Let's look at TSR's Oriental Adventures
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- TSR's Oriental Adventures, published in 1985 is filled with great ideas. In this video, Jim and Alex take a dive into the content to discuss their favorite sections.
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#dandd #rpg #adandd #ad&d #advanceddungeonsanddragons #originaldungeonsanddragons #Theoldwarlock #OldWarlockGames #Deckofcontradiction #Pitchcar #judgesguild #tsr #orientaladventures
Anything that lets me play the shogun of Greyhawk City is aces in my book
Had some of the best times ever in the mid-late 80s playing in an OA campaign on my oldest brothers huge drafting table with a bunch of his friends rolling over with bags of Taco Bell every week.
Sounds familiar!
Kara-Tur was eventually incorporated into Forgotten Realms.
And why not? Everything else has been.
Missile fire from horseback is not only Mongolian. It’s also a traditional way for samurai to fight.
My brother and I got into this because well it was the 80's and well ninjas. Still have several copies.
I think they put it all in one book to compartmentalize it. Now I want to work this into my OSE game.
Thank you for bringing up this nostalgia
You bet, Myke. Glad you liked it.
My friends & I enjoyed playing Oriental Adventures. E.g. they played ninja & I DM'd them on an assassination mission against the castle of Nakamura, to kill the local daimyo & visiting Shogun.
This was the first AD&D book I got (my DM had the corebooks), and mine is in tatters and falling apart because it was well used. It was the first time I got to be DM running my group of friends through the most cliche samurai movie plot, and we had such a blast, Kara Tur is a great setting and they had an amazing boxed set for 2nd edition.
I haven't seen the 2nd edition set. I'll have to look for it.
Families and Honor sound similar to Factions and a Reputation system. The caste system sounds like a much more in depth version of the relationship between your LG Paladin/Cleric and your non-LG thief.
As Myke says below, it was the 80's, and so, Ninja's and Asian movie madness. I had two players who really leaned into this like crazy, and 1 of them power-gamed liked crazy, and so he loved this book and always wanted me to allow it. Thnx so much for the look back.... great stuff! 👍 🤓
Glad you liked it RDR! Thanks!
When i had my broken jaw wired shut, i played a Korobuku wizard, and since they can't learn common it was perfect for me to roleplay!
Oriental Adventures was such a great book, but it and Unearthed Arcana had a bad glue jobs, so i ended up buying a second one for when my original fell apart!
The martial arts system was the best they ever had!
I purchased this for my 14th birthday in 1987. American ninja was a thing. And as a young teen i was very excited tonuse this book. Ninjas...samurai..sohei....monks etc it had a lot of flavour. Thanks for bringing back the memories. Some of the adventures they came out with at this time were fun.
Glad you liked it.
My college gaming buddies and I had played with the Bushido RPG shortly before TSR's Oriental Adventures came out. We dabbled with Oriental Adventures, but I don't think it was everyone's cup of tea so we did not play it for too long.
I loved using this book. I ran 7 stats for a long time. I had a reputation system based on the Honor system to import that part into my games.
I even liked the birth tables and families and had different ones for varied races in my game until people got super focused on things like builds and such in 3rd edition and didn't want as much randomness.
I had a really good time making schools of fighting with the martial arts rules structures also.
Nice ideas about this book. Its been on my shelf for years and i never actually looked through it. Guess I should have!
I loved that book. It was awesome.
Running different yokai and asian monsters would be such a cool addition to a standard dnd campaign, I'd even go as far as to tie it to an artifact and basically make it like a breaking of a seal that unleashes these foreign(to the standard setting) elements into the story until the plot ideas have run their lifespan
The artifact tie-in is a great idea.
@@theoldwarlock I'd even be as blunt as to say ancient book or scroll, lots of calligraphy on the front, but as nobody in the party likely understands it, you end up opening it and the only way to fix things could be learning the language(interrogating the enemy npcs, discovering documents that help translate it into common tongue) and actually having to have multiple casting classes re-seal it together.
Big fan of OA. Played at least one OA campaign in every edition (including 5e). I even converted every OA monster and setting information to 5e (and you can find it on DMs Guild). Love the D&D treatment of Japan (and that’s what OA really is - spaghetti western samurai movie). It’s the only setting my players ASK ME to run for them every couple of years.
In terms of honor I allowed negative honor as well to allow dishonorable characters. For example all oni has negative honor (which would affect some magic weapon proprieties)
It is a fun setting. Loads of great stuff in it.
@@theoldwarlock 🖖
OA was a favorite setting of mine as a kid. One of my all time favorite adventure modules is OA3: Ochimo, The Spirit Warrior by Jeff Grubb! I actually pulled it off my shelf over the weekend and then stumbled upon your video today. Strange timing.
We're glad the timing was there. I have OA3. I'll have to give it a fresh look.
I had a copy back in the day, and still do. The big problem I had came with integrating the classes with the conventional AD&D classes in a single campaign because they were generally more powerful and had a faster experience progression.
Agreed. I've had to do a bit of tinkering to get things to work in my home-brewed quasi First Edition game.
Awesome episode guys.
Thanks FF!
The insectoid gargantua are inspired by Mothra and Battra.
We knew we'd hear from someone about the insectoid gargantua. Thanks
OA was one of the few AD&D manuals I never got and I always regretted it being a huge ninja movie fan back in the 80s. Having recently watched SHOGUN, and Blue0-Eyed Samurai, I have become interested in getting a copy and trying it out. Thanks for the video guys, you're conversation is very informative and interesting.
Glad you liked it!
I recently picked up a copy off eBay and now after your video I can’t wait to incorporate it into my current campaign. ⚔️🐉
Let us know if it works for you!
Hey, I love Alex's dad joke intros ...
And yes, I have that book in the 1st edition
Shaw Brothers baby. 36th Chamber of Shaolin
Kaiju
Don't encourage him FF.
I've ran a one short with the Oriental Adventures where all my players were ninjas and were trying to assassinate the shogun inside a giant castle and escape.
It was a blast, only 2 out of the 6 ninjas made it out haha.
It would be great to have the oriental classes back in some form, possibly just as a Martial Arts Archetype for each of the core classes. Oriental Barbarian is easy. Shukenja for Druid, Wu Jen for Wizard, the original Kensai put back into Fighter, Sohei for Paladin, Ninja for Rogue. The Bard is getting the College of Dance already. The Warlock could have an ascended Monk as a patron "Pact of the Transcendant One". The core ability of the archetypes is Unarmored Defense using the spellcasting modifier or Wisdom for Martials. The Special Manoeuvres would be gained as the character levelled up.
I was giving a DM advice on his campaign at base camp on a dinosaur dig a couple days ago. It's funny, because I've never been a GM, and have only played in one ttRPG, I think using the "Kids on Bikes" system. But I have helped write and acted in interactive murder mysteries, which have a similar feel in some ways.
As a DM/player of Chinese descent, I would certainly appreciate the incorporation of more culturally Asian inspired settings, and other cultural settings in general, beyond the typical western/northern European fantasy; though this would be highly unlikely these days.
Kara-tur of course has its place within the history of the game, but, if WoTC were to release an updated fleshed out Asian setting in 5e, however unlikely that would be, it would have to be reworked from the ground up to not simply be a mishmash of various Asian locals, tropes and archetypes. A medieval knight was a generally common concept throughout most of Europe, but a Samurai has very specifically Japanese connotations and baggage, that doesn't 100% match in say a Chinese or Korean or Mongolian based cultural setting.
I've never played Oriental Adventures, but I wonder if I could incorporate it into my OSE game. Hhmm... You guys gave me something to think about.
Glad it gave you some food for thought!
Loved it. Of course I'm a James Clavell fan.
Being a Clavell fan at the time would have had a big influence.
I am curious. How Jim organizes his game world and plans his adventures? Is every adventure ever played in Jim's world document for future reference? How was his game world map designed? If he had to start over from scratch what would he do differently from a documentation/design point of view?
Hello Youseph! Wanted to let you know that we answered some of your questions in the podcast we'll be releasing next Friday. Thanks for asking them!
@@theoldwarlock I'm looking forward to that episode dropping.
It seems much of OA is based on martial arts movies and TV. We absolutely loved the book but most of the players weren't interested in role playing enough for the honor system. I have idea mined it for all the things I liked and incorporated into the game. Some of the classes were over powered at higher levels. A high lvl Kensai in our group seemed to be able to kill just about anything in 4 rounds. I have played a Wu-Jen, the +3 to initiative and max KI power was pretty sweet.
We haven't delved deep enough to check character balance, etc. Thanks for the heads up!
I loved playing and running Oriental Adventures. Wished they would make a 5e version.
We didn't realize just how many people really enjoyed the game until the last 24 hours of the video's release. It's been pretty popular.
It would be interesting to see role-playing resources based on other cultures too. I understand there's a Native American rpg called "Crow and Coyote". I can imagine interesting games in the worlds where Anansi, Brer Rabbit, Paul Bunyan, and others of myth and legend are found as well.
I agree. Would love to see North American myths (Bunyan, Brer Rabbit, etc.) put into a gaming resource.
@@theoldwarlock There were several BX D&D Adventures with Native American influence settings.
OA is a core rulebook. D&D ain't D&D without the land of salsa and waterslides.
Haha! I haven’t seen that book since the 80’s. There’s irony to the fact as 5.5 e is being released there is an apparent surge in older (non WoTC) editions.
Was my favorite back in the day, as I have always had a fascination with the orient and it's cultures. I rather enjoyed the Kensai and Sohei classes myself.
Wish I'd known more about it back in the day!
This sure beats the hell out of that Asians Represent podcast.
probably only because you disagree with their conclusions. Other opinions other than your own are also valid so I am open to various points of view, even more critical ones based on cultural observations.
The best self contained game in the D and D series. You didn't need much else witrh this book, especially whyen the setting carried over to LOT5R
This was before WotC decided it was less racist to pretend that Asia doesn't exist!
Amazing video. I'd love to see a video where you talk about second edition and why you stick with the first edition.
Good idea for a video. Thanks!
Great review. Presumably you guys know of the Mystara setting for DnD that incorporated facsimiles of many and varied real world earth cultures from a huge range of historical times periods. I'll check your channel for reviews and overviews.
Glad you liked it! We have the Mystara material, which looks really cool, but we haven't done a deep dive into it. Maybe it's time for a revisit.
My cousin (DM) picked up the OA book in ‘85 because we both loved the martial arts & Kaiju movies and wanted to try out the setting. Still have the book and occasionally refer to it for our campaigns, ideas for NPCs or even characters
There's great information in it. With the internet now, of course, it provides a great starting point for further investigation.
oooh yaman i have my original from the 80s... cool book
It is that.
@@theoldwarlock this book was a huge find for me back in the 80s as it was also the beginning of my martial arts journey, starting in 1981. The Japanese and Korean cultures specifically. So this solidified my connection between my two loves, Karate and DND... :)
Hey guys, nice review of the OA book. The martial arts section is my favorite part of the book, I like it for human/humanoid vs. human/humanoid (S, or M sized) battle. I would not allow it to do much against the majority of large monsters unless the character is using a weapon, or is enlarged by magic. I can't imagine a dragon getting beat up by a weaponless human sized martial arts master, unless the martial art is treated like magic "ki" power. Also, I would be sure to apply the "to hit " adjustment for fist or open hand attacks based on the defender's AC. On the other hand there are locks and submission holds that I think would be effective on someone wearing armor, or perhaps a kick to the side of the knee. or a finger in the eye or throat and other dirty moves.
Thanks for the great comment! We will be spending more time figuring out the MA section of the book. There might be another video taking a closer look.
Hate your Guts Alex, Jim makes the Show... Just Kidding. You both are great.
Thanks WOTT. We appreciate it.
Another good book
Hi there. I'm the guy who had the crazy group who was still playing AD&D 2E and we made it through Dragon Mountain, after four tries, and the same guy who had another player in his group wish for the world's biggest @#$%, and got it.
To be fair, we never really gave much thought to the Oriental Adventures book, either back then, or even now, in part because we have so much going on in our own home grown setting that we really didn't want to make another region of the world we may never travel to anyway. What's more, we have at least one guy who knows more about Japan, China, and Korea than the rest of us do, and he found the book a bit annoying. Personally, my only real issue were the Samurai, but nothing I thought was worth changing, necessarily.
Our general, overall beef was that, as you mentioned, if we were to really incorporate the classes and races in our game, and then have characters with those classes show up in our area of the world, that character would have an even more difficult time interacting with our Gaul/Roman/Celtic setting than even an Arabian style character would, because characters such as the Samurai and the Ninja require to be in the culture, or have some sort of association with it from afar. What is the difference, really, between a Ninja and an Assassin, or just a Thief, if you consider it from an abstract perspective? Same with a Fighter versus a Samurai. The beauty of the Fighter class is that you can make that character however you like, from Roman Gladiators to Greek Hoplites, Japanese Samurai, Pirates, Knights in Shining Armor, even Musketeers. Why couldn't a Fighter be a Samurai, or vice-versa?
It's hard enough putting monks in our game and justifying it. We don't have Chevaliers yet, but we're working toward them.
Just as an aside, we've played a game that featured a very crazy approach to samurai and other Japanese/Chinese/Korean motifs, and it left a sour note with our guy who's very familiar with East Asian culture, and that's Legend of the Five Rings RPG. Oriental Adventures annoyed him, but L5R made him angry. So, after that, we've decided basically that if we're going to incorporate elements of all this in our campaign, he should design it himself.
Shoguns Alex and Jim are here to impart their wisdom.
Hah! If only we had some. Thanks all the same for your vote of confidence.
Integrate it into the campaign but keep those cultures: Kura-tur, Al Qadim, etc..., thousands of miles distant from each other. An individual traveler or exile from a far distant land as a character hook works if the player understands how to play that culture.
What do you guys think of OSRIC?
We really like it as a system because it's so close to the game Jim runs. If you're looking for a basic, complete rule set to use of OSR style gaming, you can't beat OSRIC.
@@theoldwarlock I like it because you can write OSRIC stuff and sell it without worrying about WotC lawyers. And still be AD&D 1e compatible. I'm not sure why you guys don't try that out - something tells me that the Old Warlock must have LOADS of original stuff that you guys could package and market as "OSRIC" compatible.
It'd be a labour of love because you'd be also promoting the old-school game.... let me know if you need help, I'm an old veteran that could use some work.
NINJA's!
I use it as a resource for a part of my world (like you). I think the big complaint (as I understand it) is it combined all of Asia into one messy collection. Seems to me it is Japanese-centric. I think it is a lot like those cheesy Kung Fu or Samuri movies that are fun to watch because they are so bad.
How about Arabian Adventures? TSRs treatment on the near east. A 2nd Edition product, but good resource.
I've never had the chance to look at Arabian Adventures. Maybe it's time.
Didn't Mystara setting books use ancestry and status?
it's a good book but fraught with a lot of cultural inaccuracies' and Western misconceptions about Chinese, Asian and stereotypical Japanese tropes. It's understandable because it's written from the pov of western white guys who aren't experts or culturally sensitive. They did their best. The Asians Represents podcast here on youtube have a great series about what is wrong with this and 3.5 versions of the book, it's worth watching. It doesn't replace reality of course, and that is true. The best thing about it mechanically is the ability checks are featured, and that is still used today (except we used to roll low and in the modern game we roll high.)
Well, they didn't do such a hot job of reflecting medieval western culture either---almost all of it is based on England and Scandinavia of the 11th-14th century. Virtually nothing borrowed from medieval Spain, France, Italy, etc. Nothing from the early Holy Roman Empire, nothing Byzantine, nothing Russian, no Slavic influences. But then, its a game and only a game. It was never intended to provide an education on cultural diversity.
@@mikep6263 agreed on that last point, but you can see if you were in the Asian person's shoes how you would be bothered if you were playing the game and your culture was misrepresented can't you? Beginning with the term Oriental which back then was ok, but also represents "the Orient" and some mystical place of wonder. Not so much in use today because of the connotations.
it was a reaction to Bushido. Bushido was a much better game that truely caputured the spirit of the setting.
Bushido was an historical RPG, with a very small minor in mysticism and fantasy. =^[.]^=
"Better" is a subjective claim. For me, Oriental Adventures is "better", because I love AD&D and Oriental Adventures does not require me to buy & learn an entire new set of rules & it enables AD&D characters to play in an east Asian setting & east Asian characters to play in other settings (e.g. Faerun, Zakhara, etc.).
@@SimonAshworthWood As some one who was studying Asian Studies, it had a real cutlural flavor of pre gunpowder Japan. That is why I said it was much better, the honor mechanics were great.
Ah, the expansion which made monks viable! All they needed to work correctly was a martial art. =^[.]^=
Agreed. Monks are actually fun to play in OA.
How times have change. WoTc could/ would not ever produce anything like O.A.again.
It sounds entirely focused on Japan.
Which is to be expected (from white Americans in the 80s) - but still makes it weird for them to describe it as this all-encompassing thing.
I live in Asia, and none of this is applicable to my region and relevant mythology.
Overall, I would probably recommend role-playing games from Japan, for anyone interested in authenticity (why are you even doing it, if you're not?).
Kara-Tur was quasi-Japan with a liberal helping of other Asian cultures (mainly to fill out the monsters and weapons), which kind of bothered me because I knew the difference. Still, it was perhaps as accurate a representation of old Asia as D&D was of medieval Europe, and sufficient to act as a game setting. =^[.]^=
@@Raycheetah Japan is a bit of an outlier when it comes to its representation in American media.
When I heard the title, "Oriental Adventures", I was expecting much worse (like Warhammer, with its racist caricatures of steppe nomads).
@@user-df5nb8zy7e For all too many Americans, Japan is most easily summarized: Samurai, ninja, geisha, anime, Godzilla. To TRS's credit (at the time), they placed ads in both their own and other gaming periodicals seeking contributors to the project qualified in the subject matter, rather than falling back *too* hard on pop culture assumptions. All of that, of course, was long before the advent of the internet and relatively easy research. I suspect that "Oriental" adventures was chosen for the title to avoid any reference to Japan (or Asia) as a real place and culture, and it also allowed for some leeway when it came to collecting interesting bits of folklore from other regional cultures. =^[.]^=
@@user-df5nb8zy7e I must preface this by saying that I am not pushing any sort of agenda; this is just a legitimate area of interest to me. If a game book for use with _Sword World_ or just based on the Standard RPG System, presented an eclectic pastiche of historicized European fantasy lore, from the Iron Age to the Renaissance, and was titled "Occidental Adventures," what would be your expectations?
P.S. Incidentally, The Standard RPG System has actually had a fairly pronounced influence on my views about TTRPG game design philosophy, generally. Additionally, I also really like _Ryuutama_ as a game.
@@Archaeo_Matt my expectations would of a parody, presenting The West as a peculiar exotic place from a perspective of an enlightened outsider. Think "Hard to be a God", but lighthearted and silly.
Problems: 1) Comeliness is an objectifying and disruptive statistic; 2) Honor is a straight jacket to ensure that players act "Oriental" (making them other than human); 3) The culture presented is a mishmash of Far Eastern cultures with Japanese being the most prominent one.
ruclips.net/video/DrXEbcRUZfE/видео.html
It's a game---not a philosophical dissertation or a textbook on social/cultural mores. It's also a product from 40 years ago--being "offended" at this point is beating a dead horse---all those complaints and arguments were made and forgotten about long ago.
Made is fine, but they should never be forgotten. Yes, bad representation is better than no representation back then, but we need to acknowledge the bad and not repeat it.