Tyrdda Bright-Axe {Lore - Spoilers All}
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- Опубликовано: 7 ноя 2024
- Welcome, welcome! Curious about the Avvar poem you found? Wondering about the history of your favorite staff? Were you spurred by your own leaf-eared lover? Then come and listen to what is known~
Listen to the Codex: • {Codex-DAI} Saga of Ty...
Read the Codex: dragonage.wikia...
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This video does contain story spoilers for the Dragon Age games and other related media.
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"Sky Burials are a real thing that you do not want to Google. You have been warned."
Me: *Pauses video and immediately Googles Sky Burials*
I think its cute honestly
I've seen worse gore like taking a heart out of a living person, so seeing dead people being eaten is just a cake walk.
I think you got one thing wrong: Tyrdda's lover IS the Lady of the Skies. She is named so at several times in the poem, whereas Aval'var only appears in one line. So, I'd read it that Aval'var is what the Lady describes their relationship as - what the poem says is that the Lady called "our journey" Aval'var, which of course is just a literal translation. Notably, the Lady is described as both a spirit (appearing to Tyrdda in dreams, i.e. the fade, a force of nature that slew the dragon...) and an elf (leaf-eared, using Elven language). An elven spirit - an elven god? So Mythal could fit, especially as she was the goddess of love - which fits to the Avvar people being literally named after a long lasting love affair. And getting Tyrdda to have a daughter, with a name similar to Morrigan's... well, it can be speculated that Mythal saw to it to have a female mortal vessel, the same way Flemeth (who only had daughters...) maybe planned to pass on her spark of Mythal to Morrigan.
And then there is Andraste, of course. Who only had daughters (biologically), who in turn only had daughters, and so on. And there are many parallels between Mythal and Andraste as well. So it is possible that Mythal's spark went from Morrighan'nan to Andraste to Andraste's daughters and grand-daughters to Flemeth, probably with some more stations in between.
I really appreciate your videos! Codex entries are something I often overlook so it wasn't until I got to this video and your listened to reading of the codex entry that I learned of this story. It's certainly an interesting piece of lore!
One thing that struck me between listening to the codex and your analysis was that I had interpreted the leaf-eared lover to be a spirit, even the Lady of the Skies herself. When Tyrdda calls out to her, stating that she chose her over a crown, the lover presumably summons lightning to fell the dragon and buries it under rubble. This makes more sense to me if the she was not physically there but rather an ethereal being.
Additional things to note:
• Tyrdda is described as "spirit's bride" in the first stanza. As Andraste is referred to as the "maker's bride," this could suggest they had a similar 'relationship'.
• Twice it mentions "leaf-eared lover, Laughing Lady of the Skies" as if that is her lover's title.
• She "sacrificed" - "to spirits, took their teachings, followed quests." The most significant guide in her story appears to be her leaf-eared lover of whom she "heeded well."
• When the lover speaks to Tyrdda, it's in gentle whispers. Perhaps this just suggests only Tyrdda can hear her.
• When she lay with her lover, she was possibly asleep and in the fade. This would explain why her lover was not there when she woke and why she hears her speak in "dream-words".
• "Lover's whispers to obey." Again, reinforcing that she follows the words of her lover.
• When she passes, she joins her lover, suggesting they are in the fade/in the sky.
Just my thoughts on the matter, but perhaps this might settle your confusion?
I love your videos, but it's driving me nuts -- it's TYR-dda, like "tear-da"!
Not ten seconds into the video I was thinking, "lol, when she does her next roundup she's going to have gotten so much shit for saying the name wrong"
Ngl there's like 4 or 5 completely different ways of saying this name based on real world inspiration for the avvar and fereldan lore and names. There's Tear-da, Tear-tha, Tewr-tha, Tire-da and so on. Tri-da still not one of them though :p
oh my God who the hell cares?!- Peter Griffin
I'm sorry you had to go through that poem so many times to make this, and your codex entry, videos but I am thrilled with the information. It's one thing to read it but to hear it makes he so much better. Besides, you have a great voice! The next DA game is going to just ramp up all of this and, if it is anything like the previous games, will answer one question and give us 20 more in return.
jaspr1999 ... am i the only one with Grey Warden Hype waiting for the next Blight :/ lol?
Alex Lester, - Nope! You're not the only one! I'm kind of expecting a double blight... Two Archdemons from two different directions in Thedas. It would be fitting that the last blight would be en epic one and the Wardens would be in disarray in illprepared for the battle.
jaspr1999
I think it'd be more interesting if one of two things happened...
The Wardens are in fact the Bad Guys that cause the Double Blight Or the Double Blight is in fact a Civil War between the Awakened Darkspawn and the Enslaved Darkspawn with the Two Archdemons fighting each other because one of them was "Cured".
The poem refers to Aval'var as "leaf-eared lover, laughing lady of the skies" which, to me, seems like she isn't connected to the Lady of the Skies but is the lady of the skies (not necessarily the goddess, since I'm not sure if it's recorded anywhere when the Avvar adopted their gods).
Also, Tyrdda's legend-mark might be a later addition, since this poem seems to me like it was made after her death. The same might apply to Thelm Gold-Handed or he could be proof that the practice already existed.
EDIT re when the Avvar adopted their gods: From the codex entry for the mace Sundering, it would appear that the Alamarri at least believed in the Lady of the Skies so it seems that at least one of the gods is pre-Avvar.
I forget now just where I saw it, but I played through JoH yesterday and the day before and there was something -- maybe a conversation with the Augur at Stone Bear Hold? -- where one of the Avvar was like "Well yeah, we know all about Tyrdda Bright-Axe and the stories about her and the Lady of the Skies." Argh, I wish I remembered where it was now.
I think that her name also carries some interesting ideas. Tyr in old norse and old high german means "god" (plus the alamarri have a close similarity with the old germanic tribe the Alemanni) and based on that basis the "da" part could mean multiple things maybe (there, then, etc). Plus I think it's interesting with the connections and parallels to Ragnarok and Fenrir in terms of Solas aka Fen'Harel. I just think it's an interesting idea, especially with the myth about Fenrir biting off the hand of the god Tyr after being tricked and chained (maybe some connection who knows?). I just think it's something interesting to think about.
There is a wall painting of some looming beast with 7 stars for eyes and a woman with antlers. It’s in the broken tower that Solas points out. He says it would be nice to dream in that tower. The tower has a Saga: Tyrdda Bright-Axe landmark in it. What is up with that?!
The lover is the spirit of Mithal, "our journey, yours and mine". Sound's pretty similar to the kind of relationships Mithal forms with people like Flemeth. This is also probably the place where you find statues of Mithal underground.
Also, I'd like to call notice to the "Dwarven hearts were sundered, simple, still with honor". Another example of "sundered" being used in reference to the Titans, as the dwarves hearts are sundered because their spiritual connection to the Titans was destroyed.
Going to say it again, "Sundermount" is the body of a defeated Titan. The current location of Kirkwall is where the voice was sending them to get into the "Golden City". It all goes back to that place. That's where I think the Magisters broke through, that's the source or red lyrium, that's where the elves mined the body of the titan but sealed it up because of a horror, and that is where the blight came from, the spot where the "sundered" titan's malignant polluted spirit pores into the world.
@@AulisVaara I've already determined what the source of the blight is. It's the product of a very cool & similar concept used in KOTOR 2, KOTOR 1 being another Bioware game, and KOTOR 2 having many of the same writers and developers who have been writing Dragon Age's lore.
Only one Titan was slain, the others being put to sleep. The slain Titan's soul was ripped from the realm of spirits and carved up and shared between the elven gods. That created a magical "Void" in the spirit realm, turning the Titan into a negative source of magic, sucking magic, the same way that Darth Nihilus is a hole in the force. Blight magic is the same thing as the Jedi Exile's use of the force. The use of the force is the flow of it, but instead of being a source of force energy, the Jedi Exile channels or pulls in force energy from their companions. Blight magic is the same thing. Instead of pulling magic from a dream presence on the spirit realm, blight magic sucks magic from the real world into the Titan's soul void in the spirit realm. Once an individual is infected with the blight, it sucks out their essence until the only thing left is a ghoul with a hollow echo of their prior individuality, transformed into an expression of the yawning desire to be filled.
That's also why the Old Gods/elven gods are different and still maintain some individuality. They possess a portion of that Titan's soul. That's also why blighted creatures are constantly searching for those old gods. The hunger which they are an expression of wants the return of what the Old Gods stole from it.
So basically, the blight is the same thing as a hole in the force from KOTOR 2.
@@AulisVaara I wouldn't say it's the same story, just a similar concept, but still an uncommon one. Only other examples of this I can think of are the Shadow Weave and Negative Energy from D&D. It hasn't even been touched on again in Star Wars in later games & media. Plus it's a really cool concept. Darth Traya is one of the best villains ever portrayed and her attempt to use the hole in the force was the most beautiful villain/misunderstood hero plot I've seen in a while.
Also, people reuse stories all the time. JJ Abrams has made a career on it.
The "Cutting out of ones heart and sealing it away in a golden cask" relates to the Titan's soul that was carved out of the Fade and how it was contained by the Elven gods. That's what's in the orb that Corypheus got from Solas, the part of the Titan's soul that he inherited from Mithal. That was also why the other elven gods turned on and killed Mithal. The Blight already existed at that time (can't remember the story but there was a story about elves being massacred or confronting some horror underground and having to seal it below). Mithal, who was the one that carved up the Titan's soul initially, wanted the elven gods to release the fragments of that soul, stopping the growing corruption they'd discovered. The other gods had become drunk on the power that the Titan soul fragments had given them however, so they responded with a solid "F-no" and killed Mithal. So, to stop the blight, all of the Old Gods have to be released from their slumber and their portions of the Titan's soul released.
My only question deals with the relationship between the orb, the titan's soul, and the old gods. Is a portion of the soul held by both each of the old gods as well as a separate orb for each of them, or is the orb a conduit that allows the wielder to directly tap the power of one of the old gods, with Solas' being for Mithal. I think it's the latter, as without the orb Solas had to go to the source and take Mithal's soul for himself.
I wouldn't put it past Mythal to actually have been Tyrdda's lover. Especially if said lover was then the Lady of the Skies, who we all know to be how the Avvar refer to Mythal (very probably). Also how said lover keeps nudging Tyrdda's actions, something Mythal is known to do. You know how in the Elder Scrolls people joke about "everything is elves"? In Dragon Age everything is Mythal.
Ángela de la Vega
Mythal is a Elven Goddess so........EVERYTHING *IS* AN ELF!
Everything is about elves in Dragon age too. It's starting to be stale.
@Marphey
Yep indeed...in Elder Scrolls it's the Mer (Elves), LOTR it's the Purified and Corrupted Elves, Dragon Age well you guessed it it's the Elves!
The ONLY thing I can think of where Elves AREN'T center stage is the Witcher....BUT then again there's the Wild Hunt, Scoia'tael and Ciri plus Yen who have Elven-Blood! So it's ALWAYS about the Fucking Racist oh so "Holy" Fucking Knife-Eared Scum who seek but Humanities failures!
#FuckElves #DIVINECRUSADERDIDNOTHINGWRONG
But why would Mythal go through all that trouble to create the Avvar? She stated in DAI that she nudges history when needed. It’s hard to see why Mythal would nudge people to create the Avvar.
I love your videos so much. It's nice to see someone with the same love of the series be some meticulous. Keep it up, dalen!
"over the waking sea".... Like around the Free Marches? Maybe Kirkwall?
@Ghil Dirthalen - Cheers! We all love a good mystery that we almost 'get', don't we?
I wonder if the reference to crossing the Waking Sea isn't actually talking about the physical body of water between Feralden and the Free Marches but is more of a reference to the Golden City being in the Fade (the land of dreams) and having to cross the veil, and the actual Waking Sea was just named later perhaps as a tribute to the poem?
Kaldii But didn't the magisters get into the Fade in Kirkwall? If so, crossing the Waking would make sense, if Kirkwall had a "weak point" in the Veil.
I think Tyrdda cried out, "You I chose above a crown!" not because her lover is upset and not because her lover requires something to act, but because everything she has been doing, EVERYTHING, she had done for her lover. So her lover pushing her to have a child with someone else likely hurt Tyrdda herself. It reads as angry to me, like, "I chose you over everything, and THIS is the thanks I get?!" Also, it's pretty clear that the lover is a woman because...why would they want Tyrdda to have a baby with someone else if they could have had a baby together?
Idk if anyone has pointed it out yet but the tale of Morrigan'an sounds suspiciously like the tale of cu'chulainn from irish myth
Thanks so much for doing videos about this! This poem absolutely fascinates me I think it's really well constructed and the story is amazing. It's not an easy one to pick apart either, I've been putting it off as well!
Only started watching your videos recently. Instantly subscribed. Really great content :)
Thanks for doing this one! I’ve read through the poem a few times now and I still don’t understand it. Your help is invaluable.
I know this video is a few months old but Morrigan being related to Morrighan'nan is easily backed up by the Chasind and Avvar both being descended from the Alamarri people. Also I always read it as Tyrdda's lover being the lady of the skies
I love how thoroughly you cover topics in your videos! Keep it up :)
THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP!!!
Flemmeth(Mythal) may have just named all her "daughters" Morrigan, or something similar for some reason. So I can see how this could be attached to Mythal incarnations.
What about Yavana?
@@wendolen well clearly Yavana is an exception in several ways. She also isnt a vessel for Mythal, but got her own task
The Leaf Eared Lover is one of the Elven Gods! They were being called to Arlathan.
1:05 - Yes ma'am! (PERFECT STAREDOWN! PERFECT! )
Are we in for some bonus codex readings this weekend?
TRID-a or TYRR-da? (I mane another comment on the codex about this)
Women entangled in lovers' troubles or betrayals tends seems to be a continuous theme in the franchise; human and human, human and elven, I know less about dwarven love tragedies, but this is a thread that I have noticed over and over again in the ancient stories and game lore.
Also I think it is possible Morrighan'nan was the first to carry Mythal's soul and was then lost. Flemeth talks about how Mythal's spirit "clawed and crawled" her way to her. What if because Morrighan'nan did not bear a daughter, Mythal had to take a "long route" via crossroads or the Fade to a willing (and emotionally compatible) host?
The main thing about this story that's always jumped out at me is that it seems to follow a similar pattern to that of both Flemeth & Andraste.
Tinfoil hat time: Could the spirit/wisp of Mythal have manipulated events in order to repeat the same process several times throughout history? What if Tyrdda & Andraste were both failed attempts at taking a host?
If I've gotten the timeline right then this would have been about a millennia *after* her murder, so either way it seems if the Leaf-Eared lover and/or Lady of the Skies of this poem is she then it's not Mythal in her prime, but in a diminished state.
On the other hand it could just be a part of this world's repeating myth-cycle and Mythal being as ancient as she is just tends to crop up in a few in various forms. It's certainly implied in DAII that she's aware of larger events at work and does seem to have a history of involving herself at critical junctures.
Reverend Trigster
Flemeth said "What has this world ever done for me?" "Men used to fight WARS over me."
There are Three Keywords here....MEN.....WARS....WORLD....She speaks of all these things with a negative tone, Something happened for Flemeth to treat the World with disdain, Someones namely Men have screwed her over multiple times, Then she's been in many conflicts at the very least two different conflicts to have said Wars instead of War or fights.
Who are the Men? Could it be Solas and Elgar'nan? How about The Maker and Maferath? Hessarian and Shartan? All of the above?
Then there's WARS she was in multiple ones, What Wars?
Why would she have disdain for the World? It could easily be explained if she's saved it again and again only to see that it was in Vain.
But this second thing of History Repeating itself could also be true and very literal....There is in fact Time Magic someone could of used to make certain events repeat themselves over and over again, But if so why?
Well... I personally don't belive that there is much connection between Morrigan and Morrigan'nan, maybe Flemmeth/Mythal knew her (or knew of her) and named one or many of her daughters after her.
MoonChild or was her. I've got a theory that Aval'var was either a disciple of Mythal, or was Mythal herself, and that during the last night they spent together, she left her essence in her, so that when Tyrdda had a baby with the dwarf king it not only unites the 3 main races but it also allowed Morighan'nan to continue Mythal's legacy.
Really loved this, one of the high points of Inquisition for me.
So basically the golden city is where Elgarnon and the old gods are imprisoned, and they're reaching out to people through their dreams (aka the fade) to get them to open the city; thus releasing them from said prison?
New video new video new video! SO EXCITED!!!!!! Thank you!!!🖤🖤🖤🐺
As I understood it, Morrighan'nan wasn't Tyrdda's child, but her descendant, born centuries after Tyrdda's lifetime.
the story almost has similarities to the maker and andraste thematically. Kinda out there but the idea of loving the "lover" above all is kinda like andraste choosing to be solely the maker's bride.
The lore of Thedas makes my head hurt....
Years later, I arrive with a short and most likely useless contribution: I played DAI in spanish and I looked the quote at 6:50. In spanish says:
El amante habló a Tyrdda y suaves susurros le dedicó.
Los corazones enanos se rasgaron, con simpleza y honor.
The "el amante" means "the lover" but the "el" implies masculine. So... options: a) the intended meaning is that the lover was male. b) bioware instructed the translators to use masculine articles to imply ambiguity (in spanish, is common to see the masculine morphology as neutral) C) the translators did NOT communicate with the devs so they hetero-erased a nice lesbian couple.
The dragon part was because she was actually the Dovahkiin, she... shouted him apart!
Tin foil theory: I think Morrigan herself is specifically very important to Flemeth for some reason. You can see how invested Flemeth/Mythal is in her- not from a loving parental way, but from a selfish standpoint. I'm sure Flemeth knew that Morrigan wouldn't consent to having the "gift" given to her clear back when she sent the Warden to kill her after finding the grimoire. But for some reason, instead of grooming another "daughter" to take her place, she manipulated the scene around her, all the while thinking that she could either convince Morrigan, or that her consent wasn't actually needed like she said towards the end of Inquisition. It seems to me that Mythal has been involved in a great many things, cultivating the perfect lineage that ends up culminating in Morrigan.
Throughout history, we see several important women who are only capable of having daughters, which seems to be a dead giveaway that Flemeth and Mythal were involved. What if she's been going through history, just creating this line so that Morrigan can eventually come to fruition?
I read something once that spoke of Morrighan'nan meaning destiny, but I was unable to find it again. What we do know is that the name Morrigan is synonymous with a great queen, a monster in female form (monster meaning demon or spirit?), power and strength, and death, or victory in battle.
Mythal knew that the battle with Solas was going to happen. She's been grooming the perfect person for millennia in order to stop him.
Lindsay K
But what if it's not a Selfish Reason but a Selfless One? What if the intention is simply to give Thedas a Choice to have a World they want?
She's saved The Warden, Saved Hawke, Helped the Inquisitor, Lets Solas kill her without a fight, I know we shouldn't trust her word but I do kinda believe her when she says it Morrigan's choice.
When we actually look at the deeds she's done we've seen them all being a positive thing for Thedas as a whole.
Flames Of Chaos Could she be telling the truth? Sure. But why wouldn't she start grooming another to take over the spirit of Mythal then? She's known that Morrigan didn't want it since DAO when she sent the Warden to kill her. The spirit of Mythal is important. Why would she just give it over to Solas willingly, without a fight?
I don't believe any of it, quite frankly. And that would be another issue. Solas essentially has the essence of Mythal now. What if Morrigan drank from the well? Does that give him power over her? How about if the Inquisitor did? There are so many angles that could be played with here.
Lindsay K
Didn't you already answer that yourself, It's Morrigan who's groomed/trained to be like that not anyone else.
Solas didn't take Mythal's essence he took the Old God's Soul she took from Keiran, Now if he doesn't exist or if he's just a normal kid then Solas probably took Mythal's Soul then or something else.
"Why would she just give it over to Solas willingly, without a fight?"
1. I'ma guess she loves or did love him at one point and doesn't want to hurt him.
2. He's more powerful then her at this point.
3. Maybe it's some sort of plan, Maybe she's hindered whatever he took from her to buy time for Thedas...We see in Trespasser whatever he took from her hasn't helped him destroy the World yet if ever.
"Does that give him power over her?"
Probably not...Maybe that's what she was specifically grooming/training Morrigan for to resist his power/her power.
The strongest power you can have is the one you know not to use or shouldn't use.
"How about if the Inquisitor did?"
I think Solas no matter what will kill the Inquisitor at some point in 4.....So I already see them being fucked...So their fucked even more if you Drank from the Well.
(I did and will again given I'm not having Flemeth/Mythal in Morrigan's head....So my Inquisitor is fucked. My Hawke is dead. My Warden's good but he only has less then 20 years left to live. I really need to try to keep the 4th one alive!)
So I know this is super late to the party, but the Leaf-Eared lover honestly just... doesn't feel like a "lover" to me. The "You I choose above a crown!" sounds less like a declaration of love and more like the acceptance of something, like in a bargain. Perhaps the leaf-eared lover was the spirit of Mythal? "A soul is not forced upon the unwilling." So she chose to accept the soul of Mythal, with whom she communicated in dreams, in exchange for saving her people from the dragon (possibly a sleeping old god?). In the end, it says she returned to the leaf-eared lover and the two became whole, like how Flemeth says she and Mythal are two parts of a whole. The idea of it being a lover might come from her people not understanding the bargain.
3:03 That timing would actually make a lot of sense if the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones. Tevinter alreay exists, but hasn't started an all-out war with the elves at that point, right? So the Forgotten Ones whisper to humans of different tribes and cultures in dreams etc, become their (Old) Gods and point them at their foes, the Evanuris, in Arlathan (the Golden City).
The City of course is destroyed (or at least becomes pretty much inaccessible) as the veil goes up and is corrupted over the next 1000+ years, until the Magisters enter it to find not Gold, but rot and taint.
amazing! but why no subtitles?
Where is the statue in the thumbnail?
who are the Avvar?
I'm annoyed you kept saying "Tridda", when it's "Tyr-dda"---"Teer-dah".
The way you pronounce her name annoys me...it's spelt TYRDDA you're saying it like its spelt TRYDDA....seems like it should sound like "Teerda" not "tridda"