That Pesky Oil Leak!
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2024
- Put this one off for way too long… dang oil leak!
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Hey Trent, A&P here... That bolt on the top of the turbo.... central housing rotating assembly (CHRA) is a banjo fitting. It is the oil supply line to the CHRA, and is subjected to full engine oil pressure. You are correct in saying that it has two "crush" washers located on it. They are usually made out of aluminum or copper, and are SINGLE use washers. Yes, tightening the bolt up, will give you a little more crush, but now, it is not at the proper torque anymore. The correct fix, is to order two new crush washers, and install them, torquing the bolt to the correct torque spec. That banjo bolt HAS to be safety wired!! It may be, and because of the camera angle, we are unable to see it. If it is not, please do so ASAP!!!
Your fix should be temporary, and now that the bolt is outside of its torque setting could be a safety of flight issue, coming loose and causing an oil fire..... please fix!! We need you around!!!!!!
😳
A second A&P weighing in here, everything stated above is most definitely a concern. A couple of crush washers is such a quick, cheap, easy fix that its a NO BRAINER to go ahead and just do it. I hope Trent sees this!
Wilco! I’ll order up some new crush washers and make sure to safety wire it 👍 I appreciate you guys!
To add to what others have said, I have, in the past for such fittings, annealed the crush washers as well to soften them up a bit. You just get a torch and heat them up until just barely red then let them cool slowly. And a question for the A&Ps: Why no lockwire for the banjo bolt? NM, I see that has already been addressed.
Armchair idiot here. As soon as Trent said he tightened the bolt on top that "feeds oil to the turbo" I did a double take.
That seems _really_ important.
And I noticed no safety wire.
Like, if that backs out mid flight, seems Trent would have a bad day.
Glad to hear Trent is going to get it done up right.
Licensed A&P here, I know you're just trying to do what you can with what you've got. BUT as a general rule of thumb, its a bad practice to just start snugging things up hoping to fix a leak. Especially stuff thats safetied! Your best course of action, if you suspect a leak somewhere, is to get new gaskets, crush washers or seals(whatever it may be) and follow manufacturer data for removal, inspection, and install. Torque values are your best friend for this stuff! We just want you to stay safe! Im not particularly familiar with this engine, but the thought crossed my mind that the bolt could possibly be over torqued or could crack now and that would result in loss of oil, and probably catestrophic engine failure. Not trying to be a keyboard warrior, just trying to look out for you!
100%, nipping up hoses, connection... no no, new washers and gaskets+correct tork value and last but not least, correct use of Locktite applicable.
I appreciate you Liam! I’m going to get some new crush washers and torque to spec. I didn’t wrench on the banjo bolt because I definitely know better. This was more of finding the leak and now I know it solved it I’ll get the correct washers and torque.
Someone has never been around bush or ag pilot’s 😅
@@6by6by6 Yeah, sure, but this is Trent Palmer with a cities worth of people looking over his shoulder. 'Give it a good bang and see what happens' is educationally unprofound, even if it works most of the time.
"I tried some things and I hope that fixed the problem, I feel very good about this engine and I trust it will hold" 😇
Hi Trent! My dad was an active Pilot and A&P for over 62 years. He started out when he was 17 working on Biplanes and Piper Cubs, Stinsons, Cessnas, etc. I helped him completely restore a 1940 Piper Cub L4 and then a 1929 Brunner Winkle Bird biplane (It was an early mail delivery plane). He always reminded me that a leak of any kind could be a symptom of a bigger issue and never assume a minor adjustment fixed it properly. Some times, at least on the engines built from 1929 to 1990 that he worked on, the leak problem could be just the tip of the ice berg. So to speak! Although todays newer engines have their own qualities and issues. Just wanted to share some of my dad's experience. Thank You!
Nice piece mate, thanks.
Love your work Trent.Interesting to see some maintenance and the inner workings. What happened with engine out i must have missed that incident? How about a recap. Cheers.
As a classic car owner, if its leaking oil it means theres still oil inside
But a bit disconcerting when in the air.
Classic harley owner here and I agree whole heartedly, besides how else are you going to know where you parked last?
As a classic car owner with money, I fix the leaks.
When I was a kid in the 1960's my '55 Chevy quit leaking oil. I checked the dip stick and it was dry. I decided to change the oil instead of just adding oil. When I pulled the drain plug, not a drop of oil came out. My Dad just shook his head and walked off.
Oil came from the earth, and it shall return
This is exactly how I started. An irritating leak and before I knew it… tore the whole engine apart.
Thank you for publishing in 4K. Not only does it look much better, but it also prevents RUclips from demanding a premium subscription to even see 1080P without horrific compression.
Not being an expert at all on Rotax, I popped over to its website to check out its parts list. Interesting that the turbocharger has its own mini-oil sump supported by a dedicated scavenge pump, even though the engine doesn't rate one for the main lubricating system. The oil supply to the turbo has a check valve so that if the turbo has a shaft seal failure there is no chance of high pressure air or exhaust pushing back up the line - although in this application it is hard to picture a condition where boost pressure would be higher than oil pressure. Seems like they added a lot of complexity to partially isolate the turbo lubricant system from the crankcase.
Give us more about the engine and mechanics 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@TrentonPalmer , You did fine with finding the oil leak. I would suggest drilling the bolt to allow the installation of safety wire.
I enjoy your videos..👍
⚠️None of the fuel banjos are wire locked either on 914 or 915.
Rotax only safety lock things they deem necessary
I would like to see you do a video on front shock pressure and rear shock pressure' I have know of telling what my back shock is doing
Hey Trent. Oil analysis is great but cut open the oil filter too. I've seen engines with a lot of metal in the filter and a clean oil analysis report. If the metal particles are large they won't show up. I cut open a filter on an engine that was running great with good compressions once and found a handful of metal in the filter. After you cut open the filter housing, cut out the paper filter element and rinse it in solvent, then filter the solvent through a blue shop town to collect the solids. Use a magnet to look for any ferrous metals and visually look for non magnetic flakes. Date and keep these shop rag filters in a ziplock as a record of your engines health and so you can look at then later to see trends. Aircraft Spruce or Wicks sell several tools for cutting filters open.
Coffee filter papers and mineral spirits.
Been in powerhouse start up Flush crews... works everytime.
A video of doing this would be fantastic
I had chunks in the oil screen, none in the filter, oil analysis was perfect. Analysis of the chunks said case material. Instructions from lycoming were to fly 25 hours and re-check. Turns out the center main bearing migrated into the crank which was shaving it down. Overhaul finished yesterday.
I love how you put effort into video production even for a simple oil change
Total professional.👍
Interesting to not see safety wire on oil filter or on the bolt that was tightened which resolved the oil leaking problem.
Should you normally Lift the tail wheel up so all the old oil comes out? I just know with motorcycle oil changes its good to kind of tip the bike this way and that to try and get all the oil out. Obviously I am sure you know, too little oil is always better than too much, so I would always go way short on first fill and then run it up let it cool off, check it and add from there.
1. The AvLab folks advised me to drain the oil when it’s hot, if you let it get cold any suspended particulates in the oil could settle to the bottom and give a false reading on the analysis.
2. I mounted a whiteboard in my hanger where I post the key facts about the airplane maintenance, inspection due date, hours on the last oil, change, etc.
3. Removing the filter always makes a good size mess. Next time I do an oil change I’m going to try punching a hole in the bottom of the filter and draining the filter.
Good morning from Minnesota.
Former Aircraft technician here ( F111, Panavia Tornado), it is recommended that safety wire have 6 to 8 turns per inch. Some of yours look to have way more than that.
Maybe 1 should replace the banjo washers
Top tip from Rotax when purging .....
Turn the prop as slowly as possible.
This actually speeds up purging as it maximises crankcase pressure especially if you hold each compression at TDC momentarily.
Try it, you’ll be amazed ⚠️👍
How does the crankcase pressure help with purging a dry sump?
the first time I heard that and seems pretty dubious to me
on those stairs, put up a hand rail, they look like they'll be slick in winter weather
Hey Trent. Which Gravelly Valley are you going camping at? Is it Lake Pillsbury in the Mendocino National Forest? Just curious because that’s my neck of the woods.
7:32 those form-a-funnels are the cats meow! Fun story, my wife is friends with the daughter of the guy who invented them. Another Wisconsin aviation root, it's amazing how much history is here!
I absolutely love those flexible oil mats! Wonderful for tight spaces
Love the videos, Trent! 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Why aren't you using constant tension band clamps? Worm screw clamps are not reliable, and they're more likely to over torque and damage the hose.
Fill up your coolant overflow bottle while you're at it 😜
I don't see why that banjo on top of the turbo isn't safety wired. As an A&P I would drill the bolt head so I could safety wire it. It's just like race bikes or cars, anything that has oil or coolant in it, safety wire it. The bolt could have loosened just enough to release the crush.
Hi Trent, I believe you need to spin the propeller 3-4 times with the oil cap opened before getting the oil out so you can get all the oil on the sump (you might have done it but it wasn't on the video). Thanks for the videos
yeah, or without the oil-filter (if i remember correctly) as there is some oil in engine itself.
Trent, I sent you a facebook message. You should really think about putting the proper kind of hose clamps on there. These engines are supposed to have spring clamps instead of worm drive clamps. Spring clamps will keep constant pressure and wont detroy your hoses when the metal fitting expands and contracts. I will look up where i got the right ones for my Rotax and send you the info.
3:47 "Tighten that bolt down a little bit...." Ehhh.. Maintenance manual? Bolt fitted with, or without copper rings? Torque value , accordig the book... that is the procedure.
Being an aerospace engineer, I would secure that hot/cold bolt on the turbo with lockwire. The copper rings will get softer in time due the hot environment. The bolt loosens in time a little as Trent said.
Imagine it come off and the oil line spitts oil over the red hot turbo....there my lockwire gets its mandate.
Love those easy peasy fixes! It's great to get to see the engine un-cowled now and then.
I see you reinstalled your 3 blade
I hope your oil leak stays fixed. Years ago, we had a little car that we loved, but it developed an oil leak and no one could fix it.
But the car I have now topped that sad situation. Took it in for a routine oil change and a new battery. They told me the head gasket and oil pan gasket were leaking. In the year and a half since then, everything that could go wrong seemingly went wrong. Resealing the engine involved not one, but TWO head gaskets, because it has two heads. They didn't notice the crack in the radiator; I wound up having to call AAA while watching foaming coolant dripping out. They didn't replace the spark plugs with the engine reseal, but later. They didn't replace the spark plug wires with the spark plugs, but later, at which time they replaced one of the coils. But the car has two coils, so later they replaced the second coil. The tranny needed service; they replaced it with a rebuilt. The car still wasn't happy, shouting Check Engine at random times, and each time there was a different issue. One of the cylinders wasn't holding compression, so they replaced the short block. Later, the oil pump had to be replaced, which meant the engine had to be torn apart again. Car still wasn't happy, so they replaced the wiring harness, which involved removing the valve covers or something. By now it should have all new parts under the hood, but of course it doesn't, and it's still not happy.
It might even be leaking oil, even though it never did before. I love the car, it has low mileage, but I need to get a new one.
It's a good thing airplanes are more meticulously looked after than cars. I hope this means you don't get stuck on some kind of hamster wheel of repairs, like I have been.
Nice variety of a video today. Great troubleshooting to solve the oil leak. Used to hate finding oil leaks on my car back in the day.
I hate to say this, but where were your chocks when you hopped out with it running?
I’m surprised that banjo bolt didn’t have safety wire, if it backs out she’ll be done running in short order.
Oil line on top of your turbo should have a safety wire on that pressure line. Just saying😮
If that one was loose what others are loose?.
Cool maintenance video Trent.
Mine leaking one, two drop of oil in winter time behind water pump fitting, in summer no leak. I think they build these engines in climate controlled rooms and when it get too cold, it leaks a little bit.
The over-filled oil tank may be due to your not having "burped" the engine just prior to draining out the old oil? Adding the specified amount of new oil with some residual old oil in the crankcase may have resulted in your over-filled situation? Also, use of constant tension hose clamps may aid in reducing coolant system leaks.
I think you are right on not burping prior to the oil change. And most of my coolant lines have constant pressure clamps, the only ones that aren’t are to feed the cabin heater, but I should swap those!
Yes, you are correct David!
I worked on Rotax engines for a while and before you do a oil change you want to get all oil out of the sump into the tank. To do that gently turn the prop by hand and best way is to hold it at max compression a little longer. This makes it a lot easier and you don't need to do as many rotations as if you would go faster.
Also when checking your oil level on the engine, burp first and then check!
What I do on oil changes is service, spark plugs first and do diff leak down test. The byproduct of that is that the engine is thoroughly burped because of pressurizing the tops of the cylinders with compressed air on leak down . Then I do an oil change and remove virtually all the oil out of the tank.
It seemed you had a significant amount of oil in the crank case that you returned back During your propeller revolutions after the oil change. Not ideal, but glad you found it now, instead of having all that oil vent over your belly, and freak you out when you landed away from homebase on your first flight. That would get my attention for sure
Trent, experimentals, Rotax power, you SHOULD get in the habit of pulling the cowl & going over EVERY NUT & BOLT with tools. Get your hands dirty. Its not a car or truck or even certificated aircraft. Stuff works loose due to temperature & vibration cycles. If memory serves Rotax has a whole "oh shit that loosens up" moments. Cylinder hold down bolts etc. The hose clamps should be replaced with non marking ABA / Marine grade stainless if they don't have it already.. Those engines rev, & vibrate. Even with locktite & safety wire stuff can work loose. Since you do a lot of off field landings. Check the engine mount hardware esp firewall to the mount. If you have not put your own hands on it you do not know. Fly safe.
put a newspaper bag on your oil filter and then when you spin it off, it goes right in the plastic bag. You just then need a rag to catch the drip before you spin on a new filter
No hose clamp and safety wire on the oil filter?
Not necessary when you have a viton oring since it provides pressure preventing it from turning off plus these filters are torqued way too much anyway when they really only need to be hand tight.
Always nice when it's something simple!
Hey Trent- Been following along w you for a long time, even before you had the Rotax. Hey i would have liked hearing from you about all the details on oil and filter. Like what kind of synthetic, what
weight, how many quarts, what your
drain interval is, and
what your sample test
shows and what your results were. You know.. the nerdy details;'). Your hanger is so cool. Love those hex lights. Getting them for my garage.
That guy made sense about the crush washers and torque.
Just solved an oil leak on my Porsche Cayenne,,, i would never have guessed that the mechanic would have over tightened the drain plug with a 12 point fitting into my ALUMINUM plug. It caused a hairline crack throughout the plug. That oil change cost me almost 700$ cuz i had to do it twice. I bought a bullet proof stainless steel one. Now all i will have to worry about is them stripping the drain pan. ( and i have had that happen❗️on another vehicle)
Bob-Benbrook, TX
"frickin amateur hour here" ... LOL
I’ve been a mechanic most of my life and it’s always been satisfying when you’re able to fix any oil, exhaust, hydraulic or air leaks.
Thanks for making another interesting video about the process of repairing problems with your equipment that anyone could have and could be very helpful to a lot of people dealing not just with aviation but any type of combustion engine, turbo or transmission fluid leaks.
Coolant leaks are also a serious problem in aviation, but since you’re running an air cooled engine you don’t ever have to worry about that other than in the foam or an oil cooler.
Fine job thanks again for sharing another excellent, informative and entertaining video with us.
The Rotax is an liquid cooled engine. It has fins on the cylinders, but the main cooling system is liquid.
In response to flexairz
Ohhhhhh
My bad
You are 100% definitely correct.
For some reason, I thought to save weight that they were just air cooled and Trent even mentioned that there is some sort of coolant leak as well.
@@flexairz More precisely, just the heads are liquid cooled, while the cylinders are air cooled (as you said).
Hi Trent, just wanted to say I really like the shot of the FreedomFox flying into the sunset at the end of the video. Really nice shot
Print nice shop on the margin, oil builder. And why are we marking the rest of the stuff? I like your show. Always have, I'll talk to you later and take care reply. Safe man, you're be safe.
Little shocked that banjo bolt doesn’t have lock wire on it.
In turbo leak from the cartridge seals will usually go out the exhaust or in the intake. Unless it is cracked. That is rare. The oil feed and return lines are much more likely to leak externally. It can happen with larger temp changes as you explained.
Cowboy's coming back this summer ???
As always, brilliant video production! Rotax engines are dry sump, and when not running for a while, the oil all pools in the oil tank - but as you were running it on and off to test the oil leak, chances are some oil was still clinging on up in the head area and hadn't managed to drain back down to the tank yet when you came to the oil change?
Sweet video!
Funny with all the A&P folks coming out of the woodworks.
I think you are fine, new washers and gaskets are great though.
I’m sure you’ve been flying and doing this longer than most of us and of course been around plenty of people who do this stuff daily.
All I saw was somebody knowledgeable, wrenching on their own aircraft and doing a great job!
Such a nice property. Hangar, house, land and location.
Some what jealous 😊
Hello Trent, did you check the chip detector? It's the bolt situated above the oil filter (safety wired).
Hi Trent. With those copper crush washers, its generally not a good idea to reuse them. They tend to sprout new leaks very easily when reused. If it was torqued properly previously, then became loose and was tightened again, I'd consider that a reuse. An oil change might have been an excellent opportunity to fit a new washer. Sorry if it sounds like a criticism. I've fitted thousands of those washers on oil, brakes, and hydraulic systems and never had good luck with reusing them. It's definitely been worth fitting new ones each time. They're not very expensive.
Well done on catching it early. Its a great way to keep your plane's belly clean.
wurth sealant and spring clamps for coolant hooses will never leak as they self tension 👌
Hey couple of new crush washers and you should be good to go! Way easier than the small leak I had on my Cesena. Tach drive seal went and the 40 year old tach cable really didn't want to come off. I had to pull the starter and oil filter for access!
Also for the future, if you get some developer for dye penetrant NDT you can use it to hunt for oil leaks.
Looks like maintenance videos get a lot of comments:).
Trent. Love seeing you do some maintenance. Do you have any maint training or certifications?
I’d highly recommend the rainbow aviation LSRM course. Or some of the Lockwood rotax courses..
Did you build the plane and get the repairman certificate for the plane?
The copper washers are designed to expand and contract , over time they can get a bit fed up doing that and kinda let out an engineering version of a sigh
So yeh looks like that tiny nip sorted it
Well done
What happened with that pesky FAA problem? Hope it ended well
Still no word from the DC District Court of Appeals…
@@TrentonPalmergood luck. I'm sure you will do fine.
Hi Trent...been a subscriber for several months now and really enjoy your videos. When I pay-off my house next year (after 32 years, lol...) I'm planning on purchasing/building a KitFox. I agree with the other comments on the Banjo fitting washers/safety wire. My additional concern is the oil filter.
1) I always fill the fresh oil filter with new oil prior to installation - but I'm not familiar with the Rotax "burping" process which may fill the oil filter thus preventing brief oil starvation upon engine start-up after oil/filter change. I realize the horizontal position of the oil filter makes this difficult, but if re-install is performed properly/quickly (with the cool green flexible oil funnel to catch spillage) even if you lose a small amount of oil out of the filter, it is still better than a dry filter at start-up.
2) With so many critical items being safety wire/tied, why is the oil filter not safety wire/tied? There are some oil filter brands (K&N) that have a stamped hex nut spot welded to the bottom of the filter housing with holes in the hex nut for safety wire.
Stay safe and keep up the spectacular videos..!! 🙂-BR
Hmmm, electric motors don’t have oil leaks. Just a thought….😅
Good job!
How many hours do you have on your 915is?
467 as of this video, now at about 10 more than that. Flying season is here!
@@TrentonPalmer I have a new 915is going in my TSI Friday. Wonder how many years it will take to get to TBO.
So that hollow oil line turbo cooler bolt thingy. Why is it not wire tight? That is kind of important. get it. There should be a bolt with a hole in it for the wire. If not there should be find it...
Gravely Valley as in Lake Pillsbury? I half grew up there.
Why is nobody talking about the really cool spray bottle at 1:12??
amzn.to/3UDVJVr 🤘
@@TrentonPalmer Awesome, purchased!
Hmm, Overflow. Vacuum issue?. Are there oil catch cans for those aircraft. is it necessary?
your coolant looks low if that’s what’s in the jug
What piston aircraft doesn't leak oil 😂😂
You should consider drilling and wiring the turbo inlet line.
My 912s poh suggests copper washers are replaced at something like 5 year intervals but check that
Like you we just wait n see as here in UK temperature changes are not that great
No matter how many times I see it, I'm still blown away by Trent's hanger lighting system. Plenty of light when you want to service (whatever) then change into your disco clothes and DANCE!!! 😂🤣😉
This was still on the lowest setting too! Haha
@@TrentonPalmer I just love the way it looks. While watching you build/assemble it I was wondering, "What the hell?!?!", but after it was complete I thought is was genius. Everything about your hanger makes me wish I had one!
@TrentonPalmer Did you overcome the radio interference issue from the lights Trent? If so, what was the solution? Cheers from Australia.
I just realized, there is no filter on the air intake?
The filter lives in the cowling, so it normally has a filter, just not when I was doing these runs without the cowling on
@@TrentonPalmer ….. ok, that makes more sense, thank you 😊
I find it odd that the oil supply banjo for the turbo oil line wouldn't have safety wire on it. Why would Rotax miss such an obvious thing?
Don’t ever own a c145/o300 😂
When the engine gurgled, its supposed to, i know on the older engines before checking oil levels, you gurgle it to move the oil round to check the correct oil level, if it done when its sat fir a while its bad to over fill. Anyway thats what im told on my flight training :)
Chocks?
I thought Hey there must be some sort of dye system to locate leaks of oil. A quick check on the Web soon located several that do this job. Looks like a QED to me! Regards Jim the Brit in NI UK
I'd spray the area with brake clean and then check. Also, they safety wired the turbo drain pot, but not the turbo oil inlet side?
Howdy Trent, I'll keep all my free advice to myself. ......Your welcome.
And thanks for the video.
@@varieze117pj7 you're welcome.
Most of these people in the comments would probably have a stroke hanging around your average experimental aircraft owner, you’re going good Trent. You must have one of the cleanest regularly-flying experimentals out there. Nice work as always.
Haha, thanks Marty!
With Rotax maintenance manual you need to change rubber hoses avery 5 years.
Really looking forward to all the A&P comments on this one...
Haha, plenty chiming in! But I appreciate the insight so I’m glad they are
@@TrentonPalmer absolutely! My thought was "I'm definitely going to learn something reading these"
Good show.
I also have a Rotax 915. I thought it was going to be like owning a modern automobile engine with respect to reliability. Foolish me. Valve cover leaks, breather vent drips , coolant lines leak inside the cockpit and out. Erroneous faults and now a Belleville gearbox washer worn at 600 only hours. I surmise it must be a high frequency buzz that these motors make that loosing things up including rivets… Love the performance and power but she’s a high maintenance compared to all my motorcycles, SXS and snowmobile…🤷🏻♂️ Also did you purge the oil into the tank prior to draining it? If you forgot that might be why there was extra oil in the system.
Wow, I haven't had any of those issues on my 915! (But I don't have as many hours on mine.) Hopefully mine remains trouble-free🤞 but now I know who to message if I have any of the issues you mentioned!
Burp before you change the oil not after. Don't bother asking me how I know (Europa XS w/ ROTAX 914 & Airmaster C/S Prop)
Don't give up, Trent. Peace.
Is the bird sick?!
I dunno...a "gut feeling" fix may not be the precedent to follow. What would a good aircraft mechanic do as an extra check for assurance?
Why isn't the banjo bolt safety wired? That is a pretty critical connection.
Won't lie I've always thought that oil leaks are just a part of aviation
Only on radial engines 😂
Camping trip cool
It's not "leaking," it's just marking it's territory.