You guys have become my go to discussion for my favorite shows. I told you that I found you last year looking for WW talk and as the subjects that you discuss expand so has my appreciation of your insight and rapport. I would love to contribute via patreon but due to a accident I am now disabled and I have no discretionary funds. That will not stop me from watching, liking and heaping as much praise as is proper to this channels creators and it's contributors. That includes the patreon supporters that help keep this thing going. Thank you and please keep up the great work.
The question that nobody has thought to ask. This is definitely the key to the puzzle. But so far all the theories I have heard have been questions people HAVE ASKED before. I suppose it does depend on the context of the show, but none of the ideas that I've heard thrown around really fit the description of a question nobody has asked. From the beginning this show has reminded me of 'Ghost in the Shell' and perhaps that might hint us in the right direction. Are you sure you are who you think you are?
Uppernorwood only close family would need to know. Unless you didnt want them to inherit your money because they are spoiled money grubbers. Except for that one grand kid everyone picks on. Thats the one you let know and secretly control your money. (Takes a rip from the bong) Then you can dress up in spiderman outfits and sleep in bunk beds while your fake titted wife walks around calling you “you ass” Or was that the theme for the toy with richard pryor. Im a little high.
More so if it’s a disease that would be cured by transplanting harvested host organs/body parts, otherwise you would still need to be okay with “dying” as your consciousness doesn’t transfer. Only loved ones would benefit from a total host transfer as they can continue having that person in their life in some capacity however the human (now host) would still be dead.
This. I think hosts can be taken in a different meaning, as in the physical construct is a host for the mind of people. Thus allowing immortality, the timeless theme. Maybe this is what Ford meant by humans have circumvented evolution (I hope to God I used that word correctly). However, Ford and Dolores also sees the mental limitations of the human mind in regards to our vices, obsessions, and other 'worldly attachments'. These are the ugly parts of the human mind that are ever so apparent from the guests at the park. However, this doesn't mean that the hosts are innately better either as some have not 'evolved' past their programming to develop a true 'self'. This echoed by Dolores stating that not all of us are meant to make it, as in not all hosts have reached full sentience. On a side note, is anyone else getting serious Joanne of Arc vibes from Dolores? As in she is leading everyone to a slaughterhouse..
I wonder if it's the opposite story as Future World. Maybe William decided to create flesh and blood "robots" using DNA from guests (I thought this after seeing the scene where William watches in horror as Logan cuts open Dolores to show him she is just a robot inside). Next, he figured out a way to insert AI code into those cloned human bodies. Thus, you can create and control a "real person" irl. This is something that could be very useful for Delos (but that William eventually realizes was "a mistake") and also a weapon for Dolores (if you could transfer AI into a human body, it would make it impossible to tell the difference between host and human. It would be a "weapon" in the sense that it makes the hosts invisible to humans. How do you fight a war against an enemy you can't see?).
I agree that the data mining/blackmail motives for Delos are too obvious....and possibly short-term and secondary goals. Ultimately those goals would be self defeating. I agree that the DNA gathering is key. I believe that what William had built was a host building facility using the guests' DNA. If Dolores gets to the facility first, she can create copies of all the wealthy and most powerful people of the world. I also believe that we'll find out that Bernard is the prototype of the hosts created with actual human DNA.
That shot of the synthetic eye being created gets me every time, makes me shiver in excitement over CGI and the amazing sophistication of our generations TV and digital experiences. Bravo HBO and its creators, I love you.
There's another point that could back up this theory: Maybe that guy who approached William and told him about how his program saved his sisters life... maybe it didn't. Maybe his sister died and they replaced her with one of those clones without that man knowing. They could have visited the park together (a dying wish maybe?), collected her DNA, and when she was taken to wherever it is people go to be cured, a 'clone host' was waiting to replace her - William implemented the motion to collect park goers DNA because Park goers would be the only ones able to afford his program, therefore he would have every person on record, no chance of a random accident. Maybe that's why he waited for James Delos to die, so he'd be the only man alive knowing the true meaning of his cure (doubtless though as he'd need workers to run that huge operation) If that could happen, maybe Ford knew, as not much ever happened in Westworld without Ford knowing, thus Delos unintentionally furthered his goal of his wanting the hosts to replace humanity. If they found out about his radicalism, maybe that was why they were trying so hard to remove him from the company in season one, thus explains William and Ford's rivalry - a business man versus an idealist (you turned my dream into a way to make dirty money, now I'm going to expose you and reveal the army your schemes helped me create) - and could be a lead up to the new 'game' Ford has created for William in season two. ...Just a thought I had while watching this discussion, you guys rule!
I just realized something in rewatching the 1st episode. The Delos dude mentions there are 100s of guests "still out there", says he wants to help them, and asks Bernard what happened. Because he's staring at the dead hosts, we assume Bernard's "I killed them, all of them" is about the hosts. But what if he's answering the question about the guests?
The problem with the theory of replacing people of power with hosts is the hosts don't age whilst obviously we do. I imagine someone of power who was replaced looking the same as they did ten years after would arouse suspicion
I think they're storing dna and footage of the guests to observe their behaviors for cloning, but not so they can use them for the company's bidding. I think they're planning on transferring the conscience and mind of the wealthiest guests to their cloned host versions so that they're immortal. I find that far more alarming than any other theories I've heard and would definitely freak everyone out. Season one was always talking about the hosts discovery of their conscience, which made you think if these hosts look like humans, act like humans and think like humans, aren't they human? So it would make sense that the unanswered question could be "If we can create a human conscience, can't we transfer one?"
This season so far keeps making me think the end game is going to be similar to Black Mirror’s episode San Junipero where they’re uploading consciousness into a major database. No diseases, no death
I keep hoping that they’re not going to end up re-doing Futureworld or BM’s San Junipero. Especially since those stories are already out, it would just feel like a cop-out.
Chaos is a ladder… LOL I love it! What if William’s plan was to have his father-in-law continue to live after his physical body dies by transferring his consciousness into one of the hosts? I have no idea how that would work, but I think there’s something even larger at play that we will not be able to guess until near the end. At least I hope it’s something cool! Great video guys, thank you!
I love that u guys are doin Westworld, I also love that u guys are still doing Game of Thrones; almost all channels I'm subscribed too stopped doing both. Nerd soup has been getting me too work and getting me threw breaks. I would just like to say thank you. For real thank u
I'm 7 minutes into this video and i want to say I've missed you Nerd Soup. You were a companion to sn 1 and I'm just so happy to have you back with your theories!!!
i really don't like the theorie of replacing humans with hosts. 1. recycle the plot of the movie future world would be really lazy writing, i think the showrunners are better than that 2. what happens when a serious accident occurs, such as an open broken leg. A doctor should be able to tell a difference. 3. replacing powerful humans has a major problem, you don't know their secrets, passwords, what kind of relationships they have. So you would have a "clone" that have no idea how to run a multibillion company
San Sanich - I don’t like it either. It’s just too obvious. So maybe that’s the board’s goal but not William’s. He could be using their goal as cover for a greater goal.
So, if the DNA detector at the entrance didn't find an issue with Bernard, does that mean that he somehow _has_ DNA? Or (more likely) does it mean that Ford knew about this super-secret place all along and reprogrammed it to misread Bernard specifically? Because it's got to be one or the other.
yeah if you think about DNA, its a string of molecules and proteins. Its the amount, the kind, and the order that sets up distinctly different sequences leading to a distinct hooman. So if they have blood and organs its likely that they are organic (though 3-d printed/grown in vitro), so they still need proteins and shit to tell them what to do. Otherwise they would be fully synthetic and everything they are is imitation material and then yeah they wouldnt have dna. Obviously its all fiction so there will be gaps in the science. I think it's interesting that they have electric brains but organic bodies. But we've seen electric signals make body parts work in our lifetime, so that's plausible. But I'm also like, how is this door handle getting and reading DNA from a hand-hug?
I was going to comment that clone/infiltration theory on your last discussion video, but it seems like you guys nailed it. I think it's the most fitting theory, even though there's still a strong possibility that the writers can totally surprise us.
So Westworld (host tech) means at least 3 things to three groups: guests (slaves for their sin), the board (power/money) and management (Ford-evolution, William- medical cures, meaning). And why gather guest DNA? (Oh and by the way, the MIB facial wounds healed over night without a trace and he can ‘cheat’ by using a host repair tool on his bullet wound). I think Delos has learned how to repair someone’s DNA and then reintroduce it to that person (think about the new opening sequence where something is injected and grows). So if you’re rich enough to go to Westworld , Delos will offer to sell you health (through now clean, but probably unmutating and unevolving, DNA. But is your DNA ‘natural’ anymore? (Think of Genetically Modified Food fears!). So the world’s elite now not only have health denied to the masses but are ‘synthetic ‘ (or better, ‘unnatural ‘). Yes, that could be a weapon, setting off a class and xenophobic bomb worldwide. Throw in fears of drone host armies for fun. And presumably such modified elites can still reproduce. So hosts presumably could now too (mother and child in the opening sequence). Yep, that’s a MAJOR mistake. And now what DOES being human and alive mean? This probably isn’t quite on target but I’ll bet we see some of it by the end of season 2.
My theory is that Westworld was originally meant to be one season. So when it became such a hit and was given a new budget, the writers had to start writing again. Perhaps they analyzed things like you have. Maybe not. However I think you should copyright your ideas into a novelette, and make them pay royalties if they use any of it in the future.
Nah mate. This was a big-budget, long game HBO series from its infancy. The first season was always meant to set the scene, like a prequel, to the rest of the story.
Initial idea was for 5 seasons, then the producers believed in three acts if it wasnt that popular but first season was meant to be an almost closed episode. Abrahams was pursuing the rights years ago but the autor didnt want to sell
My wife and I came to a similar conclusion. Delos likely started with extorting powerful guests with evidence of their misdeeds in the park. Imagine if a CEO of a company was caught in a brothel. Even if he/she was only "screwing hosts" it would still look very bad. Along the way they eventually were able to take those experiences and the guest's DNA in such a way that they could make a replacement. With enough information about someone's behaviors, choices, and DNA one could essentially make an almost identical copy of them. One of the lines used in the show when one says something isn't real is, "If you cannot tell the difference, does it matter?" This is a similar idea to what happens in Fallout 4. A powerful, hidden group is trying to dominate the outside world by replacing important people with clones. Ford and Bernard have a different agenda to William and Delos. Ford and Bernard were more interested in the progress of the hosts towards human levels of self-awareness. Ford saw their suffering as necessary to their evolution while Bernard disagreed and tried to kill himself and destroy the work to prevent their further suffering. William and Delos are in it for the power and control over the outside world. They could effectively make themselves gods on earth if they can replace anyone with subservient clones. I'm not sure if Delos is aware of the weapon though. William knows about it and is going towards it. Delos is more interested in the 35 years of data connected to their IP which suggests that they don't know the weapon exists. The weapon is probably a way to control the hosts globally. So if the replacement theory is accurate one could essentially control the world.
Chaos is a ladder? Crossover? WESTworld? WESTeros? What if Westeros was just another one of these "worlds"? What if the weapon shes talking about is the Night's King? What if that's the reason why the White Walkers are invading? What if the Wall was created to separate two different sectors.... two different worlds? Dolores is seen resurrecting the dead hosts, cloud this be foreshadowing her controlling the White Walkers, and the eventual invasion? She did say she wants to dominate everyone! The man in "black" made the weapon and now thinks it was a mistake? So he'll be looking to stop Dolores and her White Walkers trying to get across the Wall.... so no wonder he would set up an elite guard unit.... an elite guard unit who are also dressed in black i.e. The Night's Watch? These was also a reference to a dragon on the last episode, could this be yet another hint?! ........................ OMG it's all coming together now .... it's all making sense!!! *runs around like a crazed lunatic*
Creating guest simulator/predictior models is pretty decent. If a global decision maker goes there, create a predictive model...in the future, the predictive model is able to predict/hocus pocus sci fi/ guess their very important decisions. Replacing guests is too heavy handed for a Disneyland, but predicting guests future business decisions feels manageable.
You have it backwards. William's company invented the limb/organ printer (for human applications) and then gave the TEC to ford to use in place of much of the mechanics. This is why MIB is so happy to risk death and fight ferociously, he has a contingency plan to come back to life (more game lives).
Could you please make a video in where you explain the very basics and premises of Westworld? Why was the park built in first place? What exactly were the goals of Ford and Arnold and what went wrong? How does that all make any sense?
!0:10 That video is _not_ from a host "logging a sexual encounter". Whatever camera that caught this is a good 15 feet away and behind him. If it was a POV shot, that would be one thing... but then the audience might not be able to tell what depraved thing he was being called out on. They needed a good not-too-graphic establishing shot. So the revelation _should_ be "You're all on camera all the time." Instead, it's like the host automatically linked up with the closest security camera and told it to record this thing... I guess.
Watching from the top corner of the room?! It's a simple misstep of words, but definitely doesn't quite work out. It's definitely security cemra-like footage, not a host POV.
I've looked at the clip again. It's seems to be a mounted cam in the corner of the room. If she logged a sexual incounter it would give a time and place, so it would be easy to check cam footage. But i have to agree not using her own Eye footage seems a bit odd.
The question no one has asked? That’s a tough one as humans have asked questions for a long time. Maybe the question is: Is earth a simple vacation for a race of greater beings? Or Have we created a new race, in the Hosts? Or Are the hosts superior?
I wonder if one of the parks could be ''Lostworld''. Could it be a park dedicated to DHARMA Initiative/ Plane crash survivors or a bunch a dinosaurs? Who knows?
This is really smart ... I was thinking something similar, but not all strung together like this! It seems likely, especially with the original movie sequel plot.
Given the plot of the original film’s sequel Futureworld, I would figure collecting a personality profile and DNA record of every person that visits the park (particularly those with power and influence) would be an ideal way to create duplicates to replace those key people to control policy in government that allows Delos to increase in power and dominance globally.
I like both your last two theories. It appears that they have not yet achieved true resurrection (i.e. cloning), but their technology could probably replace every human organ and body part apart from the brain. After 30+ years they must have surely managed to make their prosthetics highly bio-compatible. But I do not really see how that possibility would be considered a weapon. It could cause some mild to moderate chaos and unrest, but it could easily be managed with excuses along the "Our technology is very expensive", "We spend tens of billions of dollars each year in R&D" etc etc lines. If that was a weapon it would be a very weak one. And people have a short memory and a nearly blind trust in their politicians, who would also be involved. On the other hand, the clone replacement theory would be _huge,_ and if it was widespread it could shatter the world. Is this not connected to their failed resurrection efforts though? Even Ford did not actually resurrect Arnold with Bernard, he just used Arnold as a basic template, while copying his appearance. Bernard fooled people of being human, not of being Arnold. A powerful government leader clone would not just need to fool everyone that he is a human, he would also need to fool them that he is the cloned leader. Since it appears that their very first test subject for resurrection (technically cloning), James Delos, was never successfully cloned, and his half broken clone was alive until the last episode, how could they have made any progress with other cloning efforts?
I think the main plot is intellectual property. But There are so many twists and turns. I'm betting Ford is still alive too! He made a replica to die for him! Season two is definitely hard to follow, gotta pay close attention, but it's also intriguing! Big fan of the show! Delores is pissed!
It's more about Arnold and Fords game, not Delos! The others as well as the host are all trying to figure out what that is exactly! Or it could be a mirror of the US governments strategy on it's citizens! Can't wait to find out! Keep the season coming!
Wouldn't cloning only take care of appearance and major mannerisms etc.? If DNA doesn't hold memories, especially most recent memories, then suddenly you have a large group of clones with what appears to be amnesia after all going to the same place (westworld).
It's kind of a jumble. Forgive me if I mistake one theory and use it to contradict another. 1) Drone host & P. Abernathy - That one is like baking a cake and now trying to steal the recipe. Delos knows how to make hosts, they know how to catalog their guests DNA, what exactly do they need Ford or the park for after 30 years? 2) PR disaster? In earlier sci-fi, this would have been the goal like in Futureworld or a James Bond movie, but this was written today. And today, the public is woefully pacified. Think of the numerous stories of data breeches, domestic spying and technology twisted upon us and the collective outrage barely registers as a should shrug. Why would a company extrapolated from today's conditions be threatened by bad press?
I don't think they would be blackmailing the guests. How could it be a world without consequences if they keep the footage of them doing deplorable acts. People wouldn't go to westworld anymore if they knew they're being recorded. If they just once leaked a video they would go bankrupt very quickly as people no longer rock up knowing it could lead to their downfall.
I like the theories, the one about replacing the powerfull people with "hosts", is what i was thinking too and its pretty damm awesome if it really is going on. Love your videos btw, keep it up!
What about the aging process? Delos would have to replace a person's/host's body with a slightly aged one, every once in a while in order not to raise any suspicion.
I think it’s easy... The question is... Is can you transfer your mind into a host!?! Ask me ( and I get no one has!!! ) I really feel that when it’s all over westworld will be nothing more then a prequel to blade runner!!!
All that could be very much correct but think of what would be a more symbolic of that. The location/weapon that Dolores and MIB are heading for is a place where there’s another host Dolores as well as a host child with the DNA mixture of William. The real Dolores would see this child as evidence that they have powerful leaders out in the real world that could be host and there is no way to identify who is who and she’ll sit back and watch the world burn as paranoia sinks in.
Maybe they were able to use WW technology to help create nanotechnology that can destroy all diseases in humans. There could also be something in WW that can be use to turn that technology against humanity.
It's just silly to think you could gather the required information to make a replacement clone, what happens when a casual acquaintance asks you about something, or an old friend you hadn't thought of in years tries to reminisce? It would only take a single clone to get exposed and the whole corporation would get obliterated. And you can't grow an identical body with DNA--there is way the fuck too much environmental effects you'd have to get just right. Are the machines supposed to make a human body instead of hosts bodies? That's a huge stretch.
I think the show creators did say something (maybe jokingly) about a crossover with game of thrones and westworld in some way. I am pretty sure I read something along those lines
Perhaps what Delos is really doing is building replacements of all these rich folks and having them live/test in a physical simulation of the real world so they can replace real people... or give those people a chance to live forever as a host. Either way I would think that all the data they are gathering is for a giant machine learning experiment to improve 'fidelity' of these recreated people.
Bernard mentions how Dolores and her people will lead ahead without him, and a wave of water surrounds him, sweeping him away. This is a clear biblical reference to the parting of the red sea. In which Dolores and her people are saved, and escape Egyptian rule, whereas Bernard represents the Pharaoh that gets caught up in the red sea coming together again.
In an image in this vlog the man in Black is portrayed next to Ford as the symbol of dark next to the symbol for light (Ford). I think this is incorrect. Darkness should be represented by Bernard since he is actually a robot. Ford is a symbol for God the creator who had infinite potential. Bernard is Arnold the fallen Angel. Darkness. He is a robot who has become aware that he is trapped in a world of limitations. Also known as Hell. This will motivate him to seek a way out. A return to heaven. A return to the connection that is unique to humans.
I don't believe Elsie is dead. She was at the season 2 premiere and has been posting stuff about WW on her Instagram. Those things plus never actually seeing her body leads me to believe that she is still alive.
I believe it's season 2 episode 2 that William cut a bullet out of his hand or arm and then used one of those torch like objects to seal his skin back up like they do the host. Is it possible William is also a host?
They are replacing guests with hosts. That is also what the ghost nation is doing. They take people and then their "ghosts" come back to the park.....and go home. Then they have hosts controlling things outside.
I think Dolores turning the Host clones into allies is a stupid theory. Delos has complete control over these hosts. Dolores could tell them their fate and Delos would just override and wipe out their memory much like Ford and Bernard. I think if there are clone hosts out there, Dolores making this public would be the only plan. I doubt Delos is going to put their hq for controlling these hosts in west world. It just sounds way to easy and stupid. Maybe it is just an achieve, with lots of info as you stated earlier.
My two theories. 1- Ford is still alive. But his agenda is to become God. No matter what the Hosts will still listen to him even when they are becoming their own self-conscious beings. The Hosts goal will be to take over the world leaving only Hosts as the one's who inherit the world. With all of the non-Hosts gone Ford will take his role as God and rule all. Well, that will be his plan. I'm sure it won't go that way for him. Even if the Hosts take over. I'm sure something will go wrong in his plan and the Host will kill him. 2- The agenda behind the park in immortality. When William was throwing the "retirement" party his father-in-law mentioned that he was ill. Maybe evolving the Host to the point where one's consciousness can be uploaded into a created Host that never ages and yet another plan for man to become more God like. Remember the season one Church? Churches represent the God(s) of the religion in which they gather the flock for. Maybe the church played as a foreshadowing of the agenda.
when maeve was on a suicide mission to get back to the butchers (felix and sylvester), a human choked her and she died. so i do think they can suffocate.
I think every person who goes in is replaced by a host in the real world, the secret that William has hidden is the preserved bodies of those who have been replaced.
Am I wrong to think that a middle-aged William would be perfectly played by Viggo Mortensen? Would bridge the look difference between Ed Harris and Jimmi Simpson well.
It would be really cool if they could bring back JFK or MLK but I think they would need to be alive first to get their conciousness scanned, right? So DNA to me isn't going to create fake human hosts with "fidelity". They would have to get scanned while alive in the park which could easily be done. The Delos people could just sneak into a guests room and scan them while asleep one night.
You guys have become my go to discussion for my favorite shows. I told you that I found you last year looking for WW talk and as the subjects that you discuss expand so has my appreciation of your insight and rapport. I would love to contribute via patreon but due to a accident I am now disabled and I have no discretionary funds. That will not stop me from watching, liking and heaping as much praise as is proper to this channels creators and it's contributors. That includes the patreon supporters that help keep this thing going. Thank you and please keep up the great work.
Whoa whoa whoa -
Elsie DEAD?
Don't speak too soon, boss...
And now we know you were right :)
Elsie is alive damn it. We didn't see her actually die, just get choked out. Until I see a body I will not believe she is dead.
What if she came so hard from being choked out that she evaporated...
I agree! Also there was a message from her on the Delos website if you play/hack it a bit
Scott I'm glad someone else mentioned this little event they ran during their off-season. I thought I was making stuff up for a second.
Lisa Joy also confirmed in February she is alive still
Even if you saw a body it would so easy for that to be host.
It is always good to see you guys go back to your roots, Westworld commentary.
The question that nobody has thought to ask. This is definitely the key to the puzzle. But so far all the theories I have heard have been questions people HAVE ASKED before. I suppose it does depend on the context of the show, but none of the ideas that I've heard thrown around really fit the description of a question nobody has asked. From the beginning this show has reminded me of 'Ghost in the Shell' and perhaps that might hint us in the right direction.
Are you sure you are who you think you are?
Doctor Who ?
Dude. The hosts ARE the cure. A sick person goes in. A perfectly healthy person(host) walks out.
Tubbs 1971 this only works if everyone is aware they are hosts. You can't keep that secret for long.
Uppernorwood only close family would need to know. Unless you didnt want them to inherit your money because they are spoiled money grubbers. Except for that one grand kid everyone picks on. Thats the one you let know and secretly control your money. (Takes a rip from the bong)
Then you can dress up in spiderman outfits and sleep in bunk beds while your fake titted wife walks around calling you “you ass”
Or was that the theme for the toy with richard pryor. Im a little high.
Immortality is within reach if hosts replace the human body. Just be sure to back up the files. Is this the prequel to Altered Carbon?
More so if it’s a disease that would be cured by transplanting harvested host organs/body parts, otherwise you would still need to be okay with “dying” as your consciousness doesn’t transfer. Only loved ones would benefit from a total host transfer as they can continue having that person in their life in some capacity however the human (now host) would still be dead.
This. I think hosts can be taken in a different meaning, as in the physical construct is a host for the mind of people. Thus allowing immortality, the timeless theme.
Maybe this is what Ford meant by humans have circumvented evolution (I hope to God I used that word correctly). However, Ford and Dolores also sees the mental limitations of the human mind in regards to our vices, obsessions, and other 'worldly attachments'. These are the ugly parts of the human mind that are ever so apparent from the guests at the park.
However, this doesn't mean that the hosts are innately better either as some have not 'evolved' past their programming to develop a true 'self'. This echoed by Dolores stating that not all of us are meant to make it, as in not all hosts have reached full sentience.
On a side note, is anyone else getting serious Joanne of Arc vibes from Dolores? As in she is leading everyone to a slaughterhouse..
I wonder if it's the opposite story as Future World.
Maybe William decided to create flesh and blood "robots" using DNA from guests (I thought this after seeing the scene where William watches in horror as Logan cuts open Dolores to show him she is just a robot inside). Next, he figured out a way to insert AI code into those cloned human bodies. Thus, you can create and control a "real person" irl.
This is something that could be very useful for Delos (but that William eventually realizes was "a mistake") and also a weapon for Dolores (if you could transfer AI into a human body, it would make it impossible to tell the difference between host and human. It would be a "weapon" in the sense that it makes the hosts invisible to humans. How do you fight a war against an enemy you can't see?).
Westworld is an immortality engine for the guests
I agree that the data mining/blackmail motives for Delos are too obvious....and possibly short-term and secondary goals. Ultimately those goals would be self defeating.
I agree that the DNA gathering is key. I believe that what William had built was a host building facility using the guests' DNA. If Dolores gets to the facility first, she can create copies of all the wealthy and most powerful people of the world. I also believe that we'll find out that Bernard is the prototype of the hosts created with actual human DNA.
That shot of the synthetic eye being created gets me every time, makes me shiver in excitement over CGI and the amazing sophistication of our generations TV and digital experiences. Bravo HBO and its creators, I love you.
There's another point that could back up this theory: Maybe that guy who approached William and told him about how his program saved his sisters life... maybe it didn't. Maybe his sister died and they replaced her with one of those clones without that man knowing. They could have visited the park together (a dying wish maybe?), collected her DNA, and when she was taken to wherever it is people go to be cured, a 'clone host' was waiting to replace her - William implemented the motion to collect park goers DNA because Park goers would be the only ones able to afford his program, therefore he would have every person on record, no chance of a random accident. Maybe that's why he waited for James Delos to die, so he'd be the only man alive knowing the true meaning of his cure (doubtless though as he'd need workers to run that huge operation)
If that could happen, maybe Ford knew, as not much ever happened in Westworld without Ford knowing, thus Delos unintentionally furthered his goal of his wanting the hosts to replace humanity. If they found out about his radicalism, maybe that was why they were trying so hard to remove him from the company in season one, thus explains William and Ford's rivalry - a business man versus an idealist (you turned my dream into a way to make dirty money, now I'm going to expose you and reveal the army your schemes helped me create) - and could be a lead up to the new 'game' Ford has created for William in season two.
...Just a thought I had while watching this discussion, you guys rule!
I just realized something in rewatching the 1st episode. The Delos dude mentions there are 100s of guests "still out there", says he wants to help them, and asks Bernard what happened. Because he's staring at the dead hosts, we assume Bernard's "I killed them, all of them" is about the hosts. But what if he's answering the question about the guests?
ShadowDogProduction Bernard is gone. Dolores put her egg brain in another Bernard body. She led them to their slaughter like a good Judas steer.
I think that Bernard's wife it's actualy a robot sitting in one room somewere in the park just waiting for Bernard to call when he feels like it.
Robert said that it was him, talking to Bernard.
cardboard2night Yup, Bernard's "wife" is just a computer avatar for Ford to talk to Bernard and make sure he's not becoming self-aware again.
The problem with the theory of replacing people of power with hosts is the hosts don't age whilst obviously we do. I imagine someone of power who was replaced looking the same as they did ten years after would arouse suspicion
if they have gone that far, they could just renew the host bodies with an aged ones after several years, mind intact right?
I think they're storing dna and footage of the guests to observe their behaviors for cloning, but not so they can use them for the company's bidding. I think they're planning on transferring the conscience and mind of the wealthiest guests to their cloned host versions so that they're immortal. I find that far more alarming than any other theories I've heard and would definitely freak everyone out. Season one was always talking about the hosts discovery of their conscience, which made you think if these hosts look like humans, act like humans and think like humans, aren't they human? So it would make sense that the unanswered question could be "If we can create a human conscience, can't we transfer one?"
I just watched episode 4, my theory was right!
This season so far keeps making me think the end game is going to be similar to Black Mirror’s episode San Junipero where they’re uploading consciousness into a major database. No diseases, no death
Morgan Reagan and Arnold is in the database !
Yes! I can’t wait to find out!! ( :
I keep hoping that they’re not going to end up re-doing Futureworld or BM’s San Junipero. Especially since those stories are already out, it would just feel like a cop-out.
Chaos is a ladder… LOL I love it! What if William’s plan was to have his father-in-law continue to live after his physical body dies by transferring his consciousness into one of the hosts? I have no idea how that would work, but I think there’s something even larger at play that we will not be able to guess until near the end. At least I hope it’s something cool! Great video guys, thank you!
I love that u guys are doin Westworld, I also love that u guys are still doing Game of Thrones; almost all channels I'm subscribed too stopped doing both. Nerd soup has been getting me too work and getting me threw breaks. I would just like to say thank you. For real thank u
I'm 7 minutes into this video and i want to say I've missed you Nerd Soup. You were a companion to sn 1 and I'm just so happy to have you back with your theories!!!
i really don't like the theorie of replacing humans with hosts.
1. recycle the plot of the movie future world would be really lazy writing, i think the showrunners are better than that
2. what happens when a serious accident occurs, such as an open broken leg. A doctor should be able to tell a difference.
3. replacing powerful humans has a major problem, you don't know their secrets, passwords, what kind of relationships they have. So you would have a "clone" that have no idea how to run a multibillion company
San Sanich - I don’t like it either. It’s just too obvious. So maybe that’s the board’s goal but not William’s. He could be using their goal as cover for a greater goal.
They reused key plot points from the film in season 1, why wouldn't they do it again?
Plus ...would no one notice that they're not aging?
But they could use brain mapping of the human?
You guys have become my FAVORITE channel. I binge watch your vids at work.
So, if the DNA detector at the entrance didn't find an issue with Bernard, does that mean that he somehow _has_ DNA? Or (more likely) does it mean that Ford knew about this super-secret place all along and reprogrammed it to misread Bernard specifically? Because it's got to be one or the other.
yeah if you think about DNA, its a string of molecules and proteins. Its the amount, the kind, and the order that sets up distinctly different sequences leading to a distinct hooman. So if they have blood and organs its likely that they are organic (though 3-d printed/grown in vitro), so they still need proteins and shit to tell them what to do. Otherwise they would be fully synthetic and everything they are is imitation material and then yeah they wouldnt have dna. Obviously its all fiction so there will be gaps in the science. I think it's interesting that they have electric brains but organic bodies. But we've seen electric signals make body parts work in our lifetime, so that's plausible. But I'm also like, how is this door handle getting and reading DNA from a hand-hug?
Yeah I researched that part after but wasn't sure where I left this comment. It's certainly plausible.
"we now have to figure out how to doors work!"
Dude, I have spent *years* trying to figure out how doors work >.
I was going to comment that clone/infiltration theory on your last discussion video, but it seems like you guys nailed it. I think it's the most fitting theory, even though there's still a strong possibility that the writers can totally surprise us.
what if the rich and powerful people are transferring their consciousness, (i.e. thoughts, memories) into clone hosts
kind of sound like the plot of the island or get out
Elsie was seen in trailers for this season!
Flashback?
So Westworld (host tech) means at least 3 things to three groups: guests (slaves for their sin), the board (power/money) and management (Ford-evolution, William- medical cures, meaning). And why gather guest DNA? (Oh and by the way, the MIB facial wounds healed over night without a trace and he can ‘cheat’ by using a host repair tool on his bullet wound). I think Delos has learned how to repair someone’s DNA and then reintroduce it to that person (think about the new opening sequence where something is injected and grows). So if you’re rich enough to go to Westworld , Delos will offer to sell you health (through now clean, but probably unmutating and unevolving, DNA. But is your DNA ‘natural’ anymore? (Think of Genetically Modified Food fears!). So the world’s elite now not only have health denied to the masses but are ‘synthetic ‘ (or better, ‘unnatural ‘). Yes, that could be a weapon, setting off a class and xenophobic bomb worldwide. Throw in fears of drone host armies for fun. And presumably such modified elites can still reproduce. So hosts presumably could now too (mother and child in the opening sequence). Yep, that’s a MAJOR mistake. And now what DOES being human and alive mean?
This probably isn’t quite on target but I’ll bet we see some of it by the end of season 2.
My theory is that Westworld was originally meant to be one season. So when it became such a hit and was given a new budget, the writers had to start writing again. Perhaps they analyzed things like you have. Maybe not. However I think you should copyright your ideas into a novelette, and make them pay royalties if they use any of it in the future.
Nah mate. This was a big-budget, long game HBO series from its infancy. The first season was always meant to set the scene, like a prequel, to the rest of the story.
Initial idea was for 5 seasons, then the producers believed in three acts if it wasnt that popular but first season was meant to be an almost closed episode. Abrahams was pursuing the rights years ago but the autor didnt want to sell
Hahahahaha Gotta love the innanet lmao
My wife and I came to a similar conclusion. Delos likely started with extorting powerful guests with evidence of their misdeeds in the park. Imagine if a CEO of a company was caught in a brothel. Even if he/she was only "screwing hosts" it would still look very bad. Along the way they eventually were able to take those experiences and the guest's DNA in such a way that they could make a replacement. With enough information about someone's behaviors, choices, and DNA one could essentially make an almost identical copy of them. One of the lines used in the show when one says something isn't real is, "If you cannot tell the difference, does it matter?"
This is a similar idea to what happens in Fallout 4. A powerful, hidden group is trying to dominate the outside world by replacing important people with clones.
Ford and Bernard have a different agenda to William and Delos. Ford and Bernard were more interested in the progress of the hosts towards human levels of self-awareness. Ford saw their suffering as necessary to their evolution while Bernard disagreed and tried to kill himself and destroy the work to prevent their further suffering.
William and Delos are in it for the power and control over the outside world. They could effectively make themselves gods on earth if they can replace anyone with subservient clones. I'm not sure if Delos is aware of the weapon though. William knows about it and is going towards it. Delos is more interested in the 35 years of data connected to their IP which suggests that they don't know the weapon exists.
The weapon is probably a way to control the hosts globally. So if the replacement theory is accurate one could essentially control the world.
Boy we could have round table conferences talking about Westworld!
Chaos is a ladder? Crossover? WESTworld? WESTeros? What if Westeros was just another one of these "worlds"? What if the weapon shes talking about is the Night's King? What if that's the reason why the White Walkers are invading? What if the Wall was created to separate two different sectors.... two different worlds? Dolores is seen resurrecting the dead hosts, cloud this be foreshadowing her controlling the White Walkers, and the eventual invasion? She did say she wants to dominate everyone! The man in "black" made the weapon and now thinks it was a mistake? So he'll be looking to stop Dolores and her White Walkers trying to get across the Wall.... so no wonder he would set up an elite guard unit.... an elite guard unit who are also dressed in black i.e. The Night's Watch? These was also a reference to a dragon on the last episode, could this be yet another hint?! ........................ OMG it's all coming together now .... it's all making sense!!! *runs around like a crazed lunatic*
considering the opening credits the WEAPON could be self reproducing hosts
San Sanich - Agreed! I think some version of this is going to be a major element of the final reveal.
Blade Runner... Rachael!.
Noice !!+
Creating guest simulator/predictior models is pretty decent. If a global decision maker goes there, create a predictive model...in the future, the predictive model is able to predict/hocus pocus sci fi/ guess their very important decisions. Replacing guests is too heavy handed for a Disneyland, but predicting guests future business decisions feels manageable.
You have it backwards. William's company invented the limb/organ printer (for human applications) and then gave the TEC to ford to use in place of much of the mechanics. This is why MIB is so happy to risk death and fight ferociously, he has a contingency plan to come back to life (more game lives).
Could you please make a video in where you explain the very basics and premises of Westworld? Why was the park built in first place? What exactly were the goals of Ford and Arnold and what went wrong? How does that all make any sense?
!0:10 That video is _not_ from a host "logging a sexual encounter". Whatever camera that caught this is a good 15 feet away and behind him.
If it was a POV shot, that would be one thing... but then the audience might not be able to tell what depraved thing he was being called out on. They needed a good not-too-graphic establishing shot. So the revelation _should_ be "You're all on camera all the time." Instead, it's like the host automatically linked up with the closest security camera and told it to record this thing... I guess.
OMG my thoughts exactly.
It could have been another host, watching from a distance. Seems like the simple answer to me. Peace all.😀
Watching from the top corner of the room?! It's a simple misstep of words, but definitely doesn't quite work out. It's definitely security cemra-like footage, not a host POV.
And I remember thinking this the very first time I saw the scene, so it's surprising it wasn't caught by editing
I've looked at the clip again. It's seems to be a mounted cam in the corner of the room. If she logged a sexual incounter it would give a time and place, so it would be easy to check cam footage. But i have to agree not using her own Eye footage seems a bit odd.
The question no one has asked?
That’s a tough one as humans have asked questions for a long time.
Maybe the question is:
Is earth a simple vacation for a race of greater beings?
Or
Have we created a new race, in the Hosts?
Or
Are the hosts superior?
I stopped mid-video to check if Elsie is dead.
SPOILER: Her status is still unknown but probably alive
The Talent I know but have to remember the context lol. Glad to have her back
I wonder if one of the parks could be ''Lostworld''. Could it be a park dedicated to DHARMA Initiative/ Plane crash survivors or a bunch a dinosaurs? Who knows?
Pretty convincing! I definitely see Ford "coming back " as a clone - probably, and ironically, at the hands of Bernard....
This is really smart ... I was thinking something similar, but not all strung together like this! It seems likely, especially with the original movie sequel plot.
I think Delos is a wepons manufacturer.
I haven't even watched the second season and yet I watch every Nerd Soup video.
Given the plot of the original film’s sequel Futureworld, I would figure collecting a personality profile and DNA record of every person that visits the park (particularly those with power and influence) would be an ideal way to create duplicates to replace those key people to control policy in government that allows Delos to increase in power and dominance globally.
The biggest question is do the Hosts put pineapple on their pizza's?
The people that programed them where fucked up in the head, so im sure that some of them do it.
The Gutenberg that's the real Turing test. No sane human would do such a thing
The hosts are really already in our world and they are actually the ones who invented the Hawaiian pizza recipe (pineapple + ham)
"Chaos is a ladder" lmao awesome!
I like both your last two theories. It appears that they have not yet achieved true resurrection (i.e. cloning), but their technology could probably replace every human organ and body part apart from the brain. After 30+ years they must have surely managed to make their prosthetics highly bio-compatible.
But I do not really see how that possibility would be considered a weapon. It could cause some mild to moderate chaos and unrest, but it could easily be managed with excuses along the "Our technology is very expensive", "We spend tens of billions of dollars each year in R&D" etc etc lines. If that was a weapon it would be a very weak one. And people have a short memory and a nearly blind trust in their politicians, who would also be involved.
On the other hand, the clone replacement theory would be _huge,_ and if it was widespread it could shatter the world. Is this not connected to their failed resurrection efforts though? Even Ford did not actually resurrect Arnold with Bernard, he just used Arnold as a basic template, while copying his appearance. Bernard fooled people of being human, not of being Arnold. A powerful government leader clone would not just need to fool everyone that he is a human, he would also need to fool them that he is the cloned leader.
Since it appears that their very first test subject for resurrection (technically cloning), James Delos, was never successfully cloned, and his half broken clone was alive until the last episode, how could they have made any progress with other cloning efforts?
Charlotte is a host. So is William, that's his "new game" he has no idea. His conversation with his daughter, was definitely a "fidelity" test.
I think the main plot is intellectual property. But There are so many twists and turns. I'm betting Ford is still alive too! He made a replica to die for him! Season two is definitely hard to follow, gotta pay close attention, but it's also intriguing! Big fan of the show! Delores is pissed!
There was already a Westworld-GoT crossover in the 3rd episode. Blonde Armistice shows up with a flamethrower and Hector says, "She has a dragon!"
It's more about Arnold and Fords game, not Delos! The others as well as the host are all trying to figure out what that is exactly! Or it could be a mirror of the US governments strategy on it's citizens! Can't wait to find out! Keep the season coming!
Wouldn't cloning only take care of appearance and major mannerisms etc.? If DNA doesn't hold memories, especially most recent memories, then suddenly you have a large group of clones with what appears to be amnesia after all going to the same place (westworld).
It's kind of a jumble. Forgive me if I mistake one theory and use it to contradict another.
1) Drone host & P. Abernathy - That one is like baking a cake and now trying to steal the recipe. Delos knows how to make hosts, they know how to catalog their guests DNA, what exactly do they need Ford or the park for after 30 years?
2) PR disaster? In earlier sci-fi, this would have been the goal like in Futureworld or a James Bond movie, but this was written today. And today, the public is woefully pacified. Think of the numerous stories of data breeches, domestic spying and technology twisted upon us and the collective outrage barely registers as a should shrug. Why would a company extrapolated from today's conditions be threatened by bad press?
Elsie isn't dead, though. At least, it hasn't been confirmed. She could be heard in a broadcast on the Delos website after the finale.
The question no one has dreamed of asking is Can "they" Dream on their own? Consciousnesses!
I don't think they would be blackmailing the guests. How could it be a world without consequences if they keep the footage of them doing deplorable acts. People wouldn't go to westworld anymore if they knew they're being recorded. If they just once leaked a video they would go bankrupt very quickly as people no longer rock up knowing it could lead to their downfall.
I also have thought of all these theories. I can't wait to see what it is!
I like the theories, the one about replacing the powerfull people with "hosts", is what i was thinking too and its pretty damm awesome if it really is going on. Love your videos btw, keep it up!
Wait. Wait. Wait your telling me that the head of security was... Named Ashley
2 Things:
*Ford lives
*if not - which host was he produceing in his creepy cellar
(or did i miss that in s1/forgott about the revealing ? )
My favorite content on youtube, can you guys do what you guys will think will happen in the next avengers?
Great show can't wait to see what they have in store for us. As for the weapon, I'm leaning toward the clones theory!
What about the aging process? Delos would have to replace a person's/host's body with a slightly aged one, every once in a while in order not to raise any suspicion.
I think it’s easy... The question is... Is can you transfer your mind into a host!?! Ask me ( and I get no one has!!! ) I really feel that when it’s all over westworld will be nothing more then a prequel to blade runner!!!
A little Rampage reference can make any conversation a little classier.
All that could be very much correct but think of what would be a more symbolic of that. The location/weapon that Dolores and MIB are heading for is a place where there’s another host Dolores as well as a host child with the DNA mixture of William. The real Dolores would see this child as evidence that they have powerful leaders out in the real world that could be host and there is no way to identify who is who and she’ll sit back and watch the world burn as paranoia sinks in.
Maybe they were able to use WW technology to help create nanotechnology that can destroy all diseases in humans. There could also be something in WW that can be use to turn that technology against humanity.
It's just silly to think you could gather the required information to make a replacement clone, what happens when a casual acquaintance asks you about something, or an old friend you hadn't thought of in years tries to reminisce? It would only take a single clone to get exposed and the whole corporation would get obliterated.
And you can't grow an identical body with DNA--there is way the fuck too much environmental effects you'd have to get just right. Are the machines supposed to make a human body instead of hosts bodies? That's a huge stretch.
Hey maybe GoT is a section in Westworld somewhere now wouldn't that be something 😁 obviously it's not but still kind of a cool thing to think about.
earth ocean ha! Perfect!!
Marshal Arnold HBO inception
So which characters are really guests??? Jon, Dany obviously meybe bran, get to experience being a god. What character would be the worst as a guest??
I think the show creators did say something (maybe jokingly) about a crossover with game of thrones and westworld in some way. I am pretty sure I read something along those lines
Apparently they wanted to have a nap of westeros in a screen in the background as an Easter egg but I have yet to see it.
Perhaps what Delos is really doing is building replacements of all these rich folks and having them live/test in a physical simulation of the real world so they can replace real people... or give those people a chance to live forever as a host.
Either way I would think that all the data they are gathering is for a giant machine learning experiment to improve 'fidelity' of these recreated people.
Maybe the theme of the show is Humans trying to become imortal through the Hosts, but then realize it was a huge mistake, because imortality is a gift
Bernard mentions how Dolores and her people will lead ahead without him, and a wave of water surrounds him, sweeping him away. This is a clear biblical reference to the parting of the red sea. In which Dolores and her people are saved, and escape Egyptian rule, whereas Bernard represents the Pharaoh that gets caught up in the red sea coming together again.
Greatest explanation ever!... BRAVO!
Thank you for another great video and the humor 😄
In an image in this vlog the man in Black is portrayed next to Ford as the symbol of dark next to the symbol for light (Ford). I think this is incorrect.
Darkness should be represented by Bernard since he is actually a robot.
Ford is a symbol for God the creator who had infinite potential. Bernard is Arnold the fallen Angel. Darkness. He is a robot who has become aware that he is trapped in a world of limitations. Also known as Hell.
This will motivate him to seek a way out. A return to heaven. A return to the connection that is unique to humans.
I don't believe Elsie is dead. She was at the season 2 premiere and has been posting stuff about WW on her Instagram. Those things plus never actually seeing her body leads me to believe that she is still alive.
I wonder if ford figured out a way to upload consciousness into host or into a network and he can inhabit any host at any time. Immortality!
I wonder if the "weapon" we are looking at is the sea Delores uses to wake AI; the space entirety masking the data mine and clone tech...
I'm with you on your theories, great job.
Any thoughts on the relevance of Gen 1 hosts versus hosts made from the "new" material? Also Delores/Delos??
I believe it's season 2 episode 2 that William cut a bullet out of his hand or arm and then used one of those torch like objects to seal his skin back up like they do the host. Is it possible William is also a host?
Love your voice and all of the recap videos. Here and gots.
They are replacing guests with hosts. That is also what the ghost nation is doing. They take people and then their "ghosts" come back to the park.....and go home. Then they have hosts controlling things outside.
Please post the new Westworld review/Explain !!
I can’t wait any longer
It was the nitro. One of her memories was about the nitro storyline.
I think Dolores turning the Host clones into allies is a stupid theory. Delos has complete control over these hosts. Dolores could tell them their fate and Delos would just override and wipe out their memory much like Ford and Bernard. I think if there are clone hosts out there, Dolores making this public would be the only plan. I doubt Delos is going to put their hq for controlling these hosts in west world. It just sounds way to easy and stupid. Maybe it is just an achieve, with lots of info as you stated earlier.
“The host’s brain...”, i.e., their SYNTH COMPONENT!
i looooooovw this theory. and honestly i hope it is so! no other twist would be as cool
My two theories.
1- Ford is still alive. But his agenda is to become God. No matter what the Hosts will still listen to him even when they are becoming their own self-conscious beings. The Hosts goal will be to take over the world leaving only Hosts as the one's who inherit the world. With all of the non-Hosts gone Ford will take his role as God and rule all. Well, that will be his plan. I'm sure it won't go that way for him. Even if the Hosts take over. I'm sure something will go wrong in his plan and the Host will kill him.
2- The agenda behind the park in immortality. When William was throwing the "retirement" party his father-in-law mentioned that he was ill. Maybe evolving the Host to the point where one's consciousness can be uploaded into a created Host that never ages and yet another plan for man to become more God like.
Remember the season one Church? Churches represent the God(s) of the religion in which they gather the flock for. Maybe the church played as a foreshadowing of the agenda.
when maeve was on a suicide mission to get back to the butchers (felix and sylvester), a human choked her and she died. so i do think they can suffocate.
Mimi that's cause the writers and employees wrote it so that she could die of suffocation.
What if Westworld is actually happen on Kobol. Hosts are actually Cylon. Delores was the leader of the revolution and then parted away to find Earth.
Given bernards face blindness, I HOPE the drone hosts aren't blank white slates, and are...something else?
Ilike the evolution revolution concept Little Finger .
the weapon is a switch that gives her control of all the world leaders that have been replaced with "clone" hosts
I think every person who goes in is replaced by a host in the real world, the secret that William has hidden is the preserved bodies of those who have been replaced.
My only problem with the clone theory is how do they obtain the thoughts and memories of the people they are supposed to replace?
Anyone think that the hosts have no military applications? Anyone? Yeah its pretty obvious what Westworld is for. to test android soldiers.
Meh. Doesn't quite fit the tone and the way the series is narrated if you ask me.
Go watch some 80-90-ies movies. The idea of the supersoldiers is so heavily overused there we don't need another one.
Am I wrong to think that a middle-aged William would be perfectly played by Viggo Mortensen? Would bridge the look difference between Ed Harris and Jimmi Simpson well.
It would be really cool if they could bring back JFK or MLK but I think they would need to be alive first to get their conciousness scanned, right? So DNA to me isn't going to create fake human hosts with "fidelity". They would have to get scanned while alive in the park which could easily be done. The Delos people could just sneak into a guests room and scan them while asleep one night.
Best explanation ever
The secret is they have a million hosts out in the real world