Leopold FC660C: better stock Topre experience than the HHKB
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- Опубликовано: 28 дек 2018
- The FC660C is a unique 66% Topre keyboard.
It has a metal backplate, which makes the typing experience quite a bit different from the ever popular HHKB.
This is probably going to be the last of my Topre coverage for at least a little bit, but I'll be coming back with boards that are a little more premium.
Boards seen in this video:
Leopold FC660C Black with Gray keycaps
PFU HHKB Profesional 2 black on black
01:55 : Rama M60-A Kuro with Cherry WoB
06:23 : Rama M65-A Lunar Red with GMK Camping
06:45 : IBM Model M SSK
07:25 : Winkeyless B.Face x2 with GMK Nautilus
07:30 Rama M60-A Kuro with GMK Olivia
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WOW i cant believe you just carelessly chucked that keyboard in the trash!
Thanks for this review, you just helped me choose a keyboard for my new job. Keep up the informative content, love the attention to detail.
My gosh this video has blown up big time. Congrats. As an FC660C ower, the HHKB is always on my 'Want but don't need' list. I like keeping mine at work as it's fairly quiet an small enough to fit in my drawer.
And that was the most gentle and loving disposal of a keyboard I've ever seen. It's like you knew you couldn't be together, but wanted to let it down gently. Beautiful.
So good to have more reviews on this board; can never complain about more mk reviewers on youtube
lovely touch at the end haha
Sound test at 5:49
I think now we need a comparison between with these two and the new updated HHKB
Always happy to see a new video from you. You get down to the details but never in a way where it feels like you’re just splitting hairs. These small distinctions add up. I just ordered a 55g RealForce 87U, so, selfishly, I’d be curious to hear your take on that Topre board at some point.
The Topre Realforce RGB comes with double shot abs with clear legends iirc.
Yeah new video!
Just began using Leopold's updated board, but the MX Cherry Clear variant, and I love it. Same solid build quality - a very satisfying typing experience.
HHKB enthusiasts come as close to Apple fandom without the emo overload when facing product critique. You have every right to exercise personal preference without the feeling of needing to apologize. Lol @ 8:40...pure gold and with such class and precision care.
Honestly hhkb is really nice; it doesn’t give you that instantaneous quality feel like others, but once you start carrying it to work daily, you quickly come to realization how well designed it really is; I have other custom $600+ keyboards and while they absolutely rock, sometimes you just miss the simplicity and light weight of hhkb
I feel the opposite. I loved my hhkb but the case felt so light that it made the board feel cheap. Throwing it in a polycarb heavy grail makes it perfect now
i agree with you. i have a slew of custom boards but the one i keep on my desk at work every day is the hhkb. its consistent, weighted well, and no frills. i bet the leopold fills the same niche
Same, the HHKB is the daily driver for work. I can type faster with my MX HHKBs, but I really enjoy the softer typing experience for longer periods of typing.
I have a tough time deciding between these and a NiZ plum ...
About the button config though: As programmer why do you rely on hardware customisation? I use custom AHK scripts on each periferial to remap the behaviour to whatever required.
Yo funny question but maybe want to change keycaps of leopold (if you still have it)? I have black ones. At least alphas. I like two tone look on boards generally or higher contrast
I realize it's been a few months since you posted the video. But if you're still checking comments, ctrl+insert and shift+insert are also copy and paste respectively. I find them useful because most terminals glob ctrl+C and ctrl+V as special signals.
Fn+up/down also map conveniently to page up/page down. I end up using these a lot when browsing documents and webpages.
ctrl + shift + v/c in terminals
Awesome breakdown and comparison. I must say tho that either topre keeps sound lofi compared to other keebs, or I think I should suggest getting a microphone upgrade.
I completely agree with the title of this video as an owner of both! If you go stock Topre, FC660C is the winner IMO, even holds its own against a Realforce!
thats exactly where I am. I got an r2 pfu and an fc660c, and stock experience I think leopold wins. Better feeling, better layout, i can type faster...all subjective but Ive used both for about three months now.
(Note to self: Leopold & RealForce)
What size Phillips did you use for the screws?
now you need to get some BKE Ultra Lights. And that is coming from an HHKB... imagine on a FC660C :)
My favorite keyboard
finally I found someone who actually complains about the stupidity of choosing insert/delete instead of home/end or even pgup/pgdown
From what I can tell the up/down and top/bottom are achieved by FN and the 4 arrow keys, starting from that, it makes sense to add insert and delete keys.
@@adrianTNT quite intuitive to use too! especially when shifting the cursor around using arrow keys in a text editor.
i just wanted the arrow keys lol
The FC660C (factory silenced) became my endgame board within minutes of its arrival. It may cost a bit, but saved me a bundle on searching, modding, etc...
Where do you get fc660c?
Get the Hasu controller for true endgame.
@@graveljaw hi brett, do you know any 98 or >100 key leopold c keyboard which is factory silenced? 660c is very good, too bad I need the numpad also. Thanks.
@@Rasyad95 Unfortunately, I do not. I'm still interested in finding a model like this with fn keys.
How are the stabs? Are they better in the low-noise version (silenced)? I am probably going to buy this kB and I think that stabs are the only ‘big’ (not at all a deal breaker) con of the Fc660c.
If you keep the Leopold, get silence-x rings. They eliminate upstroke sound
That m60a thoooo. I wish i got kuro instead of dusk :p
I've owned both, FC was a lot better stock. But after lubing and silence rings, I actually ended up liking the hhkb a lot more. I liked how it sounded a lot more. But Fc660c of course was a lot more rigid.
Hey, do you know if there's a difference between the two generations of leopold FC660C's except the colors available? I want to get another one because my old one (grey keycaps) broke and I wonder if the new version is any different
Old version: made in China, laser-etched PBT keycaps, not available in a low-noise variant. New version: made in Japan, dye-sublimated PBT keycaps, and low-noise variant is an option. No other differences that I am aware of.
I have an leopold and they are by far the best and ive tried alot
do you have any advice on how to remove the spacebar keycap? I swear it wont come off even if my life depended on it
My suspicion is that you might not be using enough force.
Try clearing a good amount of caps around it, and get your index finger under the sides and see if you can lever it up
I haven't heard of keycaps getting stuck ever, but maybe a previous owner, if used, used some kind of hardening lube?
4:10 Introduction to Algorithms, such good use to put the HHKB on it
As the topre switches are pretty specific (special pcb etc...) I wonder if taking keyboard like that and customise it is possible ?
With custom keycaps, case, plate etc..
Maybe theres another 60% generic keyboard with topre switches I can choose for that ?
Topre switches live in an entirely separate world from all other keyboards, so you will only be able to use parts that are made specifically for them. At this point, the only real aftermarket cases are from norbauer, and I've seen some keycaps from KBDFans
Space cadet gray and blue is awesome and practical looking.
Everyone has their own preference. For me, it is a little bit distracting when moving my fingers to touch arrow keys. However, to be honest, if you are a starter in 60% or 65% keyboards, this Leopold keyboard is really a good first-step choice.
10 000 years of pain banzai!
I have an HHKB and a Leopold FC980C and the typing experience on the Leopold is far superior.
actually am thinking of buying hhkb , but then i been looking at leopold and after reading your comment am going to buy the leopold
Hi there, I am wondering how many "G" is better for long time typing ? 30 or 45
@@MrWh4327782 it depends. 30 grams is a lot lighter, like light enough to be actuated by the weight of your fingers, however you might find the lighter weight to be less fatiguing, especially if you have small hands.
@@jackp3125Thank you very much for the reply. I really appreciate it.
I’m in a bit of a pickle here because this keyboard seems to be better because of the backplate but I can’t use non-HHKB layout anymore because I like it so much 😅😅
This would be an instant buy if it had a split backspace. I use the back tick a *lot*.
I like HHKB more than Leopold. The keycap of Leopold feels small, and they still don't have a wireless version.
660C seems like a great board for the price
great video, definitely recommend hasu controller.
Does this keyboard exist with nordic layout? Im form denmark, and i would love to have this keyboard!
39brogade No it doesn't. It supports English US and Korean. But we always programmable approach.
What is ur favorite STOCK keyboard (66% being the biggest i would go) ? im not into building my own custom keyboard ''yet''.
I haven't tried many stock keyboards but my top is the iKBC MF87
@@JYMV What about comparing Topre with Cherry MX in iKBC MF87? This keyboard better than all in general or in all parameters, including switches, for you?
10,000 Screws I'm weak xD, I would assume MX sliders will fit the same?. Also I agree with the return sound on the HHKB, sounds awful, I definitely lubed the tops where they rebound to dampen the sound.
Why there is no Bluetooth version
Using CLRS as a keyboard stand ;)
Dip Switches are from the 70s, full visual configuration is what we need.
Your videos are 10 thousand screws out of 10 as always
In the future this man uses hhkb as his daily.
The blue scheme is a nod to the space cadet scheme from the 80s
I purchased that version - the thought of "cheap" looking blues never came across my mind. Just goes to show how past experiences can influence or create perceptions in reality that not everyone sees/feels.
does this keyboard feel like brown switches? Im on speakers so Im not sure exactly but that's what I thought it sounded like at first listen.
Albert Arriola Which Browns? I’d say Topre is way better than all the Browns I know. If you’re asking if it’s tactile, yes, it is.
@@buttermytoast. Ive only used Cherry MX Browns and they felt scratchy to me but thanks I hear good things about Topre mechanical switches. Trying to choose between Kailh Box Whites, Kailh Bronze, Topre, and Gateron Clears. I currently use 45g Gateron Reds at work (accidental presses occasionally) and Outemu Blues at 55g which I feel are slightkly heavy so I was thinking of trying something in 50g range to balance out my mistakes. Thanks for the response.
Albert Arriola Kailh Box Whites are one of the best clickies in the game, nice click bar click, though I prefer the slightly heavier Kailh Box Jades because of its “THICC CLICC” mechanism.
Kailh Bronze actuate before the click, which is quite annoying. They’re incredibly easy to actuate, because the actuation point is right on the top, even higher than normal box switches. I don’t recommend them.
Topre are nice and soft, if you enjoy work membrane boards softness on the bottom out, you’ll love Topre. It’s incredibly smooth too, and it’s tactility doesn’t shy away. It’s overpriced though, I can’t say it’s worth the steep price, but I still love it. If you can easily afford it, I recommend going for it. (55g is nice and snappy, and the variable weight boards are...interesting. They change the key weight according to your finger (pointer gets 55g, pinky gets 30g, if you touchtype and use all your fingers, it works as intended.)
Gateron Clears really make you think about your typing, they’re incredibly light, so you gotta be careful and thoughtful about your finger placement and presses. An interesting experience.
Is that the Introduction to Algorithms book hahaha?
How dare you not like that blue color scheme.
This is new Leopold Slikk's keyboard? XD
I am very excited to try out my r2 pfu limited edition! I sold my r2 55g because the keys felt too heavy and slowed my typing speed. I hear very good things about the 45g
Do you use a wrist-rest? Any recommendations that fit the leopold size?
Off camera I just have a belkin squishy rest wrapped in a sock
I think kbdfans does / used to sell 65/75% wooden ones that should fit okay
Filco makes one that fits
At 01:55 the keycap set is the GMK Griseann, not the Cherry WoB.
Half correct. I purchased a couple pounds of original wob which I supplemented with a partial set of Griseann. I really only have the keys shown from that set
Is the all black one also a leopold?
That's the PFU HHKB Professional 2
Man i wish i could order this keyboard. But sadly i literally cannot find one site on which it's not out of stock. I'm from the Netherlands. If anyone knows where i could buy this keyboard i would love to know :)
Hi I can find you a leopold fc660c keyboard if you still need that
It has both HHKB and FC660C, but these two are completely different products.
However, FC660C has no wrinkles and is easy to use, but it is not as interesting as HHKB.
Realforce RGB TKL coming soon.... info from its website
I want this gray keycaps
i prefer delete and insert, what do you use home and end for?
Just text navigation for beginning and end of line
Navigation, home, end, page up, and page down. Along with the arrow keys. This is especially true in terminals where mice aren't supported.
I don't know why but I just love the plasticky sound of the hhkb feels like an retro keyboard but don't feel(very subjective)
I think the HHKB wins out over time. Initially, people will hate on it. But the more they use it in their rotation, and potentially mod it, the more it silently becomes their most used board.
The new version of the FC660C is even better IMO. It's being made in Japan instead of being made in China. On top of this, the topre sheets and springs are different between the two versions. If you type on em, the new version is clearly lighter and is closer to the actual 45g realforce topre feel and weight. Lastly, the stock stabs are a bit nicer on the new versions.
Any idea how much one is and where I can get one? I'm really interested in one now since you said it is clearly lighter. :D
@@commanderpachipip5678 I got mine while I lived in Korea...
I believe mechanical keyboards have em but they're currently out of stock.
@@ifeelkindafreee Oh, sucks for me then. Still, thanks for the response.
@@commanderpachipip5678 Leopold is currently having major manufacturing issues and their topre boards won't be in stock for a while. Retail price is around $220
@@asdfqwer3437 Damn, thanks for the information. :(
Are these hot swap able?
They are not
Do they restock that leopold from time to time?
The onyl problem of the fc660c to me is the layout, not having split BS and not having control on caps lock is kind of a deal breaker. Hhkb 4 life 👀 (plus the blockers are sexyyyyy)
I use delete and print screen most often
sounds like hhkb types
The HHKB doesn't even have any stabilisers AFAIK apart from the space bar. Impressive how stable Topre is.
The enter and left shift have stabilizers but it's integrated into the slider under the plate assembly
@@JYMV Ah I see.
HHKB layout >>>>
Where is this sold? I only see this for over $600.
They used to be sold on mechanicalkeyboards.com but they've been out of stock for a while. Same for other US vendors. I think there's been some shift in production, so we should be seeing it come back soonish? Properly priced it should be around 230-270 USD
@@JYMV I've wanted this thing for months. It was the first topre board I ever wanted. I never went through with it though, and since then I've gotten a realforce 87u, then realforce hipro, then hhkb and put hipros on it. I still am thinking of buying the fc660c. Should I do it?
@@vcxz4009 If you enjoy Topre and you can make the purchase responsibly, you should go for it. Always nice to have your favorite switch in multiple layouts
The Realforce RGB has doubleshot ABS caps, but they're MX mount.
1:54 what's the black keyboard in the back?
That would be the Rama M60-A in the Kuro color!
Thanks, how much do they cost and are they still available anywhere?
I paid about 500 for mine and they are out of stock. However Rama has been teasing a white or purple version to be coming out on January 30 possibly. I would keep an eye on ramaworks on Instagram
Thanks for the info. Is $500 some sort of top spec or just a regular price these go for?
I had an extra optional internal weight. I think the absolute minimum was $360+shipping which would most likely come out to $400 to the US
You can get a second hand one at mechmarket, but expect to pay around 600
Okay but that Olivia though!
It's my favorite set of all time. I think it's one of the best designed and best executed set to date.
Custom topre plz T_T
Does it have rgb
There are no leds on this one
Check out the HHKB Type S - the sound is different.
He already has a video on the Type S. In fact, he's also got one where he swaps in BKE domes.
NIZ keyboards rock both of these boards. and way cheaper, sound better. more options.
FC660M is definitely the best 65% keyboard
Edit: *prebuilt keyboard
Lucky you got a M-60.
Wish I could be a proud owner of one ...
go buy a $40 membrane
solved
@@altlllOlOlOll 40 dollar membrane what? You can literally by a magicforce 68 for that price there is absolutely no reason someone should have a membrane
@@mirage1265 just because there are mechanical for dirt cheap DOES NOT mean you get them, thats just dumb.
@@altlllOlOlOll the magicforce 68 comes with outemu switches and an alright case considering how much you are spending it's comparing 40 dollars to the literal cents it takes to make a membrane Keyboard
@@mirage1265 yeah so you have more leeway for quality you ape
bàn phím topre là vô địch trong tất cả các laoij bàn phím cơ nói chung...mình thích nó vì nó ra đời tại nhật
Why did you buy so many HHKBs?
Each time I bought it thinking that I'd like it but end up selling it shortly after
price ?
Seems to be out of stock but it should be around 230-260 when it comes back
@@JYMV omg
I think there is something about the size, shape, and layout of the HHKB. I'd happy get any switch I liked with that form factor copied exactly.
I think all of these years later it's pretty easy to make a better keyboard than the HHKB, but not many are as nice looking and feeling right in front of you.
I think what I want is just an upgraded modern HHKB these days. I'd be pretty swoon with this, or maybe a copy that I could choose my switch with and such.
My conclusion is kind of that the HHKB is just old at this point. It used to be incredibly special, and it's not anymore. That's fine, but I find it weird that so many are still compared to it. Though I do get it, given it's stature, but you'd have to be ridiculous to not see that it's out of date by basically a generation of human beings.
Good review overall. What I hate with all my soul, though is when reviewers sheepishly imitate each other and in their reviews speak unnaturally quicker than they usually do in everyday life with their friends and family. Why they think this is cool is beyond me.
Thank you for the feedback. I think my pace is normal, but the gaps between phrases/sentences often get overcut while editing. I'll see about making it more natural next time
I understand HHKB is not for everyone, but it doesn't deserve to be treated that way.
If it only came in 75% layout...
RAMA M60 A next? 😊
I think next will be either the E6-V2 or the SSK
I want to find switches I like before reviewing the m60
@@JYMV nice!
8:32 HHKBers get reeeee
It's not a better Topre experience, it's a different one. Just like how with mechanical switch-keyboards, some people prefer plateless builds, some prefer integrated plated, some prefer SS, Al, brass, CF, PC, and more. They all have different sound profiles and typing feel.
well, only if leopold has wireless options
The saving grace is that the controller is a separate daughterboard from the PCB. If you can find space for a battery in the case, the controller work is a matter of time.
anybody here from howl
He used to use the M not C
If you're not programming the Del key here is perfection.
The presence of Capslock is the only real problem with this keyboard, by default it should be an Fn key.
Glarses sent me .-.
Save some money. Listen to this guy. I bought HHKB pro , type s , realforce 55g. This one beats all of them.
Man, I have the Ivory R2 lubed with 3203, 205 on the stabs, and Deksys silencing rings and it's hard to imagine this is better as far as typing experience. I love this layout though, do you own both of them?
@@TheRuckus13 Just the silent one. But now I use an Imac and I prefer the magic keyboard and I have to figure out the mapping for leopold.
tin can microphone
That last bit was weird
fkn clrs
aren't these switches literally just glorified laptop keyboards?
Laptops nowadays use a slightly different mechanism. These resemble those older cheap desktop keyboards from the 2000s
If you want an entirely mechanical feel, but capacitive actuation, you have to pony up for a Model F. Topre rubberdomes provide the spring action for the switch, and feel much better than most rubberdomes I’ve typed on
@@shapshooter7769unless you're a true enthusiast, vintage keyboard like Model F is hard to find. Why don't recommend modern keyboard like Wooting instead? Granted it's not actual capacitive, but the latest hall effect switch is close enough in terms of how it works. It also has the benefits of adjustable actuation distances.