Well done! Few people picked up so many clues so early on since season I and you nailed it, man. You must be the janitor hiding in the closet of the showrunners' meeting room. 😂 Just want to say I enjoyed your analysis and video very much. Keep up the good work! 👍
What a big brain puzzle master. What do you guys think of the idea that the world of Westworld is a global fidelity test of the real world. Those westworld posters of a machine kneeing in the sand keep giving me apocalypse vibes.
Standing O for HaxDogma. Other WESTWORLD fan channels just recap or explain what's already happened but Hax makes predictions. He often sticks his neck out, launches bold theories, but he does the research to document and back his claims. You gotta respect that. This is exactly how I love to overthink my entertainment, which is why I'm hooked. That all said, Hax, I'm thinking about taking a class or two on the tattoo arts. I mean, you don't want that needle being handled by a novice, right? ;-P
So glad you decided to make a detailed vid about Hale .. This really makes a lot of sense .. I wonder if they somehow plan to incorporate the Future world plot of replacing Prominent people with their host doubles ..
Hey HaxDogma, I just wanted let you know that you are making extremely high quality content, keep up the great work. As a big fan of the show I get really excited when I see one of your videos in my RUclips notifications!
It's amazing how much foreshadowing is in Season One for what's happening now. It's giving me a greater and greater appreciation for the incredible intricacy of the writers' work.
It is a good theory, although I believe you are mistaken about Charlotte's role within the company. She is in fact THE highest up you can go on the board. In the scene where her and Bernard are in the underground lab, when she first logs in to request extraction, her ID shows up on the screen as "Chairperson of the Board". That along with Theresa introducing her to Sizemore as "Executive Director of the Board, means she is in fact the boss, not just a member of the board (With the exception of William who has the most shares). This may add to your theory though, because there's no one else from Delos that would be higher than her to deal with, in regards to selling the info.
Oh sorry so my word choice was specific for this reason, yea she’s the head honcho on the board. But that’s still just the board for Delos Destinations. Delos incorporated still has a bounty of higher positions that she could be trying for and thus, not at the top!
HaxDogma Another small issue is that the Delos research group does have cradle access. Ford knew the reconstructions worked in the cradle, but the “real” test caused almost immediate decay.
Sure they have access to the cradle we see, but that doesn't mean they are uploading people's minds to it. Seem's like a real good way to make your secret project not secret haha With that being said, I'm pretty positive they do have their own cradle for testing.
I assume Delos is a fairly large company. Why not an interdepartmental rivalry? One finds department heads and board members back-stabbing each other in real life already. Or maybe the third party is Grace/Emily? She knows Charlotte, and was invited to the gala. Her trip to Raj World and her hunt for its bunker/lab could have been a coordinated effort to get data from some/all of the parks, and not just from Westworld.
Really enjoy your analysis. Keep up the good work. Submitted for your approval... as others have mentioned, I believe Logan is behind Charlotte Hale's espionage. Ford is trying to both resist Logan, and assist the MIB to return to his original "white hat" consciousness regarding the sentience of the hosts. Thank you.
vandoolittle Fair point. Ford specifically told him (via Young Ford host) that he must go back to the beginning if he is to win the game that's meant for him. That, if he's looking forward, he's facing the wrong direction. Extrapolating on your belief, if William/MIB is to face his origin, William will have to face Logan again (in some form or another).
Really well thought out - you convinced me - I say that when you presented the idea at first, my first thought was that's rather whack, but you methodically not only filled in the details but also provided some possible answers to what I've always considered were serious logic errors in the show and attributed to sloppy writing.
If you press 'login' on the fake delos website and type charolette's 'XOmegaCH' code, you get onto a restricted webpage! It makes me question that she's talking to a third party when she sends that and asks for instructions. It's apparently her delos identity
There's no reason to think that her and the third-party can't communicate using the Delos system with a hidden back door. There's no reason to think that she couldn't have manipulated someone in Delos IT to assist her since she's a board member.
I appreciate the work you put in the content is amazing! Great theory that I fully support. Also Ford telling Dolores to go get her daddy would make sense if he knew all this was going on. You joining the chat for in deep geek anytime soon again? You guys are great.
Hayley Gorbet oh no he didn't tell her to I meant if he was orchestrating things in the cradle that influenced Dolores but I think she could be running off of memories again. Maybe William gave her a full to tour. I don't think she's apart of the mesh or cradle anymore.
Ok. I have a couple of reasons why I think just Delos is involved. 1. Charlotte sure has spilled the beans to several people. I know Lee is a food, but still. 2. Delos has been developing this Reasearch Project for many years. If the Board sent Charlotte in to retrieve data, how can she get away with it. I think she expects to keep her job. She mentioned Ashley Stubbs next review won't b good. 3. Why hasn't she just cut off Peter Abernathy's head instead of going through all this mess to keep him in tact. 4. The Delta Team sent in seems to know how everything works in Westworld. Even if they are not wearing any Delos logo. You could definitely b right! I just feel like Charlotte has been telling to many people to keep her espionage a secret. I also think Delos is just interested in keeping hold of the IP because Ford has been storing it somewhere they don't know. I think Ford suspected Charlotte from the beginning. Anyway, that's my 2 cents!! See ya later on Before the Dust Settles!! Great job getting 17,000 subscribers. That's awesome!! You deserve it!!😍🐴🔫🌄🐂🔪🌅💕😎
On a side note, been reviewing Season 1. Ashley Stubs is a robot. He was there working the control room accomodating young William, Logan, & Delores during their adventure in Pariah. And of course he's there now on present day.
Steely Dan Delores was by herself. Reliving and re-enacting her past experiences with William. Like she clearly has many times before. Ashley is in present day. Now the question is are we seeing the past event OR watching Delores memory of her first time with William? I'm leaning towards a memory because of her seeing herself and the hallucinations. She was sleep walking all these years.
Hey dude I'm at the 5:40 mark in the video. They would not be able to compress data unless they could get to it. Theoretically, if they could compress it on site and store the compressed data on the host brain, they would be able to unpack it on a storage base that could support it. I have not watched the show yet, but I am a computer scientist. It would make sense that if William, having hidden the research from his successors, had also not revealed to them how the data was stored, the would need an onsite team to figure that out and how they actually could compress it. They get little glimpses of data and access to some metadata but none of the actual data unless the physically travel to the location where it is stored! Really cool and accurate depiction of how something like this could work.
Truly masterful… 100% right on and Charlotte is certainly commensurately unlikable. However, there is also the intense possibility of our being deliberately mislead… So we’ll stay tuned and thank you for all you do for the west world metaconversation...👏🏻😝👏🏻
I think Charlotte is a host. When the Delos scanned her, she nervously looked at the reader to see if she was clear. There was a similar look on Bernard's face when he first touched the "DNA sniffer" door handle in episode 1. Also she was the only one that wasn't shocked that Bernard was a host. I think she's an advanced host like Bernard, and on the season finale trailer where it shows her leaning over Bernard as he's sitting, I think she's going to reveal it.
Hey there! just found your channel - love it! Great analysis/theory I too think Charlotte is a mole of some sort within Delos. Like you allude to, the team she brings in act very differently than the "real" Delos extraction team. Like they're hired mercs, not Delos security forces.
I think Charlotte is following Delois prime reason for investing. 1 to sell immortality as an end product 2 to be able to observe park guests and replicate them in secret and use that imitation of a real human for marketing research. The reason for the secrecy is the legal nature of what they are doing which they overcome by selling immortality Also the park original creators find it morally disgusting and will attempt to stop them As the bid to Delois as to why he should invest is that in the future this will be the only reality as everyone will want to purchase immortality
Another lore friendly explanation why data can fit one core - most of the place in the core is taken by behavioral programming and body control, actual hard data is the smallest part of it.
My question is, why is Dolores so interested in getting her “daddy” back. Is she looking for the info that Charlotte is trying to send out of the park? Forgive me, I’m a little slow on the up take. Have you all ready discussed this?
She wasn't actively looking for her daddy till he found him in the base. Then she realized that the explosive fight was just a diversion to steal abernathy then she figured out her dad was something the outsiders need thus her rushing into full speed to stop whatever they are doing... i think
I was jumping up and down. I couldn’t believe what I was watching, my wife was trying to figure out why I kept yelling “I am theory god” to my dogs. It was a perfect night... 😂
I kind of always assumed Charlotte was working for a third party as a gut instinct. Her actions just don't make sense, but I certainly didn't put it all together this well. Excellent job!
Do you think testing for “fidelity” in the Cradle simulation with Bern/Arnold rather than in a physical location with James Delos has to do with the cognitive disconnect of Delos’ sick mind in a healthy body contributes to his breakdown? In other words, does having someone’s consciousness run through a simulation help keep them more intact than they would be if this same consciousness was placed in a physical host body?
Regarding the host in the cradle vs. Abernathy's mind, it is NOT the same thing, the brain pods, have their own operating system, and in the cradle, these "minds" are running and interacting with each other in narrative. the copies in Abernathy's mind are NOT running or interacting with one another, its just backup. an analogy would be your PC vs the software on it. I cannot run 1000's of applications at the same time. but I sure can have 1000 application on my PC. regarding Charlotte, I still have this suspicion she is in one way or another, working in benefit of the hosts, whether she knows it or not. she might be a host in a human body, or working for a company that was/is run by Ford. for example, so in a way, she is doing his bidding. Someone in the park, was working with a party on the real world, to steal data. we know that, only thing of real value, is the Immortality prospect, I just do not see some other company opening up a theme park to compete with Delos, we know the real money is in immortality. and military use. Ford believed the host are the future of mankind, the next step in evolution. so he definitely has interest in extracting data. So the big question is, is Charlotte working for some unknown 3rd party, or is she just one of Fords pawns, host or human?
I got this feeling too, but I was more wrapped up in my theory that Grace (Emily) and Charlotte may be connected. Mostly just a desire I have to see Grace working against her father's company in a more complex way, with Charlotte being her partner/ally/employee/bae... And as I watched this video, I had a thought: Considering where we are, could Lee be calling Charlotte where we left off with him? And on that, we may see Charlotte and Maeve interact, and I'm not sure why, but I would love to have a large reveal involving those two. We have been connecting dots with Charlotte being related in some way to Bernarnold, but could Maeve's mother/daughter story arc actually involve her somehow? I don't have reason to think so, I just like throwing hail marys that could be potentially huge plot developments.
I wondered where the Delta Team was when Delos' team finally arrived, and was about to search for the episode when this video was linked on reddit. This theory is very convincing, I would be surprised if ends up being wrong. Good find!
Ok, I thing you just overthought that one, perhaps because you forgot Charlotte-William scene in S01E09. First of, Delos is not the company controlling the park. Westworld (and five other parks) belong to the company called Destinations Inc (on a delos website you can query Delos, and robot will tell you that it's "The corporate parent of our Destinations subsidiary"). Now according to the story, Arnold and Ford created their little startup with cool AI and toys, but they didn't have enough money to make a "release", and as any other startup nowadays, they started looking for investments. In S02E02 they approach Logan Delos and then back in season 1 Logan and William go to the park in order to inspect their possible investment. Now when you invest in something, you don't get to own everything. Like those investors who put millions into Uber - they don't have access to the database with your destinations and credit cards info. But they can put a person into board of directors, which Delos did, putting Charlotte and Theresa to the board, but technically it's a different company with Ford having more control (because William was voting to let Ford do whatever - S01E09). When people invest into something, they may put come extra requirements, like "we will be the first to get the profit" for example. Delos was giving their money, and in return they demanded to build a special program, that would put the human mind into machine like we saw in S02E04. And Ford did that, but he didn't allow to break data security perimiter - everything was made within the park by the park employees and special hosts. And according to S02E04 - Bernard new that all along, he just didn't remember that in S02E01. So what we have: 1. Delos invest money and demand a research in return 2. Destinations Inc (Ford) is doing the research, but don't have the full progress (S02E04). All the research is kept inside the park, secure and encrypted. 3. William was protecting Ford, and didn't allow Delos's board of directors to replace him (S01E09) 4. William's wife dies, he stops to resurrecting James Delos and orders to retrive whatever data was collected in that hidden lab with data storage. 5. Since Delos will eventually make Westworld more casual now, William decides to get to the last thing he didn't see - hidden narrative about the Maze. 6. Most of Destinations Inc are loyal to Ford, so data perimeter is secure. Theresa fails to get data to Delos sat. Theresa is killed. 7. Chatlotte decides to smuggle the key to the research data inside the Abernathy's head (S01E08) 8. William stops protecting Ford (S01E09) so on the next board of directors Ford will be replaced with someone more loyal to Delos. 9. Ford foresee that outcome and he feels bad about all that "Arnold was right" things, so he decides to let things loose and set the world on fire. And eats the bullet (S01E10) 10. The people who were killed in the mess were not Delos executives. They were Destinations Inc executives. Some of them were from Delos. Some might have been outside investors. 11. Delos doesn't want some army to come and save the day, because authority may find out that Westworld experience was not so private all along. And then Zuckerberg in Senate would look like a Disneyland trip. So Delos wait to see that data is secure and is outside the park. Destroying it is not as bad as letting it into wrong hands. And Charlotte is doing that exactly. PS. Ashley looks like that at Coughlin because they are from different companies. It's a "cop looking at the FBI arrival" look.
Haven't you noticed at 10:20 and 16:13 they block out the bottom left of the card for Bernard? And since the soldiers are Delos. They HAVE to know who he is. William knows. So you know he told his staff, just in case something happens. HaxDogma your idea a couple weeks ago about Bernard being in the cradle and being manipulated by Delos. Great job because it's looking to be true.
Charlotte is working for Emily. Emily is a human/ host hybrid and Dolores is her true birth mother. They smuggled her out and she was raised by William and Juliet. Emily’s hybridized DNA is what helped Delos achieve their next step for the human immortality project. Emily is there to find answers and her birth mother, Dolores? Charlotte could be a human/ host hybrid as well?
the thing I don't get about her character is she is introduced as a seemingly innocuous executive type character and little by little in each subsequent episode she knows more and more about the park, and programming, and code etc. down to where hidden extraction points are and if the timeline is somewhat in order when we first meet her, Sizemore had never met her before, so how does she have so much experiential knowledge of the park and its day to day operations if she's someone who it seems had never even been there. If she had spent any significant time there then surely Sizemore who is heavily involved in operations, would have recognized her at the bar where we first see them meet.
So one of the main focuses this season is immortality, and there's a line spoken to stubbs by one of the ghost Indian people that you only live as long as people remember you. We know that not even Ford was able to replicate his mind in a body, but he could function and therefore live forever in the cradle. What if all the info being collected is to turn past guests who want immortality into hosts? To be stored in the park as hosts until theyve successfully been able to transfer consciousness into host bodies. I doubt it would be a situation where a guest's mind is trapped in a host loop (although fidelity does come to mind when I say this out loud), they might all be in a different park?
Is it possible to consider that there is an Anti-Delos hacktivist group operating? I don't think Charlotte would be originally a member because Delos would be keeping tabs on everyone big brother style but if she turned double agent because of [insert backstory here]
Subscribed, I was a believer in a second company. I watched a second time and I see how your theory is larger than mine. Shes definitely with a second military group and has admin rights to the existing delos folks. This theory will be the cliffhanger at the finale ?
One problem: Since Stubbs was there for the first extraction team's arrival and demise, he would surely have mentioned them to Strand. Yet Strand doesn't appear suspicious of Charlotte. Coughlin's team was clearly working under her direction, so if that team wasn't really Delos, Strand should suspect Charlotte of what he later accused Stubbs of doing -- selling Delos IP to others.
MeriwetherJ Unless Strand doesn’t ask and Stubbs doesn’t say as much. We don’t know if Stubbs was suspicious, just curious at that point! So why would he bring it up again if he didn’t connect the dots fully? And Strand may not have brought this up yet! He may have just been curious also not exactly sure what to think but when his boss tells him that Stubbs and Bernard should be considered for the murder of Theresa he brings them in not thinking it could be her. All just a theory, but that’s one way it could be explained!
I still buy your theory, but this is a gaping hole. I can't imagine the first extraction team not coming up in early debriefs with Strand . Too many critically important things happened on that team's watch. The hosts proved how dangerous they are when they successfully invaded the mesa and killed nearly all Delos staff, including fully-armed QA and Coughlin's far more skilled swat team. The Cradle was destroyed, the Delos computer system shut down and Dolores slipped away with Abernathy's brain case. (On the other hand, Strand's lieutenant showed him the photo of the blown-to-bits Cradle as if it were news...)
My crazy mind would fit into the story , near the end of course, that Charlotte is actually Maeves daughter. She was taken out of host mode; because she was chosen as test subject of host growth experimentation. Her actual role is to covertly help her mother, Maeve, escape from the park. How's that for imaginative? Don't worry, I won't quit the day job I don't have. :) -Cheers.
Ah this makes a lot of sense, I was wondering why Dellos would wait that long to go in and why she would have to deliver the package before any help would come.
Just an aside. I thought in episode seven when Delores was about to attack Charlotte that for just that moment when she had real terror in her response she felt real. She was feeling what the hosts felt probably most of the days of their existence. For the briefest of moments Charlotte felt human and then it vanished. Then I reflected again on how the hosts where made to feel that terror daily, year in year out. Damn... Is there really none of the humans working in the park that gets that? Thats a bit of a flaw, that none of the security services even think about the possibility that they are dealing with extremely intelligent pissed off AI and should be worried about survival even as a species and fuck the package.
Swear the season will end with dolores having to kill her daddy then herself or something with the same drama-sentience effect, catalyzing maeve (practically leaving her no choice) to continue the technical necessities in their fight for freedom
so is peter saying "i need to get to the train" because thats teddy's role in the cradle? who's the dude saying the religious stuff he stared singing when he was kidnapped? peters still in there though he was talking about sweetwater to dolores
They shouldn't need to send a Charlotte because I can't believe this company has no way to send it via satellite. Yes there is a communication embargo that they control. No way they don't have a way to send updates to the operating system and Security softwre. Also would a company physically send that every time. Well as sending someone both places every time they hire/fire someone. They may tried using that way in the past. Most likely the attempt they caught, but left no clue who did it.
♥ Hax, u r far and beyond the Best Reviewer of Westworld..your theories are Brilliant and equal to the Brilliance of the Magnificent WESTWORLD Phenomenon that deserves a Reviewer of your Calibre..works of Vanguard Cinematic Art require keen Minds like yours to illuminate for others The Mastery and levels of Creativity at work here in WESTWORLD....Bravo Hax ♥
I think it only makes sense to run the fidelity test in an irreplaceable reality. Imagine that in a computer simulation it is quite easy to fix a glitch in a program; whereas when the same glitch happens in our reality, the program has to be synchronised with real-life robotic nervous system of a body which has been copied after a human nervous-system- ergo it has to overcome the same cognitive dissonance issue a real human would go through- without the help of a simulation that fixes the perspective of the reality around you as soon as there is a problem in your program. There is no logic loop when everything is run by the same simulation including you and the world around you. This is how Ford can exist as a program in the Cradle, but not as a host in reality.
Dolores is still controlled by Ford and he knows Carlotte is the betrayer. Thats why Dolores wants his father back. Actually its Ford who doesn't want to lose the data and IP - maybe because its also his consciousness, memories and own personal data in there.
There was a glitch with the closed captions while Elsa and bernard were in the Cradle. Whenever Elsa was speaking the captions displayed Charlotte or Hughes. Could bernard be malfunctioning and perceiving Elsa but it's actually Charlotte?
I’ve always been bothered about host brain capacity versus hard drives. If the pearl is such an awesome storage technology, why isn’t it used in their other systems? Why is it easier to sneak out an entire host rather than just the pearl? And if Abernathy’s brain is full of IP data, how is there still room for a thin character AND remnants of his prior personalities?
Charlotte may be working for the Koch brothers, they're getting pretty old, they would want some of that immortality, and they're rich enough. Her login name is KOmegaCH, which could be looked at as greek 'chi' + omega + ch, or loosely 'Koch'. Unfortunately for this theory to work, they'd have to live long enough that they'd likely already have immortality. Or, it could be Roman numeral 10, giving 'loch' for the Loch Ness monster, that's the big secret, they're building a Nessie, and why they flooded that valley. Or maybe I'm not getting enough sleep.
also I'm thinking at the valley beyond there is another cradle where humans are living just like the hosts cradle. maybe Bernard will deliver ford there.
Well well well... would you look at that...
I see you, Dogma
Well well well done! Very impressive insight... a sub and like for sure!
Well done! Few people picked up so many clues so early on since season I and you nailed it, man. You must be the janitor hiding in the closet of the showrunners' meeting room. 😂
Just want to say I enjoyed your analysis and video very much. Keep up the good work! 👍
Hats off to you sir
nice, not bad! you can be proud
Hax you called this SO EARLY ON 👌🙌🏻
Yes!!!! I’m so glad you remembered 😭 I’m so happy right now!!
What a big brain puzzle master. What do you guys think of the idea that the world of Westworld is a global fidelity test of the real world. Those westworld posters of a machine kneeing in the sand keep giving me apocalypse vibes.
What if Logan faked his death, started the third party company to get back at William for ruining his life
I would love this... so much!
Standing O for HaxDogma. Other WESTWORLD fan channels just recap or explain what's already happened but Hax makes predictions. He often sticks his neck out, launches bold theories, but he does the research to document and back his claims. You gotta respect that. This is exactly how I love to overthink my entertainment, which is why I'm hooked. That all said, Hax, I'm thinking about taking a class or two on the tattoo arts. I mean, you don't want that needle being handled by a novice, right? ;-P
Hahahaha, take the class! Hurry! 😂 Thanks for your support brother, couldn’t do it without you man.
So glad you decided to make a detailed vid about Hale ..
This really makes a lot of sense ..
I wonder if they somehow plan to incorporate the Future world plot of replacing Prominent people with their host doubles ..
The Nolans would never be so obvious!
Jeff Boerst oooh spoke to soon didn't you hahaha .. this new episode would say otherwise ;)
Your content is great. Solid editing and pacing, no rambling. Quality viewing.
Thanks Johnny! :D
Wow, theory confirmed today!
I want you to be wrong only because I want to see you get that tattoo
Edit: I also think your right
Tyler L To clarify, only if they knew about the data and still allowed two weeks to go by before arriving!
HaxDogma You gotta get it tattooed in rainbow writing if you are wrong tho! 😂
i think your right tho lol
Cody Nunez Hahaha, we will see what happens! 😂
HaxDogma if you lose make sure the tattoo is washable and not perminant
The Programmer of video games that's called cheating
Nerd Soup brought me here. This is an amazing channel. Keep it coming! Bravo my new friend.
I’m with you Hax, you’ve been picking up pieces of this in all your earlier videos but it was cool to see it all laid out like that.
Thanks Kira, really glad you enjoyed it!! :D
Hey HaxDogma, I just wanted let you know that you are making extremely high quality content, keep up the great work. As a big fan of the show I get really excited when I see one of your videos in my RUclips notifications!
Dario, thank you so much for letting me know this! I hope I do not let you down anytime soon! 👌
It's amazing how much foreshadowing is in Season One for what's happening now. It's giving me a greater and greater appreciation for the incredible intricacy of the writers' work.
Nerd Soup brought me here... Your awesome videos are what's keeping me here
You are just the BEST theorist that exists.
@scarlettveronica No, that would be In Deep Geek! ;)
It is a good theory, although I believe you are mistaken about Charlotte's role within the company. She is in fact THE highest up you can go on the board. In the scene where her and Bernard are in the underground lab, when she first logs in to request extraction, her ID shows up on the screen as "Chairperson of the Board". That along with Theresa introducing her to Sizemore as "Executive Director of the Board, means she is in fact the boss, not just a member of the board (With the exception of William who has the most shares). This may add to your theory though, because there's no one else from Delos that would be higher than her to deal with, in regards to selling the info.
Oh sorry so my word choice was specific for this reason, yea she’s the head honcho on the board. But that’s still just the board for Delos Destinations. Delos incorporated still has a bounty of higher positions that she could be trying for and thus, not at the top!
HaxDogma Another small issue is that the Delos research group does have cradle access. Ford knew the reconstructions worked in the cradle, but the “real” test caused almost immediate decay.
Sure they have access to the cradle we see, but that doesn't mean they are uploading people's minds to it. Seem's like a real good way to make your secret project not secret haha
With that being said, I'm pretty positive they do have their own cradle for testing.
I assume Delos is a fairly large company. Why not an interdepartmental rivalry? One finds department heads and board members back-stabbing each other in real life already.
Or maybe the third party is Grace/Emily? She knows Charlotte, and was invited to the gala. Her trip to Raj World and her hunt for its bunker/lab could have been a coordinated effort to get data from some/all of the parks, and not just from Westworld.
I was referred here from Nerd Soup. I'm diggin your channel so far.
Thanks Kyle, Nerd soup is awesome! :)
I think you've nailed it. She's always been suspect. Great video!
wow fantastic video!! very well put together and jammed pack with great info!
Thanks Chrissy, your support = bee knees.
I would love it if she is working for Logan’s company :)
boom. he never OD'd
Me too, I REALLY want him not to be dead haha
GoTDancer You get 5 gold stars if that's what happens.
Logan is ded, he was a pussy, wannabe playboy and an addict.
I think Logan's dead. Bill sounded pretty somber when he told the host/human hybrid of James Delos that he OD'd.
Really enjoy your analysis. Keep up the good work.
Submitted for your approval... as others have mentioned, I believe Logan is behind Charlotte Hale's espionage.
Ford is trying to both resist Logan, and assist the MIB to return to his original "white hat" consciousness regarding the sentience of the hosts.
Thank you.
vandoolittle Fair point. Ford specifically told him (via Young Ford host) that he must go back to the beginning if he is to win the game that's meant for him. That, if he's looking forward, he's facing the wrong direction. Extrapolating on your belief, if William/MIB is to face his origin, William will have to face Logan again (in some form or another).
Well would you look at that, you were right.
I'm glad you are doing well :) I really think the use of better fonts makes your work look more professional
I look forward to these videos as much as the actual episodes!
Really well thought out - you convinced me - I say that when you presented the idea at first, my first thought was that's rather whack, but you methodically not only filled in the details but also provided some possible answers to what I've always considered were serious logic errors in the show and attributed to sloppy writing.
If you press 'login' on the fake delos website and type charolette's 'XOmegaCH' code, you get onto a restricted webpage! It makes me question that she's talking to a third party when she sends that and asks for instructions. It's apparently her delos identity
Stacy Hungerford Fascinating. X-Omega-Charlotte-Hale.
Robert J. Holtz
X is greek letter Chi probably
There's no reason to think that her and the third-party can't communicate using the Delos system with a hidden back door. There's no reason to think that she couldn't have manipulated someone in Delos IT to assist her since she's a board member.
This is pretty insane. I think you nailed it. Excellent video! Thanks, HaxDogma
I don't know what I would do without your videos!
D’awww thanks Terran! :D I’m just glad people enjoy them! :)
Nailed it!
Youre going to get hired by HBO
Paid to stop making predictions.
I appreciate the work you put in the content is amazing! Great theory that I fully support. Also Ford telling Dolores to go get her daddy would make sense if he knew all this was going on. You joining the chat for in deep geek anytime soon again? You guys are great.
When did ford tell her to get her daddy? Not saying it didn’t happen... I genuinely can’t remember that and if he said that then that’s huge!
Hayley Gorbet oh no he didn't tell her to I meant if he was orchestrating things in the cradle that influenced Dolores but I think she could be running off of memories again. Maybe William gave her a full to tour. I don't think she's apart of the mesh or cradle anymore.
Ok. I have a couple of reasons why I think just Delos is involved. 1. Charlotte sure has spilled the beans to several people. I know Lee is a food, but still. 2. Delos has been developing this Reasearch Project for many years. If the Board sent Charlotte in to retrieve data, how can she get away with it. I think she expects to keep her job. She mentioned Ashley Stubbs next review won't b good. 3. Why hasn't she just cut off Peter Abernathy's head instead of going through all this mess to keep him in tact. 4. The Delta Team sent in seems to know how everything works in Westworld. Even if they are not wearing any Delos logo. You could definitely b right! I just feel like Charlotte has been telling to many people to keep her espionage a secret. I also think Delos is just interested in keeping hold of the IP because Ford has been storing it somewhere they don't know. I think Ford suspected Charlotte from the beginning. Anyway, that's my 2 cents!! See ya later on Before the Dust Settles!! Great job getting 17,000 subscribers. That's awesome!! You deserve it!!😍🐴🔫🌄🐂🔪🌅💕😎
On a side note, been reviewing Season 1. Ashley Stubs is a robot. He was there working the control room accomodating young William, Logan, & Delores during their adventure in Pariah. And of course he's there now on present day.
Steely Dan Delores was by herself. Reliving and re-enacting her past experiences with William. Like she clearly has many times before. Ashley is in present day. Now the question is are we seeing the past event OR watching Delores memory of her first time with William? I'm leaning towards a memory because of her seeing herself and the hallucinations. She was sleep walking all these years.
Well this panned out! Well done
Good for you my dude, you deserve it! You'll be at 100k in no time!
Fingers crossed! Working hard for it!!
Hey dude I'm at the 5:40 mark in the video. They would not be able to compress data unless they could get to it. Theoretically, if they could compress it on site and store the compressed data on the host brain, they would be able to unpack it on a storage base that could support it. I have not watched the show yet, but I am a computer scientist. It would make sense that if William, having hidden the research from his successors, had also not revealed to them how the data was stored, the would need an onsite team to figure that out and how they actually could compress it. They get little glimpses of data and access to some metadata but none of the actual data unless the physically travel to the location where it is stored! Really cool and accurate depiction of how something like this could work.
I love these deep breakdowns and theories...we just need to wait some hours for the next episode 😆😆👌👍🤖
Truly masterful… 100% right on and Charlotte is certainly commensurately unlikable. However, there is also the intense possibility of our being deliberately mislead… So we’ll stay tuned and thank you for all you do for the west world metaconversation...👏🏻😝👏🏻
"I will tattoo this to my body if I am wrong"...there you have it :)
Corporate spy theory: YAAAAYYYY! Thanks for this! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
You are most certainly welcome! So glad you enjoyed it! :)
This is amazing! Kudos hax
Dude..... spot on
Thank you, Chrate! :D
Great video, it took a lot of time to piece scenes from many episode. Thank you for your work
I think Charlotte is a host. When the Delos scanned her, she nervously looked at the reader to see if she was clear. There was a similar look on Bernard's face when he first touched the "DNA sniffer" door handle in episode 1. Also she was the only one that wasn't shocked that Bernard was a host. I think she's an advanced host like Bernard, and on the season finale trailer where it shows her leaning over Bernard as he's sitting, I think she's going to reveal it.
Hey there! just found your channel - love it! Great analysis/theory I too think Charlotte is a mole of some sort within Delos. Like you allude to, the team she brings in act very differently than the "real" Delos extraction team. Like they're hired mercs, not Delos security forces.
Thanks for you intelligence, and insights and lovely voice. Your channel enhances my enjoyment of WW.
Second that.
I think Charlotte is following Delois prime reason for investing.
1 to sell immortality as an end product
2 to be able to observe park guests and replicate them in secret and use that imitation of a real human for marketing research.
The reason for the secrecy is the legal nature of what they are doing which they overcome by selling immortality
Also the park original creators find it morally disgusting and will attempt to stop them
As the bid to Delois as to why he should invest is that in the future this will be the only reality as everyone will want to purchase immortality
Another lore friendly explanation why data can fit one core - most of the place in the core is taken by behavioral programming and body control, actual hard data is the smallest part of it.
My question is, why is Dolores so interested in getting her “daddy” back. Is she looking for the info that Charlotte is trying to send out of the park? Forgive me, I’m a little slow on the up take. Have you all ready discussed this?
I think that part was Ford's influence over her. IMO I don't think the hosts are fully conscious, yet.
She wasn't actively looking for her daddy till he found him in the base. Then she realized that the explosive fight was just a diversion to steal abernathy then she figured out her dad was something the outsiders need thus her rushing into full speed to stop whatever they are doing... i think
I dont think she is aware of the data in her dads head yet since Bernard got dragged away before he got to tell dolores what it rly was
Hope that helps
Herman Bumms Mum I think it's a similar case to maeve having the soft spot for her 'daughter'
Your commentary is just right for me at .75 speed. I'm old; what can I do?
You should make videos about others things (shows/movies/ect) as well. I'd be interested in seeing other analysis vids as this one is very good.
Your theory is quite sound. You have me convinced
Another great video my man!
Thanks Cody! Glad you enjoyed it boss!
Thank you. Season 2 now makes sense.
Fucking nailed it! Man, the end of episode 3 had to feel good.
I was jumping up and down. I couldn’t believe what I was watching, my wife was trying to figure out why I kept yelling “I am theory god” to my dogs. It was a perfect night... 😂
I kind of always assumed Charlotte was working for a third party as a gut instinct. Her actions just don't make sense, but I certainly didn't put it all together this well. Excellent job!
Do you think testing for “fidelity” in the Cradle simulation with Bern/Arnold rather than in a physical location with James Delos has to do with the cognitive disconnect of Delos’ sick mind in a healthy body contributes to his breakdown? In other words, does having someone’s consciousness run through a simulation help keep them more intact than they would be if this same consciousness was placed in a physical host body?
Regarding the host in the cradle vs. Abernathy's mind, it is NOT the same thing, the brain pods, have their own operating system, and in the cradle, these "minds" are running and interacting with each other in narrative.
the copies in Abernathy's mind are NOT running or interacting with one another, its just backup. an analogy would be your PC vs the software on it. I cannot run 1000's of applications at the same time. but I sure can have 1000 application on my PC.
regarding Charlotte, I still have this suspicion she is in one way or another, working in benefit of the hosts, whether she knows it or not. she might be a host in a human body, or working for a company that was/is run by Ford. for example, so in a way, she is doing his bidding.
Someone in the park, was working with a party on the real world, to steal data. we know that, only thing of real value, is the Immortality prospect, I just do not see some other company opening up a theme park to compete with Delos, we know the real money is in immortality. and military use. Ford believed the host are the future of mankind, the next step in evolution. so he definitely has interest in extracting data.
So the big question is, is Charlotte working for some unknown 3rd party, or is she just one of Fords pawns, host or human?
I got this feeling too, but I was more wrapped up in my theory that Grace (Emily) and Charlotte may be connected. Mostly just a desire I have to see Grace working against her father's company in a more complex way, with Charlotte being her partner/ally/employee/bae...
And as I watched this video, I had a thought: Considering where we are, could Lee be calling Charlotte where we left off with him? And on that, we may see Charlotte and Maeve interact, and I'm not sure why, but I would love to have a large reveal involving those two. We have been connecting dots with Charlotte being related in some way to Bernarnold, but could Maeve's mother/daughter story arc actually involve her somehow?
I don't have reason to think so, I just like throwing hail marys that could be potentially huge plot developments.
I wondered where the Delta Team was when Delos' team finally arrived, and was about to search for the episode when this video was linked on reddit.
This theory is very convincing, I would be surprised if ends up being wrong. Good find!
The Delos team arrived two weeks later. The first team or Delta team were killed by Deloros's people.
Ok, I thing you just overthought that one, perhaps because you forgot Charlotte-William scene in S01E09.
First of, Delos is not the company controlling the park. Westworld (and five other parks) belong to the company called Destinations Inc (on a delos website you can query Delos, and robot will tell you that it's "The corporate parent of our Destinations subsidiary"). Now according to the story, Arnold and Ford created their little startup with cool AI and toys, but they didn't have enough money to make a "release", and as any other startup nowadays, they started looking for investments. In S02E02 they approach Logan Delos and then back in season 1 Logan and William go to the park in order to inspect their possible investment.
Now when you invest in something, you don't get to own everything. Like those investors who put millions into Uber - they don't have access to the database with your destinations and credit cards info. But they can put a person into board of directors, which Delos did, putting Charlotte and Theresa to the board, but technically it's a different company with Ford having more control (because William was voting to let Ford do whatever - S01E09). When people invest into something, they may put come extra requirements, like "we will be the first to get the profit" for example. Delos was giving their money, and in return they demanded to build a special program, that would put the human mind into machine like we saw in S02E04. And Ford did that, but he didn't allow to break data security perimiter - everything was made within the park by the park employees and special hosts. And according to S02E04 - Bernard new that all along, he just didn't remember that in S02E01.
So what we have:
1. Delos invest money and demand a research in return
2. Destinations Inc (Ford) is doing the research, but don't have the full progress (S02E04). All the research is kept inside the park, secure and encrypted.
3. William was protecting Ford, and didn't allow Delos's board of directors to replace him (S01E09)
4. William's wife dies, he stops to resurrecting James Delos and orders to retrive whatever data was collected in that hidden lab with data storage.
5. Since Delos will eventually make Westworld more casual now, William decides to get to the last thing he didn't see - hidden narrative about the Maze.
6. Most of Destinations Inc are loyal to Ford, so data perimeter is secure. Theresa fails to get data to Delos sat. Theresa is killed.
7. Chatlotte decides to smuggle the key to the research data inside the Abernathy's head (S01E08)
8. William stops protecting Ford (S01E09) so on the next board of directors Ford will be replaced with someone more loyal to Delos.
9. Ford foresee that outcome and he feels bad about all that "Arnold was right" things, so he decides to let things loose and set the world on fire. And eats the bullet (S01E10)
10. The people who were killed in the mess were not Delos executives. They were Destinations Inc executives. Some of them were from Delos. Some might have been outside investors.
11. Delos doesn't want some army to come and save the day, because authority may find out that Westworld experience was not so private all along. And then Zuckerberg in Senate would look like a Disneyland trip. So Delos wait to see that data is secure and is outside the park. Destroying it is not as bad as letting it into wrong hands. And Charlotte is doing that exactly.
PS. Ashley looks like that at Coughlin because they are from different companies. It's a "cop looking at the FBI arrival" look.
This is spot on! Well done 👍🏽😁
Thank you AD31DR, really glad you enjoyed it!
Haven't you noticed at 10:20 and 16:13 they block out the bottom left of the card for Bernard? And since the soldiers are Delos. They HAVE to know who he is.
William knows. So you know he told his staff, just in case something happens.
HaxDogma your idea a couple weeks ago about Bernard being in the cradle and being manipulated by Delos. Great job because it's looking to be true.
Charlotte is working for Emily. Emily is a human/ host hybrid and Dolores is her true birth mother. They smuggled her out and she was raised by William and Juliet. Emily’s hybridized DNA is what helped Delos achieve their next step for the human immortality project. Emily is there to find answers and her birth mother, Dolores? Charlotte could be a human/ host hybrid as well?
She’s secretly working for ...
SPOILER
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Darth Maul
Nice intro, congrats!
the thing I don't get about her character is she is introduced as a seemingly innocuous executive type character and little by little in each subsequent episode she knows more and more about the park, and programming, and code etc. down to where hidden extraction points are and if the timeline is somewhat in order when we first meet her, Sizemore had never met her before, so how does she have so much experiential knowledge of the park and its day to day operations if she's someone who it seems had never even been there. If she had spent any significant time there then surely Sizemore who is heavily involved in operations, would have recognized her at the bar where we first see them meet.
So one of the main focuses this season is immortality, and there's a line spoken to stubbs by one of the ghost Indian people that you only live as long as people remember you. We know that not even Ford was able to replicate his mind in a body, but he could function and therefore live forever in the cradle. What if all the info being collected is to turn past guests who want immortality into hosts? To be stored in the park as hosts until theyve successfully been able to transfer consciousness into host bodies. I doubt it would be a situation where a guest's mind is trapped in a host loop (although fidelity does come to mind when I say this out loud), they might all be in a different park?
Yay, HaxDogma!
I think you’re right! Can’t wait for tonight!
Logans Daughter!
Is it possible to consider that there is an Anti-Delos hacktivist group operating? I don't think Charlotte would be originally a member because Delos would be keeping tabs on everyone big brother style but if she turned double agent because of [insert backstory here]
Lee Suzume because she's actually Charlie and found out what became of her father?
Subscribed, I was a believer in a second company. I watched a second time and I see how your theory is larger than mine. Shes definitely with a second military group and has admin rights to the existing delos folks. This theory will be the cliffhanger at the finale ?
I think this theory might go into S3 truthfully but I hope not!! Thanks for the sub btw! :)
ooo i like and comment from the future
Ayyyyy!
One problem: Since Stubbs was there for the first extraction team's arrival and demise, he would surely have mentioned them to Strand. Yet Strand doesn't appear suspicious of Charlotte. Coughlin's team was clearly working under her direction, so if that team wasn't really Delos, Strand should suspect Charlotte of what he later accused Stubbs of doing -- selling Delos IP to others.
MeriwetherJ Unless Strand doesn’t ask and Stubbs doesn’t say as much. We don’t know if Stubbs was suspicious, just curious at that point! So why would he bring it up again if he didn’t connect the dots fully? And Strand may not have brought this up yet! He may have just been curious also not exactly sure what to think but when his boss tells him that Stubbs and Bernard should be considered for the murder of Theresa he brings them in not thinking it could be her. All just a theory, but that’s one way it could be explained!
I still buy your theory, but this is a gaping hole. I can't imagine the first extraction team not coming up in early debriefs with Strand . Too many critically important things happened on that team's watch. The hosts proved how dangerous they are when they successfully invaded the mesa and killed nearly all Delos staff, including fully-armed QA and Coughlin's far more skilled swat team. The Cradle was destroyed, the Delos computer system shut down and Dolores slipped away with Abernathy's brain case. (On the other hand, Strand's lieutenant showed him the photo of the blown-to-bits Cradle as if it were news...)
We have not yet seen William's "Greatest Mistake" project. That's neither the facility with James nor the CR4DL.
This. Is. Epic.
The third party company.... Is Ford.
My crazy mind would fit into the story , near the end of course, that Charlotte is actually Maeves daughter. She was taken out of host mode; because she was chosen as test subject of host growth experimentation. Her actual role is to covertly help her mother, Maeve, escape from the park.
How's that for imaginative?
Don't worry, I won't quit the day job I don't have.
:)
-Cheers.
Ah this makes a lot of sense, I was wondering why Dellos would wait that long to go in and why she would have to deliver the package before any help would come.
Love this in-depth look at Charlotte .
Just an aside. I thought in episode seven when Delores was about to attack Charlotte that for just that moment when she had real terror in her response she felt real. She was feeling what the hosts felt probably most of the days of their existence. For the briefest of moments Charlotte felt human and then it vanished. Then I reflected again on how the hosts where made to feel that terror daily, year in year out. Damn... Is there really none of the humans working in the park that gets that? Thats a bit of a flaw, that none of the security services even think about the possibility that they are dealing with extremely intelligent pissed off AI and should be worried about survival even as a species and fuck the package.
Swear the season will end with dolores having to kill her daddy then herself or something with the same drama-sentience effect, catalyzing maeve (practically leaving her no choice) to continue the technical necessities in their fight for freedom
so is peter saying "i need to get to the train" because thats teddy's role in the cradle? who's the dude saying the religious stuff he stared singing when he was kidnapped? peters still in there though he was talking about sweetwater to dolores
They shouldn't need to send a Charlotte because I can't believe this company has no way to send it via satellite. Yes there is a communication embargo that they control. No way they don't have a way to send updates to the operating system and Security softwre. Also would a company physically send that every time. Well as sending someone both places every time they hire/fire someone. They may tried using that way in the past. Most likely the attempt they caught, but left no clue who did it.
Data and cpu power are very different. Maybe you can fit all the data on one host, but to simulate everything you need many of their control units.
Agreed!!
♥ Hax, u r far and beyond the Best Reviewer of Westworld..your theories are Brilliant and equal to the Brilliance of the Magnificent WESTWORLD Phenomenon that deserves a Reviewer of your Calibre..works of Vanguard Cinematic Art require keen Minds like yours to illuminate for others The Mastery and levels of Creativity at work here in WESTWORLD....Bravo Hax ♥
D’awww thank you so much Phoenix! :D
I think it only makes sense to run the fidelity test in an irreplaceable reality. Imagine that in a computer simulation it is quite easy to fix a glitch in a program; whereas when the same glitch happens in our reality, the program has to be synchronised with real-life robotic nervous system of a body which has been copied after a human nervous-system- ergo it has to overcome the same cognitive dissonance issue a real human would go through- without the help of a simulation that fixes the perspective of the reality around you as soon as there is a problem in your program. There is no logic loop when everything is run by the same simulation including you and the world around you. This is how Ford can exist as a program in the Cradle, but not as a host in reality.
Great video! New subscriber!
Love you Hax ❤️
NITA! I love you tooooooooooo!
Dolores is still controlled by Ford and he knows Carlotte is the betrayer. Thats why Dolores wants his father back. Actually its Ford who doesn't want to lose the data and IP - maybe because its also his consciousness, memories and own personal data in there.
There was a glitch with the closed captions while Elsa and bernard were in the Cradle. Whenever Elsa was speaking the captions displayed Charlotte or Hughes. Could bernard be malfunctioning and perceiving Elsa but it's actually Charlotte?
I’ve always been bothered about host brain capacity versus hard drives. If the pearl is such an awesome storage technology, why isn’t it used in their other systems? Why is it easier to sneak out an entire host rather than just the pearl? And if Abernathy’s brain is full of IP data, how is there still room for a thin character AND remnants of his prior personalities?
Didnt think about a third party, but with two extraction teams... man you got it right on the money, i feel like
Brilliant Theory
A+
Charlotte may be working for the Koch brothers, they're getting pretty old, they would want some of that immortality, and they're rich enough. Her login name is KOmegaCH, which could be looked at as greek 'chi' + omega + ch, or loosely 'Koch'. Unfortunately for this theory to work, they'd have to live long enough that they'd likely already have immortality.
Or, it could be Roman numeral 10, giving 'loch' for the Loch Ness monster, that's the big secret, they're building a Nessie, and why they flooded that valley. Or maybe I'm not getting enough sleep.
also I'm thinking at the valley beyond there is another cradle where humans are living just like the hosts cradle. maybe Bernard will deliver ford there.
Never stop!🤠🤖🤓
With support like this Dom, how could I?! Thanks boss!
Maybe not another company, could it be a military government agency?
Totally agree it could be Government!