No matter how much they nerf or buff Jenos, there will always be one thing that brings him and almost any healer down: the player base, specifically those who can’t wait for heals or in the case of Jenos, assume the trickle heal can heal them through ults and the entire team shooting them
People need to realize that they arent the only member on the team. Us healers have a tough job sometimes and people need to realize that and be patient.
I totally agree we need so much more diversity and unique supports that are SUPPORTS not healers. I love you mentioning Rei. She's honestly the only support i play just for how unique and fun she is for being utility. Hope you can influence just a bit more for supports in this direction!!
I have an idea. Give him a bunch of self buff cards when a mark is out. Then add a talent like hunting party where those buffs now affect allies (but for this talent it should only be marked allies). That way you can adjust the healing uptime for that talent and the player has to choose between more healing uptime/output and more buffs. Only problem is most of those buff cards would only be useful when using that specific talent but to be honest it's not like Jenos has a ton of build diversity in the first place.
Jenos 2 cards (reduce CD of heal & increase duration of heal) should been put into base kit at level 3 due to how important those cards are. Dev been putting mandatory cards into base kit Replace those 2 cards with utility such as movement speed, ultimate charge or whatever else Or just put old luminary into base kit but give like 5% damage amp
This right here, I hate when some characters have those types of cards, I understand that some cards will be stronger than others, but those are used in any viable way of playing the character should just be in base kit. Ying's "Brittle" card (shatter cdr) makes sense since it's not required for dmg ying, but even dmg oriented Lilith would go for "Blood Canon" (+blood pool -health pool).
Every TEAM buff every healer has including cards and talents but not including healing or other characters such as, Raum, Octavia, Skye, Moji, Khan and Torvald (Let me know if i missed anything) Corvus: CC reduction, Cooldown reduction, Move speed amp, Dmg reduction and Life Steal Furia: Dmg amp, Ammo regen, Movespeed buff, Shield Grohk: Move speed buff Grover: Move speed buff Io: Move speed buff Jenos: … Lillith: Reveal, Life steal, Move speed buff Mal’Damba: Life Steal, Move speed buff Pip: Shield Rei: Dmg reduction, Dmg nullification, Move speed buff, Jump height buff, Ult charge rate boost, Cooldown reduction, Reload speed buff Seris: Healing amplification Ying: Clense CC Also I do think they should give jenos his damage anp on mark back as he was the only support with an ability that could amp the damage of teamates. Furias ability is an ultimate, tyra only got nerfed recently and even then she still had to 1. Pick a talent, 2. Mark the enemy and she in theory gives a bigger damage amp then jenos does and before the nerf it was even bigger. Torvald also still has his and now he can buy gurdian to make his shield for the teammates even more valuable and he still has to pick a talent for his teammates to receive the damage amp. and in the end lots of flanks amp their damage on their own with no help by also picking a talent? So why can’t a support pick a talent and buff his team to amp their damage ESPECIALLY when he has almost 0 team utility compared to his fellow supports? I dont aim to start a fight but if you disagree and would like to say something please RESPECTFULLY disagree with a reply, thank you
In general, healers should be able to apply percentage based buffs with their heals, the effects of which would scale with the level of rejuvenate that their target teammate have. That way, getting rejuvenate would be even more incentivized.
what would be very cool is if they gave stellar wind a cool effect on activation like every ally in 40 units would gain 15% damage reduction and 5% increased movement speed but give stellar wind a cooldown of like 10 seconds or something similar, in reality i just want them to do something with stellar wind
They need to add DR / damage mitigation to his kit is what I've been saying for a long time. Here's an idea building off what you were saying. Make luminary basekit. And replace it with a dial with different passives that you award on mark. 1 for awarding a bit of ult charge, 1 for Flat damage mitigation during the duration of mark, 1 for movement speed boost during duration and maybe something else. And you can switch only in spawn so that you have to adapt to the flow of combat while also not being super flexible so it's not busted
Id suggest to give that speed boost to marked allies on lumminary talent exclusevely and as a bonus for its utility, make void grip to be usable on allies, where he would pull allies to himself, would be a good way to save allies from bad positioning and dive circunstances, would give such an amazing nieche this way
I remember someone suggesting something about card rework where Jenos now would have a card that reduces the cd of his healing by hitting enemies with his weapon and I just think thats the perfect way to balance him while they think on other ways to make him special, since he will no longer be a healbot, instead a healer that's need to do dmg and not stand behind cover all the game to perform better
My idea is that instead of Binary Star we could bring back old Luminary with whole 15% damage boost but Jenos loses the ability to apply mark through the walls and slightly loses in range. I think it's great because: 1) we'll have two talents to choose from for a support gameplay (though Luminary still needs a slight buff) which will depend on team comp and map 2) the damage boost won't be as busted as it was back in the day because your teammate will have to back up every time to get that juicy buff which is a great trade-off even considering we lose in healing output by not picking Luminary 3) we'll get rid of Binary Star lmao
Talent Concept: While Jenos is in Steller grant 50% of it's befits to allies with the Astral Mark including card effects. maybe allow Jenos to Fire his weapon in Steller Wind (No Reloading tho) Basic Changes could be Speed (Space), or Cooldown Reduction (Time)
I think the laziest way they can buff Jenos is by making Luminery give 10% Damage reduction, though it will still make him a healbot but at least it would make him a bit more useful.
Kinda weird how corvus was made to be a heal bot yet having one of the lowest healing in the game. I mean unless you're using the first talent his buffs are not great and if you do your entire team relies upon the flank knowing what they're doing. And if you're playing on casual this is not possible.
I started maining Jenos, currently on lvl 37, because I liked the way he can secure kills in a flanking position: To cling to a strong flanker, cast scorpion for more headshots, stay mobile with bunny and stay alive with lotus. I believe Flanknos could be meta against double heal comps and I don't think he lacks of anything. But his cards are kind of meh...maybe his cards need a slight overhaul but again; I say he is actually strong if you play him the way his kit is destined to be played. PS: ty for Jenos content, I love my walmart Zenyatta
Idea to balance Supports, numbers are not accurate: Healers (for comps with high health pools): Ying - certified healbot (we need that), nothing else, just big healing Lilith - sacrifices her health to heal allies, gives lots of life steal (25-30%) DMG Amplifiers (for comps with DPS characters of specific or not type): Jenos - low healing, but gives jump height and small damage amplifier (7.5%) Pip - mid AOE healing, increases explosive damage team does (15%) Seris - mid single-target healing, increases hitscan damage the team does (15%) Misc Buffs (just various buffs): Grohk - dps support with mid AOE healing that gives more shield strength to allies within totems (20-25%) or regenerates shields Furia - gives huge dmg buff for several seconds with her burst, has mid healing and gives damage reduction (10%) Grover - speed boost healer, gives speed (25%) around allies and cooldown reduction (15-20%) Rei - mid healing but regenerates ultimates Rest (none of the categories): Corvus - pocket mid healer that goes around with flankers and helps them kill enemies Mal Damba - crowd control support who stuns and fears, with mid healing Io - technically a 7th player, low healing, but works similarly to engineer with gunslinger from TF2
Not related to the video, but what are your thoughts on furia this patch? A friend of mine says she is not consistent enough as a solo support, so i wanted do to hear what tou guys think
Here is something simple, remove Luminary's card (make its effect something Jenos keeps permanently i.e. he always has it) and as a replacement for its slot add as a legendary card this. "All allies affected by Astral Mark receive 40% of the benefits of Jenos's items bought in the item store." So that would mean if the Jenos player bought Chronos tier 1 (10% cooldown reduction) the marked player gets 4% cooldown reduction (10x0.4=4), and Armor Plating tier 2 (16% damage reduction from inhand weapon) the marked player gets 6.4% Damage reduction (16x0.4=6.4) . This would make Jenos's purchases be more impactful and tactical for his teammates it would also increase his utility quite a lot.
Lets See Sone ideas I had- Each time you apply a mark adds 1 second to other mark Increase base range by 40% Make Luminary - Give a Passive CC reduction, or maybe even a amp CC like (increase knock back by 15%), ( increase duration by .3 seconds) to those who have marks Maybe replace Binary with sonething that involves Stellar wind You leave a trail behind and allies within 20 meters of you gain increased speed as well as share all your card benefits (Similar to skye smoke and dagger) Replace some of Jenos cards Astral Cycle - Gives Speed abd Jump instead of duration Light years -Give it maybe increased vision to stealth even further maybe? Or Increased range before drop off occurs Honestly I kinda accepted jenos is you buff them there op , you nerf them there ded
Here’s my thought: lean into the “trickle” aspect of his healing. Give him a talent that provides marked teammates with ammo regeneration, a movement boost that slowly ramps up with mark duration, or percentage-based cooldown reductions every second.
I think focusing on utility will really help characters with simpler kits. Just giving a character a ton of healing with a very, very simple playstyle isn't a terrible idea. There needs to be main healers that new players or act as comfort picks. However, when every support is judged based on healing it just becomes who is the easiest character to pump out healing. The talent system is such a good tool to add that utility, but it's sadly not too common.
In fact, I was also thinking about Jenos, it occurred to me to give the ultimate a plus since it is not always effective. They could give him a Fury, Lillith or Ying type ability that is applied to the entire team when firing his energy. Maybe give the team that anti-gravity jump you mention for a while, and I'd even add a small burst of healing to allies, maybe 900 health with a tick that lasts 2 seconds and applies to everyone at the same time. What do you think?
They could change luminary to give marked targets 15% damage reduction so that his heals still has value in the late game if it can reduce the teams damage taken overall
I get what you mean. In Overwatch, Ana and Kiriko (and all the other supports besides Moira and Illari) have consistently been so strong because of their abilities and utility. Things they provide outside of just healing and damage. Ana has sleep and anti, Kiriko has tp and suzu, Bap has immortality, so on and so forth. It's a bit ironic because people complain a lot about Lifeweaver or Mercy healbots in OW, but in Paladins people tend to desire healbots like Grover or Ying.
That's because you can't really outheal a one shot combo, which OW has an insane amount of. Paladins comparatively just has fast burst, which can be healed through if you have enough
@@techwizsmith7963 This is only true for this season of Overwatch, which I wasn’t talking about. Hence why I said “consistently” when speaking g about Ana. Prior to this season, Mercy (one of the lowest healing per second supports) could heal through Sombra virus or even Soldier visor. The amount of healing, burst or otherwise still has never been that important in Overwatch unless we’re talking about double shield where your Ana could just stay back and pump heals into Orisa. Even now, with the dps passive granting reduced healing, you’re still better off picking Zen for discord than you would be picking Moira (she’s kinda good now) or Illari to healbot even though they heal massively more than Zen does. The game is a whole lot more similar to Paladins than it ever has been and you’re still better off picking someone with util + damage than a healbot
Jenos does have cc tho with his q but its weak because all movement skills cancel it which is most of the champions while some have more than 1 movement skill. I have 2 suggestions for this: 1. The airborne effect of his grip can't be countered by resilience beyond 35%... The cripple talent on q is not an airborne cc so that should still be countered by resi 3 so power cosmeum wouldn't get buffed too much and resilience wouldn't be useless against him either when using the cripple talent. Movement skills already cancel his q anyway as it should so making his grip harder to counter against players that don't have mobility or have their skills on cooldown shouldn't be a problem right? This essentially makes Jenos a solid counter pick to champions that lack mobility and force players to respect his grip by saving their movement skills to escape it/playing more passively. 2. i) His dmg over time effect on grip now persists when cancelled by movement skills. Since damage is not exactly cc i dont think it should be countered by anti cc. ii) if players use movement skills to cancel his q, they take an extra burst of 300 dmg. This should stop his skill from being completely useless when countered by mobility. iii) Add a passive to his base kit where all his skill dmg also benefit from built in cauterize capped at 60% to balance. Any other thoughts and suggestions?
I feel like The legendary take the cd and duration card effect and those become cards that give buffs, It would also be cool to have a legendary that increase buffs and heal given by the mark if u put those in the cards
Allow charging voidgrip to create a ball of healing energy instead, a small heal over time with an increased amount to marked Allies, or a buff when marks are in range of the ball. Maybe even just make voidgripped enemies the ball.
I think the one thing I would add without nuch thought is the jump cards. That makes him more fun, helps with his ult and his escape. And those leave two slots in his cards for newer cards. It doesn't solve the issues mentionned here though.
My suggestion would be to grant a damage reduction buff to receivers of the astral mark. And maybe give life steal to any player that damages the enemy that's called in void grip. So shooting that enemy only will grant the life steal buff but shooting another enemy would not activate life steal. If that makes sense.
In effect, he only has four cards to choose from. He's a different character, just without the retrograde. and One wonders if stellar winds really have 65% of the travel speed.
Give Jenos 60% jumps in the sprint ability in base. And make the healer talent have to give 200 shields per 3.5 seconds. And have a card that increases the shield.
I think they problem as you mention is the lack of innovation of champions talents and cards to make them more unique and situational and alter gameplay rather than which support heals better. For example, Jenos could have a card that when you heal your ally, players in xft radius gain an astral mark for 1s or when using stellar wind your allies are revealed for x amount of seconds.Talents like Luminary, nerf the traditional healing 285 to something lower like 85 and make where players healed by astral mark are now have their health increase by 5%.
A good way that I think could work for Jenos would be. Jenos can no longer heal through walls but I give him much more healing and also a small speed boost for the marked ones.
I think that his movement ability could just be a passive when OoC...holding jump in the air would slow down the fall and allow to glide and then give him another utility support ability
maybe building him as a flank/support... since he can pretty much heal from anywhere.. making void grip to cripple by default and the movement ability levitation as a passive and the glide as a passive while holding jump... then maybe I dunno giving him some personnal front ark shield a little like vivian.... that would make him a jack of all trade king of none... give some more survavibility so he could act as a flank support/tank while healing the main team thru walls...
Jenos can be very good with 2 flanks, allowing them to win their 1v1's and escape a 1v2 in the backline. Also depends on enemy team comp. If they are alot of burst damage, his healing gets nullified. If they are alot of high fire rate champs his healing his huge
Void grip should have a branding effect that either applies 100% anti heal or a branding effect of 10-20% extra damage. As it stands it's a bit of a lackluster button, you can just save your movement ability when engaging him. Could also add the cripple talent to base kit.
What about cc inmunity You make that part of the talent instead of th3 lodauts to try test the ground. Healing mark grants allies consistent heals for up to 12 sec but cc inmunity only for up to 3 or 5 seconds That sounds nice to me
Would also like to see Rei's heal buff be moved to Extention and get rid of the Extra range cuz i think there are way to much good healers right now and also give Rei CC immiunity or like hard CC reduction when using envelop with the Talent restraint cuz restraint now is kinda weird
@@bradycoulter207 they Buffed her heal but i think that only should be on Extention cuz right now we have a bit to much heal bots in the game...also like i said give her another benefit when using restraint cuz with anti heal beeing passive with every Champ it is kinda useless
They should give supports the effect of one of the items from the item shop, ult charge, meditation, nimble, deft hands. For Jenos fuck the 2nd talent make to to where he can mark enemies and rebuff them. Have luminarie give a team buff. Void grip can do something in the middle
The problem with his healing is that it doesn't save people. They should double his healing per second but cut the duration in half. That way he would still heal the same amount but the healing would be more impactful.
I think it would be gerate if every Support had a unice boost like reis ult charge. But i think u should not give every second Support the same boost. So that one is good against CC and one gives high movement Speed and one gives ult charge and so on.
Rework Jenos's healing talent to make him heal a percentage of his damage to himself and marked allies. Kind of the reverse of Corvus's Grand Design. This increases Jenos's healing output without making him a healbot since it requires him to do damage. If you want utility, give Jenos a lower base cooldown for his mark and rework the cooldown card into a utility card. Also, while we're at it, make Through Time and Space either slow enemies caught in the windup or heal allies that get hit.
I do miss when he was a utility support and not healing support. He’s still a good character you can easily break 100k healing in casual games with him if you have the right cards.
I agree but also its not easy, any buff will make flanks a nightmare, and they are already pretty strong, it should be a buff that doesnt make flanks op, ult chanrge could be. But yea we need more supportive effects in Supports overall
I feel like utility focused supports just don't work in Paladins - Rei is a great example of this where the champ just feels useless as a solo support most of the time, so making more utility focused supports just encourages double support, which the balance team has been trying to get rid of for a while lmao The cards that increase the heal duration and decrease CD should be in base kit and can be replaced with utility cards or they'll allow people to run the Space Jam loadout without sacrificing Jenos's healing
My issue with having more utility supports that don't heal much is that they'll only be viable in double support and double support meta is not very fun most of the time
Would it be so bad to just buff his numbers but not as much as they did last time? I do like the idea of giving some sort of utility to his mark though.
It’s hard to balance. Obviously those months back he was just too good - they tuned it down but now he doesn’t feel that great. He’s my most played character but at the moment I just feel my teammates don’t feel happy with a Jenos healer lol.
I feel as though the problem jenos. I think him, torvald and maldamba are the only true supports in the. The real problem is that the other healers burst heal. They heal for too much, too consistently. If all heals were done incrementally like jenos, then they could get rid of caut, bring healers in line with one another, make rejuvenate worth something, make minor shielding cards better and so many other tjhings
Solo heal damage Jenos is probably the best SUPPORT in the right hands. I used to see someone get top dmg and heals with it every game and I do something similar. Jenos' base weapon is horrible
No this is a terrible idea. Already the rework for the shop makes me think enough, we don't need to consider an entire new class. Since support makes sense for the idea you are talking about so an additional class wouldn't make sense. 🤔
Imo Jenos is never a main healer. He heals a lot but not in a good way. Marks many people they healed slowly. In the scoreboard it looks he healed well yet not enough in dire situations thus people die alot.
This is because youre playing jenos wrong hes not a main healer hes designed currently at least to be an off role healer whos main purpose is to go with your flanker to facilitate successful picks you take the void grip talent and you go with your flanker using your f for movements speed and jump height to keep up with them you take the card where when someone dies within 4 seconds of your grip and you go for resets with your flanker if your flank player is good you can completely destroy a team very quickly
I should make a note here that the void grip distance is the other card i 5 star as for loadout go hoard and the ult charge one to start with then max the ult charge one nimble and the lethal last for move speed and jump height after elim and next thing you know you and your flanker are causing so much chaos that most teams won't be able to focus or play effectively ideally the best comp for this is one solo tank preferably ashe or a sheild tank for your team a main support who can heal a lot and then a main dps like tyra or someone similar if you have too you can play on main with the team, another good pair for him is strix as they keep each other safe
Jenos should still be able to heal his team effectively. especially considering your complaints about healer power creep and non existent double healer meta. As it stands he has an extremely bad time trying to keep up 2 tanks. I like and agree about adding utility to healers. But ignoring jenos issues as a healer won’t do any good either.
Again complaining about keywords and buffing supports but they opted to do those things to balance everyone getting cauterize globally for free. Key words either need to be added to all healers or should be removed from all healers I agree it’s an issue but All the big talk about wanting more skillful play seems like just talk when the meta you’d rather have is overpowered flanks that can go solo diving backlines for free and being able to get away essentially unpunished for potentially making a bad play and not playing with your team as the game is designed and intended to be played
Stop trying to mess up every champion, jenos is fine, mess with him and he will become overpowered. He’s not about burst heal, he’s more about sustained heal, your asking for more burst heal from a champ that heals through walls lmao. Get real.
Jenos is simply outdated. He shouldn't have to run Cooldown as a card as a support. The cooldown should be in base kit like all other supports. Additionally, the cooldown shouldn't be as high 7 seconds. they should lower it to a base kit of 4, and provide a little bit more burst, with a less extended duration of maybe 10 or 8 seconds instead of 12. Also, his other cooldown cards need to be reworked into something else. His abilities are fine in terms of function, but he relies too much on cooldown cards to be viable. He needs a large rework to modernize his dsck.
@@user-ts1hs6ki1x not really. You need those cards if you want to go heal. Any loadout without those is trash. For dps support playstyles, then yes, I will agree.
You are wrong about him having a low wr in high elo not being surprising. The fact that peopke are picking him there is surprising. This is coming from a Jenos main.
No matter how much they nerf or buff Jenos, there will always be one thing that brings him and almost any healer down: the player base, specifically those who can’t wait for heals or in the case of Jenos, assume the trickle heal can heal them through ults and the entire team shooting them
People need to realize that they arent the only member on the team. Us healers have a tough job sometimes and people need to realize that and be patient.
@@joonyah8904When i playing dps or flank and being too greedy i die, and this is only my fault
@@joonyah8904кому нам? Любой старый игрок играет на всех позициях очень хорошо
@@joonyah8904people who don’t heal won’t understand this 🤷🏽♂️
@@fortyinch fr, people who insta-lock a flank, press W, and wonder why they dont get healed across the map smh
I totally agree we need so much more diversity and unique supports that are SUPPORTS not healers. I love you mentioning Rei. She's honestly the only support i play just for how unique and fun she is for being utility. Hope you can influence just a bit more for supports in this direction!!
I have an idea. Give him a bunch of self buff cards when a mark is out. Then add a talent like hunting party where those buffs now affect allies (but for this talent it should only be marked allies). That way you can adjust the healing uptime for that talent and the player has to choose between more healing uptime/output and more buffs. Only problem is most of those buff cards would only be useful when using that specific talent but to be honest it's not like Jenos has a ton of build diversity in the first place.
Jenos 2 cards (reduce CD of heal & increase duration of heal) should been put into base kit at level 3 due to how important those cards are. Dev been putting mandatory cards into base kit
Replace those 2 cards with utility such as movement speed, ultimate charge or whatever else
Or just put old luminary into base kit but give like 5% damage amp
This right here, I hate when some characters have those types of cards, I understand that some cards will be stronger than others, but those are used in any viable way of playing the character should just be in base kit. Ying's "Brittle" card (shatter cdr) makes sense since it's not required for dmg ying, but even dmg oriented Lilith would go for "Blood Canon" (+blood pool -health pool).
Man, I remember old damage boost Jenos, fun times
@@techwizsmith7963Damage boost jenos, damage boost Torvalds, really good evie= WIN LOL. Good times
Every TEAM buff every healer has including cards and talents but not including healing or other characters such as, Raum, Octavia, Skye, Moji, Khan and Torvald
(Let me know if i missed anything)
Corvus: CC reduction, Cooldown reduction, Move speed amp, Dmg reduction and Life Steal
Furia: Dmg amp, Ammo regen, Movespeed buff, Shield
Grohk: Move speed buff
Grover: Move speed buff
Io: Move speed buff
Jenos: …
Lillith: Reveal, Life steal, Move speed buff
Mal’Damba: Life Steal, Move speed buff
Pip: Shield
Rei: Dmg reduction, Dmg nullification, Move speed buff, Jump height buff, Ult charge rate boost, Cooldown reduction, Reload speed buff
Seris: Healing amplification
Ying: Clense CC
Also I do think they should give jenos his damage anp on mark back as he was the only support with an ability that could amp the damage of teamates. Furias ability is an ultimate, tyra only got nerfed recently and even then she still had to 1. Pick a talent, 2. Mark the enemy and she in theory gives a bigger damage amp then jenos does and before the nerf it was even bigger. Torvald also still has his and now he can buy gurdian to make his shield for the teammates even more valuable and he still has to pick a talent for his teammates to receive the damage amp. and in the end lots of flanks amp their damage on their own with no help by also picking a talent? So why can’t a support pick a talent and buff his team to amp their damage ESPECIALLY when he has almost 0 team utility compared to his fellow supports?
I dont aim to start a fight but if you disagree and would like to say something please RESPECTFULLY disagree with a reply, thank you
jenos has been my main healer since i started playing paladins and i'll never stop using him i love him nerf/buff i'll love him
In general, healers should be able to apply percentage based buffs with their heals, the effects of which would scale with the level of rejuvenate that their target teammate have. That way, getting rejuvenate would be even more incentivized.
what would be very cool is if they gave stellar wind a cool effect on activation like every ally in 40 units would gain 15% damage reduction and 5% increased movement speed but give stellar wind a cooldown of like 10 seconds or something similar, in reality i just want them to do something with stellar wind
They need to add DR / damage mitigation to his kit is what I've been saying for a long time.
Here's an idea building off what you were saying. Make luminary basekit. And replace it with a dial with different passives that you award on mark. 1 for awarding a bit of ult charge, 1 for Flat damage mitigation during the duration of mark, 1 for movement speed boost during duration and maybe something else. And you can switch only in spawn so that you have to adapt to the flow of combat while also not being super flexible so it's not busted
Id suggest to give that speed boost to marked allies on lumminary talent exclusevely and as a bonus for its utility, make void grip to be usable on allies, where he would pull allies to himself, would be a good way to save allies from bad positioning and dive circunstances, would give such an amazing nieche this way
Nah that would be a good way to TROLL people and aggravate your teammates. I wouldn’t recommend that 💀
I remember someone suggesting something about card rework where Jenos now would have a card that reduces the cd of his healing by hitting enemies with his weapon and I just think thats the perfect way to balance him while they think on other ways to make him special, since he will no longer be a healbot, instead a healer that's need to do dmg and not stand behind cover all the game to perform better
My idea is that instead of Binary Star we could bring back old Luminary with whole 15% damage boost but Jenos loses the ability to apply mark through the walls and slightly loses in range. I think it's great because:
1) we'll have two talents to choose from for a support gameplay (though Luminary still needs a slight buff) which will depend on team comp and map
2) the damage boost won't be as busted as it was back in the day because your teammate will have to back up every time to get that juicy buff which is a great trade-off even considering we lose in healing output by not picking Luminary
3) we'll get rid of Binary Star lmao
1/4 of a clip Ammo gen on his initial mark would be cool. Also putting lvl 1 space jam in his movment ability would help him reposition better.
I agree with wanting to see true supports as you put it. I really like using corvus with the dmg reduction on heal card for example.
Talent Concept: While Jenos is in Steller grant 50% of it's befits to allies with the Astral Mark including card effects. maybe allow Jenos to Fire his weapon in Steller Wind (No Reloading tho)
Basic Changes could be Speed (Space), or Cooldown Reduction (Time)
Yes! More utility on supports please!
Most supports have cc, supporting the team with stuns and slows. But it's a different thing. It would be nice to see more buffers
I think the laziest way they can buff Jenos is by making Luminery give 10% Damage reduction, though it will still make him a healbot but at least it would make him a bit more useful.
Kinda weird how corvus was made to be a heal bot yet having one of the lowest healing in the game.
I mean unless you're using the first talent his buffs are not great and if you do your entire team relies upon the flank knowing what they're doing. And if you're playing on casual this is not possible.
Corvus can put out some insane healing though, just not super Burst. You just gotta play him right
Maybe a bit more out there, but Marked targets can reduce their cooldowns by a small percentage by dealing damage while marked?
I started maining Jenos, currently on lvl 37, because I liked the way he can secure kills in a flanking position:
To cling to a strong flanker, cast scorpion for more headshots, stay mobile with bunny and stay alive with lotus. I believe Flanknos could be meta against double heal comps and I don't think he lacks of anything. But his cards are kind of meh...maybe his cards need a slight overhaul but again; I say he is actually strong if you play him the way his kit is destined to be played.
PS: ty for Jenos content, I love my walmart Zenyatta
Idea to balance Supports, numbers are not accurate:
Healers (for comps with high health pools):
Ying - certified healbot (we need that), nothing else, just big healing
Lilith - sacrifices her health to heal allies, gives lots of life steal (25-30%)
DMG Amplifiers (for comps with DPS characters of specific or not type):
Jenos - low healing, but gives jump height and small damage amplifier (7.5%)
Pip - mid AOE healing, increases explosive damage team does (15%)
Seris - mid single-target healing, increases hitscan damage the team does (15%)
Misc Buffs (just various buffs):
Grohk - dps support with mid AOE healing that gives more shield strength to allies within totems (20-25%) or regenerates shields
Furia - gives huge dmg buff for several seconds with her burst, has mid healing and gives damage reduction (10%)
Grover - speed boost healer, gives speed (25%) around allies and cooldown reduction (15-20%)
Rei - mid healing but regenerates ultimates
Rest (none of the categories):
Corvus - pocket mid healer that goes around with flankers and helps them kill enemies
Mal Damba - crowd control support who stuns and fears, with mid healing
Io - technically a 7th player, low healing, but works similarly to engineer with gunslinger from TF2
We need more focus on utility for a lot of champions, not crazy over bloated abilities that just do more dmg.
Not related to the video, but what are your thoughts on furia this patch? A friend of mine says she is not consistent enough as a solo support, so i wanted do to hear what tou guys think
Here is something simple, remove Luminary's card (make its effect something Jenos keeps permanently i.e. he always has it) and as a replacement for its slot add as a legendary card this.
"All allies affected by Astral Mark receive 40% of the benefits of Jenos's items bought in the item store."
So that would mean if the Jenos player bought Chronos tier 1 (10% cooldown reduction) the marked player gets 4% cooldown reduction (10x0.4=4), and Armor Plating tier 2 (16% damage reduction from inhand weapon) the marked player gets 6.4% Damage reduction (16x0.4=6.4) . This would make Jenos's purchases be more impactful and tactical for his teammates it would also increase his utility quite a lot.
That's actually pretty interesting and unique!
Lets See
Sone ideas I had- Each time you apply a mark adds 1 second to other mark
Increase base range by 40%
Make Luminary - Give a Passive CC reduction, or maybe even a amp CC like (increase knock back by 15%), ( increase duration by .3 seconds) to those who have marks
Maybe replace Binary with sonething that involves Stellar wind
You leave a trail behind and allies within 20 meters of you gain increased speed as well as share all your card benefits (Similar to skye smoke and dagger)
Replace some of Jenos cards
Astral Cycle - Gives Speed abd Jump instead of duration
Light years -Give it maybe increased vision to stealth even further maybe? Or Increased range before drop off occurs
Honestly I kinda accepted jenos is you buff them there op , you nerf them there ded
Here’s my thought: lean into the “trickle” aspect of his healing. Give him a talent that provides marked teammates with ammo regeneration, a movement boost that slowly ramps up with mark duration, or percentage-based cooldown reductions every second.
I think focusing on utility will really help characters with simpler kits. Just giving a character a ton of healing with a very, very simple playstyle isn't a terrible idea. There needs to be main healers that new players or act as comfort picks. However, when every support is judged based on healing it just becomes who is the easiest character to pump out healing. The talent system is such a good tool to add that utility, but it's sadly not too common.
In fact, I was also thinking about Jenos, it occurred to me to give the ultimate a plus since it is not always effective. They could give him a Fury, Lillith or Ying type ability that is applied to the entire team when firing his energy. Maybe give the team that anti-gravity jump you mention for a while, and I'd even add a small burst of healing to allies, maybe 900 health with a tick that lasts 2 seconds and applies to everyone at the same time. What do you think?
They could change luminary to give marked targets 15% damage reduction so that his heals still has value in the late game if it can reduce the teams damage taken overall
I get what you mean. In Overwatch, Ana and Kiriko (and all the other supports besides Moira and Illari) have consistently been so strong because of their abilities and utility. Things they provide outside of just healing and damage. Ana has sleep and anti, Kiriko has tp and suzu, Bap has immortality, so on and so forth. It's a bit ironic because people complain a lot about Lifeweaver or Mercy healbots in OW, but in Paladins people tend to desire healbots like Grover or Ying.
That's because you can't really outheal a one shot combo, which OW has an insane amount of. Paladins comparatively just has fast burst, which can be healed through if you have enough
@@techwizsmith7963 This is only true for this season of Overwatch, which I wasn’t talking about. Hence why I said “consistently” when speaking g about Ana. Prior to this season, Mercy (one of the lowest healing per second supports) could heal through Sombra virus or even Soldier visor. The amount of healing, burst or otherwise still has never been that important in Overwatch unless we’re talking about double shield where your Ana could just stay back and pump heals into Orisa. Even now, with the dps passive granting reduced healing, you’re still better off picking Zen for discord than you would be picking Moira (she’s kinda good now) or Illari to healbot even though they heal massively more than Zen does. The game is a whole lot more similar to Paladins than it ever has been and you’re still better off picking someone with util + damage than a healbot
Jenos does have cc tho with his q but its weak because all movement skills cancel it which is most of the champions while some have more than 1 movement skill. I have 2 suggestions for this:
1. The airborne effect of his grip can't be countered by resilience beyond 35%...
The cripple talent on q is not an airborne cc so that should still be countered by resi 3 so power cosmeum wouldn't get buffed too much and resilience wouldn't be useless against him either when using the cripple talent.
Movement skills already cancel his q anyway as it should so making his grip harder to counter against players that don't have mobility or have their skills on cooldown shouldn't be a problem right?
This essentially makes Jenos a solid counter pick to champions that lack mobility and force players to respect his grip by saving their movement skills to escape it/playing more passively.
2. i) His dmg over time effect on grip now persists when cancelled by movement skills.
Since damage is not exactly cc i dont think it should be countered by anti cc.
ii) if players use movement skills to cancel his q, they take an extra burst of 300 dmg.
This should stop his skill from being completely useless when countered by mobility.
iii) Add a passive to his base kit where all his skill dmg also benefit from built in cauterize capped at 60% to balance.
Any other thoughts and suggestions?
Allies reflect 10% of damage received while Marked, adds unique DR and a reveal that synergizes with his ult
I feel like The legendary take the cd and duration card effect and those become cards that give buffs, It would also be cool to have a legendary that increase buffs and heal given by the mark if u put those in the cards
Allow charging voidgrip to create a ball of healing energy instead, a small heal over time with an increased amount to marked Allies, or a buff when marks are in range of the ball. Maybe even just make voidgripped enemies the ball.
I think the one thing I would add without nuch thought is the jump cards. That makes him more fun, helps with his ult and his escape. And those leave two slots in his cards for newer cards. It doesn't solve the issues mentionned here though.
My suggestion would be to grant a damage reduction buff to receivers of the astral mark. And maybe give life steal to any player that damages the enemy that's called in void grip. So shooting that enemy only will grant the life steal buff but shooting another enemy would not activate life steal. If that makes sense.
12:39 Did we really forget about old totemic ward?
Hello Andrew, realy love yours vids, can you pls make a video about the bad state of Grohk heals?
stealthy and xstbe video sniping new meta
In effect, he only has four cards to choose from.
He's a different character, just without the retrograde.
and
One wonders if stellar winds really have 65% of the travel speed.
Give Jenos 60% jumps in the sprint ability in base. And make the healer talent have to give 200 shields per 3.5 seconds. And have a card that increases the shield.
his heal is like a lvl 4 meditation
I think they problem as you mention is the lack of innovation of champions talents and cards to make them more unique and situational and alter gameplay rather than which support heals better. For example, Jenos could have a card that when you heal your ally, players in xft radius gain an astral mark for 1s or when using stellar wind your allies are revealed for x amount of seconds.Talents like Luminary, nerf the traditional healing 285 to something lower like 85 and make where players healed by astral mark are now have their health increase by 5%.
A good way that I think could work for Jenos would be. Jenos can no longer heal through walls but I give him much more healing and also a small speed boost for the marked ones.
So just turn jenos into furia?
maybe making his heal delay damage on target as for Nyx?
I think that his movement ability could just be a passive when OoC...holding jump in the air would slow down the fall and allow to glide
and then give him another utility support ability
maybe building him as a flank/support... since he can pretty much heal from anywhere.. making void grip to cripple by default and the movement ability levitation as a passive and the glide as a passive while holding jump... then maybe I dunno giving him some personnal front ark shield a little like vivian....
that would make him a jack of all trade king of none... give some more survavibility so he could act as a flank support/tank while healing the main team thru walls...
I have some ideas on how to buff skye but I just want to know what makes Skye frustrating to fight against. Mainly this update.
Jenos can be very good with 2 flanks, allowing them to win their 1v1's and escape a 1v2 in the backline. Also depends on enemy team comp. If they are alot of burst damage, his healing gets nullified. If they are alot of high fire rate champs his healing his huge
Void grip should have a branding effect that either applies 100% anti heal or a branding effect of 10-20% extra damage. As it stands it's a bit of a lackluster button, you can just save your movement ability when engaging him.
Could also add the cripple talent to base kit.
What about cc inmunity
You make that part of the talent instead of th3 lodauts to try test the ground.
Healing mark grants allies consistent heals for up to 12 sec but cc inmunity only for up to 3 or 5 seconds
That sounds nice to me
Would also like to see Rei's heal buff be moved to Extention and get rid of the Extra range cuz i think there are way to much good healers right now and also give Rei CC immiunity or like hard CC reduction when using envelop with the Talent restraint cuz restraint now is kinda weird
Wait I missed it what did they do to Rei?! 😞
@@bradycoulter207 they Buffed her heal but i think that only should be on Extention cuz right now we have a bit to much heal bots in the game...also like i said give her another benefit when using restraint cuz with anti heal beeing passive with every Champ it is kinda useless
What if his heal skill had 2 or 3 charges? Or is that too op?
They should give supports the effect of one of the items from the item shop, ult charge, meditation, nimble, deft hands. For Jenos fuck the 2nd talent make to to where he can mark enemies and rebuff them. Have luminarie give a team buff. Void grip can do something in the middle
The problem with his healing is that it doesn't save people. They should double his healing per second but cut the duration in half. That way he would still heal the same amount but the healing would be more impactful.
I think it would be gerate if every Support had a unice boost like reis ult charge. But i think u should not give every second Support the same boost. So that one is good against CC and one gives high movement Speed and one gives ult charge and so on.
Rework Jenos's healing talent to make him heal a percentage of his damage to himself and marked allies. Kind of the reverse of Corvus's Grand Design. This increases Jenos's healing output without making him a healbot since it requires him to do damage. If you want utility, give Jenos a lower base cooldown for his mark and rework the cooldown card into a utility card. Also, while we're at it, make Through Time and Space either slow enemies caught in the windup or heal allies that get hit.
jenos ult freeze lobby when you shoot thru the floor in front on you...
I do miss when he was a utility support and not healing support. He’s still a good character you can easily break 100k healing in casual games with him if you have the right cards.
I agree but also its not easy, any buff will make flanks a nightmare, and they are already pretty strong, it should be a buff that doesnt make flanks op, ult chanrge could be. But yea we need more supportive effects in Supports overall
I feel like utility focused supports just don't work in Paladins - Rei is a great example of this where the champ just feels useless as a solo support most of the time, so making more utility focused supports just encourages double support, which the balance team has been trying to get rid of for a while lmao
The cards that increase the heal duration and decrease CD should be in base kit and can be replaced with utility cards or they'll allow people to run the Space Jam loadout without sacrificing Jenos's healing
Who'd win a boi who'd dominate in a game like OW or cauterize
My issue with having more utility supports that don't heal much is that they'll only be viable in double support and double support meta is not very fun most of the time
if void grip would cripple by default that would give him more utility....
Would it be so bad to just buff his numbers but not as much as they did last time? I do like the idea of giving some sort of utility to his mark though.
Mby dmg buff if you apply 2 marks. Or any other good utility if he marks a 2 time.
Damn you, Hammerhead, literally, why are you the most insignificant person I have ever known in my life?
what we need is an ECO support.
Make a vid like this for yag please 😭
Make his primary burst unaffected by cauterize.... Done.
Is it a new hair style? First time seeing it.
It’s hard to balance. Obviously those months back he was just too good - they tuned it down but now he doesn’t feel that great. He’s my most played character but at the moment I just feel my teammates don’t feel happy with a Jenos healer lol.
He needs a buff tbh..
And have you tried Skye with the second talent and bloodbath?
Amazing pocket support 😂
a damage reduction card on his healed mark would be nice nothing crazy ... like up to 10% max
I feel as though the problem jenos. I think him, torvald and maldamba are the only true supports in the. The real problem is that the other healers burst heal. They heal for too much, too consistently. If all heals were done incrementally like jenos, then they could get rid of caut, bring healers in line with one another, make rejuvenate worth something, make minor shielding cards better and so many other tjhings
I main jenos he’s still fine lol
jenos HoT should be the only one ignoring anti healing...
Solo heal damage Jenos is probably the best SUPPORT in the right hands. I used to see someone get top dmg and heals with it every game and I do something similar. Jenos' base weapon is horrible
Make a 5th class, Specialist. Supports that are more about buffing the team/debuffing the enemy team instead of outright healing.
No this is a terrible idea. Already the rework for the shop makes me think enough, we don't need to consider an entire new class. Since support makes sense for the idea you are talking about so an additional class wouldn't make sense. 🤔
Imo Jenos is never a main healer. He heals a lot but not in a good way. Marks many people they healed slowly. In the scoreboard it looks he healed well yet not enough in dire situations thus people die alot.
This is because youre playing jenos wrong hes not a main healer hes designed currently at least to be an off role healer whos main purpose is to go with your flanker to facilitate successful picks you take the void grip talent and you go with your flanker using your f for movements speed and jump height to keep up with them you take the card where when someone dies within 4 seconds of your grip and you go for resets with your flanker if your flank player is good you can completely destroy a team very quickly
I should make a note here that the void grip distance is the other card i 5 star as for loadout go hoard and the ult charge one to start with then max the ult charge one nimble and the lethal last for move speed and jump height after elim and next thing you know you and your flanker are causing so much chaos that most teams won't be able to focus or play effectively ideally the best comp for this is one solo tank preferably ashe or a sheild tank for your team a main support who can heal a lot and then a main dps like tyra or someone similar if you have too you can play on main with the team, another good pair for him is strix as they keep each other safe
Jenos should still be able to heal his team effectively. especially considering your complaints about healer power creep and non existent double healer meta. As it stands he has an extremely bad time trying to keep up 2 tanks.
I like and agree about adding utility to healers. But ignoring jenos issues as a healer won’t do any good either.
Again complaining about keywords and buffing supports but they opted to do those things to balance everyone getting cauterize globally for free. Key words either need to be added to all healers or should be removed from all healers I agree it’s an issue but All the big talk about wanting more skillful play seems like just talk when the meta you’d rather have is overpowered flanks that can go solo diving backlines for free and being able to get away essentially unpunished for potentially making a bad play and not playing with your team as the game is designed and intended to be played
🤔
Stop trying to mess up every champion, jenos is fine, mess with him and he will become overpowered. He’s not about burst heal, he’s more about sustained heal, your asking for more burst heal from a champ that heals through walls lmao. Get real.
Jenos is simply outdated. He shouldn't have to run Cooldown as a card as a support. The cooldown should be in base kit like all other supports. Additionally, the cooldown shouldn't be as high 7 seconds. they should lower it to a base kit of 4, and provide a little bit more burst, with a less extended duration of maybe 10 or 8 seconds instead of 12. Also, his other cooldown cards need to be reworked into something else. His abilities are fine in terms of function, but he relies too much on cooldown cards to be viable. He needs a large rework to modernize his dsck.
Ying, Grover, Damba, Pip all have cooldown cards as well.
true, but their other cards offer much more utility and diversity to their gameplay. @@lovethepandainyou
@@user-ts1hs6ki1x not really. You need those cards if you want to go heal. Any loadout without those is trash. For dps support playstyles, then yes, I will agree.
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You are wrong about him having a low wr in high elo not being surprising. The fact that peopke are picking him there is surprising. This is coming from a Jenos main.
SUPPORTS KILLED OVERWATCH BECAUSE THEY HAD TOO MUCH UTILITY