Josh Pate On Teams Paying The Most NIL Money (Late Kick Cut)
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2022
- NIL has become synonymous with College Football recruiting, and with National Signing Day approaching Josh Pate took a question from a viewer on Late Kick Live Ep 340 about which teams are paying the most to recruits via collectives. Could it be that things are not necessarily as they appear on the surface regarding how big these offers are? How many recruitments could come down to accepting more on the front end versus potentially sacrificing long-term value on the back end? Let us know what you think in the comments below and be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the channel and CLICK THE BELL for notifications as we bring you multiple live shows per week!
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Something I have never seen get asked or volunteered: What are the boosters getting out of contributing to schools and NIL?
I think Texas A&M learned a valuable lesson with that #1 recruiting class they had. Half of them are now in the transfer portal. Finding the young men who have good character and are a good fit for your program is just as important, if not more important than finding the most talented ones.
Or maybe they learned if you don’t keep promises don’t be surprised when you get egg on your face
@@tyrtar Could be some of that too. But they definitely got a few problematic players that are toxic to a locker room.
There’s like 4 transfers from that class
Lol, they haven't learned a thing, and like Jimbo said, NIL wasn't really involved in assembling that class, they did it the old fashioned way and in the process their mouths wrote checks the big money donors couldn't afford to sustain year after year.
Why would you ever think that aggy would learn from its mistakes? They have a history of cheating and getting caught that goes waaaaay back. They never do anything with subtlety.
The fact that a recruit straight out of high school can get paid 6 figures play there a year and then transfer to another school is going to force colleges to implement contracts which will really turn college football into a 2nd NFL. Whether that’s a good thing or not it will take a few years to find out.
There should be rules in place already restricting how much they can play and still enter the transfer portal. I get the feeling the NCAA wants a total disaster so they can step in and regulate it as they wish, it's headed in that direction.
Something that gets lost in this NIL game is that the States that have no income Tax should have an advantage. TN, FL, TX, OK have zero state income taxes. That means something
Oklahoma has state income tax.
Oklahoma has no state income tax? Can I get paid back for what I’ve paid in state taxes? Nice to know that money spent wasn’t real. LOL
Boomer ,I'm not paying my taxes anymore
Excellent point.
I completely agree with you on your take about NIL and recruiting
I honestly can't say I thought about the fact that a kid could come out of high school and finesse one of these colleges out of a lot of NIL money upfront and then transfer to another school next year. I wonder how much money that's costing Texas A&M this year?
Yea, but A&M has not lost any of their key guys yet. They lost some high profile signings that were suspended infinitely and weren’t going to be let back on the team. Most of the other transfers were guys that didn’t see the field much or had been beaten out of the position by another player. I’m surprised that so many of A&M key talents are still there.
A$$$M is a dumpster fire, this is a prime example of what goes wrong when you give 18 year old kids gobs of cash. Dope smoking in the locker room etc and Fisher is a national embarrassment. This should be a lesson that all adults should already know. You cannot buy loyalty, especially with immature 18 year old kids.
@@zacharbert6604 A&M was bad this year, but a lot of the freshmen class didn’t play much. QB was the biggest issue this year with King and Johnson. Weigman the true freshman finally got some time in, and they looked pretty good the last game against LSU. They landed the 2nd highest ranked RB even after the terrible season a week ago. I think A&M might surprise some haters and casuals next year.
@@user-tz2zz5ij1s It doesn't matter, address the facts above. Jimbo Fisher has about as much integrity as Lincoln Riley at usc, both of them want to buy loyalty and take the easy way out.
@@zacharbert6604 that’s what basically every school is doing right now. People act like SC and A&M are the only ones.
Answer his question directly first with a top 10 list 💯🔥🔥🔥🔥
He didn’t want to do that because he’s a sec homer and they are all on it. SEC wants to act like they have kids because “it means more” 🥴 they don’t want people to know they have half of the top 10 largest collectives and are buying players just like every other school now. They want this narrative of moral superiority
Not hatin but OSU’s pulled more top caliber WRs than any team in the nation….there’s a reason: 💵
Brian Hartline is the reason!
Any kid who specifically chooses one school over another solely due to NIL money will rarely pan out. Comfort is the #1 enemy to success. Prior to playing a single down for a school, if that kid is already able to purchase a large percentage of the things he’s always wanted, he’s rarely going to work out. The only ones who will work out on those situations are the ones who are wise beyond their years (there’s not many of them).
This felt really close to home, Iowa fan here hoping Proctor stays with the hometown school
Really interesting video! I'm glad student-athletes are getting paid, but I think the system still needs a few more tweaks.
how so?
A lot more tweaks
I think it came out yesterday, Ohio State said they were outbid for a 5 star by Georgia. Apparently Ohio State offered 500k, Georgia went north of 1.5 million.
GO DAWGS!!!!!!!!!!!! ❤️🖤🐶
What BS
Got a source?
There’s no way a representative of Ohio State (or any other school) is going to come out and say that they were bidding on a player. You’ve been had if you believe that. N
@@bluemarlin8138 all I’m saying is that a reporter came out and said it during a sports interview. You can dismiss it or believe it. 247sports and SI ran the story.
Tennessee/Heupel has been doing great with NIL. We have a good balance and formula in place. Proof was on display last year, and will be again this year.
Nah y’all just paying players
Josh correct me if I'm wrong on this but it is my understanding that NIL deals cannot be tied to playing at a school so even if you had a backloaded contract you could still transfer and get paid for that contract while getting another deal with your new school.
In theory, that’s how it’s supposed to work. But the NCAA has basically said they’re not enforcing their guidelines, so it’s kind of the Wild West right now until the NCAA decides to enforce its rules.
One thing some of the NIL contracts are doing to negate that issue is agreeing on a multi year structured deal but signing 1 year at a time contracts. There is also legal issues for the players to breach their contract if the leave and don’t show up to do their side of the agreed upon contract.
I think one issue that you may start to see with the NIL along with many other issues is. Once a kid has that contract, they don’t grind on the field in college like they used to when they had to make a name for themselves to get paid in the NFL. I know it won’t be all players, but that’s why I enjoy college more than Pro’s Once they get that bag it seemed like even fewer still tried as hard.
I agree with this.
Most players will not get much if any NIL$. The few that do may . be subject to extortion, as in - star QB, you want pass protection, that will cost you. Star running back, you want wide running lanes, perhaps you might think of tips for the hard working O-line that can make it happen if they are properly motivated.
Case in Point Jordan Davis ! Notably said mine will come later…. NFL
I would pool the money for the seniors. In your junior year, you make the decision if you want to get draft money or stay for senior pot. Payable at the end of season or graduation. I won't cut you if you got injured.
@@ellaluna5514 every freshman is not a NIL superstar. Getting on a team, esp power 5, is still a big deal. I'd bank on my player dev over time versus my gamble on 5-star potential
USC, Tenn, Miami, Texas, Texas AM, all pay big!
Paying NIL and offering NIL are two different things. And for some reason, the average fan can’t tell the difference.
It’s par for the course in modern athletic contracts. You’re rarely getting your full contract.
I love how everyone was saying the NIL would end Alabama's reign. LOL
Bama has a huge NIL presence. Pate’s take on this one is retarded at best.
Well they haven’t won a title since NIL
@@HeyArnoldGotAFootballHead i know thinking must be hard for you. 🤣
It won't happen right away but in the long run nil and transfer portal will be the downfall of college football. I believe if you get an n i l deal you shouldn't get a free ride scholarship you should have to pay for it.
I said this two years ago and got laughed at and worse in comments. Well, it won’t be long now. CFB as I’ve always known it is over and done. I stopped getting excited about games last season. It’s worse this season, and by the ‘23 season start, I doubt my heart rate will ever even hit 85 in the tightest of games. I missed the first half of our rivalry game because I slept through it.
I was glad of the sleep.
Boo hoo. The damage is already done, it’s only a matter of time till we see the effects
The irony here is that the title alone perfectly exemplifies the problems with college sports
I'm curious to see what happens to the five star recruits that commits because of a big money offer but they don't pan out as a player. Like a 5 star QB that ends up being a career backup. Be interesting to see how programs handle that and how it effects the moral of lower earning starters.
This has always been the way. Now just more teams and fans are exposed to it and now because of it these big schools are threatened that their might be less control for them.
@@chillxxx241 so lost in “the man” that you are blind to the damage to kids but okay haha.
@@evan1788 damage to kids? Not only do they get a free education, but they now also get paid in college. Where is the damage? Do you want these kids not to be paid?
The transfer portal needs to be fixed and Nil money how do u fix. First I would only allow transfer portal after two years of eligibility for same team and Nil no upfront money until u prove it on the field. Why pay for unknown talent a tier system should be set up end of first year u get this and second year u get more u have to have some system otherwise college coaches are running circles to get recruits.
Almost sounds like he’s talking exclusively about TAMU & Miami. TAMU from last year & Miami this year.
That may have happened with Moore to UO.
Nebraska did well with NIL because they were the first to establish NIL Collectives. The rules and future of all of this are still being written. You also WAY oversimplify it.
The same teams who have always been the highest bidders in their nil program regardless of nil was legal or not
If they are really offering you that you need to take it 😂😂😂
The thing is some kids don’t really care about making it to NFL. They just want to help their family. Guaranteed money is better than a gamble for some
Dodging the question with another question. Sounds like a politician….. lol
It's not teams paying the money. It's area businesses.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Wink wink 😉 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰
First, I thought that private boosters or commercial firms paid the NIL not the universities in most cases. Secondly, if the boosters are paying, then how can a private individual contractor use state property for commercial gain at the state schools. Third, if the boosters are paying the players, then can the boosters demand input into player status and usage? Who holds the contracts with these players? Lastly and most importantly, when will the NFL start paying for its minor league like MLB and the NBA with its development league?
So, did DJ Ung make money off of Dr. Pepper/Fansville? He was their poster boy in 2021 and he tanked. His commercials stopped running.
Hmmm. Never saw that one. Seen a couple Bryce Young fansville commercials tho
@@parnassus804 Exactly! In Sept of 2021 Fansville was all DJ Ung. Then he tanked and they pulled the commercials.
@@leng1212 I remember the DJ commercials
@@joshberry66 I'm only curious if he got paid. According to Josh, if there's a delay in payment, he might not have.
@@leng1212 I honestly have no clue on that. I would imagine they’d have to pay him cuz he offered a service for them.
Transitional over Transaction programs like you talk about and like Michigan has said they are, are the programs that will have sustained success in this new era of college football
Michigan is in the worst position out of all these schools because if they miss out on recruits they can't get kids through the transfer portal unless they are early graduates or 5th year seniors. Michigan has one shot to get these elite 5 star recruits and with their philosophy they will be out bid. No if Ohio State Notre dame or Penn state Misses out on a 5 star kid they can wait a year or two and snag him in the portal.
@Nicholas McDougall guess what, stars don't matter as much as people like to think. Michigan still gets the high-level kids who want to improve. they develope guys for the NFL, not just guys that rely on just talent at the next levels
Lol keep your fingers crossed, little guy.
The teams that try to throw money at the problem will end up with Problems. Make a plan and work it.
Thank you Josh I swear CFB lack common sense. They just assume every kid is offered a bag before playing a down. Some are maybe but the schools that actually know what they’re doing aren’t being irresponsible with NIL
In the long wrong if they don't come up with uniform rules what will happen is both. You'll end up having to pay kids up front and than also once they are there so they don't leave. Idk when but if OSU losses to idk MSU 3 out of 4 years because they got a couple kids OSU didn't well than everything changes and OSU starts shilling out that money because they are sick of losing.
I can tell you who pays the most under the table…it’s Texas A&M and they pay up front in non-NIL money.
Texas at&m
No really. A&M has not lost any of their key guys yet. They lost some high profile signings that were suspended infinitely and weren’t going to be let back on the team. Most of the other transfers were guys that joined before NIL was available, didn’t see the field much, or had been beaten out of the position by another player. I’m surprised that so many of A&M key talents are still there.
Naw forget the NFL. Get the bag while you can
Saban flat out said they were back loading the NIL money. I'm sure that there will be modest payments to recruits (5 figures) but not doing 6-7 figures for HS seniors.
spent 7 mill on the class alone this year, UGA spent 9.... the 2 highest paying programs this year...
@@webechubbin incoming freshman?
Come on Josh! Bama was NIL before it was legal and you know it!
If they were they weren't the only ones by any stretch. From inside sources, half of the schools in the Power 5 were.
Ohio St is buying property in south Florida to set up an NIL headquarters. Lol @ trying to convince yourself that they aren’t big spenders.
They may be disorganized, but OSU is spending big $$$.
Bama and UGA are still right there at the top too. Saying anything to the contrary is laughable.
Check out how much money Olivia Dunne (gymnast) makes at LSU.
4 for 40 ☘️
In hindsight this seems to be a slap at the boys in orange and white in Knoxville
TAMU, Miami, and Tennessee? Pay recruits to come to our programs because we're desperate.
Georgia, Bama, and Tosu? Come to our program and you will get paid eventually. That's how it's going.
$$TENNESSEE$$
Crazy how the love of $ has changed our sport. Is it fair to say that we fans have some ownership in all of this? All the complaining & bickering, all the pressure we’ve put on these programs to compete. . . Anyway, hope everyone is doing well. God bless.
UGA, Alabama, OSU, Clemson, etc have been offering kids six figure bags for a long time before NIL started. They’re just not offering millions like A&M and Miami
That’s the short list, probably ever major school has paid for years before NIL!
Go canes 😎
How much NIL money is distributed by the teams, and how many athletes have NIL-deals that are independent of their teams? Does this vary from sport to sport?
Raising Canes paid Lsu Myles Brennan 1 million and he quit the team. Also word is he might come back and play for Southern Miss
You could offer me a million dollars to walk on hot coals 10 hours a day and I'd take it, let alone to go sit on the bench somewhere. Can't blame these kids for taking the money that's being thrown at them
We all know Alabama was paying the most before NIL.
This is no different than NFL rookies, at one time, getting HUGE contracts...without playing a down. They finally capped it because it was too risky. I can see that happening at some point here at the CFB level. Its only been a year and a half of NIL and its already out of control
Look at T A & Ms ROI
Yea, but A&M has not lost any of their key guys yet. They lost some high profile signings that were suspended infinitely and weren’t going to be let back on the team. Most of the other transfers were guys that joined before NIL was available, didn’t see the field much, or had been beaten out of the position by another player. I’m surprised that so many of A&M key talents are still there.
Let me guess, Oregon.
Every player should get a flat rate. Nothing outrageous, but a good amount of spending money.
Just an opinion but I think it makes more sense to throw the $ at proven players who have entered the transfer portal. What do the rest of you think?
They are doing that also
It may be a bit naive but teams don’t pay players and NIL is to compensate players for their college performance, not as a recruitment incentive. We all just assume colleges have a budget to pay players. They don’t.
You'll NEVER know how much we pay, since we're private. Trust me, we'll fully use that to our advantage.
No. It isn’t “all well and good”. College is now the “mini-NFL”. The NFL never had a farm system like baseball. Now it’s out in the open and they don’t have to pay for it.
I know Bryce Young is the most seen nationally, he has doctor pepper commercials, Heisman House commercials, deals with beat headphones etc, I haven't seen any other college football player getting that much national exposure not local but national ROLL TIDE ROLL
Bryce was a millionaire before he played a down at Alabama thanks to NiL. He isn't the only one. It's a joke saying they don't get the money to play at the University, but are getting pai to live near that University. They think we are so dumb we can't figure out what that means?
You make some good points however, you are implying that the schools are all cheating. NIL decisions are not supposed to involve the school directly. At the University of Washington- Mountlake futures is the organization running the NIL, not the UW athletic department.
If you don’t think the athletic departments aren’t running the collectives and telling them who they want to target and make offers to, I’ve got beach front property in Montana I’d like to sell you.
My thing is how does saban go to a hardworking, non limelight seeking, 3 star starting senior and tell him the 5 star freshman he beat out is making 6 figures?
Edit: you touched on my point. OrSt is the latter in pates scenario
Saban was right about the dangers of NIL. Everyone just said he was bitter or this and that. The balance of CF is turning in favor of the schools that are willing to write blank checks for players. I went to A&M and I think something needs to be done. Some sort of cap, I don’t know. I have no idea how you fix it but in a couple of years I don’t think the National Championship will be as prestigious as it was. A few more years with the way it’s going now and you will have 10 powerhouses and then the rest of P5. Years down the road after that those 10 will start dwindling down because not every school can sustain that kind of spending in the long run. Few schools have the alumni to sustain blank checks for the long run. A&M does, but I’m not in favor of it.
It really goes to show how great Saban’s run has been.
I strongly suspect Saban is in the camp Josh talked about where he’ll sell the absurd amounts of NIL money that starters at Bama can make once they become household names, as well as the NFL angle. I’m not saying there aren’t any NIL deals, but Saban probably isn’t going to get into a bidding war for a kid who could end up being a flop. He hasn’t ever been one to promise players anything before they have earned it. If that 3-star guy is a starter at Bama, he’s probably got loads of NIL opportunities already and will have a good shot at an NFL paycheck, so I doubt he’s going to care much what some freshman makes even if he were getting 6 figures.
The NIL isn’t a rookie contract. It’s endorsements. The 3 star player will just be able to sign more endorsements because he is a starter.
This will probably ruin some naive kids (and their parents) over the next several years until everyone wises up. Best to do nothing period and avoid all the wrecks..
Collage Football has been Ruined, and it's not the money that did it..
ACCORN HAS ENTERED THE NIL FOR ONLY OFFENSIVE LINEMAN
Lolol
When you allow the narrative of "athletes taken advantage of" to change the sport entirely, it's going to be nearly impossible to put the paste back in the tube. Promising 17/18 year Olds huge amounts of money to "commit" to ANYTHING without a true basis for what has to be earned is the equivalent of a house of cards. The collapse is inevitable.
Your Georgia Bulldogs, Pate
Josh, you better be able to bring receipts on your generic suppositions before you start slinging it. The better question isn't just cash-in-hand but value of NIL plus network. If it's just cash-in-hand, Oregon is essentially untouchable.
Better be able to what?
Didnt ohio st pay Quinn Ewers 1 million his freshman year?
Yep and their have been reports that he got at least twice that for leaving and going to Texas.
it wasn't OSU or Texas paying, He got a deal with some Organic company, Have no clue what he got for coming to Texas. There are collectives that pay out the money to the kids. One at UT is for Linemen, I heard it pays about $50K/yr for any Scholarship lineman on the team. I don't know if it goes up per year but I'm sure there are other Collectives that pitch in. UT specifically has a Collective that is for All sports at UT and not just football, they have some Student Athletes getting nice NIL money that aren't football players.
No high school kid coming in college should ever get paid a dime anything until they finish the three years at that college that they have chosen and at the end of those three years or four they will get their check not one damn dime needs to be paid to these spoiled kids
Saban was right again.
The hate on Miami is real!
Oregon is breaking the bank
Nonsense. This is no different than building a company by paying bonuses to new employees. Much much quicker results than bringing in raw talent and developing them.
Alabama, Oregon are the worst.
USC HAS THE MOST PLAYERS IN THE PRO FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME. HS KIDS SHOULD KNOW THIS FACT.
USC hasn't been relevant since before some of these kids were born.
Those programs you mentioned that don’t pay the incoming kids hardly any money are the ones that have that recent tradition of winning. Up and coming programs need to offer the younger kids to get them to help start building.
I have no idea how the Northwesterns, the Rutgers, the Stanfords , the Washington states of the world how the NIL is going to work out. It has the potential to separate the haves and have nots even more. The northwesterns who found a way to be competitive once every three years , it’s looking harder and harder in this world
They all have money, they can compete easier now that they can legally buy athletes!
OSU is begging fans to donate to a " foundation" to give players more money, lol.
This wasn’t the intentions behind NIL. People complain, but this started when the schools made money off of these players (video games, clothing, sky boxes, videos, websites etc. with a player’s name and image).
No, that was an idea being floated by Zach Smith of "Menace 2 Sports" because the original NIL boosters were only seeking donations of $10k or more.
A&M by far
Riiiiight.
A&M does NIL? Sure. So does everyone else. But that narrative is tired.
When A&M does well at recruiting it's as if we're paying them and that's bad.
A former blueblpod goes after someone and "good for them....they have unlimited money".
Oh well. I don't envy coaches now. It's a wild new model we're living in.
@@trohlack5150 Hey, I don't care is A&M pays their guys a million dollars each. I don't care about paying players. Pay them everything they are worth and then some. Good for players to get their bag.
@WingT4theWin agreed. But ultimately I'll be interested to know what the true figures are some day.
More often than not the accusation seems to be that the only way we can keep Texas boys, among others, home and/or lure them to Texas is to pay big $$. The real question should be why have our boys left the state all these years to go to other states like Oklahoma and Ohio. Are those places really a great place to leave home for.
So now that it's actually legal to pay players, and TAMU had some success last year and again (to a lesser degree this year) one has to ask...why? Could it be that the playing field is leveled a bit?
@@trohlack5150 Is the field level? Definitely not. But does it enable some programs to even get on the field. Believe it. Some guys don't care where they play. $500K is life changing for some families. Hell almost anyone in America. Less than 1% of college players go to the NFL. Get paid while you can.
Clearly. But, but, Jimbo and company got the 9 5 stars (the most ever) because of how good their season was last year. Realizes their season wasn't good. Oh, well then I got nothing but that they got paid. Yeah. They got paid, clearly. The highest they finished before this past year was number 4. All of a sudden you get the best class ever? Come on. Let's get real here. They need to fix this mess and fast because A&M is just going to continue to buy players. Owen one of the biggest NIL kids in HS just flipped his commitment from Louisville to A&M. I wonder why? Hmmmmmmmm. That's a mystery in my best Chris Farley voice.
Disagree completely Josh. Follow the five stars....if they wind up at East Carolina because they will pay up front and others will not, then I will agree. But most will go to a lucrative contract. This has been proven out since at least the 1970's. I can still remember Hershel and his new Trans-Am and his mom in a home after signing with UGA and it was not about delayed gratification by waiting to see if you pan out. But guessing you are protecting the top teams and just how much is being spent on athletes to move teams or join out of high school.
The question is how much? How much does it take to be say Top 10? Top 20? Top 40? Etc. The secretive nature of this is what smells big time.
Bama been paying players for YEARS
You're not suppose to pay money up front according to the rules? That's a question so don't go REEEEEEEEEE on me!
To pay a kid that you don't know if there going to be good is BAD BUSINESS. There is a correction coming. Buying a team where kids don't want to be there except for cash is a giant risk as texas just showed
the schools and coaches shouldn't have any input on the NIL money. its supposed to be money from a company to a player for using their name image or likeness. the schools are acting like an uninvited middleman to control the money and I bet skim some of it.
Click Bait, you never mention any of the schools who pay the most NIL
🗣️ ROLLTIDE 🐘🐘🐘
The kids have all the leverage. I guarantee those top recruits are taking the bag over a potential bag. If you think bama and Uga aren’t giving these guys NIL deals out of high school you’re delusional.
The teams that arent good at football is a good place to start on who's paying the most.
The good teams are paying their players to stay, like Michigan
Probably UGA
This is crazy and bad for the game. If you disagree then you tell me how this benefits the player, the team, and the reputation of each University offering a lot of money.
People will go for a year to some shit college and get paid big, than transfer to the big schools. I’m all for these athletes to get paid. If someone’s willing to pay it. They are worth it. All these players that are making big money right now better take full advantage of it before it gets leveled out. Get that money while you can. I do fear that some of these athletes will be massively taken advantage of. I hope they get agents who ensure they have the best interest of the player. At the end of the day these are young athletes that have never seen this much money. Do it smart.
NIL is ruining college football. It’s not because of players making money but the fact there is no rules or regulations. It’s like the Wild West with no rules. There needs to be a salary cap like in the NFL or in the NBA. College football needs to set up contracts for these players so there is competition
Publicly funded schools should not be involved with acquiring, negotiating or in any way involved with NIL. That's not what the tax payer is paying for!!! I have no issues with players recieving payment from outside corporations at all, but it should be included in financial aid determinations up to and included in scholarship eligibility (in other words remove the athletic nomenclature and tie academic requirements to all of them).
On3 has a NIL webpage that gives the listings of the most ambitious programs for NIL. The top 10 list is:
1. Tennessee
2. Miami
3. Texas A&M
4. Oregon
5. Florida
6. USC
7. Ohio State
8. Texas Tech
9. Texas
10. Alabama
Ironically, the next two are Georgia (11) and Michigan (12). Now, they don't necessarily say how much the NIL collectives are raising for their student athletes, but you wouldn't be wrong to assume or think that the chronological listing of these schools are either paying the most overall currently for this academic school year or will be in the next year.
That's right baby!!! Go VOLS!!!!