365 similar to my 170mm trek air I've not long bought.
i done that to my kona operator 2014. upgraded rear cassette from 11-26 to 11-40. now it is a blast. cost me 700€ all together.
I'm doing the same with a Rocky Mountain Flatline Pro.
Isaac was far over the rear end of the bike from the beginning and it looks like the old DH bike only starts to really work if the gradient is at least 20% down. Both bikes seem to have their geometry for completely different reasons and I‘d love to see a deep dive on that with a frame designer.
Yup, old school geo necessitates the old school hang off the back riding style.
I use a 2012 Transition bottlerocket with 160mm Marzocchi fork and 150mm Fox at the rear on the local trails. It seems like people are always coming over and asking me questions about it. Its a blast to ride, even with the 26" wheels
same with my powdercoated nukeproof scalp
Lets get Isaac and Neil on a head to head on modern DH bikes, I reckon Neil would be in trouble 😮
Those goggles... did Isaac loose a bet? 😂
Enjoyed Isaac commenting his ride!
I've only ever ridden old school (6-10 years old) downhill bikes purely because I cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a newer enduro. although I would love to try one some day and see the difference a big tire and new geometry would make.
2000 Kona Stab Primo is my beast right now. Feel like everything he's said about older bikes is spot on, especially after starting out on a modern bike.
Would have been good to see a timed run with rich riding both bikes (or Isaac, but I suspect that Enduro bike would be a bit big!).
I agree, two riders and two different bikes, you can't really compare them.
Why not new tires on the old bike? You would not ride your enduro with 10 year old tires. Also interessting would be, building the old frame with new parts. In my old bike i also used 27,5" wheels instead of 26".
Old school for me please
I've had the chance to ride both but when it comes to rough, tech, banging tracks and trails, nothing beats a downhill rig
Yeah, on steep tech and big jumps give me the twin crown every time. As long as I don't need to pedal it haha. I finally got a try a DH bike last week and the first surprise was that it was poppier off jumps than my 150 travel bike and of course a lot more stable in the air. And for confidence in steep tech, nothing beats a DH bike.
@@mrvwbug4423 Glad you enjoyed it so much. The more you ride it the more comfi it gets, even short burst of pedal power become fun in it's own way.
I've been on the dh rig for 13 years now, best bike I ever bought, although I'm keen on getting one of these new high tech enduro bikes, they look pretty rad
I knew Isaac would be a good all round rider but no idea the dude could shred like that down a DH track! Fair plays.
I have a 1998 specialized far and a trek Merlin 7. I usually use the trek but like they were saying it is a fun novelty to go out on the old stuff because you can't find that experience anywhere else but in those bikes. The fsr is my favorite bike to burn uphill but is defiantly is sketchy when you are blasting downhill or some fast tech. Either way old bikes rule!
Still riding a 2012 26-er with upgraded tyres, cockpit and gears and agree, this is the main factor: sometimes the wheel simply gets jammed by rocks and roots, where 29er would roll over.
Definitely enduro, so much more versatile bike.
Just listening to Rich and Isaac comparing the 2 and seeing Isaac's suspension working more on the rough stuff, I wonder much faster the most modern downhill bike would be against those 2 bikes?
26"bike rule the World againe whit mordern geo
modern enduro for sure its more versatile . dh bikes only for mountains
The biggest difference is the price, old DH cost about 500 and new Enduro about 3000-5000
@@vlvdy exactly why I’m considering an old DH bike with some new goodies to make it a semi enduro
@@isaaccarr466 the only thing is to find a frame, that is long enough, most older bikes are very short
amazing how enduro bikes or downhill bike transform head protection requirements 😅
I have a 2017 Kona Stinky 26. I have ridden modern enduro and while they're great and all, there's nothing like 200mm of travel with 26" wheels and steamroller geometry.
I was surprised that the old 26er DH bike pulled that level of gap on the modern enduro rig. I've ridden both modern enduro bikes and a modern DH bike, and the DH bike is night and day better through downhill tech even running 27.5 wheels on both ends. The modern DH bike just has this smooth, confident, damped feel that I've never gotten from any single crown bike, though I've ridden an enduro bike on a coil that got close.
I’ve just built a Levo carbon with fox 38 forks. First ride was yesterday. I have a late 90s FSR DH with old Jr T and fox vanilla shock. Also a fox float when I want a single crown. Also the comparing of mullet vs 26”. This is pretty much how I expected this test to go. Not as fast on fast sections, but quick switchbacks and very tight stuff, the shorter wheelbase and 26” are probably a bit more playful. But honestly, I’d be quicker on my new bike racing it DH. I still can never get ride of my FSR. If anything, it brings back great memories
9:36 super flowie Isaac 👏🔥
Against my better judgement, i would pick old downhill bike
Hi gmbn can you plz make a video over the kona stinky its a old dh bike and i was wondering if its a good bike❤
DH bikes are so much fun. I'm glad I have a full 27.5 dh bike with a single speed setup. Perfect for park laps.
I still miss my DH rig.
modern mountain bike with old school kit. Love the baggy looking 90's/2000's gear
I purchased an immaculate fully tooled up 2017 Devinci Wilson... It still..
is the dogs bollox. Long live da Chainsaw.
Did Issac just get the downhill bug? Enjoyed this one gents..but I’m still keeping my rallon 😂
So put better tires on the downhill bike.
The boys were ripping it today, loved the first person views.
I'd rather ride the nukeproof then the more modern Orbea.
These videos seem geared to put down older bikes, to me that's just not entertaining. Can these bikes compete with modern bikes? No, absolutely not, they're from a totally different era. Can they be fun? Absolutely, especially with a geometry update. If you really have to do this comparison, then make it a real comparison. We already know that modern bikes outperform old ones, so modernize the geometry of the older bike and then see how well it can be updated and how it fares against a modern bike in that context.
i love the nukeproof scalp as mine has a new groupset, new 2023 boxxers, new 2018 rockshox rear shock and im small so the shorter reach doesnt bother me. i wouldnt have any other bike (unless it was a canyon torque haha)
I'm actually in this delema right now lol I don't know what to go for, backstory is I done DH alot a good 10 to 13 yrs ago an accident took me out the game for a year or so then life took over but now I'm absolutely dying to get back on a bike! I'm looking at a few endures just now but being from the Giant ATX one and Two era I loved my 2 bikes alot and my kona stinky! I will be getting something newer but so many amazing deals on some amazing DHs jsut now it's difficult! Even a kona Operator 2 I was looking at but seeing the easier riding uphill is kina what I want something that does good on the road aswell as on a trail! It will also be a get around bike, I know people say get a cheap bike and a hard tail for that been there done that hated that I want something nice to ride good to look at etc I don't do hard tails anymore them days are gone haha
DH all day. Like comparing super car to sports car. One good all around, the other can reach max capability
The problem is that the 10y old DH bike when new cost 3x less than this new enduro bike.
Old school downhill bike, because that is the bike that I have.
Ive got a 2016 gt fury hard work but fun
old is gold , enduro bike look like it's not good....
Difficult comparison. Issac looked more comfortable on the 26. Moved whole bike more flexible?Although was over back wheel more. Hardly going to diss new size bikes as impact on bike industry? What's needed is timed runs?
And 17,7 kg is relatively lightweight. Mine ended up just below 20 kg.
I have old Kona Operator DH 2014 and it is super. Only had to replace cassette from 11-26 to 11-40 for uphill. Tried friends Orbea Laufey and I didnt enjoyed that much.
2023... you don't measure the top tube, you just look for it online if you have the number
A few weeks ago I took my 2003 Kona Stuff to a downhill park. I felt and rode like a teenager until the last run when my arms were jelly and I went from 15 to 80 from the resulting crash. Would I prefer to own an enduro bike. Yes. Can I afford one? maybe an old 27.5" or a new 29" hardtail. Either way I will always still find a time to ride my old 26" Hardtail.
Coming from someone who's never owned a downhill bike...When people say downhill bike suck for climbing, I always wonder why no one just puts a 50t cassette on one to make their lives a little easier.....? Can someone please explain.
The frame and components will remain heavy. I recently replaced the crankset to help with uphill climbs on f a 2006 DH bike, and it's still a slog pedaling up. DH bikes are meant to survive going down, not for the rider to survive pedaling up.
@@haldclark yah I get that it's def gonna stay heavy but it can't hurt to have better gearing but it doesn't seem like any dh bikes ever do. I guess most dh bikes are just used with lifts or people want an excuse to buy an Enduro as well lol
They told me is not gone fit....
How tall are you Rich? Curious. I'm 183cm and my hardtail has similar reach to yours in this vid but feels slightly too long! Just curous!
Rich we chatted about this at windhill bike park when I brought up my 2003 giant DH team 💪🏻 I think any DH bike still holds up and is so much fun
Love to ride my 26inch Kona Stinky Delux with a 1 speed drive train. Nothing will beat a DH on downhill 🤣
why talk about tire compounds like fresh new 26" tires in better compounds arent available lol
I think they were comparing the bikes as there are / were in the respective eras.
Get isacc on a modern 27.5 or mullet downhill bike with better suspension on.
Great vid just booked bike wales again aswell wife isn't happy 😂😂
i absolutely love my nukeproof scalp although it is harder to keep the speed up compared to modern bikes but still feels absolutely amazing
Which bike would you choose to ride Fort William?
For me I’m still running a 2008 Morewood Izimu for actual downhill trails. For anything else I use my enduro.
REsult?
InconclusivE!
💯 percent Modern Enduro Bike is the best choice I prefer 👍🏻💯💯💯
That downhill bike has a shorter reach than my Orbea Laufey trail hardtail. My bike has a reach for a medium of 435mm.
Hahaha you guys are crazy! 😂
So not much in it but we all get sold on newer bikes being so much better. For most of us improving our skill that will make more of a difference
Enduro with 27.5 is the right option for me I don't know why now is difficult to find this set up
I enjoyed this vid more than most......Quality..Ha!
Its a pilot not bike 🤟😷
How slack...is too slack? I'm interested to see where the industry takes us lol
One rider is also taller
Some companies now neglect having a small size. We little people still exist
Great to see a roundup of the bpw blacks at twice the speed id get down them! It’s the big flat drops that show up my enduro bike too.
lupet 🇵🇭 use to have those rockshox boxer dual crown fork.
I would choose the downhill if its harder to ride and then move up to the enduro.
So when does the new guy get some GMBN kit? Same for the vid he did on GCN.
Modern Super enduro. Commencal Clash.
I am still waiting for a new fatbike video! 🙏🏻
Easy! BOTH.
Great video
Old school
What are ur gopro settings for shots like 7:17 ?
Isaac is like all mountain skis! I love it 👌😃
Isaac and his googles. Love it.
First one here let’s go
child detected
Nah was just a first😂
Good video! So what brands or bikes do we look for if we want more playfulness vs that long and stable reach?
Enduro bikes are usually designed to be more stable, with DH bikes it kinda depends on the bike. A DH bike that is aimed as more of a park bike, is going to be more playful than a DH bike that is aimed at DH racing. I've ridden a bunch of enduro bikes and they all tend to have a very stable feel. I've ridden one DH bike, a GT Fury and that one was actually more playful than basically any enduro bike I've ridden. I've not tried out any freeride bikes like the RM Slayer, Canyon Torque or Propain Spindrift, though I've heard they tend to be more playful than enduro race bikes.
Awesome comparison 😎👍💯
Old dh still feels modern to me lol 😂
Did Isaac have a hangover?
DOWNHILL BIKE🤘
Got both, enjoy both
I'd take both 😂
I'll take the 2010 any day before I ride another 29er 🤮
Skills!!!
Both have their pros and cons. And they are so close to one another, just a percent or two separate them. I would have to go with the enduro on this one for a few reasons. Enduro is more suited for all terrain riding (although still some good effort needed on the climbs). The DH, it’s like pushing a tank. Both have capability on the decent. DH has something in reserve with big 200+/- travel, where the enduro may be maxed out with the 170/160. Component availability is also key, with the limited availability of 26 components today (wheels, tires, etc) what happens when something goes wrong and you can not get a replacement for several days? Or if at all! I think I would edge so slightly with the enduro simply for that reason, but by the closest of margins. Now if I were a DH racer, only descending, DH all day.
What if you factor in the price difference?
Love the videos
You are aware the suspension can be upgraded which likely would reduce and possibly even eliminate some of the things your not happy with right? :-) Okay, I can't speak directly about downhill and Endruro bikes specifically, but I can attest that my trail mutt which has much more modern suspension parts rides like a completely different bike from the original setup (bobbing is so little you'd think it was eliminated (not quite, but it's that close), the suspension is more responsive to the terrain, and it's just much easier to dial in today). Don't like the 3x driveline, it can be swapped out for 1x - though given it's a 26er, the wheels would need to be built throwing the budget out a bit. Just saying you might be surprised at what new tech can do for refreshing and modernizing an older ride...
Same trail, different helmets?? Why
I would love to see any fresh out the box enduro bike with 170m Front and rear win rampage then I will be convinced Enduro just as good as DH
You guys have done so many of these now and they’re always the same.
If you dont use it again can i have it?