Want Frippertronics? You NEED One of These Pedals!
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- Looking for a delay pedal or looper that can do "Frippertronics" style looping? I discuss and demo several that I own and have used on this channel. Hope it helps in your ambient guitar pedal decision making process!
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Spotify: goo.gl/LeHwJx
Apple iTunes/Music: itun.es/us/iPqNQ
Bandcamp: chordsoforion.bandcamp.com
Bill's "Frippertronics" pedals (Sweetwater Affiliate links, see disclaimers below):
TC Electronic Flashback Family
sweetwater.sjv.io/g11149
Empress EchoSystem
empresseffects.com/products/e...
Strymon El Capistan
sweetwater.sjv.io/XYYYO4
Strymon Timeline
sweetwater.sjv.io/2111yg
Electro-Harmonix Grand Canyon
sweetwater.sjv.io/annn6M
Strymon Volante
sweetwater.sjv.io/EKKKAK
Line 6 HX-Stomp
sweetwater.sjv.io/baaaQk
Line 6 POD Go
sweetwater.sjv.io/Qyyye3
TC Electronic Ditto X4 Looper
sweetwater.sjv.io/m555oe
PedalTrain Classic PRO pedalboard
Sweetwater: sweetwater.sjv.io/rQQQ2D
EHX Grand Canyon Delay
Sweetwater: sweetwater.sjv.io/annn6M
Amazon: amzn.to/3xcNT6C
Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB
Amazon: amzn.to/2H3yhe7
Sweetwater: sweetwater.sjv.io/anRm7M
iZotope Ozone 9 Advanced
Sweetwater: sweetwater.sjv.io/ZQb17k
Video Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:59 TC Electronic Flashback
2:34 Empress Echosystem
3:56 Strymon El Capistan
5:19 Strymon Timeline
6:27 EHX Grand Canyon
7:52 Strymon Volante
8:53 Line 6 HX Stomp / POD Go
10:28 TC Electronic Ditto X4
Chords of Orion - Ambient guitar is life
Bill Vencil - Guitars
Web: chordsoforion.com
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Sweetwater Affiliate Disclosure:
Chords of Orion is a participant in the Sweetwater Affiliate Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for Chords of Orion to earn fees by linking to sweetwater.com. 
Видеоклипы
Robert Fripp is highly overlooked. Granted Fripp's music is not for the feeble minded with short attention spans. Fripp's ambient music saved my life when i worked nights and could not sleep during the day. Soundscapes helped me relax and block out the noisy neighbors.
The pain I felt when I saw that pedal take a dive, lmao.
"Frippertronics" was a tape delay system pioneered over a decade before Fripp and Eno messed with it. It's based in the same kind of technology that Terry Riley used. He called it a "Time Lag Accumulator" and it's quite evident in his recordings, esp. Rainbow in Curved Air, You're No Good, The Gift and others. IIRC the earliest examples of it were in France in the late 1950s.
Your videos are always inspiring
I just today discovered your channel! I still have my reel to reel with a sound on sound function that I started fooling around with about 50 years ago(yeah I know!) You have inspired me to get back into this
Chords of Orion doing a Frippertronics class in the far distant future "Now what is cool about the Gabriel Deep pedal, is you can adjust the delay up to 3000 years" (ok, maybe a bit deep/philosophical but eternity is eternity, so....) (edit to clarify: If you are going to live forever, there is no rule saying a piece of music can't last 20,000 years)
"it's ok, it landed on something soft".. so the cat is concussed now? Haha :D
No animals were harmed in the making of this video. :-)
I've been a huge fan of Robert Fripp's music ever since I heard his ambient work in King Crimson... especially also the live performances for instance in Japan 2003, the opening. Wonderful and inspiring music. Got me very inspired to do the same. Thanks to your videos I decided to buy the Ditto X4 and I love it!
Great use of the pedal... very musical!
Great video! Love the El Capistan! :)
Fripp content is my favorite COO content!
Very nice video Bill. I like your new (to me at least) format in which individual chapters can easily be accessed or recalled by clicking on the time bar.
Glad you are liking it! I've been trying to add chapters into all of my speaking videos for the last few months. Good to get some positive feedback!
I've used my OG Flashback for close to ten years now (I got it just a few months after it was first released) and it remains my primary long-form looper (I've got a Count To Five to micro looping and all the Other Stuff that thing can do). Few pedals have seen so many different uses as that Flashback in my ever evolving guitar rig. Fantastically versatile, excellent sounds!
I love the Flashback's tone and color, I've got a Flashback2, but I wish it didn't sound so flat/compressed.
Lmao that Eno picture
I tried to find a good one. :-)
@@chordsoforion he looks like a witch I've been laughing all morning
I recently added a Grand Canyon to my board after the Ditto Stereo Looper started to putter out and get glitchy. I am just beginning to explore it! Thanks for another fab vid!
Love the Echosystem, never need another delay again ever, although a really good tape delay is tempting.....
I love fripps equipment from 1993 using such equipment as eventide h3000 tc delay and that lovely swirling chorus from the korg a1 effects procceser the great sound from sylvian fripp first day bringing down the light
I'm still rocking the Boss DD-20, 25 secs of delay. They can be bought cheap still. Can't afford any new gear. That Mel 9 sounded amazing with the Ditto.
Nothing wrong with the DD-20!!
Other devices you might check out for this purposes are Montreal Assembly Count To 5, Pladask Elektrisk Bakfram/Baklengs, Looperlative LP1 and LP2, EHX 1440. Also thank you for the Timeline trick: super cool indeed!
Nice to see Ian’s working on an ambient version release of ‘Aqualung’
As someone who almost exclusively uses a Line 6 HD500x, thanks a lot for the heads up in using the looper to create "Frippertronics", and creating designated patches for same. I'll get to work getting lost in the layers. Thanks for the tip, Bill!
Just looked at the manual, and the overdub level is on page 8-5:
"Overdub - Use Multi-function Knob 2 to determine the volume of your loop in Overdub mode. For example, if your Overdub Level is set to 90%, each time your loop begins a new overdub its volume will be reduced by 10%, sounding quieter and quieter with each overdub pass."
Bingo!!!
@@chordsoforion Brilliant. I'll give that a try. Thanks again brother.
Hey, Bill. Always enjoy your channel.
I know it's not sexy to talk about out of production gear (and no one is going to pay for a demo...) but the Boss DD-20 (old dual pedal housing) will give a delay time of up to 23 seconds. That is Frippertronics heaven! Has analog, tape, digital options. Also does trails so one might decide in the middle of a Fripp-out to up the feedback to (virtual) infinity (I think it eventually degrades...), hit bypass and improvise over a frozen loop...until you get bored and go back to the evolving Frippertronics thing. Eventually they'll have "vintage" prices, but for now still affordable.
Thanks for the ongoing inspiration and motivation.
@AdrianFripp YES !! I wanted to mention it. I use the DD20 since 2004 to do this sort of things, and use it in all my bnds and solo projects, in particular the warp mode should be mentioned since you just have to hold on the pedal to put the feedback up and replay everything that is in your delay, and superpose new things. I tried nearly all loopers but I always went back to that rudimentary intuitive mode. I got it modded so that a little switch allows me to hold on the delay memory without having the continuously hold on my foot on the pedal.
Fripp & Eno, No Pussyfooting. Bought that album from the discount rack back in the day. I have never gotten tired of it.
It's a good one!
It was Eno’s album Discreet Music where Frippertronics first appeared. Check it out on a long road trip
The helix's standard digital delay but more importantly the vintage delay go to 8 seconds of time. The reverse to 4. Honestly the main looper plus a long vintage delay looper set with some mild degradation and a reverse loop of 4 seconds have been my main loopers for years as it is a simple. I bring a helix to a gig with a decent volume pedal and it does everything i need it to do.
I always have to stop myself buying more pedals after watching your, always excellent, presentations. I'm loving 'The Elements Shall Melt...' I had to look up the reference. Having taught Ancient Philosophy over many years it's interesting to see the Greeks picture of the world (most championed one or other element as master of the others) being challenged in this way.
Are you referring to the possibilities of what Peter is referring to in the Scripture passage with the word στοιχεῖον (actual 4 elements, the physical world, the philosophies of humans)?
@@chordsoforion I can't be sure. There's a good deal of difference between Attic Greek and that of the NT. Philosophers such as Anaximander and Anaximenes regarded the world as given to us, but in naturalistic terms. The default position, at least until Plato, was that our task, as humans, was to discover the laws of our universe. (This includes the formal models suggested by the Pythagorean school). The task was always one of discovery -- not invention. This model of inquiry continued into the Medieval period -- a time in which the base assumption was that observed phenomena would be explained in terms that were consistent with the truth revealed in the Bible. This view was heavily influenced by the view that revealed truth and scientific truth (but not in our modern sense) must ultimately be compatible. God wouldn't have confused us at a foundational level. It's our confusion.
Interesting points for sure. In any case, there's no confusion in Peter's inspired writing. Everything now existing, every philosophical framework - all will be destroyed at the second coming of Jesus (the day of the Lord as Peter calls it). In fact, each one of us has a personal Day of the Lord coming (our deaths), in which all the philosophies of this world come to naught.
I'm calling you out on staging that drop!
Shhhhh… 😎
Boss DD 500 and RV 500 are my favorite Frippertronics pedals. They both have a ten second max delay time (there are some exclusions on the DD), they both include the RE 201, and the DD has many more delays while the RV has many types of reverb. Both pedals can be customized to an astounding degree, they both have hold/freeze functions, the DD has a looper...they can do Frippertronics and most other things too! Tremolo, phasing, fuzz, tape tone...they're miracle boxes!
Bill, I know you had them and used them for demos, but I'm surprised that you rarely use them.
Good choice for sure - and you are right - I need to get out the DD-500 and use it more often.
@@chordsoforion I'm using it right now on the remix of your song. I love those pedals but too often I spend too much time fitzing with the settings and not enough time playing.
I have RV500, and I love it to death. I want to get the DD-500 later.
Indeed, it is super easy to get distracted with sound design and fiddling with your awesome pedals' settings, but try to lea e that for when you are done composing/rehearsing or when you hit a creative block or need a short break from playing.
I own three of the pedals on your board - Triple Delay, Ditto x4 and Grand Canyon, so I guess I'm on the right track! 😉
Excellent!
Would love a demo on setting up the TC Plethora X5 for Frippertronics. Multiple delays, reverb, modulation etc. Thanks, all the best, keep up the great work.
Here ya go! ruclips.net/video/iSjw6nHm_EY/видео.html
@@chordsoforion How did I miss that? So sorry, thank you Bill. Legend.
Let The Power Fall has a delay time of somewhere between 4 and 5 seconds. I agree, however, that somewhat longer is better.
Very nice video as usual. Very informative. I would like to know - on top of it all - which ones of these pedals really do have a freeze-hold capability? Whenever the cobwebs of decaying notes and long delays has created an ambient enough sound to jam over, without putting any new signal into it, I want to hold it with just a click on the footswitch. Most manuals doesn't contain such information at all, and they don't tell you that "this is not possible".
The Boss DD-500s are now updated with firmware that you can do a hold (infinite repeat) on, regardless of how long or short the delay is, and the Echoplex/Binson tape engines do have 10 seconds delay. The thing is with dd-500 and it's pararell/series A/B mode is that you can have one side at 10 seconds delay, and the other side at 110 ms delay which is - purist - Frippertronics. The 100 ms delay with just one repeat comes from that when Fripp mixed 2 Revox tape machines, he had to produce a direct sound too, and the recording head of tape recorder was placed (by design) at a distance from the playback head in the same recorder. That gap distance produced a 110 ms short slapback delay just heard once, and not in the subsequent 10 second delays. The 10 second delays and "frippertronics" did not contain the 110 ms short delay repeated back. When he turned the tape over, and played it back again, just the 10 seconds (if it ever went that long) was played back without the 110 ms repeat. And he improvised over it. To improvise live over it, he had a footswitch that disconnected the input to the tape via a mixer, so he could play over it for a while, before the repeats became too faint, and he had to switch back in, to produce additional drone notes and loops.
An observation by/of the King Crimson: Robert Fripp shifted over to "Soundscapes" instead of "Frippertronics" once the digital racks of long delay times became available/affordable. Using mostly Eventides and Lexicons hooked up to produce minutes long delay loops it was all digital and pristine delays, and pitch shifting and whatnot. No tape modelling whatsoever. To my knowledge he has never used these units, or newer units that models old tape Frippertronics, to produce or recreate the "vintage steampunk" Frippertronics tapes of his past. He just carries on with the new digital stuff without sound degradation after each repeat. Crystal clear, no warble, no wow and flutter. Keep that in mind...
- - - - - - - - - -
So again, to get real bona fide, hard core, kosher Frippertronics, which ones of these units produces the independent and individual 110 ms slapback echo, plus the > 6 second delay loop AND the possibility to hold it through a infinite repeat switch?
I use boss dd3 -> ehx freeze -> tc electronic flashback X4 -> tc electronic Ditto X4 for frippertronics. Yet enough for me. Ditto X4 makes me x4 of my possibilities))))
Nice!!!
I love the EHX Grand Canyon and the Ditto X4. I have discovered a cool small footprint for frippertronics: that is the BOSS DD-8.
Nice!!
Thinking about pulling the trigger on the DD-8, how's your experience with it been? Both for regular delay use and Frippertronics?
@@chubbypapaya it’s good 👍🏾. The workflow is different. Just takes getting used to.
came for the pedals, stayed for the flute
Thanks! That was a fun experiment.
Love your videos. Will check out your video on the Timeline…just learning this pedal! Are you going to try out the Headrush MX5?
I am planning on getting one. I want to compare it with my full size HR Pedalboard - and compare it to the POD Go.
@@chordsoforion Looking forward to your review!
have you ever looked into the Echoplex Digitsl Pro? It was the first, and it is easily the most advanced despite it's age.
Great stuff!
What is the last pedal you adjusted that made the signal sound like a voice? That sounded great!
I think it's an EHX Mel 9
In addition to the El Capistan, my brother's Volante, and an Akai Headrush E2, I have 3 each Boss DD-20 GigaDelays with up to 23 seconds of delay. The LCD delay display shows thousandths of a second up to 10 seconds, then goes to hundredths. I run one Gigadelay at a short delay of say 0.375 (dotted 8th note) at 120BPM, for example, into another Gigadelay at 16 or 8 seconds depending how long you want the overall loop to be, which will create a perfect loop if played to a click track. I worked out the math for all the delays at tempos from 60 BPM to 164BPM.Glad I saved the spreadsheet for that...
The Boss DD-20 Giga Delay is STILL one of the most under-appreciated delay pedals out there. I used two of them in much the same way you describe... and yeah, the math side gets interesting!
Spreadsheet? Just use a calculator: 60000/bpm or ms value
@@guitaristssuck8979 why do the math when I have it printed out, ready to dial in at that moment for whatever note value I want for short and long delay times up to 23 seconds...calculator, smh...eventually, I memorize most used BPM times anyway...
@@MatthewSwasta why going to search for it on the spreadsheet if it takes less to use the calculator? 😜
@@dennismosercreativearts always make sure the delay mode is set to standard as opposed to analog to prevent degradation of the loop, unless that's what you're looking for...I made that mistake during a performance once...blah.
Hi Bill, I’m looking for a looper to make Frippertronics style drones. I’m currently considering the infinity 2, would you recommended it ?
Bill, with an emphasis on software controlled from foot pedal(s) / knob(s), would you kindly review iPad Pro Apps & techniques to create Frippertronics. Thanks in advance!
Will to do some research on that to see what I can come up with.
TC Ditto x4 . . . I own backups of the backups. For doing multi instrumental, real time looping nothing comes close. A third channel would be nice. . . . Oh yeah, apparently they are good for Frippertronics!!!
Supposedly Terry Riley and a recording engineer accidently invented this tape loop delay in the early 70s. You can hear it on "Persian Surgery Dervishes" and his other music from the era, he doesnt hold claim to the technique tho and doesnt mind Fripp claiming ownership. I love both those guys so whatever lol
❤
Ouch my beloved Echosystem! 😀
Me too I used Ditto x4 extensively for frippertronics looping style lately. But I also love my Gibson EDP+ for that kind of things and looping in general.
Currently I’m in love with the Glou-Glou FX Loupè which is a kind of an extended modern version of EDP in a pedal format. Man, this device is really mind blowing
EDP is certainly a classic. The Loupe looks very interesting indeed.
@@chordsoforion I’ve bought it in June and I just started to scratch the surface. I’m very happy of this pedal
Hey Bill, love your vids and Im wondering if you have any advice about powering pedals when doing outdoors sessions in remote locations?
Hey Emil! I have used 2 techniques for outdoors playing - 1) use pedals that can take a battery (such as the BOSS DD-500), and 2) if I am close enough to my car, I run a long extension cord from its AC power outlet and run my pedalboard as usual.
@@chordsoforion Thanks Bill, that's good to know. I was thinking of using an inverter from a car battery to run pedals such as the EHX Hazarai but Im also looking at using a usb power pack with voltage step- up cable converters as a lightweight alternative. Some experiments are in order I reckon 👍
@@oldmanthompson Pedaltrain made several rechargeable pedalboard power supplies. You might find a used Volto somewhere.
@@junk0126 Thanks man, I'll have a look around and see what I can find.
Where in your effects chain do you place the looper? At the front, next to your guitar? In the amplifier effects loop? Where is best?
I don't use amps anymore, but if I did, the looper would be in. the effects loop . Here's a video I did on looper placement a while ago: ruclips.net/video/Ub4Xs6i9RBo/видео.html
What about the Strymon DIG? Have your used a JamMan SOLO XT with its 10 minute looping time? What are you thoughts?
the DIG is a fabulous delay pedal, but not great for Frippertronics as it is limited to a 3.2 second delay time. As far as the JamMan goes, can you set it to decay loop layers? If so, then it could work. If not, then no.
So Bill, to someone starting out would you recommend getting all those individual pedals or instead one of the multi effects like the Pod etc., which presumably would take less space and cost less?
If you have a pedalboard already and are committed to using it, then I would suggest getting one pedal. If you are starting from scratch and are looking at multi-fx units anyway, then def consider the Line 6 stuff.
Multi-stomps sure are convenient, but best sounds and tweakability come from inidividual effect pedals. 😈
There’s an old Frippertronics VST - Elottronix XL.
Yep. I used it for a bit - but it was never available for MacOS...
Hey Bill, which is the video you used as a demo for the El Capistan? I've never seen you play recorder before.
ruclips.net/video/ocg7wOPtjJM/видео.html
@@chordsoforion I have a recorder lying around as well. Maybe I should go pick it up too 🙂
On occasion I can hear shades of Steven Hacket , early Genesis and King Crimson in your mix. Am I wrong?
Nope. Both Steve Hackett and Robert Fripp made it into my "10 Guitarists that Changed My Life" video: ruclips.net/video/nW9VvHeL0JQ/видео.html
Have you tried the Chase Bliss Blooper? Seems like it would work for this. Curious what your opinion on the Blooper is.
I’m not Bill but I have spent many hours enjoying Bloopertronics
Not yet, but I am sure it would be a great pedal to use.
@@chordsoforion would make for a good video!
The BOSS DD-20 Digital Delay offers up to 23 seconds of delay time.
Pigtronix Infinity 2 is showed at the beginning but no longer exists in the video after… Is there a reason why ? Thank you.
I actually did cut that out and some other pedal that can do "Frippertronics", as the video was getting way too long.
@@chordsoforion Ok. Thank you very much. I saw your video about the Infinity 2, and I guess I will buy one. It seems it allows to do 2 frippertronics with 2 different lengths, one by one… Hope it could. Merry Xmas Bill !!!
Would you recommend the Echo Empress over the El Capistan? Or, both!
I am always gonna go for both! :-) That being said, I think it comes down to what you are looking for. If you want a super cool dedicated tape delay style pedal, then the El Cap. If you want something more versatile that still can do an 8 second delay and dual delay types, then the Empress.
@@chordsoforion Thanks, Bill! So appreciated !
What was that capo set up at the end?!
I've got a tutorial on the topic. Check out about halfway through the vid: ruclips.net/video/1KtT1ICCO_I/видео.html
The Echosystem falling was like watching a scene from a horror movie.
I know - but all's well that ends well.
@@chordsoforion Empress makes a sturdy pedal for a reason. I've got the Echosystem, Reverb, and Fuzz on my board; might be my favorite builder.
Didn’t the oak ridge boys use one of those elbows like yours decades ago. I remember one band I saw using one, but back then I had no idea what it was. And I don’t remember which band. I do remember there were a lot of guitarist on stage.
The Ebow goes way back. Greg Heet had the original up and running in 1969 and got it to market in the mid-seventies. The first I remember hearing it was on Genesis' "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" album and in "Don't Fear The Reaper" by Blue Oyster Cult.
It does indeed go way back. I got my first EBow in 1979 or so. :-)
Have the timeline, will try!
Great! Here's a video tutorial I did a couple of years ago showing how to set up the Timeline: ruclips.net/video/AMcthygL6M0/видео.html
@@chordsoforion Thank you!!!
I'm considering ordering a Soma Cosmos. Thoughts?
The price tag... :-) It does look pretty cool!
@@chordsoforion yeah price is steep and availability might be an issue. I had a Volante and sold it. The cosmos and its random and anti-looper qualities might be better for ambient soundscapes and Eno/Fripp techniques.
which ones can use batteries?
(I'm a busker)
One of the ones that I could not get to in the video is also great and runs on batteries: BOSS DD-500.
The older Boss DD-20 can do up to 23 seconds delay (more than the DD-500) and it runs on batteries too!
Bill...is it true that you can lead a guitar player to pedals, but you can't make him think. God bless my wayward son!
Don't know what time zone you're in, but I spat my coffee out laughing at your comment. Icing on the cake to this great start to my Saturday haha.
No Boss pedals?????
I could have added the BOSS DD-500. It has a 10 second delay available and works very well for Frippertronics.
BOSS is boss. 😆
Well I don't have a Frippertronics pedal..... yet!
Did you really kiss that Triple Delay? Aw, who am I kidding, I would too. : D
The Triple Delay is worth many kisses. :-)
@@chordsoforion Does the Triple Delay have the same crystalline and musical tone of the Flashback2? It seems to sound muddier in youtube vids, otherwise I would have gotten one already. I'm only now remembering about it. I love the Flashback2's sound, despite the pedal's limitations.
Where is the cash tree you use to buy all these expensive gadgets?
I have a day job to support my family and me, and my "music money" comes from the revenue I earn as Chords of Orion.
Of course the empress pedal had to fall off the board
Horrifying intro.
Why thank you!!